holysmokes!

[holysmokes]

Hey there, I am in the process of leaving the local church and am so glad to have found this safe space. My spouse and I were not church kids but still got roped in20 plus years ago. I felt like I lost my spunky self and had to subdue and conform. I always felt uneasy with the terms about Christianity and how we were basically it. I had a big aha moment when I posted in a church group about discovering some lovely Christian music I had discovered and wanted to share. I asked testing the waters if anyone had other offerings on music they liked. Nothing- 1200 members and nothing. Lots of veils taken away today folks. Thanks for having me.

[awareness]

And you are welcome. I'm excited to have you. I left long ago, when the apostle, oracle, and Minister of the Age, began to be pushed. I disagreed, and basically got excommunicated. Thank God !!!!!!

And thank God for your aha moment. After 20 years you've got some work to do. Time to start deprogramming. Time to think for yourself. I'm with you bro ... you and your wife.

[countmeworthy]

CONGRATS!
Remember:
God has not given us the spirit of fear; but (God has given us the Spirit) of Power, and of Love, and of a Sound Mind.


LC instills fear of leaving its' system. The longer people are in the LSM/LC the less they depend on the Spirit of Power and the Spirit of Love... their sound mind goes dorment too.

"COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!"

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by holysmokes

Hey there, I am in the process of leaving the local church and am so glad to have found this safe space. My spouse and I were not church kids but still got roped in20 plus years ago. I felt like I lost my spunky self and had to subdue and conform. I always felt uneasy with the terms about Christianity and how we were basically it. I had a big aha moment when I posted in a church group about discovering some lovely Christian music I had discovered and wanted to share. I asked testing the waters if anyone had other offerings on music they liked. Nothing- 1200 members and nothing. Lots of veils taken away today folks. Thanks for having me.

1200 members - must have been a big church!

I'm really excited for you and hope that the Lord blesses you as you leave this group (as He has my family). Recently, there have been a lack of posts celebrating people leaving the Church of Witness Lee and pursuing their Lord and Savior Jesus! I hope that you can share more of your story and warn others about this group.

I know there may be a difficult journey ahead - but from my personal experience - things are much brighter - leave the junk behind, pursue the messiness of community, the piercing truth of scripture, the calming direction of the Holy Spirit, and the wonderful love and GRACE found in Jesus.

I'm so thankful that the Lord led me away from this group - I can't imagine the regret I would have X number of years down the road (when the Lord lifted me up) if my children were forced to attend such a group.

“Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!”

[LifeGoesOn]

Originally Posted by holysmokes

Hey there, I am in the process of leaving the local church and am so glad to have found this safe space. My spouse and I were not church kids but still got roped in20 plus years ago. I felt like I lost my spunky self and had to subdue and conform. I always felt uneasy with the terms about Christianity and how we were basically it. I had a big aha moment when I posted in a church group about discovering some lovely Christian music I had discovered and wanted to share. I asked testing the waters if anyone had other offerings on music they liked. Nothing- 1200 members and nothing. Lots of veils taken away today folks. Thanks for having me.

We've got your back! And here's a song I've enjoyed for a while now.



In Over My Head - Jenn Johnson

https://youtu.be/qv3-TDdD1pM

[aron]

Originally Posted by holysmokes

I had a big aha moment when I posted in a church group about discovering some lovely Christian music I had discovered and wanted to share. I asked testing the waters if anyone had other offerings on music they liked. Nothing- 1200 members and nothing. Lots of veils taken away today folks. Thanks for having me.

I had a similar aha experience. I was happily meeting with the LC, went to a church meeting there, was having animated fellowship afterward with a local church elder and one of the members, who was a good friend of mine.

I mentioned something that I had enjoyed tremendously. It was a real vison from the Lord, and it was right there in God's word.

The elder stopped talking and sat there, looking straight ahead, and the other brother looked at the elder and froze. So we all sat there for I don't know how long. I think the elder was stuck. He couldn't say what I had seen was wrong. Because there it was. But you see, Witness Lee hadn't covered this, evidently, so he couldn't wave the ministry. So he just shut down. He simply couldn't acknowledge my speaking. His program didn't cover this. And the other brother shut down as well.

That really woke me up. If you get any life or light in the word, they don't care. They just want the ministry; the so-called interpreted word. Well, I was there, interpreting the word, and they couldn't say that I was off. But I wasn't the "ministry" so they just froze me out.

Kinda made it clear for me.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

I had a similar aha experience. I was happily meeting with the LC, went to a church meeting there, was having animated fellowship afterward with a local church elder and one of the members, who was a good friend of mine.

I mentioned something that I had enjoyed tremendously. It was a real vision from the Lord, and it was right there in God's word.

The elder stopped talking and sat there, looking straight ahead, and the other brother looked at the elder and froze. So we all sat there for I don't know how long. I think the elder was stuck. He couldn't say what I had seen was wrong. Because there it was. But you see, Witness Lee hadn't covered this, evidently, so he couldn't wave the ministry. So he just shut down. He simply couldn't acknowledge my speaking. His program didn't cover this. And the other brother shut down as well.

That really woke me up. If you get any life or light in the word, they don't care. They just want the ministry; the so-called interpreted word. Well, I was there, interpreting the word, and they couldn't say that I was off. But I wasn't the "ministry" so they just froze me out.

Kinda made it clear for me.

That's funny.

Reminds me of that old 60's sci-fi TV series called Lost In Space, where the robot gets stumped and says, "Does not compute, Does not compute, ..."

I liked that show! Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBAijg5Betw

[LifeGoesOn]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's funny.

Reminds me of that old 60's sci-fi TV series called Lost In Space, where the robot gets stumped and says, "Does not compute, Does not compute, ..."

I liked that show! Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBAijg5Betw

[Drake]

aron > " That really woke me up. If you get any life or light in the word, they don't care. They just want the ministry; the so-called interpreted word. Well, I was there, interpreting the word, and they couldn't say that I was off. But I wasn't the "ministry" so they just froze me out."

There could be many reasons for not responding to you. I have been in many similar circumstances over the years both in my sharing in the sharing of others:

For instance, perhaps:

- You were incoherent, unclear, or babbled
- Your attitude was amiss, or you had a haughty spirit
- You really were off the main topic
- Your tendencies were already understood so there was a barrier there
- The timing was wrong
- The place was wrong
- The audience was wrong
- They had already heard it before and discounted it
- Your interpretation was private
- You said it to divide or drive a wedge
- Your speaking lacked edifying
- You didn't know what you were talking about

....To name a few alternative explanations. Any of those could have solicited the same response you got. I wasn't there so I don't know. But the notion that you were just exercising your God-given duty, interpreting the word and so forth was probably not the impression they got. I didn't know you then but the little I've known you here in this forum leads me to believe that you most likely conveyed some of the impressions above.

In any case, Aron, you are happy now and free to share the light and life you get from the Word to a thankful and receptive audience.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by LifeGoesOn

LifeGoesOn how do you post videos instead of just links to videos?

[aron]

Drake, all the above of course are indeed possible. But if I was wrong they should have pointed out my error. LC'ers are usually pretty clear on doctrine. Instead I got silence, as two chatty brothers suddenly began earnestly examining the blank space in front of them.

And they couldn't say that I was just in my mind, as I was in "the enjoyment." But I wasnt enjoying the ministry so . . .verboten.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Drake

aron > " That really woke me up. If you get any life or light in the word, they don't care. They just want the ministry; the so-called interpreted word. Well, I was there, interpreting the word, and they couldn't say that I was off. But I wasn't the "ministry" so they just froze me out."

There could be many reasons for not responding to you. I have been in many similar circumstances over the years both in my sharing in the sharing of others:

For instance, perhaps:

- You were incoherent, unclear, or babbled
- Your attitude was amiss, or you had a haughty spirit
- You really were off the main topic
- Your tendencies were already understood so there was a barrier there
- The timing was wrong
- The place was wrong
- The audience was wrong
- They had already heard it before and discounted it
- Your interpretation was private
- You said it to divide or drive a wedge
- Your speaking lacked edifying
- You didn't know what you were talking about

....To name a few alternative explanations. Any of those could have solicited the same response you got. I wasn't there so I don't know. But the notion that you were just exercising your God-given duty, interpreting the word and so forth was probably not the impression they got. I didn't know you then but the little I've known you here in this forum leads me to believe that you most likely conveyed some of the impressions above.

In any case, Aron, you are happy now and free to share the light and life you get from the Word to a thankful and receptive audience.

Drake

Always a helpful and uplifting word from Drake! Seems like a reflection of Witness Lee. Witness Lee in life and nature, but not actually Witness Lee.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by holysmokes

Hey there, I am in the process of leaving the local church and am so glad to have found this safe space. My spouse and I were not church kids but still got roped in20 plus years ago. I felt like I lost my spunky self and had to subdue and conform. I always felt uneasy with the terms about Christianity and how we were basically it. I had a big aha moment when I posted in a church group about discovering some lovely Christian music I had discovered and wanted to share. I asked testing the waters if anyone had other offerings on music they liked. Nothing- 1200 members and nothing. Lots of veils taken away today folks. Thanks for having me.

Welcome, holysmokes. This is a safe place but, as you see, it may get a little loopy from time to time.

Nell

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Nell

Welcome, holysmokes. This is a safe place but, as you see, it may get a little loopy from time to time.

Nell

Nell is right. After coming out of the LC learning to have some fun is important. Also important is to develop a healthy sense of humor. Laughter is indeed a good medicine. If you can laugh at yourself then you know you're truly getting free from why you joined in the first place, and why you stayed.

Luke 6:21b - God will bless you people who are crying. You will laugh!-CEV

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

Drake, all the above of course are indeed possible. But if I was wrong they should have pointed out my error..

Aron,

A blank stare can be an effective way of pointing out an error. It has the added benefit of the unstated suggestion to "go consider before the Lord".

Besides, you needed no man to point it out what was wrong in that moment.

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

Aron,
, you needed no man to point it out what was wrong in that moment.

Drake

What was wrong at that moment was that I was no longer enjoying the ministry but another source - the Bible. Thus the awkwardness. I had committed a social faux pas in the LC by not seeking first the mediatory influence of either Nee or Lee.

To the first post, by our new member - why is it that any Christian music pre-Nee can be held as part of our (LC) "goodly heritage"; but after Nee began to write hymns they were "degraded Christianity" and got rejected without consideration? Does this not yell, loudly, "Beware! Personality cult approaching!"??

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

......why is it that any Christian music pre-Nee can be held as part of our (LC) "goodly heritage"; but after Nee began to write hymns they were "degraded Christianity" and got rejected without consideration?

Aron,

Anyone who has spent even a little time in the Lords Recovery knows that thousands of songs have been written post Nee, sung in meetings, recorded and distributed in cassettes and CDs, and now posted on the internet, and were a spontaneous overflow from the life, enjoyment, and light being experienced by the members. Those songs, in any number of "supplements" are a distinguishing hallmark of the Lords Recovery. Probably most ex-members here have favorites they still sing or hum and perhaps still chuckle over.

No where else will you find a such a collection or a practice and a true manifestation of "each one has" in song.

Drake

[LifeGoesOn]

Originally Posted by Drake

Aron,

A blank stare can be an effective way of pointing out an error. It has the added benefit of the unstated suggestion to "go consider before the Lord".

Besides, you needed no man to point it out what was wrong in that moment.

Drake

Bro, you've got to break your conditioning.

[LifeGoesOn]

The LC is a wicked religious system that is controlled by a religious spirit/principality. It is not just "off" and "cult-like", but rather, it is a religious CULT. It is time to call it as it is and carry out real spiritual warfare against it.

Most members (me being one for decades) are brainwashed and under the influence of religious spirits. I love the members of the Body (you too Drake). I want to see the members of the LC set FREE! I try to pray this every day. My immediate family is behind enemy lines still. I know that God is going to free them from TLR®.

[Drake]

-1 and -2

LifeGoesOn,

You are now engaging in the "fallacy of assertion". Twice over. You are neither advancing the argument nor proving anything with your unproven assertions but rather only demonstrating your belief in the assertion that Drake is brainwashed.

In an ironic twist "An inability to provide anything other than an argument by assertion may be the result of brainwashing, basing ones belief on blind faith or ignorance as to what forms a proper argument." RationalWiki

If you believe I am brainwashed you will need to do more than just assert it or offer flashy clips. Give it your best shot, brother.

Drake

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by holysmokes

Hey there, I am in the process of leaving the local church and am so glad to have found this safe space. My spouse and I were not church kids but still got roped in 20 plus years ago. I felt like I lost my spunky self and had to subdue and conform. I always felt uneasy with the terms about Christianity and how we were basically it. I had a big aha moment when I posted in a church group about discovering some lovely Christian music I had discovered and wanted to share. I asked testing the waters if anyone had other offerings on music they liked. Nothing- 1200 members and nothing. Lots of veils taken away today folks. Thanks for having me.

Welcome to LocalChurchDiscussions.Com holysmokes! Great handle/UserName!

Consider this place as a bowl of granola....what ain't fruits and nuts are flakes. Seriously though, I really appreciate your testimony here and hope that when you get a chance, you can expound/expand upon this. I'm very curious about this "church group" posting you speak about. Is it a Local Church/LSM website of some sort? Inquiring minds want to know!

Again, welcome to LCD and hope to hear a lot from you in the coming days.
-

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Aron,

Anyone who has spent even a little time in the Lords Recovery knows that thousands of songs have been written post Nee, sung in meetings, recorded and distributed in cassettes and CDs, and now posted on the internet, and were a spontaneous overflow from the life, enjoyment, and light being experienced by the members. Those songs, in any number of "supplements" are a distinguishing hallmark of the Lords Recovery. Probably most ex-members here have favorites they still sing or hum and perhaps still chuckle over.

No where else will you find a such a collection or a practice and a true manifestation of "each one has" in song.

Drake

I kept the supplements from back in my day for a long time. They were made up of popular tunes with new words put to them. They were full of copyright violations thru and thru.

Honest churches pay the royalties that are due, by law.

[LifeGoesOn]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1 and -2

LifeGoesOn,

You are now engaging in the "fallacy of assertion". Twice over. You are neither advancing the argument nor proving anything with your unproven assertions but rather only demonstrating your belief in the assertion that Drake is brainwashed.

In an ironic twist "An inability to provide anything other than an argument by assertion may be the result of brainwashing, basing ones belief on blind faith or ignorance as to what forms a proper argument." RationalWiki

If you believe I am brainwashed you will need to do more than just assert it or offer flashy clips. Give it your best shot, brother.

Drake

Bro,

I love ya and want to see you set free. It's not my job to make you see anything. In fact, I can't make you do or see anything. The Holy Spirit can though, and I'm praying for that. . Hey, you're still here, so I think something good is taking place (Holy Ghost interaction).

I am NOT against you or any other LC member. We are all members of the same Body.

I was brainwashed and parroted the same mindless LSM lingo and phrases and I emulated the LSM promoted behavior. I even told my wife that her best friend (former full-timer) was "poisoned" once she "left the flow" and "took another way". The irony was that I spiritually dead and yet, full of "high peak truths". The best part is that our friend is ON FIRE for the Lord and seeing lives changed!

Ask the Holy Spirit to set you free! Come join us!

[UntoHim]

Brothers and sisters, let's let our new friend holysmokes get a word in edgewise. This is the Introductions and Testimonies thread...let's let him guide the course of this one, OK?
-

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by LifeGoesOn

The Holy Spirit can though, and I'm praying for that. .

Yes! May our brother Drake know come to know the Truth!

Let Jesus reign in all things.

[Drake]

Per the moderator's request I am politely standing down from further comment until holysmokes lights up... so to speak

Drake

[UntoHim]

Thank you brother Drake...hopefully everyone else will follow suit and not go afowl of my request...
=

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1 and -2

LifeGoesOn,

You are now engaging in the "fallacy of assertion". Twice over. You are neither advancing the argument nor proving anything with your unproven assertions but rather only demonstrating your belief in the assertion that Drake is brainwashed.

In an ironic twist "An inability to provide anything other than an argument by assertion may be the result of brainwashing, basing ones belief on blind faith or ignorance as to what forms a proper argument." RationalWiki

If you believe I am brainwashed you will need to do more than just assert it or offer flashy clips. Give it your best shot, brother.

Drake

I have been set free.

[Kevin]

[LifeGoesOn]

[aron]

LGO, welcome to the real world. The one where your thoghts and feelings belong to you.

[LifeGoesOn]

Originally Posted by aron

LGO, welcome to the real world. The one where your thoghts and feelings belong to you.

[aron]

"Our soul is escaped as a bird/ from the snare of the fowler/ the snare is broken/ and we are escaped" Psalm 124:7

The fowler offers 'food' to the birds. A so-called supply. But the bird doesn't see the net, the snare, until it is too late.

How blessed to get free.

[LifeGoesOn]

Originally Posted by aron

"Our soul is escaped as a bird/ from the snare of the fowler/ the snare is broken/ and we are escaped" Psalm 124:7

The fowler offers 'food' to the birds. A so-called supply. But the bird doesn't see the net, the snare, until it is too late.

How blessed to get free.

[UntoHim]

Ok guys, let's let holysmokes get his/her thread back. Please, no more posts until holysmokes has a chance to catch up. Thanks

-

[LifeGoesOn]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Ok guys, let's let holysmokes get his/her thread back. Please, no more posts until holysmokes has a chance to catch up. Thanks

-

[holysmokes]

I see there has been a lot of chatter in response to my introduction about my interactions and lack thereof to my enquirers about Christian music to listen to. I did get a couple of responses guiding me to ministry links. It is a FB group for LC moms. Any suggestions from you would be great. I don't like drama, so please don't bash each other on this thread. I don't want to bash LC members but it would be nice to find people who feel the local church is not what they thought it was. Lots for me to process right now.

[LifeGoesOn]

Originally Posted by holysmokes

I see there has been a lot of chatter in response to my introduction about my interactions and lack thereof to my enquirers about Christian music to listen to. I did get a couple of responses guiding me to ministry links. It is a FB group for LC moms. Any suggestions from you would be great. I don't like drama, so please don't bash each other on this thread. I don't want to bash LC members but it would be nice to find people who feel the local church is not what they thought it was. Lots for me to process right now.