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Old 07-30-2017, 10:46 AM   #1
eDh22
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Default Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

I really appreciate the welcome, and the insight I've received on this board after posting my story about leaving the "Lord's Recovery". In the last month, I've reached out to some "safe" people in my life with LSM ties to hear their stories, briefly spoke with a therapist on the topic, and read several books about young women who grew up in / joined high demand Christian groups, left, and how they moved forward with their lives. I also visited the "standard" church down the street to get a glimpse of "normal Christianity".

Which has brought me to the following questions that I've been asking myself. I would love to hear your answers:

1. What do you most regret about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" group?

2. What real gains in your life did you experience during your time in the "Lord's Recovery"?

3. How have you / are you leveraging your regrets about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" so that these experiences can be gain to you now?

4. Forgiveness - have you reached out in person to ask forgiveness of those you may have injured during your time in the "Lord's Recovery" (family, etc)? How have you dealt with your relationships with people who shepherded you, particularly with what you feel now was poor counsel, in the "Lord's Recovery"?

5. Do you think there was anything in the doctrine or practice that particularly attracted you to the "Lord's Recovery" or do you think you could have been similarly attracted to any high-demand Christian group?

6. What tools have you found most useful in "recovering from the Lord's Recovery?" Specific books? Counseling? Blogging? Specific relationships?
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Old 07-30-2017, 11:26 AM   #2
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Quote:
1. What do you most regret about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" group?
That I 'chose' the church over Christ and chose the church over taking care of my parents when they were ill and needed me most. I don't blame the church though. I was an immature young Christian. Sure I was under the LC bondage but I was also a young believer. My parents are with the Lord as is my brother. Praise HIM.

Quote:
2. What real gains in your life did you experience during your time in the "Lord's Recovery"?
Speaking the Word into me. In turn the Holy Spirit reveals to me His Word. It was there I learned I had a spirit and that I connected with God through my spirit..not my intellect or emotions. However I had very little understanding and experience in walking in the spirit. Especially when Lee controlling our spirits through his 'life' studies, trainings, etc.. !

Quote:
3. How have you / are you leveraging your regrets about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" so that these experiences can be gain to you now?
My experiences were not as bad as many if not most people's here. I was in the LC a very short time compared to most: 4 yrs about (1975-1979) but it has had a lifetime lasting effect. Why would I even be on this forum if my LC experience did not have a profound effect on me?

Quote:
4. Forgiveness - have you reached out in person to ask forgiveness of those you may have injured during your time in the "Lord's Recovery" (family, etc)? How have you dealt with your relationships with people who shepherded you, particularly with what you feel now was poor counsel, in the "Lord's Recovery"?
It's N/A to me. However, I have had my share of deep repentance on personal matters.

Quote:
5. Do you think there was anything in the doctrine or practice that particularly attracted you to the "Lord's Recovery" or do you think you could have been similarly attracted to any high-demand Christian group?
My experience over all was a positive one. There were lots of people in my age range who were on fire for the Lord and cared for each other. We were not perfect but we were a good bunch over all.

Quote:
6. What tools have you found most useful in "recovering from the Lord's Recovery?" Specific books? Counseling? Blogging? Specific relationships?
Being open to other Christians experiences and 'views'. The internet has given me access to some great and powerful teachings. Amazing GRACE.

Blessings
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

1. I know that God will someday use my experience in the LSM Church for His glory (maybe he already has?), so I hesitate to label it as a regret - but my answer would be regretting wasting so much time and energy on a completely made-up "recovery". I chuckle to myself just thinking about Witness Lee and his "recovery" of his church.

2. Everything in my spirit told me that the LSM was wrong. To what degree they are in error, only the Lord knows. I spent many hours reading scripture and praying during this time - this was born out of my deep concern for what I had found myself in. In this way the "recovery" forced me to focus on my "armor of God" Ephesians 6. Thank the Lord especially for my shield of faith and sword of the Spirit!

3. Just like Mormon's I have known, people in the LSM church believe they've really touched God - in a way that others haven't. There is only one thing that matters, that is Jesus and Him crucified. Beware of the traps laid by fallen man.

4. I pray for and feel saddened for those I have met during my time in the LSM church. May God deliver them to His truth.

5. Not really applicable to my story.

6. This forum has been very beneficial to me. I can talk to other believers, but they can't really understand LSM churches. I was only there for a year, but I gave it 100% for that 12 months. Nonetheless, my relationship with Jesus and faith in His works and word have been sufficient to "recover from the recovery" /
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Hey, leastofthese. Love the name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leastofthese View Post
I was only there for a year, but I gave it 100% for that 12 months./
I was in for a decade. I've been out for decades ... and I'm still recovering from the recovery.

Some out here don't like it when I called the LSM local church a cult. I understand. It paints innocent good brothers and sisters as weak minded zombies.

But I have to say, I was one. Yep! I'm guilty as charged. My downfall was reading their books. I loved Nee and Lee. I took their teachings to heart.

Then I started to see Lee not practicing what was taught in his/their books. By then I was all in. It was my life. So I overlooked the first instance of Lee violating his own teaching, concerning the ground of the church. Then within a year it happened again, again not honoring the ground of the church.

From then on I kept a close eye on Lee. Hypocrisies were stacking up. That's why, I guess, that when Lee started pushing the minister of the age teaching, with him as the top dog MOTA, I couldn't buy it. His teaching didn't gibe with his practice, so how could he be the minister of God in this age?

But I digress. Back to recovering from the recovery. I don't think we ever recover, not fully. I look at it like a hurricane bending a palm tree over. From that point the tree continues to grow, but bent over. We're bent over trees. The local church bent us. I guess that means we're bent ... ha ha ...

Good luck recovering from the recovery. I find it comes and goes in stages. I've noticed that those that have left are at different stages of freedom from it. t takes time to free your mind. It's a growing process..
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

1. What do you most regret about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" group?

Not learning/application of grace.

2. What real gains in your life did you experience during your time in the "Lord's Recovery"?

Salvation, Baptism, getting a foundation in the Word, what can be achieved when we pray for one another in a group setting, and learning to heed my human spirit...

3. How have you / are you leveraging your regrets about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" so that these experiences can be gain to you now?

I'm still learning, but to give grace.

4. Forgiveness - have you reached out in person to ask forgiveness of those you may have injured during your time in the "Lord's Recovery" (family, etc)? How have you dealt with your relationships with people who shepherded you, particularly with what you feel now was poor counsel, in the "Lord's Recovery"?

Forgiveness, yes.

5. Do you think there was anything in the doctrine or practice that particularly attracted you to the "Lord's Recovery" or do you think you could have been similarly attracted to any high-demand Christian group?

Was raised in the local churches from the age of 2 or 3.

6. What tools have you found most useful in "recovering from the Lord's Recovery?" Specific books? Counseling? Blogging? Specific relationships?

Leading With Love by Alexander Strauch
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

1. What do you most regret about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" group?
I trusted the brothers far too much.

2. What real gains in your life did you experience during your time in the "Lord's Recovery"?
Helped me to overcome self-consciousness and speak in public.

3. How have you / are you leveraging your regrets about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" so that these experiences can be gain to you now?
I learned a valuable practice called "treasure hunting" from Gary Smalley, which is digging into painful or bad experiences to find the good I can take away.

4. Forgiveness - have you reached out in person to ask forgiveness of those you may have injured during your time in the "Lord's Recovery" (family, etc)? How have you dealt with your relationships with people who shepherded you, particularly with what you feel now was poor counsel, in the "Lord's Recovery"?
I often received much bad counsel in the LC's. Looking back, I marvel that there were nearly no wise counselors in the LC's, and those that were in charge, gave the worst counsel.

5. Do you think there was anything in the doctrine or practice that particularly attracted you to the "Lord's Recovery" or do you think you could have been similarly attracted to any high-demand Christian group?
I was initially attracted to their love for the Lord, their love for His Word, and their love for one another. Slowly over time these almost vanished and was replaced by the allegiance to ministries in Anaheim and Cleveland.

6. What tools have you found most useful in "recovering from the Lord's Recovery?" Specific books? Counseling? Blogging? Specific relationships?
This forum has definitely helped to expose the leaven in the teachings in the LC and the years of unrighteousness hidden from the members. Reading the accounts of well-respected brothers I once knew also helped immensely. Right now I just started reading The Bait of Satan, by John Bevere, which has helped many Christians I know.
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by eDh22 View Post
I really appreciate the welcome, and the insight I've received on this board after posting my story about leaving the "Lord's Recovery". In the last month, I've reached out to some "safe" people in my life with LSM ties to hear their stories, briefly spoke with a therapist on the topic, and read several books about young women who grew up in / joined high demand Christian groups, left, and how they moved forward with their lives. I also visited the "standard" church down the street to get a glimpse of "normal Christianity".

Which has brought me to the following questions that I've been asking myself. I would love to hear your answers:

1. What do you most regret about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" group?
I have no regrets. Alternative life histories are fantasies. Why entertain them?

Quote:
2. What real gains in your life did you experience during your time in the "Lord's Recovery"?
I gained a wife and three daughters.

Quote:
3. How have you / are you leveraging your regrets about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" so that these experiences can be gain to you now?
Not applicable.

Quote:
4. Forgiveness - have you reached out in person to ask forgiveness of those you may have injured during your time in the "Lord's Recovery" (family, etc)? How have you dealt with your relationships with people who shepherded you, particularly with what you feel now was poor counsel, in the "Lord's Recovery"?
I have reached out to several people including Harold Dixon and Bill Mallon and I was well received by them. I forgive those who "shepherded" me. They knew not what they did.

Quote:
5. Do you think there was anything in the doctrine or practice that particularly attracted you to the "Lord's Recovery" or do you think you could have been similarly attracted to any high-demand Christian group?
Oh, it was the claim that they had found the way to oneness. They had the appearance of it, but it was contrived. I might have been similarly attracted by another "high demand group", but we'll never know, and it is unlikely it will ever happen to me again because, I think the LCM finished me for such experiences. But, who knows. One ought to remain open to new experiences, don't you think?

Quote:
6. What tools have you found most useful in "recovering from the Lord's Recovery?" Specific books? Counseling? Blogging? Specific relationships?
I found the theology of Paul Tillich helpful in transitioning out of the LCM. "The Courage to Be" and his "Systematic Theology". Normal relationships with people at work, family and friends outside the church were essential to recovering. Honorable mention goes to Awareness who I knew in the church and with whom I have, I feel, a deep and abiding friendship via the cell phone and online.

Disclaimer: These are my responses at this moment. I reserve the right to change them whenever.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Honorable mention goes to Awareness who I knew in the church and with whom I have, I feel, a deep and abiding friendship via the cell phone and online.
Ditto bro zeek ... ditto.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Wow, I don't usually think back on my time in the LRC in the context of "regrets" but I did have a few. Probably my biggest regret was when I heard that Brother Barber had terminal cancer (it was a Sunday morning). I regret that I didn't immediately (as soon as the meeting was over) get in my car and drive to Oklahoma, find him, and pray with him for his healing. I believe had I done that it would have been a very big fork in the road for my experience in the LRC. It is one of those times I feel like the Lord was speaking to me and I ignored him. I could have easily done it, had plenty of vacation days and personal days, was single, etc. Could have, would have, should have -- I guess the definition of regret.

The real gains were in repentance and other experiences that I'll never forget, people that I met and that made a big impact on my life, faith, hope, and love.

The regrets, like the one I mentioned, were examples of not being faithful to the Lord's speaking to me. I am leveraging these by making sure I don't forget, but rather learn from that to be more sensitive to the still small voice within.

Two of the people that shepherded me are now dead. I went to one funeral, was unable to go to the other but did visit later on. I do not feel that I received poor counsel, and that includes counsel from Ray Graver, Benson Phillips, and others.

What attracted me to the LRC was that I was doing everything possible to discourage them while at the same time praying secretly that if they were really sent by the Lord that He have mercy on me and not let them get discouraged. I once asked a brother why he kept coming for an entire year and not giving up and he told me it was because I was honest with him.

My biggest problem on leaving is to wrap my head around the "error". What was it, who made it, when, what should I have done differently, etc. This forum has helped me greatly in working through those questions.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Leastofthese I just got on this forum yesterday because my 22 yo son gave up his opportunity to go to PA school to go to California (FTTA). I am encouraged that you saw the truth of their ways and was wondering if you could enlighten me as to how to proceed. I am also encouraged that you are still a believer because I would hate more than anything for people who leave LC to feel as though God has left them.

Are your parents Christians also, how did they react to your leaving for FTTA? We don't know what to do. We have tried for a year to show him biblically and socially the "red flags" of this group to no avail.

I am really in need of a support group for parents of students, do you know of any? We want to support our son without supporting his decision to go to the "training". We realize that if we are too harsh it will only give them leverage to turn him against us completely. We want to him to fell as though he can always come back, because we Love him very much. That is of course also what Christ would have us do.

I have also been reading in these threads about people being "married off" at the end of the training. How prevalent is that? Is there extreme pressure in that area?

Any help and insight is appreciated. I am located in Texas just in case you know of anyone in my area who can help us.

Thanks in advance
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Welcome to the forum vendingqueen!

I encourage you to pray for your son. There is a lot of promotion within the LC for college grads to attend FTTA. The allure is to know the Lord and the truth, with other personal and spiritual benefits. Many times, however, the excessive promotion of Witness Lee and his doctrines, coupled with legalism, turns off many an attendant, especially those who have not grown up in the program.

During the FTTA, brothers and sisters are mostly separated, but towards the end of the training, there are matchmaking efforts by the trainers towards the more positive trainees. They are definitely looking for future leaders.
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Yes, welcome vendingqueen. This web site may be a good source of help and encouragement for you and your son.

I heartily agree with Ohio.

I'm praying for your son and you. I'm another of many former "local church" members that frequent this sight. I watched the overt pressure put on college students who were recruited into "a local church" to go to FTTA, then watched what attending it did to those who did, and was disgusted by it all.

I'm from California, so I'm not aware of Texas resources for you. But, I've seen a number of regular contributors to this forum who said they live there.

If I recall correctly, OBW, is from Dallas-Fort Worth. Perhaps he or others from Texas will read and respond to this thread. The Private Messages feature of these boards can be used to send and receive messages between members to facilitate making local connections.

I've seen some posts on other threads that mention helpful books for people like your son and you, but don't recall their names. Does anyone else remember them?

Blessings in Christ Jesus. JJ
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post

During the FTTA, brothers and sisters are mostly separated, but towards the end of the training, there are matchmaking efforts by the trainers towards the more positive trainees. They are definitely looking for future leaders.
From words of others, about the only time brothers and sisters are not separated is when they serve together. This may go along with what Ohio posted. Trainers match brother and sister trainees together with the intent nature will take it's course in leading to marriage. I don't know if it's an accurate statement or not. Perhaps those who was a trainer (ZNP) or former trainees on this forum can testify to their experiences/witnesses.
I can only say brothers I lived with in corporate living, once they graduated from FTTA they were married shortly after. It could have been arranged or it could have been an existing relationship prior to FTTA.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by vendingqueen View Post
Leastofthese I just got on this forum yesterday because my 22 yo son gave up his opportunity to go to PA school to go to California (FTTA). I am encouraged that you saw the truth of their ways and was wondering if you could enlighten me as to how to proceed. I am also encouraged that you are still a believer because I would hate more than anything for people who leave LC to feel as though God has left them.

Are your parents Christians also, how did they react to your leaving for FTTA? We don't know what to do. We have tried for a year to show him biblically and socially the "red flags" of this group to no avail.

I am really in need of a support group for parents of students, do you know of any? We want to support our son without supporting his decision to go to the "training". We realize that if we are too harsh it will only give them leverage to turn him against us completely. We want to him to fell as though he can always come back, because we Love him very much. That is of course also what Christ would have us do.

I have also been reading in these threads about people being "married off" at the end of the training. How prevalent is that? Is there extreme pressure in that area?

Any help and insight is appreciated. I am located in Texas just in case you know of anyone in my area who can help us.

Thanks in advance
I'm sorry to hear about your son. What has been shared on this thread matches my thoughts and experiences as well. I personally never attended FTTA, the training I referred to in other posts was over Christmas break in Anaheim.

The best way to proceed is through love, prayer, and honest discussion with your son. The LC is very experienced in combating dissenters, especially parents of young people. They will give him the ammunition he needs to handle your questions. It will be difficult for you to have these conversations because, unless you've been through it, it is almost impossible to have the context to have a meaningful discussion.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any sort of groups that are available in Texas or otherwise. There are a number of members of this forum that live in TX.

How can you love your son and point him towards Christ? How can you let him know that you love him too much to see him make potentially the biggest mistake of his life?

Don't give him any room to justify cutting you out of his life - this is the last thing he needs.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:22 PM   #15
eDh22
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

I'm so sorry to hear about your son. What motivates him? Why has he joined and quit anything else in the past? For me, I am very values-driven and I finally left the LC people I loved and respected pointed out that the LCs were promoting values I strongly disagreed with (precisely, denigrating other Christians and reading books from only one source). One of my brothers is highly motivated by feeling respected and he finally cut ties when a leading brother publicly cut into him at a meeting after he had put his heart into sharing. Another of my brothers is motivated by loyalty and left after someone he cared about was shunned.

The book "Leaving the Fold" by Marlene Winnell was incredibly helpful to me as I left, and understanding how others can safely leave high-demand fundamentalist religions. Some find her therapy methods questionable but the first part of the book helped me pick apart why the LC had been so important to me and what I was going through while leaving.

"Girl at the End of the World" by Elizabeth Esther made me laugh and cry about growing up in an elitist fundamentalist group. She and her husband finally left due to unchecked physical abuse and she, interestingly, became a Catholic.

This article about how Megan Roper left Westboro Baptist Church is one of my all-time favorite reads. It gives me hopes that anyone can be saved from cults and cultlike environments. It also give me hope that I too can turn my life around from the selfish, self-righteous, wretched, judgmental person that I was in the LCs. There are many years ahead of us to heal, be forgiven, and live strongly.
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by vendingqueen View Post
Leastofthese I just got on this forum yesterday because my 22 yo son gave up his opportunity to go to PA school to go to California (FTTA). I am encouraged that you saw the truth of their ways and was wondering if you could enlighten me as to how to proceed. I am also encouraged that you are still a believer because I would hate more than anything for people who leave LC to feel as though God has left them.

Are your parents Christians also, how did they react to your leaving for FTTA? We don't know what to do. We have tried for a year to show him biblically and socially the "red flags" of this group to no avail.

I am really in need of a support group for parents of students, do you know of any? We want to support our son without supporting his decision to go to the "training". We realize that if we are too harsh it will only give them leverage to turn him against us completely. We want to him to fell as though he can always come back, because we Love him very much. That is of course also what Christ would have us do.

I have also been reading in these threads about people being "married off" at the end of the training. How prevalent is that? Is there extreme pressure in that area?

Any help and insight is appreciated. I am located in Texas just in case you know of anyone in my area who can help us.

Thanks in advance
If your son is in the FTTA they will encourage him to preach the gospel, yet very few of them actually do. They'll be desperate to speak with anyone who will listen. I suggest you listen.

For example, I would encourage you to ask him to explain the ground of the church to you. That will be irresistible opportunity for him. He will tell you many things about the Temple and the OT, I would agree with him that the Temple is a type of the church, I would agree with him that the ground of the temple was very important.

Encourage him to speak on these things long, he might do so for 30 minutes or more. But then I would ask "if this is so important what does it say about the ground of the church in the NT"?

No need to discredit or respond to whatever he says. He himself will know that it is quite weak. He will probably come back to it again and again. But if not ask him "Jesus said 'on this rock He would build His church'", was He talking about the "ground of the church"?

If you continue to revisit this one question with him, "what does the NT say". It will go a long way to helping him see.

He will give you verses on the importance of oneness -- so then you can ask "so then this group you are with, you are one with all Christians"? He'll respond in the affirmative with some explanation, no need to argue. That question will nag at him.

He will give you verses about the evil of denominations. Once again, you can ask "so these Christians name themselves after something other than Jesus because they are following something other than Jesus, and the group you are with, you only follow Jesus?" Once again, these questions will be like harpoons, they'll stick in him and bother him again, and again.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by eDh22 View Post
I really appreciate the welcome, and the insight I've received on this board after posting my story about leaving the "Lord's Recovery". In the last month, I've reached out to some "safe" people in my life with LSM ties to hear their stories, briefly spoke with a therapist on the topic, and read several books about young women who grew up in / joined high demand Christian groups, left, and how they moved forward with their lives. I also visited the "standard" church down the street to get a glimpse of "normal Christianity".

Which has brought me to the following questions that I've been asking myself. I would love to hear your answers:

1. What do you most regret about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" group?

2. What real gains in your life did you experience during your time in the "Lord's Recovery"?

3. How have you / are you leveraging your regrets about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" so that these experiences can be gain to you now?

4. Forgiveness - have you reached out in person to ask forgiveness of those you may have injured during your time in the "Lord's Recovery" (family, etc)? How have you dealt with your relationships with people who shepherded you, particularly with what you feel now was poor counsel, in the "Lord's Recovery"?

5. Do you think there was anything in the doctrine or practice that particularly attracted you to the "Lord's Recovery" or do you think you could have been similarly attracted to any high-demand Christian group?

6. What tools have you found most useful in "recovering from the Lord's Recovery?" Specific books? Counseling? Blogging? Specific relationships?

Hi! It's really comforting and validating to see questions like this bc I have the same ones so happy to share my experience and also want to know others....
I'll just list them like you questioned....

1. I regret not knowing how to function very well in the "world"- the us vs. them mindset and all the "worldly" concepts, for me, made it hard to connect with people outside the church life. A close second, I've realized- is missing out on a closer relationship with my extended family. We were lucky that they were able to realize they just shouldn't ever talk about it but I was almost an adult before I realized that my aunts and uncles really loved the Lord, and I felt like I missed out on some spiritual guidance bc they didn't want to overstep with us.

2. Knowing I can experience Christ in a personal way. Seeing some good examples of that. Knowing its all about your heart towards God.

3. I've had to separate the practices in the LC that are taught by WL and LSM from the people in the LC. The people are the body of Christ. I see it as members of the body of Christ being mislead and caught up in a system of misleading practices and exploitation.

4. Such a great question and so important too. I guess I don't harbor bad feelings anymore bc I've really tried to understand their perspective given the time period and the things they were hearing. Also trying to understand their background and childhoods can be helpful. Sometimes the ones in control were just good "bait" from the higher ups. I've also listened to messages online from the 80's that helped me understand the mindset my parents had from what they were listening to.

5. I grew up in it, left for most of my 20's, had a spiritual turn and went back. I was definitely experiencing the Lord but didn't question the LC and just accepted everything as truth. As time went by and I felt more pressure to confirm and didn't feel like I was fitting in, I started to see there was a culture there that wasn't Christ, just a culture of unspoken (and spoken) pressure to make everyone conform. I started researching healthy vs. unhealthy church practices and saw too many things that hit the mark on the unhealthy side.
I also read two books I'd recommend, "Toxic Faith" and "The subtle power of spiritual abuse", both great. Also Jane Andersons book. It all started coming together.

6. I guess I partly answered that in #5. Ive been to counseling and I try to read everything I can get my hands on when I have time to help me get past this and heal. Currently I'm still just trying to accept it with my family being so involved and just accepting I have to just let go, pray, and watch when I see the negative effects it has on them. It's hard knowing you just can't do anything sometimes besides pray and love them. It just creates a barrier when you know you both feel strongly about an issue and its the elephant in the room, so to speak.

Glad to hopefully see more on this topic in the thread.....thx for asking, want to know the same advice myself.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:18 PM   #18
kumbaya
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Two of the people that shepherded me are now dead. I went to one funeral, was unable to go to the other but did visit later on. I do not feel that I received poor counsel, and that includes counsel from Ray Graver, Benson Phillips, and others.

Hi! I'm just curious to know if we know each other...would you mind messaging me who the brothers who shepherded you were that passed?
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:39 PM   #19
kumbaya
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

I have also been reading in these threads about people being "married off" at the end of the training. How prevalent is that? Is there extreme pressure in that area?

Hi, I have family and friends in the LC (I grew up in it) and have unfortunately seen a bad trend related to this.

There is such an extreme separation during the training between the brothers and sisters that I've seen (granted, I know this happens just in society!) people almost make it their "idol" or ultimate goal to just get married.

I think the system creates a lot of unspoken expectations while preventing people from REALLY getting to know each other. When you're in a bubble, everyone is HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY.

Who they are outside the bubble and how they handle life after the FTT is a totally different story.

I'm not trying to discourage you and obviously there are probably just as many happy marriages as unhappy ones from people meeting in the FTT but it is a "practical" way to marry someone with the same mindset and happens a lot.

I just don't think its the healthiest environment and think its 100% possible to learn the Bible without "wasting" those years on the Lord as they explain it. I feel that term is highly manipulated to the LSM's goals unfortunately.

I think thats the most dangerous thing they do. Yes, you should follow the Lord but they're using controlling practices to influence you so the lines get blurred. Specifically, I've seen a LOT of cases unfortunately where its the same as your child and I'm so sorry. I don't understand how they can justify it but the pressure currently to move to Europe and other countries is HUGE. I know several people (including close family) that haven't begun their trades or not continued their education in their 20's and moved to other countries to "serve the Lord" as the LC sees fit of course. Two I know were very unhappy but luckily one was able to move back to the US with her husband. It was kind of an ordeal though.

I know several full timers wives that I know feel duped. Raising kids on a next to nothing income at home, in college towns away from their family.

It's considered an "honor" to them to "waste your younger years on the Lord," but they're also putting people in a manipulative system and on a trajectory that's hard to get off of.

I agree that we should give our lives to Christ and serve him, but how can you do that when you're told exactly what to do and how to do it?

I'm sorry you're going through this and if I hear of any support systems for parents I'll come back and list....

Honestly, I think it's hard when you're experiencing Christ but also there's unspoken pressure to confirm and not use critical thinking. There is no avenue for questioning so it tends to not happen until it builds up to a boiling point.

Which- I CAN tell you, DOES happen. I feel like people do come to this realization and just STAY and justify it somehow or they choose to LEAVE.

All the tactics can only work for so long though, hopefully with maturity your son will see the unhealthy practices and be able to choose for himself. When you're young, its such an easy escape from the hardships of the world. The LC is their drug of choice to "check out" from reality.

Sorry if that's a bad reference. I've just seen people use religion as an escape and the same issues will come up later no matter what the escape is.

Hopefully this forum will give you some insight! Much love
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:55 AM   #20
Bradley
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Default Re: Recovering from the Recovery - Requesting your Insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by eDh22 View Post
1. What do you most regret about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" group?
I regret never talking to women, or having a girlfriend before getting married. Now I'm trying to learn how to flirt in my 30s and I suck at it.

Quote:
2. What real gains in your life did you experience during your time in the "Lord's Recovery"?
I had some very real experiences of Christ, that no one can take away from me. Even some coworkers don't believe me when I talk about them but they were real and they happened (actually that just made me think less of the coworkers).

Quote:
3. How have you / are you leveraging your regrets about your time in the "Lord's Recovery" so that these experiences can be gain to you now?
I don't really understand the question. Leverage the regrets? I guess I'm more cynical now and question everything, thats a good thing that came out of it.

Quote:
4. Forgiveness - have you reached out in person to ask forgiveness of those you may have injured during your time in the "Lord's Recovery" (family, etc)?
I apologised to a cousin for this one time I spent ages trying to get him to call on the Lord - but he apologised right back at me, he was only taking me for a ride, winding me up - he thought the whole thing was hilarious. All my family think it was him who should be apologizing not me. Still though, awkward.

Quote:
4b.How have you dealt with your relationships with people who shepherded you, particularly with what you feel now was poor counsel, in the "Lord's Recovery"?
As for those who 'sheperded' me - if I bump into anyone on the street I will politely say hello and then move on, avoiding conversation as much as possible without being impolite

Quote:
5. Do you think there was anything in the doctrine or practice that particularly attracted you to the "Lord's Recovery" or do you think you could have been similarly attracted to any high-demand Christian group?
Yeah, the higher reality. After watching the Matrix and having some spiritual experiences to realise that the world is not what it seems, then reading the first chapter of the All Inclusive Christ is captivating. Like, "here's all the answers to all your questions about the secret of life and existence, right here". Very attractive to a truth-seeker.

Quote:
6. What tools have you found most useful in "recovering from the Lord's Recovery?" Specific books? Counseling? Blogging? Specific relationships?
Dating. Not thinking about it. Dancing. Alcohol.

Last edited by Bradley; 12-22-2017 at 02:04 AM. Reason: Added 4b
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