Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump tweeted yesterday that he has an absolute right to pardon himself from any crime. "As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to pardon myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong? In the meantime The neverending witch-hunt, led by 13 very angry and conflicted Democrats and others continues into the midterms!"

Back when Richard Nixon tried to obstruct justice the then acting Assistant Attorney General Mary C Lawton addressed the question of whether the POTUS can pardon himself in a memo. She concluded that it violates the basic notion that no one can serve as their own judge. Nixon resigned four days later.

This is Trump's latest attempt to usurp the rule of law. He's claiming to be above the law like King George of England. That's why the colonies signed the Declaration of Independence and enshrined the rule of law in the Constitution. This guy Trump is a would-be tyrant and he must be stopped.

Here is how the UK solved that problem - put him in a castle (err.. white house?), pay him lots of money for doing nothing (err.. playing golf?)...give him a crown and fancy jewelry..call him "your highness" .. oh yeah the important one .. create a parliament. Problem solved.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump said in the past he was eager to sit for an interview with Robert Mueller. Now he's waffling on that and holding up the investigation. If he wants it over you should sit down and tell the truth but I don't think he knows how.

There is no such thing as "over" with Muller.

Muller has all the information he wants. There is nothing he can learn from Trump. But Muller can't find a crime, so he needs to set a perjury trap for Trump like he did with General Flynn.

Perhaps it is a crime to tell the NFL players to stand for the national anthem.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

This is Trump's latest attempt to usurp the rule of law. He's claiming to be above the law like King George of England. That's why the colonies signed the Declaration of Independence and enshrined the rule of law in the Constitution. This guy Trump is a would-be tyrant and he must be stopped.

Why shouldn't Trump enjoy the same perks as the Obama administration?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Perhaps it is a crime to tell the NFL players to stand for the national anthem.

There was not a single Philadelphia Eagle's player that kneeled during the national Anthem this year. Falling for that hokey "national celebration" is embarrassing to anyone with an IQ greater than 80

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

This guy Trump is a would-be tyrant and he must be stopped.

Convince a couple of Republicans and it will be done.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why shouldn't Trump enjoy the same perks as the Obama administration?

If Obama had done the same as Trump in his first year, he would have already been impeached.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Convince a couple of Republicans and it will be done.

That won't happen. The pubbies don't even care if Russia meddles in our elections, as long as they win.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

If Obama had done the same as Trump in his first year, he would have already been impeached.

Originally Posted by awareness

That won't happen. The pubbies don't even care if Russia meddles in our elections, as long as they win.

I'm constantly amazed at how your conclusions are never supported by facts.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm constantly amazed at how your conclusions are never supported by facts.

Well not the Fox facts.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There was not a single Philadelphia Eagle's player that kneeled during the national Anthem this year. Falling for that hokey "national celebration" is embarrassing to anyone with an IQ greater than 80

Short of facts?

Why is it that Trump hatred tends to remove 50 points off one's IQ?

Apparently only 2 players and the mascot actually planned to visit the White House.

Just a cheesy plan to embarrass Trump prior to the NoKo Summit.

The NFL has become classless, and disrespectful to our nation.

The fans get it. Perhaps low IQ?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Short of facts?

Why is it that Trump hatred tends to remove 50 points off one's IQ?

Apparently only 2 players and the mascot actually planned to visit the White House.

Just a cheesy plan to embarrass Trump prior to the NoKo Summit.

The NFL has become classless, and disrespectful to our nation.

The fans get it. Perhaps low IQ?

And you don't ask why so many football players, basketball players, etc., etc., don't want to go to the Whitehouse?

Whatever happened to democracy, representing the people? Yes, these athletes represent a complete mix of our society, but all of them are rich, every single one, and as a result they tend to be more conservative and more republican than their age and race would suggest.

You have the need to say "cheesy"? The cheesiest thing was that pathetic celebration Trump had. The only people who actually kneeled during the national anthem took place during his Whitehouse celebration.

He is an embarrassment.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

And you don't ask why so many football players, basketball players, etc., etc., don't want to go to the Whitehouse?

Whatever happened to democracy, representing the people? Yes, these athletes represent a complete mix of our society, but all of them are rich, every single one, and as a result they tend to be more conservative and more republican than their age and race would suggest.

You have the need to say "cheesy"? The cheesiest thing was that pathetic celebration Trump had. The only people who actually kneeled during the national anthem took place during his Whitehouse celebration.

He is an embarrassment.

The Eagles and their owner are the embarrassment -- deceptive at every turn. I'm sure the Secret Service has advised Trump never to participate with such a group of anti-American haters -- how could they protect him from an attack?

Your comment proves how the Democratic Party is the party of the rich, but not as you say "more Republican." Isn't it becoming hard for you to manipulate the facts around a false narrative? Don't the statistical facts tell us that the rich from the wealthy states are far more apt to be Liberals? And the poor working men and women are more apt to be conservative?

Representing the people? How about a fair and honest Press. Obviously these rich, coastline, millennial athletes have been influenced by negative Press, 95% of which is skewed to smear the President. Why don't you fact check some of their distortions? Why do you discard your forensics training when it comes to the media?

Have you ever looked into the so-called underlying protest movement concerning the National Anthem? Have you any idea how many lies, distortions, and deceptions are promulgated to maintain this false narrative? "White cops targeting innocent black men" has no basis in reality -- but who cares -- because nearly all professional football and basketball players have swallowed this fiction.

How do you justify all your hatred with the Lord's command to love even your enemies? And Paul's instructions to pray for our leaders?

I hear a lot of backlash against evangelical Christians, but I saw much more prayer from them concerning Obama, than I see in your hatred coming from Liberals towards Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Eagles and their owner are the embarrassment -- deceptive at every turn. I'm sure the Secret Service has advised Trump never to participate with such a group of anti-American haters -- how could they protect him from an attack?

Anti American? I am pretty sure that the NFL is American (don't know of any other country to even try this sport other than Canada) and the Superbowl winners are the standard bearer of this very american sport.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Your comment proves how the Democratic Party is the party of the rich, but not as you say "more Republican." Isn't it becoming hard for you to manipulate the facts around a false narrative? Don't the statistical facts tell us that the rich from the wealthy states are far more apt to be Liberals? And the poor working men and women are more apt to be conservative?

My comment didn't "prove" anything. It was anecdotal so at best it illustrated the point that these are Americans who are happy with America, they have done extremely well for themselves in this country, went to college, have extremely profitable careers and are successful. If you had 80 people in a prison who were angry with the President that wouldn't besmirch the President's reputation, but the fact that all of these people don't want to be honored at the White house, that is telling.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Representing the people? How about a fair and honest Press. Obviously these rich, coastline, millennial athletes have been influenced by negative Press, 95% of which is skewed to smear the President. Why don't you fact check some of their distortions? Why do you discard your forensics training when it comes to the media?

That is insulting. Anyone who disagrees with you has been hoodwinked. Once you take that position it is no longer possible to have a reasonable conversation.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you ever looked into the so-called underlying protest movement concerning the National Anthem? Have you any idea how many lies, distortions, and deceptions are promulgated to maintain this false narrative? "White cops targeting innocent black men" has no basis in reality -- but who cares -- because nearly all professional football and basketball players have swallowed this fiction.

Yes I have and I disagree with what they are doing. I disagree that this is a matter of free speech because I have no issue with them saying this in a tweet or through other avenues, but I feel it makes them look like spoiled brats to be making millions of dollars playing this game and then using the platform of the NFL game to make their protest. I also have no issue with the owners not hiring these guys who protested. The idea that they can protest as long as it doesn't cost them anything is anathema. That said, this had absolutely nothing to do with that protest. It has been pointed out repeatedly that the Eagles never once had any member kneeling during the Anthem. So Trump tweeting that this is the issue is nothing but "fake news" and another example of his lies.

Originally Posted by Ohio

How do you justify all your hatred with the Lord's command to love even your enemies? And Paul's instructions to pray for our leaders?

I hear a lot of backlash against evangelical Christians, but I saw much more prayer from them concerning Obama, than I see in your hatred coming from Liberals towards Trump.

Hatred? Because I said he is an embarrassment? You are confusing your emotions. Ashamed of him, yes. Hate him, no. Pray for him, yes. Excuse his bad behavior and repeat his lies, no.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Anti American? I am pretty sure that the NFL is American (don't know of any other country to even try this sport other than Canada) and the Superbowl winners are the standard bearer of this very american sport.

Let me explain this to the willfully ignorant. Of course the sport of football and the NFL is American, but you obfuscate these facts with a handful of players who disrespect our flag, our anthem, our military, our nation, and the fans who pay so much money to watch the game.

It's not that complicated. You're a smart guy. Take a few days off to figure it out.

And let me remind you that this whole movement was initiated by Nessa Diab, the very progressive and pretty Muslam radio host girlfriend of Colin Kapernick. Amazing what she has done to a formerly Christian athlete.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Let me explain this to the willfully ignorant. Of course the sport of football and the NFL is American, but you obfuscate these facts with a handful of players who disrespect our flag, our anthem, our military, our nation,

That is not what they are doing and you know it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Let me explain this to the willfully ignorant. Of course the sport of football and the NFL is American, but you obfuscate these facts with a handful of players who disrespect our flag, our anthem, our military, our nation, and the fans who pay so much money to watch the game.

It's not that complicated. You're a smart guy. Take a few days off to figure it out.

And let me remind you that this whole movement was initiated by Nessa Diab, the very progressive and pretty Muslam radio host girlfriend of Colin Kapernick. Amazing what she has done to a formerly Christian athlete.

I agree that a there are a few players who did not think out their protest very well and instead of focusing on the issue they are concerned with their lame protest was seen as a blanket disrespect for the flag, anthem, military and nation.

But none of those players is on the Philadelphia Eagles. Claiming that this is the reason to cancel the celebration is, how did you say it, "willfully ignorant".

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree that a there are a few players who did not think out their protest very well and instead of focusing on the issue they are concerned with their lame protest was seen as a blanket disrespect for the flag, anthem, military and nation.

But none of those players is on the Philadelphia Eagles. Claiming that this is the reason to cancel the celebration is, how did you say it, "willfully ignorant".

They are American sports players, in the land of the free. They are free to honor or not honor whatever they want. The president nor anyone else has a right to tell them what to do and not do.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That is not what they are doing and you know it.

What do I know about who doing what???

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

They are American sports players, in the land of the free. They are free to honor or not honor whatever they want. The president nor anyone else has a right to tell them what to do and not do.

Our first amendment rights to assembly and free speech DO NOT occur at our jobs. The President is a citizen and a sports consumer so he definitely has a right to express his opinion.

Is that too hard to understand?

Show me one another place of employment that allows its employees to offend its customers with political statements about our national anthem, our flag, our military, etc?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree that a there are a few players who did not think out their protest very well and instead of focusing on the issue they are concerned with their lame protest was seen as a blanket disrespect for the flag, anthem, military and nation.

But none of those players is on the Philadelphia Eagles. Claiming that this is the reason to cancel the celebration is, how did you say it, "willfully ignorant".

Apparently you have not read up on the games the Eagles were playing with the White House. They requested their special visit be rescheduled during the the Singapore Summit. Do you understand that when the White House invites you over, perhaps it is you who must change your schedule to accommodate? To change the WH schedule affects hundreds or thousands of staff and security, not to mention NoKo.

White House: ‘Vast Majority’ of Philadelphia Eagles Abandoned Fans

Sorry but your info is just plain wrong. I suppose you got it from a fake news network.

Report: Nick Foles Was the Only Eagle Going to the White House

You keep saying the Eagles did not protest. Sure they did. Look at the fists.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What do I know about who doing what???

Exactly ....

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

They are American sports players, in the land of the free. They are free to honor or not honor whatever they want. The president nor anyone else has a right to tell them what to do and not do.

Yes, that is true. But if they are free, then so are the owners to hire them or not. The complaint that they have to hire these players is really pathetic.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Apparently you have not read up on the games the Eagles were playing with the White House. They requested their special visit be rescheduled during the the Singapore Summit. Do you understand that when the White House invites you over, perhaps it is you who must change your schedule to accommodate? To change the WH schedule affects hundreds or thousands of staff and security, not to mention NoKo.

White House: ‘Vast Majority’ of Philadelphia Eagles Abandoned Fans

Sorry but your info is just plain wrong. I suppose you got it from a fake news network.

Report: Nick Foles Was the Only Eagle Going to the White House

You keep saying the Eagles did not protest. Sure they did. Look at the fists.

So what, don't reschedule, a few people show up, then it is on the Eagles.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So what, don't reschedule, a few people show up, then it is on the Eagles.

Did you read that article?

Only Nick Foles planned to go.

It was just a "game" from the beginning ...

And the end for me.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Did you read that article?

Only Nick Foles planned to go.

It was just a "game" from the beginning ...

And the end for me.

So what! If he doesn't cancel it then it isn't on him. 50% of the country would condemn the Eagles. This is the act of someone with a brittle, fragile ego who lacks self esteem.

But instead he cancels it blaming them for:

1. Kneeling in protest of our Anthem -- something they didn't do

and then when that is exposed as a lie

2. Attempting to reschedule when he isn't there. Just say no, can't do it then, we'll have to do it as scheduled, and when very few show up let the US decide who is at fault, who is insulting who.

I think 50% of us would see not showing up as another insult to our country, and again these athlete millionaires would have lost the PR battle, coming across as spoiled whiners.

Instead he is afraid of anything that would challenge his self centered concept that he is superior to everyone else. His fear that the crowd who comes to his inauguration is smaller and the those who come to his parties are fewer. In the process he reveals his deceitfulness.

Now everyone except for the most rabid Trump supporter will see this as Trump insulting the NFL, the Eagles, and their fans.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So what! If he doesn't cancel it then it isn't on him. 50% of the country would condemn the Eagles. This is the act of someone with a brittle, fragile ego who lacks self esteem.

Now everyone except for the most rabid Trump supporter will see this as Trump insulting the NFL, the Eagles, and their fans.

On the contrary, only the most rabid Trump hater will see what Trump did for all the Eagles' fans who came was anything but classy, honorable, respectful, and patriotic.

Perhaps the courageous Nick Foles showed up. Unfortunately the progressive, liberal left has never been tolerant of those who disagree, and Nick's career with the Eagles may be over.

Trump Derangement Syndrome -- blinded by hate, deceived by the Press.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, that is true. But if they are free, then so are the owners to hire them or not. The complaint that they have to hire these players is really pathetic.

What a breath of fresh air seeing a little common sense on this thread!


Yeah Z!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, that is true. But if they are free, then so are the owners to hire them or not. The complaint that they have to hire these players is really pathetic.

So then the players can decide if their cause is worth losing that big paycheck or not.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So then the players can decide if their cause is worth losing that big paycheck or not.

Besides being a great athlete, Michael Jordan is a shrewd business man. He was often criticized by his own people for being silent on controversial political topics, but he made lots of money off endorsements. His response was classic -- "Republicans buy shoes too."


Not even the courts will be able to help Colon Kapernick. I just read that he will attempt to subpoena Trump to testify. Good luck with that.

Poor, poor Kapernick! Another Christian son brought down by a pretty girl. And a Muslam too. I hope he did not have to give up his faith for her love. He should have read the Proverbs.

A beautiful woman who lacks discretion is like a gold ring in a pig’s snout. (11.22)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Poor, poor Kapernick! Another Christian son brought down by a pretty girl. And a Muslam too. I hope he did not have to give up his faith for her love. He should have read the Proverbs.

A beautiful woman who lacks discretion is like a gold ring in a pig’s snout. (11.22)

LOL! Kaepernick may have his problems, women included (don't we all). But I think he's earnest in his causes ... and his paying for it ... but not happy about it.

Maybe he should become a preacher. If done right, there's big money in the racket too. And he could take a knee at every sermon.

Problem solved.

[awareness]

Trump is literally killing fake news :

Trump's tariff on Canadian newsprint is killing US newspapers, Republicans warn
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...publicans-warn

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So then the players can decide if their cause is worth losing that big paycheck or not.

That is the way real civil rights leaders act.

[Ohio]

G-7 Summit -- Pictures are worth a thousand words!







It seems to me that President Trump is merely following good presidential precedent with his performance at the recent G-7 summit. Richard Nixon called Pierre Trudeau an “asshole.” President Reagan slammed Trudeau in one of the private sessions of the G-7 (in 1983, if memory serves correctly), because it was obvious that Trudeau was trying to channel his spirit animal, Olaf Palme. So Trump’s belittling of the eminently belittleable Justin Trudeau seems just fine.


And as for Trump’s proposal that the G-7 become one big completely free trade zone, with no tariffs or trade barriers on anything, why that’s as silly as Reagan’s “Zero Option” for intermediate-range nuclear weapons in Europe! We all know how that silly idea turned out. -- Steven Hayward

[Ohio]

How Houston Lost Its Mind Over a Trump Shirt

After reading this article, I tried to be a little sympathetic towards this Councilwoman, but then again what she did to those young girls was wrong on so many counts.

Perhaps other Trump haters will read this and begin to understand what the other side goes thru.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How Houston Lost Its Mind Over a Trump Shirt

After reading this article, I tried to be a little sympathetic towards this Councilwoman, but then again what she did to those young girls was wrong on so many counts.

Perhaps other Trump haters will read this and begin to understand what the other side goes thru.

The world has lost its mind. Donald Trump says something in private to one person, it is played on the TV for the entire world, now some woman is screaming something that even Trump probably wouldn't have screamed in that setting. But hey, she is quoting him. We will be judged for every word we speak, even if we are quoting the President. What is really through the looking glass is you respond to a Trump shirt by giving one of his most memorable quotes and the Trump supporter thinks they are about to be attacked by a mob. Sounds ironic.

[Evangelical]

Wow, I never realized USA and NK have the SAME FLAG COLORS (even the same shades, coincidence?) and look so well together. Both have stars and stripes. The start of a beautiful friendship I think.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Wow, I never realized USA and NK have the SAME FLAG COLORS (even the same shades, coincidence?) and look so well together. Both have stars and stripes. The start of a beautiful friendship I think.

Matching flags? It's a sign! Little rocket man and the dotard are about to enter a bromance of epic proportions. Have you heard the one about what happens when two liars walk into a room? The dotard wants a Nobel Peace Prize to hang in the Trump Tower. Kim wants to run with the big guys. They're quite alike actually. How absurd that the world revolves around the fragile egos of infantile men like these. Oh well, it's better than when they were slinging insults at each other like petulant children.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Wow, I never realized USA and NK have the SAME FLAG COLORS (even the same shades, coincidence?) and look so well together. Both have stars and stripes. The start of a beautiful friendship I think.

Who knows what will come out of the two dictators getting together? They're both liars, so how can they trust each other?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The world has lost its mind. Donald Trump says something in private to one person, it is played on the TV for the entire world, now some woman is screaming something that even Trump probably wouldn't have screamed in that setting. But hey, she is quoting him. We will be judged for every word we speak, even if we are quoting the President. What is really through the looking glass is you respond to a Trump shirt by giving one of his most memorable quotes and the Trump supporter thinks they are about to be attacked by a mob. Sounds ironic.

This pathetic Councilwoman was not "quoting Trump" when she changes pronouns and directs her wrath at 13 yo girls standing in line at a ice cream stand, but that's just too hard for some folks to understand.

Trump also called pro football players who protest our national anthem sob's. So in your twisted thinking some crazy is "quoting Trump" when he goes to the girls soccer game down the road screaming at them all "you sob's."

Watching today's media makes everybody crazy. It's planned that way. It's a culture "war" for a reason. When DiNero stands at the awards ceremony in NYC and shouts "F Trump," is he just acting or has he lost his mind?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This pathetic Councilwoman was not "quoting Trump" when she changes pronouns and directs her wrath at 13 yo girls standing in line at a ice cream stand, but that's just too hard for some folks to understand.

Trump also called pro football players who protest our national anthem sob's. So in your twisted thinking some crazy is "quoting Trump" when he goes to the girls soccer game down the road screaming at them all "you sob's."

Watching today's media makes everybody crazy. It's planned that way. It's a culture "war" for a reason. When DiNero stands at the awards ceremony in NYC and shouts "F Trump," is he just acting or has he lost his mind?

Yes, in this twisted, mixed up world if Trump says this to someone it is justified, and if the recipients of his vulgarity respond in kind the same people who justified Trump condemn them. I imagine that no woman would want this expression directed at them from this man. I am condemning both of them, and I think this story shows how offensive and threatening this comment is, even if it is from a middle aged woman with small children in tow who is out numbered 4:1. But it illustrates the word in the Bible that you don't overcome evil with evil.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, in this twisted, mixed up world if Trump says this to someone it is justified, and if the recipients of his vulgarity respond in kind the same people who justified Trump condemn them. I imagine that no woman would want this expression directed at them from this man. I am condemning both of them, and I think this story shows how offensive and threatening this comment is, even if it is from a middle aged woman with small children in tow who is out numbered 4:1. But it illustrates the word in the Bible that you don't overcome evil with evil.

There is no justification whatsoever to repeat "jock bragging" spoken privately long before Trump ever ran for office. Neither is there any evidence that Trump's flippant brags ever actually were carried out.

Sorry you hate the guy, but don't lose your head over it.

The media protected Obama from all his past sins, while megaphoning all of Trumps. Unfortunately lefties refuse to acknowledge this. Slowly the independents are seeing thru the massive smear machine.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There is no justification whatsoever to repeat "jock bragging" spoken privately long before Trump ever ran for office. Neither is there any evidence that Trump's flippant brags ever actually were carried out.

Is there a verse that you base this on? Just so I have it straight, it is OK for him to brag to others that he assaults women sexually because he has never been convicted of this crime.

But it is unconscionable that a woman would repeat this to these four girls who are promoting his candidacy. The fact that there is no evidence that this woman ever assaulted anyone sexually is no longer relevant.

Sounds very two faced to me.

I prefer the Bible:

Ps 18:26 With the pure thou wilt show thyself pure; And with the perverse thou wilt show thyself froward.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I prefer the Bible:

Ps 18:26 With the pure thou wilt show thyself pure; And with the perverse thou wilt show thyself froward.

I prefer the Bible too.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I prefer the Bible too.

Oddly ... me too. It may contain crazy, and even make crazy ... but my world today seems crazier.

[zeek]

"I find it very strange that President Trump has such a hard time getting along with the leaders of the world's major democracies, but feels very comfortable with despots and authoritarian leaders."
-Bernie Sanders

[ZNPaaneah]

I do not agree with the pundits saying that Trump gave away too much and was played by Kim.

If in fact he has moved the negotiations into his world of real estate development, then Trump will win. This is dependent on the idea that Kim wants to be a playboy dictator with billions pouring in, living a life hobnobbing with movie stars and NBA stars, and be cheered wherever he goes as a rock star. It seems more likely to me that Trump's temptation will have more traction with him than the sales pitch of the left (transition to Democracy, give up your Nukes and trust us, we won't have you killed).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I do not agree with the pundits saying that Trump gave away too much and was played by Kim.

If in fact he has moved the negotiations into his world of real estate development, then Trump will win. This is dependent on the idea that Kim wants to be a playboy dictator with billions pouring in, living a life hobnobbing with movie stars and NBA stars, and be cheered wherever he goes as a rock star. It seems more likely to me that Trump's temptation will have more traction with him than the sales pitch of the left (transition to Democracy, give up your Nukes and trust us, we won't have you killed).

I had that thought too -- Trump has baited Kim with some vain glory -- not just in NoKo -- but on the world's stage.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

"I find it very strange that President Trump has such a hard time getting along with the leaders of the world's major democracies, but feels very comfortable with despots and authoritarian leaders."
-Bernie Sanders

Ole Bernie is a class "act." He gets screwed by Hilary and the DNC, so he attacks Trump.

Just last week Perez at the DNC stuck it to Bernie again.

Lock them up for what they did to Burlington College.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I had that thought too -- Trump has baited Kim with some vain glory -- not just in NoKo -- but on the world's stage.

Right, Trump hit Kim with the old Bait and Switch con game, something he has years of experience with. How long before he starts saying that Kim is not keeping his part of the deal?

Trump threw South Korea and the U.S. military under the bus by agreeing to halt military exercises without consulting or even informing them in advance. No problem. Trump will likely find fault with North Korea's compliance with the agreement in time for the military to go forward as scheduled.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Ole Bernie is a class "act." He gets screwed by Hilary and the DNC, so he attacks Trump.

Just last week Perez at the DNC stuck it to Bernie again.

Lock them up for what they did to Burlington College.

People that think like you always want to lock people up. That's why the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

People that think like you always want to lock people up. That's why the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world because of its diversity due to immigration. Other nations are much more homogeneous. It's also common for many European countries to hide their exploding crime rates due to immigrant populations that refuse to assimilate.

It goes both ways. Funny how you want Trump impeached without reason.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump threw South Korea and the U.S. military under the bus by agreeing to halt military exercises without consulting or even informing them in advance. No problem. Trump will likely find fault with North Korea's compliance with the agreement in time for the military to go forward as scheduled.

What? How is suspending war games throwing them under the bus? He didn't cut their budget, didn't scale back, didn't reduce our military or our strength. Now we have a card we can play at any time "resumption of war games". In the meantime we save a tremendous amount of money.

Also, I imagine the US can now play these war games on computer simulations with reasonable results.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

People that think like you always want to lock people up. That's why the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

I am well aware of our incarceration rate and am very sure it is not due to locking up elite political operatives.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am well aware of our incarceration rate and am very sure it is not due to locking up elite political operatives.

Perhaps if a few of our crooked politicians got locked up, there would be a "trickle down" effect. What do you think ZNP?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world because of its diversity due to immigration. Other nations are much more homogeneous. It's also common for many European countries to hide their exploding crime rates due to immigrant populations that refuse to assimilate.

It goes both ways. Funny how you want Trump impeached without reason.

Funny how you just make stuff up to support your biases. A disproportionate percentage of the incarcerated in America are Black Americans not immigrants. But, i guess from your white nationalist POV, black Americans are immigrants.

There are plenty of reasons to impeach Trump beginning with his flagrant, repeated violations of emoluments clause of the Constitution the most recent and glaring example of which is by making a deal with Beijing over Chinese telecommunications company ZTE.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am well aware of our incarceration rate and am very sure it is not due to locking up elite political operatives.

Well, that's not what I stated, so, so what?

[Ohio]

Nobody likes to be left out ...

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Nobody likes to be left out ...

Trump's little meeting with Kim was historical not historic. Something that is historical is simply something that happened in the past, regardless of its significance. As William Safire once said, “Any past event is historical, but only the most memorable ones are historic.”

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump's little meeting with Kim was historical not historic. Something that is historical is simply something that happened in the past, regardless of its significance. As William Safire once said, “Any past event is historical, but only the most memorable ones are historic.”

Maybe historic for Kim. Trump is supposed to be some expert deal maker but in this instance Kim got what he wanted and Trump got nothing solid.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Funny how you just make stuff up to support your biases. A disproportionate percentage of the incarcerated in America are Black Americans not immigrants. But, i guess from your white nationalist POV, black Americans are immigrants.

There are plenty of reasons to impeach Trump beginning with his flagrant, repeated violations of emoluments clause of the Constitution the most recent and glaring example of which is by making a deal with Beijing over Chinese telecommunications company ZTE.

Black Americans are immigrants. Haven't you heard?

[Ohio]

Have you heard the latest liberal talking points?

All those who support Trump are part of a cult.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Maybe historic for Kim. Trump is supposed to be some expert deal maker but in this instance Kim got what he wanted and Trump got nothing solid.

Right. Trump, by meeting with him, legitimized Kim Jong-un , one of the worst violators of human rights in the world today. Nice work, dotard.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Black Americans are immigrants. Haven't you heard?

Maybe, according to your twisted White Nationalist assessment.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you heard the latest liberal talking points?

All those who support Trump are part of a cult.

That makes you a two time cult member. Why am I not surprised?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Maybe, according to your twisted White Nationalist assessment.

You're a racist.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Maybe historic for Kim. Trump is supposed to be some expert deal maker . . .

Or the Art of the Deal Breaker.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You're a racist.

Nah. Race is an illusion that you believe in. Sad.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

Right. Trump, by meeting with him, legitimized Kim Jong-un , one of the worst violators of human rights in the world today. Nice work, dotard.

Meeting itself, not so bad, but it's all the unnecessary praise is the problem. It has upset the North Koreans in Canada, doubly insulting Trudeau and praising Kim. Now that Trump has brought peace between the US and NK, Canadanian North Korea is now the biggest threat, I'd be looking at building a wall South AND North.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Meeting itself, not so bad, but it's all the unnecessary praise is the problem. It has upset the North Koreans in Canada, doubly insulting Trudeau and praising Kim. Now that Trump has brought peace between the US and NK, Canadanian North Korea is now the biggest threat, I'd be looking at building a wall South AND North.

Did your phone scramble up your post? The US doesn't need to worry about war with or immigrants from Canada.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Meeting itself, not so bad, but it's all the unnecessary praise is the problem. It has upset the North Koreans in Canada, doubly insulting Trudeau and praising Kim. Now that Trump has brought peace between the US and NK, Canadanian North Korea is now the biggest threat, I'd be looking at building a wall South AND North.

What the heck is Canadanian North Korea?

That's now the biggest national security threat?

I think you better stick to Aussie politics.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What the heck is Canadanian North Korea?

That's now the biggest national security threat?

I think you better stick to Aussie politics.

North Koreans in Canada outraged at Donald Trump's praise of Kim Jong-un

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...actions-canada

Canada has destroyed the white house before. NK hasn't even set foot on American soil. I'd be worried about angry North Korean Canadians to the North.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

North Koreans in Canada outraged at Donald Trump's praise of Kim Jong-un

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...actions-canada

Canada has destroyed the white house before. NK hasn't even set foot on American soil. I'd be worried about angry North Korean Canadians to the North.

Thanks for the article and the clarification. Excuse me if I don't get worried about this.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Meeting itself, not so bad, but it's all the unnecessary praise is the problem. It has upset the North Koreans in Canada, doubly insulting Trudeau and praising Kim. Now that Trump has brought peace between the US and NK, Canadanian North Korea is now the biggest threat, I'd be looking at building a wall South AND North.

Trump? Friends with enemies ... enemy with friends.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Well, that's not what I stated, so, so what?

The mindset to lock up political leaders that commit crimes has no relationship to our incarceration rate, since people like Bagloyvich represent an infinitesimal fraction of our prison population. Trying to tie the two together is bogus.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Right. Trump, by meeting with him, legitimized Kim Jong-un , one of the worst violators of human rights in the world today. Nice work, dotard.

When Trump took office Obama told him that North Korea would be his biggest concern. NK began testing intercontinental ballistic missiles that could hit the US and large nuclear warheads. It was the closest we have been to a nuclear confrontation in years.

Now, a few months later NK attended the Olympics in SK, went to the summit, and have pledged in principal to denuclearize.

We have not insulted him, instead we are giving him the carrot of billions of dollars of investments flowing into the country for development projects. Any unbiased assessment would conclude that the situation with North Korea has improved dramatically, more than in the past 20-30 years.

Doesn't mean it will last, but it is a good first step towards improving relations.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The mindset to lock up political leaders that commit crimes has no relationship to our incarceration rate, since people like Bagloyvich represent an infinitesimal fraction of our prison population. Trying to tie the two together is bogus.

I didn't advocate what you're arguing against.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

When Trump took office Obama told him that North Korea would be his biggest concern. NK began testing intercontinental ballistic missiles that could hit the US and large nuclear warheads. It was the closest we have been to a nuclear confrontation in years.

Now, a few months later NK attended the Olympics in SK, went to the summit, and have pledged in principal to denuclearize.

We have not insulted him, instead we are giving him the carrot of billions of dollars of investments flowing into the country for development projects. Any unbiased assessment would conclude that the situation with North Korea has improved dramatically, more than in the past 20-30 years.

Doesn't mean it will last, but it is a good first step towards improving relations.

Talking is usually better than dropping bombs on each other. On the other hand making concessions unilaterally is a sign of weakness. Legitimating a cruel dictator based on vague promises is a recipe for failure. Reagan pursued peace through strength. Trump is pursuing peace through flattery. But then Reagan was a man of principles and Trump is a man of deceit. A bad tree can't bear good fruit. [Matt. 7:18]

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Talking is usually better than dropping bombs on each other. On the other hand making concessions unilaterally is a sign of weakness. Legitimating a cruel dictator based on vague promises is a recipe for failure. Reagan pursued peace through strength. Trump is pursuing peace through flattery. But then Reagan was a man of principles and Trump is a man of deceit. A bad tree can't bear good fruit. [Matt. 7:18]

Not so. The same progressive media that today condemns Trump also condemned an "unprincipled" Ronald Reagan using all the same condemnations.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not so. The same progressive media that today condemns Trump also condemned an "unprincipled" Ronald Reagan using all the same condemnations.

Nonsense.The media lauded Reagan as the great communicator. You're just looking at things in all or nothing terms again. Everything to you is either black or white there is no grays.

You were in the local church during the Reagan years. The local church thinks the only good people are in the local church. (They're not intrinsically good either but they have the spirit.) Everybody else is evil. The media is evil; politicians are evil, etc ad nauseum. If Donald Trump is evil he's no different than anyone else especially any politician. Good can only come when God the Puppet Master is pulling a person's strings like the evangelicals think God is doing to Trump now. Trump is acting out God's eternal purpose by bringing Armageddon. Tell me where I'm wrong.

[awareness]

This may be good news. Franklin might be coming to his senses :

Franklin Graham criticizes Trump policy of separating families at border
http://thehill.com/homenews/392104-f...lies-at-border

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Nonsense.The media lauded Reagan as the great communicator. You're just looking at things in all or nothing terms again. Everything to you is either black or white there is no grays.

You were in the local church during the Reagan years. The local church thinks the only good people are in the local church. (They're not intrinsically good either but they have the spirit.) Everybody else is evil. The media is evil; politicians are evil, etc ad nauseum. If Donald Trump is evil he's no different than anyone else especially any politician. Good can only come when God the Puppet Master is pulling a person's strings like the evangelicals think God is doing to Trump now. Trump is acting out God's eternal purpose by bringing Armageddon. Tell me where I'm wrong.

So many stereotypes and blatant errors in your comments, there is almost no place to begin. Your recollection of history needs some anti-dementia pills, perhaps Prevagen could help.

Concerning Pres. Reagan, here is just the first hit on my searcher ...

What They Said Then: How the Liberal Media Savaged Reagan

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So many stereotypes and blatant errors in your comments, there is almost no place to begin. Your recollection of history needs some anti-dementia pills, perhaps Prevagen could help.

Concerning Pres. Reagan, here is just the first hit on my searcher ...

What They Said Then: How the Liberal Media Savaged Reagan

No right wing bias on that website.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Talking is usually better than dropping bombs on each other. On the other hand making concessions unilaterally is a sign of weakness.

I think that is not fair, before even coming to the summit NK blew up testing facilities and made some concessions. Now it was our turn. Canceling war games seems like a very pleasant concession, we don't reduce our military strength and we can immediately resume them should things get worse, but if you are not on the verge of war why do you need these dress rehearsals?

Originally Posted by zeek

Legitimating a cruel dictator based on vague promises is a recipe for failure. Reagan pursued peace through strength. Trump is pursuing peace through flattery. But then Reagan was a man of principles and Trump is a man of deceit. A bad tree can't bear good fruit. [Matt. 7:18]

Again, this may or may not be true. No one came out and gave Kim the nobel peace prize, no one has claimed he hasn't committed human rights violations. But Saudi Arabia has, Kuwait has, Russia, China, etc. If you demand that we have a sinless leader before the US will talk to them that is an absurd position to take. Our biggest concern cannot be that he killed his brother, but rather that he might fire a nuclear missile. Signing an agreement to de nuclearize as a goal is obviously the first step.

We did not lift any sanctions, instead we said we would begin the process. This allows us to say "in exchange for lifting this we need you to do that".

There is a key principle in negotiating when you hit an impasse like we did with North Korea, it is not tit for tat, but rather give them two things for one thing. That will often get the reconciliation resumed.

[zeek]

BREAKING NEWS
New York is suing the Trump foundation, accusing it of vast lawbreaking. It wants to bar the president and his children from serving on charities.

The New York State attorney general’s office filed a scathingly worded lawsuit on Thursday taking aim at the Donald J. Trump Foundation, accusing the charity and the Trump family of sweeping violations of campaign finance laws, self-dealing and illegal coordination with the presidential campaign.

The lawsuit, which seeks to dissolve the foundation and bar President Trump and three of his children from serving on the boards of nonprofits, was an extraordinary rebuke of a sitting president.

The State of New York is doing the work of Congress which should be in the process of impeaching Trump on these grounds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.105ce95832d6

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

No right wing bias on that website.

That's your answer? I soundly refute your statements, filled with videos and recorded statements from notable media figures, and you dismiss it as bias.

It's all a game with you.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

The State of New York is doing the work of Congress which should be in the process of impeaching Trump on these grounds.

Didn't that NY Atty General resign after being exposed for sexual assault?

How is this not progressive bias?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Didn't that NY Atty General resign after being exposed for sexual assault?

How is this not progressive bias?

How is using a charitable Foundation to finance your election campaign not corrupt? I don't care what you call it progressive or conservative it's wrong.

[Ohio]

Muller throws Manafort in prison, revoking bail, to divert attention from the Dept. of Justice Inspector General's report released yesterday.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Muller throws Manafort in prison, revoking bail, to divert attention from the Dept. of Justice Inspector General's report released yesterday.

If you follow the news you knew this was coming for days because Manafort allegedly tampered with Witnesses.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

If you follow the news you knew this was coming for days because Manafort allegedly tampered with Witnesses.

We both know that Muller's goal is to make Manafort "sing and compose" new stories.

Both Muller and his prosecutors (lookup Andrew Weissmann) have a long and checkered history of prosecutorial abuse.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

How is using a charitable Foundation to finance your election campaign not corrupt? I don't care what you call it progressive or conservative it's wrong.

I totally agree.

That's what the Clinton Foundation was established for, soliciting big money from around the globe for future favors.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I totally agree.

That's what the Clinton Foundation was established for, soliciting big money from around the globe for future favors.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

That was a problem for Clinton and would have been a bigger one for her had she become President. I don't remember that she was indicted for writing checks from her foundation to pay her bills or fund her campaign, however. I'm sure if she was, you'll tell me. That would not, however, erase Trump's crimes. He, not Hillary, is President now, you might notice.

[Ohio]

Rogue FBI agent echoes Hilary's disparaging comments about those who support President Trump:

FBI Employee: “All the people who were initially voting for her would not, and were not, swayed by any decision the FBI put out. Trump’s supporters are all poor to middle class, uneducated, lazy POS that think he will magically grant them jobs for doing nothing. They probably didn’t watch the debates, aren’t fully educated on his policies, and are stupidly wrapped up in his unmerited enthusiasm.”

I've received the same vibes on this forum about myself.

Basket of deplorables anyone?

Thanks. Just in time for the Midterm elections to stir up all these "uneducated, lazy POS" voters to go to the polls and vote. Can't make this stuff up folks.

#RED WAVE

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Rogue FBI agent echoes Hilary's disparaging comments about those who support President Trump:
I've received the same vibes on this forum about myself.

Basket of deplorables anyone?

Thanks. Just in time for the Midterm elections to stir up all these "uneducated, lazy POS" voters to go to the polls and vote. Can't make this stuff up folks.

#RED WAVE

That FBI employee apparently doesn't understand Trump supporters any better than you and Michael E. Young understand "The Left".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

That FBI employee apparently doesn't understand Trump supporters any better than you and Michael E. Young understand "The Left".

It's not wrong not to understand. It can lead to a better understanding and dialog. I was once on the left, so I might understand better than you might think.

The attitude of these FBI agents is not unique. He probably does understand, but just hates them, just like Hilary. This arrogant, hateful attitude is on display at every Hollywood awards show, every late night comedy show, every media outlet except Fox, every street protest, Pelosi and Schumer, etc. I see it all the time.

As has been said, the right views the left as just "wrong," but the left views the right as just "evil." This says a lot. If the right is "evil" then the left is justified in any action they take, because we all "know" that Trump is the evil Hitler and should be assassinated. Today.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's not wrong not to understand. It can lead to a better understanding and dialog. I was once on the left, so I might understand better than you might think.

The attitude of these FBI agents is not unique. He probably does understand, but just hates them, just like Hilary. This arrogant, hateful attitude is on display at every Hollywood awards show, every late night comedy show, every media outlet except Fox, every street protest, Pelosi and Schumer, etc. I see it all the time.

As has been said, the right views the left as just "wrong," but the left views the right as just "evil." This says a lot. If the right is "evil" then the left is justified in any action they take, because we all "know" that Trump is the evil Hitler and should be assassinated. Today.

As if there aren't people on the Right that feel the same way towards the Left. Who are you kidding me or yourself?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's not wrong not to understand. It can lead to a better understanding and dialog. I was once on the left, so I might understand better than you might think.

The attitude of these FBI agents is not unique. He probably does understand, but just hates them, just like Hilary. This arrogant, hateful attitude is on display at every Hollywood awards show, every late night comedy show, every media outlet except Fox, every street protest, Pelosi and Schumer, etc. I see it all the time.

As has been said, the right views the left as just "wrong," but the left views the right as just "evil." This says a lot. If the right is "evil" then the left is justified in any action they take, because we all "know" that Trump is the evil Hitler and should be assassinated. Today.

There are 35,000 people employed by the FBI, I imagine we could find two out of these 35,000 that have just about any political bent. I don't buy the idea that a tweet between two FBI agents indicates that the FBI as a whole has this attitude.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There are 35,000 people employed by the FBI, I imagine we could find two out of these 35,000 that have just about any political bent. I don't buy the idea that a tweet between two FBI agents indicates that the FBI as a whole has this attitude.

No one ever said that, rather DC HQ has promoted certain idealogues to top level positions. Ones like Comey, McCabe, Page, and Strzok did all they could to exonerate Hilary and at the same time frame Trump. The DOJ IG identified 5 rotten FBI agents.

You are a forensics guy. Use your skills to dig into the facts.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

As if there aren't people on the Right that feel the same way towards the Left. Who are you kidding me or yourself?

The animus on the Left is Ten fold greater.

If the LEFT didn't have double standards, it would have no standards at all!

[awareness]

Jeff Sessions uses Romans 13:1 to justify separating immigrant children from their parents at the border:

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

But he fails to read on to Romans 13:10 :

Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Jeff Sessions uses Romans 13:1 to justify separating immigrant children from their parents at the border:

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

But he fails to read on to Romans 13:10 :

Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Yes, Sessions touched off a nerve among Evangelical pastors with the slightest ounce of compassion for children. This kind of cruelty can scar a child emotionally for the rest of their lives. Surely there's kinder gentler way to protect the border without harming children. Trump's wall trump's family values. And then to scapegoat the Democrats for his cruel action is a cowardly ploy to avoid taking responsibility. Trump is a disgrace to the values of this nation. Throw the bum out!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Yes, Sessions touched off a nerve among Evangelical pastors with the slightest ounce of compassion for children. This kind of cruelty can scar a child emotionally for the rest of their lives. Surely there's kinder gentler way to protect the border without harming children. Trump's wall trump's family values. And then to scapegoat the Democrats for his cruel action is a cowardly ploy to avoid taking responsibility. Trump is a disgrace to the values of this nation. Throw the bum out!

I know there's an emoluments clause in the constitution, that can be used to toss a president out ... but is a moral clause missing, that could throw one out?

Even Session's own church denounced him. Not to mention the all in Trump supporter, Franklin Graham.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Yes, Sessions touched off a nerve among Evangelical pastors with the slightest ounce of compassion for children. This kind of cruelty can scar a child emotionally for the rest of their lives. Surely there's kinder gentler way to protect the border without harming children. Trump's wall trump's family values. And then to scapegoat the Democrats for his cruel action is a cowardly ploy to avoid taking responsibility. Trump is a disgrace to the values of this nation. Throw the bum out!

The laws here were established during the Obama administration, and the media never attaked him for border policies.

The US has become a nanny state for the whole world.

If you don't like US border policy, perhaps it's best to stay home. What's so bad about these Central American countries? Americans want to vacation and move there.

The media plastered that photo of kids sleeping in "cages" and then we find out it was taken in 2014 during the Obama admin -- fake news to smear Trump -- the guy you guys love to hate.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

This may be good news. Franklin might be coming to his senses :

Franklin Graham criticizes Trump policy of separating families at border
http://thehill.com/homenews/392104-f...lies-at-border

Franklin Graham is not an evangelist like his father, but a political figure.

He condemn the politicians of the last 30 years for these failures -- all of which promised border security, but delivered nothing.

It's a farce to watch lefties demonstrate fake concern for these immigrants, when all they really want is more votes.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The laws here were established during the Obama administration, and the media never attaked him for border policies.

The US has become a nanny state for the whole world.

If you don't like US border policy, perhaps it's best to stay home. What's so bad about these Central American countries? Americans want to vacation and move there.

The media plastered that photo of kids sleeping in "cages" and then we find out it was taken in 2014 during the Obama admin -- fake news to smear Trump -- the guy you guys love to hate.

I reject your characterization of "The Media" as a monolithic entity. Think of it as kind of like Trump's rejection of global liberal democracy. So, your "the media never..." is a false statement on its face.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Franklin Graham is not an evangelist like his father, but a political figure.

He condemns the politicians of the last 30 years for these failures -- all of which promised border security, but delivered nothing.

It's a farce to watch lefties demonstrate fake concern for these immigrants, when all they really want is more votes.

Right. Graham is a political actor. He's a white nationalist like Trump. "Blame the Libtards." Trump is using a policy of cruelty toward children and families to force Congress to act. He's cunning and he has no scuples about hurting people to get his way.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Yes, Sessions touched off a nerve among Evangelical pastors with the slightest ounce of compassion for children. This kind of cruelty can scar a child emotionally for the rest of their lives. Surely there's kinder gentler way to protect the border without harming children. Trump's wall trump's family values. And then to scapegoat the Democrats for his cruel action is a cowardly ploy to avoid taking responsibility. Trump is a disgrace to the values of this nation. Throw the bum out!

Typical Progressive hit job on Trump exposes hypocrisy of the LEFT.

PHOTOS: Inside Shelter for Illegal Alien Children Separated from Parents …Taught Hygiene, how to flush toilet, brush teeth…field trips to local museums, parks, zoo

The Department of Health and Human Services hosted Breitbart News and other media on a tour of a facility in El Cajon, California, on Friday where migrant children are being sheltered after being separated from their parents.

The children are separated from their parents — or, to be precise, from the adults accompanying them, who may or may not be their parents — when their parents cross the southern U.S. border illegally and are caught and detained.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I reject your characterization of "The Media" as a monolithic entity. Think of it as kind of like Trump's rejection of global liberal democracy. So, your "the media never..." is a false statement on its face.

Technically perhaps, but so many folks see the homogeneous "main stream media" as a monolithic entity that my characterization is accurate.

It's so typical of this forum so constantly dredge up exceptions to redefine the "rule." Case in point: using Franklin Graham to characterize all Christians.

Like it or not, it is what it is.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Right. Graham is a political actor. He's a white nationalist like Trump. "Blame the Libtards." Trump is using a policy of cruelty toward children and families to force Congress to act. He's cunning and he has no scruples (sic) about hurting people to get his way.

Complete lies.

This post is Ten-fold all the condemnations you aim at me.

So dastardly of you Liberal Progressives to condemn Trump for all the horrific policies he inherited from your idol Yobama.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Complete lies.

This post is Ten-fold all the condemnations you aim at me.

So dastardly of you Liberal Progressives to condemn Trump for all the horrific policies he inherited from your idol Yobama.

You've bought Trump's lie and added to it another, i.e. that I idolize Obama. Obama is a fallible human being like everybody else. Trump wouldn't be President if there weren't weaknesses among his opponents. But, I understand. Trump lies so much it's impossible to keep up. Like yesterday when Trump called James Comey's behavior "criminal" a day after a Justice Department report that made no accusation of criminal wrongdoing.

Dastardly of Fascist White Nationalists to blame the Libtards for their actions. But, typical, and deliberate. Trump never takes responsibility for the negative consequences of his actions. And you're apparently one with him on this point.

Trump is breaking up children and families in order to provoke Congress into passing immigration legislation. That would be a big win for him.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump is breaking up children and families in order to provoke Congress into passing immigration legislation. That would be a big win for him.

Let me see you take your children to any country on earth and break in.

You will be in jail and the children will be taken somewhere else. If you are lucky.

Liberalism is a progressive brain disorder, a mental health condition. Perhaps a lobotomy would help. That's what they did in Camelot.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Franklin Graham is not an evangelist like his father, but a political figure.

He condemn the politicians of the last 30 years for these failures -- all of which promised border security, but delivered nothing.

It's a farce to watch lefties demonstrate fake concern for these immigrants, when all they really want is more votes.

Oh c'mon bro Ohio. Do you have children? No parent can have no sympathy with children being separated from their mother and father. That empathy has nothing to do with liberalism, or voters.

Why do you need these straw men?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh c'mon bro Ohio. Do you have children? No parent can have no sympathy with children being separated from their mother and father. That empathy has nothing to do with liberalism, or voters.
Why do you need these straw men?

Hey awareness. I think I'll commit a crime today because no empathetic judge will ever separate me from my children.

Have you lost your brains? Liberalism rhymes with dementia?

Any idea how man men and women are in prison today ... separated from their children for committing crimes.

Stay home with your children!!!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Jeff Sessions uses Romans 13:1 to justify separating immigrant children from their parents at the border:

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

But he fails to read on to Romans 13:10 :

Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I think a much more appropriate reference is the case of two women coming before Solomon claiming the baby is their baby.

There is a special case for people seeking US citizenship. They can jump to the front of the line if they are claiming asylum. But how do you know if their life is truly in danger or is this just a lie so they can jump in front of the line? Well, if you felt that your child would be killed if you return you would certainly stick to your story even if it meant being separated from your child, just as what happened in the case with Solomon.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think a much more appropriate reference is the case of two women coming before Solomon claiming the baby is their baby.

There is a special case for people seeking US citizenship. They can jump to the front of the line if they are claiming asylum. But how do you know if their life is truly in danger or is this just a lie so they can jump in front of the line? Well, if you felt that your child would be killed if you return you would certainly stick to your story even if it meant being separated from your child, just as what happened in the case with Solomon.

Now it all makes sense!!

The border is now inundated with naughty children who got disciplined by their parents back in Central America and are now seeking asylum to get away from them. That's why they are happy to be separated at the border.

Kids are smart. They got social media. They are playing the system.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hey awareness. I think I'll commit a crime today because no empathetic judge will ever separate me from my children.

False equivalency ... and smacks of whataboutism.

Are you forgetting Romans 13:10, or just ignoring it? Cuz I know you know what I mean.

You're support for separating children just makes Trumpians, and the Kool-Aid drinking Republicans, look hateful and ultimately, inhumanely coldhearted.

That's okay, they'll pay for it at the mid-terms.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think a much more appropriate reference is the case of two women coming before Solomon claiming the baby is their baby.

There is a special case for people seeking US citizenship. They can jump to the front of the line if they are claiming asylum. But how do you know if their life is truly in danger or is this just a lie so they can jump in front of the line? Well, if you felt that your child would be killed if you return you would certainly stick to your story even if it meant being separated from your child, just as what happened in the case with Solomon.

Since we're quoting Sessions, and Romans, I can't fault your fetishism of the Bible. Obviously, Sessions has the same fetish.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Now it all makes sense!!

The border is now inundated with naughty children who got disciplined by their parents back in Central America and are now seeking asylum to get away from them. That's why they are happy to be separated at the border.

Kids are smart. They got social media. They are playing the system.

This is not a joke, being a refuge from persecution is a foundation of our country. But it is reasonable to be wise as serpents

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is not a joke, being a refuge from persecution is a foundation of our country. But it is reasonable to be wise as serpents

There's been many news reports that these refugees are NOT fleeing from their own government for religious or ethnic persecution, but are escaping local crime, spousal abuse, vandalism, burglary, etc.

Using these same criteria, residents of Chicago, IL could also apply for asylum in the USA. I can't say I'd blame them.

Perhaps the residents of all of these California Sanctuary Cities will soon be going to the border and seek asylum in safer states like Ohio. Perhaps they will decide to take their children to the border in Texas, because they can get a better education there than in the Los Angeles public school system.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Since we're quoting Sessions, and Romans, I can't fault your fetishism of the Bible. Obviously, Sessions has the same fetish.

Why is quoting the Bible a "fetish?"

Do you have a fetishism for Daily Mail since you quote them so often?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

False equivalency ... and smacks of whataboutism.

Are you forgetting Romans 13:10, or just ignoring it? Cuz I know you know what I mean.

You're support for separating children just makes Trumpians, and the Kool-Aid drinking Republicans, look hateful and ultimately, inhumanely coldhearted.

That's okay, they'll pay for it at the mid-terms.

I am only supporting the rule of Law from the Obama era, but you like to blame everything on Trump these days. You blamed Bush too for 8 years after he left office.

I don't have a Bible "fetish," so I did not read that verse.

I find it amazing that you all of a sudden care for children at the border. Pangs of guilt perhaps?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why is quoting the Bible a "fetish?"

Do you have a fetishism for Daily Mail since you quote them so often?

He is jealous of anyone who has the word of God as a lamp unto their path.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why is quoting the Bible a "fetish?"

Do you have a fetishism for Daily Mail since you quote them so often?

Out here it looks like you are always trying to reference everything to the Bible, even modern science. That's a fetish.

Sessions obviously also has that same sort of fetish, or he wouldn't be quoting scripture to justify is atrocious heartless actions.

But America has a long history of using the Bible to support atrocities against others (usually of color). They used it to support genocide against the first nation peoples, also separating their children, and the same for slavery ... they separated children then too.

And Christians that support such actions aren't Christians, but in name only = CINO's.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And Christians that support such actions aren't Christians, but in name only = CINO's.

And you, as moderator of the great alt-views, alone possesses authority to decide who are CINO's and who are real Christians.

You truly are the Moderator Of The Age!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Out here it looks like you are always trying to reference everything to the Bible, even modern science. That's a fetish.

Sessions obviously also has that same sort of fetish, or he wouldn't be quoting scripture to justify is atrocious heartless actions.

But America has a long history of using the Bible to support atrocities against others (usually of color). They used it to support genocide against the first nation peoples, also separating their children, and the same for slavery ... they separated children then too.

And Christians that support such actions aren't Christians, but in name only = CINO's.

Talking about heartless atrocities, could anything be worse than Solomon cutting that baby in half and giving one of the halves back to its mother? Yet that is how he was able to determine which one was lying and which one wasn't.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Talking about heartless atrocities, could anything be worse than Solomon cutting that baby in half and giving one of the halves back to its mother? Yet that is how he was able to determine which one was lying and which one wasn't.

LOL ... rotflmao ....

But they were harlots ... like the children coming over the border, that are also rapists.

Motif (folkloristics)
Child Custody - folktales of Aarne-Thompson-Uther type 926
https://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0926.html

[awareness]

Exercising my fetish again.

'Other governments separated mothers and children': Former CIA director is slammed for comparing Trump's immigration policy to that used by the Nazis during the Holocaust
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...i-Germany.html

[Evangelical]

America is doing it wrong. The parents and the children should be in jail together. That's the best possible outcome, to stop illegal migration. In other countries, in SE Asia, Australia, it works! The problem with keeping children out of jail is that the mothers or fathers might be willing to go to jail for the interests of their child, knowing they are cared for by foster care etc. It's a sacrifice most parents would be willing to make. Putting the child in jail as well solves that problem, keeps them together, easier to process them as a family. The parents can protect them, and the children can play with other children.

When I say "jail", I don't mean supermax. They have toys, they have play areas, they get fed, clothed, free education, medical, all the essentials they need. Most of all they keep their family and community intact. Especially if they are from a tribal culture like the middle east, family is everything.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

America is doing it wrong. The parents and the children should be in jail together. That's the best possible outcome, to stop illegal migration. In other countries, in SE Asia, Australia, it works! The problem with keeping children out of jail is that the mothers or fathers might be willing to go to jail for the interests of their child, knowing they are cared for by foster care etc. It's a sacrifice most parents would be willing to make. Putting the child in jail as well solves that problem, keeps them together, easier to process them as a family. The parents can protect them, and the children can play with other children.

When I say "jail", I don't mean supermax. They have toys, they have play areas, they get fed, clothed, free education, medical, all the essentials they need. Most of all they keep their family and community intact. Especially if they are from a tribal culture like the middle east, family is everything.

Hear! Hear! The voice or reason, and of heart.

[zeek]

Yes, good one, Evangelical. On Blog "Grace Under Fire" in the Christian Post writer asks if Jeff Sessions is a dominionist and cautions against fascist fusing of church and state. http://blogs.christianpost.com/grace...d-state-30047/

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Yes, good one, Evangelical. On Blog "Grace Under Fire" in the Christian Post writer asks if Jeff Sessions is a dominionist and cautions against fascist fusing of church and state. http://blogs.christianpost.com/grace...d-state-30047/

Is anyone going to talk about the main issue here? In 2015 asylum seekers in Europe grew exponentially, about 4 times more than the previous year, about 1.25 million, and that has continued to the present. In 2015 and 2016 they had 2.5 million seeking asylum. Although there are various reasons, without a doubt climate change is the reason for the huge increase.

So on the one hand Trump denies climate change, forbids the use of certain language by government agencies, but on the other hand they have a siege mentality, feeling that the US is about to be flooded with refugees from Climate change.

[zeek]

Laura Bush
‏
Verified account

@laurawbush

I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Laura Bush
‏
Verified account

@laurawbush

I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart.

It's also child abuse and a violation of human rights.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Is anyone going to talk about the main issue here? In 2015 asylum seekers in Europe grew exponentially, about 4 times more than the previous year, about 1.25 million, and that has continued to the present. In 2015 and 2016 they had 2.5 million seeking asylum. Although there are various reasons, without a doubt climate change is the reason for the huge increase.

So on the one hand Trump denies climate change, forbids the use of certain language by government agencies, but on the other hand they have a siege mentality, feeling that the US is about to be flooded with refugees from Climate change.

NATO and US wars, sanctions and destabilization caused the refugee crisis. The US meddled in the affairs of relatively stable dictatorships, causing much upheaval and unrest. Iraq led to ISIS, Syria led to the current situation, Libya, Yemen, so many other examples. This is really a replication of what occurred in South East Asia in the 60's, 70's. US actions leading to flood of refugees around the world.

Because the US played a major role in causing or worsening these situations, the US should be partly responsibility for the refugees.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

NATO and US wars, sanctions and destabilization caused the refugee crisis. The US meddled in the affairs of relatively stable dictatorships, causing much upheaval and unrest. Iraq led to ISIS, Syria led to the current situation, Libya, Yemen, so many other examples. This is really a replication of what occurred in South East Asia in the 60's, 70's. US actions leading to flood of refugees around the world.

In 2015? There has been a dramatic increase due to unprecedented climatic upheaval in Syria and other countries from where these refugees are coming from.

Stop being distracted by the children crying. The big story here is that the US government is lying about climate change saying there is nothing to see while at the same time preparing to be inundated with climate refugees. These kids, that is the tip of the iceberg.

Global insured losses from natural disasters hit $134bn in 2017: Aon Benfield https://www.reinsurancene.ws/global-...-aon-benfield/ The total estimated loss in property was about $350 bn. These people are losing their homes, farms, livelihood. We are talking about $200 bn in losses by people who were not insured and that is about 3xs the losses in 2016.

For example: Last September, the Bangladeshi government responded to weeks of torrential rain with a slew of statistics. They said 8 million people in 32 districts had been affected by floods, with 307,000 people staying in emergency shelters and 1,945 medical teams deployed. In addition, 103,855 houses had been destroyed, with a further 633,792 partially damaged, and 4,636 schools – and several hundred thousand acres of farm land – had been flooded.

[zeek]

Stephen Miller reportedly crafted Trump's cruel policy of separating migrant children from their parents at the border. http://www.businessinsider.com/who-i...nt=bufferfbd23

Even House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., who is an immigration hard-liner, told NPR's Mary Louise Kelly in an interview Monday for All Things Considered that he backs the changes to the administration's policy in the compromise bill. "We're hard at work on language right now to take care of this problem so that children can remain with their parents," Goodlatte said.

[ZNPaaneah]

“If Europe thinks they have a problem with migration today … wait 20 years,” said retired US military corps brigadier general Stephen Cheney. “See what happens when climate change drives people out of Africa – the Sahel [sub-Saharan area] especially – and we’re talking now not just one or two million, but 10 or 20 [million]. They are not going to south Africa, they are going across the Mediterranean.” (https://www.theguardian.com/environm...refugee-crisis)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

“If Europe thinks they have a problem with migration today … wait 20 years,” said retired US military corps brigadier general Stephen Cheney. “See what happens when climate change drives people out of Africa – the Sahel [sub-Saharan area] especially – and we’re talking now not just one or two million, but 10 or 20 [million]. They are not going to south Africa, they are going across the Mediterranean.” (https://www.theguardian.com/environm...refugee-crisis)

1,000 years ago they tried the same thing and we had the crusades.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Stephen Miller reportedly crafted Trump's cruel policy of separating migrant children from their parents at the border.

Thank God Trump has the guts to separate these children from the human traffickers and give them loving care, protection, and shelter.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thank God Trump has the guts to separate these children from the human traffickers and give them loving care, protection, and shelter.

The burden of proof is on the Trump Administration to show that is the case. If it were so they would have said so in the beginning. Instead they said that separating the children from their parents was deterrent. It looks like you believed another lie.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

The burden of proof is on the Trump Administration to show that is the case. If it were so they would have said so in the beginning. Instead they said that separating the children from their parents was deterrent. It looks like you believed another lie.

If the entire mainstream media is promoting the same narrative, it is by definition a deceptive lie.

I told you that the original picture, which ignited the controversy, was from 2014 under the Obama admin. Obviously you don't care. The media acts like these policies just begun, but have been going on for years. Notice the timing -- the Democrats had to distract our attention from the Kim Summit and the IG Report.

Amazingly, even Laura Bush chimed in, that is, until Sarah Sanders WH SpokesPerson reminded her that Dubya signed this legislation in 2008. Duh!

But why let a few facts get in the way. Like a vast percentage of minors are NOT accompanied by their parents. Even the leftist Democrats on the Hill smell blood and began screaming at Trump as if they have one ounce of compassion or a single fact on their side.

zeek, I thought you were a smart guy. I am amazed how easily you get distracted with the crowds. Like lemmings running over the cliff after every new shiny object. Wide is the way that leads to destruction. If the whole world hates Trump, you might want to reconsider why.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If the entire mainstream media is promoting the same narrative, it is by definition a deceptive lie.

I told you that the original picture, which ignited the controversy, was from 2014 under the Obama admin. Obviously you don't care. The media acts like these policies just begun, but have been going on for years. Notice the timing -- the Democrats had to distract our attention from the Kim Summit and the IG Report.

Amazingly, even Laura Bush chimed in, that is, until Sarah Sanders WH SpokesPerson reminded her that Dubya signed this legislation in 2008. Duh!

But why let a few facts get in the way. Like a vast percentage of minors are NOT accompanied by their parents. Even the leftist Democrats on the Hill smell blood and began screaming at Trump as if they have one ounce of compassion or a single fact on their side.

zeek, I thought you were a smart guy. I am amazed how easily you get distracted with the crowds. Like lemmings running over the cliff after every new shiny object. Wide is the way that leads to destruction. If the whole world hates Trump, you might want to reconsider why.

The bottom line is that we need legislation concerning immigration. It has to take into account the concerns for keeping the US safe, protecting out citizens, while also accounting for the wonderful benefits we get from immigrants as a boost to our economy. Finally, the current situation is not acceptable, we are a humane country and we do not want to imitate Nazi Germany.

There is an easy solution -- refuge city. Let those coming and claiming asylum go to a "refuge city" on the border where they can live and work until their case is adjudicated.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The bottom line is that we need legislation concerning immigration. It has to take into account the concerns for keeping the US safe, protecting out citizens, while also accounting for the wonderful benefits we get from immigrants as a boost to our economy. Finally, the current situation is not acceptable, we are a humane country and we do not want to imitate Nazi Germany.

There is an easy solution -- refuge city. Let those coming and claiming asylum go to a "refuge city" on the border where they can live and work until their case is adjudicated.

There's not one thing happening on the border that could be connected to the Hitler Natzis. That whole manufactured narrative is a deceptive lie. And you guys know it! This whole drama is just one more charade in a long series going back to the Primaries in 2015.

Every country has right to protect its borders. Every incarcerated felon is separated from his or her children. Most of these children are NOT accompanied by parents. All of these illegal immigrants should have gone to Ports of Entry. The children in these centers are well cared for. They are far safer than inner city schools, esp. Chicago.

Name me one child that has been gassed and incinerated on the border like the Jews in the holocaust.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

The burden of proof is on the Trump Administration to show that is the case. If it were so they would have said so in the beginning. Instead they said that separating the children from their parents was deterrent. It looks like you believed another lie.

It is the corrupt media and the Democrats who have the burden of proof.

Did they not bring forth false accusations?

Are we now all guilty until we prove ourselves innocent?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There's not one thing happening on the border that could be connected to the Hitler Natzis. That whole manufactured narrative is a deceptive lie. And you guys know it! This whole drama is just one more charade in a long series going back to the Primaries in 2015.

Every country has right to protect its borders. Every incarcerated felon is separated from his or her children. Most of these children are NOT accompanied by parents. All of these illegal immigrants should have gone to Ports of Entry. The children in these centers are well cared for. They are far safer than inner city schools, esp. Chicago.

These are not incarcerated felons. These are people who are applying for asylum and a judge has not yet had a chance to hear their case. Yes, many are lying and will be refused, but there are those who are truly seeking asylum. We do not need to treat them as felons. Like I said, there should be a refuge city where they are allowed to enter but not leave until their case is heard. This would save us the money of housing, feeding, and caring for them. If you are truly seeking asylum this would be merciful, if you are trying to scam the system and jump the line then you would be fingerprinted, deported, and the next time you try this you would immediately pop up in the system.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Name me one child that has been gassed and incinerated on the border like the Jews in the holocaust.

Prior to gassing them, the "final" solution, they were segregated into Ghetto's (Jewish side of the city), forced to wear stars, etc. When we talk about Nazi Germany it doesn't simply refer to gas chambers, it refers to ghettos, demonizing one small segment of society, blaming the Jews for all the ills in the country, running on a campaign to deal with the Jews, and a whole new way of enforcing the law including summary executions on the street without a trial.

The Nazi's were never elected to power on a platform of "gas chambers" that was done more subtly. They were elected with the promise to "deal with the problem of the Jews" much like Trump has made immigration and illegal aliens the cornerstone of his campaign. In fact the "make America great again" was lifted straight from Nazi campaign rhetoric. Another cornerstone was the claim that the peace treaty from WWI was not just, similar to Trump's contention that our trade agreements are not just.

It was not illogical to vote for Hitler, many were concerned about communism from Russia and Hitler was successful at branding communism as a Jewish doctrine. The peace treaty was unjust and Germans were right to fight it.

However, today the overwhelming majority of Germans are ashamed of Hitler, not because of what he promised (they are not communist and they have much better treaties today) but because they trusted him to accomplish what he promised even though he was clearly incompetent and they were willing to turn a blind eye because they liked his speeches.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

However, today the overwhelming majority of Germans are ashamed of Hitler, not because of what he promised (they are not communist and they have much better treaties today) but because they trusted him to accomplish what he promised even though he was clearly incompetent and they were willing to turn a blind eye because they liked his speeches.

Wow, does that sounds like Obama, the community organizer, the "Great Orator."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow, does that sounds like Obama, the community organizer, the "Great Orator."

If you are going to liken Obama to Hitler you have no ground to complain when others liken Trump to Hitler.

So far the only thing I have done is liken children held in cages, crying for their mothers similar to what the Nazis did in Germany when they began to separate out the Jews from the rest of the country.

[ZNPaaneah]

I think everyone is really overlooking the very big reveal. One Fox news anchor likened what she saw to summer camp! What kind of summer camp did she go to? Why is no one asking about this? Did her parents drop her off at the local penitentiary during the summer? If you abuse kids like that, telling them prison is summer camp, does that explain them later becoming Fox news hosts?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow, does that sounds like Obama, the community organizer, the "Great Orator."

Yeah, when are we gonna impeach Obama?

[ZNPaaneah]

I just finished an extensive course on the Civil War. It struck me at the end that if the South had been able to accurately and precisely calculate the cost of the war they wouldn't have seceded. It seems to me we have the technology to simulate war, and we could use the mathematical skill, formulas and precision of actuaries. Imagine if at some time in the future we simply calculate the cost before going to war. I think if we did that it would be a lot easier to mediate conflicts to avoid war.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah, when are we gonna impeach Obama?

When we gonna indict him for orchestrating a coup?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you are going to liken Obama to Hitler you have no ground to complain when others liken Trump to Hitler.

So far the only thing I have done is liken children held in cages, crying for their mothers similar to what the Nazis did in Germany when they began to separate out the Jews from the rest of the country.

Obama gave us the kids in cages, and you said nothing.

At this point I'd rather have a President who is hated. Hated without a cause.

Obama, however, was an idol.



Isn't this just how the AntiChrist will arrive on the scene? He will be likened to a god, loved by all. The media will fawn all over him, "and they worshiped the beast, saying who is like the beast." (Rev 13.4)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think everyone is really overlooking the very big reveal. One Fox news anchor likened what she saw to summer camp! What kind of summer camp did she go to? Why is no one asking about this? Did her parents drop her off at the local penitentiary during the summer? If you abuse kids like that, telling them prison is summer camp, does that explain them later becoming Fox news hosts?

I saw a report on the news. Doctor said the toddlers aged 1-3 were properly cared for but eerily silent, neither crying nor laughing.

The Left tries to blame this on the Trump administration. I blame it on those who dumped these kids at the border. Who would do that to children? They were all traumatized long before they arrived here.

[zeek]

After days of blaming Democrats for the separation of families accused of crossing the U.S. border illegally, President Trump has reversed course, signing an executive order to end the practice. For days, Trump's fellow Republicans in Congress have said he could erase the practice — one put in place under his presidency — with a wave of the hand. Many of them publicly called upon him to do so. The Trump administration claimed it was a matter of law that only Congress could change. They lied. Again. Just one more example of why Trump and his minions should not be believed.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I saw a report on the news. Doctor said the toddlers aged 1-3 were properly cared for but eerily silent, neither crying nor laughing.

The Left tries to blame this on the Trump administration. I blame it on those who dumped these kids at the border. Who would do that to children? They were all traumatized long before they arrived here.

Which is why I don't this the kids are the main issue. The main issue is immigration policy. You cannot possibly let everyone in that wants in, if you have a 10 year waiting list you can't possibly expect someone seeking asylum to wait 10 years. Therefore you have to have something in place so that all asylum seekers can arrive at a safe place without actually entering the country until we prove the claim -- i.e. the refuge city.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They were all traumatized long before they arrived here.

They left because they were being traumatized. All the more reason to give them asylum. It's the Jesus kinda Christian thing to do.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

They left because they were being traumatized. All the more reason to give them asylum. It's the Jesus kinda Christian thing to do.

How do you know these kids left because they were traumatized? All you know is what some lying liberal media type told you. Did you ever study this before? Learn what past policies were?

Since Hollywood stars are screaming out, I think the best policy is to do just the opposite of what they are telling us to do. We got actors threatening the life of Trump and his family-- so we should lock them up, and believe nothing they tell us.

So now you are deciding what is the Jesus kinda Christian things to do? How would you know since you don't believe the Bible is at all reliable?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How do you know these kids left because they were traumatized?

They didn't just leave their home to take a stroll to America. And what's wrong with them anyway?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

They didn't just leave their home to take a stroll to America. And what's wrong with them anyway?

Wasn't it the Eagles who said "we have got to make it here, there is no new frontier"?

At some point the solution is no longer to migrate, but rather to fix your own country.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wasn't it the Eagles who said "we have got to make it here, there is no new frontier"?

At some point the solution is no longer to migrate, but rather to fix your own country.

Yeah! From I've heard all those children are genius actors. So they certainly have the smarts to fix their government and society, and have military weapons.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How do you know these kids left because they were traumatized? All you know is what some lying liberal media type told you. Did you ever study this before? Learn what past policies were?

Since Hollywood stars are screaming out, I think the best policy is to do just the opposite of what they are telling us to do. We got actors threatening the life of Trump and his family-- so we should lock them up, and believe nothing they tell us.

So now you are deciding what is the Jesus kinda Christian things to do? How would you know since you don't believe the Bible is at all reliable?

Do you mean "Hollywood stars" like Reagan and Trump? Shouldn't we make them presidents? What about Tom Hanks? Samuel L. Jackson? Scarlett Johansson?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Do you mean "Hollywood stars" like Reagan and Trump? Shouldn't we make them presidents? What about Tom Hanks? Samuel L. Jackson? Scarlett Johansson?

Anyone can run. See what ideas they got. This is America. Arnold was Governor, wasn't he?

So shameful that you cover up the pathetic threats of Peter Fonda, DiNero, Depp, Griffin, Schumer, Fallon, etc. But I expect you to protect your "idols."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

They didn't just leave their home to take a stroll to America. And what's wrong with them anyway?

Stay home. There's no place like home. Even Dorothy knew that!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Anyone can run. See what ideas they got. This is America. Arnold was Governor, wasn't he?

So shameful that you cover up the pathetic threats of Peter Fonda, DiNero, Depp, Griffin, Schumer, Fallon, etc. But I expect you to protect your "idols."

I forgot about Schwarzenegger. All the media stars that become presidents or governors claim to be conservatives what's up with that? I heard about De Niro and Griffin. But what did Fonda and Depp and Schumer and Fallon say that you don't like? I have to know so I can cover it up.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I forgot about Schwarzenegger. All the media stars that become presidents or governors claim to be conservatives what's up with that? I heard about De Niro and Griffin. But what did Fonda and Depp and Schumer and Fallon say that you don't like? I have to know so I can cover it up.

Conveniently forget all the death threats by these jerks? They know what they are doing. They are hoping some crazy attempts to kill Trump, like Reagan. Reagan was a couple miracles away from death.

Neither Reagan or Trump were "stars." Reagan never won an award for acting, rather he was with the Screen Actors Guild fighting Communist infiltration into the movie industry.

Trump never acted. When my son was in Business School, Trump's show was a "must see" every week because it was so informative. Even his professors discussed shows.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Conveniently forget all the death threats by these jerks? They know what they are doing. They are hoping some crazy attempts to kill Trump, like Reagan. Reagan was a couple miracles away from death.

Neither Reagan or Trump were "stars." Reagan never won an award for acting, rather he was with the Screen Actors Guild fighting Communist infiltration into the movie industry.

Trump never acted. When my son was in Business School, Trump's show was a "must see" every week because it was so informative. Even his professors discussed shows.

Reagan starred in a lot of B movies. Trump was the star of a reality TV show. Are you engaged in a cover-up or are you suffering from amnesia?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I just finished an extensive course on the Civil War. It struck me at the end that if the South had been able to accurately and precisely calculate the cost of the war they wouldn't have seceded. It seems to me we have the technology to simulate war, and we could use the mathematical skill, formulas and precision of actuaries. Imagine if at some time in the future we simply calculate the cost before going to war. I think if we did that it would be a lot easier to mediate conflicts to avoid war.

That already happens, but politicians prefer their intuition or superstition and thats why such rational approaches rarely are used.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That already happens, but politicians prefer their intuition or superstition and thats why such rational approaches rarely are used.

Imagine in the future everyone could have access to one of these simulations, like using Madden Football to predict the Super Bowl. Then voters could be educated.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Even his professors discussed shows.

You mean those demonic liberal professors?

[zeek]

Like his wife declared on her jacket, the sower of chaos that created this mess doesn't "care". On Wednesday, under pressure from the growing outcry of millions of Americans, President Trump announced an executive order that would end his policy of separating migrant children from their parents at the border. But the Trump administration appears to have no clear plan for reuniting more than 2,300 kids with their families.

The situation is so bad that Trump’s zero tolerance policy could result in the long-term separation of families and that some may never see each other again. Migrants have already been deported from the U.S. without their children. The Trump administration has no system in place to solve a problem of its own making.

Religious groups and leaders called Trump's 'zero tolerance' immigration policy sad, sinful and immoral.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...615-story.html

Meanwhile, 6 months in, GOP tax bill is an "utter flop" for most people outside the richest 1%: http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3...-an-utter-flop

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Like his wife declared on her jacket, the sower of chaos that created this mess doesn't "care". On Wednesday, under pressure from the growing outcry of millions of Americans, President Trump announced an executive order that would end his policy of separating migrant children from their parents at the border. But the Trump administration appears to have no clear plan for reuniting more than 2,300 kids with their families.

The situation is so bad that Trump’s zero tolerance policy could result in the long-term separation of families and that some may never see each other again. Migrants have already been deported from the U.S. without their children. The Trump administration has no system in place to solve a problem of its own making.

Religious groups and leaders called Trump's 'zero tolerance' immigration policy sad, sinful and immoral.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...615-story.html

Meanwhile, 6 months in, GOP tax bill is an "utter flop" for most people outside the richest 1%: http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3...-an-utter-flop

All these problems came from the Obama Admin, but the Lefties said nothing.

Then one reporter pulled out a 2014 picture, and the rest is history.

Another text book example of Liberal hypocrisy.

You care nothing for these kids -- you only hate Trump!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Another text book example of Liberal hypocrisy.

Please send. As a mugwump I'm keenly interested in that text book. Kindle version preferred. While you're at it, could you also send the text book on conservative hypocrisy?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You care nothing for these kids -- you only hate Trump!

Mind reading fallacy.

[awareness]

The Department of Justice filed an emergency motion in federal court on Thursday to modify a 1997 settlement that prevents the government from detaining migrant children longer than 20 days. Ending the limitations on the length of time kids can be detained, the administration argues, is the only tenable alternative to splitting up families that are apprehended crossing the border illegally.

Put 'em all in cages, shoot them up with drugs, and keep 'em locked up indefinitely.

They're dangerous. And the wrong color too. In spite of the fact that there's no evidence that crime goes up with immigration ... except in Trumps head.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

The Department of Justice filed an emergency motion in federal court on Thursday to modify a 1997 settlement that prevents the government from detaining migrant children longer than 20 days. Ending the limitations on the length of time kids can be detained, the administration argues, is the only tenable alternative to splitting up families that are apprehended crossing the border illegally.

Put 'em all in cages, shoot them up with drugs, and keep 'em locked up indefinitely.

They're dangerous. And the wrong color too. In spite of the fact that there's no evidence that crime goes up with immigration ... except in Trumps head.

I think you are missing the point of your quote. Someone enters the country illegally. They claim asylum. We have to check this out but that can take much more than 20 days. Since we have a law that we cannot detain children for more than 20 days it is a catch 22. Enter the US with a child, claim asylum, and they will have to free you before they can verify the claim.

I think it is obvious that there is a loophole here that some, if not most of the illegal aliens are going to take advantage of.

1. Claim asylum, you jump to the front of the line, saving 15 years that it can take.
2. Bring a child, they can't detain the child for more than 20 days, and there is no way they can verify your claim in that amount of time.

So since you are obviously a most humane and caring person, what is the solution?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think you are missing the point of your quote. Someone enters the country illegally. They claim asylum. We have to check this out but that can take much more than 20 days. Since we have a law that we cannot detain children for more than 20 days it is a catch 22. Enter the US with a child, claim asylum, and they will have to free you before they can verify the claim.

I think it is obvious that there is a loophole here that some, if not most of the illegal aliens are going to take advantage of.

1. Claim asylum, you jump to the front of the line, saving 15 years that it can take.
2. Bring a child, they can't detain the child for more than 20 days, and there is no way they can verify your claim in that amount of time.

So since you are obviously a most humane and caring person, what is the solution?

The solution is more courts to get the job done within 20 days. Trump is against that.

So let 'em out until the court can book it. Why is that a problem? It's the law of the land, that Sessions, and Romans, says we have to keep.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

The solution is more courts to get the job done within 20 days. Trump is against that.

So let 'em out until the court can book it. Why is that a problem? It's the law of the land, that Sessions, and Romans, says we have to keep.

That is absurd. How are you going to "get the job done" in less than 20 days? Woman comes claiming domestic abuse, she'll be killed if she returns to her village. Now we have to send an investigator into some remote village, no one will talk to this investigator. You would need a highly trained team of four or five people for every immigrant claiming asylum, a travel budget and other resources. In Europe that number is approaching 1.5 million a year. If they could process one of these claims every month you would need you would need approximately 600,000 dedicated staff to process this each year. The cost could easily and reasonably exceed $60 billion per year.

I don't have that money, but if you are donating it then I agree with you that this is not much of a problem, I'm sure we could find people willing to do this work if you paid them adequately. I think this is mighty generous of you, it is wonderful you are willing to put your money where your mouth is.

I think you can understand why people who are not going to be able to collect Social Security after paying into it their whole life would be upset sending $60 billion a year for this instead of paying them. Simply explain to them that this is not the case, Awareness is going to donate the money, so no one has to take it from your retirement.

[Ohio]

I expect it from the Democrats and the liberal media, but who would guess that decent A-list movie and pop stars like J-Lo would purposely deceive us. She couldn't even do a decent cut-n-paste hack job.

Jennifer Lopez Spreads Hoax Photographs About Border Separation

Actress and pop megastar Jennifer Lopez spread fake news about President Trump’s border policies by using two hoax-photographs that have nothing to do with America’s decades-old policy of separating illegal alien children from illegal alien adults in detention centers.

Using her Instagram account, Jennifer Lopez published the photograph of a crying child, a photograph that we now know is fake news, a photo that had nothing to do with the separation of children from adults who commit the crime of entering our country illegally. Lopez is basically doing what our irresponsible, anti-Trump establishment media is doing: endlessly broadcasting a hoax.

Fake news has become a Pandemic Progressive Plague.

Is there any cure? We need a vaccination immediately!

How about a little HONESTY to go along with her fake "hope, faith, and love?"

[Ohio]

I have been talking about the DEEP STATE Coup handily dismissed by all of you, and things have been slowly happening. S.C. Muller's investigation is dying, with Michael Flynn's "conviction" about to be tossed out, along with the forgotten "Russian collusion" and the phony "Obstruction of Justice" charges. The house of cards is beginning to fall.

Take a look at what is happening to Obama's FBI, stacked with political operatives. Notice that Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, and Bill Priestap have become "cooperating witnesses." James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Jim Rybecki, and James Baker have long been fired, and will soon face indictments.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I expect it from the Democrats and the liberal media, but who would guess that decent A-list movie and pop stars like J-Lo would purposely deceive us. She couldn't even do a decent cut-n-paste hack job.

Jennifer Lopez Spreads Hoax Photographs About Border Separation
Fake news has become a Pandemic Progressive Plague.

Is there any cure? We need a vaccination immediately!

How about a little HONESTY to go along with her fake "hope, faith, and love?"

I would agree with you that the dishonesty and lies with the very clear motive of trying to provoke people to anger is far more damaging.

If someone really cared about the situation they would be focused on a clear, accurate and honest account.

[awareness]

Joe Scarborough (Republican) didn’t mince words Friday morning: He called Donald Trump “openly racist” and said that, by extension, so are his supporters.

“You’ve got Charlottesville, where Donald Trump of course defended white supremacists with moral equivalency,” Scarborough said. “Even this year, Donald Trump calling Hispanics ‘breeders.’ Just last week, saying that immigrants coming across the border were, quote, ‘infesting America,’ and no, he wasn’t talking about gang members.”

Scarborough then told Trump supporters they are just as bad as the president regarding racial issues.

“[Trump supporters] cannot say, ’Oh, I’m just supporting him because he’s giving them hell in Washington, D.C.,” Scarborough said. “No, he’s been openly racist, just like we said back in December of 2015, openly racist. If you support him, then you’re supporting that, and you are that. It’s that simple. That’s what we’ve come to now.”

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Joe Scarborough (Republican) didn’t mince words Friday morning: He called Donald Trump “openly racist” and said that, by extension, so are his supporters.

“You’ve got Charlottesville, where Donald Trump of course defended white supremacists with moral equivalency,” Scarborough said. “Even this year, Donald Trump calling Hispanics ‘breeders.’ Just last week, saying that immigrants coming across the border were, quote, ‘infesting America,’ and no, he wasn’t talking about gang members.”

Scarborough then told Trump supporters they are just as bad as the president regarding racial issues.

“[Trump supporters] cannot say, ’Oh, I’m just supporting him because he’s giving them hell in Washington, D.C.,” Scarborough said. “No, he’s been openly racist, just like we said back in December of 2015, openly racist. If you support him, then you’re supporting that, and you are that. It’s that simple. That’s what we’ve come to now.”

Wow, is that how it works? JFK was openly Catholic, does that mean everyone who supported him was Catholic? Greg Lougannis was openly gay, does that mean everyone who cheered for him was gay? Mohammed Ali was a draft dodger. Does that mean everyone who supported him was a draft dodger? Thanks, I didn't know why I never listened to Scarborough before, now I do.

Reminds me of Hillary Clinton who said that his supporters were deplorable. Makes you wonder why she lost the election.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wow, is that how it works? JFK was openly Catholic, does that mean everyone who supported him was Catholic? Greg Lougannis was openly gay, does that mean everyone who cheered for him was gay? Mohammed Ali was a draft dodger. Does that mean everyone who supported him was a draft dodger? Thanks, I didn't know why I never listened to Scarborough before, now I do.

Reminds me of Hillary Clinton who said that his supporters were deplorable. Makes you wonder why she lost the election.

If the shoe fits wear it. If the shoe fits you can't acquit.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Joe Scarborough (Republican) didn’t mince words Friday morning: He called Donald Trump “openly racist” and said that, by extension, so are his supporters.

“You’ve got Charlottesville, where Donald Trump of course defended white supremacists with moral equivalency,” Scarborough said. “Even this year, Donald Trump calling Hispanics ‘breeders.’ Just last week, saying that immigrants coming across the border were, quote, ‘infesting America,’ and no, he wasn’t talking about gang members.”

Scarborough, who was once a Republican Rep, is as liberal as they come today. Rarely meet a TV personality so openly biased, hateful, and racist. He has totally reinvented himself as the morning darling of liberals. He makes a lot of money bashing Trump.

With all the other Liberals, Joe S. is so dishonest about Charlottesville. Trump never supported white supremacists. Trying to diffuse the situation, he said there are "good people on both sides." Looking at the ANTIFA thugs, I thought Trump was being a little generous. Obviously both sides were looking for a fight, but I saw kids on both sides, and assumed, like Trump, that some of them were "good people."

Today the Left has little decency left. There is no one to hold them accountable, other than their viewers' ratings. The fear of God is gone for most atheists. They all can get away with the most defiling vulgarities and false accusations. Right on TV.

I fear more will get killed. The leftist media is stoking their fringes into a frenzy fire. We already got politicians (Scalise and Paul) attacked by rabid liberals. We got police attacked regularly. It's a good thing most Liberals do not exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Reminds me of Hillary Clinton who said that his supporters were deplorable. Makes you wonder why she lost the election.

Actually Hilary was much kinder to Trump's voters than some of these FBI agents involved with the Hilary emails and Trump investigations.

Since the mid-70's, when the Democrats actively sided with the proliferation of abortion clinics, I found no way I could ever support them again.

That, however, in no way makes the Republicans perfect angels.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I fear more will get killed. The leftist media is stoking their fringes into a frenzy fire. We already got politicians (Scalise and Paul) attacked by rabid liberals. We got police attacked regularly. It's a good thing most Liberals do not exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

Bashing liberals if fine to me. But it does strike as disingenuous since more often than not it's those on the hard right that's our biggest threat.

Face it bro Ohio. I know it's hard. But those on the left, and the right, are flawed human primates. And that's the worst you can say about anybody.

[zeek]

"George Will, a longtime political commentator and staunch defender of the conservative movement, made a dramatic exit from the Republican Party Friday, citing the party’s support for Donald Trump in the upcoming 2020 presidential election."

http://fortune.com/2018/06/22/george...button-sharing

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is absurd. How are you going to "get the job done" in less than 20 days?

The Family Case Management Program
https://www.google.com/search?q=The+...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

"George Will, a longtime political commentator and staunch defender of the conservative movement, made a dramatic exit from the Republican Party Friday, citing the party’s support for Donald Trump in the upcoming 2020 presidential election."

Didn't I talk about how the Atheists embrace the Left?

Without the convictions of faith principles, Will has slowly melted under the heat and pressure of the culture war against traditional conservative values.

Since Trump is so hated by progressives, Will now considers open borders, unlimited abortion, bigger gov't, socialism, etc. more desieable?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Actually Hilary was much kinder to Trump's voters

Hillary put Trump in office. And you give her no thanks.

Originally Posted by Ohio

That, however, in no way makes the Republicans perfect angels.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers on the right.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Didn't I talk about how the Atheists embrace the Left?

Without the convictions of faith principles, Will has slowly melted under the heat and pressure of the culture war against traditional conservative values.

Since Trump is so hated by progressives, Will now considers open borders, unlimited abortion, bigger gov't, socialism, etc. more desieable?

And prolly doesn't hold to family values, so doesn't support separating children from their parents.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Hillary put Trump in office. And you give her no thanks.


Clowns to the left of me, jokers on the right.

Thanks again Hilary, you done good!

Stuck in the middle again? Not you!

[awareness]

This hits so close to home that it steps on one -- not the last thank God -- of my nerves. I live in the Bible Belt, that's also widely known as the Pillbilly Belt. That does explain some of these ignorant Republicans I encounter around here ... and Kentucky clearly has a lot of them (not actually ... there's more registered Democrats than Republicans ... they're pillbillies too, apparently even more so, and can't even get up to vote). Kentuckians have always been a little tetched (were they in the civil war, or out of it?).

Anyway, on with the Reality TV show :

ZNP, my fetish is acting up again. How's yours doing? :

Chronic opioid use is higher among Trump voters, study finds
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...udy-finds.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

This hits so close to home that it steps on one -- not the last thank God -- of my nerves. I live in the Bible Belt, that's also widely known as the Pillbilly Belt. That does explain some of these ignorant Republicans I encounter around here ... and Kentucky clearly has a lot of them (not actually ... there's more registered Democrats than Republicans ... they're pillbillies too, apparently even more so, and can't even get up to vote). Kentuckians have always been a little tetched (were they in the civil war, or out of it?).

Chronic opioid use is higher among Trump voters, study finds
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...udy-finds.html

This is now reason #42 for why Hilary lost -- all the Trump voters were addicts, at least according to British Mail.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And prolly doesn't hold to family values, so doesn't support separating children from their parents.

Six Reasons Establishment Media Fabricated a ‘Border Crisis’

As you watch our fake news media desperately try to keep this hoax alive about a “crisis” on the border, never forget that this so-called crisis is fabricated. Never forget that this entire “crisis” was invented, created from whole cloth, ginned up, and is a naked act of fake news.

Oh, sure, the policy is real. Illegal alien children and adults were being separated into different detention centers. But this was not only being done for good and humane reasons; it has been government policy for two decades.

Barack Obama separated adults and children; Rachel Maddow never cried, Joe Scarborough never called him a Nazi, Jake Tapper never uttered a single word…

1. Trump Had an Amazing Week
2. Smother Congressional Hearings into FBI
   The inspector general’s report resulted in congressional hearings this week that would have only boosted Trump further — you know, had they received the wall-to-wall coverage this legitimate news story deserved. These hearings ended up being even more disastrous for disgraced former FBI Director James Comey (a media hero) and his appalling cabal of secret police, and the media are desperate to keep that truth hidden.
3. PURE RAGE and FRUSTRATION!
   The media are losing badly in their war against Trump, so our livid media pulled out all the stops to manufacture this coordinated narrative, but…
4. Midterm Elections
5. Media Want Illegal Aliens Flooding into America
6. Incentivize a Flood of Illegal Alien Families
   Too many of these minor children are exploited in unspeakable ways by sex traffickers, drug traffickers, human traffickers, and gangs.
   But the media do not care that they are incentivizing child abuse, child rape, and kidnapping. All they care about are their political goals, and if that means raped and abused children, so be it.

[Ohio]

The side of the story the Media rarely tells us ...

Sabine Durden, an angel mom, said Friday that President Trump saved her from committing suicide after an illegal immigrant killed her only son.

Durden said at an event for angel families that she is a legal immigrant and always sought to protect her son from harm.

“And I didn’t drag my son … through borders, over deserts, I didn’t place him in harm’s way. I protected my child from harm but I couldn’t do that on July 12, 2012,” she began.

Durden’s son, Dominic, was killed when an illegal immigrant took a wrong turn driving an unlicensed truck and struck him on his motorcycle. The illegal immigrant had a record of drunk driving.

“This is my only child. I have no family. That’s it,” Durden said, struggling through tears. “The public needs to know and they deserve to know that this could happen to each one of you at any second.”

“Thank God our president and vice president … they rallied behind us,” she continued. “They were the only ones and gave us a little light. I was gonna end my life — I had no purpose. But President Trump coming down that escalator that day and talking about illegal immigration stopped me in my tracks and I had no clue at that point that I would ever be at the White House.”

“Make sure you get our stories out,” she said. “I wear his ashes in a locket. That is how I get to hug my son.”

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Media Want Illegal Aliens Flooding into America

Don't you mean "infesting" America? ... cuz as Trump called them, they're animals.

Speaking of animals, from "sh*thole" countries, why doesn't Trump deport Obama back to Kenya?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Don't you mean "infesting" America? ... cuz as Trump called them, they're animals.

This is deceptive and disingenuous.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is deceptive and disingenuous.

Would prefer I posted his quotes, with dates times and places? Of course you could always look 'em up yourself. But you might have to look in different places than Fox.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Would prefer I posted his quotes, with dates times and places? Of course you could always look 'em up yourself. But you might have to look in different places than Fox.

I looked them all up. Trump only called the murdering members of the MS-13 gang "animals."

The deceptive Press takes statements out of context to serve their agenda.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that you can not understand this.

Like UntoHim says, "You're better than that."

Like TC used to say, "Try not to misunderstand me."

Like others have said, "Trump Derangement Syndrome has blinded you."

[Ohio]

Reuters ‘Fake News’ Spins Pope Against Trump

In one of the most egregious cases of journalistic deception in recent memory, Reuters has spun Pope Francis to literally say the opposite of what he said regarding President Trump and immigration.

Veteran pope-spinner Phil Pullella, who famously lured Francis into calling Trump a non-Christian in 2016, was back to his old tricks, trying futilely to get the pope to criticize the U.S. president. Having failed to do so, Reuters simply went with the story anyway, carefully selecting which papal quotations to insert in the story and which to omit to back up their pre-conceived narrative.

"If you don't read the news, you are uninformed.

If you do read the news, you are mis-informed.


Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in the news." -- Mark Twain

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in the news." -- Mark Twain

It's a sad state of affairs. Once I catch someone in a lie I don't trust them any more. And Twain obviously wasn't aware of modern day advertising.

[zeek]

Is fiscal conservatism dead? Republicans railed against the national debt level under the Obama administration, when it jumped from $10.6 trillion to $19.9 trillion, nearly doubling, but few have been as outspoken about the situation with Republicans controlling Capitol Hill and the White House.

About a year ago, President Trump pledged to eliminate the national debt "over a period of eight years." But for the first time in history, the national debt surpassed $21 trillion this week, according to the U.S. Treasury.

The landmark comes shortly after Congress passed, and Mr. Trump signed, a suspension on the federal debt limit last month, allowing the government to borrow an unlimited amount of money until March 1, 2019.

When Mr. Trump took office on Jan. 20, 2017, the national debt was $19.9 trillion, according to U.S. Treasury data. Since then, the GOP-led Congress has passed a $1.5 trillion tax cut bill and a two-year spending deal which, together, are expected to drive the deficit and debt further upward. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates annual deficits could top $2.1 trillion per year in the next decade, which would send the national debt soaring even higher.

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, held up the spending bill last month on the Senate floor, blistering Republicans for doing exactly what they had criticized the Obama administration for doing.

"I ran for office because I was critical of President Obama's trillion-dollar deficits," Paul said at the time. "Now we have Republicans hand-in-hand with Democrats offering us trillion-dollar deficits." Source: ABC News

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Is fiscal conservatism dead? Republicans railed against the national debt level under the Obama administration, when it jumped from $10.6 trillion to $19.9 trillion, nearly doubling, but few have been as outspoken about the situation with Republicans controlling Capitol Hill and the White House.

About a year ago, President Trump pledged to eliminate the national debt "over a period of eight years." But for the first time in history, the national debt surpassed $21 trillion this week, according to the U.S. Treasury.

The landmark comes shortly after Congress passed, and Mr. Trump signed, a suspension on the federal debt limit last month, allowing the government to borrow an unlimited amount of money until March 1, 2019.

When Mr. Trump took office on Jan. 20, 2017, the national debt was $19.9 trillion, according to U.S. Treasury data. Since then, the GOP-led Congress has passed a $1.5 trillion tax cut bill and a two-year spending deal which, together, are expected to drive the deficit and debt further upward. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates annual deficits could top $2.1 trillion per year in the next decade, which would send the national debt soaring even higher.

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, held up the spending bill last month on the Senate floor, blistering Republicans for doing exactly what they had criticized the Obama administration for doing.

"I ran for office because I was critical of President Obama's trillion-dollar deficits," Paul said at the time. "Now we have Republicans hand-in-hand with Democrats offering us trillion-dollar deficits." Source: ABC News

Trump just talks a good game ... that's become obvious. "Better, cheaper, insurance for everyone."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's a sad state of affairs. Once I catch someone in a lie I don't trust them any more. And Twain obviously wasn't aware of modern day advertising.

The others you just haven't caught yet!

"Let God be true, and every man a liar!" -- Romans 3.4

"All men are liars." -- Psalm 116.11

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump just talks a good game ... that's become obvious. "Better, cheaper, insurance for everyone."

But he would do better if he just read off the teleprompter like Obama?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Is fiscal conservatism dead? Republicans railed against the national debt level under the Obama administration, when it jumped from $10.6 trillion to $19.9 trillion, nearly doubling, but few have been as outspoken about the situation with Republicans controlling Capitol Hill and the White House.

About a year ago, President Trump pledged to eliminate the national debt "over a period of eight years." But for the first time in history, the national debt surpassed $21 trillion this week, according to the U.S. Treasury.

The landmark comes shortly after Congress passed, and Mr. Trump signed, a suspension on the federal debt limit last month, allowing the government to borrow an unlimited amount of money until March 1, 2019.

When Mr. Trump took office on Jan. 20, 2017, the national debt was $19.9 trillion, according to U.S. Treasury data. Since then, the GOP-led Congress has passed a $1.5 trillion tax cut bill and a two-year spending deal which, together, are expected to drive the deficit and debt further upward. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates annual deficits could top $2.1 trillion per year in the next decade, which would send the national debt soaring even higher.

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, held up the spending bill last month on the Senate floor, blistering Republicans for doing exactly what they had criticized the Obama administration for doing.

"I ran for office because I was critical of President Obama's trillion-dollar deficits," Paul said at the time. "Now we have Republicans hand-in-hand with Democrats offering us trillion-dollar deficits." Source: ABC News

The Republican Party is much more diverse and inclusive than the Democratic/Socialist Party of Schumer and Pelosi, as evidenced by fiscal policy you mentioned and immigration policy.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Republican Party is much more diverse . . .

And no longer the party of Reagan ... the republican party is now the party of Trump ... who has never held to republican values. Trump killed that republican party. R.I.P.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And no longer the party of Reagan ... the republican party is now the party of Trump ... who has never held to republican values. Trump killed that republican party. R.I.P.

I thought Bush Dubya killed it, have you forgotten?

Did you miss that Michael Moore flick?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I thought Bush Dubya killed it, have you forgotten?

Did you miss that Michael Moore flick?

Well you've got a point. But it depends on who you talk to. Arch conservatives certainly thought Dubya killed the republican party. My Alaskan friend, of Elden fame, Hosepipe (Manna Man's dad) certainly thought so. Maybe Trump is the coup de grâce.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"All men are liars." -- Psalm 116.11

This is certainly true of this immigration debate. I heard one woman say that you are not permitted to ask if Trump's policy is effective at reducing phony claims of asylum.

Apparently it is permitted for people to lie about asylum, it is permitted for them to also bring a child knowing that the law prohibits us from detaining a child for more than 20 days. But the US government is not permitted in establishing a policy that exposes the liars.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is certainly true of this immigration debate. I heard one woman say that you are not permitted to ask if Trump's policy is effective at reducing phony claims of asylum.

Apparently it is permitted for people to lie about asylum, it is permitted for them to also bring a child knowing that the law prohibits us from detaining a child for more than 20 days. But the US government is not permitted in establishing a policy that exposes the liars.

There are strong globalist forces in both Europe and the US to have completely open borders, yet the outspoken leaders of the Left will never admit this, so they manufacture this feigned injustice with children. If they truly cared for the most vulnerable of society, they would also protest the unending slaughter of the unborn, especially the unborn minority children.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There are strong globalist forces in both Europe and the US to have completely open borders, yet the outspoken leaders of the Left will never admit this, so they manufacture this feigned injustice with children. If they truly cared for the most vulnerable of society, they would also protest the unending slaughter of the unborn, especially the unborn minority children.

That is hypocrisy, they are outraged about separating children from parents who are applying for asylum, yet have no problem with separating a fetus from the mother and tossing it in the trash.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is hypocrisy, they are outraged about separating children from parents who are applying for asylum, yet have no problem with separating a fetus from the mother and tossing it in the trash.

It's also hypocrisy to care for the unborn and to not care about children separated from parents. Or to deport them back to be killed.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's also hypocrisy to care for the unborn and to not care about children separated from parents. Or to deport them back to be killed.

If you really cared, why didn't we hear about it back during the Obama administration. These laws have been in place for many years. That caged picture of 2 sleeping children was taken in 2014 -- inconvenient fact, eh?

These immigrant children ARE cared for. They are getting the best care they have ever had! They are far safer than any Democratically controlled inner city in the country. Compare their safety to Chicago youth who die from gunshots daily.

Months ago Trump tried to legislate a deal with the Congress over DACA. Every day the Democrats screamed about 800,000 DACA "Dreamers." Trump shocked them and promised a pathway to amnesty and citizenship for 1,800,000 immigrants in exchange for legislation and a wall to provide long term solutions.

Democrats said "NO."

We then conclusively learned that the Democrats DON't CARE ABOUT IMMIGRANTS OR CHILDREN. They only care about their future. They are using these kids for political gain! They have losing policies, and need open borders to survive.

Send these kids to Martha's Vineyard. That will shut the Dems up.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If you really cared, why didn't we hear about it back during the Obama administration. These laws have been in place for many years. That caged picture of 2 sleeping children was taken in 2014 -- inconvenient fact, eh?

These immigrant children ARE cared for. They are getting the best care they have ever had! They are far safer than any Democratically controlled inner city in the country. Compare their safety to Chicago youth who die from gunshots daily.

Months ago Trump tried to legislate a deal with the Congress over DACA. Every day the Democrats screamed about 800,000 DACA "Dreamers." Trump shocked them and promised a pathway to amnesty and citizenship for 1,800,000 immigrants in exchange for legislation and a wall to provide long term solutions.

Democrats said "NO."

We then conclusively learned that the Democrats DON't CARE ABOUT IMMIGRANTS OR CHILDREN. They only care about their future. They are using these kids for political gain! They have losing policies, and need open borders to survive.

Send these kids to Martha's Vineyard. That will shut the Dems up.

So I guess you're down with this Trump Tweet:

Democrats, fix the laws. Don’t RESIST. We are doing a far better job than Bush and Obama, but we need strength and security at the Border! Cannot accept all of the people trying to break into our Country. Strong Borders, No Crime!
8:12 AM - Jun 24, 2018

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The others you just haven't caught yet!

"Let God be true, and every man a liar!" -- Romans 3.4

Paul isn't asserting that all men ARE liars, but rather that it would be better if they were considered so than to hold that God is untrue.

"All men are liars." -- Psalm 116.11

Look at the context of that statement. The whole verse is

"I said in my haste, 'All men are liars'.”

By omitting the beginning of the verse, a word spoken in haste is made to seem like an objective statement of fact. The Psalmist admits he spoke rashly in a moment of affliction. [v.10]

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Paul isn't asserting that all men ARE liars, but rather that it would be better if they were considered so than to hold that God is untrue.

"All men are liars." -- Psalm 116.11

Look at the context of that statement. The whole verse is

"I said in my haste, 'All men are liars'.”

By omitting the beginning of the verse, a word spoken in haste is made to seem like an objective statement of fact. The Psalmist admits he spoke rashly in a moment of affliction.

When Paul quoted the Psalmist, he apparently did not seem to need it either.

The rest of the verse is quite appropriate for the forum, "That You should be justified in Your sayings and will overcome when You are judged." Rom 3.4

I have read too much "judgment" of God on Alt-Views, but Paul informs us God WILL be justified and overcome all of man's criticisms.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So I guess you're down with this Trump Tweet:

You OK with the Democrats calling on their people to openly harass Trump, His administration, and His supporters?" You down with this?

Former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) criticized comments by Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) over the weekend calling on the public to “harass” members of the Trump administration — but said the President was to blame for Waters’s rhetoric.

Mad Maxine, who's been in Congress since Rodney King, is not accountable for her own words?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You OK with the Democrats calling on their people to openly harass Trump, His administration, and His supporters?" You down with this?

Former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) criticized comments by Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) over the weekend calling on the public to “harass” members of the Trump administration — but said the President was to blame for Waters’s rhetoric.

Mad Maxine, who's been in Congress since Rodney King, is not accountable for her own words?

I think it's funny, and telling -- a obvious projection -- that Trump had to twitter-twat about Maxine :

"Congresswoman Maxine Waters, an extraordinarily low IQ person, has become, together with Nancy Pelosi, the Face of the Democrat Party. She has just called for harm to supporters, of which there are many, of the Make America Great Again movement. Be careful what you wish for Max!" ,' Trump tweeted Monday 6/25/18

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You OK with the Democrats calling on their people to openly harass Trump, His administration, and His supporters?" You down with this?

Former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) criticized comments by Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) over the weekend calling on the public to “harass” members of the Trump administration — but said the President was to blame for Waters’s rhetoric.

Mad Maxine, who's been in Congress since Rodney King, is not accountable for her own words?

This harassment reminds me of the way the Brownshirts would harass Jews in Germany before Hitler took power.

Funny how the extreme right and extreme left are so similar.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This harassment reminds me of the way the Brownshirts would harass Jews in Germany before Hitler took power.

Funny how the extreme right and extreme left are so similar.

Harassing others fails the Golden Rule test.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This harassment reminds me of the way the Brownshirts would harass Jews in Germany before Hitler took power.

Funny how the extreme right and extreme left are so similar.

Do you understand what you just said?

You are comparing the tactics of Nazi Germany with today's extreme left.

The extreme left today is attempting to persuade the world that the similarity is between Nazi Germany and 60 million Trump voters. Not so! They are more likely to be called the "silent majority."

[Ohio]

Duplicate.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Harassing others fails the Golden Rule test.

We learned more about WH Spox Sanders and the Red Hen restaurant from Governor Huckabee:

After the owner expelled the Sanders Party of eight, Sanders and hubbie went home, and her 6 in-laws went up the street to finish their dinner in Lexington.

Not satisfied merely with the eviction and public shaming of a Trump Staffer, the Red Hen owner and her staff gathered passers-by to further shame the Sanders party at their new eatery. They assembled outside chanting and slurring the party from the street.

It was not until one of the remaining party of six came out and informed the hecklers that they too were "liberals," and that Sanders was no longer with them, that the angry "mob" dispersed, all satisfied with their "public service."

Sanders, however, displayed the utmost grace and character throughout the entire ordeal. She alone passed the Golden Rule Test.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Do you understand what you just said?

You are comparing the tactics of Nazi Germany with today's extreme left.

The extreme left today is attempting to persuade the world that the similarity is between Nazi Germany and 60 million Trump voters. Not so! They are more likely to be called the "silent majority."

Yes I understand. The youtube video of protesters harassing the woman at the Mexican restaurant, this case of evicting Sanders from this restaurant and the video of Maxine Waters stirring up the rabble to do these things is clear and incontrovertible evidence of what you have been claiming for the last year. Prior to this I had not seen anything to support your claims, but now I can't deny that it exists, the only question now is to what extent. However, I did see some of the Left leaning media discussing these events without condemning them but rather trying to justify.

The very same shows that totally condemn the Baker for refusing to let someone dictate to him how to make a cake is the very same ones justifying the denial of service to Sanders because of her politics. The way one pundit put it "on the bright side now they know what it is like to be a minority".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes I understand. The youtube video of protesters harassing the woman at the Mexican restaurant, this case of evicting Sanders from this restaurant and the video of Maxine Waters stirring up the rabble to do these things is clear and incontrovertible evidence of what you have been claiming for the last year. Prior to this I had not seen anything to support your claims, but now I can't deny that it exists, the only question now is to what extent. However, I did see some of the Left leaning media discussing these events without condemning them but rather trying to justify.

The very same shows that totally condemn the Baker for refusing to let someone dictate to him how to make a cake is the very same ones justifying the denial of service to Sanders because of her politics. The way one pundit put it "on the bright side now they know what it is like to be a minority".

The left conveniently leave out details about that Colorado baker. He never refused to serve that gay couple. They were free to buy any of the baked goods in his shop. What he refused to do was his custom artistic talent on his cakes, a view which he also holds about Halloween art. The equivalent would be to force progressive artists or musicians to do some religious art that violated their own convictions.

Sarah Sanders was not requiring the Red Hen Restaurant to bake special Pro-Trump or conservative-message meals that violated their personal culinary skills. Neither was there any political conversation even occurring in their restaurant.

The SCOTUS ruling was very narrow, and should not be interpreted as a justification to refuse service to either the left or the right, let alone shame them down the street at another restaurant.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The left conveniently leave out details about that Colorado baker. He never refused to serve that gay couple. They were free to buy any of the baked goods in his shop. What he refused to do was his custom artistic talent on his cakes, a view which he also holds about Halloween art. The equivalent would be to force progressive artists or musicians to do some religious art that violated their own convictions.

Sarah Sanders was not requiring the Red Hen Restaurant to bake special Pro-Trump or conservative-message meals that violated their personal culinary skills. Neither was there any political conversation even occurring in their restaurant.

The SCOTUS ruling was very narrow, and should not be interpreted as a justification to refuse service to either the left or the right, let alone shame them down the street at another restaurant.

Consider those guys that were thrown out of Starbucks creating a huge uproar. They were not buying anything and they were asking to use the bathroom. No doubt Maxine Waters was screaming about their "rights" being violated.

Hypocrisy is off the hook.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Consider those guys that were thrown out of Starbucks creating a huge uproar. They were not buying anything and they were asking to use the bathroom. No doubt Maxine Waters was screaming about their "rights" being violated.

Hypocrisy is off the hook.

The manager of that Starbucks was only following policy when she or he asked them to leave, but if they were not upsetting other customers, depriving them of the use of Starbucks seating and restrooms, why call the police? Did the two guys become belligerent when asked to leave?

Both Starbucks and Red Hen have seriously hurt themselves by escalating the situation. With every customer in the country carrying a video camera, there exists the potential for every mis-action to go virule.

The heated, exaggerated rhetoric is carefully crafted to demonize Trump and all conservatives. They are all characterized as EVIL personified. Hence all action is justified in order to stop them. For "decent" folks like Red Hen staff, this only means expulsion and subsequent shaming. What happens when the less scrupulous kind get involved? Perhaps during a benign congressional baseball game.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The manager of that Starbucks was only following policy when she or he asked them to leave, but if they were not upsetting other customers, depriving them of the use of Starbucks seating and restrooms, why call the police? Did the two guys become belligerent when asked to leave?

Since it was videotaped and there did not seem to be any belligerence at all on their part I would suggest the answer is most likely no.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Both Starbucks and Red Hen have seriously hurt themselves by escalating the situation. With every customer in the country carrying a video camera, there exists the potential for every mis-action to go virule.

Yes, smart phones have been revolutionary, fulfilling the Lord's word that "what you do in secret will be shouted from the rooftop". I suspect that much of what we are seeing today on the news as outrageous behavior took place before, we just didn't get to see it. As a result even though it seems things are getting worse I suspect the opposite is true.

Originally Posted by Ohio

The heated, exaggerated rhetoric is carefully crafted to demonize Trump and all conservatives. They are all characterized as EVIL personified. Hence all action is justified in order to stop them. For "decent" folks like Red Hen staff, this only means expulsion and subsequent shaming. What happens when the less scrupulous kind get involved? Perhaps during a benign congressional baseball game.

I just don't see how any of these events (Red Hen, Starbucks, the Mexican Restaurant, or Maxine Waters) is "crafted to demonize Trump". Nor do I think the reference to a terrorist attack is a constructive response. It sounds like a veiled threat.

Radio and TV have learned that the secret to ratings is controversy. They are no longer purveyors of truth, or news, but rather "controversy".

How do you protect the right to free speech while promoting the reasoned debate, factually accurate accounts, and speaking the truth in love?

In my opinion both sides of the current debate about immigration have valid points. However, they will be subsumed by the lies, distortion, and agenda of those on the extreme right and left.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I just don't see how any of these events (Red Hen, Starbucks, the Mexican Restaurant, or Maxine Waters) is "crafted to demonize Trump".

Demonize Trump "and conservatives" including his staff. Seriously?

Regardless of official "push back," Trump's opponents have been called on to harass all of his supporters. David Hogg was used in an attempt to remove Laura Ingraham from TV. Antifa has been organized on numerous universities to prevent conservative speakers like Coulter and Shapiro. Sarah Sanders was face-shamed at the WHCD. SNL regularly mocks Trump and staff.

My comment "crafted to demonize Trump" has specific objectives for the Left, from fear-mongering to humiliation to submission to departure. The level of hatred on both sides is being stoked in the Press. The next protest may lead to a serious confrontation. Then folks like Maxine will claim she "never did anything wrong."

Radio and TV have learned that the secret to ratings is controversy. They are no longer purveyors of truth, or news, but rather "controversy".

How do you protect the right to free speech while promoting the reasoned debate, factually accurate accounts, and speaking the truth in love?

Not so sure about this. CNN's ratings have continued to drop since they are perceived to be an "anti-Trump" network. Their news has been wrong so many times, it's not worth watching. Since they pay so many public venues (airports, hospitals, etc.) to air their station, I wonder how much worse their ratings would be. Often I don't see any correction to the errors they report, and it just accumulates over time, reducing their credibility. "Controversy" translated as Anti-Trumpism has clearly not helped their bottom line.

Real journalism is dying. I used to watch CNN, and they always seemed to have the best coverage of breaking news. About the time of the Boston Marathon Bombing that changed. They no longer held the competitive edge they once held. The difference was their new President Jeff Zucker. With the arrival of Trump, Zucker took merely skewed political opinion into political hate speech I see every time I watch.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I just don't see how any of these events (Red Hen, Starbucks, the Mexican Restaurant, or Maxine Waters) is "crafted to demonize Trump".

No one is needed to demonize the anti-Christ.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

No one is needed to demonize the anti-Christ.

Time Magazine (like you awareness) has been caught up in the web of deception, with the goal to destroy all of their "enemies" by demonizing them.

[Ohio]

If the LEFT did not have double standards, they would not have any standards at all.

Peter Fonda called for pedophiles to rape Trump's 12-year-old son. Democratic congresswoman Maxine Waters called for mob violence against conservatives and Republicans wherever they are seen in public. Kathy Griffin symbolically performed a bloody beheading of Trump. Snoop Dogg symbolically shot Trump in the head. Madonna expressed her desire to blow up the White House. Black Lives Matter told blacks to ambush and kill whites and police. The thread that ties these wacko big voices together is that they are members of the American left, enthusiastically encouraged by their homeys in fake news media. Yes, the American left is boldly calling for violence against all who disagree with its agenda.

Liberal Roseanne Barr, however, who stupidly called Valerie Jarrett a monkey, had her career destroyed over one Tweet. Kind of ironic since the LEFT has long convinced the public that we in fact did evolve from monkeys.

Obviously death threats, as long as they are directed at conservatives, are OK, but name-calling is not. Every night the Liberal comedians attack and mock all things conservative, but never mock a Liberal!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If the LEFT did not have double standards, they would not have any standards at all.

Liberal Roseanne Barr, however, who stupidly called Valerie Jarrett a monkey, had her career destroyed over one Tweet. Kind of ironic since the LEFT has long convinced the public that we in fact did evolve from monkeys.

Obviously death threats, as long as they are directed at conservatives, are OK, but name-calling is not. Every night the Liberal comedians attack and mock all things conservative, but never mock a Liberal!

And Roseanne Barr typifies the right ; multiple personalities, and mental institutions.

Clowns to the right of me, jokers to the left.

[zeek]

GOOD NEWS!

The U.S. must stop taking migrant children from their parents at the border and reunite separated families within 30 days, a federal judge ruled
Wednesday, June 27, 2018 12:15 AM EST

A federal judge in California issued a nationwide injunction late Tuesday temporarily stopping the Trump administration from separating children from their parents at the border and ordered that all families already separated be reunited within 30 days.

Judge Dana M. Sabraw of the Federal District Court in San Diego said children under 5 must be reunited with their parents within 14 days, and he ordered that all children must be allowed to talk to their parents within 10 days.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Demonize Trump "and conservatives" including his staff. Seriously?

Regardless of official "push back," Trump's opponents have been called on to harass all of his supporters. David Hogg was used in an attempt to remove Laura Ingraham from TV. Antifa has been organized on numerous universities to prevent conservative speakers like Coulter and Shapiro. Sarah Sanders was face-shamed at the WHCD. SNL regularly mocks Trump and staff.

My comment "crafted to demonize Trump" has specific objectives for the Left, from fear-mongering to humiliation to submission to departure. The level of hatred on both sides is being stoked in the Press. The next protest may lead to a serious confrontation. Then folks like Maxine will claim she "never did anything wrong."

Yes, and you are not referring to the Red Hen event as being "crafted to demonize Trump" nor are you referring to the Starbucks event as being "crafted to demonize Trump", nor are you referring to the event at the Mexican restaurant nor are you referring to the video of Maxine Waters exhorting people to harass govt employees.

If you try and tie every single event into the effort of Trump's political opponents to "demonize him" then you come across as paranoid and delusional.

Seriously, do you really think there was coordination between the management at that tiny restaurant the Red Hen, or the Starbucks manager that called the cops with Political operatives? Likewise, do you really think the people eating that the Mexican restaurant were political hacks? Obviously Maxine Waters can be seen as part of the political apparatus to discredit Trump, but that particular event did not "demonize" Trump, it demonized her. Nor was it "crafted" it was idiotic.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you try and tie every single event into the effort of Trump's political opponents to "demonize him" then you come across as paranoid and delusional.

When it comes to politics Christians today skip over the sermon on the mount.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

When it comes to politics Christians today skip over the sermon on the mount.

Good example of gross exaggeration.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The manager of that Starbucks was only following policy when she or he asked them to leave, but if they were not upsetting other customers, depriving them of the use of Starbucks seating and restrooms, why call the police? Did the two guys become belligerent when asked to leave?

Both Starbucks and Red Hen have seriously hurt themselves by escalating the situation. With every customer in the country carrying a video camera, there exists the potential for every mis-action to go virule.

The heated, exaggerated rhetoric is carefully crafted to demonize Trump and all conservatives. They are all characterized as EVIL personified. Hence all action is justified in order to stop them. For "decent" folks like Red Hen staff, this only means expulsion and subsequent shaming. What happens when the less scrupulous kind get involved? Perhaps during a benign congressional baseball game.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, and you are not referring to the Red Hen event as being "crafted to demonize Trump" nor are you referring to the Starbucks event as being "crafted to demonize Trump", nor are you referring to the event at the Mexican restaurant nor are you referring to the video of Maxine Waters exhorting people to harass govt employees.

If you try and tie every single event into the effort of Trump's political opponents to "demonize him" then you come across as paranoid and delusional.

Seriously, do you really think there was coordination between the management at that tiny restaurant the Red Hen, or the Starbucks manager that called the cops with Political operatives? Likewise, do you really think the people eating that the Mexican restaurant were political hacks? Obviously Maxine Waters can be seen as part of the political apparatus to discredit Trump, but that particular event did not "demonize" Trump, it demonized her. Nor was it "crafted" it was idiotic.

Read my statement above. I'll quote it again:

The heated, exaggerated rhetoric is carefully crafted to demonize Trump and all conservatives.

Now go back and read your post quoted above and you will see another "fulfillment" of what I said. You twisted and distorted my words against me, taking them out of context in order to discredit me. But I'm not bothered, they did the same to Jesus. (Mark 14.55-58)

Back to the Point. The nasty events we are seeing every day in the news are not "crafted" per se, but are the result, the evil fruit, of a carefully crafted and exaggerated rhetoric designed to demonize Trump and all conservatives. This bad behavior can only get worse.

This pathetic rhetoric comes from the Democrats, some anti-Trump Republicans, the entire mainstream media, the Hollywood elites, and former deep state operatives, etc.

[zeek]

Trump is a model of incivility. He encouraged violence at his campaign rallies. He denigrated women about their looks. He mocked a disabled man. He belittled his political opponents and defamed their families. He bragged about groping and touching women. And he openly lies to the American public everyday. He has no standing from which to criticize people for incivility.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump is a model of incivility. He encouraged violence at his campaign rallies. He denigrated women about their looks. He mocked a disabled man. He belittled his political opponents and defamed their families. He bragged about groping and touching women. And he openly lies to the American public everyday. He has no standing from which to criticize people for incivility.

And, of course, we can blame all the bad behavior exhibited by liberal progressives on Trump too!


Just like we heard for 8 years all the bad behavior in the Obama administration blamed on Bush.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Back to the Point. The nasty events we are seeing every day in the news are not "crafted" per se, but are the result, the evil fruit, of a carefully crafted and exaggerated rhetoric designed to demonize Trump and all conservatives. This bad behavior can only get worse.

This pathetic rhetoric comes from the Democrats, some anti-Trump Republicans, the entire mainstream media, the Hollywood elites, and former deep state operatives, etc.

This latest news helps to prove my point about "carefully crafted and exaggerated rhetoric."

Poll: 72% of Americans Believe Establishment Media Deliberately Report Fake News

In layman's terms it can be called "fake news."

[zeek]

I've noticed that Marco Rubio sometimes makes statements on Twitter worth considering. Here are a couple relevant to the civility issue.

Trump haters still haven’t realized how much they help him with their condescension of those who either voted for him or don’t share their hatred of him. And how much they help him with their irrational hostility towards those who work for him.

Many Republicans won’t criticize Trump even when they don’t agree with him b/c it means siding with a media that nevers cuts him a break,turns even little things he does into an act of evil, are also unfair to them & in the end will still attack you anyway.

I don't agree that hostility toward those who work for him is irrational. After all they are facilitating a dangerous sociopath in the world's most powerful position. I support non-violent protest against them. We should look to people like Jesus, Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi as examples of how to do this.

[zeek]

"North Korea Is Rapidly Upgrading Nuclear Site Despite Summit Vow.
Satellite images show no evidence of dismantling after Kim Jong Un’s commitment at summit to denuclearize."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-k...acy-1530100351

What now?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

"North Korea Is Rapidly Upgrading Nuclear Site Despite Summit Vow.
Satellite images show no evidence of dismantling after Kim Jong Un’s commitment at summit to denuclearize."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-k...acy-1530100351

What now?

When Trump's love bombing doesn't work he says he hits back 10 times harder. Expect him to nuke his new lover boy.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I've noticed that Marco Rubio sometimes makes statements on Twitter worth considering. Here are a couple relevant to the civility issue.

Trump haters still haven’t realized how much they help him with their condescension of those who either voted for him or don’t share their hatred of him. And how much they help him with their irrational hostility towards those who work for him.

Many Republicans won’t criticize Trump even when they don’t agree with him b/c it means siding with a media that nevers cuts him a break,turns even little things he does into an act of evil, are also unfair to them & in the end will still attack you anyway.

I don't agree that hostility toward those who work for him is irrational. After all they are facilitating a dangerous sociopath in the world's most powerful position. I support non-violent protest against them. We should look to people like Jesus, Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi as examples of how to do this.

What? But you did not "look to people like Jesus, Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi as examples" when you launched this latest attack on Trump.


Instead you took the Saul Alinsky way -- label your opponent the worst possible way, such as a dangerous sociopath, and then you can justify your every bad word and action against him. Tomorrow you can call him Hitler again. Then on Friday, welcoming in the weekend, you can be nice and only call him a narcissist.

Sorry, zeek, but why do you talk the "high road," and then actually take the gutter route every time? #BlindedByHate

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Back to the Point. The nasty events we are seeing every day in the news are not "crafted" per se, but are the result, the evil fruit, of a carefully crafted and exaggerated rhetoric designed to demonize Trump and all conservatives. This bad behavior can only get worse.

This pathetic rhetoric comes from the Democrats, some anti-Trump Republicans, the entire mainstream media, the Hollywood elites, and former deep state operatives, etc.

Yes, but the media attacked Nixon, they attacked Clinton, they attacked Reagan, they attacked Bush, they attacked Obama. Why are people so surprised like it is a new thing. This is politics. Whoever is in power will be attacked, discredited, slandered. All with the hope that the other party will make gains in the next election.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, but the media attacked Nixon, they attacked Clinton, they attacked Reagan, they attacked Bush, they attacked Obama. Why are people so surprised like it is a new thing. This is politics. Whoever is in power will be attacked, discredited, slandered. All with the hope that the other party will make gains in the next election.

Hear! Hear! Amen!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What? But you did not "look to people like Jesus, Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi as examples" when you launched this latest attack on Trump.


Instead you took the Saul Alinsky way -- label your opponent the worst possible way, such as a dangerous sociopath, and then you can justify your every bad word and action against him. Tomorrow you can call him Hitler again. Then on Friday, welcoming in the weekend, you can be nice and only call him a narcissist.

Sorry, zeek, but why do you talk the "high road," and then actually take the gutter route every time? #BlindedByHate

I'm going by the lies and cruelty that Trump exhibits everyday. He's brought a new low in civility to the White House. Behead me as if I were John the Baptist; I will not lie to cover up the truth about this man.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I'm going by the lies and cruelty that Trump exhibits everyday. He's brought a new low of civility to the White House. Behead me as if I were John the Baptist I will not lie to cover up the truth about this man.

Funny to hear liberal progressives to talk about "the truth."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Funny to hear liberal progressives to talk about "the truth."

There you go with your Saul Alinsky tactics.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

There you go with your Saul Alinsky tactics.

Looks like your side had a bad day today. They're all so angry.

[awareness]

'God is racist,' Jewish people 'all descend from Satan,' NC candidate says

"RALEIGH
A website tied to a candidate for the North Carolina General Assembly says God is a racist white supremacist and that Jews are descended from Satan."
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/la...213937944.html

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Looks like your side had a bad day today. They're all so angry.

It depends where you look. But, yeah. Unemployment numbers are down now. But, there's a difference between long term and short term, and some of those changes in the numbers are short term, but some of the problems that we have are long term.

The costs of housing, child care, health care and college are outpacing salaries and threatening the livelihoods of middle class Americans. Middle class life is now 30 percent more expensive than it was 20 years ago. https://www.marketplace.org/2016/06/...t-more-it-used

And we're looking at a record amount of automation of formerly middle-class jobs by 2026, if the World Economic Forum is to be believed. That's one of the threats that is not being accounted for. The future looks bleak for most of today's children.

How many of the people whose job picture looks rosier are working multiple jobs and how much job security do those jobs have? From what I hear, many of the newly employed don't have pensions or any kind of future career trajectory from those jobs.

As long as the big picture in America looks like this you're gonna have a lot of unhappy frustrated people struggling to make ends meet regardless of their political party affiliations.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

It depends where you look. But, yeah. Unemployment numbers are down now. But, there's a difference between long term and short term, and some of those changes in the numbers are short term, but some of the problems that we have are long term.

The costs of housing, child care, health care and college are outpacing salaries and threatening the livelihoods of middle class Americans. Middle class life is now 30 percent more expensive than it was 20 years ago. https://www.marketplace.org/2016/06/...t-more-it-used

And we're looking at a record amount of automation of formerly middle-class jobs by 2026, if the World Economic Forum is to be believed. That's one of the threats that is not being accounted for. The future looks bleak for most of today's children.

How many of the people whose job picture looks rosier are working multiple jobs and how much job security do those jobs have? From what I hear, many of the newly employed don't have pensions or any kind of future career trajectory from those jobs.

As long as the big picture in America looks like this you're gonna have a lot of unhappy frustrated people struggling to make ends meet regardless of their political party affiliations.

http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-conten...ving-chart.jpg

However in 1975 about 45% of women were in the workforce, today it is 60%. So although the cost of a house has increased slightly, and median wage has decreased slightly taking into account inflation, it is important to also factor in the effect of doubling the wage earners in a middle class family.

Over the last 70 years the US GDP has averaged a growth rate of slightly more than 3%.

So in reality the economic outlook for a middle class family with two wage earners is significantly better than it was 50 years ago when they only had 1.

Also, it is true that cars appear to be much more expensive today than they were in 1975 when adjusting for inflation. However, they are also much safer and they last much longer. A car that ran for 100,000 miles in 1975 was a big thing, but that is no longer true. Today 200,000 miles is realistic if you care for your car. There are 11 cars that have not had a single fatality since 2014, that is an amazing improvement over 50-60 years ago when deaths during the Vietnam war were dwarfed by traffic fatalities.

Computers, the internet and robots have played a major role in keeping our GDP growing. It is very likely that AI, Quantum computers, drones and self driving vehicles will continue to propel that growth.

Also, although these new technologies take away jobs, they also open them up. Consider how many handicapped people can be productively employed today versus 50 or 100 years ago.

50 years ago the biggest threat to our economy was the trade deficit due to our dependence on oil. Today it is reasonable to think that the US could ultimately become energy self sufficient.

When NAFTA was approved we lost many jobs to cheap labor overseas. Today we can replace that cheap labor with 3d printers and robots.

So the only real issue with our economic outlook is that we are going to change and can expect dramatic changes to take place.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Looks like your side had a bad day today. They're all so angry.

Imagine how they'll act if Ruth Bader Ginsburg retires. Isn't she 85?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Imagine how they'll act if Ruth Bader Ginsburg retires. Isn't she 85?

I would then call it a slow moving coup.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I would then call it a slow moving coup.

We are talking about 9 Supreme court justices, I think slow moving limo would be more appropriate. No way they all fit into a coup.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-conten...ving-chart.jpg

However in 1975 about 45% of women were in the workforce, today it is 60%. So although the cost of a house has increased slightly, and median wage has decreased slightly taking into account inflation, it is important to also factor in the effect of doubling the wage earners in a middle class family.

Over the last 70 years the US GDP has averaged a growth rate of slightly more than 3%.

So in reality the economic outlook for a middle class family with two wage earners is significantly better than it was 50 years ago when they only had 1.

Also, it is true that cars appear to be much more expensive today than they were in 1975 when adjusting for inflation. However, they are also much safer and they last much longer. A car that ran for 100,000 miles in 1975 was a big thing, but that is no longer true. Today 200,000 miles is realistic if you care for your car. There are 11 cars that have not had a single fatality since 2014, that is an amazing improvement over 50-60 years ago when deaths during the Vietnam war were dwarfed by traffic fatalities.

Computers, the internet and robots have played a major role in keeping our GDP growing. It is very likely that AI, Quantum computers, drones and self driving vehicles will continue to propel that growth.

Also, although these new technologies take away jobs, they also open them up. Consider how many handicapped people can be productively employed today versus 50 or 100 years ago.

50 years ago the biggest threat to our economy was the trade deficit due to our dependence on oil. Today it is reasonable to think that the US could ultimately become energy self sufficient.

When NAFTA was approved we lost many jobs to cheap labor overseas. Today we can replace that cheap labor with 3d printers and robots.

So the only real issue with our economic outlook is that we are going to change and can expect dramatic changes to take place.

What people forget is that it is not a 1:1 relationship between jobs lost because of technology and new jobs created. One robot might replace 10 factory workers but only 1 new job created to monitor the robot. So there are 9 people left with nothing to do. This is made worse by the fact that the world's population is increasing. So in the future there could be robots doing everything and a huge population with nothing much to do. Only a fraction of those people will be needed to work in the technology, as robots will eventually be able to maintain or even re-create themselves. The basic income for everyone is coming, and the humans will be slave to the robot masters. People think of the robots as the slaves but it is the other way around. Because people are dependent on the robots, the robots become their master.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Imagine how they'll act if Ruth Bader Ginsburg retires. Isn't she 85?

If Trump replaced RBG with a solid conservative, he would be considered one of the greatest Presidents of all time. RBG is the worst Justice ever.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I would then call it a slow moving coup.

The slow moving coup, orchestrated by the Deep State, is beginning to unravel.


But don't worry about the SCOTUS. There has only been ONE SC justice in history who did NOT become more liberal over time. Any idea who that was?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

What people forget is that it is not a 1:1 relationship between jobs lost because of technology and new jobs created. One robot might replace 10 factory workers but only 1 new job created to monitor the robot. So there are 9 people left with nothing to do. This is made worse by the fact that the world's population is increasing. So in the future there could be robots doing everything and a huge population with nothing much to do. Only a fraction of those people will be needed to work in the technology, as robots will eventually be able to maintain or even re-create themselves. The basic income for everyone is coming, and the humans will be slave to the robot masters. People think of the robots as the slaves but it is the other way around. Because people are dependent on the robots, the robots become their master.

You can't look at this through a microscope. 100 years ago we had many jobs which are completely gone. Blacksmith is one example. The milkman used to deliver milk to your house, gone. Toll booth operator -- gone. Butler, Valet, Ladies maid, etc. But when we had blacksmiths we didn't have auto mechanics. Jobs are replaced when we become more efficient, being more efficient is good for everyone.

Yes, AI will replace many existing jobs, but at the same time there will be a huge demand for people to program the AI and design the objects that will be running AI. You have to be a lifelong learner and embrace change.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You can't look at this through a microscope. 100 years ago we had many jobs which are completely gone. Blacksmith is one example. The milkman used to deliver milk to your house, gone. Toll booth operator -- gone. Butler, Valet, Ladies maid, etc. But when we had blacksmiths we didn't have auto mechanics. Jobs are replaced when we become more efficient, being more efficient is good for everyone.

Yes, AI will replace many existing jobs, but at the same time there will be a huge demand for people to program the AI and design the objects that will be running AI. You have to be a lifelong learner and embrace change.

Even so, you don't need one AI programmer for every robot. A few programmers can write software for millions of robots.

Eventually the AI will be able to program itself. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to become an auto mechanic and it's unrealistic to expect everyone to become an AI programmer.

There's a good reason why governments are considering a basic income, because they know there will be lots of people without anything to do.

[zeek]

Shooter scores against the media in Annapolis.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Even so, you don't need one AI programmer for every robot. A few programmers can write software for millions of robots.

Eventually the AI will be able to program itself. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to become an auto mechanic and it's unrealistic to expect everyone to become an AI programmer.

There's a good reason why governments are considering a basic income, because they know there will be lots of people without anything to do.

During the civil war in the US the GDP of the North rose even though most of the men went to fight in the war. At the same time the GDP of the South collapsed even though most of the work was done by slaves who did not go to the war. Mechanization allowed women to do the farm work that used to require several men.

Ever since the industrial and technological revolutions people have been frightened that the changes would result in everyone losing their jobs, hence the term "luddite" due to a movement to destroy the machines.

But the machines have freed us up to do other work. Women no longer need to be drudges. Yes, their jobs of cooking and cleaning were to a large part replaced by machines, but that simply freed them up to do other work. What woman wants to return to a time of washboards and grinding flour?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

During the civil war in the US the GDP of the North rose even though most of the men went to fight in the war. At the same time the GDP of the South collapsed even though most of the work was done by slaves who did not go to the war. Mechanization allowed women to do the farm work that used to require several men.

Ever since the industrial and technological revolutions people have been frightened that the changes would result in everyone losing their jobs, hence the term "luddite" due to a movement to destroy the machines.

But the machines have freed us up to do other work. Women no longer need to be drudges. Yes, their jobs of cooking and cleaning were to a large part replaced by machines, but that simply freed them up to do other work. What woman wants to return to a time of washboards and grinding flour?

I know plenty of women who would prefer washing and cooking to programming AI. The technology is eroding the value of human beings in how they can contribute to the family/society/economy. Machines become more valuable and humans become less valuable by the measure of how they contribute to the economy or society. We see this already today where a company will spend hundreds of thousands on a robot and its maintenance but will pay their workers pittance.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I know plenty of women who would prefer washing and cooking to programming AI. The technology is eroding the value of human beings in how they can contribute to the family/society/economy. Machines become more valuable and humans become less valuable by the measure of how they contribute to the economy or society. We see this already today where a company will spend hundreds of thousands on a robot and its maintenance but will pay their workers pittance.

How are we becoming less valuable?

The standard of living of a an average US citizen is far better today than the standard of living of a Plantation owner in 1850. That is the result of the industrial revolution and technological revolution.

http://www.businessinsider.com/drive...-tesla-2017-11

Yes, self driving vehicles will eliminate many jobs for drivers. But it will also save us $300 billion in labor costs and also make the roads much safer. The driver needs to develop new skills, but he is being given 2-3 years warning before this really begins to bite. Embrace the change, otherwise you will be crushed by it.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

How are we becoming less valuable?

The standard of living of a an average US citizen is far better today than the standard of living of a Plantation owner in 1850. That is the result of the industrial revolution and technological revolution.

http://www.businessinsider.com/drive...-tesla-2017-11

Yes, self driving vehicles will eliminate many jobs for drivers. But it will also save us $300 billion in labor costs and also make the roads much safer. The driver needs to develop new skills, but he is being given 2-3 years warning before this really begins to bite. Embrace the change, otherwise you will be crushed by it.

It's unrealistic to expect drivers to re-skill and become AI programmers. That sort of skill takes years to master and not everyone has the aptitude.

Value is measured by how much a person contributes to the economy through what they can produce or how they can provide service. A person who is out of work due to robots, receiving a basic income or not, is not contributing anything therefore not valuable. This is why people who work in finance or business or medicine get paid more than artists and musicians or history professors (lol) who do not contribute much to the economy. As robots replace these jobs which are traditionally seen as valuable by what they can produce or provide service, then the robots become more valuable than the humans. A robot doctor would be more valuable than a human history professor, for example.

A woman who does not have to cook or clean for her husband is also less valuable to the husband than a robot which does the job instead. This is measuring value by how much she contributes to the household. This is the biblical measure of value, the proverbs 31 woman who is always busy and producing things. If she cannot do anything because the robot is doing it for her, then she is not valuable according to proverbs 31. In that case she becomes a burden. Now a woman who cannot cook or clean or do anything else is only good for pleasure, and such a woman is being replaced by robots too with the development of mechanical vaginas. Now that's one area which I don't understand why a man would want to replace a woman with a machine.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-conten...ving-chart.jpg

However in 1975 about 45% of women were in the workforce, today it is 60%. So although the cost of a house has increased slightly, and median wage has decreased slightly taking into account inflation, it is important to also factor in the effect of doubling the wage earners in a middle class family.

Over the last 70 years the US GDP has averaged a growth rate of slightly more than 3%.

So in reality the economic outlook for a middle class family with two wage earners is significantly better than it was 50 years ago when they only had 1.

Also, it is true that cars appear to be much more expensive today than they were in 1975 when adjusting for inflation. However, they are also much safer and they last much longer. A car that ran for 100,000 miles in 1975 was a big thing, but that is no longer true. Today 200,000 miles is realistic if you care for your car. There are 11 cars that have not had a single fatality since 2014, that is an amazing improvement over 50-60 years ago when deaths during the Vietnam war were dwarfed by traffic fatalities.

Computers, the internet and robots have played a major role in keeping our GDP growing. It is very likely that AI, Quantum computers, drones and self driving vehicles will continue to propel that growth.

Also, although these new technologies take away jobs, they also open them up. Consider how many handicapped people can be productively employed today versus 50 or 100 years ago.

50 years ago the biggest threat to our economy was the trade deficit due to our dependence on oil. Today it is reasonable to think that the US could ultimately become energy self sufficient.

When NAFTA was approved we lost many jobs to cheap labor overseas. Today we can replace that cheap labor with 3d printers and robots.

So the only real issue with our economic outlook is that we are going to change and can expect dramatic changes to take place.

Expenses that have gone up starts with housing and the cost of real estate, of homeownership. And then, it continues on with health care, which is, as you know, astronomical and then schooling. A public university cost double what it did in 1996. And that's not a fancy private school. So I think that's kind of very telling, and a lot of the people are weighted down by educational debt. If we think about what it means to be a professional, it often means having, at least college and then potentially graduate school. So a lot of professionals are struggling to pay off six figure college loans.

Surveys show that women with children make less money. It's probably due to employe prejudice that they're going to be less productive. We have such limited maternity leave compared to most industrialized countries. Only 13 to 14% of Americans have paid family leave in their jobs, so that's very small. Employers feel like, oh, once I hire somebody who has a kid, this is going to be a cascade of latenesses and absences - things that are really often untrue and just bias. Yet there was a Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis survey that found moms were more productive in their jobs than women without children.

And right now, two-thirds of women with kids under 6 are working. So that is a huge number. And those are kids who are often too young to be in kindergarten or even preschool. So that means that they're going to be needing day care. Of course the average cost varies from state to state. The Economic Policy Institute said the annual average cost of infant care in New York state is $14,000. So a New York family with one child pays 21 percent of their income on child care on average, and for two kids, that rises to 38.7 percent.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Shooter scores against the media in Annapolis.

Callous view of human life.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Callous view of human life.

The shooter's second amendment rights were protected; that's the important thing. A clear case of the second amendment trumping the first.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

The shooter's second amendment rights were protected; that's the important thing. A clear case of the second amendment trumping the first.

Little cold hearted and cynical?

But you're the shrink in these parts, so I'll continue your point of view ...

Apparently the shooter felt that this local news paper destroyed his reputation when they published an article about him years ago. He tried to sue them for defamation, but lost. If this preliminary reporting is true, then I would say that the news paper abused their first amendment rights, and then suffered the consequences when this crazy guy abused his second amendment rights.


EDIT: Further News has reported that this guy was obsessed with a former classmate and stalked her. Guy with mental issues like him has no right to possess firearms. The newspaper rightfully warned the public of the dangers he presented to the community. The judge readily dismissed his claims of defamation.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It's unrealistic to expect drivers to re-skill and become AI programmers. That sort of skill takes years to master and not everyone has the aptitude. .

Are you serious? How did you get that from what I wrote? Honestly, this is absurd.

Butlers, Cooks, Kitchen maids, these all became hotel workers. Valets and Ladies Maids, they became seamstresses, etc.

Journalists used to use a typewriter, then they used a computer. They used to have a library to find old pictures, articles, then it was microfiche, then it was digital.

It used to be that a chauffeur was also a mechanic. The business is not "trucking" but rather "shipping". It involves inventory, receipts, tracking, loading, unloading, scheduling, tracking, trucking, etc. Just because the trucks are going to be transitioning to self driving doesn't mean that people are no longer involved in the process. The fact that you drove a truck gives you insight and an advantage to move into these other positions.

Likewise, someone who can program AI is probably not suitable for driving a truck. Working with real truck drivers on simulations would probably be essential to designing the program. Likewise, we are now teaching AI by giving them data from which they can learn patterns. This data could be videotape from truckers who are driving.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Value is measured by how much a person contributes to the economy through what they can produce or how they can provide service. A person who is out of work due to robots, receiving a basic income or not, is not contributing anything therefore not valuable. This is why people who work in finance or business or medicine get paid more than artists and musicians or history professors (lol) who do not contribute much to the economy. As robots replace these jobs which are traditionally seen as valuable by what they can produce or provide service, then the robots become more valuable than the humans. A robot doctor would be more valuable than a human history professor, for example.

Unfortunately for these "high priced jobs" which you are referring to as "high valued jobs" are very likely to be replaced shortly. For example, any doctor with the assistance of Watson can now be very similar to the top "experts" and specialists in the country. Accountants and CPA's can easily be replaced with Watson so that the local CPA guy doing tax returns on the street corner can be every bit as adroit and expert. The same is true of stock brokers. But here is where this theory breaks down. You have to have a certain amount of training to be able to use these programs. It may be feasible, but certainly unreasonable, to think that the 350 million people in this country will have access to these sophisticated computer systems and know how to use them to their fullest potential. Therefore you will not be replacing jobs, instead you will be converting the average doctor, stock broker, CPA with experts without increasing the cost to the consumer.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Expenses that have gone up starts with housing and the cost of real estate, of homeownership. And then, it continues on with health care, which is, as you know, astronomical and then schooling. A public university cost double what it did in 1996. And that's not a fancy private school. So I think that's kind of very telling, and a lot of the people are weighted down by educational debt. If we think about what it means to be a professional, it often means having, at least college and then potentially graduate school. So a lot of professionals are struggling to pay off six figure college loans.

Surveys show that women with children make less money. It's probably due to employe prejudice that they're going to be less productive. We have such limited maternity leave compared to most industrialized countries. Only 13 to 14% of Americans have paid family leave in their jobs, so that's very small. Employers feel like, oh, once I hire somebody who has a kid, this is going to be a cascade of latenesses and absences - things that are really often untrue and just bias. Yet there was a Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis survey that found moms were more productive in their jobs than women without children.

And right now, two-thirds of women with kids under 6 are working. So that is a huge number. And those are kids who are often too young to be in kindergarten or even preschool. So that means that they're going to be needing day care. Of course the average cost varies from state to state. The Economic Policy Institute said the annual average cost of infant care in New York state is $14,000. So a New York family with one child pays 21 percent of their income on child care on average, and for two kids, that rises to 38.7 percent.

We had all of these issues in 1975, you haven't demonstrated that the economy is worse now than it was then.

Any reasonable person would agree that the life of the Average American is greatly improved from 200 years ago, and from 100 years ago. As the time frame gets shorter it is more difficult to see the drastic improvements. But there is plenty of evidence. My brother has a 1953 chevy pickup in excellent condition. No seat belts, no air bags, no side mirrors, and it is far less efficient.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The shooter's second amendment rights were protected; that's the important thing. A clear case of the second amendment trumping the first.

How? He shot people for ten minutes, the news has the freedom to talk about it for the next ten days.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Little cold hearted and cynical?

But you're the shrink in these parts, so I'll continue your point of view ...

Apparently the shooter felt that this local news paper destroyed his reputation when they published an article about him years ago. He tried to sue them for defamation, but lost. If this preliminary reporting is true, then I would say that the news paper abused their first amendment rights, and then suffered the consequences when this crazy guy abused his second amendment rights.

And now by abusing his second amendment rights he has justified the newspaper's abuse of their first amendment rights. If he thought that shooting up the paper was going to restore his good name he was greatly mistaken.

The only possible exception is if the newspaper story said that he was not crazy and that the rumors that he was a danger to society and should be locked up were not true. If that was the story that "damaged his reputation" then he has proven them wrong and restored his reputation.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Little cold hearted and cynical?

But you're the shrink in these parts, so I'll continue your point of view ...

Apparently the shooter felt that this local news paper destroyed his reputation when they published an article about him years ago. He tried to sue them for defamation, but lost. If this preliminary reporting is true, then I would say that the news paper abused their first amendment rights, and then suffered the consequences when this crazy guy abused his second amendment rights.

And I'll continue your POV. Hasn't the President of the United States called journalists "enemies of the people"? And how many times have you verbally attacked the evil media on this forum? So, of course, we should now justify the shooter, blame the victims and dissociate gun-toting-journalist-haters from the shooter's murderous act by calling him "crazy."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

How? He shot people for ten minutes, the news has the freedom to talk about it for the next ten days.

Uh, "the news" is an abstraction. Five actual flesh and blood human beings lost their lives. That ass-hole ended their free speech along with their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. One of the journalists murdered was Rob Hiaasen, Carl Hiaasen's brother.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

And I'll continue your POV. Hasn't the President of the United States called journalists "enemies of the people"? And how many times have you verbally attacked the evil media on this forum?

Fake News is the enemy of the people.

Should not I challenge lies? You call that "verbally attacked?"

Did you used to work for LSM? Are you going to sue me?

So, of course, we should now justify the shooter, blame the victims and dissociate gun-toting journalist haters from the shooter's murderous act by calling him "crazy."

The shrink now needs a shrink.

May I suggest that you just drink plain water instead of all that Kool-Aid?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We had all of these issues in 1975, you haven't demonstrated that the economy is worse now than it was then.

By that reckoning the lot of the average American hasn't improved in 43 years. It's a perfect time for a huge tax cut for billionaires and cuts to safety net programs, Social Security and Medicare.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Fake News is the enemy of the people.

Should not I challenge lies? You call that "verbally attacked?"

Did you used to work for LSM? Are you going to sue me?

The shrink now needs a shrink.

May I suggest that you just drink plain water instead of all that Kool-Aid?

Don't have to be a shrink to see that you're getting a little paranoid there buddy.

By the way, it wasn't Kool Aid that Jim Jones gave to his followers, it was Flavor Aid. Kool Aid was too expensive.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Uh, "the news" is an abstraction. Five actual flesh and blood human beings lost their lives. That ass-hole ended their free speech along with their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. One of the journalists murdered was Rob Hiaasen, Carl Hiaasen's brother.

We are talking about it right now, exercising our right to free speech.

No one violated the newspaper's right to free speech, he even sued the newspaper and the newspaper won.

The issue is that people assume that the exercise of this right is "free" without any cost. This event demonstrates that there is a high price that must be paid by journalists.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

By that reckoning the lot of the average American hasn't improved in 43 years. It's a perfect time for a huge tax cut for billionaires and cuts to safety net programs, Social Security and Medicare.

Social security and Medicare are examples of the "improvements" made.

Everyone agrees that Social Security in theory is better than what we had. The problem is that we are about to find out in practice if it is better.

This program put the entire countries retirement account in the hands of politicians. People that no reasonable person would allow to have access to their bank account. They have raided the cookie jar repeatedly, taking the money out and replacing it with an IOU, then taking the IOU out and replacing it with a second IOU, etc. If today the program was running great, projected to move along just fine for another 100 years then I would agree that it is a great program that needs to be protected.

But that is not the case. They are predicting that I will not be able to collect from this program even though I have been paying into it for decades. Why? Because the money was stolen. If that is the case then there is no way I agree to give them more money, only an idiot would let a thief rob them blind, and then agree to give more money to the thief.

As for tax reform I believe we have to completely overhaul our tax code so that the only tax paid is a sales tax. It is the simplest and most equitable tax. It completely avoids the concern about globalization and corporations moving their operations overseas. It would eliminate a huge bureaucracy along with all the jobs associated with tax preparation, audits, IRS, lawyers, etc. As a result it would save everyone in the country money. You could also allow certain essentials to be sold without sales tax (milk, eggs, etc) while luxury items could have a higher sales tax.

However, they won't do it. Why? It is cheaper, simpler, more equitable and more humane. Seems that Conservatives would have a lot to like, as well as libertarians, democrats, socialists, etc. No, the issue is that if you do this people will see exactly how much they are really paying in tax with every single purchase. As a result people are much more likely to become thrifty and stop buying so much junk. You would also see a black market for goods unless we could get Canada and Mexico to agree with us.

[ZNPaaneah]

Has anyone seen the ad "The Left is Unhinged"?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Has anyone seen the ad "The Left is Unhinged"?

Sure. Why?

Don't think that ad is off base. This is perhaps the "sanitized" part of the standard diet which millennial progressives consume every day. All of those segments received much air time when they came out.

Are you in NY 14th Congressional District which just dumped Joe Crowley (potentially the next House Speaker?) and nominated Ocasio-Cortez? Crowley was an old established Liberal Democrat who was totally upset by a millennial progressive.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Has anyone seen the ad "The Left is Unhinged"?

That's a pot kettle thing ... both left and right are unhinged ... as far as I'm concerned all on capital hill are unhinged.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sure. Why?

It shows that Democrats are their own worst enemy. Obviously it is not off base, it is simply a collage of quotes from the left.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's a pot kettle thing ... both left and right are unhinged ... as far as I'm concerned all on capital hill are unhinged.

First of all the Pot isn't even speaking, they are merely allowing the left to speak in a way that cannot be understood as anything other than unhinged.

Second, no solution will come from someone who is so cynical. If everyone on Capital hill is unhinged then what is the point of complaining about Trump?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

First of all the Pot isn't even speaking, they are merely allowing the left to speak in a way that cannot be understood as anything other than unhinged.

Second, no solution will come from someone who is so cynical. If everyone on Capital hill is unhinged then what is the point of complaining about Trump?

From the Beast:

Capital Gazette Survivor: I Don’t ‘Give a F*ck’ About Your Thoughts and Prayers
https://www.thedailybeast.com/capita...ts-and-prayers

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Are you serious? How did you get that from what I wrote? Honestly, this is absurd.

Butlers, Cooks, Kitchen maids, these all became hotel workers. Valets and Ladies Maids, they became seamstresses, etc.

Journalists used to use a typewriter, then they used a computer. They used to have a library to find old pictures, articles, then it was microfiche, then it was digital.

It used to be that a chauffeur was also a mechanic. The business is not "trucking" but rather "shipping". It involves inventory, receipts, tracking, loading, unloading, scheduling, tracking, trucking, etc. Just because the trucks are going to be transitioning to self driving doesn't mean that people are no longer involved in the process. The fact that you drove a truck gives you insight and an advantage to move into these other positions.

Likewise, someone who can program AI is probably not suitable for driving a truck. Working with real truck drivers on simulations would probably be essential to designing the program. Likewise, we are now teaching AI by giving them data from which they can learn patterns. This data could be videotape from truckers who are driving.



Unfortunately for these "high priced jobs" which you are referring to as "high valued jobs" are very likely to be replaced shortly. For example, any doctor with the assistance of Watson can now be very similar to the top "experts" and specialists in the country. Accountants and CPA's can easily be replaced with Watson so that the local CPA guy doing tax returns on the street corner can be every bit as adroit and expert. The same is true of stock brokers. But here is where this theory breaks down. You have to have a certain amount of training to be able to use these programs. It may be feasible, but certainly unreasonable, to think that the 350 million people in this country will have access to these sophisticated computer systems and know how to use them to their fullest potential. Therefore you will not be replacing jobs, instead you will be converting the average doctor, stock broker, CPA with experts without increasing the cost to the consumer.

You wrote before about huge demand for ai programmers and people needing to embrace change. Once robots and ai does everything where will the jobs be outside of servicing and programming robots? Because of dependency on robots and gradual de skilling of humanity, humans will be enslaved to their robot masters as servicing becomes more like serving. We see this enslavement already to a degree in the use of cell phones and the Internet..especially in young people.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Second, no solution will come from someone who is so cynical. If everyone on Capital hill is unhinged then what is the point of complaining about Trump?

Originally Posted by awareness

Capital Gazette Survivor: I Don’t ‘Give a F*ck’ About Your Thoughts and Prayers

What? awareness cynical? God forbid!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You wrote before about huge demand for ai programmers and people needing to embrace change. Once robots and ai does everything where will the jobs be outside of servicing and programming robots? Because of dependency on robots and gradual de skilling of humanity, humans will be enslaved to their robot masters as servicing becomes more like serving. We see this enslavement already to a degree in the use of cell phones and the Internet..especially in young people.

We used to have a huge amount of jobs in farming, they were replaced by machines.

[ZNPaaneah]

Trump SCOTUS pick should be grilled about Mueller probe 'before their rear end hits the chair,' says top Dem strategist

I would be extremely concerned about a "loyalty pledge". According to James it is the single biggest warning sign.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Social security and Medicare are examples of the "improvements" made.

Everyone agrees that Social Security in theory is better than what we had. The problem is that we are about to find out in practice if it is better.

This program put the entire countries retirement account in the hands of politicians. People that no reasonable person would allow to have access to their bank account. They have raided the cookie jar repeatedly, taking the money out and replacing it with an IOU, then taking the IOU out and replacing it with a second IOU, etc. If today the program was running great, projected to move along just fine for another 100 years then I would agree that it is a great program that needs to be protected.

But that is not the case. They are predicting that I will not be able to collect from this program even though I have been paying into it for decades. Why? Because the money was stolen. If that is the case then there is no way I agree to give them more money, only an idiot would let a thief rob them blind, and then agree to give more money to the thief.

As for tax reform I believe we have to completely overhaul our tax code so that the only tax paid is a sales tax. It is the simplest and most equitable tax. It completely avoids the concern about globalization and corporations moving their operations overseas. It would eliminate a huge bureaucracy along with all the jobs associated with tax preparation, audits, IRS, lawyers, etc. As a result it would save everyone in the country money. You could also allow certain essentials to be sold without sales tax (milk, eggs, etc) while luxury items could have a higher sales tax.

However, they won't do it. Why? It is cheaper, simpler, more equitable and more humane. Seems that Conservatives would have a lot to like, as well as libertarians, democrats, socialists, etc. No, the issue is that if you do this people will see exactly how much they are really paying in tax with every single purchase. As a result people are much more likely to become thrifty and stop buying so much junk. You would also see a black market for goods unless we could get Canada and Mexico to agree with us.

Your chronology is screwed up. The Social Security Act was enacted in 1935, and Medicare was established in 1965 long before your economic comparison marker of 1975. Also, while you admit that there has been wage stagnation since 1975, you ignore the fact that the cost of housing , medical care and education [essential components of middle class life] has risen astronomically during that period. Meanwhile the wealth at the top has gone up exponentially during the same period. This economic disparity is a major factor driving the dissatisfaction on among the middle and working classes and the poor across the political spectrum.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Your chronology is screwed up. The Social Security Act was enacted in 1935, and Medicare was established in 1965 long before your economic comparison marker of 1975. Also, while you admit that there has been wage stagnation since 1975, you ignore the fact that the cost of housing , medical care and education [essential components of middle class life] has risen astronomically during that period. Meanwhile the wealth at the top has gone up exponentially during the same period. This economic disparity is a major factor driving the dissatisfaction on among the middle and working classes and the poor across the political spectrum.

You were the one that mentioned Social Security and Medicare, I was responding to your post, not giving a time line.

My point is not that everything is peachy keen. My point is that there are two factors at play here, on one hand human civilization is evolving, and in a myriad of ways improving the standard of living of the majority. On the other hand human government is corrupt. The best human governments are like vultures, and the worst human governments are like dead corpses.

Science, engineering and technology are all improving at a rapid clip and as a result our GDP is continuing to grow year by year at a very healthy amount. On the other hand the US government is a dysfunctional group of crooks who have robbed the American people. The idea that giving the US government more in taxes or power is to my mind, idiotic.

No one can deny that Social Security proves the US government is not capable of being entrusted with our retirement savings. The Trillion dollar war in the middle East is proof that they are not capable of steering the US into the way of peace and prosperity. And it is part of a pattern (Vietnam war, Iran Contra, etc).

Box 13, JFK assassination, Watergate, 911 are all evidence that the US government winks at sin.

And, in my opinion, the US government is the best government. We have seen how awful German government can be. Middle Eastern govts are far, far worse than the US. Singapore is only a city, not large enough to be a fair comparison, and like all dictators once he is gone what happens then?

Perhaps Britain can compare favorably with the US but I would suggest that is only because they are so small and powerless. If you look at them when they were the empire where the sun never sets the comparison is not so favorable.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNP

On the other hand the US government is a dysfunctional group of crooks who have robbed the American people. The idea that giving the US government more in taxes or power is to my mind, idiotic.

Oh! A fellow cynic.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh! A fellow cynic.

No, I do not believe that all people are motivated by self interest. What I do feel that history teaches us is that our government is a system that has promoted corruption. Teddy Roosevelt had a big impact, Lincoln did all he could, but these men of character have fought a losing battle. In the last 60 years I can point to numerous events that should have gotten them fired, trillion dollar fiascos, and yet instead of getting fired they want to raise the amount of money we send their way.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

No, I do not believe that all people are motivated by self interest. What I do feel that history teaches us is that our government is a system that has promoted corruption. Teddy Roosevelt had a big impact, Lincoln did all he could, but these men of character have fought a losing battle. In the last 60 years I can point to numerous events that should have gotten them fired, trillion dollar fiascos, and yet instead of getting fired they want to raise the amount of money we send their way.

Oh do you mean that "conspiracy theory" during the "Russian Reset Button" when Obama, Clinton, et. al. sold 20% of our Uranium to the Russians in return for hundreds of $Millions? Then to cover it all up they framed President Trump and appointed Muller to get him?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh do you mean that "conspiracy theory" during the "Russian Reset Button" when Obama, Clinton, et. al. sold 20% of our Uranium to the Russians in return for hundreds of $Millions? Then to cover it all up they framed President Trump and appointed Muller to get him?

Yes. That is one excellent example of why I do not trust our government.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh do you mean that "conspiracy theory" during the "Russian Reset Button" when Obama, Clinton, et. al. sold 20% of our Uranium to the Russians in return for hundreds of $Millions? Then to cover it all up they framed President Trump and appointed Muller to get him?

Yeah! Obama, Clinton, and Mueller, should be impeached !!!!!!!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah! Obama, Clinton, and Mueller, should be impeached !!!!!!!

Lock 'em up!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Lock 'em up!

Engage in uncivil rhetoric that criminalizes your political opponents then complain about the incivility of others!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Engage in uncivil rhetoric that criminalizes your political opponents then complain about the incivility of others!

Watching what Muller did to Manafort, even Judge Ellis commented that Trump was the real goal, and they were hoping Manafort would "sing and compose."

In other words engage in prosecutorial abuse in order to coerce him to make up stories about Trump for Muller to ease the pressure. Manafort is in solitary confinement.

Muller and Andrew Weissmann have done this before. They knowingly left two innocent men to die in jail. Read their story.

In another case they knowingly destroyed Arthur Anderson, and thousands lost their jobs. Read their story.

Lock them up!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Watching what Muller did to Manafort, even Judge Ellis commented that Trump was the real goal, and they were hoping Manafort would "sing and compose."

In other words engage in prosecutorial abuse in order to coerce him to make up stories about Trump for Muller to ease the pressure. Manafort is in solitary confinement.

Muller and Andrew Weissmann have done this before. They knowingly left two innocent men to die in jail. Read their story.

In another case they knowingly destroyed Arthur Anderson, and thousands lost their jobs. Read their story.

Lock them up!

Sounds like really deep state. And Trump can't even drain the swamp. If this keeps up, he's gonna drown.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Sounds like really deep state. And Trump can't even drain the swamp. If this keeps up, he's gonna drown.

A group of President Donald Trump's most ardent supporters in the House of Representatives have sent a letter to the Norwegian Nobel Committee, formally nominating the President for a Nobel Peace Prize.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

A group of President Donald Trump's most ardent supporters in the House of Representatives have sent a letter to the Norwegian Nobel Committee, formally nominating the President for a Nobel Peace Prize.

But NK conned Trump. So no peace prize there.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But NK conned Trump. So no peace prize there.

Obama made some apologetic speech in Cairo to the Muslam world and everyone went crazy. The Europeans were convinced about peace in the Muslem world. A new world order. Give Obama the Nobel Peace Prize.

The very next year, however, in the very city in which Obama gave his speech, hell on earth broke out as Egyptians clashed with police and ousted president Mubarak. "Arab Spring" brought upheavals to Libya, Morocco, Syria, Egypt.

Make Obama give back the Prize!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obama made some apologetic speech in Cairo to the Muslam world and everyone went crazy. The Europeans were convinced about peace in the Muslem world. A new world order. Give Obama the Nobel Peace Prize.

The very next year, however, in the very city in which Obama gave his speech, hell on earth broke out as Egyptians clashed with police and ousted president Mubarak. "Arab Spring" brought upheavals to Libya, Morocco, Syria, Egypt.

Make Obama give back the Prize!

Nah. It's of ultimate importance to Trump to better that black president (or destroy everything he did). Just give Trump a better peace prize than Obama. In fact, give him the best peace prize in the history of peace prizes.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Nah. It's of ultimate importance to Trump to better that black president (or destroy everything he did). Just give Trump a better peace prize than Obama. In fact, give him the best peace prize in the history of peace prizes.

Has nothing to do with race.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Has nothing to do with race.

So Obama wasn't black?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Obama wasn't black?

Black ain't a race it's a shade darker than brown.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's a pot kettle thing ... both left and right are unhinged ... as far as I'm concerned all on capital hill are unhinged.

Nothing compared to Amanda Feilding running on a platform of "trepanation for the masses". So cheer up, things could be worse.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Obama wasn't black?

The guy who only sees color is a racist.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The guy who only sees color is a racist.

If only racists see that Obama is black then all Americans are racists.

Believe me (quoting Trump) Trump sees Obama as black.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

If only racists see that Obama is black then all Americans are racists.

Believe me (quoting Trump) Trump sees Obama as black.

Enough. If you can criticize Trump, Bush, Reagan, Nixon, etc. then you can also criticize Obama.

If you argue that criticizing Obama makes you racist, yet have no qualms about criticizing every other political leader, then that is by definition, racist.

Your position appears to the casual observer (me) to imply that Obama being black exempts him from any kind of critical analysis because "every american sees him as black". That is racist.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Enough. If you can criticize Trump, Bush, Reagan, Nixon, etc. then you can also criticize Obama.

I thought I was. I called him black.

Originally Posted by ZNP

If you argue that criticizing Obama makes you racist, yet have no qualms about criticizing every other political leader, then that is by definition, racist.

Your position appears to the casual observer (me) to imply that Obama being black exempts him from any kind of critical analysis because "every american sees him as black". That is racist.

How about if you question his birth place, and say he was born in Kenya? Is that racist?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

How about if you question his birth place, and say he was born in Kenya? Is that racist?

No, it is called forensics. Check it out.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No, it is called forensics. Check it out.

Do we apply the same forensics to Trump too?

[awareness]

This poll shows that 49% of voters think Trump is a racist :
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2554

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I thought I was. I called him black.

If you are equating that with a "criticism" then yes, you are racist.

Originally Posted by awareness

How about if you question his birth place, and say he was born in Kenya? Is that racist?

Maybe, that is not enough information.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Maybe, that is not enough information.

Let's add, blocking people of color, to the evidence ... all those "animals" "infecting" our country ... coming from "sh*tholes."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

This poll shows that 49% of voters think Trump is a racist :
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2554

This just shows the power of the media. 49% of the voters believe many falsehoods.

If 49% of the posters here believed ZNP was a racist, shouldn't they be forced to provide strong evidence of this?

Also, what is the definition of Racism? Sadly it has merely become mud to sling at others you disagree with. It really has little meaning anymore. With charges of racism, one is automatically guilty until proven innocent, unless one is a liberal, then they are always innocent.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Let's add, blocking people of color, to the evidence ... all those "animals" "infecting" our country ... coming from "sh*tholes."

Great description of the MS-13 Gang.

Please note that Maxine, by her own words, is also a wounded animal.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Let's add, blocking people of color, to the evidence ... all those "animals" "infecting" our country ... coming from "sh*tholes."

Yes, as we look at more and more of the evidence it appears to be xenophobia, rather than a specific racist idea.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great description of the MS-13 Gang.

Please note that Maxine, by her own words, is also a wounded animal.

I think Maxine has done irreparable harm to herself.

[Ohio]

Here's a decent article for those who desire to discriminate between Fact and fiction, as in FAKE NEWS.

How to Read the News: A Guide for Truth-Seekers

Here is an exerpt:

Because my home page is the website lucianne.com, I am able to access news sources from around the world. Although most of the subscribers to the site lean conservative, there is a healthy balance in the comments posted in response to the articles. Since President Trump’s election, it has become quite predictable to glean whether an article will be positive or negative simply by learning the news source. No matter what the actual news does report, certain sources will spin it with extreme bias. Here’s what I’ve learned about getting the real facts on current events.

No matter how successful the recent summit between President Trump and Kim Jong Un turns out, these publications will report it with a “Yes, but” analysis: The New York Times, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, the New York Daily News, Newsweek, Time, the Daily Mail (UK) and the Miami Herald. Online websites like Politico, Daily Beast, Salon, Media Matters and all the websites of the Major Networks (ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC MSNBC) will do the same. Even the formerly conservative National Review and the Weekly Standard have lost their credibility as right-leaning publications thanks to an abundance of Never Trumpers in charge. The New York Post may be the only local New York City print publication that has maintained a bipartisan editorial status.

The recent MSM and celebrity hysteria about the illegal immigrant children being separated from their alleged parents would have had some impact with voters had not the truth been exposed in the Internet on unbiased websites and twitter posts. Those pictures of immigrant children sleeping in cages brought tears (crocodile?) to MSNBC anchor Rachel Maddow, who apparently failed to note that these heartbreaking photos were taken in 2014 during the Obama administration. The detention center used by the Trump administration was a far cry from Obama’s if one viewed them on one of the more credible news sites like Breitbart.com.

The truth is out there, but without the Internet and some cable news channels, it’s very hard to find. If CNN and other leftwing news sources ever lose their access to airports and medical and social service offices, then perhaps there is a chance that the fake news they promote will have lost their captive audience. In the meantime if one is seeking the truth amidst all the hyperbole and hysteria about non existent events, one has to turn to the following online webzines:

Breitbart.com; Newsbusters.com; Daily Caller; Jewishworldreview.com; Americanthinker.com; foxnews.com; PJmedia.com; washintonexaminer.com, freebeacon.com; theconservativetreehouse.com; powelineblog.com;washintontimes.com. and Townhall.com and of course lucianne.com. Although most of these include opinion articles, they include substantial documentation. When I wrote for Breitbart, I was required to present credible documentation for my allegations. Likewise, when I wrote for the New York Sun, my editor made sure that any charges I made about an individual had to include their response to the issue.

Good news sites bolded in Black.
Biased news sites in Red.

.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's a decent article for those who desire to discriminate between Fact and fiction, as in FAKE NEWS.

How to Read the News: A Guide for Truth-Seekers

Here is an exerpt:

Good news sites bolded in Black.
Biased news sites in Red.

.

I guess the "cure for cancer" was simply a bonus to teaching us how to read the news. Shame that this "one cure for cancer" was covered up by the US govt.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's a decent article for those who desire to discriminate between Fact and fiction, as in FAKE NEWS.

How to Read the News: A Guide for Truth-Seekers

Here is an exerpt:

Good news sites bolded in Black.
Biased news sites in Red.

.

Wow, look at that! You have a new canon of holy books. And another one of unholy books to burn. You need that after coming out of so many years in the local church where they told you how to think every day.

The most important thing is to avoid thinking for yourself. Because, as you have been taught since you were a baby, you are sinful to the core, and every imagination of the thoughts of your heart is only evil continually.

The world is divided into two teams, the good and the evil. Everything depends on what team you're on. And thank the Lord, you're on the good team. Hallelujah! So, you must only listen to good team TRUTH.

The liberal progressive team is evil. Trump is the savior of the good team. The evil team hates him because he is powerful. He's going to bring back Jesus just like Witness Lee once promised the local church would.

You must continue to be a strong voice to win the ignorant alt views fools to the way of Truth. It all depends on who one listens to and they are listening to whe evil team. If only they would begin to listen to Good Team Truth, they might be saved when Trump brings on the coming day of Wrath!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Wow, look at that! You have a new canon of holy books. And another one of unholy books to burn. You need that after coming out of so many years in the local church where they told you how to think every day.

The most important thing is to avoid thinking for yourself. Because, as you have been taught since you were a baby, you are sinful to the core, and every imagination of the thoughts of your heart is only evil continually.

The world is divided into two teams, the good and the evil. Everything depends on what team you're on. And thank the Lord, you're on the good team. Hallelujah! So, you must only listen to good team TRUTH.

The liberal progressive team is evil. Trump is the savior of the good team. The evil team hates him because he is powerful. He's going to bring back Jesus just like Witness Lee once promised the local church would.

You must continue to be a strong voice to win the ignorant alt views fools to the way of Truth. It all depends on who one listens to and they are listening to whe evil team. If only they would begin to listen to Good Team Truth, they might be saved when Trump brings on the coming day of Wrath!

Talk about a bigoted, mean-spirited, demeaning attack on another poster!

I'm talking about accuracy in reporting. Obviously that scares you to death. Your biggest fear is the facts.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by zeek

Wow, look at that!

1. You have a new canon of holy books.
   
2. And another one of unholy books to burn.
   
3. You need that after coming out of so many years in the local church where they told you how to think every day.
   
4. The most important thing is to avoid thinking for yourself.
   
5. Because, as you have been taught since you were a baby, you are sinful to the core, and every imagination of the thoughts of your heart is only evil continually.
   
6. The world is divided into two teams, the good and the evil.
   
7. Everything depends on what team you're on.
   
8. And thank the Lord, you're on the good team. Hallelujah!
   
9. So, you must only listen to good team TRUTH.
   
10. The liberal progressive team is evil.
    
11. Trump is the savior of the good team.
    
12. The evil team hates him because he is powerful.
    
13. He's going to bring back Jesus just like Witness Lee once promised the local church would.
    
14. You must continue to be a strong voice to win the ignorant alt views fools to the way of Truth.
    
15. It all depends on who one listens to and they are listening to the evil team.
    
16. If only they would begin to listen to Good Team Truth, they might be saved when Trump brings on the coming day of Wrath!

I thought that was a pretty good summary of the way you think, Ohio. Tell me which of the 16 propositions is wrong and provide your true position on the issue.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I thought that was a pretty good summary of the way you think, Ohio. Tell me which of the 16 propositions is wrong and provide your true position on the issue.

There you go again, reverting back to your ingrained prejudices.

Aren't you a shrink? Is this how they operate?

[Ohio]

From my previous source ...

"It is a shame that we have to work so hard to learn the real facts of any incident, but the so-called free press that is protected by the Constitution has been so corrupted by unethical liberal bias. Immediately after the shooting at the Maryland newspaper, liberal pundits were blaming President Trump for his Twitter attacks on the media. The alleged shooter, Jarrod Ramos, had a vendetta against the newspaper and had lost a lawsuit against it. It matters not that his hate for the newspaper had been going on since 2012; the left does not let facts get in the way of their eternal campaign against the president."

The "unethical liberal bias" is not true because Trump points it out, rather it is true because the facts of history confirm it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There you go again, reverting back to your ingrained prejudices.

Aren't you a shrink? Is this how they operate?

I asked for you to correct the propositions that are wrong with statements of your true positions. This is in keeping with the best practice of communication. Try it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

From my previous source ...

"It is a shame that we have to work so hard to learn the real facts of any incident, but the so-called free press that is protected by the Constitution has been so corrupted by unethical liberal bias. Immediately after the shooting at the Maryland newspaper, liberal pundits were blaming President Trump for his Twitter attacks on the media. The alleged shooter, Jarrod Ramos, had a vendetta against the newspaper and had lost a lawsuit against it. It matters not that his hate for the newspaper had been going on since 2012; the left does not let facts get in the way of their eternal campaign against the president."

The "unethical liberal bias" is not true because Trump points it out, rather it is true because the facts of history confirm it.

Shame on the EVIL liberal team! [propositions #10 and #12, post # 3831]

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I asked for you to correct the propositions that are wrong with statements of your true positions. This is in keeping with the best practice of communication. Try it.

Serious? There is no basis for communication there in post #3831.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Serious? There is no basis for communication there in post #3831.

Sure there is. Just correct the points that are wrong. Then we'll have your genuine true beliefs on the issues.

[awareness]

I'm a mugwump. Let the good and the evil fight it out. I'm staying out of it. Like a neutral angel.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

From my previous source ...

"It is a shame that we have to work so hard to learn the real facts of any incident, but the so-called free press that is protected by the Constitution has been so corrupted by unethical liberal bias. Immediately after the shooting at the Maryland newspaper, liberal pundits were blaming President Trump for his Twitter attacks on the media. The alleged shooter, Jarrod Ramos, had a vendetta against the newspaper and had lost a lawsuit against it. It matters not that his hate for the newspaper had been going on since 2012; the left does not let facts get in the way of their eternal campaign against the president."

The "unethical liberal bias" is not true because Trump points it out, rather it is true because the facts of history confirm it.

Everyone of us is biased. If you think something is boring or interesting that expresses a bias. This is why we have to look at multiple sources, because we know that each and every writer has their personal bias, the lens through which they see the world and determine "truth".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Everyone of us is biased. If you think something is boring or interesting that expresses a bias. This is why we have to look at multiple sources, because we know that each and every writer has their personal bias, the lens through which they see the world and determine "truth".

So you would see no difference between "normal bias" and media slander, misinformation, presumption of guilt, inciting violence, smear campaigns, historical revisionism, etc.?

But I understand.

What happens when every one of your "multiple sources" all express the same "unethical liberal bias?"

[awareness]

Older people really ARE more racist: We become prejudiced as we age because we feel isolated and anxious about death

Scientists said hating a group can grant some elderly people a sense of identity

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ous-death.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Sure there is. Just correct the points that are wrong. Then we'll have your genuine true beliefs on the issues.

Correct the points that are wrong? Serious?


Hmmm. I once saw a youtube video of you playing a guitar, so I know that you are a white man from the South. You obviously are imbued with white privilege, hence a racist white supremacist, probably with strong ties to the Klan and former slave owners. You are a Southern Democrat who have historically stood against the emancipation of Negroes. You need to prove to me that this is not true. The evidence against you is overwhelming.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Older people really ARE more racist: We become prejudiced as we age because we feel isolated and anxious about death

Scientists said hating a group can grant some elderly people a sense of identity

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ous-death.html

Thank you for this pertinent and timely information.

This report provides strong overwhelming evidence that my assertions about zeek are well-founded and true. The proof that he is a Nazi sympathizer is conclusive.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thank you for this pertinent and timely information.

This report provides strong overwhelming evidence that my assertions about zeek are well-founded and true. The proof that he is a Nazi sympathizer is conclusive.

Yer a very funny guy bro Ohio. But aren't Nazi sympathizer's too right for the penultimate liberal???

But I have something funnier. Scott Pruitt resigned. On his way out he told Trump "You are serving as president today because of God's providence."

I don't know. I'm not the Bible man I use to be. I outgrew that. I could be wrong. But didn't Beelzebub say something similar about Jesus?

Trump loves Pruitt. He considers him his link to his Evangelical base. Pruitt's track record should tell you how far Evangelical's have strayed.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yer a very funny guy bro Ohio. But aren't Nazi sympathizer's too right for the penultimate liberal???
.

Yeah, just like zeek. More white privilege. Guilty as charged. 'Tucky Red Neck.

Racist. Hiding behind progressive dictates. Armed with your shotguns. Nother member of the Klan.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Older people really ARE more racist: We become prejudiced as we age because we feel isolated and anxious about death

Scientists said hating a group can grant some elderly people a sense of identity

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ous-death.html

Yes, as people age they feel isolated. This is why we should only allow elderly who are active members of a church community vote.

Thanks Awareness for this.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Correct the points that are wrong? Serious?

1. Hmmm. I once saw a youtube video of you playing a guitar, so I know that you are a white man from the South.

1. I play guitar.
   I am a white man.
   Like a lot of Floridians, I'm from the North.
   
   

   You obviously are imbued with white privilege,

   I think white privilege is something that society confers not something a person is imbued with. Since I look "white", I probably benefit from it in some situations. Likewise, "male privilege" to the extent that exists and applies in social situations.
   
   

   hence a racist white supremacist,

   That doesn't follow from the previous proposition. I think race is a social construct. Am I completely free of racism? Probably not. We all have prejudices we were enculturated into as children. These often operate unconsciously, but, we can sometimes become aware of them upon reflection. When we become conscious of them, we can decide whether to accept or reject them. If we accept them, we become actively racist. I choose to reject them.
   
   

   probably with strong ties to the Klan and

   If anyone I know is a Klan member, I'm not aware of it.
   
   

   former slave owners.

   My father's family came from Alsace-Lorraine in 1871. My mother's family from England, though Massachusetts, Buffalo to Michigan. If they owned slaves I am unaware of it. A great, great, great grandfather fought on the side of the Yankees [not the baseball team].
   
   

   You are a Southern Democrat who have historically stood against the emancipation of Negroes.

   True. As Bob Dylan said "The Times They Are A-Changin'"
   

   You need to prove to me that this is not true.

   I didn't ask you to prove anything--just to correct me, like I just did you.
   

   The evidence against you is overwhelming.

   No doubt. Lock me up!

[awareness]

Let's come back to something that relates to us LCer's.

One of Trump's top picks for the Supreme is 46 yr old Amy Coney Barrett.

Amy is a character that we might relate to. She and her family "are members of in a controversial religious group that asks members to take a lifetime loyalty 'covenant', encourages female submission to their husbands, and helped inspire publication of The Handmaid's Tale, a dystopian novel about theocratic government" : a small cult that goes by "People of Praise."

Trump's female Supreme Court favorite belongs to a Christian group which helped inspire The Handmaid's Tale and tells her to submit to her husband - and members believe they healed teen girl by laying on of hands
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aids-Tale.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Let's come back to something that relates to us LCer's.

One of Trump's top picks for the Supreme is 46 yr old Amy Coney Barrett.

Amy is a character that we might relate to. She and her family "are members of in a controversial religious group that asks members to take a lifetime loyalty 'covenant', encourages female submission to their husbands, and helped inspire publication of The Handmaid's Tale, a dystopian novel about theocratic government" : a small cult that goes by "People of Praise."

Trump's female Supreme Court favorite belongs to a Christian group which helped inspire The Handmaid's Tale and tells her to submit to her husband - and members believe they healed teen girl by laying on of hands
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aids-Tale.html

You calling all Christians a cult -- yup that relates to us LCers!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Let's come back to something that relates to us LCer's.

Why not just wait until Monday to hear who the nominee is?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why not just wait until Monday to hear who the nominee is?

Trump will pick a brilliant constitutional jurist. It will be the end of the world. Perhaps Armageddon. At least for Progressives. If they lose their "right" to slaughter the unborn, they will go apoplectic. So much compassion for children separated for two weeks at the border from illegal immigrant human traffickers, yet absolutely no compassion for those violently yanked from the safety of their mother's womb. Hypocrites! Murderers!

Trump may be a tough, pugnacious counter-puncher who fights for America, but he has proven to be a compassionate and kind leader towards the weak and the hurting. He is not like the Obama administration that locks up children in cages.

[Ohio]

The new face of Leftist Progressivism:

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump will pick a brilliant constitutional jurist.

Prolly the most brilliant jurist in the history of jurists ... of course.

Originally Posted by Ohio

If they lose their "right" to slaughter the unborn, they will go apoplectic. So much compassion for children separated for two weeks at the border from illegal immigrant human traffickers, yet absolutely no compassion for those violently yanked from the safety of their mother's womb. Hypocrites! Murderers!

Are you calling my sister a murderer? Cuz she doesn't believe in abortion but supports choice?

But I know your rant : "Fertilized eggs are human beings. Fertilized eggs are human beings ; with more rights than the biological parents ... and more rights than children after they are born ; Life begins at the appetizer" ... that sort of thing.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump may be a tough, pugnacious counter-puncher who fights for America, but he has proven to be a compassionate and kind leader towards the weak and the hurting. He is not like the Obama administration that locks up children in cages.

Bahahahahaha !!!!!

[zeek]

At a rally in Montana, the ever kindly Donald Trump took aim at George H. W. Bush's slogan "thousand points of light," which Bush popularized during his presidential campaign. It later became the titular phrase for Bush's volunteerism organization.
"You know all of the rhetoric you see. 'Thousands points of light.' What the hell was that by the way?" Trump said.
"Thousand points of light," he said. "What does that mean? I know one thing. 'Make America Great Again' we understand. Putting America first we understand. Thousand points of light, I never quite got that one. What the hell is that? Has anyone ever figured that one out? It was put out by a Republican, wasn't it?"
Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, who worked for President George W. Bush, called the remarks "so uncalled for."

[zeek]

More grace from the compassionate Saint Donald. On with the "Horror Show"! The Trump administration has quietly decided to reverse an Obama-era rule banning Americans from importing body parts of African elephants killed for sport.

It comes after Donald Trump branded big game trophy hunting a “horror show” last year, and suggested he would not allow the move to go ahead.

In November, the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) announced it would lift a ban on elephants imported from Zimbabwe and Zambia, maintaining wealthy hunters would help raise money for conservation efforts.

A public outcry at the decision prompted the US President to intervene. “Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week,” Mr Trump said on Twitter.

“But will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants (sic) or any other animal.”

But more than three months later, Ryan Zinke, the Interior Secretary, issued a letter dated 1 March announcing the importing of elephant trophies would now be approved on a "case-by-case basis”.

The letter cites a December ruling in a long-running lawsuit challenging the ban filed by Safari Club International and the lobbying arm of the National Rifle Association.

Mr Zinke recently told people privately that Mr Trump has called him several times to discuss what to do about elephant trophies. Neither the Interior Department nor FWS issued a press release over the last week to announce the decision, which was quickly condemned by environmental advocates.

"The Trump administration is trying to keep these crucial trophy import decisions behind closed doors, and that's totally unacceptable," said Tanya Sanerib, international legal director at the Center for Biological Diversity. "Elephants aren't meant to be trophies, they're meant to roam free."

Mr Trump's two adult sons are trophy hunters. A photo of Donald Trump Jr holding a knife and the bloody severed tail of an elephant he reportedly killed in Zimbabwe in 2011 sparked outrage among animal rights activists.

Mr Zinke is an avid hunter, who after arriving at the Interior Department last year ordered the arcade game "Big Buck Hunter Pro" to be installed in the employee cafeteria at the agency's Washington headquarters, a move he said would promote wildlife and habitat conservation.

In June, the department removed longstanding protections for grizzly bears near Yellowstone National Park, a step that potentially allows them to be hunted. The Fish and Wildlife Service also quietly began issuing permits in October allowing African lions killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia to be imported. Previously, only wild lions killed in South Africa were eligible.

The world's largest land mammal, the African elephant has been classified as threatened under the US Endangered Species Act since 1979. A licensed two-week African elephant hunt can cost more than $50,000 per person, not including airfare, according to advertised rates.

Illicit demand for elephant ivory has led to devastating losses from illegal poaching as the natural habitat available for the animals to roam has also dwindled by more than half. As a result, the number of African elephants has shrunk from about 5 million a century ago to about 400,000 remaining. And that number continues to decline each year.

According to the United Nations, as many as 100,000 African elephants were killed between 2010 and 2012. For forest elephants, the population declined by an estimated 62 per cent between 2002 and 2011.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8243361.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

At a rally in Montana, the ever kindly Donald Trump took aim at George H. W. Bush's slogan "thousand points of light," which Bush popularized during his presidential campaign. It later became the titular phrase for Bush's volunteerism organization.
"You know all of the rhetoric you see. 'Thousands points of light.' What the hell was that by the way?" Trump said.
"Thousand points of light," he said. "What does that mean? I know one thing. 'Make America Great Again' we understand. Putting America first we understand. Thousand points of light, I never quite got that one. What the hell is that? Has anyone ever figured that one out? It was put out by a Republican, wasn't it?"
Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, who worked for President George W. Bush, called the remarks "so uncalled for."

You Democrats mocked Bush 41 constantly for his statement about "thousand points of light." Obviously when Trump was a NY Democrat he heard this mocking of Bush all the time.

So you are now criticizing Trump for agreeing with you?

I can't blame Trump here. All the Bush's were silent on Obama, supposedly out of respect for the office, yet have condemned Trump. The Bush's apparently are all swamp creatures.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

More grace from the compassionate Saint Donald. On with the "Horror Show"! The Trump administration has quietly decided to reverse an Obama-era rule banning Americans from importing body parts of African elephants killed for sport.

It comes after Donald Trump branded big game trophy hunting a “horror show” last year, and suggested he would not allow the move to go ahead.

In November, the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) announced it would lift a ban on elephants imported from Zimbabwe and Zambia, maintaining wealthy hunters would help raise money for conservation efforts.

A public outcry at the decision prompted the US President to intervene. “Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week,” Mr Trump said on Twitter.

“But will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants (sic) or any other animal.”

But more than three months later, Ryan Zinke, the Interior Secretary, issued a letter dated 1 March announcing the importing of elephant trophies would now be approved on a "case-by-case basis”.

The letter cites a December ruling in a long-running lawsuit challenging the ban filed by Safari Club International and the lobbying arm of the National Rifle Association.

Mr Zinke recently told people privately that Mr Trump has called him several times to discuss what to do about elephant trophies. Neither the Interior Department nor FWS issued a press release over the last week to announce the decision, which was quickly condemned by environmental advocates.

"The Trump administration is trying to keep these crucial trophy import decisions behind closed doors, and that's totally unacceptable," said Tanya Sanerib, international legal director at the Center for Biological Diversity. "Elephants aren't meant to be trophies, they're meant to roam free."

Mr Trump's two adult sons are trophy hunters. A photo of Donald Trump Jr holding a knife and the bloody severed tail of an elephant he reportedly killed in Zimbabwe in 2011 sparked outrage among animal rights activists.

Mr Zinke is an avid hunter, who after arriving at the Interior Department last year ordered the arcade game "Big Buck Hunter Pro" to be installed in the employee cafeteria at the agency's Washington headquarters, a move he said would promote wildlife and habitat conservation.

In June, the department removed longstanding protections for grizzly bears near Yellowstone National Park, a step that potentially allows them to be hunted. The Fish and Wildlife Service also quietly began issuing permits in October allowing African lions killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia to be imported. Previously, only wild lions killed in South Africa were eligible.

The world's largest land mammal, the African elephant has been classified as threatened under the US Endangered Species Act since 1979. A licensed two-week African elephant hunt can cost more than $50,000 per person, not including airfare, according to advertised rates.

Illicit demand for elephant ivory has led to devastating losses from illegal poaching as the natural habitat available for the animals to roam has also dwindled by more than half. As a result, the number of African elephants has shrunk from about 5 million a century ago to about 400,000 remaining. And that number continues to decline each year.

According to the United Nations, as many as 100,000 African elephants were killed between 2010 and 2012. For forest elephants, the population declined by an estimated 62 per cent between 2002 and 2011.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8243361.html

You love your elephants more than people Saint ZEEK.

You murder the unborn, then cry foul about elephant rights.

Obviously SAINT ZEEK GEMMER feels the elephants have more rights than people do. Pathetic!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You Democrats mocked Bush 41 constantly for his statement about "thousand points of light." Obviously when Trump was a NY Democrat he heard this mocking of Bush all the time.

So you are now criticizing Trump for agreeing with you?

I can't blame Trump here. All the Bush's were silent on Obama, supposedly out of respect for the office, yet have condemned Trump. The Bush's apparently are all swamp creatures.

Of course you can't blame Trump. Post 3831 explains why.
Prop #11 Trump is the savior of The Good Team.
Prop # 12 The Evil Team hates him because he is powerful.
Prop #13 He's going to bring back Jesus.

Of course the Bush's are Swamp Creatures. By criticizing Trump they became traitors against The Good Team. "Swamp Creatures" and "The Deep State" are members of the Evil Team who work in the Federal Government.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You love your elephants more than people Saint ZEEK.

You murder the unborn, then cry foul about elephant rights.

Obviously SAINT ZEEK GEMMER feels the elephants have more rights than people do. Pathetic!

Good point. I shoot the unborn every time they threaten the lives of elephants.

Jesus said if your eye offend thee, pluck it out, or hand offended thee, cut it off. The unborn are offending all the other species, cut 'em off. That's what Jesus said to do.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You love your elephants more than people Saint ZEEK.

You murder the unborn, then cry foul about elephant rights.

Obviously SAINT ZEEK GEMMER feels the elephants have more rights than people do. Pathetic!

Of course to you I'm a murderer. You have assigned me to The Evil Team. Everything follows from that according to the Ohioan Creed. [See post 3831]

6.The world is divided into two teams, the good and the evil.
7.Everything depends on what team you're on.
8. And thank the Lord, Ohio is on The Good Team. Hallelujah!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Of course to you I'm a murderer. You have assigned me to The Evil Team. Everything follows from that according to the Ohioan Creed. [See post 3831]

6.The world is divided into two teams, the good and the evil.
7.Everything depends on what team you're on.
8. And thank the Lord, Ohio is on The Good Team. Hallelujah!

That's right. You are an accomplice to murder by offering your undying support to those who murder the unborn, and stand against all those who would try to protect them. The Bible says to "choose life," but you choose death, claiming it is a "right."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Of course the Bush's are Swamp Creatures. By criticizing Trump they became traitors against The Good Team.

Only a Swamp Creature would condemn a President for Nativism -- placing the rights of American citizens and legal immigrants above those of illegal aliens.

You condemned Dubya mercilessly. So do you now worship him for criticizing Trump?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's right. You are an accomplice to murder by offering your undying support to those who murder the unborn, and stand against all those who would try to protect them. The Bible says to "choose life," but you choose death, claiming it is a "right."

Such wild, baseless accusations. Are you feeling OK? I'm concerned about you. You seem to be coming unhinged.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Such wild, baseless accusations. Are you feeling OK? I'm concerned about you. You seem to be coming unhinged.

Did I miss something? Show me where you have rejected the slaughter of the unborn. Did not Tom Perez the DNC Chair publicly state that your Democratic Party would never support another Right-To-Life candidate?

I thought you were a smart guy. Obviously you can't connect the dots. To vote for any Democrat is to vote for a supporter of the slaughter of the unborn. It's that simple. They obviously understand what you do not.

And I am unhinged? Have you given up the news this summer? Perhaps you are also out there on the streets protesting ICE and Trump's next SCOTUS pick over the abortion issue.

[Ohio]

Progressive Meltdown
The Left Can’t Come to Grips with Loss of Power

There’s no better explanation for the current progressive meltdown. Key Trump administration officials have been confronted at restaurants. Representative Maxine Waters (D., Calif.) urged protesters to hound Trump officials at restaurants, gas stations, or department stores. Progressive pundits and the liberal media almost daily think up new ways of characterizing President Trump as a Nazi, fascist, tyrant, or buffoon. Celebrities openly fantasize about doing harm to Trump.

What is behind the unprecedented furor? Just as Barack Obama was not a centrist, neither is Trump. Obama promised to fundamentally transform the United States. Trump pledged to do the same and more — but in the exact opposite direction. The Trump agenda enrages the Left in much the same manner that Obamacare, the Obama tax hikes, Obama’s liberal Supreme Court picks, and the Iran nuclear deal goaded the Right. Yet the current progressive meltdown is about more than just political differences. The outrage is mostly about power — or rather, the utter and unexpected loss of it. In 2009, Obama seemed to usher in a progressive revolution for a generation. Democrats controlled the House. They had a super-majority in the Senate. Obama had a chance to ensure a liberal majority on the Supreme Court for years.

Democrats had gained on Republicans at the state and local levels. The media, universities, professional sports, Hollywood, and popular culture were all solidly left-wing. A Republican had not won 51 percent of the popular vote in a presidential election since George H.W. Bush’s 1988 defeat of Democrat Michael Dukakis. Before 2016, Republicans had lost the popular vote in five of the previous six presidential elections.

And then visions of a generation of progressive grandeur abruptly vanished. Obama left behind a polarized nation. Democrats lost both the House and the Senate. During Obama’s tenure, Democrats lost more than 1,000 seats at the state level. Presumptive winner Hillary Clinton blew the 2016 presidential election. Foolishly, Clinton tried to ensure a landslide victory by wasting precious campaign time in unwinnable red states such as Arizona and Georgia. Meanwhile, she too often neglected winnable purple states such as Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, all of which Obama had won in 2008 and 2012. Clinton apparently forgot that the Electoral College, not the popular vote, elects a president.

After his election, President Trump did not implode as predicted. By following the Obama precedent of relying on executive orders, Trump began recalibrating everything from immigration enforcement to energy development.

Abroad, Trump did what no other Republican president would have dared, bombing ISIS into submission, canceling the Iran deal, seeking to denuclearize North Korea, pulling out of the Paris climate accord, and moving the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

The U.S. economy took off with new tax cuts and deregulation. Radical improvement in unemployment, economic growth, and oil and natural-gas production created new consumer and business confidence.

Despite his frequent crudeness, Trump is inching toward a 50 percent approval rating in a few polls. That has only made an impotent opposition grow even more furious — both at the other half of the country for supporting Trump, and at a buoyant Trump himself for baiting and ridiculing progressives in the fashion of no prior president.

Worse still, much of the loss of progressive power was at least partly self-inflicted. Former Democratic Senate majority leader Harry Reid foolishly dropped the number of votes needed to overcome a filibuster for executive appointments and most judicial nominations in 2013. That blunder ensured Republicans the chance to remake the Supreme Court when they took over the Senate in 2014. Obama chose not to try to win over his opposition, but to alienate it by veering hard left in his second term. Hillary Clinton foolishly got herself into a number of personal scandals that embarrassed her party and helped lead to her defeat.

In reaction to the sudden loss of political power, Democrats would have been wise to run to the center, as did Bill Clinton, who all but ended the era of the Reagan Republicans. They could have dropped their obsession with identity politics and instead attempted to win over blue-collar voters with more inclusive class appeals rather than racial appeals. Instead, Democrats have endlessly replayed the 2016 election. In Groundhog Day fashion, Hillary Clinton repeatedly offered tired excuses for her loss.

To progressives, Trump became not an opponent to be beaten with a better agenda, but an evil to be destroyed. Moderate Democrats were written off as dense; left-wing fringe elements were praised as clever. Voters in 2016 bristled at redistribution, open borders, bigger government, and higher taxes, but progressives are now promising those voters even more of what they didn’t want. Furious over the sudden and unexpected loss of power, enraged progressives have so far done almost everything to lose even more of it. And that paradox only leads to more furor. -- V. D. Hanson

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Did I miss something? Show me where you have rejected the slaughter of the unborn. Did not Tom Perez the DNC Chair publicly state that your Democratic Party would never support another Right-To-Life candidate?

You're flaming, bro. I'll answer you in kind, just to illustrate what you're doing. You voted for Republicans who denied guaranteed prenatal and postnatal care for every mother and child in America. Therefore, you murdered every mother, fetus and newborn that died due to inability to afford health care in this country. You claim to care about the unborn, but your opposition to universal perinatal care shows you don't. Ergo, you're not only a murderer, you're also a hypocrite. Now, was that helpful?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Progressive Meltdown
The Left Can’t Come to Grips with Loss of Power

There’s no better explanation for the current progressive meltdown. Key Trump administration officials have been confronted at restaurants. Representative Maxine Waters (D., Calif.) urged protesters to hound Trump officials at restaurants, gas stations, or department stores. Progressive pundits and the liberal media almost daily think up new ways of characterizing President Trump as a Nazi, fascist, tyrant, or buffoon. Celebrities openly fantasize about doing harm to Trump.

What is behind the unprecedented furor? Just as Barack Obama was not a centrist, neither is Trump. Obama promised to fundamentally transform the United States. Trump pledged to do the same and more — but in the exact opposite direction. The Trump agenda enrages the Left in much the same manner that Obamacare, the Obama tax hikes, Obama’s liberal Supreme Court picks, and the Iran nuclear deal goaded the Right. Yet the current progressive meltdown is about more than just political differences. The outrage is mostly about power — or rather, the utter and unexpected loss of it. In 2009, Obama seemed to usher in a progressive revolution for a generation. Democrats controlled the House. They had a super-majority in the Senate. Obama had a chance to ensure a liberal majority on the Supreme Court for years.

Democrats had gained on Republicans at the state and local levels. The media, universities, professional sports, Hollywood, and popular culture were all solidly left-wing. A Republican had not won 51 percent of the popular vote in a presidential election since George H.W. Bush’s 1988 defeat of Democrat Michael Dukakis. Before 2016, Republicans had lost the popular vote in five of the previous six presidential elections.

And then visions of a generation of progressive grandeur abruptly vanished. Obama left behind a polarized nation. Democrats lost both the House and the Senate. During Obama’s tenure, Democrats lost more than 1,000 seats at the state level. Presumptive winner Hillary Clinton blew the 2016 presidential election. Foolishly, Clinton tried to ensure a landslide victory by wasting precious campaign time in unwinnable red states such as Arizona and Georgia. Meanwhile, she too often neglected winnable purple states such as Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, all of which Obama had won in 2008 and 2012. Clinton apparently forgot that the Electoral College, not the popular vote, elects a president.

After his election, President Trump did not implode as predicted. By following the Obama precedent of relying on executive orders, Trump began recalibrating everything from immigration enforcement to energy development.

Abroad, Trump did what no other Republican president would have dared, bombing ISIS into submission, canceling the Iran deal, seeking to denuclearize North Korea, pulling out of the Paris climate accord, and moving the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

The U.S. economy took off with new tax cuts and deregulation. Radical improvement in unemployment, economic growth, and oil and natural-gas production created new consumer and business confidence.

Despite his frequent crudeness, Trump is inching toward a 50 percent approval rating in a few polls. That has only made an impotent opposition grow even more furious — both at the other half of the country for supporting Trump, and at a buoyant Trump himself for baiting and ridiculing progressives in the fashion of no prior president.

Worse still, much of the loss of progressive power was at least partly self-inflicted. Former Democratic Senate majority leader Harry Reid foolishly dropped the number of votes needed to overcome a filibuster for executive appointments and most judicial nominations in 2013. That blunder ensured Republicans the chance to remake the Supreme Court when they took over the Senate in 2014. Obama chose not to try to win over his opposition, but to alienate it by veering hard left in his second term. Hillary Clinton foolishly got herself into a number of personal scandals that embarrassed her party and helped lead to her defeat.

In reaction to the sudden loss of political power, Democrats would have been wise to run to the center, as did Bill Clinton, who all but ended the era of the Reagan Republicans. They could have dropped their obsession with identity politics and instead attempted to win over blue-collar voters with more inclusive class appeals rather than racial appeals. Instead, Democrats have endlessly replayed the 2016 election. In Groundhog Day fashion, Hillary Clinton repeatedly offered tired excuses for her loss.

To progressives, Trump became not an opponent to be beaten with a better agenda, but an evil to be destroyed. Moderate Democrats were written off as dense; left-wing fringe elements were praised as clever. Voters in 2016 bristled at redistribution, open borders, bigger government, and higher taxes, but progressives are now promising those voters even more of what they didn’t want. Furious over the sudden and unexpected loss of power, enraged progressives have so far done almost everything to lose even more of it. And that paradox only leads to more furor. -- V. D. Hanson

Hooray for the Good Team! They're beating the Evil Team!

This follows from the Ohioan Creed items #6, #7 and #8.

The world is divided into two teams, the good and the evil.
Everything depends on what team you're on.
And, thank the Lord, Ohio is on the Good Team. Hallelujah!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You're flaming, bro. I'll answer you in kind, just to illustrate what you're doing. You voted for Republicans who denied guaranteed prenatal and postnatal care for every mother and child in America. Therefore, you murdered every mother, fetus and newborn that died due to inability to afford health care in this country. You claim to care about the unborn, but your opposition to universal perinatal care shows you don't. Ergo, you're not only a murderer, you're also a hypocrite. Now, was that helpful?

Huge difference between slaughtering the unborn and requiring the parents to take care of their own children. Apparently accountability and responsibility are only conservative values, and I guess that's difficult for you to comprehend. But, I understand, you progressive Democrats demand a Nanny-State because your socialist voters are so irresponsible.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Hooray for the Good Team! They're beating the Evil Team!

Pretty good summary of the last two years, eh?


Sorry your team is doing so bad. Why don't you vote some decent people in for a change.


Team Democrat couldn't win on a Hate-Trump platform, so they now have this platform:

• Abolish ICE border guards
• End the war on drugs
• Medicare for all
• Free healthcare
• Tuition free university
• Cancel all student debts
• Minimum wage at $15
• Legalize marijuana
• Guaranteed jobs and housing
• Socialist wealth distribution
• Open borders
• End minority incarcerations
• Outlaw coal and fracking

Poor Hilary lost because she was a "Capitalist."

[Ohio]

Democrat Team is so tired of losing every day that they are rapidly becoming violent.

Democrat Man Allegedly Threatened to Kill Long Island Trump Supporters

Resorting to violence is all they got left since their leaders are so pitiful.

Look what Obama did to Team ZEEK. EEK!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Pretty good summary of the last two years, eh?


Sorry your team is doing so bad. Why don't you vote some decent people in for a change.


Team Democrat couldn't win on a Hate-Trump platform, so they now have this platform:

• Abolish ICE border guards
• End the war on drugs
• Medicare for all
• Free healthcare
• Tuition free university
• Cancel all student debts
• Minimum wage at $15
• Legalize marijuana
• Guaranteed jobs and housing
• Socialist wealth distribution
• Open borders
• End minority incarcerations
• Outlaw coal and fracking

Poor Hilary lost because she was a "Capitalist."

You do realize that you just confirmed my theory of your Ohioan Creed? You're the one who thinks there's a good team and an evil team not me. I'm not a political duelist like you are. I think the two party system has outlived its usefulness in America. The partisan stalemate between the two major political parties has contributed to a socioeconomic situation in this country that resulted in the populist demagogue's rise to power.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Democrat Team is so tired of losing every day that they are rapidly becoming violent.

Democrat Man Allegedly Threatened to Kill Long Island Trump Supporters

Resorting to violence is all they got left since their leaders are so pitiful.

Look what Obama did to Team ZEEK. EEK!

More of the same. You see me as kind of a shadow projection of yourself. You're Shadow Boxing. I'm not there buddy.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Huge difference between slaughtering the unborn and requiring the parents to take care of their own children. Apparently accountability and responsibility are only conservative values, and I guess that's difficult for you to comprehend. But, I understand, you progressive Democrats demand a Nanny-State because your socialist voters are so irresponsible.

You're just overgeneralizing about conditions which are different in an infinite number of particular situations that you don't know. You presuppose that if someone is poor it's because they are irresponsible. And in that case you're perfectly okay with denying help to them even if it means the death of babies, fetuses, children or mothers. So cut the crap about compassion for the unborn cuz it's inconsistent with your worldview as a whole.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You do realize that you just confirmed my theory of your Ohioan Creed? You're the one who thinks there's a good team and an evil team not me. I'm not a political duelist like you are. I think the two party system has outlived its usefulness in America. The partisan stalemate between the two major political parties has contributed to a socioeconomic situation in this country that resulted in the populist demagogue's rise to power.

If I were on your failing team, I'd disown them too.

Kind of like admitting I grew up in Cleveland during football season.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

More of the same. You see me as kind of a shadow projection of yourself. You're Shadow Boxing. I'm not there buddy.

You are there alright. Just hiding in the shadows.

Your not honest either. You hate everything about Trump, and say nothing bad about Obama or his policies, but then you pretend you're not on the team. Bogus!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You're just overgeneralizing about conditions which are different in an infinite number of particular situations that you don't know. You presuppose that if someone is poor it's because they are irresponsible. And in that case you're perfectly okay with denying help to them even if it means the death of babies, fetuses, children or mothers. So cut the crap about compassion for the unborn cuz it's inconsistent with your worldview as a whole.

All I get from you is over-generalizations. You lump me together with all the evangelicals, conservatives, Republicans, and Trumpers. You project all of your prejudices on me, but you're too blind to recognize it.

I'm just doing what you have been doing for months, and now you are outraged? More like faux-raged! Listening to you is like watching Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You are there alright. Just hiding in the shadows.

Your not honest either. You hate everything about Trump, and say nothing bad about Obama or his policies, but then you pretend you're not on the team. Bogus!

You're the one that's hiding. I hate Trump's cruelty, his bullying tactics and the blame game he plays on everyone to avoid taking responsibility himself. In my life I've never seen a president do that. He beats Nixon on that score.

I certainly liked Obama better than Trump. But, I wasn't uncritical of him. Ask Harold. I'm not uncritically accepting of anybody, not even myself. But I wasn't going to fuel the fire of your hatred which seem to be based on racism as much as anything else.

When you posted what you thought were my positions in post # 3842 I corrected you with the facts. I already asked you to do the same for post 3831 but you wouldn't. Why not? You could have clarified exactly where you stand on all those issues. But, you didn't because you're hiding. Why?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If I were on your failing team, I'd disown them too.

Kind of like admitting I grew up in Cleveland during football season.

Both parties are corrupt at the top and failing the country. You're so busy defending that you can't see it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

All I get from you is over-generalizations. You lump me together with all the evangelicals, conservatives, Republicans, and Trumpers. You project all of your prejudices on me, but you're too blind to recognize it.

That's why I asked you to correct my assessment of your viewpoint but you wouldn't do it.

I'm just doing what you have been doing for months, and now you are outraged? More like faux-raged! Listening to you is like watching Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.

Outraged? Wha? I'm outraged that we humans are destroying this life on this planet. I'm just talking with you. Why should I be outraged? You accused me of murder and hypocrisy. No big deal. I've seen you go after everybody on this site at one time or another except UntoHim. You kick down and kiss up. Typical authoritarian personality behavior. Nothing new. Even lobsters have dominance hierarchies as Jordan Peterson notes.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You're the one that's hiding. I hate Trump's cruelty, his bullying tactics and the blame game he plays on everyone to avoid taking responsibility himself. In my life I've never seen a president do that. He beats Nixon on that score.

I certainly liked Obama better than Trump. But, I wasn't uncritical of him. Ask Harold. I'm not uncritically accepting of anybody, not even myself. But I wasn't going to fuel the fire of your hatred which seem to be based on racism as much as anything else.

When you posted what you thought were my positions in post # 3842 I corrected you with the facts. I already asked you to do the same for post 3831 but you wouldn't. Why not? You could have clarified exactly where you stand on all those issues. But, you didn't because you're hiding. Why?

There you go again. Anyone who dares to criticize Obama and his failed policies -- is a -- is a -- gotta be a -- we all know it -- he's a RACIST! That's right -- he's a racist!

You have never corrected me with facts. You have never stated any. You can only cite liberal progressive links which condemn Trump, evangelicals, or conservatives.

You can have the last word.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There you go again. Anyone who dares to criticize Obama and his failed policies -- is a -- is a -- gotta be a -- we all know it -- he's a RACIST! That's right -- he's a racist!

No bro. You have made overtly racist statements over the years. That's what I went by.

You have never corrected me with facts. You have never stated any. You can only cite liberal progressive links which condemn Trump, evangelicals, or conservatives.

Yes I did. I numbered the points you made and countered them with facts after you refused to do the same with the points I had made previously.

You can have the last word.

Booyah!

[zeek]

"Secretary of State Mike Pompeo seemingly failed to gain a single concession from North Korea after meetings Friday and Saturday in the communist nation’s capital of Pyongyang to discuss America’s demand that the North get rid its nuclear weapons." Is anyone surprised? Trump's meeting with Kim was devoid of substance.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...-them-bad.html

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Secretary of State Mike Pompeo seemingly failed to gain a single concession from North Korea after meetings Friday and Saturday in the communist nation’s capital of Pyongyang to discuss America’s demand that the North get rid its nuclear weapons." Is anyone surprised? Trump's meeting with Kim was devoid of substance.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...-them-bad.html

Fundamental misunderstanding on Trump's part - North Korea thinks that America must get rid of its weapons as well and thinks that is the deal that Trump made. When they realize that America is not keeping their side of the deal by reducing their nuclear weapons, they won't reduce theirs either.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Fundamental misunderstanding on Trump's part - North Korea thinks that America must get rid of its weapons as well and thinks that is the deal that Trump made. When they realize that America is not keeping their side of the deal by reducing their nuclear weapons, they won't reduce theirs either.

America is going the opposite of denuclearization. So is China and Russia.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

America is going the opposite of denuclearization. So is China and Russia.

Now that NK is a nuclear power, the US should engage them in the same way they engage with China or Russia - by denuclearization treaties that apply to all parties.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Now that NK is a nuclear power, the US should engage them in the same way they engage with China or Russia - by denuclearization treaties that apply to all parties.

You're forgetting that Trump love bombed little Rocket Man ... all huggie and kissy ... and when that love bombing goes unrequited, Trump hits back 10 times harder. Forget Kim Jong Un. It's Trump that won't ever denuclearize. And he's just as unpredictable as littl' Kim.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

You're forgetting that Trump love bombed little Rocket Man ... all huggie and kissy ... and when that love bombing goes unrequited, Trump hits back 10 times harder. Forget Kim Jong Un. It's Trump that won't ever denuclearize. And he's just as unpredictable as littl' Kim.

His unpredictability is fairly predictable in a sense.

[zeek]

TRUMP IS A CHILD ABUSER

Kids as young as 1 in US court, awaiting reunion with family.

The 1-year-old boy in a green button-up shirt drank milk from a bottle, played with a small purple ball that lit up when it hit the ground and occasionally asked for “agua.”

Then it was the child’s turn for his court appearance before a Phoenix immigration judge, who could hardly contain his unease with the situation during the portion of the hearing where he asks immigrant defendants whether they understand the proceedings.

“I’m embarrassed to ask it, because I don’t know who you would explain it to, unless you think that a 1-year-old could learn immigration law,” Judge John W. Richardson told the lawyer representing the 1-year-old boy.

The boy is one of hundreds of children who need to be reunited with their parents after being separated at the border, many of them split from mothers and fathers as a result of the Trump administration’s “zero-tolerance policy.” The separations have become an embarrassment to the administration as stories of crying children separated from mothers and kept apart for weeks on end dominated the news in recent weeks.

https://www.apnews.com/4cb60fc06ca34...gEmail__070918

[zeek]

Don't forget TRUMP IS A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. North Korea's nuclear threat remains real and unabated.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Don't forget TRUMP IS A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. North Korea's nuclear threat remains real and unabated.

I don't think NK has actually ever been a real existential threat to America. Lot's of big talk but have you seen NK rockets? They look like fireworks.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't think NK has actually ever been a real existential threat to America. Lot's of big talk but have you seen NK rockets? They look like fireworks.

Did I mention America? What about South Korea, Japan and other allies of the United States in the region? Are North Korean nukes an existential threat to them? Do you think that matters?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Did I mention America? What about South Korea, Japan and other allies of the United States in the region? Are North Korean nukes an existential threat to them? Do you think that matters?

Everyone matters. That's why the world needs to denuclearize. NK just wants to be right up there with the big boys. Nukes are out of the bag. Maybe all the king's men and all the king's horses can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Maybe we can't stop NK. Maybe what we got all worked up over was just a Trump Real TV photo op.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The media protected Obama from all his past sins, while megaphoning all of Trumps. Unfortunately lefties refuse to acknowledge this. Slowly the independents are seeing thru the massive smear machine.

While I agree with ZNP's criticism of Trump from the last line of his post in #3513, there is a transparent discrepancy in regard to the media's projection of Obama versus the media's projection of Trump. Hypocrisy through and through.

[zeek]

At least Trump didn't pick the handmaiden.

[awareness]

Green Day’s ‘American Idiot’ Is Topping UK Charts Upon Trump’s Visit
A British campaign to taunt the U.S. president seems to be working.

[zeek]

Why did Trump pick Kavanaugh? No big mystery there. In a 2009 law review article Kavanaugh suggested providing sitting presidents with a temporary deferral from civil suits and criminal prosecutions and investigations. That had to be music to Trump's ears.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Why did Trump pick Kavanaugh? No big mystery there. In a 2009 law review article Kavanaugh suggested providing sitting presidents with a temporary deferral from civil suits and criminal prosecutions and investigations. That had to be music to Trump's ears.

Had Trump selected Merrick Garland you could have found some horrible, evil, or wicked motive to ascribe to Trump.

You have a "wicked eye," all you see is evil. (Mark 7.22)

[zeek]

The more powerful a nation grows, the greater the need for humility.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Had Trump selected Merrick Garland you could have found some horrible, evil, or wicked motive to ascribe to Trump.

You have a "wicked eye," all you see is evil. (Mark 7.22)

..."And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" Jesus

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You have a "wicked eye," all you see is evil. (Mark 7.22)

Someone that sees more than half of America as evil has no room to call others evil eye.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Someone that sees more than half of America as evil ...

Just how many zeeks are there? 160 million?

But this is exactly what you and the poster zeek have continually done, ascribing every manner of evil to Trump, his administration, his voters, Republicans, conservatives, evangelicals, etc.

Or perhaps you are naive as to what you have written?

Let me remind you of some of these things: ignorance, xenophobia, bias, psychopath, stupidity, racism, anti-Christ, idiocy, misogyny, islamophobia, pathological liar, etc.

You regularly pass on the identity politics of character assassination which you pick up from the media. Sorry if you are no "awareness" of what you are doing. Just because you are in the majority on this sub-forum, doesn't make what you do correct. Or honest.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

..."And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" Jesus

How do I know you are even a brother?

But OK. I'll start using your line on every one of your posts.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How do I know you are even a brother?

But OK. I'll start using your line on every one of your posts.

Good to have you back after your long hiatus, bro.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Good to have you back after your long hiatus, bro.

Yeah. We need our liberal hater.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah. We need our liberal hater.

"Liberal hater"is a double entendre. It can mean one who hates liberals or a liberal that hates. Ohio has claimed that I'm a liberal hater of the second kind. My mother taught me never to use the word hate. But it's true I hate injustice. I hate violence. I hate when bullies prey on those who are weaker. I hate what humanity is doing to the environment we live in most particularly to the other sentient living beings. I hate that because I love not only humanity but the other living creatures as well. When they suffer I suffer with them. So I'll plead guilty to being a liberal hater in the second sense because I'm a liberal lover as well. To love others is to hate what hurts them.

[ZNPaaneah]

Novartis paid Cohen $1.2 million for his advice. So to all those haters out there who thought he was some kind of stupid tough guy, you must be feeling pretty stupid right now.

[ZNPaaneah]

Mueller's indictment of the 12 Russian hackers does not rule out the possibility of some 300 lb fat kid in his parents basement, just like Donald said. Not until we know how heavy these Russians are and where they live.

[zeek]

After doing Putin's work by insulting the leaders of NATO, the UK and the US Presidents who preceded him, Trump should receive high marks from his Puppet-master. Too bad they are meeting secretly so we won't be privy too their possible further collusion. In a further attempt to sow division among our allies, Trump told Prime Minister Theresa May that she should sue the EU and not go into negotiations. Fox News did their usual propaganda job of diverting attention from Trump's failing European tour by focusing on Obama. http://video.foxnews.com/v/580947765...#sp=show-clips

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

After doing Putin's work by insulting the leaders of NATO, the UK and the US Presidents who preceded him, Trump should receive high marks from his Puppet-master. Too bad they are meeting secretly so we won't be privy too their possible further collusion. In a further attempt to sow division among our allies, Trump told Prime Minister Theresa May that she should sue the EU and not go into negotiations. Fox News did their usual propaganda job of diverting attention from Trump's failing European tour by focusing on Obama. http://video.foxnews.com/v/580947765...#sp=show-clips

How do you square this with the Obama/Clinton "Reset" in 2009 when we gave them 20% of our Uranium and Obama's mockery of Mitt Romney in 2012, "the 1980's called and wants it's foreign policy back"?

The facts all point to Putin the Puppet-master manipulating our Press, and Clinton manipulating Putin into buying our Uranium for hundreds of millions, with the proceeds going into personal accounts like the Clinton Foundation.

Even Jake Tapper awoke temporarily to ask if Obama was "asleep at the switch" during Russian meddling.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How do you square this with the Obama/Clinton "Reset" in 2009 when we gave them 20% of our Uranium and Obama's mockery of Mitt Romney in 2012, "the 1980's called and wants it's foreign policy back"?

The facts all point to Putin the Puppet-master manipulating our Press, and Clinton manipulating Putin into buying our Uranium for hundreds of millions, with the proceeds going into personal accounts like the Clinton Foundation.

Even Jake Tapper awoke temporarily to ask if Obama was "asleep at the switch" during Russian meddling.

Yeah, I'm for impeaching Obama and Clinton.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah, I'm for impeaching Obama and Clinton.

Good idea. Impeach all three of them at once - Obama, Clinton and Trump - a Triune Impeachment as it were.

[zeek]

President Trump, standing beside Vladimir Putin, did him a huge favor by refusing to say whether he believed U.S. intelligence or Russia on election interference in 2016.

Top congressional Republicans sharply criticized President Donald Trump Monday after he cast doubt on Russian interference in the 2016 election during a press conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“Missed opportunity by President Trump to firmly hold Russia accountable for 2016 meddling and deliver a strong warning regarding future elections,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), who often advocates for Mr. Trump on Capitol Hill, said on Twitter. https://www.wsj.com/articles/republi...ing-1531764090

John McCain tweeted: "Today’s press conference in #Helsinki was one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory." And on his website added:

"No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant"

In a strongly-worded statement, US House Speaker Paul Ryan said Mr. Trump "must appreciate that Russia is not our ally".

"There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals," he said, adding that there was "no question" Moscow had interfered in the 2016 election.

"The United States must be focused on holding Russia accountable and putting an end to its vile attacks on democracy."

Look for damage control for members of the Trump personality cult on "Hannity" and "Fox and Friends" tomorrow morning.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah, I'm for impeaching Obama and Clinton.

Originally Posted by zeek

Good idea. Impeach all three of them at once - Obama, Clinton and Trump - a Triune Impeachment as it were.

I knew I would find reasoned and intelligent discussion here.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I knew I would find reasoned and intelligent discussion here.

We're just following you're lead, bro.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

We're just following you're lead, bro.

Don't you know the difference between "your" and "you're"?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Don't you know the difference between "your" and "you're"?

Among your many lovely traits you are also a pedant. Unlike you I occasionally make mistakes.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

President Trump, standing beside Vladimir Putin, did him a huge favor by refusing to say whether he believed U.S. intelligence or Russia on election interference in 2016.

Top congressional Republicans sharply criticized President Donald Trump Monday after he cast doubt on Russian interference in the 2016 election during a press conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“Missed opportunity by President Trump to firmly hold Russia accountable for 2016 meddling and deliver a strong warning regarding future elections,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), who often advocates for Mr. Trump on Capitol Hill, said on Twitter. https://www.wsj.com/articles/republi...ing-1531764090

John McCain tweeted: "Today’s press conference in #Helsinki was one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory." And on his website added:

"No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant"

In a strongly-worded statement, US House Speaker Paul Ryan said Mr. Trump "must appreciate that Russia is not our ally".

"There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals," he said, adding that there was "no question" Moscow had interfered in the 2016 election.

"The United States must be focused on holding Russia accountable and putting an end to its vile attacks on democracy."

Look for damage control for members of the Trump personality cult on "Hannity" and "Fox and Friends" tomorrow morning.

I have heard that some have said that this press conference constitutes "collusion". But I am not so sure. The standard definition of collusion is that the cooperation is "secret". What Trump did today and before when he asked Russia to hack the DNC was public, not "secret".

I also saw that Newt Gingrich rebuked this and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to find a stronger supporter of Trump without digging into IQ levels below 90. Even one of the Fox hosts called it disgraceful! I think what irked these ones so much is that Trump broke their cardinal rule, he was open and public about his support for Putin.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have heard that some have said that this press conference constitutes "collusion". But I am not so sure. The standard definition of collusion is that the cooperation is "secret". What Trump did today and before when he asked Russia to hack the DNC was public, not "secret".

Whether any substantive collusion went on between the two behind closed doors we may never know. Trump did much to increase Putin's status and prestige in Russia and on the world stage. Putin spoke first as if he were the leader of the world's most powerful nation. Who else does Trump defer to? No one that I can think of. Who does Trump think he is? F***ing Neville [Ohio...check my spelling on that would ya?] Chamberlain meeting with Hitler? He insults the European heads of state, calls them foes and then compliments this murderer as a good competitor? Competitor at what? Russia ranks something like 23rd in terms of trade. Whenever we slap a sanction on Russia, Europe suffers more than the USA. Anyway, Putin looks like he might be willing to throw some "intelligence officers" under the bus, to help us out. Isn't that sweet? If Trump had set out to make himself look like a stupid dupe, he couldn't have done better than this. Stable genius my ass.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Whether any substantive collusion went on between the two behind closed doors we may never know. Trump did much to increase Putin's status and prestige in Russia and on the world stage. Putin spoke first as if he were the leader of the world's most powerful nation. Who else does Trump defer to? No one that I can think of. Who does Trump think he is? F***ing Neville [Ohio...check my spelling on that would ya?] Chamberlain meeting with Hitler? He insults the European heads of state, calls them foes and then compliments this murderer as a good competitor? Competitor at what? Russia ranks something like 23rd in terms of trade. Whenever we slap a sanction on Russia, Europe suffers more than the USA. Anyway, Putin looks like he might be willing to throw some "intelligence officers" under the bus, to help us out. Isn't that sweet? If Trump had set out to make himself look like a stupid dupe, he couldn't have done better than this. Stable genius my ass.

“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”

Cute. It was a propaganda victory for Putin. Trump's supporters like him because he projects strength. Here he was deferential and used conciliatory language that made him look weak. So even those who would support him if he shot somebody on 5th Avenue are like

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Cute. It was a propaganda victory for Putin. Trump's supporters like him because he projects strength. Here he was deferential and used conciliatory language that made him look weak. So even those who would support him if he shot somebody on 5th Avenue are like

He never received 50% of the vote, the only reason more republicans haven't defected is for selfish reasons. Already a number of the Republicans have spoken out and condemned this, including the leaders of the party and even those who publicly supported Trump. We no longer need Mueller, the coordination between Trump and Putin is there for all to see. I would like to believe that sanity will return to this country during the upcoming election. I would also like to believe that with all this smoke there must be a fire and Mueller will soon indict it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

He never received 50% of the vote, the only reason more republicans haven't defected is for selfish reasons. Already a number of the Republicans have spoken out and condemned this, including the leaders of the party and even those who publicly supported Trump. We no longer need Mueller, the coordination between Trump and Putin is there for all to see. I would like to believe that sanity will return to this country during the upcoming election. I would also like to believe that with all this smoke there must be a fire and Mueller will soon indict it.

I feel ya bro. I hope so too. But, majority will have to beat him. It's not like Trump and his supporters are just gonna lay down and let it happen. Or that the rest of the voters are going to win because they're right and he's wrong. He must be defeated. The political will must be there and be translated into effective action.

[zeek]

"At their joint press conference, President Putin was calculated and in control. Conversely, President Trump seemed to lack authority, praising Putin when he should have been condemning him, and ceding opportunities to confront Putin on his most egregious actions of the past decade – including meddling in the 2016 election and the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014."

"For a sitting U.S. president to say publicly that he believes a foreign leader over his own intelligence team is shocking and admonishable. At a time when our democracy faces grave threats, it is deeply troubling that the president would side with the very country who attacked us."

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...st-russia.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I feel ya bro. I hope so too. But, majority will have to beat him. It's not like Trump and his supporters are just gonna lay down and let it happen. Or that the rest of the voters are going to win because they're right and he's wrong. He must be defeated. The political will must be there and be translated into effective action.

I don't believe that Putin or Trump wanted all of this to be on the front page of the news. To me that is evidence that they are losing, not winning.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't believe that Putin or Trump wanted all of this to be on the front page of the news. To me that is evidence that they are losing, not winning.

He's losing alright. The New York Times reports that the Justice Department announced espionage charges against a Russian woman who tried to broker Trump-Putin meetings during the 2016 campaign. But Trump's performance yesterday was a self-inflicted wound... An impeachable high crime and misdemeanor against the United States on the world stage. By the way where is Ohio? Hiding in shame? Who will correct my spelling?

[awareness]

Here's how a sensible president deals with Putin :

[Evangelical]

I must have laughed for a good 5 mins after reading about the giant cheese puff meeting with Putin.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I must have laughed for a good 5 mins after reading about the giant cheese puff meeting with Putin.

His "clarifying" remarks today reminded me of that braggart we all knew in HS who got totally whipped and humiliated like a coward and then a few hours later is trying to pretend like we all didn't see his humiliation.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

His "clarifying" remarks today reminded me of that braggart we all knew in HS who got totally whipped and humiliated like a coward and then a few hours later is trying to pretend like we all didn't see his humiliation.

Right. Trump's attempt to erase the damage from his disgusting traitorous performance only made him look more stupid. Or is it stupider? Ohio?

[zeek]

Asked today by reporters at the start of a Cabinet meeting if Russia is still targeting the U.S., Trump shook his head and answered "no." That's counter to a warning issued by his director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats, who said last week that "the warning signs are there. The system is blinking," and that "today, the digital infrastructure that serves this country is literally under attack." Now he's denying that's what he meant. Trump is a master of the implausible denial.

[ZNPaaneah]

I would hate to work in the Whitehouse. I have close friends who were quite high up during Clinton's Whitehouse and others who are currently very highly placed in the Senate. Behind the scenes they are cringing at what is going on, but publicly they are doing the best they can to keep a poker face.

“It is impossible to overstate the disdain for Trump and anyone associated with him in elite circles in the Northeast and on the West Coast.” https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-de...161957861.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Here's how a sensible president deals with Putin :

President Obama got caught in private conversation with a hot mic today in Seoul, South Korea, telling outgoing Russian president Dmitry Medvedev that Vladimir Putin should give him more "space" and that "[a]fter my election I have more flexibility."

Here is the exchange caught on a "hot" mike:

President Obama: "On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space."
President Medvedev: "Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…"
President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."
President Medvedev: "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir [Putin], and I stand with you."

[Ohio]

Deep State operative gets rewarded by the Democrats ...

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here is the exchange caught on a "hot" mike:

President Obama: "On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space."
President Medvedev: "Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…"
President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."
President Medvedev: "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir [Putin], and I stand with you."

Personally I don't see why all the indignation over Trump saying that when he said "would" he really meant "would not". I think it is great.

Perhaps the American voters would like to clarify what they really meant when they voted in 2016? Maybe Melania misspoke when she said "I do". This opportunity to take back what we said yesterday but now realize was a mistake today, that could be Trump's greatest legacy.

[Evangelical]

I just think he's out of his depth and making it up as he goes along. His gut instinct as a businessman. Still even in business I wouldn't want to be saying what he says. "okay then, it's a deal, I'll draw up the contract". "Sorry! I meant to say it's not a deal, and was talking about something else when I referred to the contract". He was born rich (not self-made), thinks he's good at something which he isn't (he's not such a great businessman), and tries to be the President. When he's standing next to real leaders (the Queen, Putin, etc), it becomes obvious to everyone. Whether it's walking in front of the Queen so she has to run around him, or saying stupid things, it's just not professional. Worse he's forced himself into a corner now that he's offended everyone who were considered allies, the EU and NATO won't want to touch him.

Unlike Trump, Witness Lee understood the importance of containing Russia and Russia's nature in the world. If we consider Witness Lee's view of Russia and God's purpose, Trump's befriending and assisting Russia and going against NATO allies is not doing God's purpose and helping the gospel.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I just think he's out of his depth and making it up as he goes along. His gut instinct as a businessman. Still even in business I wouldn't want to be saying what he says. "okay then, it's a deal, I'll draw up the contract". "Sorry! I meant to say it's not a deal, and was talking about something else when I referred to the contract". He was born rich (not self-made), thinks he's good at something which he isn't (he's not such a great businessman), and tries to be the President. When he's standing next to real leaders (the Queen, Putin, etc), it becomes obvious to everyone. Whether it's walking in front of the Queen so she has to run around him, or saying stupid things, it's just not professional. Worse he's forced himself into a corner now that he's offended everyone who were considered allies, the EU and NATO won't want to touch him.

Unlike Trump, Witness Lee understood the importance of containing Russia and Russia's nature in the world. If we consider Witness Lee's view of Russia and God's purpose, Trump's befriending and assisting Russia and going against NATO allies is not doing God's purpose and helping the gospel.

If you read the book of Revelation it seems the leading power is Europe, not the US. That Russia and China are major players, and that the US is over all by itself in the corner, a place for people to flee to. That view didn't make sense when Reagan was President, or Bush, or Clinton, or even Obama. But Trump has brought us halfway to that vision in just two years! Now I can see us being cut off from the rest of the world. Likewise, if the midterm elections show a dramatic swing of the pendulum in the other direction I could see us also becoming a place where people can flee to.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you read the book of Revelation it seems the leading power is Europe, not the US. That Russia and China are major players, and that the US is over all by itself in the corner, a place for people to flee to. That view didn't make sense when Reagan was President, or Bush, or Clinton, or even Obama. But Trump has brought us halfway to that vision in just two years! Now I can see us being cut off from the rest of the world. Likewise, if the midterm elections show a dramatic swing of the pendulum in the other direction I could see us also becoming a place where people can flee to.

Possibly Revelation speaks of Europe and the US collectively, "the West". I think US is still more powerful in every way to China, Europe, anyone and will be for a very long time still and whether the President is good or bad doesn't matter so much. People are still going to do business with the most powerful country. If Trump was the president of a small country however then what comes out of his mouth could make or break their whole economy, but not with the US I don't think. There is still no other country better than the US, it's always number 1 in my view.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I just think he's out of his depth and making it up as he goes along. His gut instinct as a businessman. Still even in business I wouldn't want to be saying what he says. "okay then, it's a deal, I'll draw up the contract". "Sorry! I meant to say it's not a deal, and was talking about something else when I referred to the contract". He was born rich (not self-made), thinks he's good at something which he isn't (he's not such a great businessman), and tries to be the President. When he's standing next to real leaders (the Queen, Putin, etc), it becomes obvious to everyone. Whether it's walking in front of the Queen so she has to run around him, or saying stupid things, it's just not professional. Worse he's forced himself into a corner now that he's offended everyone who were considered allies, the EU and NATO won't want to touch him.

Unlike Trump, Witness Lee understood the importance of containing Russia and Russia's nature in the world. If we consider Witness Lee's view of Russia and God's purpose, Trump's befriending and assisting Russia and going against NATO allies is not doing God's purpose and helping the gospel.

Lee was hardly unique in that respect. I heard Cold-War evangelists like Herbert W. Armstrong and Jack Van Impe preaching about Russia as Gog and Magog and it's role in Armageddon on TV on Sunday mornings when I was a kid before I became aware of Lee, so when I heard him preaching it, it was nothing special to me. On Saturday mornings, I watched cartoons.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Possibly Revelation speaks of Europe and the US collectively, "the West". I think US is still more powerful in every way to China, Europe, anyone and will be for a very long time still and whether the President is good or bad doesn't matter so much. People are still going to do business with the most powerful country. If Trump was the president of a small country however then what comes out of his mouth could make or break their whole economy, but not with the US I don't think. There is still no other country better than the US, it's always number 1 in my view.

I think it is very difficult, if not impossible to see the Antichrist as anything but a European leader.

The Great Eagle (as opposed to other Eagles like Mexico) would certainly be the US, it is also described as "the wilderness" and a place to flee to.

Gog -- Russia, MaGog -- China.

Armageddon is clearly a place in the Middle East. The Four corners of the Earth are tied up at the Tigris/Euphrates -- sounds like the current situation in Iraq.

[zeek]

Michael Kimmage https://history.catholic.edu/faculty...ael/index.html
What Trump just did in Helsinki is pull the rug out from under his feet in terms of dealing with Russia. I think he destroyed his credibility as a president on this issue. He merged the cheapest of campaign rhetoric with issues that relate to America’s standing in the world, that relate to America’s security, in ways that are grossly irresponsible.

I think in retrospect what one can say about this meeting is that it was way too soon given the level of preparation, and probably it was just a bad idea to begin with.

If the president genuinely cared about improving the US Russian relationship, it is he who just killed the chance of that, by appearing so untrustworthy and so ill-prepared. You can’t blame Putin in this case, you can’t blame the media. It [is] the president that has put himself in the place he is in.

https://www.vox.com/conversations/20...-syria-ukraine

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think it is very difficult, if not impossible to see the Antichrist as anything but a European leader.

The Great Eagle (as opposed to other Eagles like Mexico) would certainly be the US, it is also described as "the wilderness" and a place to flee to.

Gog -- Russia, MaGog -- China.

Armageddon is clearly a place in the Middle East. The Four corners of the Earth are tied up at the Tigris/Euphrates -- sounds like the current situation in Iraq.

All Revelation chapter 12 actually says about this is

Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

That people still look to the fulfillment of Revelation's in the 21st century is a testimony to the book's power to symbolize people's existential angst. To make that symbolic story into something about the USA 2000 years later seems like desperately wishful thinking. It is like an eagle flying in the face of the probability that John was writing about people and events of the world he knew and he knew nothing about the world 20 centuries later.

[Ohio]

Helsinki Is One of Trump’s Finest Moments

Keep in mind that what Trump was supposed to do Monday was to drink the Kool-Aid, was to believe our Intelligence Community (IC) got it 100 percent right about Russian meddling, was to throw diplomacy out the window and publicly embarrass Putin.

Thankfully, Trump refused to do that, and now the spoiled children, just as they did after Charlottesville, are again lying and claiming Trump “sided with Putin,” when the only thing Trump’s guilty of is remaining diplomatic, which is the whole point of a summit expressly arranged to facilitate peace.

What is so incredible is that, in this the year 2018, after the intelligence catastrophe that was Iraq, after learning the IC was actively meddling in the 2016 election using Kremlin-fed propaganda in the form of a dossier, only a crazy man would swallow whole what the IC is telling him, and only a dangerously weak man would risk damaging relations with Russia further in order to symbolically appease the IC.

The truth is this, and we all know it, especially those currently in the middle of their tantrum:

1. Personally, I am not convinced Russia meddled in our election, and I find Dirty Cop Mueller’s kangaroo indictments of people he will never have to prove a case against (because he knows they will not be extradited) to be nothing less than the actions of a flailing prosecutor who’s got less than nothing. Mueller indicting non-American citizens working on behalf of a hostile government is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. It would be like Reagan’s Justice Department indicting the KGB.

2. Because the documents that convinced Republican investigators Russia meddled in our election came from our IC, I find those conclusions just as suspect.

3. Even if the Russians did meddle in our elections, it appears to have been nothing more than drop-in-the-bucket Facebook and Twitter expenditures that ended up being less than meaningless. Moreover, most of this Russian monkey business occurred after the election and was targeted against Trump.

The worst case scenario is Russia figured out John Podesta’s email password was “password” and disseminated his emails. But where is the proof?

Regardless, is it not interesting that Dirty Cop Mueller’s kangaroo indictment left out one pertinent fact, the fact that — if you believe any of this — the Russians also tried to hack the GOP, and failed?

We meddle in other country’s elections, other countries meddle in our elections, and suddenly I am supposed to give a damn? Russia has been meddling in American politics going back decades and all of a sudden this fact of life demands Trump stage an international incident? Are these people out of their minds? We all know what is going on here — the only reason we are required to suddenly care about decades-old espionage-as-usual is because the media and the political establishment cannot accept losing the 2016 presidential election.

4. Once burnt, twice shy.

To my eternal shame, I swallowed the case for WMDs in Iraq hook, line, and sinker. Why, back in ’02, the very idea the patriots within the IC could get such an important matter wrong — to even suggest such a thing, was unpatriotic.

And now I am watching this dangerous horse**** play out all over again, where it is un-American to question the IC, where we have “super patriots” running around defining patriotism as drinking the FBI/CIA/IC Kool-Aid, where the jingoistic media is trying to out-jingoize each other by screaming about “acts of war,” where the pursuit of peace is treason, and those who pursue peace are traitors…
Where, for some obscene reason, we are supposed to always believe the IC, which means we must condemn the peacemakers like Trump who dare remain skeptical.

Most of all, we are required to forget that this is the same IC that missed the fall of the Soviet Union, missed 9/11; that led us into a harrowing and pointless war in Iraq; that used a dossier filled with Kremlin-fed propaganda to frame Trump; that lionizes proven liars like James Clapper, Dirty Cop James Comey, and John Brennan; that hands ego-maniacal monsters like Peter Strzok extraordinary power (and still has him on the payroll); that uses a kangaroo indictment that says the Russians hacked the DNC, even though no one in law enforcement has inspected the DNC server.

Sorry, but when the American IC is not incompetent, it is corrupt in ways that would not be believed in fiction.

6. Trump’s actions speak for themselves. His actions, not his words when engaged in direct diplomacy, which of course require a certain amount of finesse and BS, are what matter.

It is simply a fact that Trump has been tougher on Russia than both his predecessors combined. He has increased Russian sanctions, directed many of those sanctions directly at Putin’s inner circle, has drawn a real red line in Putin’s client state of Syria, twice bombed Putin’s client Assad, is openly admonishing Germany for being Putin’s energy client, overturned Obama’s appeasement of Putin by giving Poland anti-missile defense, ordered Russian diplomatic properties closed in D.C., Manhattan, Seattle, and San Francisco; Trump has armed Ukraine and is aggressively pushing our NATO partners to invest even more into an organization built specifically to defy Russia.

Which means that what Putin saw in Helsinki is a firm American president who cannot be bullied, berated, blackmailed, or cajoled, even with the threat of a week-long tantrum performed by spoiled babies back in his own country. This is a good thing.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Helsinki Is One of Trump’s Finest Moments

That editorialist must have gone covfefe when his man Trump returned to the USA and walked back his "finest moment" at Helsinki by correcting his alleged misstatement and stating unequivocally what he wouldn't say in Helsinki, that he accepts the findings of U.S. intel agencies.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

That editorialist must have gone covfefe when his man Trump returned to the USA and walked back his "finest moment" at Helsinki by correcting his alleged misstatement and stating unequivocally what he wouldn't say in Helsinki, that he accepts the findings of U.S. intel agencies.

Read the article. Examine the facts. Have another cup of Covfefe.

Compare Trump's first visit with a Russian with that of Kennedy, Bush, Obama.

Trump was set up. The vultures swooped in. But it won't happen again.

Here's just one fact that blows this whole collusion / treason / fake news reporting out of the water: When Ukraine asked for help from Obama, after Russia invaded them and annexed Crimea, Obama gave them blankets. Trump, however, gave them Javelin anti-tank shoulder-launched missiles. Russia then stopped their aggression.

Compare this to what Reagan did when Russia invaded Afghanistan during the Carter administration -- he gave them Stinger anti-aircraft shoulder-launched missiles. Russia was then defeated by the Afghans.

You should start reading history instead of listening to the news. I can't find anything in the mainstream news these days that is fact-based accurate reporting. Every single news report is skewed to the point of deception. I only wish you could see thru it. Wide is the way that leads to destruction.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Read the article. Examine the facts. Have another cup of Covfefe.

Compare Trump's first visit with a Russian with that of Kennedy, Bush, Obama.

Trump was set up. The vultures swooped in. But it won't happen again.

Here's just one fact that blows this whole collusion / treason / fake news reporting out of the water: When Ukraine asked for help from Obama, after Russia invaded them and annexed Crimea, Obama gave them blankets. Trump, however, gave them Javelin anti-tank shoulder-launched missiles. Russia then stopped their aggression.

Compare this to what Reagan did when Russia invaded Afghanistan during the Carter administration -- he gave them Stinger anti-aircraft shoulder-launched missiles. Russia was then defeated by the Afghans.

You should start reading history instead of listening to the news. I can't find anything in the mainstream news these days that is fact-based accurate reporting. Every single news report is skewed to the point of deception. I only wish you could see thru it. Wide is the way that leads to destruction.

I read history every day. Do you? How do you find out the mainstream news is wrong? By comparing it with non mainstream news? If so, how do you know that the non-mainstream is right? Has it ever occurred to you that I wish you could see through your Illusions the same way you wish I could see through mine?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I read history every day. Do you? How do you find out the mainstream news is wrong? By comparing it with non mainstream news? If so, how do you know that the non-mainstream is right? Has it ever occurred to you that I wish you could see through your Illusions the same way you wish I could see through mine?

You can believe whatever you want, it's a free country. More than ever before we are in a cultural civil war over our moral values. The facts of history are being completely distorted in order to deceive this next generation. I post things here from time to time that you constantly reject. I can't change what you believe, but I can tell you that what we see in mainstream media everyday is not designed to inform or to educate, but to deceive and to manipulate.

If you are interested, one conservative Christian who is on the front lines of the cultural war is Dinish D'Sousa, whom Trump recently pardoned, and who has a new movie coming out soon.

[ZNPaaneah]

Why are people acting surprised about Putin coming to Washington in the Fall? Obviously he needs to consult with Trump on election strategy. The midterms are going to be crucial. I wouldn't even be surprised if, as an incredible gesture to save the US taxpayer money, Putin offers to let Trump use his translator.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why are people acting surprised about Putin coming to Washington in the Fall? Obviously he needs to consult with Trump on election strategy. The midterms are going to be crucial. I wouldn't even be surprised if, as an incredible gesture to save the US taxpayer money, Putin offers to let Trump use his translator.

Hillary transmitted classified and Top Secret documents on a private server which Intelligence has definitively determined was regularly hacked by foreign state actors, and of course, you are outraged by this.

Meanwhile, Hilary's campaign manager Podesta along with his friends have all been given immunity in order to "sing and compose" against Manafort.

Totally corrupt. But all the Kool-Aid drinkers are numb to this corruption.

[Ohio]

Russia, Russia, Russia ...

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hillary transmitted classified and Top Secret documents on a private server which Intelligence has definitively determined was regularly hacked by foreign state actors, and of course, you are outraged by this.

Meanwhile, Hilary's campaign manager Podesta along with his friends have all been given immunity in order to "sing and compose" against Manafort.

Totally corrupt. But all the Kool-Aid drinkers are numb to this corruption.

Yes, one thing we all agree on.

[zeek]

Russia says it is already prepared to implement agreements Putin and Trump reached in secret but Trump is keeping Americans in the dark about what those agreements are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veDWbq4Q5M8

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Russia says it is already prepared to implement agreements Putin and Trump reached in secret but Trump is keeping Americans in the dark about what those agreements are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veDWbq4Q5M8

Basic protocol, you always have the man in charge make the press release.

[Ohio]

Oh the hypocrisy ...

Nancy Pelosi Slams Trump for Inviting Vladimir Putin to Washington

[zeek]

Good idea of Dimbart divert your attention in order to take the heat off Trump. Whatever makes you feel better about tough guy's monumental show of weakness, go for it.

[ZNPaaneah]

I believe that Roseanne does have a point, though of course she has not helped her cause by acting crazy.

Trevor Noah on the Daily Show made a big deal that France's victory in the world cup was really a victory for Africa. This was based on the fact that about half the players on the team "didn't get their tan from the South of France". Now that is an extremely racist thing to say and it is quite insulting to the non blacks. It hints at the insult that white's are not good athletes. The French were insulted and outraged by the remark and several leaders of the country have openly rebuked Trevor Noah for these comments.

But have any advertisers pulled their support? No. Have any suggested they might? No. Has anyone even hinted that he could get fired over this racist comment? No.

There is a double standard. Racist comments against "whites" are OK.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I believe that Roseanne does have a point, though of course she has not helped her cause by acting crazy.

Trevor Noah on the Daily Show made a big deal that France's victory in the world cup was really a victory for Africa. This was based on the fact that about half the players on the team "didn't get their tan from the South of France". Now that is an extremely racist thing to say and it is quite insulting to the non blacks. It hints at the insult that white's are not good athletes. The French were insulted and outraged by the remark and several leaders of the country have openly rebuked Trevor Noah for these comments.

But have any advertisers pulled their support? No. Have any suggested they might? No. Has anyone even hinted that he could get fired over this racist comment? No.

There is a double standard. Racist comments against "whites" are OK.

Of course.

Woke ZNP?

"White guilt is Black power" -- Shelby Steele.

However, racism and reverse racism are designed to destroy America not to help African Americans.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I believe that Roseanne does have a point, though of course she has not helped her cause by acting crazy.

Trevor Noah on the Daily Show made a big deal that France's victory in the world cup was really a victory for Africa. This was based on the fact that about half the players on the team "didn't get their tan from the South of France". Now that is an extremely racist thing to say and it is quite insulting to the non blacks. It hints at the insult that white's are not good athletes. The French were insulted and outraged by the remark and several leaders of the country have openly rebuked Trevor Noah for these comments.

But have any advertisers pulled their support? No. Have any suggested they might? No. Has anyone even hinted that he could get fired over this racist comment? No.

There is a double standard. Racist comments against "whites" are OK.

This is the first I've heard of this, maybe because I don't watch TV. The different standards could be due to the fact that Barr was on network TV and Noah is on cable. They LITERALLY do have different standards. For example they can say f**k on cable TV but that word is censored on commercial broadcast networks ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

This is the first I've heard of this, maybe because I don't watch TV. The different standards could be due to the fact that Barr was on network TV and Noah is on cable. They LITERALLY do have different standards. For example they can say f**k on cable TV but that word is censored on commercial broadcast networks ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox.

Roseanne called a former Obama advisor Jarrett a "monkey" and got fired.

Comedians every night say far worse than that about Trump and his staff.

Tim Allen's sitcom "Last Man Standing" was canceled for no other reason than someone found out that he went to the Trump inauguration.

The Left has become the new Nazi's. Say or do anything contrary to the party line, and you will suffer consequences.

Listen to this short clip about FASCISM -- it will challenge everything you think you know.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Roseanne called a former Obama advisor Jarrett a "monkey" and got fired.

Comedians every night say far worse than that about Trump and his staff.

Tim Allen's sitcom was canceled for no other reason than someone found out that he went to the Trump inauguration.

The Left has become the new Nazi's. Say or do anything contrary to the party line, and you will suffer consequences.

Listen to this clip about FASCISM -- it will challenge everything you know.

You're ignoring the facts that I presented bro. You only want to look at information that supports your preexisting beliefs. You don't really want to engage in dialogue; you just want to be an evangelist for your side.

[Ohio]

Today's WATERGATE burglers disguised as Team Muller ...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You're ignoring the facts that I presented bro. You only want to look at information that supports your preexisting beliefs. You don't really want to engage in dialogue; you just want to be an evangelist for your side.

You can't dispute the facts and the reasoning -- only pass on labels and epithets.

I can name thousands of facts you are ignoring -- you just claim I am ignoring.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You can't dispute the facts and the reasoning -- only pass on labels and epithets.

A perfect description of yourself. Prop #14 You must continue to be a strong voice to win the ignorant alt views fools to the way of Truth. Carry on, bro.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Today's WATERGATE burglers disguised as Team Muller ...

But finally stuff Trump has been hiding and lying about is coming out. Like a recording of Trump and Cohen discussing paying off Playboy model Karen McDougal to keep her mouth shut about sleeping with Trump.

Next up, we'll finally see Trump's tax returns, that he's hiding, with the NY lawsuit.

Truth is bro Ohio, and I'm sorry to tell you this, but, you've been conned.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But finally stuff Trump has been hiding and lying about is coming out. Like a recording of Trump and Cohen discussing paying off Playboy model Karen McDougal to keep her mouth shut about sleeping with Trump.

Next up, we'll finally see Trump's tax returns, that he's hiding, with the NY lawsuit.

Truth is bro Ohio, and I'm sorry to tell you this, but, you've been conned.

Conned?

Because I thought the guy was a celibate priest?

Because I thought the guy never paid to get what he wanted?

Because I thought the guy didn't file a tax return?

Just what are you sorry about? Hurting my feelings?

That I might find out that Trump is a sinner? A liar? A bully? A playboy? An adulterer?

Truth be told, you still have no idea why Hilary lost. Or Trump won. Or anything else that is reported in the news.

And which party do you think are the real Fascists?

Would you even know what truth looked like if it landed in your lap?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

This is the first I've heard of this, maybe because I don't watch TV.

It was on the morning news because the French people were upset and the French leader wrote a letter to the Daily Show.

Originally Posted by zeek

The different standards could be due to the fact that Barr was on network TV and Noah is on cable. They LITERALLY do have different standards. For example they can say f**k on cable TV but that word is censored on commercial broadcast networks ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox.

No, that is without any doubt not what it is due to.

Paula Deen was fired from the Food Network

Phil Robertson was fired from Duck Dynasty, but fan revolt got him reinstated.

Anthony Cumia was fired from Opie and Andy, a Sirius radio show.

Don Yelton was fired for racist remarks he made on the Daily show.

All four of these were on cable TV shows, including the Daily Show.

Compare what Jimmy the Greek said which got him fired, essentially identical to what Trevor Noah said.

The only common factor for those who were fired and those who aren't is that if someone is white and says something racist they are fired, if they are black they aren't. You can even find articles justifying this where the claim is made that Blacks can be biased but not racist.

The Facts are this:

1. Trevor Noah has made a blatantly racist remark during his show. It offended those in France to the extent that the French leader even wrote a letter to the Daily show complaining about the racist tenor of the joke.

2. Noah's comment is virtually identical to the remark made by Jimmy the Greek which got him fired.

3. There are numerous examples of people getting fired from Cable TV for making racists remarks.

4. No sponsor has even hinted that they are pulling their support for the Daily Show.

5. No one is even suggesting that Trevor Noah be fired.

Why?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It was on the morning news because the French people were upset and the French leader wrote a letter to the Daily Show.



No, that is without any doubt not what it is due to.

Paula Deen was fired from the Food Network

Phil Robertson was fired from Duck Dynasty, but fan revolt got him reinstated.

Anthony Cumia was fired from Opie and Andy, a Sirius radio show.

Don Yelton was fired for racist remarks he made on the Daily show.

All four of these were on cable TV shows, including the Daily Show.

Compare what Jimmy the Greek said which got him fired, essentially identical to what Trevor Noah said.

The only common factor for those who were fired and those who aren't is that if someone is white and says something racist they are fired, if they are black they aren't. You can even find articles justifying this where the claim is made that Blacks can be biased but not racist.

The Facts are this:

1. Trevor Noah has made a blatantly racist remark during his show. It offended those in France to the extent that the French leader even wrote a letter to the Daily show complaining about the racist tenor of the joke.

2. Noah's comment is virtually identical to the remark made by Jimmy the Greek which got him fired.

3. There are numerous examples of people getting fired from Cable TV for making racists remarks.

4. No sponsor has even hinted that they are pulling their support for the Daily Show.

5. No one is even suggesting that Trevor Noah be fired.

Why?

It was a French ambassador to the US not "the French Leader" who wrote the letter to Trevor Noah.

Here is Roseanne Barr defending herself to give you a little taste of why she was fired. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl0hLA4B_HE

Here's Trevor Noah defending himself: https://slate.com/culture/2018/07/tr...nts-video.html

Do you discern a difference? Do see why someone might not want to work with Ms. Barr? Even if you don't agree with Noah, at least he keeps his sh*t together.

Any similarity between what Noah said and what Jimmy the Greek said exists solely in your mind.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

It was a French ambassador to the US not "the French Leader" who wrote the letter to Trevor Noah.

Here is Roseanne Barr defending herself to give you a little taste of why she was fired. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl0hLA4B_HE

Here's Trevor Noah defending himself: https://slate.com/culture/2018/07/tr...nts-video.html

Do you discern a difference? Do see why someone might not want to work with Ms. Barr? Even if you don't agree with Noah, at least he keeps his sh*t together.

Any similarity between what Noah said and what Jimmy the Greek said exists solely in your mind.

So we can now see that this has nothing to do with Network TV vs Cable, glad we could get that out of the way.

Jimmy the Greek said said "many blacks were superior athletes because of breeding from the time of slavery and that the only area in sports left for whites was coaching."

Trevor Noah said “Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, I get it, they have to say it’s the French team but look at those guys, you don’t get that tan by hanging out in the south of France my friend. Basically if you don’t understand France is Africa’s back up team”.

This is based on the fact that 5 out of 11 players are black. However, 21 out of 23 were born in France and all 23 are French citizens.

As Araud writes, “Unlike the United States of America, France does not refer to their citizens based on their race, religion or origin. To us, there is no hyphenated identity, roots are an individual reality. By calling them an African team, it seems you are denying their Frenchness. This, even in jest, legitimizes the ideology which claims whiteness as the only definition of being French.” Hence my conclusion as well as many others that this was a racist comment by Noah.

So then, perhaps this is in my mind.

Certainly Trevor Noah is not accusing France of cheating, that would be a major scandal and inconceivable that they could get away with having ringers play for them.

So then, what does he mean “Africa won the world cup”. In my understanding he is saying that France won because of the black players, perhaps I misunderstood, you can clarify this for me. What did he mean that France is “Africa’s back up team”?

Perhaps he is not saying that “many blacks are superior athletes” and that this is why France won (which is what Jimmy the Greek was saying). So since you apparently understand his “joke” differently why not explain it to us.

Also, does your silence on the other four facts indicate that you agree that they are the facts?

Also, is your response now that Roseanne was fired because they didn't want to work with her, but that it is OK to be totally racist and insulting as long as you "can keep your sh*t together"?

Really? His response Noah reads letter:
Ambassador "nothing could be less true"
Noah "I could have said Scandinavia won, that would be less true"

He doubled down on his racist comments.

Ambassador "the rich and varied background is a reflection of France's diversity"
Noah "I don't want to be an asshole but I think it is a reflection of France's colonialism".

Clearly, Noah is tying his comment into slavery.

Noah refers to "Nazi's" in France who attack the French players of African heritage and tell them "to go back to Africa, you aren't french, you are African". This is what the Ambassador was repudiating and to him, to me and to many others (obviously not Zeek, we are still waiting for his insight) what Noah said was equivalent to what the Nazi's were saying. Both were saying that they weren't french they were Africans.

Then Noah pulls a very deceitful little trick. "In order to be French you have to erase everything that is African?" He was the one that erased their status as French. He was the one that said, based on five players, that a team of 23 French men did not represent France's victory but Africa's. How is any of this a celebration that they could become French?

He says "I don't take their frenchness away". Really, sure fooled me and everyone else in France. Not only did he take the "frenchness" away from the five, but from all 23.

So yes, I see a difference. Trevor Noah is more polished at lying and being deceitful. Personally I think his critique of Roseanne is very appropriate here. He makes it very clear in his little monologue that saying something that is racist means you are racist.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Here is a sample of the LCM teaching on politics and the church:




According to Nee the Bible teaches that it is wrong for a Christian to hold political office. So, professing Christians should not run for or hold public office or work for the government. The business of government should be left to unbelievers.

I worked for the State of Florida for 37 years. It never occurred to me that I was acting unchristian. How about that?

I think we need to return to Post #1. Does holding public office require you to act in a way that is unchristian?

My issue is hypocrisy. Slavery was hypocritical. It involved lying, deceit, distorting the word of God, etc. Civil rights will never result in a world that is just if those fighting for civil rights are hypocrites. You will not get justice if the foundation is lies, deceits, and hypocrisy.

I don't excuse the lies and deceits of Clinton, on the other hand I don't think that Clinton's lies justify or exonerate Trump's lies.

It is quite obvious that many people feel you have to compensate for past injustice with present injustice. I believe that is a failed strategy. If people rebelled against the past injustice then they will certainly rebel against institutional injustice that is supposed to "compensate" for that.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think we need to return to Post #1. Does holding public office require you to act in a way that is unchristian?

My issue is hypocrisy. Slavery was hypocritical. It involved lying, deceit, distorting the word of God, etc. Civil rights will never result in a world that is just if those fighting for civil rights are hypocrites. You will not get justice if the foundation is lies, deceits, and hypocrisy.

I don't excuse the lies and deceits of Clinton, on the other hand I don't think that Clinton's lies justify or exonerate Trump's lies.

It is quite obvious that many people feel you have to compensate for past injustice with present injustice. I believe that is a failed strategy. If people rebelled against the past injustice then they will certainly rebel against institutional injustice that is supposed to "compensate" for that.

Where and how do your comments about Clinton (Bill? Hilary?) and Trump fit into racial reparations and perceived past injustices?

These comments are flawed on so many levels.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Where and how do your comments about Clinton (Bill? Hilary?) and Trump fit into racial reparations and perceived past injustices?

These comments are flawed on so many levels.

Simple, a kingdom is built on a foundation of righteousness.

The civil rights movement condemned past unrighteousness, but if they do that by perpetuating unrighteousness it will fail.

Same is true of Trump. His campaign was based on condemning past unrighteousness. But if he perpetuates the unrighteousness he will fail.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So we can now see that this has nothing to do with Network TV vs Cable, glad we could get that out of the way.

No, that's dismissive and supercilious as if that is an argument, which it isn't.

Jimmy the Greek said "many blacks were superior athletes because of breeding from the time of slavery and that the only area in sports left for whites was coaching."

Trevor Noah said “Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, Africa won the world cup, I get it, they have to say it’s the French team but look at those guys, you don’t get that tan by hanging out in the south of France my friend. Basically if you don’t understand France is Africa’s back up team”.

This is based on the fact that 5 out of 11 players are black. However, 21 out of 23 were born in France and all 23 are French citizens.

As Araud writes, “Unlike the United States of America, France does not refer to their citizens based on their race, religion or origin. To us, there is no hyphenated identity, roots are an individual reality. By calling them an African team, it seems you are denying their Frenchness. This, even in jest, legitimizes the ideology which claims whiteness as the only definition of being French.” Hence my conclusion as well as many others that this was a racist comment by Noah.
So then, perhaps this is in my mind.

Right. Noah didn't say anything about the African-French players being bred for slavery which was Jimmy the Greek's hypothesis.

Certainly Trevor Noah is not accusing France of cheating, that would be a major scandal and inconceivable that they could get away with having ringers play for them. So then, what does he mean “Africa won the world cup”. In my understanding he is saying that France won because of the black players, perhaps I misunderstood, you can clarify this for me. What did he mean that France is “Africa’s back up team”? Perhaps he is not saying that “many blacks are superior athletes” and that this is why France won (which is what Jimmy the Greek was saying). So since you apparently understand his “joke” differently why not explain it to us.

Noah's original point was that France seemed to be denying the player's African origins. In the process of making the joke he went to the other extreme and denied their Frenchness which is what offended Araud.

Also, does your silence on the other four facts indicate that you agree that they are the facts?

Well let's see;

1. Trevor Noah has made a blatantly racist remark during his show. It offended those in France to the extent that the French leader even wrote a letter to the Daily show complaining about the racist tenor of the joke.

Mostly true.

2. Noah's comment is virtually identical to the remark made by Jimmy the Greek which got him fired.

Mostly false.

3. There are numerous examples of people getting fired from Cable TV for making racists remarks.

I haven't followed this so I'm not sure.

4. No sponsor has even hinted that they are pulling their support for the Daily Show.

True as far as I know.

5. No one is even suggesting that Trevor Noah be fired.

True as far as I know.

Also, is your response now that Roseanne was fired because they didn't want to work with her, but that it is OK to be totally racist and insulting as long as you "can keep your sh*t together"?

No.

Really? His response Noah reads letter:
Ambassador "nothing could be less true"
Noah "I could have said Scandinavia won, that would be less true"
He doubled down on his racist comments.
Ambassador "the rich and varied background is a reflection of France's diversity"
Noah "I don't want to be an asshole but I think it is a reflection of France's colonialism".
Clearly, Noah is tying his comment into slavery.

No, he's clearly tying it to colonialism which is a historical fact.

Noah refers to "Nazi's" in France who attack the French players of African heritage and tell them "to go back to Africa, you aren't french, you are African". This is what the Ambassador was repudiating and to him, to me and to many others (obviously not Zeek, we are still waiting for his insight) what Noah said was equivalent to what the Nazi's were saying. Both were saying that they weren't french they were Africans.

Right. But, the Nazi's say it with hatred of the other whereas Noah said it with pride of identity.

Then Noah pulls a very deceitful little trick. "In order to be French you have to erase everything that is African?" He was the one that erased their status as French. He was the one that said, based on five players, that a team of 23 French men did not represent France's victory but Africa's. How is any of this a celebration that they could become French?

I don't see it as a trick. As the Frenchman commented "Unlike in the United States of America, France does not refer to its citizens based on their race, religion or origin. To us there is no hyphenated identity." Noah to make his joke made the parallel error of erasing their Frenchness.

He says "I don't take their frenchness away". Really, sure fooled me and everyone else in France. Not only did he take the "frenchness" away from the five, but from all 23.

I agree on that point.

So yes, I see a difference. Trevor Noah is more polished at lying and being deceitful. Personally I think his critique of Roseanne is very appropriate here. He makes it very clear in his little monologue that saying something that is racist means you are racist.

Rob Dozier of Slate: So despite the criticism, Noah will still be celebrating the fact that “Africans” won the World Cup. “So, I will continue to praise them for being African because I believe that they are of Africa, their parents are from Africa and they can be French at the same time,” he said. “And if French people are saying they can’t be both, then I think that they have a problem and not me.”

So, Noah makes light of the fact that he had made a parallel error by not acknowledging the players' Frenchness. I don't find his joke as offensive like Barr's but the fact that he didn't balance it by acknowledging their Frenchness when he made the remark and, as you said, "doubled down on it" after the letter is problematic to me.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Simple, a kingdom is built on a foundation of righteousness.

The civil rights movement condemned past unrighteousness, but if they do that by perpetuating unrighteousness it will fail.

Same is true of Trump. His campaign was based on condemning past unrighteousness. But if he perpetuates the unrighteousness he will fail.

Ohhhh...kay.

And what is the unrighteousness that Trump is perpetuating?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Right. Noah didn't say anything about the African-French players being bred for slavery which was Jimmy the Greek's hypothesis.

No, Jimmy the Greek's hypothesis was that slaves were bred to be bigger, stronger, faster. As a result descendants of slaves were better athletes.

Noah's hypothesis was that five members of the French soccer team with African ancestry was the reason the team won, so much so that it wasn't a French victory but African victory.

Originally Posted by zeek

Noah's original point was that France seemed to be denying the player's African origins. In the process of making the joke he went to the other extreme and denied their Frenchness which is what offended Araud.

Ridiculous. How exactly did France deny their heritage?

Originally Posted by zeek

Right. But, the Nazi's say it with hatred of the other whereas Noah said it with pride of identity.

Yes, well the Nazi's also have a form of "pride of identity". They are mirror images of one another.

Originally Posted by zeek

I don't see it as a trick. As the Frenchman commented "Unlike in the United States of America, France does not refer to its citizens based on their race, religion or origin. To us there is no hyphenated identity." Noah to make his joke made the parallel error of erasing their Frenchness.

The trick is that the French never erased anyone's heritage. No one has denied where they came from, who their parents were or any of their family history. All the French are saying is that the team was the French Team.

It was Noah, not the French, who erased the French team, saying that "Africa won the world cup". Anyone who embraced the French team as their team, including all of the players, would have been offended by that.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Ohhhh...kay.

And what is the unrighteousness that Trump is perpetuating?

Too soon to make a final judgement.

I would say that the recent trip to Helsinki smells of unrighteousness. Some have called it treasonous, others have called it despicable. I have yet to hear anyone defend his actions. But I said "if he", still too early to say specifically.

However, the recent tape released that both Trump and Guiliani have authenticated and which they both claim "proves Trump did nothing wrong" I consider very troubling.

What does the tape prove?

1. Trump had an affair with that woman.

2. Trump was in the habit of having his fixer pay off tabloid papers to buy and bury the stories from these affairs.

3. Trump lied when he said he knew nothing of Cohen making the payment.

By any measure I feel it is absurd to say that proving these three things is equated with "proving Trump did nothing wrong". Once again, this reminds me of the complaints about Clinton not having a moral compass.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

By any measure I feel it is absurd to say that proving these three things is equated with "proving Trump did nothing wrong". Once again, this reminds me of the complaints about Clinton not having a moral compass.

Let me make a distinction here between the "moral compasses" of Trump and Clinton. First, Clinton raped and molested women, and took advantage of teenage interns using his power. Trump's affairs, however, were consensual with "professional" women. The Clinton apparatus went after these women to silence them, Trump however bought their silence. Supposedly we are in the #MeToo generation, where all consensual sex between adults is warranted.

History taught us that marital fidelity was preferred but not something Americans could demand of Presidents. JFK and WJC were liberal icons yet serial philanderers, while Eisenhower, FDR, and others still had their affairs. None of them got the 24/7 treatment that Trump gets, so the media makes Trump look far worse than others. It was only after public scandal that Americans seemed to demand a "moral" president like Carter or Bush. Unfortunately neither of these was respected as a great leader. Thus the truly great presidents, both moral and brilliant leaders, are reduced to a handful like Washington, Lincoln, and Reagan.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I would say that the recent trip to Helsinki smells of unrighteousness. Some have called it treasonous, others have called it despicable.

Trump was set up. How can Trump say he can trust American Intelligence after facing the corruption of Yates, Comey, McCabe, Clapper, Muller, Rosenstein, Powers, Lynch, Strzok, Page, and the Communist Brennan? Amer Intel has exonerated Clinton and attempted a coup against him. After one meeting with Putin, he appeared to be less ingenuous than all the others he has faced. Of course, the media immediately pulled a bait'n'switch saying Coats was his DNI.

The media has claimed treason and the destruction of our democracy since Nov 8, 2016. Don't be fooled by hysteria. Follow the facts. That's what your forensics training has taught you.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump was set up. How can Trump say he can trust American Intelligence after facing the corruption of Yates, Comey, McCabe, Clapper, Muller, Rosenstein, Powers, Lynch, Strzok, Page, and the Communist Brennan? Amer Intel has exonerated Clinton and attempted a coup against him. After one meeting with Putin, he appeared to be less ingenuous than all the others he has faced. Of course, the media immediately pulled a bait'n'switch saying Coats was his DNI.

The media has claimed treason and the destruction of our democracy since Nov 8, 2016. Don't be fooled by hysteria. Follow the facts. That's what your forensics training has taught you.

I am looking at the most loyal supporters of Trump.

1. Generally a meeting of this sort would involve a tremendous amount of preparation between State departments and low level experts to hash out agreements. There was none of that.

2. Generally a meeting of this magnitude would involve 20 people on each side of the table, each with various portfolios. Again, none of that.

3. Although meetings between the President of the US and the leader of Russia would be confidential, that doesn't apply to other members of our government with Top Secret clearance. The idea that the only person who knows what took place was the interpreter is, at the very least, alarming.

4. The idea that Top officials for national security would be surprised on a TV show about Trump's announcement for another State visit with Putin, at the very least, demonstrates that he keeps everyone else out of the loop. That also is alarming to me.

5. Siding with Russia against the conclusions of our own intelligence concerning Russian meddling, is extremely alarming. To me that alone warrants taking precautions against the possibility that Trump has been compromised.

6. Trump's idiotic applause for Putin to interrogate the suspects and let us watch as long as the Russians could also interrogate US ambassadors, that is scary alarming.

7. I agree with the conclusion that this single event is the most embarrassing diplomatic fiasco in the history of US Presidents.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Simple, a kingdom is built on a foundation of righteousness.

The civil rights movement condemned past unrighteousness, but if they do that by perpetuating unrighteousness it will fail.

Same is true of Trump. His campaign was based on condemning past unrighteousness. But if he perpetuates the unrighteousness he will fail.

Once a liar, always a liar. And it doesn't matter if past presidents lied, as we know they did. Trump is our president now, and he clearly lies more than all the rest. I don't trust liars, whether left or right. That's one reason I'm an independent. Trump clearly can't be trusted, and all his words are called into question. Who in their right mind could trust him?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Once a liar, always a liar. And it doesn't matter if past presidents lied, as we know they did. Trump is our president now, and he clearly lies more than all the rest. I don't trust liars, whether left or right. That's one reason I'm an independent. Trump clearly can't be trusted, and all his words are called into question. Who in their right mind could trust him?

I think you will be embarrassed some day if you think Trump "lies more than the rest". What is fair to say is that his lies are far more transparent.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

No, Jimmy the Greek's hypothesis was that slaves were bred to be bigger, stronger, faster. As a result descendants of slaves were better athletes.

Noah's hypothesis was that five members of the French soccer team with African ancestry was the reason the team won, so much so that it wasn't a French victory but African victory.



Ridiculous. How exactly did France deny their heritage?



Yes, well the Nazi's also have a form of "pride of identity". They are mirror images of one another.



The trick is that the French never erased anyone's heritage. No one has denied where they came from, who their parents were or any of their family history. All the French are saying is that the team was the French Team.

It was Noah, not the French, who erased the French team, saying that "Africa won the world cup". Anyone who embraced the French team as their team, including all of the players, would have been offended by that.

The French Ambassador to the U.S., Gérard Araud, legitimated denial of the player's African heritage when he wrote "Unlike in the United States of America, France does not refer to its citizens based on their race, religion or origin. To us there is no hyphenated identity."

A few European players of hyphenated origin confirmed that their ethnic heritages are denied:

Benzema: ‘When I score I’m French, when I don’t I’m an Arab’

Lukaku: ‘When things were going well, I was Lukaku the Belgian striker...when they weren’t going well, I was the Belgian striker of Congolese descent’

Ozil: ‘When we win, I am German. When we lose, I am an immigrant’

[bey urdus
@_beardus ]

When Trevor Noah validated the player's African heritage without acknowledging their Frenchness he apparently felt he was justly counter-balancing the omission of the French media and therefore he was unapologetic about it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The French Ambassador to the U.S., Gérard Araud, legitimated denial of the player's African heritage when he wrote "Unlike in the United States of America, France does not refer to its citizens based on their race, religion or origin. To us there is no hyphenated identity."

A few European players of hyphenated origin confirmed that their ethnic heritages are denied:

Benzema: ‘When I score I’m French, when I don’t I’m an Arab’

Lukaku: ‘When things were going well, I was Lukaku the Belgian striker...when they weren’t going well, I was the Belgian striker of Congolese descent’

Ozil: ‘When we win, I am German. When we lose, I am an immigrant’

[bey urdus
@_beardus ]

When Trevor Noah validated the player's African heritage without acknowledging their Frenchness he apparently felt he was justly counter-balancing the omission of the French media and therefore he was unapologetic about it.

Which is my point. Counterbalancing unrighteousness with unrighteousness is a failed strategy.

The Lord said "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Their words prove that they did not treat the French the way they want the French to treat them. In fact they did the exact thing they are saying is unrighteous, hence they have condemned themselves with their own words.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Which is my point. Counterbalancing unrighteousness with unrighteousness is a failed strategy.

The Lord said "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Their words prove that they did not treat the French the way they want the French to treat them. In fact they did the exact thing they are saying is unrighteous, hence they have condemned themselves with their own words.

Who is they? I thought we were just talking about Trevor Noah.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Who is they? I thought we were just talking about Trevor Noah.

Trevor Noah is an example, Black lives matter, another example, Black Panthers another example, etc.

This also includes those who fight for LGBTQ rights, etc.

The road that leads to life is narrow and there are few that find it. Ghandi found it, Nelson Mandela found it and Martin Luther King Jr. found it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Trevor Noah is an example, Black lives matter, another example, Black Panthers another example, etc.

This also includes those who fight for LGBTQ rights, etc.

The road that leads to life is narrow and there are few that find it. Ghandi found it, Nelson Mandela found it and Martin Luther King Jr. found it.

Here's a debate on political correctness you might enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxYimeaoea0

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think you will be embarrassed some day if you think Trump "lies more than the rest". What is fair to say is that his lies are far more transparent.

Supposedly 90% of Trump's "lies" are simply when he calls out the MEDIA for their fake news.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Here's a debate on political correctness you might enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxYimeaoea0

Who's got time to listen to all that crap?

In short, the best way to stop a bad man with hate speech, is a good man with hate speech.

And the best way to stop a Christian cheerleader for Trump, is a Christian cheerleader against Trump.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Who's got time to listen to all that crap?

In short, the best way to stop a bad man with hate speech, is a good man with hate speech.

And the best way to stop a Christian cheerleader for Trump, is a Christian cheerleader against Trump.

That was for znp not you. I know you have more important things to do and better stuff to watch.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Who's got time to listen to all that crap?

In short, the best way to stop a bad man with hate speech, is a good man with hate speech.

And the best way to stop a Christian cheerleader for Trump, is a Christian cheerleader against Trump.

The only guy worth listening to is Jordan Peterson.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The only guy worth listening to is Jordan Peterson.

It might surprise you to know that I was watching Jordan Peterson's lectures on YouTube before he got into the free speech controversy and became the intellectual darling of the internet right. He has a very extensive knowledge of psychology including it's quantitative aspects as well as CG Jung and Nietzsche.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

It might surprise you to know that I was watching Jordan Peterson's lectures on YouTube before he got into the free speech controversy and became the intellectual darling of the internet right. He has a very extensive knowledge of psychology including it's quantitative aspects as well as CG Jung and Nietzsche.

I am surprised. Peterson is unique because he is a white male.

Do you also listen to Dinish D'Sousa, Shelby Steele, Thomas Sowell, or Ben Shapiro? These guys have taken on the free speech culture war head on.

[zeek]

Trey Gowdy: Whoever advised Trump on Russia should consider resigning. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ider-resigning

True, but as Trump has said ‘My primary consultant is myself’ so, he's the one who should resign.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I am surprised. Peterson is unique because he is a white male.

Do you also listen to Dinish D'Sousa, Shelby Steele, Thomas Sowell, or Ben Shapiro? These guys have taken on the free speech culture war head on.

Not really. I see in an article in National Review, Shapiro wrote: "I've experienced more pure, unadulterated anti-Semitism since coming out against Trump's candidacy than at any other time in my political career. Trump supporters have threatened me and other Jews who hold my viewpoint. They've blown up my e-mail inbox with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. They greeted the birth of my second child by calling for me, my wife, and two children to be thrown into a gas chamber." I'm surprised you're still endorsing him.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trey Gowdy: Whoever advised Trump on Russia should consider resigning. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ider-resigning

The Democrats have successfully equivocated Russian election meddling with collusion in Trump's victory. Even the posters here cannot distinguish these two matters. Hence, the orchestrated media setup QUESTION at Helsinki.

Every answer Trump could give thus is wrong. Like the old question, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

If Trump denies, then the MEDIA screams that there is overwhelming evidence of Russian interference, yet they conveniently neglect the fact that Russia has been interfering for almost a century, and NoKo, Iran, and China are worse actors. And btw, the US also has a long history of interfering in other elections, e.g. the recent Israeli presidential election.

If Trump scolds Russia publicly, then he "admits" that he colluded with Russia to win the election, even though there is no evidence of this. The media was ready to jump on every reply Trump gave.

How is it that Obama and Hilary clamored for a "reset," condemned Romney for his fear of Russia as a geo-political threat, and yet today they are pushing for war with Putin. Political strategy perhaps? Intelligence gamesmanship by the Deep State?

EVERYTHING Trump does is wrong to this Media, to the Obama leftovers, to the Rinos, and of course to the Democrats -- so why not piss them all off and invite Putin to the White House. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?"

This is the sad state of American politics today.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Democrats have successfully equivocated Russian election meddling with collusion in Trump's victory. Even the posters here cannot distinguish these two matters. Hence, the orchestrated media setup QUESTION at Helsinki.

Every answer Trump could give thus is wrong. Like the old question, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

If Trump denies, then the MEDIA screams that there is overwhelming evidence of Russian interference, yet they conveniently neglect the fact that Russia has been interfering for almost a century, and NoKo, Iran, and China are worse actors. And btw, the US also has a long history of interfering in other elections, e.g. the recent Israeli presidential election.

If Trump scolds Russia publicly, then he "admits" that he colluded with Russia to win the election, even though there is no evidence of this. The media was ready to jump on every reply Trump gave.

How is it that Obama and Hilary clamored for a "reset," condemned Romney for his fear of Russia as a geo-political threat, and yet today they are pushing for war with Putin. Political strategy perhaps? Intelligence gamesmanship by the Deep State?

EVERYTHING Trump does is wrong to this Media, to the Obama leftovers, to the Rinos, and of course to the Democrats -- so why not piss them all off and invite Putin to the White House. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?"

This is the sad state of American politics today.

So Gowdy is a Rino now? Anybody criticizes Trump and they immediately become the enemy.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The only guy worth listening to is Jordan Peterson.

Yeah, if you are a transphobe, and virulent anti-LGBTQ, that supports conversion therapy.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Not really. I see in an article in National Review, Shapiro wrote: "I've experienced more pure, unadulterated anti-Semitism since coming out against Trump's candidacy than at any other time in my political career. Trump supporters have threatened me and other Jews who hold my viewpoint. They've blown up my e-mail inbox with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. They greeted the birth of my second child by calling for me, my wife, and two children to be thrown into a gas chamber." I'm surprised you're still endorsing him.

The culture war is far bigger than Trump's presidency. Shapiro's comments about Trump early in 2016 were based on liberal policies which Trump once espoused.

Many of those, like myself, who did not initially support Trump have changed their views after witnessing his policies. Here are some comments about Shapiro on the subject of not supporting Trump:

However Shapiro stuck to his pledge to support policies not people, and if Trump proposes a conservative measure, Shapiro will support it. However Shapiro distinguishes himself from most conservatives by not backing everything Trump does; he is frequently critical of Trump’s character as well as some policies.

I respect people like Shapiro who are willing to stick their necks out and be criticized by their own side.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah, if you are a transphobe, and virulent anti-LGBTQ, that supports conversion therapy.

And want every Kindergardener in the world to thoroughly study these topics.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I am surprised. Peterson is unique because he is a white male.

Do you also listen to Dinish D'Sousa, Shelby Steele, Thomas Sowell, or Ben Shapiro? These guys have taken on the free speech culture war head on.

Screw 'em. How's that for free speech. My free speech has the right to reject free speech. Everyone has a right to free speech ... and to reap the consequences, good or bad.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Screw 'em. How's that for free speech. My free speech has the right to reject free speech. Everyone has a right to free speech ... and to reap the consequences, good or bad.

Woke. Your side is shutting down free speech.

[zeek]

Liberal Bill Maher and conservative Jordan Peterson agree about everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wLCmDtCDAM