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Old 12-29-2018, 07:14 AM   #1
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Default My time in the church

I was in the church for 14 years. I came in the church during the Kingdom conference in LA in 1972. I was saved a year prior to that. I met a brother in Torrance where I was living he invited me to the conference. At the time I thought it was great! So much life and love of Christ! With all the saints. After the conference I moved to Phoenix because a new church was starting there and my parents were living in Phoenix too but they weren't Christian. I moved in with the Beck's with another single brother. It was a awesome church life there until 1974 .then the consolidations came and everyone had to move to Anaheim or San Diego. I went to San Diego. It was a big change being uprooted like that. I never had a good feeling about it . it was wrong! The first year and a half in Phoenix was the best time I had in the 14 years I spent in the church. Then in 1976 I left the church in San Diego and after a few months went to Atlanta for 5 years in the church there then to Iowa.But as far back as 1974 I knew inwardly that the blessing of the Lord was leaving the church but you could never discuss it with anyone . I could sense the clergy laity with the leading ones.I read other christian books by saints from the past. I was always aware that a lot of things in the church were not right but like I said who could you tell or talk about it to? By 1986 I was so sick of it I left for good!! I became worldly for many years.but the Lord Jesus never left me. I'm back with Jesus and have the sweetness of His love. Our fellowship is with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ! Amen
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:56 AM   #2
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Welcome JB482! Thanks for sharing your story.

It's truly amazing to see how a church which prides itself on being "LOCAL" could endure more manipulation from headquarters than any denomination.

And once again you have confirmed that the blessings from the Head would wane with every ministry mandate.
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Old 12-29-2018, 09:21 AM   #3
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I enjoy reading all the posts. It can be bittersweet but healing too.
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:54 AM   #4
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Hey!
I think I remember you. I was in San Diego from 1975-1978. My name is Carol. I stay in touch with Bob Bird who lives in Wisconsin now. Darlene and Roger Beck moved back to Phoenix but Roger has passed away. Colleen and Joe Penner also live in Phoenix and are close to Darlene I believe. I do not keep in touch with them though nor do I know how to reach them.

I last visited San Diego in 2005. Boy had it changed. Les And Carolyn were still there. I had a nice visit. Carla And Jim Rodman were there too and Melody and Brian were there as well. I don't think you knew Brian.

A bit of my testimony is in the thread :Why did you leave the LC".
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:27 AM   #5
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... I became worldly for many years.but the Lord Jesus never left me. I'm back with Jesus and have the sweetness of His love. Our fellowship is with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ! Amen
Yes. Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. He began a 'most excellent' in us and He is going to complete it through His Precious Blood and His Holy Spirit.

Paul says "He began a good work in you". I say JESUS began A MOST EXCELLENT WORK in you."

Blessings,
Carol Garza
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:08 PM   #6
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Hey!
I think I remember you. I was in San Diego from 1975-1978. .
The thing I remember of San Diego mid-'70s is the music. The song tapes from San Diego were renowned throughout the LC. They had a wall of guitars, going "chunka-chunka-chunka", and then the voices! Tremendous! I still listen to them. Long Beach had the song-writing, but San Diego had the guitar army.
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:24 AM   #7
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Hey!
I think I remember you. I was in San Diego from 1975-1978. My name is Carol. I stay in touch with Bob Bird who lives in Wisconsin now. Darlene and Roger Beck moved back to Phoenix but Roger has passed away. Colleen and Joe Penner also live in Phoenix and are close to Darlene I believe. I do not keep in touch with them though nor do I know how to reach them.

I last visited San Diego in 2005. Boy had it changed. Les And Carolyn were still there. I had a nice visit. Carla And Jim Rodman were there too and Melody and Brian were there as well. I don't think you knew Brian.

A bit of my testimony is in the thread :Why did you leave the LC".
I remember all those saints you mentioned.there are many good memories from that time. I remember the time some of us brothers lived at Ocean Beach for the gospel.
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:32 AM   #8
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The thing I remember of San Diego mid-'70s is the music. The song tapes from San Diego were renowned throughout the LC. They had a wall of guitars, going "chunka-chunka-chunka", and then the voices! Tremendous! I still listen to them. Long Beach had the song-writing, but San Diego had the guitar army.
They did have some great guitar players in San Diego and the singing was awesome. Roger Beck was always involved with it as he cared much for it. He was a precious brother
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:53 AM   #9
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I remember all those saints you mentioned.there are many good memories from that time. I remember the time some of us brothers lived at Ocean Beach for the gospel.
I lived at that brothers house Kim Tooly and his wife had that was across the street from the Navel Training center. And we worked at NTC or MCRD. Huston Sorells is another saint I'll always remember. I can hear him now saying "Praise the Lord brother!
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:37 AM   #10
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Lyndol Butler was in San Diego. In fact I remember the first meeting he came to. He was a friend of Ken Short and Dick Ingram I think they were in the Marines together at one time. Anyway years later when I was in the church in Iowa City in Iowa. Lyndol and his wife were living in Cedar Rapids IA because of his job. They were meeting with the saints there. Lyndol is a dear brother . He was treated very bad by some brothers and lies were told about him. It was horrible. That was in 1986. I soon left the local church for good after that. It was getting so dark and evil it made me sick.
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Old 12-30-2018, 03:59 AM   #11
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A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench: He shall bring forth judgement unto truth. Isaiah 42:3
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:23 AM   #12
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Lyndol is a dear brother. He was treated very bad by some brothers and lies were told about him. It was horrible. That was in 1986. I soon left the local church for good after that. It was getting so dark and evil it made me sick.
Back in the mid-80's W. Lee and his son Philip unleashed fleshly ministry zeal throughout the Recovery via his "new way" so-called gospel burden. I saw numerous brothers who formerly "loved the ministry" get beat up by those "absolutely one with the ministry." Leading brothers were no longer evaluated based on maturity, love, fruitfulness, or wisdom in leading the saints, but on blind devotion to Lee and Son and their many destructive programs.

Somehow at the time we were led to believe (the responsibility for this resides with Titus Chu) that the source of all these problems was not Lee himself or his leadership, but with certain of his co-workers. It was truly incredible how deceptive they had become.

Iowa was a battleground state between the Ohio and Texas regions.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:13 AM   #13
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I agree with your statement,it was very tumultuous indeed.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:42 AM   #14
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I agree with your statement,it was very tumultuous indeed.
The reason for LC's existence was Christian polity being hopelessly confused and divided; we were supposedly bringing "unity" or "oneness". But that oneness was oh so fleeting - eventually we got asked if we were "one" with LSM or Titus, or if we were working with Ohio or with Texas? The LC was only "local" in order to pry the sheep from the denominations, then they set about building an extra-local organization. And it soon fractured in tumult, to no surprise.
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:02 AM   #15
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The reason for LC's existence was Christian polity being hopelessly confused and divided; we were supposedly bringing "unity" or "oneness". But that oneness was oh so fleeting - eventually we got asked if we were "one" with LSM or Titus, or if we were working with Ohio or with Texas? The LC was only "local" in order to pry the sheep from the denominations, then they set about building an extra-local organization. And it soon fractured in tumult, to no surprise.
There were times I could relate to Winston in Orwell's 1984
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:57 AM   #16
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The thing I remember of San Diego mid-'70s is the music. The song tapes from San Diego were renowned throughout the LC. They had a wall of guitars, going "chunka-chunka-chunka", and then the voices! Tremendous! I still listen to them. Long Beach had the song-writing, but San Diego had the guitar army.
WOW!! How 'bout that! I knew San Diego was known as a young people's church as most of the saints were in their early 20s. We had a lot of 'singins" and the psalms were #1 onmy lst followed by the songs in the supplement.

I did not know our guitar group was LC renowned!! chunka-chunka-chunka
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:59 AM   #17
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There were times I could relate to Winston in Orwell's 1984
A bunch of ex LCrs read 'Animal Farm" after we left..and boy could we relate!!!
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:12 AM   #18
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Lyndol Butler was in San Diego. In fact I remember the first meeting he came to. He was a friend of Ken Short and Dick Ingram I think they were in the Marines together at one time. Anyway years later when I was in the church in Iowa City in Iowa. Lyndol and his wife were living in Cedar Rapids IA because of his job. They were meeting with the saints there. Lyndol is a dear brother . He was treated very bad by some brothers and lies were told about him. It was horrible. That was in 1986. I soon left the local church for good after that. It was getting so dark and evil it made me sick.
Lyndol and Karen eventually left the LC but after a few years out, returned to the LC..lots of drama for them returning back..

A Fazio recently started a thread here but has not returned to post. I heard during the 1986 San Diego turmoil, she stood up and voiced her thoughts. But Les Cites told her to shut up and sit down. LOL... good ole feisty A Fazio! She was/is blessed with brilliant intelligence and a sharp spirit.

John Smith recently passed away and Sonia passed away last year I think. They left the LC in the 86 turmoil I believe when John Ingalls left. Willie and Sandy Samoff left the LC in the late 70s too. Max passed away recently too.

Nice to 'see' some old San Diego saints here on the forum. Btw, Kurt Kunkell made a brief stop here many years ago as did Steve Nelson.

Hope you stick around and share more of your journey!

Blessings always.
Carol
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:47 AM   #19
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There were times I could relate to Winston in Orwell's 1984
One of the worst effects of the LSM thought-suppression programme was to convince us to stop seeking. Like someone stuck in an abusive relationship, we were convinced "there's nothing out there for me", so we put up with continued abusive behaviour, convinced it was our only option. Even though we knew Big Brother was lying, we kept on keepin' on, convinced there was nothing else for us. Keep your head down and your mouth shut. Don't have an opinion. Just smile and say 'amen' to whatever non-biblical nonsense came out.

It's not true. There's a larger Christian conversation happening out there, and it's important that each one of us finds our place in it. God wants to use every "part" to make the "whole". Don't be ashamed of your portion. Mistakes and all, let 'er rip - that's what Peter did. And he didn't lord it over anyone else(1 Peter 5:3; cf Matt 20:25); therefore why shouldn't we all be encouraged to break our chains, and function? Don't let Big Brother keep you down!
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Old 12-30-2018, 12:58 PM   #20
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Lyndol and Karen eventually left the LC but after a few years out, returned to the LC..lots of drama for them returning back..

A Fazio recently started a thread here but has not returned to post. I heard during the 1986 San Diego turmoil, she stood up and voiced her thoughts. But Les Cites told her to shut up and sit down. LOL... good ole feisty A Fazio! She was/is blessed with brilliant intelligence and a sharp spirit.

John Smith recently passed away and Sonia passed away last year I think. They left the LC in the 86 turmoil I believe when John Ingalls left. Willie and Sandy Samoff left the LC in the late 70s too. Max passed away recently too.

Nice to 'see' some old San Diego saints here on the forum. Btw, Kurt Kunkell made a brief stop here many years ago as did Steve Nelson.

Hope you stick around and share more of your journey!

Blessings always.
Carol
Thanks for sharing the updates on the San Diego saints Carol,somethings I knew but you filled in a lot of blanks for me. When the saints come to mind I always feel the love of our Lord Jesus
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:15 PM   #21
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One of the worst effects of the LSM thought-suppression programme was to convince us to stop seeking. Like someone stuck in an abusive relationship, we were convinced "there's nothing out there for me", so we put up with continued abusive behaviour, convinced it was our only option. Even though we knew Big Brother was lying, we kept on keepin' on, convinced there was nothing else for us. Keep your head down and your mouth shut. Don't have an opinion. Just smile and say 'amen' to whatever non-biblical nonsense came out.

It's not true. There's a larger Christian conversation happening out there, and it's important that each one of us finds our place in it. God wants to use every "part" to make the "whole". Don't be ashamed of your portion. Mistakes and all, let 'er rip - that's what Peter did. And he didn't lord it over anyone else(1 Peter 5:3; cf Matt 20:25); therefore why shouldn't we all be encouraged to break our chains, and function? Don't let Big Brother keep you down!
I appreciate your words aron,every saint has a measure of the gift of Christ and every saint has a portion for the building of His Body
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:38 PM   #22
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Thanks for sharing the updates on the San Diego saints Carol,somethings I knew but you filled in a lot of blanks for me. When the saints come to mind I always feel the love of our Lord Jesus
Imho, for whatever it's worth..San Diego was for the most part a healthy church compared to the horror stories I have heard about other localities. Not to say we did not have our problems but they were at a minimum or kept from me.

We did have a lot of love..true love for the Lord and towards one another as much as in us was.

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in 1976 I left the church in San Diego and after a few months went to Atlanta for 5 years in the church there then to Iowa. But as far back as 1974 I knew inwardly that the blessing of the Lord was leaving the church but you could never discuss it with anyone. I could sense the clergy laity with the leading ones. I read other christian books by saints from the past. I was always aware that a lot of things in the church were not right but like I said who could you tell or talk about it to? By 1986 I was so sick of it I left for good!!
Interesting how you sensed as far back as 1974 the blessing was leaving the church. I felt His Presence leaving around 1977. John did a great job imho trying to keep us focused on The Lord Jesus and His Spirit working in us. Other 'elders' kept pointing us to Lee as God's oracle or MOTA. I remember when I refused to call Sunday 'The Lord's day'. It became mandatory. What happened to following the Spirit? Btw.. when I visited San Diego in 2005, they had a new meeting hall and on the front wall was a sign "THE CHURCH IN SAN DIEGO". I do not know why they had a sign up. Was it a requirement by the IRS? or had religion really stepped in?

When I moved back to South Texas, I went to a few LC meetings. I felt like I was on the Phil Donahue show. They had a mic and when a person stood up to 'testify', I mean prophesy, they ran around the audience handing the mic to the person. Then if the person went to long in their sharing, someone would ring a bell. 'TIME'S UP!' LOL!
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:07 PM   #23
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Imho, for whatever it's worth..San Diego was for the most part a healthy church compared to the horror stories I have heard about other localities. Not to say we did not have our problems but they were at a minimum or kept from me.
I agree with you on the church in San Diego not being as chaotic as some other churches. John smith really cared about the saints. He wasn't a cookie cutter cut out. And he was very stable and mature. What made me sense the Lords blessing was leaving in 1974 was uprooting and disrupting those new churches that were formed in the summer of 1972. And the centralization with Anaheim becoming the seat of authority. It was a sadness I felt and I know other saints felt it too. But we have all learned a great deal over the years from everything that happened. Learned things about ourselves and others,and about our Lord Jesus and his faithfulness to us in our weakness and failure. Since I've been on this site local church discussions a lot of sediment has stirred up in my soul which is good,I'm reminded of the good as well the bad,expirences,and how precious Christ and the saints are,and how blessed it is to be part of His purpose
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:28 AM   #24
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I agree with you on the church in San Diego not being as chaotic as some other churches. John smith really cared about the saints. He wasn't a cookie cutter cut out. And he was very stable and mature. What made me sense the Lords blessing was leaving in 1974 was uprooting and disrupting those new churches that were formed in the summer of 1972. And the centralization with Anaheim becoming the seat of authority. It was a sadness I felt and I know other saints felt it too. But we have all learned a great deal over the years from everything that happened.
In January of 1974, W. Lee formalized these changes into an instructional format directing the ministry of all the LC's. That list is quite telling, and was posted here a while back. At its core were the demands of who could minister and what they were allowed to minister -- all based on Lee's teachings.

The clock was thus wound for shepherd leaders like John Smith to depart.

History teaches us that W. Lee never let a crisis go to waste. With each successive chaotic "storm," further regulations were set in place for LSM to take over every LC. What started out as seeking Christians longing for "Christ and the church" was consciously transmuted into zealous Christians sold out for "Lee and his ministry."
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Old 12-31-2018, 08:22 AM   #25
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In January of 1974, W. Lee formalized these changes into an instructional format directing the ministry of all the LC's. That list is quite telling, and was posted here a while back. At its core were the demands of who could minister and what they were allowed to minister -- all based on Lee's teachings.

The clock was thus wound for shepherd leaders like John Smith to depart.

History teaches us that W. Lee never let a crisis go to waste. With each successive chaotic "storm," further regulations were set in place for LSM to take over every LC. What started out as seeking Christians longing for "Christ and the church" was consciously transmuted into zealous Christians sold out for "Lee and his ministry."
Very true Ohio,I knew from the Lord that He was grieved about the situation,by the pain I felt in my heart. It just took some time to see and understand the devastation of it all. Then the long healing process. Hopefully we are wiser now to such subtleties
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:48 AM   #26
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In January of 1974, W. Lee formalized these changes into an instructional format directing the ministry of all the LC's. That list is quite telling, and was posted here a while back. At its core were the demands of who could minister and what they were allowed to minister -- all based on Lee's teachings.

The clock was thus wound for shepherd leaders like John Smith to depart.

History teaches us that W. Lee never let a crisis go to waste. With each successive chaotic "storm," further regulations were set in place for LSM to take over every LC. What started out as seeking Christians longing for "Christ and the church" was consciously transmuted into zealous Christians sold out for "Lee and his ministry."
Did any other landmark changes occur in 1974 or just after?

When was Philip Lee hired to run the LSM office?

Didn't PL initiate charging for the trainings?

Was Max brought in and sent out to shake up the churches by stiring up the young people about that time?

What year did Max publicly confront PL about the behavior of PL?
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:26 AM   #27
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Did any other landmark changes occur in 1974 or just after?
The list released by Lee in Jan 1974 (posted here somewhere once) was lengthy and affected all the leaders and subsequently the members, for example, LC's were forced to consolidate around "ministry stations" where approved spokesmen were instructed to re-speak Lee's messages.

Steve Isitt and others have more info on this time period.
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When was Philip Lee hired to run the LSM office?
Not sure exact dates, but by 1976, when the Ball Road facility was built, he already had private party rooms, hidden from inspectors, to entertain his own pleasures.
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Didn't PL initiate charging for the trainings?
Yes, initially to pay off Daystar debts from those members who clamored fraud. Later on, this cash cow only grew in size.
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Was Max brought in and sent out to shake up the churches by stirring up the young people about that time?
Yes, it was called the "Young Galilean" movement, and young people were instructed to become "fishermen" and get their "hands dirty." Max traveled the country firing the elders and demanded that all young people be "set free" to move to the campuses. What a mess! Max later repented for the damage he cause, but Lee never did. When the whole thing hit the fan, Lee threw Max under the bus in order to maintain his own pristine reputation.
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What year did Max publicly confront PL about the behavior of PL?
I think it was Spring of '77. During the '77 Memorial Day Conference, Witness Lee shamed Sandee Rapoport publicly, for some fabricated "sisters rebellion," in retaliation for Max confronting Philip Lee in a restaurant for having an affair with an LSM staffer. Max was in Chicago at the time, so he could not protect his wife.

Everything Witness Lee did here was in violation of the scriptures. Taking over the LC's was wrong. Daystar was wrong. Violating building codes was wrong. Charging Max to shake up the LC's was wrong. Shaming Sandee R. was wrong. Smearing Max's reputation was wrong. Protecting his profligate sons was wrong.

Throughout his ministry, WL taught his closest followers (Blendeds-to-Be) to violate their conscience, the scriptures, and the law in order to protect himself, his family, and his ministry. And that's why today we see so little honesty and integrity from the members in the LC's.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:52 AM   #28
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The list released by Lee in Jan 1974 (posted here somewhere once) was lengthy and affected all the leaders and subsequently the members, for example, LC's were forced to consolidate around "ministry stations" where approved spokesmen were instructed to re-speak Lee's messages.

Steve Isitt and others have more info on this time period.
Not sure exact dates, but by 1976, when the Ball Road facility was built, he already had private party rooms, hidden from inspectors, to entertain his own pleasures.
Yes, initially to pay off Daystar debts from those members who clamored fraud. Later on, this cash cow only grew in size.
Yes, it was called the "Young Galilean" movement, and young people were instructed to become "fishermen" and get their "hands dirty." Max traveled the country firing the elders and demanded that all young people be "set free" to move to the campuses. What a mess! Max later repented for the damage he cause, but Lee never did. When the whole thing hit the fan, Lee threw Max under the bus in order to maintain his own pristine reputation.
I think it was Spring of '77. During the '77 Memorial Day Conference, Witness Lee shamed Sandee Rapoport publicly, for some fabricated "sisters rebellion," in retaliation for Max confronting Philip Lee in a restaurant for having an affair with an LSM staffer. Max was in Chicago at the time, so he could not protect his wife.

Everything Witness Lee did here was in violation of the scriptures. Taking over the LC's was wrong. Daystar was wrong. Violating building codes was wrong. Charging Max to shake up the LC's was wrong. Shaming Sandee R. was wrong. Smearing Max's reputation was wrong. Protecting his profligate sons was wrong.

Throughout his ministry, WL taught his closest followers (Blendeds-to-Be) to violate their conscience, the scriptures, and the law in order to protect himself, his family, and his ministry. And that's why today we see so little honesty and integrity from the members in the LC's.
When the facility was built there were private party rooms hidden from inspectors?

WOW. Would not construction manager Ray Graver know about this, along with most of the BBs-to-be? "By their works you shall know them."
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:12 AM   #29
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When the facility was built there were private party rooms hidden from inspectors?

WOW. Would not construction manager Ray Graver know about this, along with most of the BBs-to-be? "By their works you shall know them."
Yes, that has been reported.

Read other posts here. Ray Graver and Benson Phillips knew that Philip Lee had porn and liquor, and partied in the back room.

Witness Lee and senior Blendeds were guilty of a bigger coverup than Nixon.
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Old 01-24-2019, 01:03 PM   #30
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Regarding this, that is interesting as I just read a footnote on Acts 15:39 in the RCV regarding disputes that happen among coworkers due to personal relationships.
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Old 01-24-2019, 01:25 PM   #31
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One is tempted to ask if the leadership of the LC are actually agents of the deceiver. They administering the “church” or “Lord's Recovery” according to Satanic management principles while ignoring biblical principles. What could possibly go wrong? “Come Lord Jesus!” Barf.

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Old 01-25-2019, 02:20 AM   #32
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One is tempted to ask if the leadership of the LC are actually agents of the deceiver. They administering the “church” or “Lord's Recovery” according to Satanic management principles while ignoring biblical principles..
One of the worst crimes perpetrated by Lee on the Christian public was pushing the narrative that somehow God had reached "virgin soil" in sending the gospel to a certain large Asian country that I won't name because of the safety of believers there. Supposedly, God could raise up a "normal Christian church life" there. But it was run according to what RecoveringCK calls Satanic management principles; what Jesus called "the way of the gentiles".

I appreciate Peter in the NT, not because he's brilliant or morally superior but because his failures are so thoroughly covered. Again and again Peter opens mouth and inserts foot, introducing Satanic management practices. My thought is that Peter represents all of us bumbling idiots (if I may be permitted the term). Jesus is the Obedient Son and Peter's the Doofus, the Sinner, representing you and I; he isn't worse than the eleven - no, he's the well-documented exemplar of their cluelessness.

Now, I ask you to imagine if Peter had convinced the Church that he was God's Untouchable Deputy, and every time he made an error everyone had to scramble around to "cover drunken Noah" - what kind of a "normal Christian church life" would that have been? Not very.

We used to sing, "Home, home in the church/it is here that we've ended our search." No, a thousand times no. Jesus commanded us to seek. If we don't search, then we won't find. The local church of Lee is not our home. We belong to the kingdom above. We must keep searching.

Jesus is the Exalted One, raised to the right hand of God and given glory. His is the name above every name, not only which is but which is to come; on earth, in heaven, or under the earth. No one else should presume such placement. He earned it by his sinless life and obedience unto death, "and God has furnished proof to all by raising him from the dead and giving him glory". ~Acts 17:31; 1Pet 1:21

The rest of us, while we're yet in this flesh of sin, would be wise to press on. It's a command, and a promise: "Seek, and ye shall find".
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:44 AM   #33
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Regarding this, that is interesting as I just read a footnote on Acts 15:39 in the RCV regarding disputes that happen among coworkers due to personal relationships.
The real "poison" which LSM constantly warns their members about is this -- one day discovering that Lee and Company broke all the rules they told us to keep! Hypocrites!

How many times did Lee warn us about natural relationships? Then we find out that all the "storms" or so-called "rebellions" of the 60's, 70's, and 80's were never about what he told us. They all started with corruption in the Lee Family which just sickened and repulsed the saints. Today I don't believe a single piece of church history I ever heard from Lee unless I have 2nd source corroboration.

But, instead of repenting and changing his ways, W. Lee threw those who spoke up under the bus, fabricated stories of vast conspiracies about them, and then blamed the rest of us for being so foolish. Moo cows, he said.
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:17 AM   #34
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The real "poison" which LSM constantly warns their members about is this -- one day discovering that Lee and Company broke all the rules they told us to keep! Hypocrites!

How many times did Lee warn us about natural relationships? Then we find out that all the "storms" or so-called "rebellions" of the 60's, 70's, and 80's were never about what he told us. They all started with corruption in the Lee Family which just sickened and repulsed the saints...
Another way to look at it: the natural relationships we didn't watch out for were those of Lee and his admittedly unspiritual sons. Lee warned us so thoroughly about avoiding these things, and stressed it so strongly, that we never suspected that he'd violate his own cardinal rule! So, we thought it had to be some kind of externally-derived conspiracy against God's anointed!

Same thing with the dreaded hierarchy, the teachings of the Nicolaitans etc. All those things that Lee decried, he himself practiced, just with different labeling. The way of the gentiles returns with a new flavor to cover the stench. "Brothers, these things should not be so among you". Amen.
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