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12-04-2018, 05:02 AM | #1 | |
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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Instead I would argue that being a hearer only and not a doer of the word, that is the far more common pitfall of Christians and they have missed God's purpose.
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12-04-2018, 05:38 AM | #2 | |
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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Once again the extremes of LSM have been exposed. When LSM threw Titus Chu under the bus and excommunicated the GLA, they also voiced their extreme displeasure that Midwest young people gatherings included "good works," such as visiting the sick, wrongfully condemning them as "dead works."
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12-04-2018, 05:49 AM | #3 | |
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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James takes this word and also the word to "love one another" and makes it practical. WL was very, very big on his disciples being "hearers of the word" and would gladly expound on these verses ad infinitum, but taught against being a doer of the word just like Drake said -- if you do that "you aren't building the kingdom" or "those are the works of dead religion", etc. So ask yourself, did giving money for the legal defense fund used to sue Christians, was that building the kingdom? How about giving money for Daystar? How about the money that went to fund Timothy Lee and Phillip Lee? Given the choice I would prefer that money had been used to care for widows and orphans.
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They shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God |
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12-04-2018, 06:59 AM | #4 | |
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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Building up the church. What does this really mean? Can loving widows and orphans because one loves the Lord also build the church? Or should that be condemned because the Muslims also have an orphanage? What about those verses on love, like love our neighbor as ourself? Is that not building? What is the real building then? Should not real building up result from all obedience to the Lord? Lee and LSM have long convinced their adherents that "real" building is only accomplished thru them. Saints are even persuaded to leave LC's to find "real" building at LSM. (How many times did I watch that happen?) Does anyone really believe this? The only "real" building up occurs when LSM signs your paycheck? Of course, they will vehemently deny this, but when it "looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, ... "
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Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
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12-04-2018, 06:30 AM | #5 | |
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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For instance, if I were to ask you to describe American football and you told me it consist of tens of thousands of fans screaming and yelling, eating hotdogs, popcorn, nachos, drinking beer and players trying to hurt each on the field then I would say you know something about American football but only on the surface... in reality you don’t really know the essence of football. I wouldn’t go as far as afazio appeared to go in the main forum in finding fault with James, but she had a point that many problems in the early church could be sourced back to James and those he was shepherding because he was devoid of proper explanation (and presumably an understanding) of the essence of American football. Thanks for the conversation... it really was civil and thought provoking rising above the usual canned speeches in the main forum. Drake |
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12-04-2018, 07:47 AM | #6 | |
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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However, none of that is evidence of an error in the epistle of James. Instead the book of Acts also clearly depicts the error of Paul yet no one infers from that that his epistles are also in error. Likewise, the gospels reveal Peter's error and again no one then infers this error is in his epistles. You need to do much better than pointing out that James was involved in error in Acts to discredit his epistle. Going to your Football analogy: one aspect of American football is its value for fans (big money maker), one aspect is the coaching of the game (strategy and tactics), one aspect is the players training and health, and one very critical aspect is the referees. You cannot ignore any one of these aspects. If James is identifying where to "throw the flag" then that also is part of the game.
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They shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God |
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12-04-2018, 05:43 PM | #7 | |
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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But you think otherwise... that’s fine. Therefore, since visiting orphans and widows is important and indicates a proof point of James’ practical understanding of Gods NT economy then .,. How many orphans widows have you visited in 2018 thus far? Thx Drake |
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12-04-2018, 06:27 PM | #8 | |
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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This forum is filled with testimony about leadership at LSM which contradicts faith, violates a good conscience, and obviously points to mixed motives of the heart. And Drake has the nerve to impugn James' epistle? Drake has the nerve to imply that his circle of associates fulfilled Paul's charge to Timothy? Remember the words of Jesus, "Woe to you hypocrites."
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Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
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12-05-2018, 07:12 AM | #9 | ||
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Re: Carry My Bones Up From Here
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Likewise I used the analogy of a canary in the coal mine. That canary is a critical component of the mining operation yet does not mine any coal. That is not an obscure analogy, every single building has to have fire alarm, smoke alarm and carbon monoxide alarm. The New Testament economy clearly talks about false prophets. Jesus does in His ministry. Paul does in his ministry. Peter does in his ministry and James does in his ministry. The big complaint about James in Acts is that he was a false prophet, or involved in a cult, or was negatively associated with "Those of the concision". Surely a book on this is far better than the simple "you will know them by their fruit". Quote:
When I first came into the church in Houston there was a brother there named Mike Collins, he was a mentor to me. I would often go to his house and virtually every night he would be fixing someone's car. Usually widows and poor members of the church. They couldn't pay him money so they would usually bring food and buy the part that he would replace. I would sit in the driveway and hand him tools.
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They shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God |
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12-05-2018, 08:00 AM | #10 |
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Re: ZNP Blog - Carry My Bones Up From Here
Hi ZNP,
So you are living what you believe and teach concerning orphans and widows... and for that I tip my hat to you. I also observe you restrain your tongue in the forum.. also commendable. The Lord reward your faithfulness. I look at it this way.... and what I observe by Brother Lee's kind and careful handling of JAmes' epistle I also think he thought in a similar way.... that is, if you only had the book of James then you would be missing the main and central revelation concerning God's purpose for the Church and the building of the Body of Christ. It may seem I am dismissive of James' contribution but my view is the broadest one..... also I dont consider James to have been leading an evil cult. Drake |
12-05-2018, 11:25 AM | #11 | |
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Re: ZNP Blog - Carry My Bones Up From Here
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I disagree with WL that James was keeping OT practices, teaching OT laws, or was unclear in his vision of the NT. I disagree that sending the letter to "the twelve tribes in the dispersion" indicated James was off, rather it indicated the Jews were having a tough time with the NT revelation and James had a burden for them. I do agree in an ironic way that the purpose of James is to reveal those that don't have a clear view of the NT economy, but don't agree with the understanding I had in the LC that the person was James. I believe he is expanding on the basic principle the Lord gave that "you will know them by their works". I also feel that James was specially prepared for this ministry, no one better to tell us not to be a respecter of man's person.
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They shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God |
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