Don't Give up. You Will Make It.

[Cal]

I left the LC in 1981. For a few years I floated back and forth. The last time I visited, except for once in 2006, was in 1988. I saw how things had changed, how the shine had worn off, and how doubt and dissent had crept in. I was saddened, yet self-satisfied at the same time. I'd felt I'd made the right decision to get out.

If asked why I left the LC the answer was simply that I wasn't happy there. The LC wanted me to be something I just couldn't be. There was no joy in being a wind-up doll whose destiny was to be a Witness Lee clone. I wanted a more normal, enriching life where my gifts mattered for something.

Still there was a lot of inner conflict. I wandered for years, badly wounded psychologically. I was not prepared for the fallout of leaving a cult. I did not take care of my walk with the Lord. I had few friends and fewer close relationships. Some of that was just my personality. I'm a bit of a loner. Still my social life was warped. Even my mother said once I had become a bit of an oddball. Imagine how that made me feel! I still looked a relationships as "soulish" even while I tried to enjoy them. I had been heavily indoctrinated. It was as if I was in a room from which exit was a false hope.

Around 1997 the Lord really began to draw me back to himself. I felt at that point I had nothing to lose trying "Christianity." The world let me down and I wasn't about to go back to the LC, even though part of me thought maybe I was supposed to. This "maybe I was supposed to" haunted me. It was my bothersome companion for years--the thing I knew better than anything. I began to see that the old maxim, "the best way out is through," most likely applied to me. The only one who could really help me get over my past was God himself.

In 1999 I married a strong Christian woman. We've had our ups and downs but our love and commitment has never been stronger. I've had two boys with my wife, and an older stepson, whom I adopted. My boys are joy itself and I thank God every day for them. I've been up and down financially. At one point in the tech bubble I was a millionaire. Not anymore. But I trust God more now and money less. We go through things for reasons.

Still, unnecessary suffering is not God's plan, and nothing causes you to suffer more than the guilt laid on by abusive religious groups like the LC. My mistake was trying to deal with it myself. Had I opened up to someone I probably could have dealt with things faster. But thank God for the Internet and these forums. In 2006 I stumbled on the old Bereans forum, and joined this one in 2008. They have been life lines. I don't know where I'd be without them.

In 2006, having been on the forum for a short while, reopening old basements I had slammed shut, I nearly had a nervous breakdown. "Maybe you are supposed to" reared its head and I began to be accused by Satan to a degree I never had before. Yet I thought maybe it was God dealing with me. I heard voices. Once laying awake at night I clearly heard a voice say "You are going to lose your family!" I heard swirling winds where there were none. I felt updrafts. Indoors! I was cracking up.

Desperate, I visited my old local church. Talking to an old friend who was now an elder comforted me. He was very kind. I felt the Lord's peace return. Yet I wondered if it was His way of saying that peace would be found in the LC. For a while I seriously considered going back. But I just couldn't. Going back made no sense and I didn't want to. I felt the Lord putting zero desire in my heart to do so. And there was no way I was ever going to submit to those...people...at LSM. No way.

So I dug in and began in earnest the process of really figuring out what was going on. The only way out was through. You guys have read my thoughts on the subject so I won't revisit them much now. Essentially my belief boils down to the fact that no subset of the Church can know, and so should never say, that it is the place everyone else needs to be.

The other shoe dropped later--that being that God is doing great things in many places and venues, refuting the idea that he is only doing anything substantial in the Recovery. Recently the final vestiges of any doubt were washed away. I know in the core of my being that for all its claims of being IT, the LC was only IT in the same way every manifestation of the church is IT. We are all the Church. I have personally been to meetings and retreats which have been so full of the presence and working of God that there is no way I could ever believe that the LC is the only place He is working to fulfill his purpose. The idea is just preposterous to me now.

Why did I ever believe it then? First I was taught to. Second I had experiences that seemed to support it. But the teaching was wrong. My research has shown me that. And the experiences I've had since have shown me that the experiences in the LC can be had elsewhere. When people who really love the Lord get together for Him, amazing things happen. I've seen in that in the LC and out. What was different about the LC was it was the only place we'd experienced the kind of devotion that brought the Lord's presence in that stunningly powerful way. But if you get together with people outside the LC with the same devotion, you'll experience the same thing. What's different about some non-LC churches is the broad range of devotion and lack thereof. It's got nothing to do with "the ground" or anything like that.

My theme here has always been the same--That you can leave the LC if you want to. Never believe the lie that there is some overriding principle that you have to stay there. That's nonsense. Now, I can't speak for God, so maybe he might lead someone there. But the idea that it is the place every serious Christian should be is such a whopper of a lie that it actually convinces some people that it is true. Don't believe it. There is too much evidence to the contrary.

I've said a lot of things on this forum. Some of which embarrass me now. Some weren't too bad. Either way, I was working things out in my own mind and trying to help people. I guess it was inevitable that I would become a moderator here. My main goals as such were to clean up the look of the site a bit and to push people to communicate better for an unseen audience. As moderator I did not suffer inflated egos lightly. There was a reason for that. I'd observed that nothing wrecked an internet forum quicker than a person who thought everything started and ended with him. I expected longstanding contributors to understand that there was something larger going on here that just hearing the sound of our own voices. People needed help. I know I needed it and I knew there were others out there who were going through the same things I did. In the end I was doing this for them. That said, if I've offended anyone, and you guys know who you are, I'm truly sorry. If you want to discuss it, I'd prefer a phone call. Some things just can't be worked out in writing.

I've enjoyed watching you all grow and become more confident. There are too many to name and I don't want to leave anyone out. Your gifts and experiences have been a blessing to me. Thank you for your courage to post here. To everyone, always remember that there may be someone out there who needs to hear your story. Please tell it for their sake.

But something has changed, and I feel the Lord has pretty much brought me to a place which at one time I'd never thought I'd reach. The LC doesn't threaten me anymore. It's not my boogeyman anymore. I'm passed it. I'm not saying I can't still learn or get better. I'm saying I'm not a cripple anymore.

Never in my life has my relationship with God been better. Never has the future looked so bright. The way out was through. My word to anyone suffering in that limbo of leaving an abusive group is, I understand. I've been there. I've felt the hurt. But never give up. Find fellowship. And pray, pray, pray. Don't stop praying. And laugh. He created laughter you know. Don't make yourself crazy. He loves you more than you know. He will lead you. You will make it. The claim you heard about Him is true. He is faithful.

Gary


PS. I'm not resigning or leaving. Yet. You'll just be hearing less from me. Then again, who knows.... Either way, as our old buddy SpeakersCorner used to say, carry on.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Why did I ever believe it then? First I was taught to. Second I had experiences that seemed to support it. But the teaching was wrong.

Brother Igzy,

Thanks much for your heartfelt testimony. Much of it matched my own journey, but I guess I just don't have the courage you do to voice some of the inner struggles I have wrestled with over time.

I too believed what I was taught. Much of what I was taught was from the Bible, and is healthy, but much of what I was taught was leaven, the vain teachings of men puffed up in their own understanding. Since I was with other fervent seekers, my experiences also confirmed what I was taught. And that's the irony of it all. The Lord did gather many of His seekers together. The Lord did fill us in the Spirit. The Lord did give us love for His word. The Lord did give us love for the brothers. All that is surely true.

But then we also got poisoned with Lee's own desires to build monuments to himself. He used exclusive and elitist teachings to puff us up with grandiose imaginations about "Recovery." He rewrote history to endorse His viewpoints. He also poisoned us with fears to keep us from escaping his little kingdom.

Imagine what could have been accomplished in the LC's had all LC leaders set aside their own agendas and placed the Lord's desires first and the needs of His children second? Imagine what could have been accomplished in the LC's had we not wasted all that time fighting other Christians in the body of Christ? Imagine what could have been accomplished in the LC's had we been delivered from the politics and rivalries within which always accompany exclusive mindsets?

Igzy, yours and mine and others' own personal struggles after leaving the Recovery prove that the leadership in the Recovery was never healthy. Yes, they were fervent. Yes, they were gifted. Yes, there were some precious shepherds along the way. Yes, we may have learned much. But no, the goal of LC leadership was never purely to help our walk with Christ. Everything had a motive. The goal was never pure because it included the building of an empire for Lee, or Chu, or Dong, or whoever.

They missed the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Brother Igzy,

Thanks much for your heartfelt testimony. Much of it matched my own journey, but I guess I just don't have the courage you do to voice some of the inner struggles I have wrestled with over time.

Thanks, Ohio. But it took me seven years to get the courage to tell the whole story.

Thanks for your help and encouragement. They have been priceless. And I'm sure not just for me.

[countmeworthy]

Igzy, Ohio and friends,
I have been meaning to reply..to let you know what a truthful, heartfelt and moving post you wrote.
My favorite line of your post was:

"Never in my life has my relationship with God been better."

This forum has alotted people from the LC to heal and restore their/our relationship with our Creator. It has encouraged people to read the Bible afresh..in "Newness of Life". To explore various translations, to seek fellowship with Believers who have never heard of Nee, Lee or the LC.

It has been a learning process..filled with tests, trials and tribulations for all of us.

One of my favorite scriptures of late is Jeremiah 29:11 from the NIV (my least favorite translation behind the RcV ha!)

I have plans for you to prosper, declares the LORD, plans not to harm you, but to give you a HOPE and a (bright) future.

May we all remember this and hold it dear and near to our heart.

Blessings,

Carol

[Cal]

I am following up on this thread to let everyone know that I've decided to step down as moderator of LCD. I do this with very mixed feelings because I've enjoyed the role and being a part of helping people with matters of the LC.

These boards have helped me so much and I wanted to give back by serving others. But now I just feel it's time to move on. Constantly discussing the LC tends to bring it to the forefront of your life. It gets to be a kind of never ending thing, and I feel I need to go on to other more positive things.

My main message is the same as it's been since the beginning : You can leave the LC if you want to. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either a fool or a liar.

To LCers, you are not all bad by any means. You are quite precious in fact. Please try to learn from your mistakes and stop revering men. Come and visit us some time in "Christianity." You might be surprised. I long for the day when fellowship with my old friends can be completely restored.

Best wishes to all. Send me a PM with your email address if you'd like.


"No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us." Philippians 3:13-14.

[awareness]

You are a good brother. I will miss you.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I am following up on this thread to let everyone know that I've decided to step down as moderator of LCD...

Good for you Igzy!!
Keep running the race brother ! We are almost at the finish line!! One thing that I wish the saints of this forum would do is demonstrate to the lurkers what Christ has done in each of us since leaving the LC rather than focusing on the pitfalls of Lee and the LC. The lurkers need to be lifted up and encouraged in the Love God has enveloped us with outside the LC walls.

I share the guilt and responsibility of adding my .02 worth in that respect too. My bad.

Blessings to you Igzy!

Carol G

[Cal]

Thanks, Carol!

I had one last thought.

If you revere some people you will inevitably abuse others.

I leave y'all with that as my signature.

[Cal]

Thanks, awareness! Maybe someday when I'm driving by Kentucky I'll put on my Daniel Boone hat and come looking for you. Take care, bro!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I've said a lot of things on this forum. Some of which embarrass me now. Some weren't too bad. Either way, I was working things out in my own mind and trying to help people. I guess it was inevitable that I would become a moderator here.

I've said a lot too -- the good, the bad, and the ugly. Sometimes I took a lot of heat attempting to be a "moderate," often felt like I was in the middle getting it from both sides.

Early on, Igzy, you could be quite intimidating, because you had a way of challenging each one's position. It used to bother me a lot, but that's because I never knew you were working through the same issues the rest of us were. Initially I viewed this as some vain need to win, rather than a sincere desire to bust free of old shackles.

Regardless, yours were always must reads because you spoke from the heart and my heart responded to that. I needed that in more ways than one. Knowledge alone was insufficient to free me from past indoctrinations. You then became a friend to bounce ideas off. Not being overly original myself, your ideas became springboards to launch me into new areas of discussion. That I will always appreciate.

May the Lord bless you and keep you. I will surely miss you.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Regardless, yours were always must reads because you spoke from the heart and my heart responded to that. I needed that in more ways than one. Knowledge alone was insufficient to free me from past indoctrinations. You then became a friend to bounce ideas off. Not being overly original myself, your ideas became springboards to launch me into new areas of discussion. That I will always appreciate.

May the Lord bless you and keep you. I will surely miss you.

Same to you, Ohio. You set me straight a while back on my attitude and I've appreciated that word. Hopefully we will meet in person someday.

Not saying I'll never check in (obviously I already have). But I just need to put the day-to-day worrying about this issue behind me. I leave the board in your capable and wise hands, along with OBW, aron, Terry, alwayslearning, UntoHim, CMW, and others too numerous to mention. Much love to you all.