Dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.

Dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.
"Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." Heinrich Heine

I think the same thing applies to people removing statues of former prominent citizens. If anyone thinks that these people will be satisfied by the removal of the statue of some old white racist you are sadly mistaken. It will not stop there. Next will be all the memorials in Washington DC. The namesake of the city itself, George Washington, will be decried as a racist and his image will have to be destroyed. Next will be Jefferson, then Lincoln. Does anybody remember Winston Smith in George Orwell's 1984? His job is to alter or rectify all past news articles that have been proven to be "false." The past, good bad and indifferent cannot be changed simply by trying to destroy all the persons places and things contained within it that you don't like or agree with.

Yes, they will end up burning and tarring down until there is nothing left to burn and tare down, except for the burning of human beings. Auschwitz or Dachau anyone? If anyone thinks the church, such as it is, will be sheltered and immune from this kind of insanity, they will be sadly mistaken again. Witness Lee wasn't really much different than Winton Smith in 1984. He tried to rewrite history and he failed miserably. The blended brothers are just a chip of the ole block. They're a bunch of Winston Smiths themselves.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Humperdinck

Dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.
"Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." Heinrich Heine

I think the same thing applies to people removing statues of former prominent citizens. If anyone thinks that these people will be satisfied by the removal of the statue of some old white racist you are sadly mistaken. It will not stop there. Next will be all the memorials in Washington DC. The namesake of the city itself, George Washington, will be decried as a racist and his image will have to be destroyed. Next will be Jefferson, then Lincoln. Does anybody remember Winston Smith in George Orwell's 1984? His job is to alter or rectify all past news articles that have been proven to be "false." The past, good bad and indifferent cannot be changed simply by trying to destroy all the persons places and things contained within it that you don't like or agree with.

Yes, they will end up burning and tarring down until there is nothing left to burn and tare down, except for the burning of human beings. Auschwitz or Dachau anyone? If anyone thinks the church, such as it is, will be sheltered and immune from this kind of insanity, they will be sadly mistaken again. Witness Lee wasn't really much different than Winton Smith in 1984. He tried to rewrite history and he failed miserably. The blended brothers are just a chip of the ole block. They're a bunch of Winston Smiths themselves.

Oh look, a Germanophile. By putting Confederate symbols in prominent public places, racists in powerful positions were sending a message to blacks to know their place. You want to keep it that way. Got it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Oh look, a Germanophile. By putting Confederate symbols in prominent public places, racists in powerful positions were sending a message to blacks to know their place. You want to keep it that way. Got it.

Tearing down someone else's memorial in violation of the law is not the way to "know your place". Why not put up memorials to Martin Luther King Jr, and to Medgar Evers, and other prominent men from minorities who contributed to our country?

Why not use democratic means to decide what monuments stay and go?

Since when does "political correctness" trump the constitution? How is that any different from the Nazi's illegal attacks on communists and jews?

For example, suppose a man sees someone smash his tail light with a bat, so he gets in his car and runs them down and kills them. We would all agree that killing the person was not justified and we would also all agree that it was wrong to bash in the tail light. One is a misdemeanor, the other a felony. One crime is several orders of magnitude greater, but the first crime provoked the second and in a court of law would go a long way to mitigating the punishment doled out.

Still we don't want this to happen again so we see that this man who ran the person down was mentally unstable. We also learn that the group he was associating with was spouting hate that also provoked this man. Do they have freedom of speech? Yes, but they are not demonstrating responsibility in their speech. I would like the law to state that you are liable for speech that provokes people, or could be seen as provoking people to crimes.

Oh great another limousine liberal. Winston Smith was a limousine liberal too, so you're in good company. Typical progressive preacher who only likes to preach to the choir, his own choir, cause he doesn't like it when the choir preaches back at him! So Winston, who gets to decide when and where the tarring down and burning stops? Where does it end? What about when you run out of old dead white guys? What's next? Middle aged white women? What about white left handed, one armed wall paper hangers? Oh, and don't forget about those evil "white Hispanics". (sorry George, you defended yourself against the wrong guy so you have to go) Of course when you run out of those guys you'll turn the guns on all those Uncle Tom black republicans, they will probably be next to walk the plank. Not many of them so whose next?

You see, eventually you and others like you will run out of people, places, things and books you don't like. What then? I'll tell you what then. Eventually Winston Smith has to turn on his own. Even the ones who went along with the program will find themselves in the crosshairs. Ask your buddies Bill and Hillary about this one. 8 years ago she found out she wasn't "black" enough, then this past year she found out she wasn't "progressive" enough. She couldn't even beat out an old worn out, broken down socialist like Bernie Sanders. She had to cheat the system to get the nomination. But Hillary, like all Winston Smiths, could never leave well enough alone. She just had to take one last shot at the only group that could keep her from taking her rightful place on her majesty's throne, that little basket of deplorables. Most of them were people who had voted for democrats their whole lives. But as I said, eventually Winston gets his come-uppins. So that basket of deplorables ended up sending Hillary to hell in her own basket.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Humperdinck

Oh great another limousine liberal.

That's funny. My limousine is a 2010 Toyota Camry.

So Winston, who gets to decide when and where the tarring down and burning stops?

Well, Humper, clearly it's not me who decides. Is it you? Or are we just discussing our opinions?

Where does it end?

Trump asked the same question yesterday at his press conference. He's really got you going.

What about when you run out of old dead white guys? What's next? Middle aged white women? What about white left handed, one armed wall paper hangers? Oh, and don't forget about those evil "white Hispanics". (sorry George, you defended yourself against the wrong guy so you have to go) Of course when you run out those guys you'll turn the guns on all those Uncle Tom black republicans, they will probably be next to walk the plank. Not many of them so whose next?

I don't know. It's your paranoid fantasy not mine.

You see, eventually you and others like you will run out of people, places, things and books you don't like. What then? I'll tell you what then. Eventually Winston Smith has to turn on his own. Even the ones who went along with the program will find themselves in the crosshairs. Ask your buddies Bill and Hillary about this one. 8 years ago she found out she wasn't "black" enough, then this past year she found out she wasn't "progressive" enough. She couldn't even beat out an old worn out, broken down socialist like Bernie Sanders. She had to cheat the system to get the nomination. But Hillary, like all Winston Smiths, could never leave well enough alone. She just had to take one last shot at the only group that could keep her from taking her rightful place on her majesty's throne, that little basket of deplorables. Most of them were people who had voted for democrats their whole lives. But as I said, eventually Winston gets his come-uppins. So that basket of deplorables ended up sending Hillary to hell in her own basket.

You guys never tire of Hilary bashing. Thanks Fox News!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Humperdinck

Oh great another limousine liberal. Winston Smith was a limousine liberal too, so you're in good company. Typical progressive preacher who only likes to preach to the choir, his own choir, cause he doesn't like it when the choir preaches back at him! So Winston, who gets to decide when and where the tarring down and burning stops? Where does it end? What about when you run out of old dead white guys? What's next? Middle aged white women? What about white left handed, one armed wall paper hangers? Oh, and don't forget about those evil "white Hispanics". (sorry George, you defended yourself against the wrong guy so you have to go) Of course when you run out of those guys you'll turn the guns on all those Uncle Tom black republicans, they will probably be next to walk the plank. Not many of them so whose next?

You see, eventually you and others like you will run out of people, places, things and books you don't like. What then? I'll tell you what then. Eventually Winston Smith has to turn on his own.

I think this is a point that we have been discussing since before Moses. This is why we have laws, courtrooms, a jury of our peers, and a process to decide.

It is not fair to say that Zeek supports mob rule because if the mob is "alt right" he is against them. He only supports mob rule if it is from the left.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Humperdinck

Dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.
"Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." Heinrich Heine

Bahahahahahaha ...

I'm glad we're putting a spotlight on our racist past. The white supremacists at C'Ville want us to keep the European roots of our founding. Which means keeping whites in power ... and keeping blacks (and reds) (and Jews) (and those of color) down, or out if possible.

Isn't it time that we object to our racist past? Isn't taking down Confederate memorials making that statement?

And it doesn't remove history, or revise it. Statues aren't the way we learn history. If you want to know history read books.

Then you'll learn that our founders were hypocrites. That they could write "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," and then not include blacks, and reds, as "all men."

And that's the heritage white supremacists want us to keep.

So I say, while we finally accomplished our Dec. of Independence, let's make a statement to that fact, and take down all the confederate symbols. They are symbols of hate. Obviously white supremacists love them. And are willing to kill for them.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Humperdinck

Not many of them ... so who's next?

We will have to measure your carbon footprint.

Originally Posted by Humperdinck

What about when you run out of old dead white guys? What's next?

You see, eventually you and others like you will run out of people, places, things and books you don't like. What then? I'll tell you what then. Eventually Winston Smith has to turn on his own.

Great point. I would like to see some of these forum "antifas" research liberal history in America. They might learn that they are really expediting their own demise.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You guys never tire of Hilary bashing. Thanks Fox News!

And you have grown tired of bashing Trump?

Who shall we thank for that?

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It is not fair to say that zeek supports mob rule because if the mob is "alt right" he is against them.

He only supports mob rule if it is from the left.

Is that the same zeek guy who always talks about hypocrisy?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They might learn that they are really expediting their own demise.

Now you are only wishful thinking.

"Our racist past". Speak for yourself. I've never mistreated a person of color, much left done anything remotely racist. Neither did my parents or their parents before them. My ancestors came over on something not much better than the infamous slave ships with no food, no clothes, no money, no nothing. They were persecuted and suffered prejudice for their nationality and their accent. They picked themselves up by their bootstraps and worked cleaning toilets and kitchens. Nobody gave them nothing.

My question still stands. When does it stop? Where does it stop? Who gets to decide when and where? Not that limousine liberals give a ****, there is more institutional slavery going on all over the world, including America than any current politician wants to admit. Every day young girls are brought into sex slavery. Of course we don't hear **** from these black lives matter or move on people about this because if they march, turn over police cars and loot about this kind of tragedy CNN won't cover that for one minute.

You lemo liberals need to stop bitching about a few toothless hillbilly skin heads running around with homemade torches, and worry about the tens of thousands of girls and boys of color getting sold down the river by all of our politicians. Get a job, pay your taxes and get your lazy ass into the voting booth and vote your conscience. It will all work out.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Then you'll learn that our founders were hypocrites. That they could write "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," and then not include blacks, and reds, as "all men."

And that's the heritage white supremacists want us to keep.

So I say, while we finally accomplished our Dec. of Independence, let's make a statement to that fact, and take down all the confederate symbols. They are symbols of hate. Obviously white supremacists love them. And are willing to kill for them.

Sounds like you might want to consider another country? Know any place better? You might want to check out a few places since this one is so obnoxious.

I heard all those rich liberals were moving to Canada. Did any of them keep their promise?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm glad we're putting a spotlight on our racist past.

So you got a racist past, then deal with it. Let these antifas come over to your house and bust it up.

.................................................. ..........

Didn't I tell you to watch D'Souza'a documentary?

It was not "white" men who killed the yellow man and enslaved the black man, it was liberal white Democrat politicians (in the North and the South) who are to blame. Get your history correct.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So you got a racist past, then deal with it. Let these antifas come over to your house and bust it up.

.................................................. ..........

Didn't I tell you to watch D'Souza'a documentary?

It was not "white" men who killed the yellow man and enslaved the black man, it was liberal white Democrat politicians (in the North and the South) who are to blame. Get your history correct.

“They were a bunch of Communists out there protesting against somebody’s freedom of speech,” he added. “So it doesn’t bother me that they got hurt at all.”

“I’m sorta glad that them people got hit and I’m glad that girl died,”
~ Justin Moore, the grand dragon for the Loyal White Knights of the KKK http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000009

And let the KKK come and burn your house down. It cuts both ways bro Ohio ; "on many sides ... many sides."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And let the KKK come and burn your house down. It cuts both ways bro Ohio ; "on many sides ... many sides."

I don't have a racist past, neither my ancestors.

It was you who said you had a racist past.

Aren't you from Kentucky? Did you own slaves?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I don't have a racist past, neither my ancestors.

It was you who said you had a racist past.

Aren't you from Kentucky? Did you own slaves?

LOL ... yeah I got some out back. I plan on whipping them today, just for fun.

No racist past? Quakers? Did any of your ancestors vote for Andrew Jackson? Did they support the Union? and Lincoln?

And yes, I'm in Kentucky. I've got racists in my extended family even today. My mom's side wasn't very racist, but had to live with it. My dad is a different story. He was an unapologetic racist. I remember more than once we were sitting in a restaurant waiting for our food and a black man would walk in. My dad would stand up, and shout to whoever he thought was running the place "We don't eat with no niggers," and out we'd march.

Now that I grew up resisting that, does that make me a liberal? or Antifa?

I can't be. I get no checks from George Soros?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

LOL ... yeah I got some out back. I plan on whipping them today, just for fun.

No racist past? Quakers? Did any of your ancestors vote for Andrew Jackson? Did they support the Union? and Lincoln?

And yes, I'm in Kentucky. I've got racists in my extended family even today. My mom's side wasn't very racist, but had to live with it. My dad is a different story. He was an unapologetic racist. I remember more than once we were sitting in a restaurant waiting for our food and a black man would walk in. My dad would stand up, and shout to whoever he thought was running the place "We don't eat with no niggers," and out we'd march.

Now that I grew up resisting that, does that make me a liberal? or Antifa?

I can't be. I get no checks from George Soros?

Sounds like you got a lot to feel guilty about. It's no wonder you are filled with white guilt. We are not all like you though.

My ancestors came here during the early part of the 20th century from north eastern Europe (Poland, Prussia, Austria, Finland) looking for jobs and trying to escape their own depression. They had nothing when they came here, no social programs, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. So they worked, and they were thankful. The gov't gave them nothing, yet I never heard them complain about it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm glad we're putting a spotlight on our racist past. The white supremacists at C'Ville want us to keep the European roots of our founding. Which means keeping whites in power ... and keeping blacks (and reds) (and Jews) (and those of color) down, or out if possible.

Here's some good history for you monument smashers ..

Author and filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza spoke with Breitbart News Daily SiriusXM host Alex Marlow on Wednesday regarding his new book The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left and also the Leftist-driven attacks on monuments.

In pointing out the deep-rooted ties between the American left, Nazism, and racism, D’Souza said, “Woodrow Wilson is almost single-handedly responsible for the revival of the Ku Klux Klan,” pointing out that Republicans had all but shut the Klan down prior to Wilson’s political ascendance.

He continued, “For several years there was no Ku Klux Klan and then Woodrow Wilson in the early 20th century screened a pro-KKK movie in the White House and it instigated a Klan revival. The Klan even spread to states where it wasn’t there previously, states outside the South.”

“So, if anyone is going to be going on pulling down statues,” he added, “Woodrow Wilson is a pretty good candidate to have his statue pulled down.” Wilson was a Democrat.

Hey moderator awareness, I noticed you moved this thread to Alt-Views so that the OP can't see it or respond to posts.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sounds like you got a lot to feel guilty about. It's no wonder you are filled with white guilt. We are not all like you though.

My ancestors came here during the early part of the 20th century from north eastern Europe (Poland, Prussia, Austria, Finland) looking for jobs and trying to escape their own depression. They had nothing when they came here, no social programs, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. So they worked, and they were thankful. The gov't gave them nothing, yet I never heard them complain about it.

They were living betwixt the rivers here and my daddy's daddy ran off. So they moved to Paducah. At 10 yrs old my daddy had a younger brother to take care of, so he sold newspapers on the corner in Paducah. No gov'ment taking care of them either.

Then the New Deal came in. And my father joined the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps). It was a big boon. It really helped a lot of the unemployed.

So gov'ment can help people. And I don't begrudge it. And don't understand why you do. What's wrong with having a kind gov'ment? Of course not everyone is kind hearted, and begrudge their taxes going to help the underprivileged. There's always those.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by D'Souza

Author and filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza spoke with Breitbart News Daily SiriusXM host Alex Marlow on Wednesday regarding his new book The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left and also the Leftist-driven attacks on monuments.

Right. Like we can trust D'Souza. If as he claims the Nazis are leftists, then why are they calling themselves Alt-RIGHT, and why are they considered the extreme right?

I wouldn't trust D'Souza as far as I can throw him. He's just a rightest spinmaster. Pubbies love him. Hey pubbies, make a statue of him.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

They were living betwixt the rivers here and my daddy's daddy ran off. So they moved to Paducah. At 10 yrs old my daddy had a younger brother to take care of, so he sold newspapers on the corner in Paducah. No gov'ment taking care of them either.

Then the New Deal came in. And my father joined the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps). It was a big boon. It really helped a lot of the unemployed.

So gov'ment can help people. And I don't begrudge it. And don't understand why you do. What's wrong with having a kind gov'ment? Of course not everyone is kind hearted, and begrudge their taxes going to help the underprivileged. There's always those.

When did I say I was against the CCC, straw man?

The CCC did real work. Built the Hoover Dam, Golden Gate Bridge, and lots of other projects around the country. Are you telling me that you can't tell the difference between the CCC and today's multi-generational welfare culture?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When did I say I was against the CCC, straw man?

The CCC did real work. Built the Hoover Dam, Golden Gate Bridge, and lots of other projects around the country. Are you telling me that you can't tell the difference between the CCC and today's multi-generational welfare culture?

I'm more concerned about corporate welfare ... and welfare to the rich.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Right. Like we can trust D'Souza. If as he claims the Nazis are leftists, then why are they calling themselves Alt-RIGHT, and why are they considered the extreme right?

You missed the whole point. Both the alt-right and the alt-left have Fascist/Communist roots. Why don't you just read what he had to say, instead of allowing MSM to brainwash you with their white guilt?

I have family (nieces, nephews, etc.) in their early 20's, and many believe this revisionist history, but I thought you were a little older and wiser and could see thru liberal main stream media. It seems you are vulnerable and naive to anything with a "Stream" in it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

LOL ... yeah I got some out back. I plan on whipping them today, just for fun.

No racist past? Quakers? Did any of your ancestors vote for Andrew Jackson? Did they support the Union? and Lincoln?

And yes, I'm in Kentucky. I've got racists in my extended family even today. My mom's side wasn't very racist, but had to live with it. My dad is a different story. He was an unapologetic racist. I remember more than once we were sitting in a restaurant waiting for our food and a black man would walk in. My dad would stand up, and shout to whoever he thought was running the place "We don't eat with no niggers," and out we'd march.

Now that I grew up resisting that, does that make me a liberal? or Antifa?

I can't be. I get no checks from George Soros?

Well racism was definitely in my families past. On my mother's side the family lived in Mississippi, Jackson. In fact I was living in Jackson MS, the same year that the book "the Help" was based on.

My family had a direct relationship with the KKK. They bombed my uncle's house while his wife and two kids were inside. They did that because he was very vocal at supporting the black churches and their pastors that were being targeted by racists. Later the man who bombed his house apologized to him and he forgave him.

Going further back in history we are pretty sure we are descended from a slave. Although we have had to piece the history together it seems he was a Jew from Hungary, spent some time on a Turkish slave ship and then somehow escaped. He appears to have fled to the US, went to MO under an assumed name. On my dad's side we can trace our history back to the mayflower, definitely not as interesting. But he was born in Shanghai, and was at Pearl Harbor when it was bombed (the Arizona was anchored about 100 feet from his back yard -- house is designated with historical markers).

[Evangelical]

I think what is forgotten by many and even by the President is that the "real America" does not fly confederate flags or swastikas.

I think they were right to tear down the statues reminding them of the dark past in America's history. There's no place for the confederate flag to be flying anywhere in America, just like there is no place for the swastika flag flying in Germany. Well some Americans fly swastika flags too... which is puzzling because America fought the Nazis. If it was WW2 era I'm sure the military would have just shot these swastika wearing losers.

The Nazis were the losers and so were the Confederates. What country would fly the flag of its losers? What truly American President would support people who fly the flags of losers and declare them to be "fine people"? No other country in the world does this sort of thing.

If Germany could tear down their Nazi symbols after WW2 then surely, in the year 2017, America can tear down their symbols of oppression and even introduce tough laws forbidding those symbols from being used, like Germany has.

There is a very good article here explaining the similarities:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c9b1c3abe24c

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I think what is forgotten by many and even by the President is that the "real America" does not fly confederate flags or swastikas.

I think they were right to tear down the statues reminding them of the dark past in America's history. There's no place for the confederate flag to be flying anywhere in America, just like there is no place for the swastika flag flying in Germany. Well some Americans fly swastika flags too... which is puzzling because America fought the Nazis. If it was WW2 era I'm sure the military would have just shot these swastika wearing losers.

The Nazis were the losers and so were the Confederates. What country would fly the flag of its losers? What truly American President would support people who fly the flags of losers and declare them to be "fine people"? No other country in the world does this sort of thing.

If Germany could tear down their Nazi symbols after WW2 then surely, in the year 2017, America can tear down their symbols of oppression and even introduce tough laws forbidding those symbols from being used, like Germany has.

Amen Evangelical. Finally, the voice of reason.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I think what is forgotten by many and even by the President is that the "real America" does not fly confederate flags or swastikas.

I think they were right to tear down the statues reminding them of the dark past in America's history. There's no place for the confederate flag to be flying anywhere in America, just like there is no place for the swastika flag flying in Germany. Well some Americans fly swastika flags too... which is puzzling because America fought the Nazis. If it was WW2 era I'm sure the military would have just shot these swastika wearing losers.

The Nazis were the losers and so were the Confederates. What country would fly the flag of its losers? What truly American President would support people who fly the flags of losers and declare them to be "fine people"? No other country in the world does this sort of thing.

If Germany could tear down their Nazi symbols after WW2 then surely, in the year 2017, America can tear down their symbols of oppression and even introduce tough laws forbidding those symbols from being used, like Germany has.

There is a very good article here explaining the similarities:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c9b1c3abe24c

I am confused, are you saying that Trump's support of the Confederate flag and Nazi flag can be seen in his referring vaguely that some of those in the rally were "fine people"?

Wouldn't you fall into that same group? KKK are "christians". If Trump said that some christians were "fine people" how would that be any different?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am confused, are you saying that Trump's support of the Confederate flag and Nazi flag can be seen in his referring vaguely that some of those in the rally were "fine people"?

Wouldn't you fall into that same group? KKK are "christians". If Trump said that some christians were "fine people" how would that be any different?

To me it's very simple.

What if the protesters were carrying North Korean flags instead of Confederate flags? What if Trump had said some of those among the people carrying NK flags were "fine people"?

Trump is supposed to be the President of a country called the United States of America. The confederate flag, its former generals and those who stand by its ideals do not represent the same country that Trump stands for.

Confederacy and its flag was and still symbolizes an attempt to create a new country and reject the Union (the USA).

Therefore Trump was supporting in effect, a foreign country which is opposed to the USA. Calling such people "fine people" does not sit right with me.

They should be treated like any other foreigners who wish to setup a country opposed to the USA. e.g. Citizenship revoked and sent out of the country. Those who destroyed the statue of Lee to me seem to be true Americans as they were destroying the statue of a foreign general.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am confused, are you saying that Trump's support of the Confederate flag and Nazi flag can be seen in his referring vaguely that some of those in the rally were "fine people"?

Wouldn't you fall into that same group? KKK are "christians". If Trump said that some christians were "fine people" how would that be any different?

If Trump said that some christians were "fine people," zeek and awareness would have a cardiac arrest.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

To me it's very simple.

What if the protesters were carrying North Korean flags instead of Confederate flags? What if Trump had said some of those among the people carrying NK flags were "fine people"?

Trump is supposed to be the President of a country called the United States of America. The confederate flag, its former generals and those who stand by its ideals do not represent the same country that Trump stands for. In other words they are not really Americans, just like the North Koreans are not Americans.

Confederacy and its flag was and still symbolizes an attempt to create a new country and reject the Union (the USA).

Therefore Trump was supporting in effect, a foreign country which is opposed to the USA. Calling such people "fine people" does not sit right with me.

They should be treated like any other foreigners who wish to setup a country opposed to the USA. e.g. Citizenship revoked and sent out of the country. Those who destroyed the statue of Lee to me seem to be true Americans as they were destroying the statue of a foreign general.

It would be very simple if people just stuck to the facts.

The purpose of the rally was to protest the suggestion that the city remove a statue of Robert E Lee. The rally was a constitutionally approved method for US citizens to participate in the democratic process. The rally consisted of many White Supremacists and noted KKK members, both very vile and hateful groups, which is why it is estimated they number less than 0.003% of the US population. Still, US citizens nonetheless and as a result they have the constitutional right to protest especially since they had a permit.

The antifa group did not have a permit, and because they were fighting with the group in the rally the police cancelled the rally. In this way the antifa group successfully denied the KKK and White Supremacists their constitutional right to free speech. As with other fringe groups, many of their members are mentally unstable, one of them drove a car into a group of antifa people and killed one.

What I don't understand is this: if you want to remove a statue it seems this should be done democratically, with people on both sides expressing their views prior to the vote. This is what was being done. But for some reason everyone, and I mean everyone who has a megaphone is applauding mob rule. They are applauding the antifa for shutting down the rally, they are applauding people tearing down monuments and they are applauding cities removing and boarding up monuments without any vote.

Did I miss something? If this is so important why couldn't these monuments be removed during Obama's administration? Or Clinton's 8 years? Or the Bush's terms? Or Reagan, or Nixon, or LBJ, or Kennedy, or Eisenhower, etc. What did I miss that now it has to be done in the middle of the night?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It would be very simple if people just stuck to the facts.

The purpose of the rally was to protest the suggestion that the city remove a statue of Robert E Lee. The rally was a constitutionally approved method for US citizens to participate in the democratic process. The rally consisted of many White Supremacists and noted KKK members, both very vile and hateful groups, which is why it is estimated they number less than 0.003% of the US population. Still, US citizens nonetheless and as a result they have the constitutional right to protest especially since they had a permit.

The antifa group did not have a permit, and because they were fighting with the group in the rally the police cancelled the rally. In this way the antifa group successfully denied the KKK and White Supremacists their constitutional right to free speech. As with other fringe groups, many of their members are mentally unstable, one of them drove a car into a group of antifa people and killed one.

What I don't understand is this: if you want to remove a statue it seems this should be done democratically, with people on both sides expressing their views prior to the vote. This is what was being done. But for some reason everyone, and I mean everyone who has a megaphone is applauding mob rule. They are applauding the antifa for shutting down the rally, they are applauding people tearing down monuments and they are applauding cities removing and boarding up monuments without any vote.

Did I miss something? If this is so important why couldn't these monuments be removed during Obama's administration? Or Clinton's 8 years? Or the Bush's terms? Or Reagan, or Nixon, or LBJ, or Kennedy, or Eisenhower, etc. What did I miss that now it has to be done in the middle of the night?

It should have been done long ago in my view. As far as I know the use of the confederate flag was revived in the 1950's/60's to oppose the civil rights movement and that should not have been allowed just as it would not be allowed today in Germany for any group to raise the Nazi flag.

As Germany did, one of the best ways to stop the problem is to remove the symbols and introduce laws banning the use of such symbols. The laws are probably not practical in the US but removing the symbols is practical.

There is a degree of hypocrisy in that America and the allies helped Germany to rid itself of Nazism in a relatively short period of time, but did not treat the similar problem on its own soil but left it there to fester since the end of the civil war. Of course there are still Nazis in Germany and Europe but the problem is kept in check by banning the symbols and enforcement. What Germany has done over the past 70 years America has failed to do over the past 150 years.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

To me it's very simple.

What if the protesters were carrying North Korean flags instead of Confederate flags? What if Trump had said some of those among the people carrying NK flags were "fine people"?

Trump is supposed to be the President of a country called the United States of America. The confederate flag, its former generals and those who stand by its ideals do not represent the same country that Trump stands for. In other words they are not really Americans, just like the North Koreans are not Americans.

Confederacy and its flag was and still symbolizes an attempt to create a new country and reject the Union (the USA).

Therefore Trump was supporting in effect, a foreign country which is opposed to the USA. Calling such people "fine people" does not sit right with me.

They should be treated like any other foreigners who wish to setup a country opposed to the USA. e.g. Citizenship revoked and sent out of the country. Those who destroyed the statue of Lee to me seem to be true Americans as they were destroying the statue of a foreign general.

This is all nonsense. You are not even American, and you are lecturing us on being Americans? Your extreme bias has blinded you.

I am against all KKK and neo-Nazi rhetoric. They have a history of violence, but so does the radical left. Why single out one side?

I personally don't feel that Black Lives Matter represents America. They have marches protected by Police and yet they chant "Death to cops, death to pigs." Then we have assassinations of police officers (men, women, black, white, Hispanic, Asian) by BLM activists. Recently a black police officer in NYC was gunned down in cold blood for the simple reason she wore the uniform. She was a great mom and loving person. What if Trump had said that some of these BLM protesters are good people? What you also be outraged?

Shouldn't these BLM anarchists be treated as foreigners too? Obama invited BLM and other race "hustlers" like Al Sharpton into his White House regularly. When did you call him out on that? Obama was supporting, in effect, a foreign country which is opposed to the USA. Aren't they attempting to create a new country using violence and lawlessness?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It should have been done long ago in my view. As far as I know the use of the confederate flag was revived in the 1950's/60's to oppose the civil rights movement and that should not have been allowed just as it would not be allowed today in Germany for any group to raise the Nazi flag.

As Germany did, one of the best ways to stop the problem is to remove the symbols and introduce laws banning the use of such symbols. The laws are probably not practical in the US but removing the symbols is practical.

There is a degree of hypocrisy in that America and the allies helped Germany to rid itself of Nazism in a relatively short period of time, but did not treat the similar problem on its own soil but left it there to fester since the end of the civil war. Of course there are still Nazis in Germany and Europe but the problem is kept in check by banning the symbols and enforcement. What Germany has done over the past 70 years America has failed to do over the past 150 years.

Your representation of Germany is false. Let me remind you that in Germany today there are a number of groups which deny the holocaust ever existed. They are the neo-nazi's.

America is not a democracy, it is a republic. A democracy is rule by the majority, and quickly can deteriorate into a mob rule where the majority wins the fight.

America is a republic based on rule of law. If people don't like confederate symbols, then use the law to remove them. If people don't want KKK or white supremacist marches, then use the law to prevent them.

I find it so ironic that ones like Evangelical who twists the scripture in order to condemn all denominational Christians would also promote lawlessness to rid the world of his other "deplorables."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It is not fair to say that Zeek supports mob rule because if the mob is "alt right" he is against them. He only supports mob rule if it is from the left.

That's a lie. It's pretty bad when to make your case you resort to lying about me. You should know very well I have never supported mob rule of any kind.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Oh look, a Germanophile. By putting Confederate symbols in prominent public places, racists in powerful positions were sending a message to blacks to know their place. You want to keep it that way. Got it.

Originally Posted by zeek

That's a lie. It's pretty bad when to make your case you resort to lying about me. You should know very well I have never supported mob rule of any kind.

We were discussing the antifa shutting down legal rally, eliminating discourse on whether or not to remove a statue, followed by various mobs tearing down statues and city governments in the middle of the night removing them to prevent the vandalism.

Your representation of someone standing for the rule of law, the US constitution, and the democratic process as "sending a message to blacks to know their place and keep it that way" is as insulting as it gets and clearly supported the actions of these mobs.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We were discussing the antifa shutting down legal rally, eliminating discourse on whether or not to remove a statue, followed by various mobs tearing down statues and city governments in the middle of the night removing them to prevent the vandalism.

Your representation of someone standing for the rule of law, the US constitution, and the democratic process as "sending a message to blacks to know their place and keep it that way" is as insulting as it gets and clearly supported the actions of these mobs.

I keep hearing about how "simple" the situation is, and how "reasonable" some one-sided views are, but unless we condemn violence on both sides, we only seek to perpetuate it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Your representation of someone standing for the rule of law, the US constitution, and the democratic process as "sending a message to blacks to know their place and keep it that way" is as insulting as it gets and clearly supported the actions of these mobs.

Who are you saying was "standing for the rule of law, the US constitution and the democratic process"?

I was referring to the persons who approved putting monuments to the confederate LOSERS on the grounds of county and state courthouses to send the message that white men are in charge. I said NOTHING approving mob rule and never supported mob rule. You are lying about me.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I keep hearing about how "simple" the situation is, and how "reasonable" some one-sided views are, but unless we condemn violence on both sides, we only seek to perpetuate it.

And then we have :

'This Land Is Your Land': Candles of peace replace torches of hate as protesters sing together during moving vigil in Charlottesville

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ttesville.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And then we have :

'This Land Is Your Land': Candles of peace replace torches of hate as protesters sing together during moving vigil in Charlottesville

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ttesville.html

This is how we should remember Charlottesville, and those who died, including two state troopers.

Good riddance to all the protesters. "Lock em up!"

[zeek]

America's leading CEOs are fleeing from Trump like he's the plague.

[ZNPaaneah]

Post #1

Originally Posted by Humperdinck

Dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.
"Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." Heinrich Heine

I think the same thing applies to people removing statues of former prominent citizens. If anyone thinks that these people will be satisfied by the removal of the statue of some old white racist you are sadly mistaken. It will not stop there. Next will be all the memorials in Washington DC. The namesake of the city itself, George Washington, will be decried as a racist and his image will have to be destroyed. Next will be Jefferson, then Lincoln. Does anybody remember Winston Smith in George Orwell's 1984? His job is to alter or rectify all past news articles that have been proven to be "false." The past, good bad and indifferent cannot be changed simply by trying to destroy all the persons places and things contained within it that you don't like or agree with.

Originally Posted by zeek

I was referring to the persons who approved putting monuments to the confederate LOSERS on the grounds of county and state courthouses to send the message that white men are in charge. I said NOTHING approving mob rule and never supported mob rule. You are lying about me.

What does that have to do with the thread? How was anyone supposed to know? If your comment was taken in the context of the thread you were approving of those that removed the statues and disproving of those who were legally protesting the proposal to remove them.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Post #1



What does that have to do with the thread? How was anyone supposed to know? If your comment was taken in the context of the thread you were approving of those that removed the statues and disproving of those who were legally protesting the proposal to remove them.

I support the removal of Confederate monuments by every legal means. I never said anything in support of mob rule and you lied and said I did. Now you're trying to obscure that fact.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Humperdinck

"Our racist past". Speak for yourself. I've never mistreated a person of color, much left done anything remotely racist. Neither did my parents or their parents before them. My ancestors came over on something not much better than the infamous slave ships with no food, no clothes, no money, no nothing. They were persecuted and suffered prejudice for their nationality and their accent. They picked themselves up by their bootstraps and worked cleaning toilets and kitchens. Nobody gave them nothing.

My question still stands. When does it stop? Where does it stop? Who gets to decide when and where? Not that limousine liberals give a ****, there is more institutional slavery going on all over the world, including America than any current politician wants to admit. Every day young girls are brought into sex slavery. Of course we don't hear **** from these black lives matter or move on people about this because if they march, turn over police cars and loot about this kind of tragedy CNN won't cover that for one minute.

You lemo liberals need to stop bitching about a few toothless hillbilly skin heads running around with homemade torches, and worry about the tens of thousands of girls and boys of color getting sold down the river by all of our politicians. Get a job, pay your taxes and get your lazy ass into the voting booth and vote your conscience. It will all work out.

I don't know where I fit into all that. I'm certainly not a limo liberal. I guess I'm a jalopy mugwump. Whatever that is.

But might I point out that Germany, after WWII, took down all the Nazi symbols. Why? Because it was a very embarrassing past. And guess what, their history wasn't hasn't been forgotten.

So maybe we should remove all our embarrassing monuments. I'm hearing, "where does it stop? Do we take down George Washington, for holding slaves?" But Washington was a winner, not a loser like R. E. Lee. And Lee is a symbol of those that fought for slavery. Conversely, Washington fought for freedom.

Now Trump is saying not to take down Lee, or any others. I thought Trump hated losers. Methinks Trump's racism is sticking out like a sore thumb. Good ol' Kentucky boy Mitch McConnell should love that. What's he? a tractor republican? or a Hummer conservative?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I support the removal of Confederate monuments by every legal means. I never said anything in support of mob rule and you lied and said I did. Now you're trying to obscure that fact.

Well I'm glad you cleared that up because the conversation as I understood Post 1 is about using illegal means and mob rule to remove the statues, which by the way is how all of them have been removed this last week.

No one to my understanding was discussing putting them up, a process which probably took place over 100 years ago though I don't know.

You may be right that the spirit behind those who initially put them up was not right, but if the citizens of NC or any other Southern state wish to remedy that then use the constitutional provisions.

There are several things that have bothered me about this entire episode.

1. No one would have cared about some stupid KKK rally in NC had it not been for the antifa fighting them leading to the killing.

2. The issue over some stupid statue, do we keep it or take it down, is so completely meaningless to more important issues that we are facing. How does the media dive into this as though it is important?

3. If people are truly concerned about these statues why didn't they do anything about it over the last 8 years during Obama's terms. Why now? It seems very contrived to me.

4. We have ISIS, a group that can easily be compared to the KKK, as well as militant Black factions. Perhaps the leadership of Black Lives Matter does not espouse violence, but just like this event people sympathetic to their movement take it upon themselves to commit atrocities. I have always felt that the name "Black Lives Matter" is very provocative and threatening. I also felt it would cause a back lash among these fringe white supremacists. These groups do not get support unless it looks like they are on the front lines fighting your battle. This event seemed contrived to show these white supremacists as protecting the rights of whites, whereas the police murders seem designed to provoke cops into doing something that will go viral on Youtube.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Your representation of Germany is false. Let me remind you that in Germany today there are a number of groups which deny the holocaust ever existed. They are the neo-nazi's.

What did I say?:

Of course there are still Nazis in Germany and Europe but the problem is kept in check by banning the symbols and enforcement.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is all nonsense. You are not even American, and you are lecturing us on being Americans? Your extreme bias has blinded you.

I am against all KKK and neo-Nazi rhetoric. They have a history of violence, but so does the radical left. Why single out one side?

The problem for Trump and perhaps even yourself is that you see two types of "fine Americans" here on both sides.

But the facts are that only one side is standing for the United States and what it represents, and the other is standing for an attempt to separate from the USA and create a separate country that believes only white Americans are true Americans - that's what the civil war was about wasn't it?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Methinks Trump's racism is sticking out like a sore thumb.

Really? Got any evidence? Or is this all a media smear job?

Can someone be a racist for simply not climbing on the bandwagon? Since you are from Kentucky, and you never talked about being a confederate iconoclast until now, shall I assume that you just recently had a change of heart? Therefore, up until now, you have been a closet racist. Your dad was one. You must be one too. You're not getting off that easy. You are projecting your own racism on Trump.

I saw a serious of video clips last night on Hannity where Trump disavowed and condemned the KKK, neo-nazis, and white supremacists going back 20 years. So he is obviously not a racist. But from you, Mr. Awareness, I have never heard anything like that for the past 20 years. Therefore, the evidence is mounting that that perhaps you are the real racist. Your comments after the Charlottesville, VA tragedy prove it.

Fess up or act like an ostrich.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The problem for Trump and perhaps even yourself is that you see two types of "fine Americans" here on both sides.

But the facts are that only one side is standing for the United States and what it represents, and the other is standing for an attempt to separate from the USA and create a separate country that believes only white Americans are true Americans - that's what the civil war was about wasn't it?

This sounds exactly like hundreds of your other posts that flood this forum about how there are two types of church and only LSM is the "true church."

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This sounds exactly like hundreds of your other posts that flood this forum about how there are two types of church and only LSM is the "true church."

I cannot see how both the USA and the "Confederate States of America" are both the "true America".

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Methinks Trump's racism is sticking out like a sore thumb.

Suggesting a moral equivalence between a number of acts carried out by the Allies during the Second World War and the deeds of the Nazis, especially the Final Solution is a common strategy employed by apologists for the Nazis in Germany, such as politicians of the National Democratic Party of Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_equivalence

[Ohio]

The lawless alt-left anarchists are using the smokescreen created in Charlottesville, VA to activate their destructive base in order to completely restructure America.

Folks we are not taking about random statues in the deep South, but monuments all across the US. Wait till they unleash these guys on Wash D.C.

Corporate-owned Vice Magazine posted an article urging “Let’s Blow Up Mount Rushmore” which called for Americans’ politics, culture, and history to be purified by political fire.

“Let’s take with us the righteous ideas and beliefs and leave everything else on the pyre,” says the article about Rushmore by Wilbert Cooper, who is a senior editor at Vice.com. The media company is part-owned by Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox, and by A&E Networks, which is fully owned by Hearst Communications and Disney-ABC Television Group. According to Cooper:

More than ever, old monuments to famous white American men are being threatened … [because] the only way we can help America fulfill her promise is by shedding the faith and facing the truth. A big part of that process probably involves taking those men we’ve placed so high and bringing them back down to Earth where we can judge them for who they really were… As long as we allow those men to be cults of personality who exist beyond reproach, we’re never going to be able to see them for all of their good and all of their evil.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by awareness

Methinks Trump's racism is sticking out like a sore thumb.

Well that's a hard one. Anything that's disagreeable about Trump is considered fake news.

So I suppose this could be fake news (Trump's racism is sticking out like a sore thumb to these Rabbi's):

Rabbi That Oversaw Ivanka Trump’s Conversion to Judaism Slams Trump on Charlottesville Response
The rabbi who oversaw Ivanka Trump’s conversion to Judaism has released a letter to the congregation of Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump’s longtime synagogue condemning President Trump’s widely criticized statements about the violent protests in Charlottesville.

In a letter sent to members of Congregation Kehilath Jeshurun this evening, Rabbi Emeritus Haskel Lookstein (who oversaw Ivanka’s conversion), along with his successors Rabbi Chaim Steinmetz and Rabbi Elie Weinstock, said, “We are appalled by this resurgence of bigotry and antisemitism, and the renewed vigor of the neo-Nazis, KKK, and alt-right.”

The letter went on: “While we avoid politics, we are deeply troubled by the moral equivalency and equivocation President Trump has offered in his response to this act of violence.”

Copy of letter here (but it could all be made up out of whole cloth ... some will no doubt claim).
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...ams-trump.html

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The lawless alt-left anarchists are using the smokescreen created in Charlottesville, VA to activate their destructive base in order to completely restructure America.

Folks we are not taking about random statues in the deep South, but monuments all across the US. Wait till they unleash these guys on Wash D.C.

This is correct the anarchists wish to destroy the government but white supremacy is not the answer to that nor can they be considered equal or worse threats as Trump and yourself have implied them to be. The vision of anarchists is not as noxious nor views people of different races differently like the supremacists.

During WW2 the allies accepted any help they could get against the fascists, like the communists, anarchists, anyone who could beat up Nazis. Anarchists, not fascists, are the traditional allies of the US and they stand for the things the US is supposed to stand for in the world, even if they take them too far and their methods are wrong.

They are more about fighting fascism than violently pursuing a leftist agenda so I don't think there is anything to be concerned about them taking down all kinds of monuments.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The lawless alt-left anarchists are using the smokescreen created in Charlottesville, VA to activate their destructive base in order to completely restructure America.

Folks we are not taking about random statues in the deep South, but monuments all across the US. Wait till they unleash these guys on Wash D.C.

Right. Those damn Egyptians held the Hebrews as slaves. We should tear down the pyramids ... right after destroying all our founding monuments.

Who needs monuments? I'm a monumentsist. I hate 'em. All of them. Since a kid I've hated statues. Maybe it was my early Southern Baptist indoctrination, but I thought it idolized humans.

Who needs any of them? They're eventually all going to burn anyway. God don't give a damn about them.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This is correct the anarchists wish to destroy the government but white supremacy is not the answer to that nor can they be considered equal or worse threats as Trump and yourself have implied them to be. The vision of anarchists is not as noxious nor views people of different races differently like the supremacists.

Every post of mine condemns white supremacy and states that the answer is the rule of law. Obviously you have your own foreign agenda and/or you cannot read well.

How can you extol the "vision of anarchists" as being not as bad as supremacists? Wanton violence by the alt-left can somehow be excused? Tell that to the families of police officers gunned down because they were in uniform. Tell that to all the victims of wanton criminal activity.

Sorry Evan Gee but your smarts are seriously lacking wisdom.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Right. Those damn Egyptians held the Hebrews as slaves. We should tear down the pyramids ... right after destroying all our founding monuments.

Who needs monuments? I'm a monumentsist. I hate 'em. All of them. Since a kid I've hated statues. Maybe it was my early Southern Baptist indoctrination, but I thought it idolized humans.

Who needs any of them? They're eventually all going to burn anyway. God don't give a damn about them.

Are you both a racist and an iconiclast?

Any common sense left in your rage?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Every post of mine condemns white supremacy and states that the answer is the rule of law. Obviously you have your own foreign agenda and/or you cannot read well.

How can you extol the "vision of anarchists" as being not as bad as supremacists? Wanton violence by the alt-left can somehow be excused? Tell that to the families of police officers gunned down because they were in uniform. Tell that to all the victims of wanton criminal activity.

Sorry Evan Gee but your smarts are seriously lacking wisdom.

These people, are not just going around pulling down statues. That's not their agenda. Their agenda is to confront fascism whenever it pops up.

[awareness]

Now that the bulk of the GOP are flaccid toward Trump calling Nazis good people, we know that they support the Nazis, KKK, and white supremacists.

And since they are the majority this concerns me way more than any violence of the hate haters.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Now that the bulk of the GOP are flaccid toward Trump calling Nazis good people, we know that they support the Nazis, KKK, and white supremacists.

And since they are the majority this concerns me way more than any violence of the hate haters.

I guess all those Nazi genes from the 1000 or so Nazi scientists America took from Germany at the end of WW2 are finally starting to emerge from the gene pool as leaders.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This is correct the anarchists wish to destroy the government but white supremacy is not the answer to that nor can they be considered equal or worse threats as Trump and yourself have implied them to be. The vision of anarchists is not as noxious nor views people of different races differently like the supremacists.

During WW2 the allies accepted any help they could get against the fascists, like the communists, anarchists, anyone who could beat up Nazis. Anarchists, not fascists, are the traditional allies of the US and they stand for the things the US is supposed to stand for in the world, even if they take them too far and their methods are wrong.

They are more about fighting fascism than violently pursuing a leftist agenda so I don't think there is anything to be concerned about them taking down all kinds of monuments.

They even sided with the Vichy French, quasi Nazis themselves.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

These people, are not just going around pulling down statues. That's not their agenda. Their agenda is to confront fascism whenever it pops up.

Abraham Lincoln is now a fascist?

90-Year-Old Bust of Abe Lincoln Destroyed in Chicago Neighborhood

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Abraham Lincoln is now a fascist?

90-Year-Old Bust of Abe Lincoln Destroyed in Chicago Neighborhood

Breitbart didn't do the story justice. They mention Alderman Raymond Lopez, but don't tell his remarks about it.

Chicago Times does a better job.

"Ald. Ray Lopez (15th) on Thursday accused President Donald Trump of emboldening vandals to set fire to a bust of Abraham Lincoln that has stood as a symbol of freedom in West Englewood for nearly a century.

Lopez said Trump’s widely condemned decision to twice blame “both sides” for the white nationalist rally that turned deadly in Virginia has emboldened haters."
http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/674297/

The truth is they don't know who vandalized the Abe bust.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Breitbart didn't do the story justice. They mention Alderman Raymond Lopez, but don't tell his remarks about it.

Chicago Times does a better job.

"Ald. Ray Lopez (15th) on Thursday accused President Donald Trump of emboldening vandals to set fire to a bust of Abraham Lincoln that has stood as a symbol of freedom in West Englewood for nearly a century.

Lopez said Trump’s widely condemned decision to twice blame “both sides” for the white nationalist rally that turned deadly in Virginia has emboldened haters."
http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/674297/

The truth is they don't know who vandalized the Abe bust.

Hmm...what does Abe stand for?...racial equality?...who would wish to bring down a monument to racial equality?...Hmm

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Breitbart didn't do the story justice. They mention Alderman Raymond Lopez, but don't tell his remarks about it.

Chicago Times does a better job.

"Ald. Ray Lopez (15th) on Thursday accused President Donald Trump of emboldening vandals to set fire to a bust of Abraham Lincoln that has stood as a symbol of freedom in West Englewood for nearly a century.

Lopez said Trump’s widely condemned decision to twice blame “both sides” for the white nationalist rally that turned deadly in Virginia has emboldened haters."
http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/674297/

The truth is they don't know who vandalized the Abe bust.

Are you just now beginning to get the point?

Go back to Humperdink's opening post and read again.

Soon the media will begin to blame every crime and social ill on "Trump the fascist." Wolf Blitzer yesterday suggested that Barcelona was a copycat of C'ville, implying that Trump will soon get blamed for those events too.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are you just now beginning to get the point?

Go back to Humperdink's opening post and read again.

Soon the media will begin to blame every crime and social ill on "Trump the fascist." Wolf Blitzer yesterday suggested that Barcelona was a copycat of C'ville, implying that Trump will soon get blamed for those events too.

Yeah, with Trump the buck stops everywhere else.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"Trump the fascist."

You are just now beginning to get the point.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are you just now beginning to get the point?

Go back to Humperdink's opening post and read again.

Soon the media will begin to blame every crime and social ill on "Trump the fascist." Wolf Blitzer yesterday suggested that Barcelona was a copycat of C'ville, implying that Trump will soon get blamed for those events too.

I enjoyed this cartoon this week --

The left will not permit thought or speech that contradicts what we believe is acceptable… We will destroy property when we determine it advances our just cause…We will cleanse history of all that we find offensive!

Why would you want to do all that?

To suppress fascism of course.

[zeek]

Trump was wrong. Good people don't march with Nazis.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Abraham Lincoln is now a fascist?

90-Year-Old Bust of Abe Lincoln Destroyed in Chicago Neighborhood

You are quoting Bannon's far-right propaganda outlet. Is that where you get all your news from?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump was wrong. Good people don't march with Nazis.

Good people don't say that people who march with Nazis are good people.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump was wrong. Good people don't march with Nazis.

I think you are referring to his saying that many of the people at the rally were "fine" people. The word fine can also mean "satisfactory behavior". It was a very poor job on his part, but to say that some of them behaved in a satisfactory way, referring to the rally is not worthy of this hoopla.

The day he declared his intent to run he said illegal aliens from Mexico were rapists, drug dealers and some of them were good people.

After the Democrats convention he insulted the parents of a gold star war hero.

If people who elected him are upset that now he is putting his foot in his mouth then shame on them.

On the other hand if this is sour grapes from all those who didn't vote for him then shame on them.

[ZNPaaneah]

"An infographic from the Southern Poverty Law Center demonstrates that the majority of the monuments were built between 1910 and 1920 as Jim Crow became law throughout the south and, later, during the 1950s and 1960s as African Americans demanded full citizenship.
These are monuments to white supremacy, and therein lies the connection with the “white supremacist thugs” we saw in Charlottesville. But Trump, like so many others, chooses to actively forget this history in order to preserve an illusory innocence that hides our national sins." (from a story on Yahoo news).

If this is the case by all means mobilize a group of those concerned, Perhaps the NAACP and move for legislation to remove these statues. Confront it. Very few of us knew when "most of these statues" were built or what the motive was. We don't live in these states. But you live in a democracy, if you are offended at a statue that was erected in your state or city by all means work to get a referendum passed to remove the statue. No one has any issue with whether or not NC keeps or removes the statue. The only issue is that you have people dressed in black, with masks on, going around beating people with clubs because they disagree with them, tearing down statues illegally, and vandalizing the statues.