What Does Mind Renewal Really Mean?

[Cal]

"Be transformed by the renewing of your mind." That's what Romans 12:2 tells us. Since the buzzword "transformed" was used, Witness Lee conformed this verse (pun intended) to mean that mind renewal was a matter of being "metabolically" changed, that mysterious hard-to-pin-down process by which God's "element" is somehow "in-wrought" into our being. i.e. soul.

This understanding of renewal and transformation, of God getting "added to our being," dies pretty hard for former LCers--which is interesting since the idea is neither taught nor suggested in the Bible, nor supported by experience. If God's element is added to our soul, just where does that element disappear to when we have a bad day-- you know, a day when you totally fall off the wagon and do things that would make unbelievers blush? But Lee's heady definitions are attractive in their fuzzy promises of making us "like God" (see Genesis 3:5). That's why they are hard to let go. More "high peak" gnosis for Gnostics.

So what is mind renewal, and what is transformation? Although there is no doubt that the Spirit is involved in any real transformation, I would offer that mind renewing simply is what it sounds like. It's learning to think differently (Phil 4:8). Where the Spirit comes in is that transformed thinking is of a pattern that you could not arrive at without His help. But it all boils down to how you think, not what mysterious element is added to your pseuche. The mind, after all, practically speaking, is just our thoughts.

When all is said and done Lee's definition of transformation is a total misaiming. No God element addition. No infusion. No tea-water. Just the Spirit teaching you to think different thoughts. That's it.

What did you think about today?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

When all is said and done Lee's definition of transformation is a total misaiming. No God element addition. No infusion. No tea-water. Just the Spirit teaching you to think different thoughts. That's it.

Five years or so ago I might have accused you of trying to do things "without the Spirit" even though you say that it is the Spirit teaching us. The fact that it was about us thinking different thoughts was the likely culprit.

But you know my current "place" and know that I am on board with your thinking here.

I am not even as concerned about how much "time reading the Word" is undertaken as long as the meditation is on it. I spend a lot of time each day considering the Word, but much of that time is not with a Bible and/or research materials open to dig through it. Instead it is just considering something I have read or heard recently, taking in both what might have been said about it and what washes through me as I undertake to think about it myself. And the Spirit gives me some occasional "ahas" along the way. Never any "new" light other than the fact that it is new to me. And on occasion it is new to a lot of us.

And as a result, I am currently sitting on a lot of thoughts that just don't travel well within the Christian circles in which I move, yet I find no reason to change circles.

Originally Posted by Igzy

What did you think about today?

• Recommendations for an offshore holding company for a foreign-based client.
• US tax implications of Brazilian ownership of US operations under different structural models.
• Issues related to the "flag" of a yacht in the Caribbean that is owned by an Australian company.

Are your eyes glazing over yet?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by OBW

• Recommendations for an offshore holding company for a foreign-based client.
• US tax implications of Brazilian ownership of US operations under different structural models.
• Issues related to the "flag" of a yacht in the Caribbean that is owned by an Australian company.

Are your eyes glazing over yet?

At first I thought you were were talking about newly discovered LC financial shenanigans.

But you bring up a good point. Would the Lord Jesus never think about the things you mention? He'd be happy to, if his job was accounting. He after all, had to think about his carpentry, and did so fully in the joy of the Father. (I realize some things strain our brains more than others, but I guess that's just another test that we eventually need to grow out of.)

[OBW]

Igzy,

A little off topic, but I note your new byline:

Q: How do you know when you've passed life's tests?
A: When they don't feel like tests anymore


I think that it only is partly true. When a particular test no longer feels like a test, you may have passed that one. But there is always another.



However, if you don't think you have any tests, there are only two possibilities (from my way of thinking):

1. You have died and it is pencils down.
2. You are deluded and have stopped moving forward through the never-ending (in this lifetime) chain of tests.

(wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more)

[Cal]

Originally Posted by OBW

Igzy,

A little off topic, but I note your new byline:

Q: How do you know when you've passed life's tests?
A: When they don't feel like tests anymore


I think that it only is partly true. When a particular test no longer feels like a test, you may have passed that one. But there is always another.


However, if you don't think you have any tests, there are only two possibilities (from my way of thinking):

1. You have died and it is pencils down.
2. You are deluded and have stopped moving forward through the never-ending (in this lifetime) chain of tests.

I'm glad you noticed it. The presumption of my maxim is that a person is being honest and not deluding himself.

The idea came to me when I was complaining to the Lord about something that kept occurring in my life and kept annoying me. I asked, "Haven't I passed this test yet?!" I felt his answer was if I had passed it I wouldn't be complaining about it in the manner I was. That is, if it didn't bother me anymore then that would show it wasn't testing me anymore. Whether it stopped or continued then would make less difference, because I could handle either circumstance.

We often ask, "Why is this happening?" The answer is, always, because we need it to happen. The bottom line is how well we can accept that.

I don't think we ever reach a point where nothing tests us, at least on this side of the veil. But we can reach a point where less things test us.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I'm glad you noticed it. The presumption of my maxim is that a person is being honest and not deluding himself.

The idea came to me when I was complaining to the Lord about something that kept occurring in my life and kept annoying me. I asked, "Haven't I passed this test yet?!" I felt his answer was if I had passed it I wouldn't be complaining about it in the manner I was. That is, if it didn't bother me anymore then that would show it wasn't testing me anymore. Whether it stopped or continued then would make less difference, because I could handle either circumstance.

We often ask, "Why is this happening?" The answer is, always, because we need it to happen. The bottom line is how well we can accept that.

I don't think we ever reach a point where nothing tests us, at least on this side of the veil. But we can reach a point where less things test us.

Good thoughts.

As is obvious by my initial response, I took the reference to "life's tests" as comprehensive, therefore only not there when we reach the other side. But I knew better than to infer that was actually your meaning.

As you might suspect, I drive my wife crazy at times taking things quite literally at face value and thereby intentionally misunderstanding her.

The problem is that sometimes it is not intentional, but happens anyway.

"But you said . . . ."
"You know what I meant!"
"A little presumptive. What if I didn't know that?"
"But you did."

(And occasionally it goes on in circles.)

[Cal]

Originally Posted by OBW

As you might suspect, I drive my wife crazy at times taking things quite literally at face value and thereby intentionally misunderstanding her.

Yep. Brings to mind this:

What it's like to live with a software engineer.

A wife asks her husband, who is a software engineer: "Could you please go shopping for me and buy one carton of milk, and if they have eggs, get six cartons!" A short time later the husband comes back with six cartons of milk. The wife asks him, "Why did you buy six cartons of milk?" He replies, "They had eggs."

[OBW]

Sorry for taking your thread so far off track. It was "enlightening" but not really meaningful.

When I think about the renewing of the mind, I know that there is an aspect of the Spirit, yet it seems to be more about changing our minds than having our minds changed for us. Having lived a life in which a collection of actions and attitudes were the default way of living and thinking, there is surely some change that must take place, especially where those default actions and thoughts are contrary to the living of the Christian life.

I come to realize that I need to change my mind. And it begins with an "outward" acceptance of the new way of thinking and living. And most will have some success in starting down this path. Yet it will not be simple. We will discover that we continue to think that certain things are "right" or "righteous" when they are not. And even where we know the right way or thoughts, there will be some that we will have trouble really getting in sync with.

Is the Spirit necessary? Absolutely. Can we just read our Bible and both figure it out and find the way to do it? Sometimes, but not always. While the extent to which we are able to see what should be and do it is commendable (despite some teaching that we simply cannot do it on our own), yet there are always things with which we need help. Help seeing what it is. Help seeing that we are failing at it. Help in doing it.

And that help comes from different places. From our Christian community. From the empowerment of the Holy Spirit (which we must seek, not just assume it will come when needed).

I would argue that the renewal of our mind is about the way our mind thinks when simply in default mode. That does not mean that everything about us is always on board and things just happen the way our mind wants. But our mind is the key to our change. If we are not thinking the right way, we are not going to act the right way no matter how much Bible we read or prayers we raise to the heavens.

But at the same time, our mind will not simply change because we declare that it should. If we think wrong on certain matters, ignoring them and the right thinking that should be replacing them will not happen. No amount of spiritual enjoyment will replace our bad thinking unless we are considering our thinking in light of right thinking as we have that spiritual enjoyment.

In other words, "don't worry about it" is not an acceptable approach to the renewing of your mind.

You need to learn what is the right thinking. That will be found outside of ourselves (not simply "in my spirit"), such as in the Bible (and primarily so). What others tell us is right thinking cannot be ignored, but it must also be vetted against he Bible (some people will tell us anything).

And we must pray. We must seek the guidance of the one that we call Lord. Yet we should not expect that he will simply tell us privately what is the right answer. Instead, we will more often be enlightened as we see what he has already told us in his Word.

Then we need to continue to pray, and to set out minds and wills to live as if what we think is the truth. The mind does not transform us. But it is the key to transformation. If our minds do not start the move toward transformation, it will not happen. Presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice is good. But until the mind is on board, it is not effective. Only when we are behind transformation with our cognitive faculties will we actually begin to change.

And it will not happen through some magical process in which we are not engaged. I know that everyone likes to talk about grace. But grace also requires that we get involved. It doesn't just give us what we don't have without our participation. It also teaches us to obey. So we have no excuse. "I don't have enough dispensing" is not a valid excuse.

[awareness]

This may strike you as hard to believe and likely objectionable but I feel that the Spirit has been working to change my mind since leaving the local church. And I try to express it out here. If I can get around UntoHim ... which is difficult. He's pretty sharp, and onto me.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

This may strike you as hard to believe and likely objectionable but I feel that the Spirit has been working to change my mind since leaving the local church. And I try to express it out here. If I can get around UntoHim ... which is difficult. He's pretty sharp, and onto me.

Dont have to worry about UntoHim ... He has been in the same mind changing work of the Spirit since leaving the local church.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Dont have to worry about UntoHim ... He has been in the same mind changing work of the Spirit since leaving the local church.

I think we're all in the process of that process.