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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Goodness bro Ohio, come out for hate why don't you. Seems to me what you are saying is that, I hate Christians, and Jews, and I'm messing up by not hate Muslims, and, by the way, liberals. Hey, I may as well throw the conservatives in there too. Cuz I've got my hands full with just the Christians. Something is wrong with me. I'm not able to hate enough, nor to keep up with all the hate required in the world.

Should we really be hating labels? Should we actually be putting people in categories, and then hating all in that category, without realizing that we might be putting people in the category that don't fit there ; when there are actually good and bad people in each an every category???

I don't get it. Why must we hate? What is it about humans that makes them have to have someone(s) to hate?

When did I say to hate anyone? Did you even read what I wrote?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When did I say to hate anyone? Did you even read what I wrote?

I think you critiqued Obama's administration. That usually results in a knee jerk reaction of "hate" and "racist".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think you critiqued Obama's administration. That usually results in a knee jerk reaction of "hate" and "racist".

I understand, after Hillary's epic loss, many young liberals are now suffering from PTSD, not unlike our soldiers returning from battle.

[zeek]

"America rejects bigotry. We reject every act of hatred against people of Arab background or Muslim faith. America values and welcomes peaceful people of all faiths -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and many others. Every faith is practiced and protected here, because we are one country. Every immigrant can be fully and equally American because we're one country. Race and color should not divide us, because America is one country."

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...dan/islam.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

"America rejects bigotry. We reject every act of hatred against people of Arab background or Muslim faith. America values and welcomes peaceful people of all faiths -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and many others. Every faith is practiced and protected here, because we are one country. Every immigrant can be fully and equally American because we're one country. Race and color should not divide us, because America is one country."

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...dan/islam.html

Great quote!

Those were the good ole days.

Then Obama screwed it all up.

[Evangelical]

Separation of church and state in Islam is a yes and no answer.
Firstly, there is no concept of "church" in Islam, so in that sense there is no separation of religion from the state. Ideologically there is not, but in practice there often is. This is evident by 50% of nations with majority Islamic population being democracies (or close enough to it). Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation, is evident of that - a secular democratic government with a large muslim population. Actually it is incorrect to say Indonesia is a Muslim nation. It is a secular multi-faith nation with a large number of Muslims.

Karen Armstrong, Instructor at Leo Baeck College for the Study of Judaism, in a Oct. 22, 2001 Salon.com interview titled "Fundamental Problems," stated the following:
"Even though ideologically [in Islam] there can be no separation between church and state, both Sunnis and Shiites developed a separation very early on. In the Sunni world, the separation was de facto; Islamic law developed as kind of a counterculture to the aristocratic courts. In the Shiite world, there was a separation of church and state on principle. It was held that since every state was corrupt, clerics should take no part in them, that the religious should withdraw until the messiah came and established a proper Muslim state."


Can read the 'yes' and 'no' side here:
http://israelipalestinian.procon.org...stionID=000603


The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

The Quran also teaches freedom of religion:

“There is no compulsion in religion — the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error.”— 2:256

Many Muslim clerics believe like Witness Lee did - they should stay out of government so they don't "defile" themselves.

Most Muslims have no interest in seeing Sharia Law replace the existing Constitution. They live their lives in peace according to their beliefs and believe that one day the secular governments will be overthrown when the Messiah comes. This is not unlike most Christians who also have no interest in seeing "Christian law" (e.g. the 10 commandments) replace existing laws of government, but believe that things will change when the Messiah comes.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Separation of church and state in Islam is a yes and no answer.
Firstly, there is no concept of "church" in Islam, so in that sense there is no separation of religion from the state. Ideologically there is not, but in practice there often is. This is evident by 50% of nations with majority Islamic population being democracies (or close enough to it). Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation, is evident of that - a secular democratic government with a large muslim population. Actually it is incorrect to say Indonesia is a Muslim nation. It is a secular multi-faith nation with a large number of Muslims.

Karen Armstrong, Instructor at Leo Baeck College for the Study of Judaism, in a Oct. 22, 2001 Salon.com interview titled "Fundamental Problems," stated the following:
"Even though ideologically [in Islam] there can be no separation between church and state, both Sunnis and Shiites developed a separation very early on. In the Sunni world, the separation was de facto; Islamic law developed as kind of a counterculture to the aristocratic courts. In the Shiite world, there was a separation of church and state on principle. It was held that since every state was corrupt, clerics should take no part in them, that the religious should withdraw until the messiah came and established a proper Muslim state."


Can read the 'yes' and 'no' side here:
http://israelipalestinian.procon.org...stionID=000603


The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

The Quran also teaches freedom of religion:

“There is no compulsion in religion — the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error.”— 2:256

Many Muslim clerics believe like Witness Lee did - they should stay out of government so they don't "defile" themselves.

Most Muslims have no interest in seeing Sharia Law replace the existing Constitution. They live their lives in peace according to their beliefs and believe that one day the secular governments will be overthrown when the Messiah comes. This is not unlike most Christians who also have no interest in seeing "Christian law" (e.g. the 10 commandments) replace existing laws of government, but believe that things will change when the Messiah comes.

You said it was "against the Koran to mix church and state". The verse that you provide from the Koran to support that is 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion -- the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error".

I'm sorry, I don't see how this supports the claim that it is "against the Koran to mix church and state". Even if some Muslims have practiced their faith with this as a practice there are just as many who justify their actions of "Mixing church and state" generally referred to as "Sharia Law" with the Koran.

Sharia, Sharia law, or Islamic law (Arabic: شريعة‎‎ (IPA: [ʃaˈriːʕa])) is the religious law forming part of the Islamic tradition. It is derived from the religious precepts of Islam, particularly the Quran and the Hadith.

Also what a shining example of separation of church and state is Indonesia. This is a report from Amnesty International a few months ago:

The Indonesian police should immediately drop the criminal investigation into Jakarta’s governor for alleged blasphemy, Amnesty International said today.

The organization’s call came as the Indonesian police named Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, the Governor of Jakarta better known as ‘Ahok’, as a suspect in a blasphemy complaint filed by some religious groups. Ahok, a Christian, is the first member of Indonesia’s ethnic Chinese community to be elected Governor of Jakarta.

“By carrying out a criminal investigation and naming Ahok as a suspect, the authorities have shown they are more worried about hard-line religious groups than respecting and protecting human rights for all,” said Rafendi Djamin, Amnesty International’s Director for Southeast Asia and the Pacific.

“Among the police, opinion is divided on whether the case should proceed, showing that the decision to open an investigation against Ahok is a controversial step.”

At a press conference on Wednesday, the Head of the Criminal Investigation Department of the National Police Headquarters, Comr. General Ari Dono said, “Although there are different opinions among police investigators most agreed that the case should be settled in an open trial.”

Yes, a Christian is elected governor of a province in Indonesia and so is accused of blasphemy by "religious groups" and then arrested by the Indonesian police and investigated for criminal prosecution. If this is how a governor is treated, one can only wonder how the average Christian is treated. Are there any religious groups other than Muslims that accuse others of blasphemy as a criminal offense? Don't know, but feel it is a very safe bet that there aren't any others in Indonesia.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great quote!

Those were the good ole days.

Then Obama screwed it all up.

"The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."

George W. Bush
Remarks by the President at Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
Washington, D.C.
September 17, 2001

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

"The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."
Remarks by the President at Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
Washington, D.C.
September 17, 2001

Ever hear of al-Taqiyya: "deception; the islamic word for concealing or disguising one’s beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies."

And read this:
Muslims lie not because they are liars by nature but by choice. Systematic lying as a religious policy is deadly, and if our politicians do not understand this, thousands could die.

It is simply impossible to believe anything a mooslim tells us, because he/she can obey sharia law by lying to us.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When did I say to hate anyone? Did you even read what I wrote?

No I didn't. It exuded too much hate. Was it lying to me? I hope so. I really hate hate.

But really. Okay I'm hard on Christianity, the Jews and the Bible. But I wouldn't ban any of them. And of course if I got on Islam's case I would likely be as bad, and am, at times with Muslim "friends" on Facebook. I am weak on the point. I've read the Quran, but don't know it like the Bible (it reminds me of the Old Testament). And I realize there are violent Muslims. They're human. But I wouldn't ban them either ; not as a classified group. Most Muslim's aren't violent, thank God, or Allah ... what/whoever.

For a while I was helping a young student here at Murray State University. He was a Muslim from India. He was Sunni. He spewed disdain for Shiite (not Muslim he said) and Hindus. He talked up India like it's the greatest country in the world. But I loved the kid. Even tho he was a Muslim, he was basically a good person, in the struggle of life, like the rest of us.

I asked why we hate. It's obviously a cultural thing. Our culture is good. Their's is not. My tribe good. Yours not. My tribe is real people. Yours is not.

But as Christians we're supposed to be a "new man." I'll leave all the characteristics of the new man to bro ZNP, but I doubt it includes stereotypically hating groups of people ; whether liberals, Muslims, blacks, gays, or otherwise. That to me should be both liberal and conservative values.

Besides, do we really want to advertise to the world that Jesus failed us?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

No I didn't. It exuded too much hate. Was it lying to me? I hope so. I really hate hate.

But really. Okay I'm hard on Christianity, the Jews and the Bible. But I wouldn't ban any of them. And of course if I got on Islam's case I would likely be as bad, and am, at times with Muslim "friends" on Facebook. I am weak on the point. I've read the Quran, but don't know it like the Bible (it reminds me of the Old Testament). And I realize there are violent Muslims. They're human. But I wouldn't ban them either ; not as a classified group. Most Muslim's aren't violent, thank God, or Allah ... what/whoever.

For a while I was helping a young student here at Murray State University. He was a Muslim from India. He was Sunni. He spewed disdain for Shiite (not Muslim he said) and Hindus. He talked up India like it's the greatest country in the world. But I loved the kid. Even tho he was a Muslim, he was basically a good person, in the struggle of life, like the rest of us.

I asked why we hate. It's obviously a cultural thing. Our culture is good. Their's is not. My tribe good. Yours not. My tribe is real people. Yours is not.

But as Christians we're supposed to be a "new man." I'll leave all the characteristics of the new man to bro ZNP, but I doubt it includes stereotypically hating groups of people ; whether liberals, Muslims, blacks, gays, or otherwise. That to me should be both liberal and conservative values.

Besides, do we really want to advertise to the world that Jesus failed us?

Of course Jesus failed.

We need to tell every one!

He died on the cross, didn't He?

And that's the good news of the gospel!