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Little Flock/Local Church Spinoffs Various groups or ministries which are lead by former members/followers of Watchman Nee's Little Flock or Witness Lee's Local Church

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Old 07-21-2008, 03:28 PM   #1
Testing123
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Default The Church in Moses Lake

The Church in Moses Lake has a new website:

http://www.thechurchinmoseslake.org

The group disassociated with LSM in the 1980s. It appears that the they are now affiliated, to some extent, with Bill Freeman. Material of his can be found at the website, along with other audio messages and writing.
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:50 PM   #2
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testing123 do you know why the group in Moses Lake disassociated themselves from the LSM? Was it the same reasons as Europe, etc did in the 1980s?
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:43 PM   #3
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testing123 do you know why the group in Moses Lake disassociated themselves from the LSM? Was it the same reasons as Europe, etc did in the 1980s?
djohnson, I am only familiar with the situation through a brother that formerly met there. So, this is what I have been told. As far as I have understood it, the issue in Moses Lake was not specifically about Philip Lee and his improprieties, but more the general problem of "the ministry" (of Witness Lee) beginning to supercede the church and the local aspect of the church. So, I do not believe that Moses Lake was directly related to or influenced by the activity of John Ingalls, John So, etc., but I believe that the changeover was a product of the same era and some similar realizations.

That all said, much of the lingo on the website, and much of the meeting style (as I heard on the audio) is still very "Local Churchy," even after twenty years. Not necessarily a criticism, just an observation.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:51 PM   #4
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I tried to listen to one of the messages on their web site. Wow, what a sleeping pill that was. The congregation sounded positively comatose, and the speaker seemed somambulant himself. Those poor people. I can imagine being a young person in one of those meetings thinking "I'd rather eat glass than be here!"
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:27 PM   #5
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I tried to listen to one of the messages on their web site. Wow, what a sleeping pill that was. The congregation sounded positively comatose, and the speaker seemed somambulant himself. Those poor people. I can imagine being a young person in one of those meetings thinking "I'd rather eat glass than be here!"
Ummmm .... there are lots of times I have trouble sleeping.



Maybe this is the answer!

Take two of these, call me in the morning.

I think I'm being a little mean ....

(Igzy was kind, but I am sort of mean. And just after asking for gentleness on another thread. Oh, mixed up finallyprettyokay! ) (It's Romans 6 all over again!)

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Old 02-16-2010, 06:04 AM   #6
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I tried to listen to one of the messages on their web site. Wow, what a sleeping pill that was. The congregation sounded positively comatose, and the speaker seemed somambulant himself. Those poor people. I can imagine being a young person in one of those meetings thinking "I'd rather eat glass than be here!"
I think it is very unfair to make a judgement on any situation in a manner like this. Igzy said.."I tried to listen to one of the messages".....and then passes judgement on the ones meeting in Moses Lake by saying "Those poor people".

No one can make a correct judgement on any situation by simply listening to part of a message that was spoken there at some time in the past. I have known many of the ones meeting there since the early 70's and have been fortunate to have attended and participated in many meetings and conferences in Moses Lake over these years. And I can say this.....I would never refer to the ones meeting there as ...."Those poor people".

I can testify that my spirit has been refreshed many times by the fellowship there. They are our dear brothers and sisters and the Spirit of the Lord is with them.

On the Lord's Day meeting all the saints are free to sing, pray, testify or whatever and before the younger ones leave the meeting they are all brought forward and the whole church prays together over them before they leave the main meeting and have their time together.....it's really quite a good thing to get to participate in. It's not at all like "eating glass".
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:47 PM   #7
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djohnson, I am only familiar with the situation through a brother that formerly met there. So, this is what I have been told. As far as I have understood it, the issue in Moses Lake was not specifically about Philip Lee and his improprieties, but more the general problem of "the ministry" (of Witness Lee) beginning to supercede the church and the local aspect of the church. So, I do not believe that Moses Lake was directly related to or influenced by the activity of John Ingalls, John So, etc., but I believe that the changeover was a product of the same era and some similar realizations.
You've got it about right.

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Old 01-05-2011, 03:22 PM   #8
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I think it is very unfair to make a judgement on any situation in a manner like this. Igzy said.."I tried to listen to one of the messages".....and then passes judgement on the ones meeting in Moses Lake by saying "Those poor people".

No one can make a correct judgement on any situation by simply listening to part of a message that was spoken there at some time in the past. I have known many of the ones meeting there since the early 70's and have been fortunate to have attended and participated in many meetings and conferences in Moses Lake over these years. And I can say this.....I would never refer to the ones meeting there as ...."Those poor people".

I can testify that my spirit has been refreshed many times by the fellowship there. They are our dear brothers and sisters and the Spirit of the Lord is with them.

On the Lord's Day meeting all the saints are free to sing, pray, testify or whatever and before the younger ones leave the meeting they are all brought forward and the whole church prays together over them before they leave the main meeting and have their time together.....it's really quite a good thing to get to participate in. It's not at all like "eating glass".
Thanks for the positive testimony.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Oregon View Post
I think it is very unfair to make a judgement on any situation in a manner like this. Igzy said.."I tried to listen to one of the messages".....and then passes judgement on the ones meeting in Moses Lake by saying "Those poor people".

No one can make a correct judgement on any situation by simply listening to part of a message that was spoken there at some time in the past. I have known many of the ones meeting there since the early 70's and have been fortunate to have attended and participated in many meetings and conferences in Moses Lake over these years. And I can say this.....I would never refer to the ones meeting there as ...."Those poor people".

I can testify that my spirit has been refreshed many times by the fellowship there. They are our dear brothers and sisters and the Spirit of the Lord is with them.

On the Lord's Day meeting all the saints are free to sing, pray, testify or whatever and before the younger ones leave the meeting they are all brought forward and the whole church prays together over them before they leave the main meeting and have their time together.....it's really quite a good thing to get to participate in. It's not at all like "eating glass".
Ditto. Although I only attended there four or five times.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
I tried to listen to one of the messages on their web site. Wow, what a sleeping pill that was. The congregation sounded positively comatose, and the speaker seemed somambulant himself. Those poor people. I can imagine being a young person in one of those meetings thinking "I'd rather eat glass than be here!"
Seems that everyone is reading this post differently than I am. This does not pass judgment on the people. It passes judgment on the system that forces them to endure a message that would put many to sleep. It suggests sympathy for them for what they have to endure.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:14 PM   #11
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The Church in Moses Lake has recently republished Bill Freeman's devotional The Supplied Life and is offering it for sale. More information can be found on the church's website.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:35 PM   #12
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I'm sure there's nothing in the Supplied Life devotional that I don't already have or cannot find in the Living Stream devotionals.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:23 PM   #13
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I'm sure there's nothing in the Supplied Life devotional that I don't already have or cannot find in the Living Stream devotionals.
Revelation 3:17
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:26 AM   #14
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Revelation 3:17
Like I said , lol, I should probably finish reading the many life studies I haven't finished yet before considering this book.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:47 AM   #15
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Like I said , lol, I should probably finish reading the many life studies I haven't finished yet before considering this book.
Perhaps you should be reading your Life Study instead of posting so much here.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:37 AM   #16
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Like I said , lol, I should probably finish reading the many life studies I haven't finished yet before considering this book.
Okay, go ahead.
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:02 PM   #17
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Perhaps you should be reading your Life Study instead of posting so much here.
Maybe you could help Jane write a 365 day devotional? It could be called "Morning Refreshment: a Lemon a Day"
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:54 PM   #18
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Maybe you could help Jane write a 365 day devotional? It could be called "Morning Refreshment: a Lemon a Day"
You seem put off that Jane would attempt to benefit the body of Christ with the burden on her heart, but you are totally silent when the leadership at your favorite publisher acts like Harvey Swinestein.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:40 PM   #19
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Revelation 3:17
I like the next verse : "and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."*

By the way :

Announcent that Bill Freeman is dead -- controversial group leader
Posted by: LionLaugh ()
Date: March 24, 2013 10:36PM

On Friday March 22 2013 at 9:30AM a wonderful brother in the Lord passed away.
His name was Bill Freeman. There has been a lot said about this man over his long and rich life. Good, Bad and Ugly. As with all of us. I was there with him and his family for 6 years in Scottsdale, Arizona. He had an incredible ministry and what I learned most from him was how to make Christ the center of everything I do! He also taught me to live and study the word in a experiential way. I was in my twenties. I am now in my forties and what he taught me has shaped me into the man of God I am today. For those who read this and know Bill and his wife Patsy. I will say this because of the controversy that surrounded them. This is the first I have spoken out publicly and shall do so from now on.
This happened after a meeting in Scottsdale, AZ. I was sitting behind Bill. He turned around and he said one of the most profound statements I have ever heard a preacher say. He said, "Chris, all this wonderful expression of this body of believers only works when they are focused on their personal, intimate, relationship with Jesus Himself through the Holy Spirit. If we lose focus of that, things will ultimately fall apart. And Chris, That is as it should be! "

Lord thank You for my brother Bill. You are now with the Lord that consumed your whole life and passion. And to those who take offense and issue with the man, his wife and his followers I would say this to you now and then: Is Jesus the primary focus of your morning, afternoon and evening. If it is not. Things are bad in your life. Then it is as it should be. After all, in the end it is still all about CHRIST and what HE did for us!

Chris Renner

https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?5,119545
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:44 AM   #20
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The similarities between the ministries of Freeman and Lee are readily apparent. Both of them "wowed" their adherents with a supposed unbelievable focus and knowledge of Christ from the scriptures, but both of them were enablers regarding their own family members to reek havoc on church marriages and families. How could W. Lee allow his two sons to rape, plunder, and abuse the saints? How could Bill Freeman allow his wife Patsy to arrange, manipulate, and devastate so many church marriages.

One friend of mine, who once lived in Seattle, talked about how Bill lived like a king there. Oh sure he was a gifted speaker, who loved to study the Bible, but he never was involved with the saints, never got his hands dirty, never served others, never got weighed down with the mundane.

The Apostle Paul was not a notable pattern to us because of his lofty and eloquent rhetoric, but how he was with the saints, night and day, in tears, every day, struggling on their behalf, weighed down with their problems. He was a doer of the word like no other.
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:53 AM   #21
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The similarities between the ministries of Freeman and Lee are readily apparent. Both of them "wowed" their adherents with a supposed unbelievable focus and knowledge of Christ from the scriptures, but both of them were enablers regarding their own family members to reek havoc on church marriages and families. How could W. Lee allow his two sons to rape, plunder, and abuse the saints? How could Bill Freeman allow his wife Patsy to arrange, manipulate, and devastate so many church marriages.

One friend of mine, who once lived in Seattle, talked about how Bill lived like a king there. Oh sure he was a gifted speaker, who loved to study the Bible, but he never was involved with the saints, never got his hands dirty, never served others, never got weighed down with the mundane.

The Apostle Paul was not a notable pattern to us because of his lofty and eloquent rhetoric, but how he was with the saints, night and day, in tears, every day, struggling on their behalf, weighed down with their problems. He was a doer of the word like no other.
So I recently (yesterday) started posting things on here again - the last time was 6 years ago (did y-all miss me? LOL). I am with a small number that are alive and remain in Scottsdale - with what is left of the group that once aligned with Bill Freeman. I came here in 1998, the very week after the "Big Blow-up" when the Freeman's left. I'll just say these past 20 years have been awesome, as the Lord has shown me so much more of His love for us than I every saw before.

We all have "warts" and Bill was no exception. I did hear him speak a few times, and it was powerful. But, alas, the warts . . .

Now as for Moses Lake, I've not been there, but they have paid the price to drive down here in a bus they bought, for a few annual church-camp conferences. These saints love Jesus and we have enjoyed some great fellowship together. I think we all care less about the theology these days (which knowledge tends to divide) and more about how we can better know Him in our daily lives, and build one another up in Christ.

BTW - Bro Ohio, where did you meet back there? I was in Columbus in the 1980s.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:33 AM   #22
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So I recently (yesterday) started posting things on here again - the last time was 6 years ago (did y-all miss me? LOL).
Sure. I missed the "Melancholy Man."
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:35 AM   #23
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So I recently (yesterday) started posting things on here again - the last time was 6 years ago (did y-all miss me? LOL). I am with a small number that are alive and remain in Scottsdale - with what is left of the group that once aligned with Bill Freeman. I came here in 1998, the very week after the "Big Blow-up" when the Freeman's left. I'll just say these past 20 years have been awesome, as the Lord has shown me so much more of His love for us than I every saw before.

We all have "warts" and Bill was no exception. I did hear him speak a few times, and it was powerful. But, alas, the warts . . .

Now as for Moses Lake, I've not been there, but they have paid the price to drive down here in a bus they bought, for a few annual church-camp conferences. These saints love Jesus and we have enjoyed some great fellowship together. I think we all care less about the theology these days (which knowledge tends to divide) and more about how we can better know Him in our daily lives, and build one another up in Christ.

BTW - Bro Ohio, where did you meet back there? I was in Columbus in the 1980s.
I was there in the early 80's.
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Old 05-29-2018, 01:48 PM   #24
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Sure. I missed the "Melancholy Man."
Well thanks! BTW - I much prefer "Minstrel's Song" which I believe has to be about Christ.

Listen to the one
Who sings of love.
Follow our friend,
Our wandering friend . . .
Hear the nations sing
Our minstrel's song,
As he walks by in their lives
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