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The Local Church in the 21st Century Observations and Discussions regarding the Local Church Movement in the Here and Now

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Old 06-11-2017, 11:02 AM   #1
HBJ
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Default Sheep stealing

Unforunately, some Christians outside the LC I know refer to the LC as sheep-stealers. I have to agree. When I was in the LC I remember by a ratio of at least 2 to 1, invading other churches to show them the "New and Living Way" vs. preaching the gospel to unbelievers! I think this came out of the LC culture of being better than Christianity. It happened when I was in Philadelphia. We were invited to a church midstate, and we packed up a school bus, went there and showed them how to be Christians. Then in college in NYC, the students in the LC took over my campus Christian fellowship for a day, and steamrollered everyone. That was one of the starting stepping stones to my leaving the LC. Any other experiences from anyone?
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Old 06-11-2017, 07:52 PM   #2
Bradley
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Default Re: Sheep stealing

When I was a student serving alongside full-timers we were taught not to focus on 'taken' Christians. Their attitude was this: If a fish jumps out of someone else's boat, into the water again and then into your boat, that's fine. But don't jump onto their boat, grab their fish and take them back onto your boat.

Firstly it was that we didn't want to be accused of being sheep stealers (we had heard of this problem), secondly it was because unbelievers generally had less understanding of the Bible and theology than existig Christians and were quicker to accept and understand LC teaching.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sheep stealing

I would say that yes, the LC uses sheep stealing as a way of gaining members. Our church experienced that first hand. They were subtle in their approach and by the end basically forced a split in our church by encouraging those who had taken to Lee's teaching to leave our fellowship.

The same group of LCers attempted the same tactic in another church that we know of but did not succeed in their mission. Fyi...this happened in Europe.

Also, I recently read that they were passing out their Recovery Bibles at a huge gathering of Christians meeting in Germany to celebrate the Reformation. Their only intent in doing that is to sheep steal, nothing else, in my opinion.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:18 AM   #4
aron
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Default Re: Sheep stealing

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I would say that yes, the LC uses sheep stealing as a way of gaining members. Our church experienced that first hand. They were subtle in their approach and by the end basically forced a split in our church by encouraging those who had taken to Lee's teaching to leave our fellowship.

The same group of LCers attempted the same tactic in another church that we know of but did not succeed in their mission. Fyi...this happened in Europe.

Also, I recently read that they were passing out their Recovery Bibles at a huge gathering of Christians meeting in Germany to celebrate the Reformation. Their only intent in doing that is to sheep steal, nothing else, in my opinion.
In China they took over congregations. India also. You should read some of the testimonies from India. Contact is made, an LC plant comes in, starts to assert influence upon some of the leading ones there. Eventually a decision is made to "go the LC way" and those who rightly smell a rat are ejected. If I can find some links I will post them.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: Sheep stealing

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Originally Posted by aron View Post
In China they took over congregations. India also. You should read some of the testimonies from India. Contact is made, an LC plant comes in, starts to assert influence upon some of the leading ones there. Eventually a decision is made to "go the LC way" and those who rightly smell a rat are ejected. If I can find some links I will post them.
Here is a very disturbing account of LC "church stealing" from John Deva Kumar in India.

Dear Brother,

Since last few years agents of LSM is very active in India. They have taken over more than 300 local church gatherings. There are many people from Taiwan who are propagating this cult. They visit the elders of local fellowships and tell them they are selling Watchman Nee's and Witness Lee's books. They make friendship with the elders families. They mingle easily as if they are like family members. Next step is to start a meeting in the home of the elder during evening and slowly indoctrinate them. They will tell the song books they are using are not scriptural and ask them to remove it and then they will ask them to replace all the bibles with recovery version bible since it is the only bible that is without errors. Next they will ask them to meditate only the writings of Witness Lee since it contain all what we want. Then they will ask every one in the meeting to say amen to every thing they say. All the LSM people will utter the same thing. They slowly teach the elder what they say is something special and superior to other teachings. They will claim they are the only recovered people and recovery of Church is only through Witness Lee and Watchman Nee.

The poor elder who hear these things start teaching these things in their church. Now LSM people will give the idea about having Lords day(Sunday) meeting together. Then they appear in the Church. They come in such a manner they have been send by Lord to recover Churches in the last days. Those who are not having discerning spirit will fall. Those few who raise questions are branded as enemies of Lords recovery and isolated to that extend they will leave the fellowship. Initially they never teach "man become god" or about "processed triune god". But soon one by one such teachings are introduced and any alternate thinking is branded as from evil spirit. There were 400 people in our church at Trivandrum, Kerala state, India. Now the church is under the control of LSM.

Now we few who left are trying to RECOVER the church for Lord. I will send a copy of the letter which I send to the believers in various churches in India taken over by LSM. This is my true experience.

May Lord bless your ministry. I request you to expose this cult who are really wolfs in sheeps cloths. Kindly look into the website "thethreadofgold.com". You can find the experience of a sister who was persecuted for her beliefs by LSM cult.

With love in Christ

John Deva Kumar

John writes well in this copy of the letter...

Warning to Brothers and Sisters Against Local Churches of Witness Lee Cult

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Greetings to all of you in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I write to you this letter with deep burden in my heart. We live in a time when Satan is moving around like a roaring lion to devour the faithful children of God. Many may not be aware that Satan also come in the form of angel of light to deceive many faithful children of God. Anyone who trust more on man, wealth or on miracles than God can be easily be deceived.

"Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in his name, He gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12

As His children our primary duty is to look unto Him for every need, be it spiritual or any physical need. We are given the privilege to approach the throne of grace in time of need. Heb 4:16

Brothers and Sisters we want to share with you some incidents that happened in our recent past and how our merciful Lord rescued us from the clutches of Satan. We wish you that will go through this letter carefully and ask the Lord (not man) for guidance.

"Dear friends if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him." 1 John 3:21,22

In the month of March 2005, one evening, I received a phone call. The caller identified himself as a brother in Christ and informed that he wanted to meet me and talk about their activities. He told me that he got my address from the elder of Trivandrum church. We fixed a time and two brothers and two sisters came, all of them were from Taiwan. We had a nice time of fellowship. All of us shared from word of God and sang some songs. Before departing, they told they would like to have fellowship with us regularly. So we fixed Wednesday’s evening for this purpose. Already we used to have a meeting every Wednesday in my home. I asked the brothers and sisters from Taiwan to come on Wednesdays because I wanted them to meet other brothers also who attend meeting regularly. Normally meetings in my home were not in highly formal manner. It was almost informal meetings. We used to come together, sing some songs, pray and all of us used to share from word of God. It was a joyful time.

The following Wednesday, the brothers from Taiwan came. They introduced themselves. They told that they were from Living Stream Ministries (LSM) and they are involved in selling books published by LSM. We were not much concerned about their activities. Since they told they were also believers, we welcomed them. Soon we started noticing some peculiar behavior in all of them. We noticed that all of them telling ‘O LORD JESUS’ in a peculiar ascent. For every sentence spoken by one of them, all others told Amen. They all used the same version of Bible. They had a song book in which songs were unusually long. After they sang a song, they read it stanza by stanza and others told amen. After the meeting, one younger brother asked why they behaved like this. I told that brother that it might be their way of fellowshipping. I have seen Nigerian fellowships. They move their body while singing and express their joy openly. I too thought that it might be the culture of Taiwanese to say amen after every sentence spoken by others. I thought in Taiwan they might read song after they sing the song. Even though we found it strange, we never took it seriously. I told the younger brothers that we must not feel bad if someone worship Lord in a different way. Soon the Taiwan brothers brought another brother who was an Indian. What surprised all of us is that he too was behaving in the same manner. Then we thought his long acquaintance with the Taiwanese brothers made him behave like that. Meanwhile the brothers from Taiwan gave us some books. They were all either written by Watchman Nee or Witness Lee. I used to read these books during my free time. I found many things written in these books unacceptable. I used to ask the brothers from LSM about it. They told me, ’we’ will study about it latter or sometime they gave evasive replay. Soon we noticed that they all repeat the same thing as if a tape recorder plays a short message again and again. Each of them told the same thing with the same degree of emotion. The same sentences and the same unfamiliar words like organic communion, processed God etc were told. I felt they really don’t know what they are talking and they have by hearted some things and are pouring it out. They quoted lot of verses from bible to support what they say. We also noticed they omit some things which they should have told in relation to the things they are talking about. I remember once they told we who are saved are pre destined be saved and others who are not being saved are not predestined to salvation . They took many verses to support their statement.

One young brother then told God want every one to be saved…1Tim 2:3,4. He also pointed out that hell is not created for man but for devil and his angels…Matt 25:41. I felt that they heard for the first time these verses and they are trained in such away they are oriented to think only in one direction. We continued fellowshipping together. Soon they came with some photocopies of some portions of Witness Lee’s writings and gave each one of us a copy. They asked each one to read a sentence. Then every one started telling amen. First, I didn’t take it seriously. I thought about many bible study sessions where we give photocopy of notes or main points. Soon it became a regular affair. Now our meetings started with 15 to 20-stanza hymn from a hymnbook that LSM brothers carried, that was dull and had confusing words. After singing, we started reading the stanzas one by one and they all together told amen. Then we read Witness Lees Book photocopy and said amen for every sentence.

Soon, I sensed some trouble. Others in the meeting also sensed trouble in the way we are moving. We asked the brothers from LSM why we should read only Witness Lees writings, why not other some other Christian authors books? We told them we need to listen the voice of Lord that lead us to a holy living rather than study something someone wrote long ago. We asked them to study Witness Lees writings privately and not in general meetings. We encouraged them to share from Bible what they learned during daily meditation. To my great surprise one brother from LSM told me that Witness Lees writing contain all that is spiritually required for a man. We were surprised because according to us Bible contain all that is required for a man spiritually. I felt undue importance is given to Witness Lee and Christ is pushed to background. This was done in a manner very difficult to detect.

We decided to pray to God to reveal the true intensions of people from LSM. We were fully convinced that bible is all-sufficient for us, and as His children, He will speak to us if we are sincere in seeking His face. We felt there is no need for depending on another book for learning bible. We felt it is better to trust in the Lord than man.

Meanwhile I received a call from Dr. Chacko Thomas, elder of Quilon church. He asked me to be very careful about people from LSM and informed that church at Trivandrum is completely under Witness Lee group. In the month of July 2005 I happened to visit Trivandrum. I wanted to go and meet believers at Trivandrum. I was very much eager to know its well being. My relation with Trivandrum Church started from 1992. Since then when ever I visit Trivandrum I used to attend the fellowship meetings there. Brothers and Sisters there were very good to me. They used to pray for us regularly and were like family members. They were with us during happy times as well as during sorrow times. The elder of Trivandrum church supported us in many ways. He used to encourage us spiritually. My marriage was conducted at Trivandrum church. We were all one in spirit and all of them loved each other. However, this time when I visited Trivandrum church I found situation entirely different. What I saw was a hall full of people (nearly 400) singing the same long songs of LSM that is translated in to Malayalam. There was total disorder. When one person says something, all others were shouting amen. Before anyone spoke, he shouted "O Lord Jesus" many times. Then he was trying to read Witness Lees book potions and all together shouted amen. When amen sounds reduced one of the elder stood up and encouraged every one to tell amen. After they sang a song, they read it to each other to fulfill the scripture…Eph5:19. They gave two minutes time for those who have prepared to speak. Such people stood in a line. Each one in the line came near the mike and shouted "O Lord Jesus" few times and then started reading from Witness Lees books and added his own few words. Since only 2 minutes were given, they talked very fast. A lady who was sitting near the electronic organ gave a bell sound at which the speaker stopped his speech and again shouted "O Lord Jesus" before leaving.The next one in the line then took over the mike and repeated the same. Since all were sharing from the same portion, all of them were speaking almost the same thing. I wonder whether they still do it. At last, one "serious brother" came and spoke for almost half an hour and the show ended. I was very eager to meet the elders of church. I asked one of them what is this you are doing. I was surprised to hear the replay. He told "What can I do. They want the things to be done in this way." I tried to reason with him but he told me to talk with other elders.

I went to another elder he told me "What can I alone do" I went to another elder. He told me they are already recovered and asked me to jump into their boat before it is too late for me. Meanwhile I noticed all songbooks are removed and replaced with Malayalam translation of hymnbooks of LSM. I asked why the song books are removed, the replay was strange. He told me those songs are not meaningful. The surprising thing is that old song book contain songs written by the wife of the same elder who told this. At that time when the song were written he told us Holy spirit gave those songs. They even released a cassette that contains songs given by Holy Spirit. After singing the songs for many years and telling that they are Spirit given songs now Spirit tells them that they are meaningless. I wonder how they could even think that Spirit will change the words. I sensed that the spirit that is now working there is different from that was working earlier.

I tried to reason with the elder but he was behaving as if he is the disciple of Witness Lee rather than disciple of Christ. Always people trained by LSM moved with the elders of the church constantly watching their activities. Now I realized that Trivandrum church has been taken over by Witness lee group as Dr Chako Thomas told me.

After I came back to Delhi I called the LSM brothers who were fellowshipping with us and had a lengthy discussion within them. I found there is a doctrine behind every action of theirs like calling on the name of the lord, saying amen, reading song to each other etc. I found these LSM trained people are brainwashed to believe in Witness Lees words, to speak like parrots repeating what they read from Witness Lees writings, and not to think anything beyond. His interpretation of Bible was final for them. When I asked can’t we read any other translation of Bible other than recovery version, the answer which I got was "Are you an expert in Greek and Hebrews to decide which translation of bible is correct?" They told us they are overcomers and recovery of church started with Witness Lee. They gave evasive answers for many questions. I also came to know they "raised" up 300 churches all over India. On enquiry, we came to know they are all existing churches taken over by LSM. Finally sensing trouble that they can cause on a long run to our spiritual life, we asked them to stop coming if they want to continue with the teaching of Witness Lee. Thus ended our 7-month association with LSM group. This group’s very cleaver in fooling others. If you ask them regarding their activities they can give many type of replay. They may tell they are businessmen doing business of LSM a publishing house, They can say they are sales man selling books of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee, They can say they are propagating Lords recovery, They can say they are trainees and so on. However, basically they are disciples of Witness Lee. As a cover-up, they use Watchman Nee’s name also. They catch others sympathy by telling about Watchman Nee, his suffering in communist China and his death in Jail etc.

Dear Brothers and Sisters we spend much time to study about this group. What we understand is this is a very dangerous CULT. By God’s grace, we came in touch with many brothers and sisters who have left Local church movement (of this group). From the information which we have collected and based on our own study what we found, I want to share with you. The contents of this personal letter is purely out of concern for believers who have fallen into the trap of Witness Lees followers. I wish you will read this personal letter to you carefully and ask Lord for guidance (not Man). It is something that concerns our spiritual life and we should not take it lightly.

1. MAN BECOME GOD
One of the most important heretical teaching of LSM and affiliated local Churches is man (overcomers) will become God. They confuse their statements by telling overcomers will become God but not Godhead. They claim "We believers in Christ may become God in Life, in Nature, in Constitution, in appearance and in Expression but not God head and not object of worship" Affirmation and critique by Ron Kangas Vol Vll No 2 October 2002 [this is doublespeak, for no one can be God in any way, because only God is God]. Some other statements made by the above-mentioned agent of LSM as explanation to this teaching is given below.

"We affirm the innate ability of human beings as creatures of God to be born of God to become God in life and in nature but not in Godhead..Page7
"Human children have the life and nature of their parents. Because we have been born of God we have life and nature of God and in this sense we are God."…Page 20

"By eating, digesting and assimilating God in Christ as our food, we shall be constituted with God and in this way become God………..Page 24
"Unless we become God we cannot be the body of Christ and unless we become God we cannot be New Jerusalem."…Page26
The above teaching is nothing but the teachings of New Age Movement represented by some non-Christian religions.

Dear Brothers and Sisters, do not be deceived. You may say that I don’t believe like this or you may say in our local church such a teaching is not there. Well this revelation LSM people got it as one of the latest. These things are slowly introduced in training programs and to elders. Then it slowly introduced in churches through them. Agents of Witness Lee are trained to test the pulse of listeners before making statements. During one of our meetings one person told, God need our help in establishing His Kingdom. We expressed our disapproval for that statement. What came to my mind was God could raise people from stones if he wants. Immediately they changed the topic. Their strategy is first they will talk about Gods needs, and then talk about importance of man, then how man becomes God. This is done in such a way they do not try to offend anyone.

Look what happened in Philippines. What I understand is first Local church was established in Manila city. In October 1994 Bro John So visited manila. He happened to meet some young brothers from church in Pasy, Metro Manila. They attended a young peoples training program. In that program people were strongly compelled to raise their hands and declare loudly and repeatedly "hallelujah, I am a baby God, I am a holy God, I am God". Those refused to make such declaration were dismissed from the training program.

My sincere request to you is if you do not approve this teaching then stand up and tell the elders about it and ask them if they approve it. Do not allow them to go away by giving silly answers like "we will study about this later" or " we don’t know" or "let those who want to believe do so". We need to have a clear stand.

I remember Trivandrum church elder used to say "we need to tell people about poison as poison and need not add sugarcoated words". I do not know whether the elders hold the same standards now also.

Now let us see from scriptures:
How great is the love the Father has lavished on us that we should be called CHILDEN OF GOD 1 John 3:1
Yet to all those who received Him he gave the right to become the CHILDREN OF GOD John 1:12
On the basis of above words we can conclude we believers are CHILDREN OF GOD and NOT GOD in any "sense" as Ron Kangas says. Witness Lee in his book God-men wrote, "However, according to the Scriptures, we, the believers in Christ, were all born of God to be His sons. As the sons of God, surely we are God-men. We are the same as the One of whom we were born. It would be impossible to be born of God and not be the sons of God. Since we are the sons of God, we are God-men."

According to Witness lee we are same as the One (God) of whom we are born, "..The Bible, according to God's economy, teaches all God's chosen ones, who have believed in Christ and have been regenerated by the Spirit and who have become the God-men, to be divine persons (Gal. 2:20; Phil. 1:19-21a)." "We are not turtles, because we do not have the turtle nature. We are men, for we do have the human nature. But we have also been born of God; we are God's sons, God's children. Thus, we have God's nature. Since we have God's nature, are we not God? In fact, we are God in His life and His nature, but not in His Godhead."

There are many such statements. I don’t want to fill the pages with such heretical statements. Let us look into reasons of such arguments. According to Witness Lee believers have God’s nature so they become God. Witness Lees many revelations were actually based on the teaching he got from his mother. His mother taught him those who eat fish smells like fish. Throughout his life, he argued based on this type of teaching.

He wrote "What we eat we become and we express". Then he went on giving the fish example….(Witness Lee-Basic revelations in scripture). Another time he told Americans smell milk because they consume lot of milk. (living 6) This type of thinking ultimately led to the argument that those having the nature of God are God.

Dear brothers I consume fish but till now those who were moving closely with me never told me that fish smell is coming from my body, nor I think I got the nature of fish. (of course fish smell may come if you spill some on your body and do not clean properly). Most of Witness lees strange revelations are baseless. Even a small child will not say by drinking milk smell of milk come from body.

Why do people get some such strange revelations? Why do some people think they became God? Nowhere in bible, it says that man will become God. Witness Lee himself confesses this. He says when we read scriptures this (man become God) is what revealed. Let us now look from Bible point of view and find out why people all of a suddenly start thinking they are God.

Bible says God handed over some people to a depraved mind to do what not to be done (read Romans 1:28 –32). Men with depraved mind think in a way they ought not to think. The one who try to take the glory that belong to God, the one who do not walk according to the light received, the one who rebel against God, the one who refuse to accept truth, these are the ones who do not like to retain God in their knowledge and they are the ones who are handed over to a depraved mind. Witness Lee’s arguments clearly shows he had a depraved mind.

Ron Kangas wrote in Affirmation &Critique
"Because we have been born of God, we have life and nature of God and in this sense WE ARE GOD"…Page 20

Further, we see the same warped mind working in many places

"By eating, digesting and assimilating God in Christ as our food we shall be constituted with God and in this way we become God"…. Page 20

We can see the same "eating fish will smell fish" style arguments Witness Lee literally had a dictatorial style of functioning in running LSM and Local churches. Initially every one respected him and listened. Latter when he started getting strange revelations, people either left or those who feared continued. His downfall started when He started thinking himself as some one who is specially called for the restoration of church. Witness Lee’s followers (they are trained to tell as coworker’s of Witness Lee. But reality is they were literally his slaves) claim that church recovery start with Witness lee. I happened to come in contact with those who worked with Witness Lee and faced very bad experiences. Only if you rub with them on wrong side you will come to know their so-called "Gods nature" in them. Problem with many who claim to be God in nature and life and so on is others are not able to see that in them. When they go to court and claim millions of dollars I wonder which nature is acting. Our Lord prayed for the forgiveness of those who crucified Him. It is true Paul appealed to Caesar so that he can take gospel to Rome. When he went to Rome, he never talked about the suffering and asked for damages in millions. Now tell me brothers and sisters whose nature is it that makes you to take the one who criticizes you to court. Many people went bankrupt and became pauper because of the "Divine nature "of LSM and company (If you want proof I can give you).

Bible says we are predestined to conform to the image of His son….Rom 8:29. To be like God does not mean that we will become God. 1 John 3:3 says "we will be like Him". Again, the very word "like" says that we are not going to become God. Read the above verse carefully, it says "we will be like Him". When he appears, "It actually refers to the transformation that take place when Jesus appears, and not becoming God.

Elohim is a name of God himself. It is used in Bible about 2406 times referring to God directly. It also has other meaning when used in plural sense. The word Elohim is used positively to refer to judges or rulers of nation (Exodus 21:5-6, 22:8-9, Psalm 8:5).

Elohim is used in negatively to refer to idols (gods) like in Gen. 31:30,32; Gen35:2,4, Exodus 2:12, 20:23. Referring to these verses and claiming to become God is dangerous and out of context.

2. OVERCOMERS WILL BECOME PART OF TEMPLE WHICH IS GOD HIMSELF

LSM trained people made ordinary believers in local churches affiliated to LSM believe that they are the overcomers and they will be part of God Himself. If you ask them about this they will say that no church is affiliated to LSM. But the fact is LSM and Local churches owing allegiance to it is a very big organization. Elders of the church are many times appointed from a central command. I have with me details of resignation letters sent by once ordained elders of local church. Look at their argument to prove they are part of temple. Consider the following quote from the Affirmation and critique,

"The overcomers will be pillars in the temple of God. Rev 3:12 He who overcomes, him I will make a pillar in the temple of My God Rev 3:12. We should understand this in the light of Rev 21:22..I saw no temple in it for the Lord God the almighty and the lamp are its temple. The temple of my God is the Lord God the almighty and the Lamp. And the overcomers are made the pillars in this temple and thus become part of the temple, which is God himself, For overcomers to be the pillars in the temple means that they will be pillars in God. This involves being mingled with God, constituted with God and built into God."

Again, I will tell you brothers and sisters this argument is same as "you become what you eat" type. Please read Rev 3:12 completely. Him who overcomes
1. I will make a pillar in the temple of my God
2. I will write on him the name of my God, the name of the City of my God, The New Jerusalem.
3. I will also write on him my new name
Rev 22:4 says, "They will see his face and his name will be on their foreheads"

What these people were doing there in New Jerusalem? Praise God, they were serving Him. Overcomers privilege is to serve him and reign forever. The throne of God and of the lamp is in the city (Rev 22:3). There was no need of a temple because we see God and the lamb enthroned directly. It is not that those who had names written on their forehead became God .But they were his servants ,serving Him forever. Beware those who claim they are God is indirectly telling they will not serve Him. They only want to rule with Him. Satan wants to lift his throne above that of God’s. Eve want to become like God. Now we have some telling they are God. We must remember that we live in such a time, Satan want to deceive as many elect as possible .Be watchful and prayfull so that you will not fall into such doctrines.

If we do not go by eating fish will result in smelling fish type argument and if we prayfully look at scriptures we find that pillars refer only to important positions which overcommers are going to get in His kingdom. Peter, James, and John were considered to be Pillars. That only meant that they were leaders in church and nothing beyond that. They were also men with all weakness. Overcommers will be rewarded with great positions in eternal kingdom. Remember the mother of two disciples came with a request ?She want one of her son to be on the left and other on the right side in His kingdom. What was the answer given by Jesus?

"These places belong to those whom they have been prepared by my Father" Mat 20:23

Again each person will be rewarded according to their deeds (1Cor 3:8, Mat 16:27}.So becoming pillars does not refer to becoming God but it refer better positions overcommers are going to get .If you are going to think like Witness Lee and Ron kangas we may conclude like this "Pillars make the building stand without collapsing So God(Temple) is sustained by Pillars (overcommers of Witness Lees order).So God depend on Overcommers. Thus overcommers are greater than God (you can add here some of the words like in nature, in appearance, in life etc to fool some weak minds)"
Dear brothers and sisters if you are in the trap of such warped mind people, then set free. Only by sincere prayers, you can do it. We need to be very careful about new revelations that our many elders are getting.

Test every thing and hold on to the good 1 Thes 5:21

Let me quote some other statements made by Witness Lee.
"It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications. According to my truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there they may contain some biblical doctrines, but any point of life or light has been adopted from the publications of LSM.There is nearly no item of life or light that has not been covered by our publications. Based upon this fact, what is the need for these brothers to put out there publications? Because all the publications are mine, it is hard for me to speak such a word. But I am forced to tell the truth .By putting out your own publication, you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish. Where is the food, the life supply, and the real enlightenment in the other publications among us? Be assured that there is definitely at least one major revelation in every LSM publication" Lee Book 8,163

Read the above passage of Witness Lee and judge for yourself the attitude of Witness Lee .I would like to draw your attention to two statements
. Firstly

"There is no item of life or light that has not been covered by our publications (read LSM). Based upon this fact what is the need for these brothers to put out their publications"

Now can you understand why the Email messages which Trivandrum local church was sending to those who are far away is stopped? For many years, I was receiving Emails from the Trivandrum local church. As soon as Witness Lee disciples took over, it stopped coming. I wonder how easily they convinced the elders to stop sending the Emails. In the last Email I received, it was written to receive Emails from Witness Lee group (emanna). Witness Lee assures that all about truth is covered in his publications. Look at what scripture says

"The man who thinks he knows something
does not yet know as he ought to know" 1Cor8:2

The most wise and knowledgeable believer realizes that his knowledge is limited. He can never claim that nearly no item of life and light has been left untouched in his writings. Secondly, Witness Lee assures his disciples that there will be a ‘major revelation’ in every LSM publications. No wonder this assurance made him write later Man become God. I am sure Satan use people who depend on their self-confidence for his advantage.
Witness Lee wrote many books, which contain many unscriptural things. He got everything as " major revelations".

Some of the "major revelations" are listed below

Organic Salvation,
Processed Triune God,
Triune God’s organism,
Man become God,
Consummate Triune God,
Consummate Divine Multiplication,
Organic constitution of the Processed Triune God,
Incarnation –Inclusion-Intensification.
With all humility let me tell you nowhere in Bible we see such words except in footnotes of recovery version Bible. Nowhere apostles used these words as basis for their teaching. Witness Lee selected number of verses from Bible and gave twisted interpretations to explain his revelations. It is almost 20 centuries since our Lords resurrection .He told us the gates of Hades will not overcome the church. We really need to suspect this new Gospel preached by Witness Lees disciples. It is a different gospel, different Jesus, and a different spirit. (2 Cor 11:4)

Do not put up with this.
Different Gospel----------------------Organic salvation
Different Jesus ------------------------Processed Triune God
Different Spirit------------------------Incarnation –Inclusion-Intensification-Organic constitution of triune God, Mingling and blending spirit

Beware of those who preach this Gospel. Beware of those who sympathies with this gospel. Let us rise above our personal relationship and look unto our dear Lord. He is all-sufficient for us.

3. TREE IS KNOWN BY ITS FRUIT
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing’s but inwardly they are ferocious wolfs .By their fruits you will recognize them. (Mat 7:15,16)

Our lord taught us the sure way to recognize a prophet is by their fruits they produce.

Right from1977 anyone who criticized Witness Lees major revelations based ministry was subjected to harassment and legal attacks. Those who are within the local churches who questioned were branded as lepers. They filed cases against authors and publishers of books criticizing them. Strange part is they claim millions of dollars as compensation.

Some of them are given below
Witness Lee vs. Neil.T.Duddy of SCP (spiritual counterfeits project)
Claimed amount 15 million.
Local churches vs. Harvest publishers
Claimed amount 136 million. Out of this $20 million is for LSM and another $20 million is for a local church. Rest $96 million for 96 local churches,
$1 million each.

Many others were also subjected to harassment and legal attacks, which resulted in bankruptcy of authors and publishers .Now let us, look what bible say about such things
Kindly read 2 Tim2: 25 and 2 Tim4: 14. In 2 Tim 4: 14, Paul says

"Alexander the metal worker did me a great deal of harm The lord will repay him for what he has done .you too should be on your guard against him, because he strongly opposed our message."

Paul left it to The Lord to deal with Alexander the metal worker. This is Christ’s attitude. Christ is in Paul and Paul was also clothed with Christ. It is not by mingling and digesting and through organic union. By renewal of mind, our inward being is transformed into likeness of Christ. This inward transformation is reflected in our outward deeds. As long as a branch remains in the trunk of tree, it produces fruit. Paul left it to God to repay for what Alexander the metal worker did. Indeed Paul appealed to Caesar. When he went to Rome what he told the authorities .Did he asked compensation? Did he complain about the persecutions? Praise God! He proclaimed the gospel. Christ is within Paul and Paul is also clothed with Christ. Brothers and sisters you think for yourself the actions of elders of local church. I would like to share with you what happened at Thiruvalla recently. Elders of local church at Trivandrum went to attend the funeral service of a man of God who served the Lord in Quilon region. This man of God opposed Witness Lees teaching. While the service was going on these elders were busy trying to "recover" Quilon church members. What I heard from more than three witnesses is these Elders were rebuked for their conduct by a young believer openly. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of ignorance that is in them due to hardening of their hearts (Eph 4:18). Paul was referring to Gentiles who did not know God yet he was warning church of God that we must not live like this because many in Paul’s time lived like that. Today we have so many Lords "deputies" around us in this category who have hardened their hearts. I request you to read the book written by Sr. Jane Carole Anderson titled "The Thread of Gold: God’s Purpose, The cross and me" by Protus publications. Visit www.TheThreadofGold.com for further details .The above mentioned book contain the true story of sister who was persecuted for her personal Christian beliefs, She was an active member of local church for around 20 years. There are many more who left local church after many years of close association with them.


4. THE GREAT DECEPTION --UNITY THROUGH CONFORMITY ?
Witness Lee told, " If you believe, you have to admit that we should be one in teaching, practice, thinking, speaking, essence, appearance, expression. There is not a verse in the bible that even gives us a small hint that allows the churches to have different appearances (Lee book 7,39)

The above statement is not biblical. Bible never teaches all believers to be one in thinking, speaking and appearance. Paul strongly urged Appolos to go to Corinth but Appolos refused to go. Appolos wanted to go later. Paul talked about one mind (2 Cor 13:11).But this is in relation to pure and sincere devotion to Christ (2Cor 11:3) and not in appearance or expression or in thinking. Paul never condemned Appolos .He never called him divisive and not according to God’s economy, .He never called Appolos an enemy of God’s economy for not going to Corinth. What is expected from believers is not unity through conformity but it is unity without insisting on conformity. Some people like to raise their hands sing loudly and move while singing in church meetings. Some people may not express in similar manner. They may lift their hearts to the Lord and sing without showing many emotions. Insisting people to do the things (singing, reading from the books, manners, behavior) in particular way will not bring unity in the church. It only brings artificiality in the church. I remember the Passive look and tone some local church members have when they pour out what they have memorized from Witness Lees books. Witness Lee went one step ahead. He insisted on practicing a kind of unity by conformity .His concept of unity in the church is basically unity with Witness Lee (to his teachings, to his strange "revelations" and to the strange practices he followed .He termed church unity as "one accord". He emphasized on physical outward oneness rather than spiritual oneness .As we believers we are called to declare praises of him who called us out of darkness (1 peter 2:9). We need to live good lives among the pagans that though they accuses us of doing wrong they may see our good deeds and glorify God on the day he visit us (1Peter 2:12). Instead of having unity in spirit (same Holy Spirit in all believers), Witness Lee and his disciples propagate unity in physical sense. They want throughout the world all local churches to have same pattern of worship. For a particular Sunday meeting there is a particular portion of Witness Lee writings is to be meditated (no other bible portions or thinking is allowed all should have same pattern of fellowship. They insisting a small book in which thought for every Sunday for a particular year is there along with explanations by Witness Lee. It contains all doctrines of Witness Lee, the strange revelation given only to Witness lee etc .No one is allowed to think in a different way. If any one dare to think ,it become "opinions" and it is condemned. If he continues to do, so he becomes an opposer to Lords economy. They are branded as rebels and even lepers.

If God wants to speak to a particular church some thing specific for them to do, it is not possible because all believers are asked to meditate only on passages written by Witness Lee .If what God want to talk is different from it, then they are shutting their years from listening to God. Word of God is living and active. For our day-to-day life, it is our spiritual food. It strengthens us. Holy spirit guides us individually by giving proper words from bible .It helps us in taking decisions in our day to day life and move ahead in our spiritual journey. Holy Spirit gives us word from Bible in collective manner for all believers of a local church so that He can accomplish His plan and purpose in that place through the local church .As needs of each individual is different, the need of each local church is different. Each individual need Holy Spirits guidance through the scripture, that helps him to become an overcommer in areas where he is weak and facing difficulty and it helps him in taking decisions. I remember once a hefty man came to attack me. Physically he could lift me and throw .I stopped that person from copying in an examination for which I was an invigilator .He came towards me with full fury but immediately I heard a voice, "The one who is in you is greater than one who in the world"1John4:4. I looked into his eyes. From some where I got great inner strength .He could not lift his hands against me, he ran out .It was the same verse I have meditated few days back. In my personal life, I could listen to Holy Spirits guidance at every crossroad I came across. It is purely from reading the word of God from Bible and by meditating on it. We may start from a particular portion of Bible. I read one proverb every day and few Psalms .As I meditate, Holy Spirit lead me to many more passages in New Testament and Old Testament. It is a wonderful experience. Sometimes I may be in one difficulty or I may be in a situation were I need to take some important decisions. I pray initially for guidance and strength. While I pray, Lord lead me to some passages which I read further meditate .It is really amazing .It is like a chain .We are at one end and Lord will lead you to many verses and finally at the end you get solution to your problem. If I do not get clear answer, then my spirit will not be satisfied .So I prefer to wait, continue to pray and meditate and if necessary discuss with some other brothers and pray together .I am fully convinced that victorious Christian life is a life guided by the Spirit .One who have Spirit of God will feel like praying, reading the word of God and meditating on them. Holy Spirit will lead guide every sincere believer through the word of God and the word of God is the Spirit and life (John 6:63).

In the same manner, those who are possessed by WitnessLees spirit will reading only His books and meditate according to what interpretation is given in those books. They won’t even dare to think beyond what is written in these books .I think there is an evil spirit moving around very actively in WitnessLees name, (I do not mean it is the spirit of Witness Lee, who is no more now), which when possess a man will make him blind to every form of sound argument and make him slave to WitnessLees teaching. Jesus once rebuked an evil spirit (Mark 9:25). Jesus called the spirit "deaf and mute". I do not think that the evil spirit was deaf and mute. ( I may be wrong in this .I have not majored on characteristics of evil spirits).One thing is sure if any one is possed by this spirit he become deaf and mute.

Brothers and sisters, I want to alert you that, there is a spirit moving around in a very subtle and crafty manner to devour the children of God. It moves around in the form of angel of light. Remember Paul’s warning about such spirits. (2cor 11:14).Its unique characteristics is those possessed by it read Witness Lees books only and they ask others also to do so . They claim truth is only in these books and revelation is only in these books. They discover things hidden from saints from last nearly 20 centuries. They claim they are the only overcomer and they become God at last [Paul was an overcomer, because he had humility not to claim he was an overcomer, but that he sought after the prize of becoming an overcomer].

5. TEST EVERYTHING, HOLD ON TO THE GOOD

One elder of local church (of Witness Lee brand) asked me to "jump into their boat." I asked why only into your boat. He told Lord is coming soon, they will be taken up, and others will be left behind to suffer. The same elder told me that since the same spirit lives in all the overcommers throughout the world, there must be uniformity in what they meditate .So they choose writings of Witness Lee. Then I asked why only Witness Lee. The answer was "Every thing we require is already in these writings". In their training programs (2 Yrs, 1Yrs…. down to one month) these thoughts are sown into the minds of those who attend them. These so called "trained brothers" propagate these ideas to others. They have their own versions of hierarchical order (like pope, cardinal, bishop etc). Only difference is there are no outward signs like religious dress code and other visible signs. They have brothers, serious brothers, trained brothers, Lords deputies etc.

Brothers and sisters if you are already into such a trap, free yourself.
First step I recommend is a sincere prayer to God to show the true path, which you must take in your spiritual journey. Second step is to read the word of God without Witness Lee notes .If you can manage few versions of Bible (NIV, KJV, LivingBible etc) then compare the verses in various versions. Meditate on these verses and pray for Lords guidance. It is better to trust in the Lord rather than in the man. It is better to receive from God rather than from man. We are children of God; we have the great privilege to approach His throne of grace in times of need (Heb4: 16). He is our father .A good father will not have any problem in speaking to his children if the children come to Him with true burden .If at point in time God planned to recover the church through one or two individuals only then it would have been revealed in bible somewhere. Instead, we only find in scriptures warning that many will come in Jesus name and try to deceive us. After centuries of various deceiving techniques, did Satan changed his strategy by promising believers that every "overcommers" will become God. We need to look with some amount of doubt all those who claim as God’s only chosen vessel or those who claim as God’s only spokesman. We can be fooled .We may realize it only very late and by that time enough damage would have been done. Bereans were considered to be better than Thessalonians, because they checked from scriptures what Paul preached is correct or not (Act 17:11 )I suppose there were no foot notes in scriptures during those days. Later when Paul wrote to Thessalonians he asked them to TEST EVERYTHING . HOLD ON TO THE GOOD (1Thes5: 21). Have you tested the "new revelations" that Witness Lee got in the light of word of God or are you merely listening to some one just because you consider him to be a man of God and infallible?

6. TRINITY OR TRIUNE GOD?

Witness Lee told, " Today many Christians do not believe that Christ is not only the son but also the father and the spirit" (What a Heresy –1977)
"Likewise, the father the Son and the Spirit are not 3 Gods but, 3 stages of one God for us to possess and enjoy"

" In the heavens were man cannot see Him God is the Father; When he is expressed among men, he is the Son; and when he comes into men, he is the Spirit".(Witness Lee: concerning Triune God, Anaheim : stream publishers)

There are many such statements of Witness Lee that shows he is a Modalist (Who denies Trinity, an error that surfaced in third century Christian church). Problem with so called Witness Lees style local churches are they refer to modalism as "Trinity". Double talk of Witness Lee is clearly revealed in another statement made by him

" All three, the Father and The Son and The Spirit were present at the same time. I fully believe in the co inheritance and coexistence of the three of the Godhead" (Witness Lee –What a heresy)

Dear brothers and sisters, compare the above the above statement with the previous three statements. Can’t you find contradictions in Witness Lees statements? In one place, he says Father, Son, and Spirit are "three stages" of one God. In another place, he says they coexisted. Deceptive thinking and preaching are the hallmarks of a hardhearted believer. Witness Lee twisted everything to project his own imaginations as revalations. His spiritually blind followers who valued him more than Lord Jesus propagated these imaginations as revelations in local churches .All local churches have at least one agent of Witness Lee, silently watching and observing what is going on. He would have under gone a full time training program on Witness Lees teaching which contain "complete revelation of God’s plan that is given only to Witness Lee". According to Witness Lee, "there is only one unique ministry that is justified, promoted, uplifted and even glorified in the New Testament."(Lee Book 3-43). His followers taught that this unique ministry is that of Witness Lee and now this ministry is continued through LSM.

In one of books Witness Lee says " My point is this, since the revelation is here (with Witness Lee), the teaching is here (with Witness Lee) the leadership must be here.(Lee –Book 127-128). Some of his statements are funny and in a sense, such "revalation"no other believer in last 20 centuries got. According to Witness Lee when a man’s wife talks about any matter other than scripture then he goes to a state were, he is "halted from living of Christ ". When a man discuss about some family matter or household matter, during that time he is not "living Christ" and hence not trustworthy and a sinful man. Look what Witness Lee taught his disciples during a "training Program"

"After praying I was living in my spirit, but this did not last long after 5 minutes sister Lee asked me, yesterday you gave some money to so and so. Why did you not discuss with me first? Her questioning halted my living of Christ. Immediately I turned to my mind asking, "what is this?"This was not to live Christ. I spent the next 15 mts telling her all the reasons, and in those 15 mts, I did not live Christ. What did I live? Even I myself do not know .I did not sin or loose my temper, but neither was I in my spirit living Christ. This would go on until 2 or 3 ‘O’ clock in the afternoon; then I sensed something was wrong. I turned to the Lord to confess," Lord, I did not lead Christ through out the day, Allthough I did not do anything wrong, I have been living in myself. Lord, I am not trustworthy. Lord, forgive my sin. Lord, remind me that I am one spirit with you, and you are one spirit with me .I do not want to live outside of this spirit. I want to live only in this spirit". After my confession, I felt much better within and sensed the Lords sweetness, and I was again in spirit living Christ. However, at this moment, the phone rang and I picked up the receiver. That one phone call got me out of my spirit again. Also there were times when the telephone did not ring and I was just working and not committing any wrong, yet I still was not living Christ (Lee, Living, 12-13)"

How pitiful brothers and sisters if one phone call can take you out of spirit and if some one talk to you then you go out of spirit. In every thought, word and action we are supposed to be guided by our renewed mind and spirit. When a phone call comes, a believer will talk according to the wisdom and understanding given by the spirit. It is not you go out of spirit. I wonder what Witness lee would have talked to the caller during the moment when "he was not living Christ" and when "he was out of spirit". I wonder whether most of Witness Lees "revelations" are from such weak moments when he was out of spirit. If a phone call can take you out of spirit and you have to ask forgiveness (even though you have not sinned), I doubt the genuinety of the "mingling" and "processing" that takes place in spirit which Witness lee was talking although.

7. "O LORD JESUS" CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD

Witness lee taught we must call on the name of the Lord to enjoy the unsearchable riches of Christ .If you attend LSM controlled church meetings you will see before anyone speak he will be calling repeatedly "O Lord Jesus" as if they are in great torment. There is a teaching behind this behavior. Witness lee told

"To enjoy the riches of Christ we must call on the name of the Lord Jesus (Rom 10:12). If we want to be nourished, we can call "O lord Jesus!". When we are at home and also when we are at work, we can call on the Lords name. When we call, we touch the Spirit (1 Cor 12: 3). Many of us pray often but we do not get the nourishment from our praying. This should not be so .We are not praying to an idol, we pray to the living God. He is the very God who is in our spirit. When we speak to him, he responds in our spirit. When we exercise our spirit, we realize Him within our spirit. If we merely exercise our mind and pray from our mouth, the Triune God within us has no way. He is not in our mind, but in our spirit. We must exercise our spirit (1 Tim 4:7).In this way we can experience this true, real, and living God who is right now in our spirit . In our regenerated spirit dwells the Triune God as the life giving spirit." The basic Revelation –P 51)

According to Witness Lee by calling on the name of Lord, we touch the Spirit. The reference given 1Cor 12: 3 is totally out of context.1 Cor 12:3 says
"Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed" and no one can say, "Jesus is the Lord" except by the Holy Spirit."

According to Witness lee, by shouting, many times O lord Jesus we touch the Spirit. The above verse does not say you can touch the Holy Spirit by simply crying out "O Lord Jesus". Matt 7: 21 says "Not every one who says to me ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in heaven"

In 1Tim 4: 7 says "Train yourself to be Godly" According to Witness Lee, training to be Godly refers to exercising in spirit .By saying "O Lord Jesus" we are exercising our spirit. Look at what Paul say in 1Cor9: 24-27
"Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize Run in such a way as to get the price. Every one who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last: but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. There for I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the price."
From above verses, we can conclude training for Paul means beating his body and make it his slave. It refers to a disciplined spiritual life that no longer follows the desires of the body (which is weak Matt 26:41) but that is controlled by the renewed mind. It refers to a life that is dedicated to Lords service .We too need to be trained to be Godly, but not by always saying "O Lord Jesus" repeatedly but by being led by the Spirit.(Gal 5:16, 5:25) For God, it is not spirit of man alone that is important. He is concerned about his soul as well as body. Hence, we too need to consider not only the spirit but also our body and soul. We need to keep our body, spirit, and soul holy. It is only possible by Gods grace. 1Thes 5:23 says

"May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"

Through sincere prayers, reading and meditating word of God and putting them into practice what Lord is asking us to do, we train our self to be Godly. Read carefully 2Tim 3 :14-17. Here also Paul talks about training in righteousness, but not by repeatedly screaming "O Lord Jesus". But by
Continuing in what he has learned and convinced of from scriptures
Similarly Witness Lee says, to enjoy the riches of Christ we must call on the name of the Lord Jesus .The reference given is Romans 10:12, which is also out of context. Romans 10: 12 says
" For there is no difference between Jew and gentile – The Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him"

The above verse says all who call on him (Jesus) will be blessed richly. What is this rich blessing, which Paul is talking about? As a continuation of above verse, Paul makes it clear --for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved". Salvation for all who call on the name of lord Jesus is the rich blessing that Paul mentions .Are people groaning O lord Jesus before speaking doing it for being saved? They are not touching the spirit but they are trying to whip up collective emotions of listeners. Do not be deceived by repeatedly calling unto God without mentioning the reason for calling. It is a sure sign that they do not have the confidence that the lord will listen to them if they call once only. Stephen called on to the Lord but also specified what for he called, " Lord Jesus receive my spirit" "Lord, do not hold this sin against them" (acts 7:59). We do not find any scriptural evidence for saying, "O lord Jesus" before anyone speaking. Insisting on calling repeatedly looks more like a pagan practice of chanting the name of gods to evoke blessings .I doubt whether Chinese pagan practices have influenced Witness Lees teachings. There is also a pagan teaching that man is God. We do not see in scriptures Paul calling out "O Lord Jesus" every time before he started speaking. We do not find this practice and teaching any were in bible. Wherever men of God called on to Him, they also mentioned the reason for calling. We may think what is wrong in saying frequently "O Lord Jesus". By accepting a practice, which has no scriptural base, we are giving room for Satan to work in our lives. Instead of simply shouting "O Lord Jesus" repeatedly and there by babbling like some Pagans let us call on to the name of Lord and tell him why we called him. He surely will listen to us. Our nourishment should come from word of God. By reading and meditating word of God we get nourished and not by shouting " O Lord Jesus". If meditating word of God nourishes us we produce its fruit in season (Psalm 1:2,3)


8. LOCAL CHURCH AND LOCALCHURCH (WITNESS LEE BRAND)
There are two types of local churches. They are Local church and local church (Witness Lee Brand). When one of the brother from LSM who underwent 2 years training in Taiwan told me local church concept is a new revelation that Watchman Nee and Witness Lee got from God, I was surprised .I asked them to explain further. He told me that

"Lord’s recovery started from Watchmen Nee and continued through Witness Lee and now it is continuing through LSM.The instrument for Lord’s recovery is local church which came as a revelation to WatchmanNee and Witness Lee. Local church members are the overcommers and they represent Philadelphian churches mentioned in Revelation chapter 3."

I was astonished because since I came to the Lord in 1989,after reading The Bible, I got the idea that best way for the believers to gather together is as a local church. The brother that baptized me, advised to gather as local church. For us local church is gathering of believers in an area. We call the church in a particular locality by the name of that locality. Therefore, after being baptized I was part of Shoranur church .I was living in Shoranur town in Palgat district at that time. Later we moved to Bangalore and we gathered with believers in Bangalore. None of these Local churches had any other branches .As we belonged to Trivandrum we were part of Trivandrum Church, whenever we were in Trivandrum. These Local churches were in existence since 1992.During these days we never heard about Watchman Nee or about Witness Lee. There were hundreds of local churches were believers in a particular locality gathered together and were known by the name of that locality through out Kerala, Karnataka and Tamilnadu states. These local churches known after the name of that locality were based on Paul’s letters, which were addressed to churches known by the name of the locality. Church elders thought churches must be known by the name of the locality rather than by the name of a denomination or organization. This was not based on revelation or discovery by WatchmanNee or Witness Lee. Some Local churches I know personally are Trivadrum church, Quilon church, Bangalore church. Local churches cooperated among themselves when there were marriage service or funeral service or some special occasions. Occationally they had common meetings so that members could come to know each other and had fellowship together. This was happening in hundreds of places in south India (and may also be in North India). Most of these local churches have the following things common

1 Church known by the name of the locality

2 Those who received Lord Jesus, as savior became the members. Birth in Christian family was not accepted as a ground for membership

3 They insisted on talking baptism after receiving the Lord

4 They (most of them) never celebrated festivals like Christmas, Easter etc as denominational churches do
Galatians 2:4 says, " This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves"

Here Paul, talks about circumcision group who insisted on implementing Jewish practices in church and thereby robe believers of their freedom they have in Christ Jesus.

The same thing happened in Local churches .LSM people who did not get many followers in India suddenly changed tactics. They slowly visited elders of local churches. Some weak elders who are swayed away by worldly things (human relationship, desire to be identified with a larger sect, etc) fell into the trap of LSM agents. They had separate bible studies with them were they are taught about the "revelations" which Witness Lee got and convinced them that local church concept of Witness Lee is the ultimate desire of the Lord. These weak elders found so many similarities with Witness Lees concept. Naming the church after the name of locality, baptism after receiving the Lord, avoiding all celebrations like Christmas and Easter etc are some of the things they found common.

Thus, these elders jumped to the conclusion that they found someone similar to them. They thought now onwards they would have access to have fellowship with churches throughout the world. They were convinced that there are more than 3000 churches throughout the world that are fellowshipping with LSM. An elder of Trivandrum church told me

"Now onwards when people from Trivandrum church go any were in the world, they will get fellowship. We found like-minded church. They do not celebrate festivals just like us. They do not consider church as an organization just like us. They name the church just like us and they too will not celiberate festivals."
Unfortunately, these elders saw only some outward similarities. They failed to see the inner spiritual matters that are more important. Elders convinced the "normal believers" that they discovered the "True Church". One elder told me "We were in inside egg .now we have come out and see the things more clearly". What I understand is many truly local churches have become local church (Witness Lee brand). One elder who claimed to be in the local church (Witness Lee brand) told me proudly that they are going to "raise" up more than 300 churches in India. On enquiry I came to know, most of these churches were already in existence since many years. One very prominent Elder was on a "trip" from one end of Kerala state to the other end meeting the elders of local churches to convince them to accept the newfound philosophy.
Once elders are taken into confidence, they teach from selected verses of 1Timothy and 2 Timothy warning them not to listen or join with those who are not in one accord. Deep within if you carefully watch, for them one accord is one with Witness Lee and his Teaching and not Holy Spirit and teachings of Jesus.

One church that has not fallen into the hands of LSM was Quilon church. People from LSM tried to influence the elder of the Quilon church, but he refused to accept them. This elder was branded as a fallen brother. I was present in the church when he was called as fallen brother by one of the Trivandrum church elder (at a meeting attended by nearly 400 people.) He quoted from Heb 6:4-6 to condemn the Quilon church elder who have not fallen in line with LSM. I happened to meet the elder of the Quilon church number of times and also had telephonic conversation with him number of times. He was suffering from lung cancer. Even during the last days of his earthly life, he grieved much about the condition of local churches in Trivandrum and adjoining areas. He asked me to pray, go, meet the elders of churches, and tell them about the dangers of fellowshipping with LSM.I tried to contact the elders .One elder told me "what can I do alone?" Another one told me "you talk with others (other elders), they wont listen to me" Another prominent elder bombarded with the new found doctrines and was not ready to listen to what I have to say. Some of the Elders listened silently as if they don’t have the ability to take decisions.

Now after many prayers, I felt I must write to the brothers and sisters personally. The desire to see the churches delivered from the clutches of LSM and their agents made me write this letter to you. I wish once again church will regain its independent character and will move ahead fulfilling Lords plan and purpose .It all depends on the sincerity of brothers and sisters in church. If your local church is under LSM, you watch for yourself there will be at least one LSM-trained person in your church who will monitor all activities of elders and church members. They generally give the concluding main message. Their message will be based on Witness Lee books only. What a pity after running a good race so far, the name of Witness Lee almost replaced Lord Jesus himself. I remember when I was talking to one of the Elder, the LSM agent was constantly watching our discussion and the elder was often looking towards him before answering to my questions. I felt the LSM person spiritually held the elder captive. This agent always accompanies the elder.
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free (Gal 5:1)

I have one pure and sincere intension in writing you this letter. My intension is not to hurt anyone or degrade any one. I wish Satan would not deceive you. From the teaching regarding unity in appearance, thinking etc to becoming holy God, there is a continuous degradation in spiritual standards. What I wish as a fellow believer is , you please do not conform to the standards of LSM..As we are individually accountable to God please follow the following steps
1. Pray earnestly for guidance regarding your spiritual life .Ask Lord which way you should take.

2. Read Bible without footnotes and meditate on the verses.

3. Share with others what the Lord is speaking to you

4. In church, do not read Witness Lees books or meditate on his writings. Have the courage to stand up in church and tell what the lord is speaking to you through bible.

5. Encourage fellow believers to look unto God. Never try to equate in any way with God .If anyone insist on proclaiming, "we are God" or "we become God" or anything similar, do not join with them. Openly proclaim it is not scriptural.

6. Do not say amen to every statement made by others and share their guilt. Evaluate what others are saying like Bereans before agreeing on it. Satan’s strategy is to make you immediately say amen, so that with mouth you proclaim you approve the unscriptural things what others said.

7. Ask lord for guidance regarding your journey ahead. Pray continually.

We are called to worship God with reverence and awe. Our God is a consuming fire (Heb 12: 28).
We have this confidence " Therefore he (Jesus) is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them" Heb7: 25
Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. Heb2: 18

May our dear Lord bless you. If you need further authentic information regarding above-mentioned items, you please contact

JohnDevaKumar
E-22, ITI PUSA CAMPUS
New Delhi 110012
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:46 AM   #6
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In China they took over congregations. India also. You should read some of the testimonies from India. Contact is made, an LC plant comes in, starts to assert influence upon some of the leading ones there. Eventually a decision is made to "go the LC way" and those who rightly smell a rat are ejected. If I can find some links I will post them.
During the GLA quarantines, operatives from LSM/DCP taught the local dissidents how to disrupt church meetings and file lawsuits to seize meeting halls and financial assets.
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:04 PM   #7
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In China they took over congregations. India also. You should read some of the testimonies from India. Contact is made, an LC plant comes in, starts to assert influence upon some of the leading ones there. Eventually a decision is made to "go the LC way" and those who rightly smell a rat are ejected. If I can find some links I will post them.
I know there are posts within this forum somewhere that touched upon hijacking churches to take the fellowship of Witness Lee's ministry. Detroit and Fort Lauderdale are a few places specifically mentioned. I had even heard of LC members going to Melodyland (Orange County, Ca) during the 1970's to proselytize.
I think the general point of view is a believer requires less labor than a non-believer.
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:43 PM   #8
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I know there are posts within this forum somewhere that touched upon hijacking churches to take the fellowship of Witness Lee's ministry. Detroit and Fort Lauderdale are a few places specifically mentioned. I had even heard of LC members going to Melodyland (Orange County, Ca) during the 1970's to proselytize.
I think the general point of view is a believer requires less labor than a non-believer.
Hi all,
I want you all to know that this practice is not exclusive to the LC/LSM. I've experienced and seen this practice in several denominations, especially when 'famous' guest speakers (usually TV evangelists) show up.

I recall a pastor who had a guest speaker that filled up the 'sanctuary'. At the end of the service, he stood up to give the blessing on condition!
The condition was 'IF YOU GIVE YOUR TITHES TO ANOTHER CHURCH, THIS BLESSING IS NOT FOR YOU. GO TO YOUR CHURCH AND GET YOUR BLESSING." no joke!

While there are good churches out there. remember most of them are (religious) business organizations with 501 3c tax deduction perks.

Most of them just like the LSM, sell their own products mostly in cds or dvds, books, music cds, oils, shawls, bibles with the pastor's stamp on it. Jack Van Impe, Drake's bible, John Hagee's prophesy bible are just a few names that have their names on the bible.

I have more first account experiences that turned my stomach.

Best to pray to be led to a good bible study that is not being promoted by a 'church', that will not try to sway you to attend 'their church'. Study the Word of God. Seek understanding and enlightenment from the Spirit of the LORD. Count your blessings and share your experience how God heard and answered you with someone that they too may be encouraged.

Blessings and Shalom in Christ Jesus.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:03 PM   #9
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I think that it is important to preach the gospel to believers as well. Denominations are filled with unbelievers who need to hear the gospel. Just as the disciples and Christ preached in the religious centres of the day. I think many pastors will make the gospel message part of their sermon as well. A number of great revivalists of old made it their ministry to preach to the 'saved' in churches.

The idea of sheep stealing is wrong because firstly it makes no sense the sheep are not ours or belong to a church but to Christ.

Many pastors think they congregation is their sheep but they are wrong..they belong to Christ. It is these pastors who have stolen the sheep from Christ if they think the sheep belong to them.

Many Christians who you say we 'steal' are actually not happy with their church and we offer something better. Some have attended church for many years but do not know the gospel or the bible. This is a poor reflection on these churches not us who try to help them.
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:38 PM   #10
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I think that it is important to preach the gospel to believers as well. Denominations are filled with unbelievers who need to hear the gospel. Just as the disciples and Christ preached in the religious centres of the day. I think many pastors will make the gospel message part of their sermon as well. A number of great revivalists of old made it their ministry to preach to the 'saved' in churches.
...
Many Christians who you say we 'steal' are actually not happy with their church and we offer something better. Some have attended church for many years but do not know the gospel or the bible. This is a poor reflection on these churches not us who try to help them.
You make a big generalization about the state of those in denominations, especially when you falsely state that there are many who are unsaved. To assume that the LCM meets some need not being met in such groups is presumptuous to say the least. That type of prideful mindset is exactly what makes the LCM so toxic. I know of LCers who have testified about “leaving denominations,” those are the types who saw the LCM as more desirable than what they had previously been a part of. Such people, however, by no means ever represented a majority of those in denominations, and ironically enough, plenty of such people have “moved on” from the LCM as well.

When you look at the all the various criticism the LC directs at other Christian groups, it is always related to variances in practice. They then try to argue that because no other groups practice things like their doctrine of localism or "calling on the Lord", that the condition of other groups is subpar. Variances in what groups chose to practice isn't indicative of condition at all. It's simply assumes that one type of practice is better than another. For example, in some denominations, there might be places that still use an organ for music. LCers would characterize this as too 'religious'. At the same time they would point at the more contemporary churches and characterize their worship bands as being too 'worldly' (a double standard indeed). Only the LC standard of music is recognized as 'genuine'. Obviously, such things are all a matter of preference, and an attempt to use such practices to make implications at state/condition is just being nitpicky.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:19 PM   #11
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I recall a pastor who had a guest speaker that filled up the 'sanctuary'. At the end of the service, he stood up to give the blessing on condition!

The condition was 'IF YOU GIVE YOUR TITHES TO ANOTHER CHURCH, THIS BLESSING IS NOT FOR YOU. GO TO YOUR CHURCH AND GET YOUR BLESSING." no joke!
I've been to a lot of places over the years and I have never heard anything like that. Or gotten the impression that they were in it to be important in their own little fish bowl. I have seen people who were committed to serving others.

And just because the organizations sign-up as §501(c)(3) doesn't make what they do suspicious or worldly. It simply provides a way to keep the government from treating contributions to the organization as "income" which would then be taxed if it exceeded its expenses for the year. (There are a few things that still get taxed, like if they also have a coffee shop and it turns a profit.) And the designation also allows those who contribute to deduct the contribution on their tax return. Neither fact makes a church unspiritual.

You mention a couple of writers or others who put things out there that advertise themselves. Shame on them. That is not the norm. And I'm sure you know that.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:28 PM   #12
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I think that it is important to preach the gospel to believers as well. Denominations are filled with unbelievers who need to hear the gospel.
While I think you are intending to make a sideways stab at denominations as if they are the only assemblies that have unbelievers among them, I would hope that you do as well. Otherwise there will not be much growth outside of proselytizing Christians from other groups.

But the real point is that in one sentence you say to to preach to the believers. Then in the next sentence state that the purpose is to preach to the unbelievers.

Maybe, rather than always thinking there is a "dig" to get in at the expense of other Christians, you just state that it is always good to be preaching the gospel because you never know when there may be unbelievers. Even scattered among the believers in any assembly.

And your other hollow jab is at denominations. Not a very wise thing to be doing when you are also part of a denomination. I realize that you want to redefine denomination so that it excludes you. But the rest of us have never had that definition, so you are just making a mockery of yourself. This whole "stab at the 99 and declare that the 1 is the only true one" thing is really wearing thin. Your rhetoric should never escape the lips of someone who claims to stand for the unity of the body of Christ. It is so forcefully divisive that it denies your very claim.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:58 PM   #13
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Maybe, rather than always thinking there is a "dig" to get in at the expense of other Christians, you just state that it is always good to be preaching the gospel because you never know when there may be unbelievers. Even scattered among the believers in any assembly.
I think I said that here:

"I think many pastors will make the gospel message part of their sermon as well."

My post was in reference to denominations that do not preach the gospel and are filled with the unsaved.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:01 PM   #14
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You make a big generalization about the state of those in denominations, especially when you falsely state that there are many who are unsaved. To assume that the LCM meets some need not being met in such groups is presumptuous to say the least. That type of prideful mindset is exactly what makes the LCM so toxic. I know of LCers who have testified about “leaving denominations,” those are the types who saw the LCM as more desirable than what they had previously been a part of. Such people, however, by no means ever represented a majority of those in denominations, and ironically enough, plenty of such people have “moved on” from the LCM as well.

When you look at the all the various criticism the LC directs at other Christian groups, it is always related to variances in practice. They then try to argue that because no other groups practice things like their doctrine of localism or "calling on the Lord", that the condition of other groups is subpar. Variances in what groups chose to practice isn't indicative of condition at all. It's simply assumes that one type of practice is better than another. For example, in some denominations, there might be places that still use an organ for music. LCers would characterize this as too 'religious'. At the same time they would point at the more contemporary churches and characterize their worship bands as being too 'worldly' (a double standard indeed). Only the LC standard of music is recognized as 'genuine'. Obviously, such things are all a matter of preference, and an attempt to use such practices to make implications at state/condition is just being nitpicky.

I think the experience of most who join the LSM from denominations is related somehow to the lack of sound bible teaching, or the lack of all members functioning, or just general dissatisfaction with the denomination.

I think this explains a high number coming from traditional mainline denominations, Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, and particularly those that reject biblical values and adopt pro-gay marriage stance etc.

I do not expect many coming from denominations which teach the bible and value members participating - baptist, presbyterian etc.

A number are non-denom Christians who go from house fellowship to house fellowship but want something more structured.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:16 PM   #15
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My post was in reference to denominations that do not preach the gospel and are filled with the unsaved.
You think that the gospel is only preached within churches and that it is only in the evangelical way.

And you think that churches that do preach that way don't have many unsaved among them.

Both are incorrect ways of thinking.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:56 PM   #16
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You think that the gospel is only preached within churches and that it is only in the evangelical way.

And you think that churches that do preach that way don't have many unsaved among them.

Both are incorrect ways of thinking.
Are you trying to say that in a Catholic church for example, one may hear or experience the gospel by not preaching it? Just an example.

Some people do think that being in a holy place such as a cathedral gives them a dose of spirituality and they feel better about themselves. Some people may be even converted to Christianity just by experiencing the mass, and no gospel preaching necessary.
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Old 06-12-2017, 06:24 PM   #17
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I think the experience of most who join the LSM from denominations is related somehow to the lack of sound bible teaching, or the lack of all members functioning, or just general dissatisfaction with the denomination.
Evangelical, how does one "join the LSM"? What does that mean?
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Old 06-12-2017, 06:33 PM   #18
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Thanks for everyone's insight. I kind of went the other way from the LC and I have worshipped with many Christians from Baptists in Kazakhstan to Coptic Christians from Egypt. Yes some may have doctrinal differences, (Like Catholics making celibacy required of the clergy. This is OPTIONAL per the apostle Paul). As long as the difference isn't against the word of God I use:
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

You don't want to injure the wheat by pulling out the tares. The Lord will do it in his time. You can tell if someone loves the Lord folks!
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:09 PM   #19
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Are you trying to say that in a Catholic church for example, one may hear or experience the gospel by not preaching it? Just an example.
Yes!

Our Savior is nearly not so small-hearted as Evangelical assumes.

I have a close friend who was solidly saved as a young teen while receiving communion in the Catholic church. Today is one of the most fruitful brothers I know.

It's so sad to continually read your posts and witness how little faith you actually have, yet claim to have so much in your "recovery."
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:40 PM   #20
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Yes!

Our Savior is nearly not so small-hearted as Evangelical assumes.

I have a close friend who was solidly saved as a young teen while receiving communion in the Catholic church. Today is one of the most fruitful brothers I know.

It's so sad to continually read your posts and witness how little faith you actually have, yet claim to have so much in your "recovery."
Well folks here is Ohio's method of evangelism - take Catholic mass and you will be saved! I also know of a Catholic who claims Mary visited her and healed her, maybe one of the dead saints too. Then we get stories of healings and salvations by touching statues with streams of fake blood too.
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:29 PM   #21
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Well folks here is Ohio's method of evangelism - take Catholic mass and you will be saved! I also know of a Catholic who claims Mary visited her and healed her, maybe one of the dead saints too. Then we get stories of healings and salvations by touching statues with streams of fake blood too.
You are starting to sound pretty pathetic.

The angels were rejoicing in the heavens, and one bitter cynic here can only find fault.

Evangelly: "EXCUSE ME GOD, HOW DARE YOU SAVE THAT YOUNG MAN IN A CATHOLIC CHURCH? HAVEN'T YOU HEARD ALL THOSE CRAZY STORIES ABOUT MARY? HUH? DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT I HEARD FROM BROTHER LEE?"

Can't you at least rejoice that our Savior can use untold places and opportunities to find the lost?

Does everything with you have to be the latest God-ordained "way" mandated by the Blended MOTA in Anaheim?
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:54 PM   #22
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Evangelly: "EXCUSE ME GOD, HOW DARE YOU SAVE THAT YOUNG MAN IN A CATHOLIC CHURCH? HAVEN'T YOU HEARD ALL THOSE CRAZY STORIES ABOUT MARY? HUH? DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT I HEARD FROM BROTHER LEE?"
This kind of "negotiation" with God is not uncommon at all. In a recent elders training, the leading brother mentioned how he was deeply touched by Lee's prayer in 1962 to prevent communism from entering the United States. Basically, the prayer from Lee was like, "This can't happen, Lord, even if you let it happen, I won't let it happen."

Never underestimate the power of the MOTA. Given such mindset, anything can have legitimate reason:

After John the Baptist’s announcement of Christ, the Lord went into the fold in order to bring the sheep out of the fold. Of course, He was not stealing the sheep. He went into Judaism in order that His sheep might hear His voice and come out of the fold. (John Life-Study)
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:04 AM   #23
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You are starting to sound pretty pathetic.

The angels were rejoicing in the heavens, and one bitter cynic here can only find fault.

Evangelly: "EXCUSE ME GOD, HOW DARE YOU SAVE THAT YOUNG MAN IN A CATHOLIC CHURCH? HAVEN'T YOU HEARD ALL THOSE CRAZY STORIES ABOUT MARY? HUH? DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT I HEARD FROM BROTHER LEE?"

Can't you at least rejoice that our Savior can use untold places and opportunities to find the lost?

Does everything with you have to be the latest God-ordained "way" mandated by the Blended MOTA in Anaheim?
Well forgive me for this cynic basing his view on the bible. I think this is a widely held view in Evangelical circles that taking mass does not save us - the gospel must be involved somehow. If this person you know, heard the gospel from the Priest, and then took mass, that seems plausible. But being saved by taking mass, sounds no different to being healed by touching a weeping statue. At the same time, the Catholic Church also leads many people away from a genuine faith relationship with Christ.

If we turn to the bible and consider:

- no biblical record of anyone being saved apart from preaching the gospel and some sort of repentance over sin.
- Paul relating salvation to hearing the gospel in Romans 10, and mentioning no other way like receiving communion etc.
- Jesus and the disciples teaching in the Jewish synagogues of the day, and not really expecting God to save people in other ways.
- the great commission states "preach the gospel", it does not say "give communion" or other methods. So, the normal, typical way of salvation should be gospel preaching.

This is all based upon your presumption that the person was genuinely saved, and last time I checked Catholics, like Orthodox, don't generally assume they are saved, and especially not after a one time mass. Also, their idea of salvation is related to joining the church and taking the mass rather than faith alone. From what I've been reading, I found that if a person believes what the Catholic Church officially teaches, he/she will not be saved.

Even if someone can be saved by taking the Catholic mass I don't think it means they don't need to hear the gospel. They should hear it just to be doubly sure they are genuinely saved.

John Piper
addresses the question of whether the hearing of the gospel is necessary for salvation in this book:
Jesus: The Only Way to God: Must You Hear the Gospel to Be Saved? by John Piper
And I think John Piper says yes, a person must hear the gospel to be saved.

But maybe he's wrong because Ohio knows someone who he thinks was saved by taking the mass.
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Old 06-13-2017, 06:10 AM   #24
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Unforunately, some Christians outside the LC I know refer to the LC as sheep-stealers. I have to agree. When I was in the LC I remember by a ratio of at least 2 to 1, invading other churches to show them the "New and Living Way" vs. preaching the gospel to unbelievers! I think this came out of the LC culture of being better than Christianity. It happened when I was in Philadelphia. We were invited to a church midstate, and we packed up a school bus, went there and showed them how to be Christians. Then in college in NYC, the students in the LC took over my campus Christian fellowship for a day, and steamrollered everyone. That was one of the starting stepping stones to my leaving the LC. Any other experiences from anyone?
In deference to our new friend, HBJ, let's get back to the issue at hand.
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:13 AM   #25
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Are you trying to say that in a Catholic church for example, one may hear or experience the gospel by not preaching it? Just an example.
No. What I am saying is that preaching the gospel is not solely through the means of evangelical sermons or street evangelists or Roman Road tracts (as typical examples). I have attended one RCC mass in my life and I heard the gospel there. (And, BTW, they were clear to state that the Eucharist, when celebrated, was not a new sacrifice of Christ. Jesus died once for all. Not what so many Evangelicals want us to think they believe and teach.)

The RCC preaches the gospel. Just not in the manner that the Baptists do it. I am not defending their Mary worship or veneration of Saints. But they still preach the gospel.

Since I presume you know nothing about the RCC except what you have been told, you probably should refrain from ignorant comments about them.
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:17 AM   #26
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Well folks here is Ohio's method of evangelism - take Catholic mass and you will be saved!
First, Ohio didn't endorse it. Second, you don't "take mass." You participate in the mass, a pattern of worship that walks through the gospel. That teaches of Christ, and then points to his death as the sacrifice for our sins. The only thing missing is the presumed need for an evangelical "sinner's prayer."

Are there some who participate in this year after year and never really believe? Surely. But the same can actually be said about the LRC as well. Your ways are not so severe that they scare all the unsaved away or convince them to believe.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:05 AM   #27
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First, Ohio didn't endorse it. Second, you don't "take mass."
"It's impossible to have an honest conversation with a dishonest person."
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:03 AM   #28
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Here is a very disturbing account of LC "church stealing" from John Deva Kumar in India.

Dear Brother,

Since last few years agents of LSM is very active in India. They have taken over more than 300 local church gatherings. There are many people from Taiwan who are propagating this cult. They visit the elders of local fellowships and tell them they are selling Watchman Nee's and Witness Lee's books. They make friendship with the elders families. They mingle easily as if they are like family members. Next step is to start a meeting in the home of the elder during evening and slowly indoctrinate them. They will tell the song books they are using are not scriptural and ask them to remove it and then they will ask them to replace all the bibles with recovery version bible since it is the only bible that is without errors. Next they will ask them to meditate only the writings of Witness Lee since it contain all what we want. Then they will ask every one in the meeting to say amen to every thing they say. All the LSM people will utter the same thing. They slowly teach the elder what they say is something special and superior to other teachings. They will claim they are the only recovered people and recovery of Church is only through Witness Lee and Watchman Nee.

The poor elder who hear these things start teaching these things in their church. Now LSM people will give the idea about having Lords day(Sunday) meeting together. Then they appear in the Church. They come in such a manner they have been send by Lord to recover Churches in the last days. Those who are not having discerning spirit will fall. Those few who raise questions are branded as enemies of Lords recovery and isolated to that extend they will leave the fellowship. Initially they never teach "man become god" or about "processed triune god". But soon one by one such teachings are introduced and any alternate thinking is branded as from evil spirit. There were 400 people in our church at Trivandrum, Kerala state, India. Now the church is under the control of LSM.

Now we few who left are trying to RECOVER the church for Lord. I will send a copy of the letter which I send to the believers in various churches in India taken over by LSM. This is my true experience.

May Lord bless your ministry. I request you to expose this cult who are really wolfs in sheeps cloths. Kindly look into the website "thethreadofgold.com". You can find the experience of a sister who was persecuted for her beliefs by LSM cult.

With love in Christ

John Deva Kumar
Here's another source from a group which came out of the LSM outreach program in PRC. It is only different in degree. Infiltrate, then build bridges, then take over. Conclusion: they learned their methodology from LSM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EL Handbook
One of the books written by the EL is an “insider handbook,” instructing members how to ruin a church, gather information, win the trust of leaders, convert pastors, and even how to bring an entire congregation under the influence of EL. The book is divided into three chapters. Here is a summary of direct quotes from the EL handbook:

1. Spying is making use of various connections and methods to gain access to the inner workings of churches, winning their trust and confidence, and understanding their structure and plans.
2. Do not speak in such a way as to make others suspicious of you. Be sober and normal, leaving a good impression. Let proper and orderly patterns govern your speech, sleeping, and eating. Be well mannered, dress neatly and normally....
3. You must have some basic knowledge of the Bible. Take special note on what Jesus said in the New Testament, the epistles of Paul, and passages in Revelation concerning saving grace....
4. Know some of the church’s methods of training and indoctrination.
5. Do not spy out these denominations: San Zi (Three-Self Church), Catholics, Dong Zhen (Eastern Orthodox), Buddhists, Taoists, Muslims, Beiliwang (Established King Church), Hongyi Liya (New Testament Church), etc... [Note: the last two groups mentioned are pseudo-Christian cults. Interestingly, the instruction to avoid spying out Three-Self and Catholic churches is contrary to reports from both organizations that the EL has infiltrated their midst and won many converts.]

6. You should spy out the following: Those who believe in Jesus, pray to Jesus, who thirst for God’s revelation; Real believers who truly love God, those with no serious physical disability and a sane mind.
7. How to get the most out of spying: (a) You must try our best not to let people know you are lying, even as we for the sake of our work speak not the truth. (b) During your first few times in a new church speak little and ask many questions. (c) Try to understand the situation, what they emphasize, so that your actions can fall in with theirs, and not raise objections to your presence. (d) Say what they want to hear. Be sincere in prayer, mention some moving, sad things, and ask for more blessings for their families and the church. (e) For those sheep more selfish, or those with families, observe their behavior and make use of their weak points to maintain contact. For example, oblige people if they want to take you as their mentor or confidant. (f) Some believe crying is important in churches, so you should also cry with sadness and bitterness, thus moving their hearts and winning their trust. (g) Others believe a Christian should be outwardly suffering, or persecuted. Therefore you should act with a greater degree of seriousness in order to satisfy such people. (h) Do not, at anytime, preach during this spy stage. Only share some personal experiences or short testimonies, so that people have a good impression of you.

8. How to remove suspicion during spying: Many denominations do not swear oaths before God, so make sure you do not do so. When necessary, weep or kneel to pray, speak sincerely, cry as though it is from the heart and not faked.
9. Bridge building occurs after you have laid a good network of contacts. You will then be able to change people’s perspectives, picking on ideas or thoughts which will easily disrupt God’s work, changing them one by one. In other words, the work of bridge building is to introduce your new teachings that will spark in them “interest,” “appetite,” and “a heart of desire.”
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"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
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