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Old 02-07-2014, 03:39 PM   #1
bearbear
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Default Taped conversation between Sal Benoit and Witness Lee circa 1977/8

Hi Brothers and Sisters,

I started a youtube channel called "Witness Lee's Hidden History"

My first video is Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's phone conversation where Lee admits to the money laundering scheme he set up to protect himself from losses in case DayStar failed. Here is the link to the video:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6800733/wlsl/

I feel this conversation deserves a place on youtube for others to find and search for.

Thanks to http://www.laymansfellowship.com/ for the graphic and transcript.

If any of you have ideas for videos please PM me.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Here's the description of the video:

This is a telephone conversation in 1978 between Sal Benoit, an elder in the Church in Boston and Witness Lee. Witness Lee admits to setting up a money laundering scheme to ensure that he made money even when DayStar failed. DayStar, a company which produced RVs, eventually went bankrupt due to the Iranian oil crisis during the 70s and many Christians in the Local Churches lost their life savings all the while Witness Lee's family was still able to profit.

During an elder's meeting, John Smith of San Diego confronted Witness Lee about this matter. Lee expressed no remorse and remarked that "the saints had lost their virginity".

http://www.laymansfellowship.com/pub...-PhoneCall.pdf
http://www.laymansfellowship.com/pub...chInBoston.pdf

More about Local Church History:
http://www.lordsrecovery.us/HistoryofHiding.pdf

Ezekiel 34:2-6
What sorrow awaits you shepherds who feed yourselves instead of your flocks. Shouldn't shepherds feed their sheep? You drink the milk, wear the wool, and butcher the best animals, but you let your flocks starve. You have not taken care of the weak. You have not tended the sick or bound up the injured. You have not gone looking for those who have wandered away and are lost. Instead, you have ruled them with harshness and cruelty. So my sheep have been scattered without a shepherd, and they are easy prey for any wild animal. They have wandered through all the mountains and all the hills, across the face of the earth, yet no one has gone to search for them.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Thank you, brother BearBear.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

This recording of Sal and Lee cracks me up. It reveals how Witness Lee acted down at he nuts and bolts level of his work, and his slimy ways with money. This reveals the con side of Lee. He's way too calculating not to be conning Sal ... and in the end, all the saints. The MOTA? More like just another con artist of the age ; using Bible sleight of mind tricks to fleece the sheep. How else was Lee's assets in the millions.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Witness Lee laughs around 2:43 and the 9 minute mark. He shows no remorse but belittles Sal and acts like he's doing him a huge favor in letting him in on what happened.

These do not sound like the actions of a born again Christian instead it sounds more like the actions of a tare in the Christian church and someone who knows the way of righteousness but willingly turns their back on God's commandments (2 Peter 2:21).

http://www.mikebickle.org.edgesuite....cteristics.pdf (Point E)

1. Cults: Cults cross biblical boundaries of behavior, especially in immorality and finances.

They twist the Scripture to validate their impurity and lack of financial integrity. False teachers can be detected by their covetousness and immorality (2 Pet. 2:3-18).

By covetousness they will exploit...having eyes full of adultery…heart trained in covetous practices… They allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness. (2 Pet. 2:3-18)
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6800733/wlsl/
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

I lived couple doors from Lee.There were no millions of laundered money. He lived in a small apartment until we built him a nice (not richy)
duplex which he shared with his son's family. There was no private jet, no fleet of exotic cars. Matter of fact I don't think he owned a car.
Someone would pick him up in that person's car and take him to the meetings.

Sal lent Lee's ministry $100,000 and Lee repaid $100,000. Even I, as a young person, donated $25 to Daystar and I was paid back $25. Money laundering? You brothers are presenting a false narrative. Having been a close associate of this ministry for over 30 years, I know of no one who lost their life saving on Daystar.

Where did you get this information? The Bible says you know them by their fruit. His ministry is responsible for raising up thousands of churches world wide. Check out any one of them to witness the comparatively higher standard of character and love for Jesus Christ among the members.

Btw listen again to the tape. Notice Sal giggle as he hangs up.Who is being disengenuous?
AC.
Anaheim
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:40 AM   #8
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post
I lived couple doors from Lee.There were no millions of laundered money. He lived in a small apartment until we built him a nice (not richy) duplex which he shared with his son's family. There was no private jet, no fleet of exotic cars. Matter of fact I don't think he owned a car. Someone would pick him up in that person's car and take him to the meetings.

Sal lent Lee's ministry $100,000 and Lee repaid $100,000. Even I, as a young person, donated $25 to Daystar and I was paid back $25. Money laundering? You brothers are presenting a false narrative. Having been a close associate of this ministry for over 30 years, I know of no one who lost their life saving on Daystar.

Where did you get this information? The Bible says you know them by their fruit. His ministry is responsible for raising up thousands of churches world wide. Check out any one of them to witness the comparatively higher standard of character and love for Jesus Christ among the members.

Btw listen again to the tape. Notice Sal giggle as he hangs up. Who is being disengenuous?
AC.
Anaheim
AC,

I was never a fan of either Sal Benoit or Max Rapoport. Both seemed to love the power and the perks of their position. Both used the young people for selfish gains, and resulted in many getting badly hurt.

Your assessment of Lee's Daystar, however, is not a complete picture. Not all were paid back. In fact, Max R. rose to prominence going church to church persuading the saints not to ask for their Daystar money back, and to consider it an "offering" to the Lord, albeit not tax deductible.

How dare Lee use his credentials and ministry platform to "extort" money from the saints. Didn't Nee warn Lee never to mix business with the church? Lee also did many illegal financial dealings during Daystar, and as a result, brothers who were Daystar officers warned Lee, and then subsequently resigned when Lee continued. Lee felt that he was above the law.

Daystar is a serious black mark on Lee's legacy in more ways than one.
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Old 07-14-2015, 09:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post
I lived couple doors from Lee.There were no millions of laundered money. He lived in a small apartment until we built him a nice (not richy)
duplex which he shared with his son's family. There was no private jet, no fleet of exotic cars. Matter of fact I don't think he owned a car.
Someone would pick him up in that person's car and take him to the meetings.
I don't know that anyone has ever implied that Lee had the intention of making himself wealthy. That might have been said about his sons, and there is evidence that Lee used money from his ministry to support his family. The following excerpt is taken from Philip Lin's book Sacrifice and Sail On. This is from Lee's will, in which he clearly states that up until 1994, money from his ministry was used to support his children, all of whom were adults who should have been supporting themselves.

Quote:
The purpose of such establishment is not for building up an enterprise for myself or my children to secure any gain. In order to protect the copyright from confusion, I decided that the Gospel Bookroom and the Living Stream Ministry should pay me a royalty. Any excess that I received would be offered to the Lord for His use. Later, the royalty I received became more than before. In addition to offering to the Lord, I used the rest to support those of you children who are in need. At the beginning of 1994, while I was resting in the hospital, I felt that although what I received from my royalty payment was a result of my writing, the source of such writing is the word of the Lord. I vowed to the Lord that after I am taken away by the Lord, beginning from the year after that, I will offer all the royalty to the Lord.

Lin, Philip (2014-07-02). Sacrifice and Sail On: My View of Witness Lee, A Bond Slave of Jesus Christ (p. 277). Sail On Publishers. Kindle Edition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post
Sal lent Lee's ministry $100,000 and Lee repaid $100,000. Even I, as a young person, donated $25 to Daystar and I was paid back $25. Money laundering? You brothers are presenting a false narrative. Having been a close associate of this ministry for over 30 years, I know of no one who lost their life saving on Daystar.
Like Ohio mentioned, many were pressured to "forgive" Lee for the loss of their investments. Regardless of who was paid back and who wasn't, what business did Lee have in asking a church to invest $100k in his business? That is just a bad idea to begin with. Furthermore, it seems he preyed upon the saints support of his ministry and their willingness to give. He could reasonably expect there would be support for investments if he made that kind of request. I have no respect him taking advantage of everyone in that way. If he wanted to start a business, that's not a problem, I don't take issue with that. He just should have just found normal investors or taken out loans like everyone does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post
Where did you get this information? The Bible says you know them by their fruit. His ministry is responsible for raising up thousands of churches world wide. Check out any one of them to witness the comparatively higher standard of character and love for Jesus Christ among the members.
You have to be kidding right? Those in the LC have a comparatively higher standard of character? To what, other Christians? This is what happens when you drink too much kool-aid. First of all, the numerous character lapses of LC members have been mostly hidden from view. Just one example of such a character lapse is when W Lee spoke about how he was God's oracle and even said "Lee has to be famous".

The real "fruit" of the LC is a long trail of destruction behind them. Lots of collateral damage. I can't tell you how many I've seen who dropped out because someone decided to be a little bit too "legalistic" with them, or people who gave so much time to the LC only to be ignored when they encountered problems in life. The picture isn't pretty, but nobody in the LC talks about that.
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Old 07-14-2015, 01:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post
I lived couple doors from Lee.There were no millions of laundered money. He lived in a small apartment until we built him a nice (not richy)
duplex which he shared with his son's family. There was no private jet, no fleet of exotic cars. Matter of fact I don't think he owned a car.
Someone would pick him up in that person's car and take him to the meetings.

Sal lent Lee's ministry $100,000 and Lee repaid $100,000. Even I, as a young person, donated $25 to Daystar and I was paid back $25. Money laundering? You brothers are presenting a false narrative. Having been a close associate of this ministry for over 30 years, I know of no one who lost their life saving on Daystar.

Where did you get this information? The Bible says you know them by their fruit. His ministry is responsible for raising up thousands of churches world wide. Check out any one of them to witness the comparatively higher standard of character and love for Jesus Christ among the members.

Btw listen again to the tape. Notice Sal giggle as he hangs up.Who is being disengenuous?
AC.
Anaheim
Yer a funny guy bro AC. One of the members out here was an accountant for Daystar. He knows the truth. But you can't handle the truth, as evidenced by your necessity to dismiss Sal.
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post
I lived couple doors from Lee.There were no millions of laundered money. He lived in a small apartment until we built him a nice (not richy)
duplex which he shared with his son's family. There was no private jet, no fleet of exotic cars. Matter of fact I don't think he owned a car.
Someone would pick him up in that person's car and take him to the meetings.

Sal lent Lee's ministry $100,000 and Lee repaid $100,000. Even I, as a young person, donated $25 to Daystar and I was paid back $25. Money laundering? You brothers are presenting a false narrative. Having been a close associate of this ministry for over 30 years, I know of no one who lost their life saving on Daystar.

Where did you get this information? The Bible says you know them by their fruit. His ministry is responsible for raising up thousands of churches world wide. Check out any one of them to witness the comparatively higher standard of character and love for Jesus Christ among the members.

Btw listen again to the tape. Notice Sal giggle as he hangs up.Who is being disengenuous?
AC.
Anaheim
As far as Witness Lee's living lifestyle, I don't discount your words. However whose land and whose money was used to build the duplex? As for labor, we know in the local churches labor for ministry building projects it's expected to be free of charge. Yet land and building materials are not free of charge.

About Daystar, I know several brothers (one of them being my father) who invested less than $500 and were reimbursed. What is the testimony of those who invested substantially more? One brother I know of passed away from cancer in 2013, so he's not around to testify.
There may have been ones who did lose their life savings and that may be the one of the factors why they're not meeting in the local churches anymore.

Talk about character? Interesting when LSM published their Submission and Authority (est 1990), Nee's word on Character of the Lord's Worker was conveniently omitted. Ironically among the local churches whenever something negative occurs regarding a brother, the phrase "cover the brother(s)" is invoked. As a result, only the positive aspect of a brother is known. 1 Timothy 5:20 is never considered an option while in good standing with LSM. Thus a brother's character (or lack of) is never scrutinized.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post

Where did you get this information? The Bible says you know them by their fruit. His ministry is responsible for raising up thousands of churches world wide. Check out any one of them to witness the comparatively higher standard of character and love for Jesus Christ among the members.
We have had more than a few discussions about Witness Lee's "fruit," specifically his two sons Timothy and Philip, both of which were immoral profligates. During the heyday of the 1980's "new way," it was demanded by Lee that all the churches and all the workers be one with and submit to his "Office" manager Philip.

This was the underlying reason for the so-called "storms" of the late 80's in Anaheim, yet Witness Lee refused to admit this, and instead conjured up some global conspiracy and rebellion to overthrow his ministry. Lee lied to cover up the truth, and to protect his kids. Lee thought nothing of smearing the reputations of John Ingalls and others like him whose only "crime" was to speak their conscience and protect the saints.

To me, that was far more disingenuous than anything Sal Benoit ever did.
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: Recording of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearbear View Post
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6800733/wlsl/

I don't think this particular statement came from this conversation. But Lee did use the "this is none of your business, this is my private business" card on Sal a number of times in this conversation.

For those of you who have never listed to this taped conversation between Sal Benoit (Elder in Boston) and Witness Lee (circa late 1977 early 1978) you're in for a real treat!


*** Note: There is a 30-40 second silent gap right at the beginning while Witness Lee is coming to the phone

-
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: Taped conversation between Sal Benoit and Witness Lee circa 1977/8

I am curious as to who is AC. I invested $1000. In Daystar and all I got back was a receipt signed by WL which I still have as a momento. The receipt stated that I had given the money to Stream publishers which I had hardly heard of.

I have written RK with no response asking if there weren't any of the BBs bothered a little in their conscience over charging one and half million dollars to the saints to hear them preach especially after all the bitter words about the hirelings in Christianity.

Lisbon
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: Taped conversation between Sal Benoit and Witness Lee circa 1977/8

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I have written RK with no response asking if there weren't any of the BBs bothered a little in their conscience over charging one and half million dollars to the saints to hear them preach especially after all the bitter words about the hirelings in Christianity.

Lisbon
Good for you!

We need more members of the LC's to call those hypocrites to task. We have read literally hundreds of testimonies identifying them as mere hirelings.

AC is or was a member of the church in Anaheim, and has posted a couple times.
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Old 08-22-2015, 09:16 AM   #16
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Default Re: Recording of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6800733/wlsl/

I don't think this particular statement came from this conversation. But Lee did use the "this is none of your business, this is my private business" card on Sal a number of times in this conversation.

For those of you who have never listed to this taped conversation between Sal Benoit (Elder in Boston) and Witness Lee (circa late 1977 early 1978) you're in for a real treat!


*** Note: There is a 30-40 second silent gap right at the beginning while Witness Lee is coming to the phone

-
Witness told Sal that "LSM is my personal business." So who inherited it when Witness passed? Do we know? And who owns it now, and who owns Witness Lee's intellectual property rights now? Somebody owns it, and not the Blended Brothers et al. Who?
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Recording of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

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Witness told Sal that "LSM is my personal business."
When Witness Lee wanted your money, it was for God's eternal purpose, or God's move on the earth. When you wanted your investment returned, or an accounting of its whereabouts, suddenly it was his personal business.

To me, the only way to make sense of this is that in his eyes, he was God's Deputy Authority, and in his oriental cultural mindset God's Deputy was the acting God on earth. Whatever he wanted to do or take or say was what God wanted. So there was no discrepancy, if the entire LC was essentially in his pocket, material wealth and all. In the LC, the acting God is God.

It is not coincidental, therefore, that in mainland China, they began calling on his name, "Lord Changshou!! Lord Changshou!!". It was entirely consistent with the cultural imperatives and understandings of his position. Anything less would be inconsistent.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:01 AM   #18
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Default Re: Taped conversation between Sal Benoit and Witness Lee circa 1977/8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisbon View Post
I am curious as to who is AC. I invested $1000. In Daystar and all I got back was a receipt signed by WL which I still have as a momento. The receipt stated that I had given the money to Stream publishers which I had hardly heard of.

I have written RK with no response asking if there weren't any of the BBs bothered a little in their conscience over charging one and half million dollars to the saints to hear them preach especially after all the bitter words about the hirelings in Christianity.

Lisbon
Curious how does a Daystar investment constitute a donation to The Stream Publishers?
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:08 AM   #19
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When Witness Lee wanted your money, it was for God's eternal purpose, or God's move on the earth. When you wanted your investment returned, or an accounting of its whereabouts, suddenly it was his personal business.
Yes, my thought's exactly on Living Stream Ministry. On one hand it is a non-profit organization and on another hand it is run as a family business.
It's been said when Phillip Lee was treasurer for Daystar, there were two sets of books the unofficial (accurate) and the official (inaccurate). The offfcial books is what was reported to IRS. Who is to say the same practice wasn't used in respect to Living Stream Ministry?
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:16 AM   #20
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Default Re: Youtube Video of Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's Phone conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post
I lived couple doors from Lee.There were no millions of laundered money. He lived in a small apartment until we built him a nice (not richy)
duplex which he shared with his son's family. There was no private jet, no fleet of exotic cars. Matter of fact I don't think he owned a car.
Someone would pick him up in that person's car and take him to the meetings.

Sal lent Lee's ministry $100,000 and Lee repaid $100,000. Even I, as a young person, donated $25 to Daystar and I was paid back $25. Money laundering? You brothers are presenting a false narrative. Having been a close associate of this ministry for over 30 years, I know of no one who lost their life saving on Daystar.
AC.
Anaheim
I know of at least one in Anaheim who lost their life savings on Daystar. As to what was said about Lee, I don't dispute any of it. By numerous testimonies, Witness Lee did live very modestly. Can the same be said of his children?
I do believe Witness Lee was a millionaire who lived very modestly. If he wanted any of LSM money to be directed to his children, who was going to tell him no? The blendeds were and still are loyal to the end. There will never be any admission of malfeasance whether committed by Witness Lee or LSM officers.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:09 PM   #21
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Default Re: Taped conversation between Sal Benoit and Witness Lee circa 1977/8

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Hi Brothers and Sisters,

I started a youtube channel called "Witness Lee's Hidden History"

My first video is Sal Benoit and Witness Lee's phone conversation where Lee admits to the money laundering scheme he set up to protect himself from losses in case DayStar failed. Here is the link to the video:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6800733/wlsl/

I feel this conversation deserves a place on youtube for others to find and search for.

Thanks to http://www.laymansfellowship.com/ for the graphic and transcript.

If any of you have ideas for videos please PM me.
An audio and transcript is above along with a diagram.
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:09 AM   #22
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Default Re: Taped conversation between Sal Benoit and Witness Lee circa 1977/8

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Originally Posted by Nell View Post
An audio and transcript is above along with a diagram.
I don't personally know anyone impacted by Daystar, but this conversation doesn't sound like a leader, never mind a Christian leader, or MOTA! Huge red flag.

As the leader of an organization and its finances, I would never speak as Lee did in this clip. If I did, I would hope that I would be held to the highest scrutiny and asked to step down from my position.


Lee - "None of your business"

Lee - "No responsibility to answer anyone about this"

Lee - "I must say a word to you, this is too much, too much"

Lee - "The Ministry is my personal ministry" (NOT how ministry works, NOT how non-profits work!)

Sal - "Brother Lee it's not that simple, I just can't see why you evading, because it gives me the sense of something being dark."

Lee - "You have overstepping, you have overstepped your limit, you see? You have no right to ask me about the Living Stream Account. No that is not your (uh) standing."

This is unreal, must listen to entire clip.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: Taped conversation between Sal Benoit and Witness Lee circa 1977/8

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Originally Posted by leastofthese View Post

Lee - "No responsibility to answer anyone about this"
Though Witness Lee may be dead, this is an attitude that has permeated generation after generation of responsible ones (deacons, elders, coworkers, etc). No responsibility to answer anyone on any issue. Because of that attitude, "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
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"Even a neutral has a right to take account of facts, even a neutral cannot be asked to close his mind or close his conscience."- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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