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Old 05-19-2010, 10:05 AM   #1
thisovercomer
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Default My open apology--To those who have gone before

Saints,
It was only a few years ago that I even began to really ask--So what happened to those who walked away? I admit before then I was probably to immature to care or too fearful to know.

At first I was told by members whom I asked that it was better not to speak of you all because nothing good would come from it. Then after time, especially with the Harvest publishers lawsuit, the reference back to Mindbenders and the whole Titus Chu quarantine, more came out. My heart was so heavy for you all. I am someone who prayers all the time, my heart is at peace when I pray. How many times have I mourned your loss from the LC and pleaded with the Lord to keep supplying you with life and light?

Something inside me kept saying, "But there must still be light in their spirit? God you did not toss them and they can't have tossed you God?" I hope in any of my prayers I did not judge your heart--I think I more wondered what could be so distasteful that you could give up the church life as I enjoyed it. I knew it was not perfect, but IMHO just like me, it was being perfected. So my question to God was--"Why couldn't they have been more patient? Lord take away whatever has blinded them."

I am thankful to the Lord that He told me to pray "bind on earth what is bound in heaven and loose on earth what is loosed in heaven. Lord not my will but your will". This was really a covering from the Lord so that my prayers were under His authority and not under my small understanding of you all.

If in anything I have ever misspoken concerning you all I beg your forgiveness and ask that you release me from anything I have judged you for in my heart.
I now know that the Lord brought me through and made me stronger because he is readying for a purpose. I must believe that some at least, if not all of you, have been called out in the same way for the same purpose. Which for me is still not fully revealed.

Thank you Lord that your blood washes and cleanses me clean.

Hebrews 10:35 Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance in order that, having done the will of God, you may obtain the promise.37 "For in yet a very little while the Coming One will come and will not delay. 38 But My righteous one shall live by faith; and if he shrinks back, My soul does not delight in him.'' 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to ruin but of them who have faith to the gaining of the soul.

Praise you Lord Jesus!!! Thank you that you are the ascended Head of all things.
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:05 PM   #2
countmeworthy
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

WOW ! TOC !
What a heartfelt message to us 'lepers'. One of the biggest obstacles we former LCrs have overcome is experiencing Newness of Life outside the LC wall. For years we were 'brainwashed to believe there was nothing out there in 'Christianity' and bad things were mostly likely going to happen to us. But not true at all ! And I think that is part of the reason we are gathered in this form and the other 'public square berean' forum.

Sometimes former LC saints pounce too heavily on the LSM/LC. Everyone's experience was different. Mine wasn't soo bad. But by 1978/79, we were no longer praying/reading the Word of God as much as were the Life Studies. The meetings started with "Praise the Lord for Brother Lee." "And Brother Lee's ministry this and his ministry that." It seemed his name and his ministry was 'all that and more'.

Many of the elders in different cities became full of themselves as 'leaders', bullying the saints. They became 'yes' men to Brother Lee while spiritually and emotionally slaughtering the sheep.

Before the internet, former LCrs were truly on their own. With the advent of the internet, the former LCrs found a means to connect and thus vent, voice their concerns and rejoice they weren't the only ones who feel betrayed by the LC.

Many of the LCrs are precious saints in their own right. It's their absolute loyalty to Lee and the LSM that has helped divide the body of Christ.

I ama very,very tired right now so before I ramble on and don't know what I'm saying, I'm signing off !!!

Keep on posting TOC. Keep on posting!


Quote:
Originally Posted by thisovercomer View Post
Saints,
It was only a few years ago that I even began to really ask--So what happened to those who walked away? I admit before then I was probably to immature to care or too fearful to know....
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

Today I finally understood 1 Cor. 13's placement between chapters 12 and 14.

The whole section is just Paul admonishing the Corinthian believers to grow up and meet together in authentic Christian love.

I'll never refer to it as "The Love Chapter" again because it really has no place being read at marriage ceremonies at all and that kind of reference just perpetuates the confusion. I guess "The Believers' Love Chapter" might work if you needed to come up with a sermon title but it's really all about receiving the believers.

OK maybe not so monumental to those of us here but considering the cumulative effect of millions of sermons spoken about the relationship between husband and wife based upon this passage, taken out of context and with a completely superimposed interpretation, it was kind of a big deal for me today...
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

Quote:
Originally Posted by thisovercomer View Post
Saints,
It was only a few years ago that I even began to really ask--So what happened to those who walked away?

Something inside me kept saying, "But there must still be light in their spirit? God you did not toss them and they can't have tossed you God?" I hope in any of my prayers I did not judge your heart--I think I more wondered what could be so distasteful that you could give up the church life as I enjoyed it. I knew it was not perfect, but IMHO just like me, it was being perfected. So my question to God was--"Why couldn't they have been more patient? Lord take away whatever has blinded them."

I am thankful to the Lord that He told me to pray "bind on earth what is bound in heaven and loose on earth what is loosed in heaven. Lord not my will but your will". This was really a covering from the Lord so that my prayers were under His authority and not under my small understanding of you all.

Thank you Lord that your blood washes and cleanses me clean.

Hebrews 10:35 Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance in order that, having done the will of God, you may obtain the promise.37 "For in yet a very little while the Coming One will come and will not delay. 38 But My righteous one shall live by faith; and if he shrinks back, My soul does not delight in him.'' 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to ruin but of them who have faith to the gaining of the soul.

Praise you Lord Jesus!!! Thank you that you are the ascended Head of all things.
Amen!
For over 15 years I've been asking the same question of all those young people I knew from Young People's Conferences. They could not have all abandoned their faith. Time has tested, the young people I knew in my youth have not. many I knew are still pursuing the Lord, but not through the local churches.
The question about blindness should be rephrased as, what did ones who left see I did not see?
If we as members of the body loose ourselves of a small heart, there will be a realization that Christians meeting in the recovery is not the whole body, but a small portion of what comprises the Body of Christ. Through this, our understanding will not be so small.

Terry
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

Sometimes former LC saints pounce too heavily on the LSM/LC

I'm aware that I may also be somewhat vengeful toward the LSM/LC. Some of my feelings that I have remind me of how I felt about the RCC when I come into the Recovery. After reading " The Orthodoxy of the Church" and Miller's Church History I became proud. I thought I knew more than my parents. Over the last few years, while the Lord was gently leading me out of LR, I made peace with the RCC. I realised that it was within RCC I became a believer. Around the time of the Open Publication campaign, I said to a brother close to me, that i sometimes wish I was still in the RCC, despite all its faults & flaws, they have a hierarchy, yet they don't lie about it. THe RCC is still coming to terms with its abuses, yet at the very least there is an acknowledgement of those abuses even though accountability is still lacking.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11of101 View Post
Sometimes former LC saints pounce too heavily on the LSM/LC

I'm aware that I may also be somewhat vengeful toward the LSM/LC. Some of my feelings that I have remind me of how I felt about the RCC when I come into the Recovery. After reading " The Orthodoxy of the Church" and Miller's Church History I became proud. I thought I knew more than my parents. Over the last few years, while the Lord was gently leading me out of LR, I made peace with the RCC. I realised that it was within RCC I became a believer. Around the time of the Open Publication campaign, I said to a brother close to me, that i sometimes wish I was still in the RCC, despite all its faults & flaws, they have a hierarchy, yet they don't lie about it. THe RCC is still coming to terms with its abuses, yet at the very least there is an acknowledgement of those abuses even though accountability is still lacking.
Hey brother 11,
I was raised in the RCC too and believe it or not, I am THANKFUL and Grateful I was raised as a Catholic. First of all, while I was bored silly the 12 years I went to Catholic school, I did learn the truth about God. There are 3 persons in One God, the Father, the Son & the Holy Ghost. I learned Jesus was born of a virgin, died on the cross for OUR sins, resurrected from the dead, ascended into heaven and is coming again. Did I understand any of this ? nope. But I believed what I was told to God be the Glory !

So a few years ago, I am sharing the LORD, the teachings of the WORD of God to my high school best friend who is very hungry for Jesus. I didn't use any formula but listened and followed the leading of the Holy Spirit.

One day my friend reminds me she was raised Catholic and she was not going to leave the RCC. I reminded her I was in the same Catholic school with her and then asked her "Have I said ANYTHING about the Catholic church ? Have I told you to LEAVE the RCC? Was it not there that we learned there are Three Persons in ONE God ? Didn't we learn etc...etc...etc...?" So what's the problem I asked her. She pondered and replied 'I don't know.'

A few weeks later we went to a restaurant and as we were served our food, she makes the 'sign of the cross' without giving it any thought. You know how most Catholics just make a cross over their head, chest and shoulders and QUICK ! Gotta get that out of the way !

So I stopped her and said "HEY ! PAY ATTENTION when you are making the sign of the cross ! If you're going to make it, then say thoughtfully and prayerfully: IN the NAME of the FATHER-GOD, IN the NAME of the SON-JESUS, In the NAME of the Holy Ghost- Bless me and Bless my food.'

She looked at me for a moment pondering what I had just told her then said 'Wow. I never looked at it that way.'

You see brother 11. I never bad mouthed the RCC...until later.. Here's what happened. I have some Catholic RELIGIOUS friends. On my b-day, I was given the most HEDIEOUS Crucifix with the body hanging on it. Now, I've gone to mass many a time and those crucifixes don't bother me, nor do statues (although I don't have them in my house, nor do I care for them.) But this particular crucifix had a DEMON in it. I SAW it ! Well, I didn't say anything to anyone and simply placed it back in the gift bag, thanking my friends for the gifts.

I got home and threw it away, praying that my friends would not inquire of it next time they came over to visit.

One day, I'm with my friend who I am leading to the Lord. We got talking about religions. I tell her there are some demonic religions and some how I told her that the crucifix our other friend had given me had a demon. You should have seen her reaction. It was short of a Cardiac arrest ! She is almost shaking in her boots having heard what I told her and says "Carol! How can you say that about a crucifix !! I told her "Well. IT DID HAVE A DEMON ! I SAW it's face and it was all contorted! When I got home, I looked at it again and it was not there anymore. Now look. It had a demon. She is still clutching her chest for dear life. I then told her "Do you think GOD is going to strike me with lightning or strike me dead for speaking the TRUTH that the crucifix had a demon in it ?'

Fast forward 3 years later. She is sooo strong in the Word of God now ! We get together and we read the scriptures. Halleluiah to the Lamb of God. She often tells me we never learned the bible in the Catholic church !

Anyway....I hope you enjoyed one of my chapters in my spiritual journey.

Shalom brother 11.
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Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11of101 View Post
Sometimes former LC saints pounce too heavily on the LSM/LC

I'm aware that I may also be somewhat vengeful toward the LSM/LC. Some of my feelings that I have remind me of how I felt about the RCC when I come into the Recovery. After reading " The Orthodoxy of the Church" and Miller's Church History I became proud. I thought I knew more than my parents. Over the last few years, while the Lord was gently leading me out of LR, I made peace with the RCC. I realised that it was within RCC I became a believer. Around the time of the Open Publication campaign, I said to a brother close to me, that i sometimes wish I was still in the RCC, despite all its faults & flaws, they have a hierarchy, yet they don't lie about it. THe RCC is still coming to terms with its abuses, yet at the very least there is an acknowledgement of those abuses even though accountability is still lacking.
Do I hear you correctly? You left the RCC for what you thought was better, it wasn't wasn't, so now you are thinking of going back to the RCC? Are you someone that needs to belong? Why do you need either of them?
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:26 PM   #8
11of101
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

I am not as eager to 'belong' as I used to be. I belong to Jesus.

Remember the line from Full Metal Jacket: "You can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the marines." That's the spirit of the Borg's Recovery.

Live long & prosper in the Lord!
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Old 04-17-2016, 09:24 PM   #9
testallthings
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

Quote:
Originally Posted by thisovercomer View Post
Saints,
It was only a few years ago that I even began to really ask--So what happened to those who walked away? I admit before then I was probably to immature to care or too fearful to know.

At first I was told by members whom I asked that it was better not to speak of you all because nothing good would come from it. Then after time, especially with the Harvest publishers lawsuit, the reference back to Mindbenders and the whole Titus Chu quarantine, more came out. My heart was so heavy for you all. I am someone who prayers all the time, my heart is at peace when I pray. How many times have I mourned your loss from the LC and pleaded with the Lord to keep supplying you with life and light?

Something inside me kept saying, "But there must still be light in their spirit? God you did not toss them and they can't have tossed you God?" I hope in any of my prayers I did not judge your heart--I think I more wondered what could be so distasteful that you could give up the church life as I enjoyed it. I knew it was not perfect, but IMHO just like me, it was being perfected. So my question to God was--"Why couldn't they have been more patient? Lord take away whatever has blinded them."

I am thankful to the Lord that He told me to pray "bind on earth what is bound in heaven and loose on earth what is loosed in heaven. Lord not my will but your will". This was really a covering from the Lord so that my prayers were under His authority and not under my small understanding of you all.

If in anything I have ever misspoken concerning you all I beg your forgiveness and ask that you release me from anything I have judged you for in my heart.
I now know that the Lord brought me through and made me stronger because he is readying for a purpose. I must believe that some at least, if not all of you, have been called out in the same way for the same purpose. Which for me is still not fully revealed.

Thank you Lord that your blood washes and cleanses me clean.

Hebrews 10:35 Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance in order that, having done the will of God, you may obtain the promise.37 "For in yet a very little while the Coming One will come and will not delay. 38 But My righteous one shall live by faith; and if he shrinks back, My soul does not delight in him.'' 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to ruin but of them who have faith to the gaining of the soul.

Praise you Lord Jesus!!! Thank you that you are the ascended Head of all things.
from: Local Church Discussions > Fellowship Hall > My open apology--To those who have gone before
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Old 04-28-2016, 05:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

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from: Local Church Discussions > Fellowship Hall > My open apology--To those who have gone before
Well, what happened to me as and after I left was angry praying and solemn oaths that I'm fished with the religious system known as the LSM LR LC. I think the reason I still have faith is that I had a positive experience in Christianity before I entered the man-honoring sect known as TLR. I am really sad for the ones whose faith has been shipwrecked. I believe the Lord will hold the false-teaching blendeds and elders responsible for the loss of these "little ones".
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Old 04-28-2016, 09:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: My open apology--To those who have gone before

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man-honoring sect
I believe that's the product of deputy authority doctrine. Humility is replaced with pride. Really God's name is taken in vain. Any consideration that a leading brother could be wrong, simply he'd utter "God is sovereign". As if any misunderstanding, wrongdoing, etc has an out clause.
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