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Introductions and Testimonies Please tell everybody something about yourself. Tell us a little. Tell us a lot. Its up to you!

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Old 12-19-2019, 10:26 AM   #1
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Default Spiritual Journey

My family is in the LC. (Not my immediate family, but my aunt and her family)

I have read this letter recently and have been trying to do extensive research into the history of the Local Church Movement and Witness Lee's doctrine and teachings.

I have read those that have gone against the church and about their experiences with the LC, and then have also read those that LOVE the LC.

I am completely in the middle of all of this controversy, and I have attended some meetings and conferences in my past to better understand what the LC is all about.

After doing more research, it is really making me question whether or not the LC is for me. As I am on a spiritual journey right now.

My aunt hasn't helped any in providing me solid answers, but more so biased opinions. Especially when it came to Joanna Casteele's Facebook post. She was so quick to say that it was because she left the church that her husband Greg had committed suicide. And my aunt actually KNEW Joanna Casteele and her husband. She took them out to lunch on several occasions on Sundays, whenever they were in Anaheim for the training.

I am not sure who I am inclined to believe, as I do not know Joanna. But at the same time, I also believe that her reasonings and points in her letter are completely valid. And my aunt saying what she said kind of only makes me believe more and more that maybe the LC does say those sort of things to their church members.

"If you leave the church, then God will no longer cover you or protect you. Bad things will happen to you." Which comes off as manipulation, isolating, and condemning.

I really want more answers and personal experiences with current and former people of the LC please!

Thanks
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:28 AM   #2
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Default Re: Spiritual Journey

Welcome to the forum!

There's a lot of doublespeak in the LC's about when "bad things happen" to members, or even Christians in general. I was there for 30 years, and then left 14 years ago. When I left, stepping away from the program, all sorts of contradictions became apparent to me. This is just one of them.

When bad things happen to outsiders, they say "see, the Lord has judged them." When bad things happen to their members, they say, "see, the enemy fights extra hard against us because we are for the church." Such a perfect self-reinforcing system.

The truth is we all suffer. And the truth is that God loves us. Look at the major characters in the Bible, did not they all suffer? Read Hebrews 11. Read how much Paul suffered. Read Job's story. Job did nothing wrong whatsoever, yet he suffered horribly, despairing of life itself. God desires to prove our faith, more precious than gold, and that explains why we all suffer. (I Peter 1:3-9)

This is one reason we got so frustrated with LSM. They speak with forked tongue. They take responsibility for nothing that goes wrong. They demand vain-glory for all that seems good. They have skilled word-smiths who can blame-shift the ridiculous. They are the judges of all, and they even believe they can know what is in the hearts of others.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:08 PM   #3
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In response to Ohio's post here, and from my vantage point as an outsider looking in, I have a question:

How can the Lord be someone whom we love so much that he becomes our 'everything' (a word often used in testimonies of LCers, and by WL) when He is vindictive and controlling to treat people the way described by Ohio's Post? Those two things don't square with each other. At least, I don't get it.

Maybe a question for 'unregistered' to explore.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:19 PM   #4
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How can the Lord be someone whom we love so much that he becomes our 'everything' (a word often used in testimonies of LCers, and by WL) when He is vindictive and controlling to treat people the way described by Ohio's Post? Those two things don't square with each other. At least, I don't get it.
No, they do not square, and thus the existence of this forum.

The leaders of the group that lay claim to being "God's best" and therefore should really have that "everything" look more like guys in trench coats trying to sell $10 Rolex watches in Time Square.

That is the only thing to get from it.
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Old 12-20-2019, 06:30 PM   #5
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Thank you! I didn't think of it that way. But that definitely opened my eyes.
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Old 12-21-2019, 06:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious View Post
In response to Ohio's post here, and from my vantage point as an outsider looking in, I have a question:

How can the Lord be someone whom we love so much that he becomes our 'everything' (a word often used in testimonies of LCers, and by WL) when He is vindictive and controlling to treat people the way described by Ohio's Post? Those two things don't square with each other. At least, I don't get it.
Curious, you answered your own question when you said, "from my vantage point as an outsider looking in." Inside the Recovery the views are all together different.

We regularly heard stories about God judging those who spoke out against Lee or the LSM. This fear settles in your heart and grows weeds.
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Old 12-21-2019, 06:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
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There's a lot of doublespeak in the LC's about when "bad things happen" to members, or even Christians in general.
When Witness Lee became ill with cancer and eventually died from it I don’t recall the blendeds or any of the local church saints suggesting that was God’s judgement on him. And many local church saints have various illnesses (as do Christians in the various community churches I’ve attended since I left TLR). I contracted the brain tumor I’ve been fighting for 13-1/2 years when I was in TLR. The whole “leave TLR and suffer God’s judgement” is baloney and an obvious control mechanism.
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious View Post
In response to Ohio's post here, and from my vantage point as an outsider looking in, I have a question:
My perspective is that Lee and the LC got so caught-up in the whole God's Economy thing regarding His purpose, that they failed to see the "why," that is, why does God have an administration? IT IS HIS AWESOME LOVE!!!

Yes, God eternal has a purpose, formed in His eternal past, and the motivation for His plan and for carrying it out is His love for us. But WL got way too focused on the purpose aspect - "God has an eternal purpose, and if you get in His way He will crush you flat!" (to paraphrase). Yes, God has a purpose, but above all else He loves us! He carries out His purpose to rescue man and bring him into a complete and loving relationship with Him. It's why Jesus came.

Near the end of his life, Lee is reported to have repented and told the saints that love and acceptance of other believers was the main missing ingredient in the ministry. I choose to take that at face value and believe he really meant it, however, it appears that LC leaders did not take that speaking to heart.

So when you have a whole system built up with the key ingredient missing - love - the whole thing is corrupted. I praise the Lord for the time He had me in the LCs, and there were a handful of solid take-aways (He is so faithful), but I'm glad He moved me passed it too!
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