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Old 12-17-2019, 07:15 PM   #1
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Default They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

They actually try to defend the way Ron spoke about his wife this past summer.

Sorry co-worker bros, no matter how you cut it, and no matter how much surrounding context you try to "un-wrench" from the snippets, Ron's speaking is still gross.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:02 PM   #2
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Default They actually try to defend the way Ron spoke about his wife

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They actually try to defend the way Ron spoke about his wife this past summer.

Sorry co-worker bros, no matter how you cut it, and no matter how much surrounding context you try to "un-wrench" from the snippets, Ron's speaking is still gross.
But who taught him to be so arrogantly abusive on the podium?

And how many are now learning all the wrong things from him?
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Old 12-18-2019, 05:29 AM   #3
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Default They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

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But who taught him to be so arrogantly abusive on the podium?
Who taught Ron K to speak this way? This kind of evil speaking is of the devil himself.

Quote:
And how many are now learning all the wrong things from him?
Everyone. Everyone who chooses to believe and practice such demonic evil.

Eph. 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
...
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;


I don’t see how any sober minded man can, from the podium, speak such evil about approximately half of the body of Christ and yet hold himself up as a minister of truth.

Isaiah 5:20 “Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!”


Lord help and forgive us all.
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Old 12-18-2019, 12:45 PM   #4
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Default They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

Ron Kangas: "I am the Co-Worker! My wife is nothing! To recognize her as an equal child of God and human being would be to put her on the throne and crown her! There is no room on my royal throne for my spouse! There is only room for me, the exalted Blended Co-Worker! For any sister to have an opinion about anything, much less dare to speak the truth regarding any kind of abuse against her is in rebellion against God's deputy authority, and they are subject to having the earth open up and swallow them alive!"
(Highly expanded paraphrase by UntoHim, and does not necessarily reflect the attitudes or opinions of any other forum member)
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Old 12-18-2019, 02:11 PM   #5
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They have been trying to lead the whole body of christ from the front now for how many years? Completely disconnected, they are oblivious to how ridiculous their attitudes on some of these topics are. No self-respecting minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ in any respectable setting would be foolish enough to dream of spouting such words and expect to be taken seriously. It's beyond the pale and very embarrassing.... for them.
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Old 12-18-2019, 02:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

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They actually try to defend the way Ron spoke about his wife this past summer.

Sorry co-worker bros, no matter how you cut it, and no matter how much surrounding context you try to "un-wrench" from the snippets, Ron's speaking is still gross.
Each time they write another one of these articles, they take the default stance that the LCM can do or say nothing wrong and then proceed to accuse others of deliberately misinterpreting what was spoken.

Too bad for them that the recording of Ron has already made its rounds, and everyone has heard what he said for themselves. Their continuous boldfaced lies are getting really old.
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Old 12-25-2019, 12:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

Does anyone have a link to where he spoke this about his wife? It at least where and when? Thanks.
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Old 12-26-2019, 08:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

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Ron Kangas: "I am the Co-Worker! My wife is nothing! To recognize her as an equal child of God and human being would be to put her on the throne and crown her! There is no room on my royal throne for my spouse! There is only room for me, the exalted Blended Co-Worker! For any sister to have an opinion about anything, much less dare to speak the truth regarding any kind of abuse against her is in rebellion against God's deputy authority, and they are subject to having the earth open up and swallow them alive!"
(Highly expanded paraphrase by UntoHim, and does not necessarily reflect the attitudes or opinions of any other forum member)
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Since you state that this is a paraphrase, what is the actual thing Kangas said?
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Old 12-26-2019, 06:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

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Since you state that this is a paraphrase, what is the actual thing Kangas said?
From the article on the LSM site "shepherding words."
Quote:
I am so thankful I have my companion, my wife, to travel with me wherever I go, but I am the co-worker; I am the one ministering. She is nothing. She is no one. She is just my wife. I will never crown her. I will never exalt her. To do so would be to damage her. (Ron Kangas, The Ministry of the Word 23:7 (July 2019), 229-230)
This would have to be compared with the audio tape to confirm the wording.
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

Hey brothers, why don't we just put a sock in our mouth and ask all the sisters out there what they think of what Ron Kangas spewed out in that meeting? I have a feeling that their expanded paraphrase would be even harsher than mine.

Sisters. Fire away!

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Old 12-27-2019, 08:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

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From the article on the LSM site "shepherding words."This would have to be compared with the audio tape to confirm the wording.
I guess Ron Kangas never read past verse 6 of 1 Peter 3. https://biblehub.com/blb/1_peter/3.htm. Selective hearing? I don’t know who he learned that from?

Sorry, I just couldn’t keep that sock in my mouth for a second. Failed the test
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Old 12-29-2019, 01:40 AM   #12
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

Responding to:

ShepherdingWords.com.
Under; ‘Articles’
‘Newly added articles’
‘Twisting Ron Kangas ‘s Words’ posted on Dec 16 2019.

My responses to their 4 main points are quoted here, from their published document. My comment on the rest of their article does not include quotes from their article.

Point 1. ‘Some claim authority for themselves because they are married to a co-worker or an elder. They crown themselves, saying “you are a co-worker now and so am I. We are a team.”’

Implicit in this statement is a worldly concept of authority. ‘She’ is ‘crowning herself’ to share in her husband’s ministry. To be a co-worker or elder, is therefore, to wear a ‘crown? Why?.... No matter the reason, it’s clear, in the LC, co-workers and elders wear crowns because they have authority. Such a status imputes a crown. And men and women should not work together as a team if they are married. If it’s her idea its wrong, even if her husband supports her in it, as further points reveal, its still wrong.

I know a husband and wife who run a Christian ministry together as a team. They both share a heart for the calling of this ministry, their giftings and strengths are complimentary. This is great for their relationship and the ministry they run, to my knowledge. I have never thought of either of them ‘wearing crowns’ and neither have they. Thinking in such terms seems to focus on status and authority in a worldly and not Christ-like way. I wonder why ‘shepherding words’ assumes that a married couple working together as a team is a bad thing, and that only the man can ‘wear the crown’ of authority. All an unnecessary focus on domination and submission.

(Even more ‘horrifying’ to the LC mentality, this ministry has many, many couples, teamed together, as couples in their roles, it’s a norm for them! They would be totally puzzled and perplexed if you suggested anything unchristian, or even fundamentally problematic about it.)

Furthermore, later in the document, RK adds the idea that to be crowned is to be exalted, and to being damaged by being exalted. This gets weirder. It would seem he believes that he can wear a crown and be thereby exalted, without being damaged by it. To exalt a sister in this way, any sister at all, is ‘improper’, but to do so to a brother is not? No reason given, except the arbitrary idea of being ‘proper’, which explains nothing at all.

Point 2 ‘The brother may make the big mistake of fostering this kind of concept in his wife. He may even exalt her, telling others, “Listen to her. She knows how to pray with authority’…. (Why not say ‘effectively’ rather than ‘with authority’? The language used is all about power and control)….. ‘She knows how to pray prayers of spiritual warfare.” In contrast, those who really know how to pray in this way, simply pray in this way. They do not boast or talk about it.’

Its another great sin for a person to state their interest and area of gifting in order to seek a role in the church that fits. To do so is bad in two ways. First it is ‘boasting’ (boasting is a motivation, not the act itself, you can’t judge motivation in this way, unless you are very silly) and second it is to… ‘talk’…..what? so to talk is bad. To communicate relevant information straightforwardly and clearly…this makes no sense, making a sin out of nothing. A good husband values his wife’s giftings and seeks to support her in having an outlet for it. but in the LC that’s a bad thing.

Rather it seems that this idea promotes shame. To be too ashamed to mention you believe God might use your gifting within the work seems noble in the world of the LC. I think this stinks, and produces frustration and a sense of inadequacy, inferiority and shame in people. (To use RK’s own words), damaging them!

Rather, when we honour Jesus then one of the things He does in return is He honours the investment he has put in us, to let it flourish. This is part of His plan and purpose in the way He made us, to be placed like a gem or precious stone, in the ‘setting’ of the Body. The stone is revealed in its best when in the setting it was designed for. We are all precious stones in this way, in the Body of Christ, where He shines through us.

Point 3 ‘Some females usurp authority. They claim to be the spiritual head over their husbands. They turn everything upside down. This has actually happened.’

People who are suppressed and controlled will find ways to empower themselves. Those who are oppressed will learn, over time, to trade in power, and will play the game to seek the advantage. The negative side of their giftings is what they’ll use for this end, and you’ll find yourself locked in a subversive battle. A win/loose battle, that reflects nothing of Jesus but is all about survival at the expense of the other.

Point 4 ‘The husband may give in to such a usurping wife. He may even take the lead to rebel….a certain man….appointed three sisters to be leading sisters, including his wife. They and the women who followed them caused some of the most painful and traumatic suffering that we have ever experienced. Eventually, Brother Lee said, “this is a cancer”. They rejected Brother Lee’s fellowship, but the Lord cut that cancer out of the body.

Only because these women were ‘leading’, ‘pain, trauma and suffering’ happened, and they became a ‘cancer’? (who experienced this pain and trauma? It’s not included on this forum as part of the grievances of those who have left that I have noticed). Only women who accept their place in this system will not find this a demeaning attitude.

Queen Elizabeth the first was arguably the best monarch England has had, and certainly had the wisdom and insight needed at that time, unlike her father. Deborah lead Israel. We can’t ignore these testimonies against the claims of the LC.

The rest of the Article:

There is so much funny stuff in the first section of this document that the attempt at mopping it up just doesn’t work. RK has declared his wife to be ‘nothing’, not ‘her gifting and calling lie elsewhere in the ministry’. You can’t really fudge that. I don’t know that sharing in her husband’s ministry will damage her, but such words definitely would. How can you be nothing when you are fearfully and wonderfully made? When Jesus valued you enough to die for you?

Next. Miriam and Aron. They criticized Moses due to the familiarity of being his siblings, not because Miriam was a woman. The fact of her being female seems neither directly or indirectly relevant to the story at all. If it is, then someone please explain that to me. She received punishment and Aron didn’t, the bible doesn’t explain why, so it’s up to us to either guess, speculate, or ask for revelation. Maybe God did it that way because He just doesn’t like women!!!! (I don’t agree with that idea, by the way, but I suspect some in the LC do!).

The whole article is all about control, and whose got it and who’s not allowed any!!

I suggest a read of the book 'Why not Women' by Loren Cunningham and David Hamilton. It gives history and context to male/female attitudes in the Christian church and in Israel before the time of Christ, for those who haven't researched it before it covers the subject well.

That's my response to this article!
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Old 12-29-2019, 07:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

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Hey brothers, why don't we just put a sock in our mouth and ask all the sisters out there what they think of what Ron Kangas spewed out in that meeting? I have a feeling that their expanded paraphrase would be even harsher than mine.

Sisters. Fire away!

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UntoHim,

There was no need to “twist” Ron Kangas’ words. The words came out of his mouth twisted.

He spoke in plain English. No need to insult anyone’s intelligence with pretense of some “spiritual” message. We know this because of history.

My question: Who talks this way? Who talks this way and why? To what end?

Here’s what Ron and his defenders should have said:

I’m sorry. I was wrong. We were wrong. My words toward my wife were harsh and incendiary and I totally understand why they were received as they were. I should have realized that whatever point I was trying to make would be lost.

I/We now realize that, historically, with such speaking and indeed treatment of women, those of us in Leadership have cultivated a culture of abuse in the churches. To all of you, men and women, I offer my sincere repentance for this terrible misrepresentation of God’s Word and God’s heart toward all of those for whom he gave his Son.

As fallen men, we learned a false understanding of authority. We seek to exercise authority over others, and indeed over women specifically. This is wrong. We are wrong. Please accept our repentance for propagating this evil and destructive understanding among the believers in the church for whom Jesus died.

If there is anyone among you, and I’m sure there are many, who have something you would like to say to us, bring to our attention, our door is now open. In the past, we assumed a position of power over you, punished you and blamed you for speaking the truth to us or about us. Not that we deserve it, but please forgive us, for once again, we were wrong. Our door was closed to you and to the truth. Please forgive us for our past offenses, our blindness and our deafness. We want to hear you and repent to each of you who desire to come and open your hearts to us without fear of retribution or retaliation or accusations of being “negative” or any such thing.


These are the words of a shepherd.

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Old 12-29-2019, 07:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

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20 But ye have not so learned Christ;[/COLOR
Isaiah 5:20 “Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!”


Lord help and forgive us all.
Nell

But they still claim that we shouldn't follow the principle of good and evil coming from tree of knowledge of good and evil embodied by Satan.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:01 AM   #15
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Concerning Myriam and Aaron who protested against Moses's marriage with Gentiles, it symbolizes Christ typified by Moses married with the Church as a bridegroom coming from gentile nations. This predicts Christ will be rejected by Myriam (Hebrew name refers to rebellion) typified as rebellious Israel and Aaron typified as Judaism's priesthood like Annas and Caiphas who reject Jesus.

The reason why only Myriam became leprous while Aaron was still fine is that God, even forsaking Israel and turning to Gentiles, still keeps Judaic priesthood until second coming of Jesus and millennium kingdom where Jews will serve Him as priests.

So, it has nothing to do with self proclaiming deputy authority of God among Blended Brothers and LC.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:28 AM   #16
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

The real question here is not whether the wife of Ron Kangas has any legitimate authority, but whether Ron has any legitimate authority in the body of Christ.

Ron Kangas was a Princeton theological graduate who became an ineffective elder in a local church, and then was picked by WL to be a book editor at LSM. Kangas rose to prominence at LSM after John Ingalls and his translation team were thrown under the bus over the Phillip Lee scandal. Whereas Kangas, Benson Phillips, Ray Graver, and others bowed down to WL's reprobate son Philip, the so-called "Office," Ingalls and others took a stand for the Lord, for truth, for righteousness, and for the children of God. They were all slandered and expelled for their stand. Forget the Bible, forget the truth, forget about righteousness, forget about God and His people, the Recovery is all about the lust for power and control.

In a religious system which whole-heartedly believed that their movement required a MOTA, a Minister of the Age, when WL died a leadership vacuum was created. As the principal speaker and theologian, Kangas filled that void in the hearts of the Recovery faithful. He assumed Lee's position.

The Recovery loves to use Moses as their authority paradigm. The problem is that no scriptural basis whatsoever exists that Moses was a type or picture of a N.T. minister. The Bible clearly states, however, that Moses was the forerunner of Jesus Christ, who build God's house. (Deut 18, Acts 3, Hebrews 3, II Cor 3-4, etc.)

After leaving the Catholic church of my upbringing, I rejected all false Papal claims of the "Vicar of Christ" on earth. After leaving the Recovery, I also rejected all illegitimate MOTA claims of "Deputy Authority" by WL or any of his Blendeds, including Ron Kangas.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Nell View Post
My question: Who talks this way? Who talks this way and why? To what end?

Here’s what Ron and his defenders should have said:

I’m sorry. I was wrong. We were wrong. My words toward my wife were harsh and incendiary and I totally understand why they were received as they were. I should have realized that whatever point I was trying to make would be lost.

I/We now realize that, historically, with such speaking and indeed treatment of women, those of us in Leadership have cultivated a culture of abuse in the churches. To all of you, men and women, I offer my sincere repentance for this terrible misrepresentation of God’s Word and God’s heart toward all of those for whom he gave his Son.

As fallen men, we learned a false understanding of authority. We seek to exercise authority over others, and indeed over women specifically. This is wrong. We are wrong. Please accept our repentance for propagating this evil and destructive understanding among the believers in the church for whom Jesus died.

If there is anyone among you, and I’m sure there are many, who have something you would like to say to us, bring to our attention, our door is now open. In the past, we assumed a position of power over you, punished you and blamed you for speaking the truth to us or about us. Not that we deserve it, but please forgive us, for once again, we were wrong. Our door was closed to you and to the truth. Please forgive us for our past offenses, our blindness and our deafness. We want to hear you and repent to each of you who desire to come and open your hearts to us without fear of retribution or retaliation or accusations of being “negative” or any such thing.


These are the words of a shepherd.

Nell

Excellent, Nell.

I wish we had "like" buttons so I could like your post.

It sticks out like a sore thumb that no matter what the BBs say, it is defended tooth and nail. As if they could never, ever say the wrong thing or be too much or be over the top and simply need to apologize for speaking out of line. How much healing that would bring to so many who are bothered by this kind of speaking from the podium!

But nooooooo, everyone ELSE is always wrong. *eye roll*
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Old 12-29-2019, 11:10 PM   #18
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That's my response to this article!
Great post, Curious.

Great point that in the LC the co-worker status imputes a crown. Implicit in Ron's saying he will never exalt his wife is that he is in a position himself of exaltation.

It's also interesting like you said that he puts down those who say their wives "pray with authority" rather than "pray effectively". Who cares about "praying with authority"? Only those who want to be seen in front of others as having authority, which Jesus told us not to do. As believers we all pray with the same authority granted by the same Spirit who lives in us.

For Ron to say "I am the one ministering"......to me it's like.....you don't think you wife can minister to others too? Get over yourself, man.

Regarding Miriam and Aaron, while Miriam did seem to get the direct punishment of leprosy, it is interesting to note what happened to Aaron. Aaron was also speaking against Moses saying "hasn't the Lord also spoken to us?" And when Miriam became leprous, Aaron turned to Moses, called him "my lord", and begged him to ask God to heal Miriam. Aaron was not punished, per se, but he was immediately subjected to Moses's authority and place as the one who had a "direct" line to God, which was the very thing Aaron was rebelling against him about. At the very least Aaron was put in his place.

Another interesting tidbit, while we're on the story, is that immediately after the pillar of cloud of the Lord left Miriam's skin is described as "white as snow". The appearance of white as snow was actually the indicator that someone was healed of the disease and meant they were clean.
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:02 AM   #19
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Here’s what Ron and his defenders should have said:
I’m sorry. I was wrong. We were wrong. My words toward my wife were harsh and incendiary and I totally understand why they were received as they were. I should have realized that whatever point I was trying to make would be lost.
We are doing a particular thing here on this thread, and elsewhere on this forum. My posts about shepherdingwords are written to break down the statements of the LC and show what they really say. Others are doing that too. Nell’s post here are actually words for the LC leaders what a healthy and humble statement would look like. It reveals the bar, the standard that should be expected from them. (I hope they will develop the wisdom to take advantage of this grace through Nell’s offering a template they could easily follow).

My main hope and prayer is that this will help lurkers. Those current LCer’s secretly reading this forum who are gradually shifting their paradigm. I hope it helps them to break out of the haze that comes over their minds to confuse and almost bewitch them whenever the familiar wording and concepts reach out at them, through statements issued by the LSM wordsmiths. The style of speaking, and use of key words are so familiar, and a person is so conditioned to not be able to process the statements critically. ie, there is an ingrained conditioned response to key words and phrases (like the word ‘proper’) that can disempower the questioning LCer’s mind. The extent to which the person’s mind has been dominated by this style of speaking determines how hard this is to battle. It’s a form of ‘fear-based, mind-control programming’. We are breaking it down for them. I hope it is working.

Nell’s post again: to repent imputes value to the person who has been wronged. A rightful value, an attempt to restore them, through retracting the intention behind the injustice they suffered. Repenting is a practical expression of love and respect towards the ones mistreated. I encourage any LC lurker reading this to repeat-read (in the vein of pray-read!) Nell’s suggestion of what a true shepherd would say to his flock. To get a hold in their heart of what honour they should expect to receive from the LSM. Any person with shame-based processing will take time and repetition to assimilate this as shame can feel familiar and safe. Hating yourself can feel holy, I know, I used to be there, but it is actually staying stuck in toxic mud. I hope and pray for people to dare to allow themselves to grow and form a rightful value for themselves through the Holy Spirit and these posts.

also, thanks to those adding alumination to the story of Aron and Miriam. very interesting and things to ponder. that she was cleansed by Gods chastening feels right. His correcting comes from His grace and is always to restore. even if it is a type of things to come, it still needed to make sense to those there at the time, I believe.
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:08 AM   #20
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Default Re: They Actually Try to Defend the Way Ron Kangas Spoke About his Wife

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We are doing a particular thing here on this thread, and elsewhere on this forum.

My main hope and prayer is that this will help lurkers. Those current LCer’s secretly reading this forum who are gradually shifting their paradigm. I hope it helps them to break out of the haze that comes over their minds to confuse and almost bewitch them whenever the familiar wording and concepts reach out at them, through statements issued by the LSM wordsmiths. The style of speaking, and use of key words are so familiar, and a person is so conditioned to not be able to process the statements critically. ie, there is an ingrained conditioned response to key words and phrases (like the word ‘proper’) that can disempower the questioning LCer’s mind. The extent to which the person’s mind has been dominated by this style of speaking determines how hard this is to battle. It’s a form of ‘fear-based, mind-control programming’. We are breaking it down for them. I hope it is working.
Each of us must learn how to unlock the shackles which bind our own minds to the false authority usurped by the Blendeds at LSM. For me personally, this happened while I was reading John Ingalls' account Speaking the Truth in Love back in 2005.

How ironic is it that every stage of the so-called "Recovery" also required the same unshackling of mental authoritarian strongholds gripping the genuine seekers of God Himself? Firstly, read the Gospel of John carefully and one can readily ascertain the false authority imprisoning those who met the Savior Himself. Those folks lived in morbid fear of what the Jewish leaders would do to the followers of Jesus. Jesus told them that He was the Door, the door out of their prison, the door into green pastures. Following Him always leads us into freedom of heart.

Consider the inner torment and struggles of the reformer Martin Luther. On a miniature scale, some of our own journeys matched his. Luther had access to the word of God, and began to see thru the lies and falsehoods of Roman traditions. Still mentally entangled to Papal authority, as a priest he made a pilgrimage to Rome, the "holy" city. There he saw the filth of corruption, prostitution, lawlessness, and he was thoroughly shaken within. God used that trip to free Luther. Likewise, many of us needed to read about the corruptions in the Lee family -- deception, immorality, abuses, filthy lucre, and more -- in order for us to be freed within from the bondage of authoritarian schemes and strongholds controlling us and imprisoning our minds to their system of error.

The sad tragedy of recent Recovery history is that every expulsion of false authority -- whether Darby, Nee, or Lee -- eventually became a far worse authoritarian scheme than the one they rejected. This is why Recovery leaders are so keen on rewriting history, otherwise the membership might learn and reject what has happened in their midst. There was real liberty back in the days of Elden Hall, but today those liberties are gone. Of course, some do learn, and speak their conscience on behalf of the children of God, but those that do must be slandered and branded as rebellious, leprous, ambitious, divisive, "man of death," etc.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:54 AM   #21
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Each of us must learn how to unlock the shackles which bind our own minds to the false authority usurped by the Blendeds at LSM.
What is really interesting with many of the current events in the LC is that a lot of these statements being made by Ron and others are fairly straight-forward as to what is being said. For example, the statement that Ron made about his wife is not something that normal people would interpret to be anything different than what he said.

So when shepherdingwords.com puts a spin on it, they're not really fooling anyone, even those in the LC. What it really boils down to is that the blendeds are doing/speaking a lot of questionable things, and I would think that people in the LC are at least somewhat aware of that. For people in the LC, it's mainly a matter of how such actions get rationalized. I think people in the LC are willing to ignore the obvious if they feel there is enough rationalization for what is happening.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:10 AM   #22
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Each of us must learn how to unlock the shackles which bind our own minds to the false authority usurped by the Blendeds at LSM. For me personally, this happened while I was reading John Ingalls' account Speaking the Truth in Love back in 2005.
It’s not just recent Recovery history. It goes back to Luther. His early history is marvelous, but his end and that of his most ardent “Lutheran” followers was horrible, including deplorable filth-filled lambasting of some of his Christian brothers and of the Jews. The last were used by the Nazis (in spite of Luther’s early ministry to the contrary.

The lesson? Don’t build Christ’s Eklesia on the so called “pillars”, build it on Christ, the cornerstone, and his apostles who laid the foundation in the first place.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:26 AM   #23
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It’s not just recent Recovery history. It goes back to Luther. His early history is marvelous, but his end and that of his most ardent “Lutheran” followers was horrible, including deplorable filth-filled lambasting of some of his Christian brothers and of the Jews. The last were used by the Nazis (in spite of Luther’s early ministry to the contrary.

The lesson? Don’t build Christ’s Eklesia on the so called “pillars”, build it on Christ, the cornerstone, and his apostles who laid the foundation in the first place.
Amen to this! Luther went off course at times, speaking anti-semitic epithets actually used centuries later by Hitler's propaganda apparatus. Luther refused to work with other reformers like Zwingli and Calvin over the superstitions surrounding the Eucharist. (Now doesn't that sound like Darby, Nee, and Lee?) I'm not taking anything away from Martin Luther, but elevating him to the status of the "First MOTA of the Recovery" is purely self-serving revisionist church history.

And let me take this a step further. As I was de-toxing from my decades in the Recovery, I came to the conclusion that without second source corroboration, all church history I had ever learned inside the LC's had to be discarded. All of it was twisted and skewed to serve a false narrative. To use today's vernacular, it was all "fake news."

Take this quote by Goebbells, the NAZI propagandist, and substitute the "Recovery" for the "State:"
Quote:
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Does this not explain recent Blended actions, messages, and websites?
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:30 PM   #24
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Amen to this! Luther went off course at times, speaking anti-semitic epithets actually used centuries later by Hitler's propaganda apparatus. Luther refused to work with other reformers like Zwingli and Calvin over the superstitions surrounding the Eucharist. (Now doesn't that sound like Darby, Nee, and Lee?) I'm not taking anything away from Martin Luther, but elevating him to the status of the "First MOTA of the Recovery" is purely self-serving revisionist church history.

And let me take this a step further. As I was de-toxing from my decades in the Recovery, I came to the conclusion that without second source corroboration, all church history I had ever learned inside the LC's had to be discarded. All of it was twisted and skewed to serve a false narrative. To use today's vernacular, it was all "fake news."

Take this quote by Goebbells, the NAZI propagandist, and substitute the "Recovery" for the "State:"
Does this not explain recent Blended actions, messages, and websites?
OH my. Yes!
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Old 12-30-2019, 06:00 PM   #25
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Hey brothers, why don't we just put a sock in our mouth and ask all the sisters out there what they think of what Ron Kangas spewed out in that meeting? I have a feeling that their expanded paraphrase would be even harsher than mine.

Sisters. Fire away!

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The Local Church turns believers into ones who speak harshly, think cruelly, and are hardened in heart towards fellow saints in Christ our Lord. The only thing Rons' speaking was lacking was truth, love, and edification of the body in Christ. Not too bad when I consider my own failures alongside theirs. I am not innocent of totally failing in what the Lord laid before us, the Christian commission.....love being the greatest. But I have to agree with Nell. Humble yourself before those you trespass against. Seek forgiveness in true repentance. I think that is what Paul was talking about, Christ being magnified in his (and our) weakness. The Lords' humility and love would be on display, in the saints who could confess, ''I was wrong''.
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:27 AM   #26
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The real question here is not whether the wife of Ron Kangas has any legitimate authority, but whether Ron has any legitimate authority in the body of Christ.
Good question, Ohio.

Here’s some of what our ol’ friend Matt Anderson has to say about the topic of authority as it relates to punishment.

Abstract

One of the subjects we can look at in the Word of God to help understand how much authority has been given to church leaders is (the subject of) punishment. If you have full authority over someone, then you will have the power to punish to ensure that your authority is established.

Admittedly, this is a somewhat unusual way to look at the topic of authority in the Bible. However, I believe a review of the subject of punishment as it relates to the Body of Christ and ones leading in the Body of Christ is very relevant.

There is one main question to consider that has two facets:

What authority to punish other believers is given to
a) other believers (i.e. siblings in Christ),
b) ones leading in the church?

(Emphasis added)

http://laymansfellowship.com/table-o...-in-the-bible/

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Old 12-31-2019, 07:56 AM   #27
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When it comes to "Authority" in the body of Christ, Ron Kangas at LSM loves to consider himself the present day Moses. Supposedly then RK has been called by God in the burning bush, conveyed 10 plagues on Pharoah and Egypt, has parted the Red Sea, has been to the mountain, has received the vision, has the glow of God on his face, has build God's house, and how dare anyone even criticize a stupid thing he does or says!

Only his little circle of blendeds take anything he says seriously. The entire body of Christ, on the other hand, would shake their heads and wonder if he was delusional, like a Jim Jones or a David Koresh.

But let's look at what the apostles have told us about authority in the church. Peter conveyed what Jesus regularly taught about never lording it over the church like the Gentiles rule their charge. In his instructions to both Timothy and Titus, Paul enumerated qualifications for both elders and deacons in all the churches. This is extremely significant. Paul never stated that leaders should be loyal yes-men or authoritative figures, owing allegiance to some fake headquarters. That would be the message from the super-apostles and the Judaizers.

Instead Paul mentions that elders should be moral, upright, and those who manage their own households well. Paul saw the urgent need for time-tested and proven men of character to lead the church. Paul saw that each church needed men to exercise the same traits of authority exhibited in healthy homes. Elders were to be the same shepherding fathers and teachers in the church that they were with their own families. Just as overly authoritative fathers are failures in their own homes, authoritative elders are damaging to the house of God. What father would tell his children about their mother, what Ron Kangas said to the saints about his wife?
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Old 01-02-2020, 09:50 PM   #28
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The apostles had authority and could be severe if they had too, but they did everything they could to not be severe first, and only very reluctanty after three warnings. https://biblehub.com/bsb/2_corinthians/13.htm.

Severity was not the apostles M.O. Gentleness was. I’m convinced that a spirit of severity is perhaps “the problem of problems” in “The Recovery” and was passed on from exclusive Brethren leaders, through M.E Barber to Watchman Nee, on to Witness Lee, and continues in Blended Bro’s today. Lord help them and me to repent and change!
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:46 PM   #29
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I grew up in this church. It took tremendous courage to #walkaway @ 18. I have spent many hours to re-write my brain from the deleterious effects of this wicked cult.

As a woman, I was diminished and treated as a second class citizen. Taught that I was nothing, had no value, was separated from my sexual nature which I severely repressed. I was taught that I would have an arranged marriage some day. I was taught never to question the teachings, to be 100% obedient to all the adults in the church. The older women teach the younger women how to be afraid, how to hate themselves, how to be very afraid of people not in the church, how to hate their bodies, how to not turn into Eve, Jezebel and be more like Esther.
Dear friends. It would seem the idea that a woman is ‘nothing’, stated in the words of Ron Kangas, may indicate more than him just ‘shooting his (most venerated and perfected) mouth off’. I found the reference above in a thread ‘A Sister’s Testimony’ amongst the ‘Introductions and Testimonies’ sub-heading on this forum. It repeats RK’s words on shepherdingwords.com, but before they were posted there, before he spoke them too I think.

I find it interesting that her words indicate RK was indeed speaking of the policy of the local churches regarding the value taught to women. I think it may have been aron or Ohio posted somewhere, amongst many testimonies, patterns emerge. Those patterns reveal what is really there.

let this be another testimony to add to the exposure of their internal orthodoxy of the belief that 'women are nothing.'
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