Post Traumatic Church Syndrome

[zeek]

The purposes of this thread* are:

1.Acknowledge that PTCS is real
2.Acknowledge that healing is possible
3.Share purposes and paths to recovery
4.Share resources for healing and recovery
5.Share positive ways to engage spiritually that have worked for us
6.Support one another with love.

Come here to support and be supported, NOT for debate or divisive discussion--theological or otherwise. There are many hurting people here, so we have a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy for attacking another member of the group. Self-promoting posts as well as products/services are not welcome here.

Here's an article to give you a better idea what PTCS is:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithfo...-yes-its-real/

* adapted from PTCS FB page.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Come here to support and be supported, NOT for debate or divisive discussion--theological or otherwise.

So this is the brotherly love thread ... the church in Philadelphia cure for PTCS.

I guess I've got PTCS. When I go to church I learn what the word eternity means ... as in, when will this ever end? It's going on forever.

Is that one of the symptoms of PTCS? I didn't read anything about it.

I think I need a hug.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

So this is the brotherly love thread ... the church in Philadelphia cure for PTCS.

I guess I've got PTCS. When I go to church I learn what the word eternity means ... as in, when will this ever end? It's going on forever.

Is that one of the symptoms of PTCS? I didn't read anything about it.

I think I need a hug.

A lot of the stuff that drew me to the local church in the first place is the stuff that makes me stay away from churches altogether now.

[TLFisher]

One of the symptoms I have seen in PTCS is the reliance on the misapplication of 1 Corinthians 14:26.
The result is LCM: all or nothing.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So this is the brotherly love thread ... the church in Philadelphia cure for PTCS.

I guess I've got PTCS. When I go to church I learn what the word eternity means ... as in, when will this ever end? It's going on forever.

Is that one of the symptoms of PTCS? I didn't read anything about it.

I think I need a hug.

Let's all send awareness an e-hug.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Terry

One of the symptoms I have seen in PTCS is the reliance on the misapplication of 1 Corinthians 14:26.
The result is LCM: all or nothing.

Can you elaborate on this? I don't know what you mean.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by zeek

Can you elaborate on this? I don't know what you mean.

Ones who have spent years or decades in the local churches are used to the format of "everyone speaking". Even with non-LSM local churches there appears to be a time for an open floor. In most non-denominational and denominational Christianity that is not the case. Only one giving a message is a pastor whose basis is from an accredited seminary. This is foreign coming from an LC background and usually vilified as clergy/laity.
As a result brothers/sisters who find themselves former members as so conditioned against non-LSM churches they don't want to meet anywhere else.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Terry

Ones who have spent years or decades in the local churches are used to the format of "everyone speaking". Even with non-LSM local churches there appears to be a time for an open floor. In most non-denominational and denominational Christianity that is not the case. Only one giving a message is a pastor whose basis is from an accredited seminary. This is foreign coming from an LC background and usually vilified as clergy/laity.
As a result brothers/sisters who find themselves former members as so conditioned against non-LSM churches they don't want to meet anywhere else.

I see what you mean. I came to think that the LSM had other covert ways of controlling the meetings even though they allowed for member participation. But, can you explain how the LSM way is a misapplication of 1 Corinthians 14:26?

[OBW]

Seems to me that 1 Cor 14:26 is not really the source of the issue. In v 26, Paul is essentially laying out the issue. When they come together, everyone has something to add to the meeting. What Paul has described could easily become a three-ring circus.

So he lays some ground rules. The following verses provide a basis for limiting the participation.

Only two or three speak in tongues and only if there is someone to interpret.

Only two or three prophets to speak.

And what follows in that portion is related to the first part (in v 29) that puts a limit on prophets. It then continues on within the discussion of the two or three speaking to state that if one who is seated has a revelation, he should stand to speak, and the one already speaking give way. But what is not clear is whether the "one seated" is intended to be within the context of the two or three prophets, or the congregation in general. But then the following verse (v 31) goes on to state that "all can prophesy." But doesn't that just kick v 29 in the teeth? What is the purpose of saying that 2 or 3 should be allowed (even assigned) to prophesy then open the floor to everyone? From my perspective, no purpose at all. All of the verses from 29 through 33 are contextually about one subject, and that is the orderly manner in which the 2 or 3 prophets speak. The "all" that can speak are all the prophets that were assigned in the first place, not the entire congregation (which, BTW, would not all be given the gift of prophecy according to 1 Cor 12).

Now I may be a little presumptuous to say "assign" in terms of the prophets who speak. But even if there is no assignment, it is clear that not everyone with the gift of prophecy was included — unless there were only 2 or 3 such persons present in the first place. Somehow there was intended to be a regulation as to the participation of prophecy. Whether it was directed by the elders or simply the Spirit, somehow Paul expected it to happen.

Now understand that I do not oppose meetings in which anyone has the opportunity to speak. Sort of like the old testimony meeting (I am thinking from days in the AOG, not the LCM). I do not think that they are a necessity, or a mandate. And surely 1 Cor 14 is not talking about those. But I am not opposed to them.

If the LCM missaplied 1 Cor 14:26 and following, it was in the insistence that everyone could prophesy. The more recent task of putting limitations on those times, whether by having little bells or whatnot is not necessarily wrong. It surely slaps their old ways in the face. And may not be carried out in the best way.

And maybe it is that the general nature of the meetings now is evidence that it was more about liking ways (the older ways) than being so spiritual. We really liked getting to stand and speak (and get a lot of enthusiastic "amens" to build our personal esteem). Taking that away would be a kick in the teeth. But was it ever the "God ordained way"? I doubt it.

[zeek]

It seems to me that forbidding church members to speak is worse problem than the confusion that may result from allowing free speech. On the other hand, using social pressure to limit speaking to parroting the MOTA's opinions, as was practiced in the LCM is repressive as well. I think Paul's recommendations far from being church law were simply his pragmatic way of seeking middle ground.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by zeek

It seems to me that forbidding church members to speak is worse problem than the confusion that may result from allowing free speech. On the other hand, using social pressure to limit speaking to parroting the MOTA's opinions, as was practiced in the LCM is repressive as well. I think Paul's recommendations far from being church law were simply his pragmatic way of seeking middle ground.

As OBW says, a misapplication of ! Corinthians 14:26. Though I welcome the concept of having a time for an open floor, I am also for letting the teachers teach, minister, or pastor.
In the LC/LSM, their mode of prophesy is not to give testimonies, not to prophesy according to the Word, but to prophesy according to ministry publications.
If I was a brother meeting in a local church who refused to use any ministry publications and prophesied according to the Bible, I can guarantee in a matter of weeks, I would be reprimanded and requested a time with the elders in the "fellowship room".