We should just sense life and not discern right and wrong?

[Former LC member]

This audio link of a Blended Brother speaking makes disturbing listening:
http://www.blendedbody.com/_cl/_audi...servidores.mp3

On this recording, Steve Issit is slandered and called an evil man.
The focus is on persuading the saints not to read any works sent to them that are critical of LSM, especially from Steve Issit.
I was flabbergasted to hear that this 'learned brother's' sole justification for slandering this man, is that his works make this brother 'feel' death. Is this what we have degraded to? We discern everything on how we feel and direct the saints to do likewise? Apparently we are not supposed to judge what is right or wrong. As far as I know from, dare I say ,GODS WORD, that the only thing that discerns IS Gods Word. See Hebrews 4:12. 'The Word of God is living and active[yes, it is living, not other people's writings] and active, sharper than a two edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

So before the brothers tell us how to act, according to their personal thoughts of whether it is life, maybe they should subject themselves and their thoughts to the Word of God and direct us to do the same. Only the Word of God can help us to discern whether our thoughts and feelings ARE the same as God's.

[UntoHim]

This recording is from this website:
http://www.digitalfxla.com/_blog/?p=195
This recording is apparently the 5th in a series of 6 messages

The 6th and final message seems to be about the "Defense and Confirmation Project".
Somebody needs to listen to a bit of this recording. I have no idea who is the speaker in this one.

Here is a translation:
"Days 18 to the 20 of January of 2008 the Conference was carried out the International in the city of Ambato, in Ecuador. The speaker is brother Ron Kangas. The brothers in that locality wish to share with all the saints the messages given in that one occasion. Thanks to the brothers of Cali, Colombia to cooperate in obtaining these messages. We recommended to them strongly that they listen to the content of these messages, when hearing these words, we felt that the Head is providing us Its loving care when replacing to us with the truth"

-------------------------------------------

[Ohio]

For some reason I don't have the "necessary plug-in" in order to listen to this.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For some reason I don't have the "necessary plug-in" in order to listen to this.

Usually you are given the choice to download the necessary plug-in, otherwise....

Ohio and others:
You may want to go to the site:
http://www.digitalfxla.com/_blog/?p=195

Then go to the individual file (in this case under to category of "MP3" category) RIGHT CLICK on the mouse, then select "Save Link As", then hit "Save".

I assume you have a media player of some sort and it should automatically play the saved file in whatever media player you have.

[Norm]

It sounds like (message 6 Presentacion.de.libros) could be Dan Sady of Fullerton who serves with DCP.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Joanna Tysoe

This audio link of a Blended Brother speaking makes disturbing listening:
http://www.blendedbody.com/_cl/_audi...servidores.mp3

On this recording, Steve Issit is slandered and called an evil man.
The focus is on persuading the saints not to read any works sent to them that are critical of LSM, especially from Steve Issit.
I was flabbergasted to hear that this 'learned brother's' sole justification for slandering this man, is that his works make this brother 'feel' death. Is this what we have degraded to? We discern everything on how we feel and direct the saints to do likewise? Apparently we are not supposed to judge what is right or wrong. As far as I know from, dare I say ,GODS WORD, that the only thing that discerns IS Gods Word. See Hebrews 4:12. 'The Word of God is living and active[yes, it is living, not other people's writings] and active, sharper than a two edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I too was flabbergasted. Is this the speaking of a brother with spiritual authority? Certainly not. For accuracy sake these are the adjectives Ron Kangas used:
"One of the most evil of these persons, his name is Steve Isitt. He is a man of death. And, he is very active in a negative way."

Later in the conference Ron had this to say:

"Oh, this man of death, Steve Isitt"

I had two trains of thought when reflecting on Ron's speaking:

1. It's one thing if Ron or any other blended brother or blended co-worker finds Steve's writings to be negative. It's another matter to assume they know Steve so well. Please brothers excercise some discernment. Learn to discern the writing from the brother. Just because Steve's writings may be negative means Steve is.

2. What exactly is Ron basing his speaking on? If he's basing it on Steve's writing, okay. Go back and re-read the verse Joanna used in her post. If it's based on what other brother's have said, I ask this:

Have any of these brothers ever spent time with Steve? Not likely. If any brother had, he would likely be perplexed why a brother so positive for the ministry can also be critical. It's not according to our concepts.
As in Ron's case of speaking so carelessly, that has also been our past. Brothers have been so quick to condemn brothers who left in the late 80's without being appraised of the situation.
Just because a brother says so, does that make his speaking according to the Tree of Life? Discern with your mind through your spirit according to the Word and not according to our peers.

Instead of condeming brothers because their concepts are not according to the ministry, remember:

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." John 15:12

Terry

[Cal]

All I can say is this message by Kangas is so competely stupid that anyone who takes it seriously has bigger problems than I can solve.

I kept hoping the translator would cut him off and say "Usted debe pensar que somos realmente ignorantes."*





* You must think we are really ignorant.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Joanna Tysoe

I was flabbergasted to hear that this 'learned brother's' sole justification for slandering this man, is that his works make this brother 'feel' death. Is this what we have degraded to? We discern everything on how we feel and direct the saints to do likewise? Apparently we are not supposed to judge what is right or wrong.

Dear sister Joanna, I chuckled when I read your reaction here.

Do you realize that all the recent quarantines of all the GLA and Brazil were based on this same "feeling," or shall I say "taste." Witness Lee firstly, and now Ron Kangas are telling all the LC's how they should "feel," what the ministry should "taste" like. These alone are the proper "guidelines" for all the faithful to "discern" the situation by.

Throw out the Bible. Throw out common sense. Throw out the views of the Christian public. Throw out prayer. Throw out righteousness. Throw out your conscience. All of these may deceive you. They are not trustworthy. So they have taught us. The only real "safeguard" is the "sense of life" as now taught by Ron Kangas.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Then go to the individual file (in this case under to category of "MP3" category) RIGHT CLICK on the mouse, then select "Save Link As", then hit "Save".

I assume you have a media player of some sort and it should automatically play the saved file in whatever media player you have.

Thanks for the 'puter help. Don't you just love that right clicker?

I downloaded "msj1" the first message, and it is Ron Kangas speaking.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Igzy

All I can say is this message by Kangas is so completely stupid that anyone who takes it seriously has bigger problems than I can solve.

Here's the one I want to ask and actually I asked it before and no one had an answer for me.

WHO is Ron Kangas?

Who has commended his speaking to me?

When I was among them, back in the late 80's, I never heard this name.

So many others, Benson, Minoru, Andrew, I know them. I know who they are and where they came from and why they are acknowledged as leaders.

I do not know the Ron Kangas back story. He criticizes the Internet speakers on the basis that there is no context within which to discern the different speakings. Such discernment is not actually based upon LIFE, of course, completely undercutting his entire argument. Still, within the discourse concerning good and evil that he participates in while pretending to do otherwise (for his speaking surely was nothing but death to MY hearing and I'd ask all the listeners to judge this for themselves before the Lord) can someone please tell me why this voice that I have now heard from the Internet is worthy of more weight than that of those he denounces?

Igzy, you will surely recognize this hidden appeal to authority for the farce that it is. Help me out here to at least understand what the Kangas claim to fame is? Is he a late-comer who has been anointed by a Blended Brothers pronouncement? A review of the evidence available on the Internet indicates that he has been around since at least the late 1970s and the historical focus of his "ministry" has been Local Church polemics:

• Mind bending or mind renewing?: A reply to The mindbenders, by J. Sparks
  By Ron Kangas
  Published by , 1977
  
• The Truth Concerning the Ultimate Goal of God's Economy: A Refutation of J.S.'s Slanderous Accusations
  By Living Stream Ministry Staff, Ron Kangas, Living Stream Ministry, Living Stream Ministry
  Published by Living Stream Ministry, 1994
  ISBN 0870838148, 9780870838149
  37 pages
  
• The Triune God: A Testimony of Our Belief and Experience
  By Ron Kangas
  Published by Living Stream Ministry, 1976
  27 pages
  
• The Truth Concerning Salvation
  By Ron Kangas, Robert Passantino
  A refutation of the tract by Robert Passantino, Witness Lee and the Local Church, published by Christian Research Institute.
  Published by Kangas, 197?
  18 pages

Apparently he moved to greater prominence after the A&C project began. Looks like he started out there teaching against reincarnation heresies...
http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/1996/03/96_03_sd.pdf

It's so sad and telling that such a one has risen to such prominence in the denomination.

Can anyone suggest a spiritually relevant commendation of the teachings of Kangas? I never got one and I never have received his teachings as a consequence. Does anyone know what he was up to in the late 1980s that I never heard about him? Can anyone testify that they have received ANYTHING of eternal value from this one?

Thanks.

[UntoHim]

Any of you out there who get a little squeamish when they hear the word "cult" applied to the Local Church need to listen to Ron Kangas on this tape. It even gave me, a grizzled ole LC veteran, the creeps I guess we should not be surprised to hear this kind of venom coming from a man who once proclaimed that one could be "in the church but not in the Body".....

but calling a brother in Christ "a man of death"? Really, Ron, are you that desperate to protect the name, legacy and myths surrounding Witness Lee and the religion he invented? I can't begin to tell how much this kind of speaking makes you look like a blind follower of a man.

...and just couldn't resist taking a shot at those original "concerned brothers" from the 80s, could ya Ron? That all took place back when most of these South American brothers were in grade school, but ya just can't seem to let it go, can you? And why do you bring up Eldon Hall?? These guys in South America wouldn't know Eldon Hall from the Taj Mahal...and why should they care about some old religious relic from a distant land in the distant past? You're grasping at straws, Dr. Kangas, and you're grasping for relevance. If you have to dig that far back to the old glory days in LA I feel really sorry for you.

What Kangas doesn't seem to realize (or probably just refuses to realize) is that Steve I is just one of many brothers down through the years who have expressed concerns regarding the direction of the LC movement - he just happened to come along during the information age - which has made it impossible for people like Witness Lee and Ron Kangas to exercise information control by pulling the wool over the eyes of the sheep. Oooooppps...I think everybody sees who the real wolf is now.

[ABrotherInChrist]

Originally Posted by YP0534

Here's the one I want to ask and actually I asked it before and no one had an answer for me.
WHO is Ron Kangas?
Who has commended his speaking to me?

Ron Kangas is one of the senior editors at LSM. Up until a certain time, I think he may have operated mainly in the background, although he has been very active lately both in the bi-annual trainings and in conferences. He is also the one Blended Brother who comes out with the most objectionable quotes.

In my mind, he is out of his gourd.

I do not know the Ron Kangas back story. He criticizes the Internet speakers on the basis that there is no context within which to discern the different speakings. Such discernment is not actually based upon LIFE, of course, completely undercutting his entire argument. Still, within the discourse concerning good and evil that he participates in while pretending to do otherwise (for his speaking surely was nothing but death to MY hearing and I'd ask all the listeners to judge this for themselves before the Lord) can someone please tell me why this voice that I have now heard from the Internet is worthy of more weight than that of those he denounces?

I can't fill in his back-story, sorry. I've heard that he got a degree at Princeton (in theology perhaps, I forget). But past that, I don't know too much.

Igzy, you will surely recognize this hidden appeal to authority for the farce that it is. Help me out here to at least understand what the Kangas claim to fame is? Is he a late-comer who has been anointed by a Blended Brothers pronouncement? A review of the evidence available on the Internet indicates that he has been around since at least the late 1970s and the historical focus of his "ministry" has been Local Church polemics:

My understanding is that just about every book that LSM has put out has Ron's handprints on it. He is in charge of smoothing Lee's words into the edited printed version. He's been around for quite some time.

I wouldn't commend his teachings to anyone unless they are very spiritually strong and able to see right through his double-speak and darkness. His teachings have led to the main problems I have with the LC.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by ABrotherInChrist

My understanding is that just about every book that LSM has put out has Ron's handprints on it. He is in charge of smoothing Lee's words into the edited printed version. He's been around for quite some time.

Lord Jesus.

If that is true, all of the confusion makes much more sense.

There's your real hidden reef, brothers....

[Cal]

Ron Kangas was the original editor of Witness Lee's Life-Study messages. I'm not sure if he edited anything of Lee's before the Life-Studies, but he did all of the early ones.

He was some kind of expert in English, and his claim to fame was his impeccable wording. To his credit I remember he orginally tried to push Lee toward using words according to their actual meaning, instead of redefining meanings. But apparently he rolled over on that one, too.

I remember everyone marveling at the wonderful lingusitic construction of the Life-Studies in the early days, and the thought was that Kangas was a kind of semi-genius for making them so simple and readable. (And bland for that matter. If Kangas were God I'm afraid the universe would be colored in shades of gray. But I digress.)

Anyway, I'm not sure when he became a teacher. But let's just say there are better ones to choose from.

[countmeworthy]

Lord Jesus.

Amen. And I mean it sincerely..in total agreement.

If that is true, all of the confusion makes much more sense.

Now THAT's a play on words...CONFUSION making sense!
But it explains why there is soo much confusion in the LSM/LC!

There's your real hidden reef, brothers

HEY!! Don't leave us sisters out YP0!

Good to have ya back!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Ron Kangas was the original editor of Witness Lee's Life-Study messages. I'm not sure if he edited anything of Lee's before the Life-Studies, but he did all of the early ones.

He was some kind of expert in English, and his claim to fame was his impeccable wording. To his credit I remember he orginally tried to push Lee toward using words according to their actual meaning, instead of redefining meanings. But apparently he rolled over on that one, too.
I remember everyone marveling at the wonderful lingusitic construction of the Life-Studies in the early days, and the thought was that Kangas was a kind of semi-genius for making them so simple and readable. (And bland for that matter. If Kangas were God I'm afraid the universe would be colored in shades of gray. But I digress.)

Anyway, I'm not sure when he became a teacher. But let's just say there are better ones to choose from.

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING !!!! I was not as literate as I am today when I was in the LC. I didn't pay much attention to the writing as I did to the 'speaking'. But over time, I noticed the writing as well as the 'speaking' was off kilter. (Phrases like "These ones" and other inuendos bugged me.)

Here is a quote from the book "Vision of the Age" by Witness Lee...page 8:

"Among the serving ONES (my emphasis on ones), the two most impostant groups of people are the elders and the co-workers."

(I'm going off topic for a sec but 'FEEL' to express myself here: Being a sister, according to the Lee ministry, I don't qualify to be an elder..or a co-worker..thus I ain't important to that ministry..thus they shouldn't have a problem with me not being in the LSM/LC.

Thankfully, I AM important TO GOD! I AM A DAUGHTER (& a Son ..for there are no males or females in Christ)...of THE KING. I AM ROYALTY...a king and PRIEST to the most High God. Seems to me I am very important to GOD!...and not only 'me'...but each and every person reading this post is VERY IMPORTANT TO GOD! Each and everyone here is a king and priest of the Most High GOD. We ought to be thinking as if we're important to GOD ..walking in Newness of Life..dressed in our kingly & priestly robes. We ARE important to GOD!

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I'm quite alright not being an elder or a "co-worker" in the LC system.

Here's another quote:
We have to serve God according to the vision of the age.

According to WHAT??
I serve GOD according to the WORD of GOD...thank You very much.

"Today many Christians criticize us, saying 'You are too proud'. pg 16.

Baloney...most Christians have never even heard of the LSM/LC!

Pg 20:
Today in Christianity, many Christians claim that they are spiritual, but they do not like to listen to others. Even if Paul were here, they might not listen to him.
WHAT?? The true blue believers listen to counsel, fellowship with each other, respect an anointed Pastor, Teacher, fellow brother/sister in Christ.

Many Christians & Christian leaders are criticizing the Laodician church...and the carnal church. But terms like "Today in Christianity" is an LSM/LC term. No one to my knowledge uses those exact words in Christianity.

I didn't quite get into the writing of the messages but I recall being disturbed by the way the Life Study messages were written. They had a different 'tone' to them.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

...and just couldn't resist taking a shot at those original "concerned brothers" from the 80s, could ya Ron?
What Kangas doesn't seem to realize (or probably just refuses to realize) is that Steve I is just one of many brothers down through the years who have expressed concerns regarding the direction of the LC movement -

What Ron Kangas failed to realize is his condemning speaking in not much different than what we read about Saul of Tarsus in the Book of Acts.

Ron had this to say about one of the concerned brothers from the 1980's:

"I would like to ask him, after you wrote that letter to Brother Lee, and after you began to speak a certain way, what is your spiritual situation? How would you compare it with your situation when you were in Elden Hall?"

The recovery doesn't enhance nor diminish a person's spiritual situation. It's all about what they do with their personal time with the Lord. How would Ron know what this brother's spiritual situation is? Has Ron had fellowship with this brother?

Terry

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I didn't quite get into the writing of the messages but I recall being disturbed by the way the Life Study messages were written. They had a different 'tone' to them.

I made a line by line comparison shortly before my exodus between the local video training and the printed messages which had already made it to me.

Faults with Lee's teachings aside, there was something subtly coloring the printed messages which anyone could discern by close comparison. Points Lee made were often omitted entirely and editorial modifications occasionally turned his points on their head. The net result is to greatly increase the percentage of leavening one has to deal with when reading LSM publications. Those with a steady diet of this, without discernment to recognize the influence of this invisible hand, are quite naturally led astray by such subtlety.

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Good to have ya back!

Not really back-back but this thread touched something quite important to me so that I bothered to read it and then the denunciation of Steve I. as someone without authority suggested that I should again ask my question about who has commended Kangas' teachings to the saints.

I would also like to add that, apparently contrary to current Local Church doctrine, our call before the Lord includes growth in life unto the ability to discern good from evil:

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Anyone who teaches not to care for discernment of good and evil is teaching contrary to the full revelation of the scriptures and is beguiling you to remain a babe in Christ, the favored technique of all oppressive clerics throughout the ages.

Greetings to you, CMW, and all.

[djohnson]

Apparently Kangas was a lackey of Witness Lee's for decades. He was once an a leader when they "took the ground in Detroit" the first time. But then they gave back the ground and dispersed. Later Chu sent some from Cleveland to "retake the ground". I guess during the interval there was no church in Detroit? (Sidebar: Here's my conclusion about the ecclesiology of the LCS: if you have a physical church building in a city = you are the church in that city. You can even all live in other cities but if the physical building you visit once or twice a week is in a city then you are the church there.)

Late Kangas became Lee's chief editor at his publishing company. After many years of brown nosing Lee he was obviously qualified to be the mouthpiece of the Blended Prattlers.

[ABrotherInChrist]

Originally Posted by YP0534

Anyone who teaches not to care for discernment of good and evil is teaching contrary to the full revelation of the scriptures and is beguiling you to remain a babe in Christ, the favored technique of all oppressive clerics throughout the ages.

Thank you so much for the scripture reference. I had been lookiing for that verse, but it was eluding me.

[Former LC member]

Wow! Thanks for that verse YP0534! I have always felt there was something fundamentally wrong with the doctrine of: We must eat from the tree of life, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This has always been used to stop us from developing our powers of discernment.
What I enjoy so much about this site, is that you can throw out a comment or question and everyone starts thumbing through their bibles for answers. [not looking through some dusty tome for the perceived wisdom of some man].
Amen, Countmeworthy,- we serve God according to the Word of God!
I don't have a lot of time to post much, but this site is always worthy of a good read and always "fills me with life"

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Joanna Tysoe

Wow! Thanks for that verse YP0534! I have always felt there was something fundamentally wrong with the doctrine of: We must eat from the tree of life, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This has always been used to stop us from developing our powers of discernment.

There is surely truth in the teaching that we must eat from the Tree of Life and not from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and I don't wish to be misunderstood. We definitely do need to tell the two apart but there would seem to be some problem in this regard on the part of those who have left behind their inner sense as "superstitious" at certain times but in turn allegedly rely upon such an alleged inner sense while denouncing others.

People can and do function merely with their minds only and formulate all sorts of peculiar, nonspiritual and unrighteous judgments in the name of discernment. Witness the message we are discussing. This is clearly in the realm of death and darkness and there are certainly many examples of this on the Internet. We do need to cleave to the proper tree and enjoy its most excellent fruit as we exercise our mental faculties and discernment over all the things in the world, including all of its religions.

But as we seek the Lord and follow His voice and feast upon His Holy Word and speak as we are led and touch Him in the Spirit and meditate upon the scriptures, we are exercising our faculties and eating the solid food. The consequence? The ability to discern good from evil. This is just what the Bible says.

In accordance with the Lord's wishes, we will become clever as serpents yet guileless as doves while we enjoy Christ as our constant spiritual source.

We need not man's natural teachings. The annointing lives in each of us.

The Spirit will lead you into all the reality.

What are we to do with these verses if we just need to play follow the leader?

[Suannehill]

This may be a little off the subject but it reminds me of denying our emotions.

I used to argue (with no effect) that I believe that my emotions function to love the Lord and others. With out it I'm..."sounding brass and clanging cymbals"...anyone hear brass today?
Sue

[Indiana]

Thanks JoAnna,

I have known about this tape for 2 weeks now and wanted to hold off on it being posted, but now it's been already posted on the other forum, so I'm glad it is also posted here.

I have been open with these men at LSM for a number of years now, as in this link to a letter I sent five years ago to Dan Towle, Francis Ball, and Chris Wilde.

http://www.twoturmoils.com/DanTowleD...ionLawsuit.pdf

As in any of my sincere attempts to fellowship over serious concerns, I was ignored. At the time of this letter I had not been on the internet with any writings, rather I had waited two years for them to respond. Now it has been eight years and one month without their response to needed fellowship in the Body.

As in this letter from 5 years ago, the main objective I still have today in addressing negative matters is that the matters might get cleared up! There would be a positive result if the leaders had a proper response. Repentances are clearly needed in our leadership. Brother Ron, we address the negative matters that there might be a positive result! Beginning with repentances unto LIFE!

And, we address the negative matters that you might again have opportunity to respond to the Body, that part of the Body you feel you have no need of and do not recognize.

Maybe David also thought Nathan was being negative toward him to say “You are that man!”, indicating something very negative about David that he needed to be clear up.

David didn’t say to Nathan, “you are eating from the wrong tree and I’m not getting life from your speaking.” David instead humbly cooperated with this member who brought him the knowledge of his wrong and repented unto LIFE, for him and among the people of God.

I like many of the posts especially where the uncovering of the overly-worked, warped, and improperly used concept of life vs death is expounded upon. (on both forums)

Steve Isitt

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Repentances are clearly needed in our leadership. Brother Ron, we address the negative matters that there might be a positive result! Beginning with repentances unto LIFE!

Steve and all,

No one will ever repent unless the Holy Spirit convicts the person's heart.

We can shout all we want "REPENT!!" And we all know it won't work. When someone has told us to REPENT...do we? Unless we are scared out of our wits, we won't repent...and then the question is "Are we truly repentant? Or did we repent 'cause we got caught? The BEST way, is for the Holy Spirit to convict us of our sin(s).

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Suannehill

This may be a little off the subject but it reminds me of denying our emotions.

I used to argue (with no effect) that I believe that my emotions function to love the Lord and others. With out it I'm..."sounding brass and clanging cymbals"...anyone hear brass today?
Sue

2 points I want to make:

1) Why were we ever 'taught'..and worst yet..believed emotions were not good to release? I'm sure they don't teach THAT anymore...
Here are some scriptures proving God grieves. ..The Spirit grieves, the Son grieves and God the Father and Creator grieves.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 11:35
Jesus wept.

Genesis 6:6 (KJ)
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Genesis 6:6 (Amplified)
And the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved at heart.

Genesis 6:6 (New Living Translation)
So the Lord was sorry he had ever made them and put them on the earth. It broke his heart.

2) Many in the leadership position have no heart. They never cry over those they were supposedly were built up with..those they worked soo closely with and have left the LC...Not just those in leadership..but those diehard people whose husbands/wives/kids are no longer in the LC. They left the LSM/LC..."too bad" for them is their attitude.

How sad. Boy..that has to break the Lord's heart.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Suannehill

This may be a little off the subject but it reminds me of denying our emotions.

I used to argue (with no effect) that I believe that my emotions function to love the Lord and others. With out it I'm..."sounding brass and clanging cymbals"...anyone hear brass today?
Sue

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

My human spirit is joined in love with the Spirit of God, who is Love, unto loving the saints, loving my neighbor, even loving my enemy.

In the universe, God has a plan and this plan has everything to do with His love for the people on the whole earth. Some exercise their strong mentalities to try to impress others with the excellence of their knowledge of God's Word. While in a sense it is good to know and share the Word, this is still far too low. It will capture some because you have cared enough to spend some time with them to tell them something they like to hear. But you speak about yourself as much as you speak about the Lord as you repeat so many high and scriptural things. Knowledge without Love is but sounding brass and clanging cymbals. Simply put, Love is the centrality and universality of the expression of God in Christ. For God so loved the world that He sent His only-begotten Son.

If I speak of Christ but do not speak of Love, I show how little I know God. God is Love. I have spent far too many years speaking of so many good and spiritual things and still I know nothing about the reality of God's Love.

For this I must once again repent.

[Indiana]

I remember Ron Kangas fondly as a brother who met in a Midwest church as I also did, and we gathered together often for conferences in those days. He wouldn’t remember me and does not know me now.

Bill Mallon and James Barber came to Detroit, where Ron was an elder, and they gave a conference there. Bill Mallon might have stayed in his home. These two prominent brothers were elders in LA and it was they who were close to Witness Lee, not Ron, at that time.

The churches looked forward to their visits, along with John Ingalls’ visits to the churches. Maybe Ron and Harry Ahlers came to Indianapolis when brother Lee came there, or when Ingalls and Barber came to give a conference. Tim Scroggins (from Detroit) was there. Don Rutledge, from Dallas, was there also.

At some point, Ron Kangas disappeared it seemed, and I found out later he had moved to Anaheim, and was editing life-studies. And, this he did for years, and years, which I personally feel I benefited from and have appreciated very much. At a certain point I wondered why Ron was not made an elder, which he was also probably wondering, but being the cerebral and bookish brother that he was, he was much used in the producing of literature.

After such a long period of time, I wondered if Ron was still in the church, I never saw him in videos or heard anything about him. I thought maybe he was lost in the late eighties turmoil. Then he emerged...A “saturated brother” partly from all the editing he did of Lee’s messages. But he didn’t emerge without having the same questions that troubled other brothers in Anaheim and other places. John Ingalls, who is very reluctant to say too much, told me in 2001 that Ron came to him for fellowship during the turmoil.

I would like to ask Ron Kangas, Why did you go to John? Why did Francis Ball tell me and Dan Leslie in 1990 that he almost left the church during the turmoil? His wife’s two sisters did leave, both having worked at LSM, where Ron worked.

Why did Andrew Yu say in Seattle that he almost left the church? He was the one replacing Philip Lee, and knew the troubles caused by him at Living Stream and among the churches.

(To be continued)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Indiana

I have known about this tape for 2 weeks now and wanted to hold off on it being posted, but now it's been already posted on the other forum, so I'm glad it is also posted here.

Indiana ... The conference had 6 messages ... were you referred to in all the messages?

Ron Kangas basically rose to prominence following the death of WL. He embarked on the conference circuit visiting many places. He is a fairly gifted teacher, but how said that he has exalted himself as judge of all things Christian. This started years ago with the periodical A&C, where he polished all of his critical "attack skills," and his latest target is our very own "Indiana Jones."

I have always said that LSM really never knew who their enemy was. For years they had considered "outside" Christians as the enemy. Recently, however, the enemy has been identified as former "insiders," including any and all saints who voice their "concerns."

[Indiana]

Here is the transcript in the link. I am mentioned four times in one message. That is all I know.

http://makingstraightthewayofthelord...riptKangas.pdf

(continued)
Ron had been in such a low profile, he was not a participating speaker in the Quarantine meetings of Bill Mallon, John Ingalls, and Joseph Fung, Anaheim, 1990. Maybe he edited the messages that made up The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion. Maybe not.

I do wonder if Ron realizes that the book on the "Fermentation" did not give life either. Many could testify of this, picking up the book, reading a few pages and getting “killed”, and setting it back down. This was especially so since it addressed in a negative way, formerly beloved elders, Mallon and Ingalls, and what was being said about them was not adding up.

Ron’s own book that he authored, with Kerry Robichaux, was not a book of life either (addressing mainly John Ingalls). Both publications were addressing negative matters, and both had the unmistakable objective of getting people onto the tree of the knowledge of good and evil so that they could learn and understand a turmoil that resulted in division.

I did the same thing. It is necessary to address negative matters for the truth’s sake, that there might be a positive result, repentance unto LIFE.

Ron: after much careful and thoughtful research, I addressed fully in writing the two books that I have mentioned and found them to be in grave error from cover to cover and libelous in content to the core. They are quite childish, in fact, as was your depiction of me in Ecuador. Your speakings were not of God, and either was The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion.

Francis Ball declared in an elders’ meeting in Pasadena 1988 that he was going to be like an ostrich with his head in the sand. This, you and all the brothers have done also.

This is why I and others need to speak.

See www.twoturmoils.com/Ostrich.pdf for a couple of windows into the truth by Francis in the Pasadena elders' meeting, and by Philip Lin, as reported by Paul Kerr.

[YP0534]

How blind indeed is someone who can utter such things:

"We have no way of controlling people. I expect Steve Isitt will write evil things until he dies..."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by YP0534

How blind indeed is someone who can utter such things: "We have no way of controlling people. I expect Steve Isitt will write evil things until he dies..."

For Ron Kangas to say this indicates that the LSM internet team and the DCP legal team have tried their best to "control" Steve Isitt, and to date have failed. Since the internet and this forum have no official publisher to file a lawsuit against, they cannot stop either this site, or Steve Isitt for his articles.

In the past, I have heard other LC leaders say they can't "control" anybody, only to later learn that they indeed did their best to try, both publicly and privately. Both Anaheim and Cleveland like to proclaim, "we never control anybody ... " All quarantines are attempts to "control" people who speak things or do things they cannot stop.

Originally Posted by Indiana

Francis Ball declared in an elders’ meeting in Pasadena 1988 that he was going to be like an ostrich with his head in the sand.

For the late Francis Ball to say this indicates that he KNEW BETTER. He just preferred to turn a blind eye to all the unrighteousnesses that had damaged the saints, so that the "program" promoted by "the ministry" would not "suffer." That is to say, "the ends justified the means," and he himself was a active participant in Rosemead in some of the ugly "means."

[YP0534]

Perhaps I was too obscure.

The statement against Isitt is in fact the exercise of such control.

I understand what Kangas meant to say.

The Lord's call is to hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.

He who has an ear to hear, let him hear it.

[Norm]

The moment you are glad to let others know any wrong done to you by your brother, that moment you judge him, and the moment you set yourself up as judge you are in a wrong, not a right way, where you will never see light in God's light.

Otto Stockmayer
Love in Action
1895

[djohnson]

Ohio they actually could sue Isitt for the articles but my guess is there is nothing libelous in the articles to sue about and further I doubt Isitt has deep pockets like HH and their insurers. So I don't think we're ever gonna see a $136 million lawsuit against Steve. Instead we'll just get prattling from the platform by the likes of Kangas & Co.

May I add: of all the ex LCS members it appears Steve has exercised the most patience in trying to deal directly with the yahoos at LSM. Their arrogant attitude towards him throughout the process is evident for all to see and Kangas' current babbling demonstrates that Isitt poses a real threat to their whole house-of-cards charade.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by djohnson

Ohio they actually could sue Isitt for the articles but my guess is there is nothing libelous in the articles to sue about and further I doubt Isitt has deep pockets like HH and their insurers. So I don't think we're ever gonna see a $136 million lawsuit against Steve. Instead we'll just get prattling from the platform by the likes of Kangas & Co.

I have heard that publishers bear ultimate responsibility for books, and since the internet has no publisher, so no lawsuit is possible. Case in point was Jim Moran.

Any lawyers who could confirm or dispute this?

[ABrotherInChrist]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have heard that publishers bear ultimate responsibility for books, and since the internet has no publisher, so no lawsuit is possible. Case in point was Jim Moran.

I am not a lawyer, but I see no reason that someone can't sue someone on the internet for libel. However:

• the person likely has nearly no money to take as an award if you win
• You'd have to PROVE that it was that person, and with the ease of faking identity on the internet, that would be tough
• as a large non-profit, LSM would definitely come across as a huge bully suing an individual, and this will likely affect the outcome.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have heard that publishers bear ultimate responsibility for books, and since the internet has no publisher, so no lawsuit is possible. Case in point was Jim Moran.

Any lawyers who could confirm or dispute this?

That's bad info, Ohio.

Sorry. I can't say too much (dang ethics rules).

But it must have been something else with Moran.

I don't know what.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ABrotherInChrist

• as a large non-profit, LSM would definitely come across as a huge bully suing an individual, and this will likely affect the outcome.

That hasn't stopped LSM in the past.

[Cal]

LSM wouldn't sue Steve Isitt because that would bring his embarassing (and truthful) claims fully into the public eye, and that's the last thing LSM wants. They know they can't prove wrong anything he says.

Trust me, they are behind the eight-ball on this one. Kangas's comment about Steve speaking until he dies makes that clear.

[TLFisher]

Well said Igzy. Our brothers at LSM/DCP can say many things about Steve, but they can't dispute his writings. Steve has done his research. He's spent numerous hours interviewing various brothers.

One thing that's clear in the audio is Ron has not done his research on Steve. Maybe Ron feels he doesn't need to. If Ron is to be speaking publically about a brother, Ron better be accurate in his speaking. It is a serious matter to misrepresent another person.

Terry

[djohnson]

Ohio suit can be brought against an author and/or his/her publisher.

On the internet there are publishers and they can be held liable for the content of their sites. However in the instance of message boards the ISP and hosts cannot be held liable for the content but the author/s can. In these cases the ISP and hosting platform are considered to be merely facilitating conversation not publishing content.

Isitt is a known author to the LSM killjoys and I'm sure if they thought they had legit a case against him and he had deep pockets they would at least threaten it. But here is another consideration: they are not wont to sue former "insiders". My guess is because they know in any discovery process they would be further exposed by credible people. With "ignorant" outsiders at least they have a chance of a snow job.

[Ohio]

Thanks for the info. Obviously I was misinformed several years ago.

[countmeworthy]

Whatever happened to OBEYING the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT????

1 Samuel 15:22
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

[Paul Cox]

It's interesting that the Kangas chose to speak these things, mentioning Steve by name, in another country.

An objective bystander could look at these people and say, "My goodness, they, who claim to be Philadelphia, sure do spend a lot of time and resources fighting with so many people who they used to meet with and call brothers.

For those who still want to give Witness Lee a pass, please understand that the Kangas is just a fruit of Lee. All the "Blended Brothers" are just the seed of Witness Lee. And it is no surprise that many of them have expressed the desire that the FTT become a Witness Lee duplication center. That is exactly what it is.

There is a Watchman Nee book out, published by CFP called The Secret of Christian Living. Part II, Chapter 1 is called The Seed of God. In there Nee points out from verses in Matthew that the seed sown by God is not only His Word, but his very disciples. He warns us to be careful what we are. In other words, if we are not walking in Spirit, we will still produce followers, except they will be after our kind. We produce seed that is like us, and not Christ.

The Blendeds speak of Lee with so much admiration and awe, and constantly refer to him as “a godman.” This way of dealing with saints who disagree with you has nothing to do with God.

Roger

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Roger

For those who still want to give Witness Lee a pass, please understand that the Kangas is just a fruit of Lee. All the "Blended Brothers" are just the seed of Witness Lee. And it is no surprise that many of them have expressed the desire that the FTT become a Witness Lee duplication center. That is exactly what it is.

Exactamente mi hermano! Not only are these guys the fruit of Lee they are HIS CONTINUATION - Lee told them to be his continuation and they've actually done quite the bang up job!

Not that this is going to make him feel any better, but Steve I is just the last in a very, very long string of brothers who have been hung in effigy by Witness Lee and his henchmen, going all the way back to the days in Taiwan. (probably back to the days in Mainland China)

It is nothing more or nothing less the Local Church way of doing business. Wistleblowers get blown away, it's as simple as that. Besides, all longtime LC members know (or should know) that there is NOBODY bigger then "the system" in the Local Church of Witness Lee, except Lee himself, and now that he is gone we all know what that means.

and to the heart of the matter..

Originally Posted by Suannehill

This may be a little off the subject but it reminds me of denying our emotions.
I used to argue (with no effect) that I believe that my emotions function to love the Lord and others. With out it I'm..."sounding brass and clanging cymbals"...anyone hear brass today?
Sue

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

.. all longtime LC members know (or should know) that there is NOBODY bigger then "the system" in the Local Church of Witness Lee, except Lee himself, ....

Even the red Cardinals of the RCC elect a new pope after he dies.

...Awww but the LSM cardinals, I suspect, knew they'd begin to look too much like the RCC and thus refrained from doing so. PLUS...I can see the Jealousy factor rear its' ugly head if someone would have been elected to take Lee's place...ESPECIALLY if the veered off the beaten path & went into a different direction than Lee's continueum.

[Indiana]

DCP and blending brothers refer to the reviling of "lordship" by writers on the internet.

www.twoturmoils.com/EvilSpeaking.pdf

[Cal]

It's amazing how these LSM guys will cherry-pick any teaching from Nee or Lee they can find to try to bolster their case. They are absolutely shameless on that point.

From the get go, their statement "Reviling words are always a sign of rebellion" is a questionable assertion. It's just something that sounds good and which they expect the faithful to accept at face value.

When the Lord called the Pharisess "hypocrites," "vipers" and "whitewashed selpulchres" was that rebellion?

When Paul called Ananias a "white-washed wall" was that rebellion?

Also, why is it okay for these LSM-hypocrites (and that's what they are) to call others every name in the book, but someone who returns the favor is automatically a "reviling rebel." What give them special privilege?

Does anyone buy this nonsense they try to dish out? If you do, wake up.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Also, why is it okay for these LSM-hypocrites (and that's what they are) to call others every name in the book, but someone who returns the favor is automatically a "reviling rebel." What give them special privilege? Does anyone buy this nonsense they try to dish out? If you do, wake up.

I did wake up. Several years ago. But it took me a lot of personal study. The watershed events for me were those surrounding John Ingalls. Years ago I had heard LSM's scathing condemnations of John in numerous messages, and had read their books including Fermentation of the Recent Rebellion and Answers to Recent Accusations. My opinions were solidly formed against John and his other cohorts for what they had supposedly done to the Recovery. I held these entrenched views for 15 years. I had no reason to change them.

Then one day I happened to find his book Speaking the Truth in Love on line. I had never heard his side of the story. He had never had a "fair hearing." What I had received was totally one-sided and purposely distorted in the worst way. John's writing was totally fair and of the highest character. His book was absolutely characteristic of everything I had known about him. His book was neither bitter, nor one-sided, nor in any way "rebellious." He had never changed as I had been led to believe.

Somebody else had changed. Since it was not John Ingalls, the facts now pointed to the culprit(s). I also read other accounts of former LC leaders such as John So, Bill Mallon, Don Hardy. Since then many, many more have begun to write. I believe the reason is simple. LSM so-called "deputy spiritual authority" is merely a "house of cards" which is slowly crashing down in the hearts of many, many saints, such as Steve Isitt, whom LSM leaders have called a "man of death." Shame on them. The fear that once held us in silence is becoming the righteous voice of indignation.

LSM's authority is presumptuous. Supposedly, behind the scenes, God was the "enforcer" behind all their authoritative judgments. Oh sure, we heard many stories about "revilers" getting cancer of the throat, or some such. These were all supposed to hold us in fear and in silence. And I'm not saying that any writer should not behave uprightly towards LSM, but the "false fear" is rapidly vanishing. The only fear that remains is quarantines and lawsuits.

LSM knows deep down that they have no more authority from above. They have forfeited heavenly authorities by using earthly means. Their current authority is not divine. Their authority is human only. It is an authority from man in the form of lawsuits and intimidations.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I did wake up. Several years ago. But it took me a lot of personal study. The fear that once held us in silence is becoming the righteous voice of indignation.

We can never study enough. I'm glad the Holy Spirit revealed all that He revealed to you and HELPED you to escape the prison...you and many others, including me. There is Righteous Anger. The Lord displayed it on several occassions...the money changers at the Temple, calling Peter-satan, putting the Pharasees and Saducees in their place. Yet He knew how to get angry RIGHTEOUSLY without sin.

LSM so-called "deputy spiritual authority" is merely a "house of cards" which is slowly crashing down in the hearts of many, many saints,LSM knows deep down that they have no more authority from above. They have forfeited heavenly authorities by using earthly means. Their current authority is not divine. Their authority is human only. It is an authority from man in the form of lawsuits and intimidations.

Ohio,
Do you see another big exodus like there was in the 70s & 80s? I'm not sure if there was one in the 90s or not. I know Lee died in 1997 I believe..and that might have put a damper on any exodus as people waited to see what would happen with the changing of the guard. (I'm guessing.) Perhaps you are far removed to know anything...like me.

[djohnson]

You know I can never figure it out: do the LSM stalwarts really believe their own press about themselves and their supposed authority? I mean really believe it? Or is it all just a thing they have been in so long and committed so much to that even though they know it's a farce they have to prop it up to stay busy and make themselves feel like they are doing something worthwhile and important instead of going out to get real jobs?

Personally their claims are so laughable to me I can't believe they take themselves seriously. I'm always waiting for them to say: "Nah we're just kidding! There really isn't a wizard behind the curtain."

[Cal]

dj,

I think they think they have to keep the movement going at all costs. I think they truly believe the movement was a special movement of God and is his only hope. (If that sounds weird it's because it is.) In their minds, then, the end justify the means. Not all means, at least in the beginning. But the slope gets slipperier as one compromises, until what one wouldn't have done ten years ago is routine today.

I do think they believe in this authority thing, that everyone needs to be unquestionably submitting to someone. They don't trust people to make honest decisions. Everyone is suspect of being "independent." They believe in the police state. Of course, in this arrangment there are always a few (like the pigs in Animal Farm) who are at the top of the heap, who are "more equal" than others. These always have the most vested interest in the status quo.

So do they believe their own press? I think they think Lee's ministry is the authority and they are the enforcers and so are default authorities. So, yeah, in a way they do.

[IDon'tKnow]

I'm not certain if thier have been any mass exodus. Although I know at least in my locality thier seemed to have been a quiet dropping away of many over time. I remember that at one of the more recent ITERO's they brought up the concern that the recovery was aging. Something like in many area's if the average age of saints was 30 twenty years ago it's now 50. I think we all know what that means.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by IDon'tKnow

I'm not certain if thier have been any mass exodus. Although I know at least in my locality thier seemed to have been a quiet dropping away of many over time. I remember that at one of the more recent ITERO's they brought up the concern that the recovery was aging. Something like in many area's if the average age of saints was 30 twenty years ago it's now 50. I think we all know what that means.

Part of the problem is an emphasis on the ministry instead of the family. It's the family that should be emphasized in the churchlife. Focus on the family and you keep the children. At least in the places I've met in, so many children have been lost. Some remain and if what you say is an indication, localities are aging without significant increase and not much retention for children raised in the local churches.

Terry

[Indiana]

Ron Kangas made a mistake in Ecuador to call me an evil person and a man of death. He showed a great lack of understanding and immaturity in doing so. But it is not only a mistake he made; it is a mentality.

And, it is that mentality that has led churches and saints off course that I have been tenaciously addressing for several years. The mistakes and miscalculations are innumerable and are all the result of a mentality, a mentality that is not of God.

Mr. Kangas is not the only one who has been practicing the sin of defamation, but he was one of the first and, it seems, he is one of the most prone to do so.

In 1989 he tried his best to bring down John Ingalls, but only succeeded in committing libel 18 times over, as he attempted to address John Ingalls’ eighteen points that he made upon his resignation from the eldership in Anaheim.

This brother – and all the blending brothers – are over me in the Lord, but because of their great error and sin, I do not recognize them. I instead take the position of bringing their attention to their error and sin.

http://www.twoturmoils.com/EighteenP...considered.pdf

[TLFisher]

Indiana, it has been said before "you just need to get right with the brothers". Your unique situation, most of "the brothers" don't have a clue. The brothers only go based on what they've been told. How much time have the brothers spent with you?

Even with your first writing, that just didn't come out of the blue after receiving the ministry for nearly 30 years. No, it was precipitated. If the brothers say "it's not about right or wrong, it's about life", steps would be taken by a brother or brothers to get right with you.

Initially, it may have been just one brother who had to get right with you. Each time a brother misrepresents you in his speaking whether at a conference as Ron Kangas has done or in someone's home, the counter is adding.

Terry

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by Terry

Part of the problem is an emphasis on the ministry instead of the family. It's the family that should be emphasized in the churchlife. Focus on the family and you keep the children. At least in the places I've met in, so many children have been lost. Some remain and if what you say is an indication, localities are aging without significant increase and not much retention for children raised in the local churches.
Terry

Terry, you are correct that the condition of the family should have been emphasized in the local church life. WL tried weakly to correct this false (Gnostic) concept many times in his messages, yet to no avail. And this is only one of many deviations we see from the Teaching and Fellowship of the Apostles, yet it is the one which I feel provokes God's displeasure the most, and even opens the door to the possibility of a curse being sent - if there would be no repentance.

I recently found what I feel to be an excellent synopsis of this matter regarding the proper priorities in our Christian Life.
This came from www.GotQuestions.org
Question: "What should be the order of priorities in our family?"

I would like to suggest that you bring this document along for discussion during your meeting tomorrow. What harm could there be in asking that person to honestly reveal the core priorities he represents and believes in? In my thinking, anyone who disagrees with the order of priorities presented in that document would be automatically disqualified from holding the office of an elder - anywhere in the Body of Christ.

P.S.

[tasteslikegold]

Yes, because we all know that a good dose of psychology mixed with our spiritual experiences is what is needed in the majority of our Christian lives.

Especially as it pertains to our families.


Just ask Focus on the Family.



Question: Is it any church organization's responsibility to "fix" what's wrong in their congregation's families? Or is it the primary responsibility of churches to spread the gospel and build up the Body of Christ. I would love to see a pattern of this in the New Testament somewhere.

[Conval]

in LC, if you "think" means you "sin"

[TLFisher]

Sense life meaning what, stay positive?
Not absolutely. Some of the best experiences I've had in sensing life is when my spirit is bothered. When my spirit is bothered, that's usually when God shines light within my inner man.

What does it mean to not discern right and wrong? Is it similar to the old saying we don't care about right and wrong, we only care for life? If that's the context, then I would ask, are you concerned about sin? If you are concerned about sin and dealing with sin, absolutely you should care about right and wrong in the context of sin and dealing with sin.

No one should have the thought of not discerning right and wrong for the purpose of covering over sin from being dealt with.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Terry

Sense life meaning what, stay positive?
Not absolutely. Some of the best experiences I've had in sensing life is when my spirit is bothered. When my spirit is bothered, that's usually when God shines light within my inner man.

What does it mean to not discern right and wrong? Is it similar to the old saying we don't care about right and wrong, we only care for life? If that's the context, then I would ask, are you concerned about sin? If you are concerned about sin and dealing with sin, absolutely you should care about right and wrong in the context of sin and dealing with sin.

No one should have the thought of not discerning right and wrong for the purpose of covering over sin from being dealt with.

It's interesting that the LRC spoke so much about "sensing life" when the Bible barely talks about it. When it comes to things we sense (for lack of a better word) the Bible mostly talks about joy and peace.

Joy to me is life. That is, even when I'm in a very bad situation, deep inside there is still joy. When the joy leaves, that's when I'm in trouble. Accompanying joy is peace. They go together. The Bible says let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts. It doesn't say let the life of Christ rule in your hearts. Although, that's effectively what happens.

Stick to joy and peace, and life will take care of itself.