I didn’t know that dead man write books!

Hello all,

I just recently noticed something that pretty disturbing in my view, but I could be wrong. I was looking at the most current edition of LSM published Holy Word for Morning Revival, and even though I clearly know that it’s issued based on the last feast of the local church, (aka summer training), however on the cover of it, the editors and publishers slap the name of Nee and Lee, as if it was written by them. What in the world is that? One men has been dead for 25+ years and the other for 50+, how are they still publishing books?

I’m not naïve to think that it does contain some quotes from their writings while they were alive, but you would use quotation in those cases. We all know that it was written by current members, why not be truthful about who wrote these things? Is that asking too much? Or am I off my rocker? I just didn’t know that dead men could know things like “An Overview of the Central Burden and Present Truth of the Lord’s Recovery before His Appearing, vol. 1”.
July 2023 Semiannual Training
https://www.livingstream.com/en/holy...ing-vol-1.html

This also makes me think of how many books that were actually written by Nee/Lee vs the editorial staff at LSM while slapping their names on their writings. On the side note, I also noticed how much they sanitize the actual quote and statements of both men, in order to present more palatable versions of what they said or wrote, but that’s another story for another day.
Thanks

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Just saying

Hello all,

I just recently noticed something that pretty disturbing in my view, but I could be wrong. I was looking at the most current edition of LSM published Holy Word for Morning Revival, and even though I clearly know that it’s issued based on the last feast of the local church, (aka summer training), however on the cover of it, the editors and publishers slap the name of Nee and Lee, as if it was written by them. What in the world is that? One men has been dead for 25+ years and the other for 50+, how are they still publishing books?

I’m not naïve to think that it does contain some quotes from their writings while they were alive, but you would use quotation in those cases. We all know that it was written by current members, why not be truthful about who wrote these things? Is that asking too much? Or am I off my rocker? I just didn’t know that dead men could know things like “An Overview of the Central Burden and Present Truth of the Lord’s Recovery before His Appearing, vol. 1”.
July 2023 Semiannual Training
https://www.livingstream.com/en/holy...ing-vol-1.html

This also makes me think of how many books that were actually written by Nee/Lee vs the editorial staff at LSM while slapping their names on their writings. On the side note, I also noticed how much they sanitize the actual quote and statements of both men, in order to present more palatable versions of what they said or wrote, but that’s another story for another day.
Thanks

I'm not sure that Witness Lee ever wrote a single book. Maybe early on but I don't think...

Part of the early days, the LSM was referred to as "service to the ministry". That meant volunteers from all over converged on...I remember Dallas...probably other places such as Anaheim. The volunteers spent their days transcribing taped Witness Lee's spoken messages thus reducing them to print. So all those LSM books are transcriptions of his printed messages. I don't know if that's what you may be referring to or if it's significant, but it is the truth.

After being reduced to print, another group would begin to "polish" what had been transcribed into being ready for publication. I sat in on a polishing group for an afternoon in Irving. It consisted of a group of mostly women at a table with one overbearing man who was "taking the lead".

So this large, rotating, group of "volunteers" you could call the "editorial staff". In some cases, transcripts were sent to other localities and "polished" off-site.

In a similar vein, once when Witness Lee came to Irving, TX, I was long time "out" but I wanted to hear what Lee had to say so I went. I met our friend Matt Anderson there. It just so happened that Lee's "topic" was "Man Becomes God"--first time that has been "released". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I thought Matt was going to come right out of his chair! I also couldn't wait to purchase this message in writing. After a month or so, I was able to purchase a copy. Reading through it, the "Man Becomes God" message had been "washed" almost beyond recognition. Some of the things I heard Lee say with my own ears, had been omitted from the written message and some were dumbed down. Why? Some of Lee's comments were blatant heresy, and even when I heard it, I was skeptical that this heresy could conceivably be published. I was right.

Here's another experience of mine. Around this time, I had a dream. No. Really. A real dream. In it I saw a group (8 or 10) of women sitting in a circle in the big meeting hall in Irving...home of the Living Stream Ministry publishing house. The women in the circle each had a pair of jeans (really, jeans) and were hand sewing on the jeans. The words came to me in my dream "You have made my Father's house, a house of merchandise."

Nell

(So it's hard to say how much Lee's "ministry" has been scrubbed. For this reason, it's also hard to have confidence that Lee's last word was actually "sacrifice.")

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

I'm not sure that Witness Lee ever wrote a single book. Maybe early on but I don't think...

(So it's hard to say how much Lee's "ministry" has been scrubbed. For this reason, it's also hard to have confidence that Lee's last word was actually "sacrifice.")

Between both Nee and Lee, the only book I knew for sure which was actually written by one of them was The Spiritual Man by Nee. Today we know that Nee plagiarized most of that book from Penn-Lewis.

Originally Posted by Nell

Part of the early days of the LSM was referred to as "service to the ministry". That meant volunteers from all over converged on...I remember Dallas...probably other places such as Anaheim. The volunteers spent their days transcribing taped Witness Lee's spoken messages thus reducing them to print. So all those LSM books are transcriptions of his printed messages. I don't know if that's what you may be referring to or if it's significant, but it is the truth.....

Great info there Nell, and although I see what they have been doing, I still do not understand how anyone can write something 25-50 years after both died and claim that it was written by those men. It’s disingenuous at the least, and utterly deceiving. I guess that how they’ve build this empire of Lee. I know it’s about books sales, so I guess they have to lie to sell the newest Lee issues to keep the dollars moving. Hopefully no one discovers a recording of someone like Apostle Paul 2000 years later, and writes a book claiming it was written by him, just to say it was a new light that they recovered.

As far as this practice, is it done in any other Christian groups, or it’s just something that a rarity and local church invention?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Just saying

Great info there Nell, and although I see what they have been doing, I still do not understand how anyone can write something 25-50 years after both died and claim that it was written by those men. It’s disingenuous at the least, and utterly deceiving. I guess that how they’ve build this empire of Lee. I know it’s about books sales, so I guess they have to lie to sell the newest Lee issues to keep the dollars moving. Hopefully no one discovers a recording of someone like Apostle Paul 2000 years later, and writes a book claiming it was written by him, just to say it was a new light that they recovered.

As far as this practice, is it done in any other Christian groups, or it’s just something that a rarity and local church invention?

Originally, messages were printed in leaflets and sold for 25 cents each. Later the leaflets are combined into books and reprinted, after being scrubbed a bit. I once was debating someone and quoted text from a Lee book. The person countered with “I have that book. Your quote doesn’t exist in it.” I quoted the original book. There were later editions that had been scrubbed.

The LC faithful are pressured to repurchase publications they already own so they will have nice pretty books on their bookshelves to help keep the LSM ship afloat. Or, to line the pockets of current LSM ownership.

So, It’s probable that there is nothing “new”. Manuscripts are scrubbed, republished and marketed as “new”.

The Local Churches have essentially become franchised outlets of the LSM publishing house. The LC’s are controlled by the LSM. In the beginning it was not so.

Nell

I think it's more than the books "contain some quotes" from Nee and Lee. The content of the books literally IS just quotes from Nee and Lee. Aside from the 3-4 verses on each day, and aside from wherever the useless outlines come from, the entire rest of the content of each HWMR is pulled directly from a variety of Lee's ministry books. At the bottom of every single day of ministry is the reference to what ministry book it came from.

Of course a normal publishing house would say something like "with excerpts from Witness Lee's ministry" on their cover, rather than acting like Witness Lee is somehow still behind the ongoing creation of the HWMR, but I don't think anyone here thinks LSM is a normal publishing house.....

I read a quote online this morning by Watchman Nee, only to realize that the movement that he invented will eventually go on to do exactly what he said that Christians don’t need. I guess the moment he was confronted and removed from the church, he himself started signing another song.

The word of God explains itself, and there is no need of outside help. Otherwise, only the wise and the knowledgeable would be able to understand God's word.

CWWN, vol. 4, "The Christian (2): Meditations on Revelation," ch. 5: Pergamos—the Corrupted Church

Pergamos = Lords Recovery, as in corrupted church.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I read a quote online this morning by Watchman Nee, only to realize that the movement that he invented will eventually go on to do exactly what he said that Christians don’t need.

At some point a clear pattern emerged, that there was Early Nee, the young maverick, the upstart who challenged the existing church [degraded] power structure, and Later Nee, who represented and defended organized and established [degraded] church power structure, against upstarts and mavericks.

[OBW]

I was briefly part of the proofreaders in Irving (part of what Nell mentioned). I did my proofing on one chapter of (I have no idea what book it ultimately was) and was found wanting. It seems that I did not use the gramatical/punctuation guidelines of the preferred style guide and was never offered another section to do. The style guide they referred me to was interesting. That was enough for me. The attitude of the guy who read through my comments and then made it sound as if I had a rather poor understanding of English effectively released me from any thought of asking for more to do.

In hindsight, the idea that I had essentially nothing to do with the publishing operations that went on in Irving is somehow very satisfying. I had nothing to do with the publication of the drivel coming out of that basement operation.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by aron

At some point a clear pattern emerged, that there was Early Nee, the young maverick, the upstart who challenged the existing church [degraded] power structure, and Later Nee, who represented and defended organized and established [degraded] church power structure, against upstarts and mavericks.

Thanks for this helpful 30,000 foot view of NEE! It reminds me of my own shocking discovery in around 2005 that there existed a HUGE discrepancy between the Early Witness Lee (1950s) and Later Lee; a HUGE difference from Lee's "Door knocking New Way" on through the "Baby Gods" nonsense, and up until his passing in 1997. If LSM had not begun to make $$ off of Lee's early ministry by translating/printing new books from that era, I would never have noticed this stark difference. So hats off to LSM for doing me that favor!


Here is the main title which jolted me awake - from Taipei Service Meetings Aug 1953


This page was quite telling - countering our widely embraced "The Lord Would Never Abandon US" attitude.

Having skimmed every new (WL) book which began showing up around that time frame in my locality's standing order, I became increasingly alarmed. When pressed about this obvious departure from earlier teaching I was assured by the other responsible brothers to not worry, and just dive deeper into the current up-to-date flow.

P.S.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

Having skimmed every new (WL) book which began showing up around that time frame in my locality's standing order, I became increasingly alarmed. When pressed about this obvious departure from earlier teaching I was assured by the other responsible brothers to not worry, and just dive deeper into the current up-to-date flow.

Same can be said of many other books from the early Lee era. Why the departure from earlier teachings?
Same might accuse someone of "using the ministry to attack the ministry".
Yeah PriestlyScribe, just dive deeper into the current up-to-date-flow is doing nothing but sending the message that we're not going to change for anybody.
Ministry publications carries more importance than caring for people.