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Old 08-23-2020, 10:04 AM   #1
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Default His Purpose - Christ in us

This morning I had a particularly good time in the word with song and prayer, and enjoyed His presence, encouragement and joy in me. These words came to me and I thought to share. It is a simple, one sentence statement of God's purpose and I hope this blesses you.

"God loved us so much that while we were enemies He came and died to rescue us
and put the Spirit of His Son into us to transform us into His image."
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Old 08-28-2020, 08:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: His Purpose - Christ in us

I read this in a devotional this morning, and thought to post it: "The perfect church is the church that has the love of God flowing in all the imperfect members toward all the other imperfect members."
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:04 PM   #3
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I read this in a devotional this morning, and thought to post it: "The perfect church is the church that has the love of God flowing in all the imperfect members toward all the other imperfect members."
Everyone is uncomely, and we are all instructed to heap more abundant honor on the uncomely ones (i.e. everyone)!
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Old 08-29-2020, 08:50 AM   #4
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Everyone is uncomely, and we are all instructed to heap more abundant honor on the uncomely ones (i.e. everyone)!
Yes! As I go on, I generally view myself as less and other members in the body as more. I guess that's just part of being shown how weak I really am!

Here's something from that same devotional for today: "What is the perfect church? It is a forgiving church. It is a long-suffering church. It is an enduring, patient and caring church that is receiving all the failing, sinful, ungodly people who have Christ in them. There is forgiveness up to seventy times seven. And there is love and there is mercy."
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Old 08-29-2020, 10:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: His Purpose - Christ in us

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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post
This morning I had a particularly good time in the word with song and prayer, and enjoyed His presence, encouragement and joy in me. These words came to me and I thought to share. It is a simple, one sentence statement of God's purpose and I hope this blesses you.

"God loved us so much that while we were enemies He came and died to rescue us
and put the Spirit of His Son into us to transform us into His image."
Thank you Sons to Glory! This encourages me to seek God's presence more.
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Old 08-29-2020, 11:07 AM   #6
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"What is the perfect church?

It is a forgiving church. It is a long-suffering church. It is an enduring, patient and caring church that is receiving all the failing, sinful, ungodly people who have Christ in them. There is forgiveness up to seventy times seven. And there is love and there is mercy."
I love this. It is much more in line with our Lord's definition of "Be ye perfect as My Father." (Mt 5.48)

The definition of a "perfect" church has to accommodate lots of imperfection.
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Old 08-31-2020, 09:55 AM   #7
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I love this. It is much more in line with our Lord's definition of "Be ye perfect as My Father." (Mt 5.48)

The definition of a "perfect" church has to accommodate lots of imperfection.
Amen! In that section of Matthew 5, being perfect is in the context of loving others. Love is the foundation of it all, and how the Lord said we will be known as being His.

Whenever I stray very far from the truth of His love as being the reason for all of it, He gently reminds me and brings me back! If only all of us would walk in this wonderful reality all the time. . . .
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Old 09-04-2020, 04:39 PM   #8
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I'm reading in Major Ian Thomas' book, "The Indwelling Life of Christ" and read this which I thought to post here.

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He was in the beginning with God and was God, and is God, and as the Creative Word all things were made by Him. When He came to this earth, however, He became a man in the fullest sense of the term, Man as God intended man to be. He behaved as God intended man to behave, walking day by day in that relationship to the Father which God had always intended should exist between man and Himself.

"I am the way, the truth and the life." (John 14:6) When Jesus said, "I am the way," He was telling us, "I am how you can become a Christian, for I died for you." When He said, "I am the life," He was telling us, "I am how you can be the Christian you have become." Jesus is the Truth about the Way and the Truth about the Life.
I saw something afresh while reading this, that Jesus was (and is) the prototype for us. And through His life in us, He will do all the wonderful things He has promised us - WOW! The Christian life in its every day reality is impossible without Christ in us, our only hope of glory!
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Old 09-11-2020, 08:54 AM   #9
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Three passages came to me this morning: "and the word was God." "The Word became flesh." "a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies . . . it produces much grain." (John 1:1 & 14, 12:24)

TWO QUESTIONS WE SHOULD ASK:
1. What is the nature of The Word?
2. What is the nature of the many grains?

Isn't scripture amazing!?!?
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Old 10-04-2020, 12:27 PM   #10
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Read something this morning in Bill Freeman's daily devotional, "The Supplied Life" that I was struck with and thought to share:

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This universe is in a state of collapse because of Satan, sin, the flesh and the world, which have sought to disorient and damage God's creation. However, God became a man and came to this earth, not only to redeem us personally, but to secure a firm foothold in the universe to head it up and administrate it with Himself as Lord. When we say, "Jesus is Lord!" we are saying that He is Lord over all as a God-Man on the throne of this universe. He is the God-Man who glorified humanity in His own Person by giving a perfect sinless life. Then He was glorified in His body. First Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. This means when He came out of the grave, He was a resurrected Man. He was God, but He was equally man; and will remain a God-Man for eternity. He will never loose His manhood. He assumed it. He put it on, never to put it off. He took humanity to the throne and was seated there, and God made Him Lord and Christ in this universe.
In reading this I caught a little glimpse of "What is man that thou art mindful of him?" (Psalm 8:4) God created man in His likeness and image, but why? So man would be a good fit for God! God loves us so much, because He made us as vessels to contain just Him (as the old song goes)! Man is not just passing fancy of God . . . as Ephesians 2:10 says, "For we are his masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus unto good works."

Anybody else see this?
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:52 AM   #11
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Default Re: His Purpose - Christ in us

Read a verse in Galatians 3:19 I was impressed with, "Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."

"Until the Seed . . . had come." This is Christ . . . who came as The Seed to get into us!! Wow! This verse so clearly states that it's not about the outward doing, but rather His life growing IN us!
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: His Purpose - Christ in us

Had a wonderful time in this Sunday's gathering here in Scottsdale! The singing and sharing from different ones and the Lord's Table were just goooooood. For me it was a grand celebration of the freedom and the family that He has called us into.

Below is a linked video of a brother (1 of 6 who share regularly) who shared a 40 minute message on the first part of Philippians chapter two, that I had a prompting to share on here. It was just downright good, enjoyable and living - to hear in a fresh and simple way about us having the mind of Christ.

Enjoy! Let this Mind be In You
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:47 AM   #13
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This morning I read a wonderful passage in the Major Ian Thomas book, "The Indwelling Life of Christ" that I thought to share. (from chapter 30, "Your Life is a Miracle")

Quote:
Why do so few Christians enjoy this miraculous resurrection Life?

Because they are educated out of it. They are taught to repudiate the indwelling presence of a resurrected Lord, and instead are told to do their best for Jesus, to emulate His example, to flex their own spiritual muscles, to stand up and be counted, to clench their fist and throw out their chest.

They are taught everything except to repent and to recognize that you and I were created to be inhabited by our Maker. They are taught in prayer to beg and say "Please" instead of saying "Thank You" as they relax and rest in Christ.
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Old 10-18-2020, 03:19 PM   #14
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This morning I read a wonderful passage in Major Ian Thomas' book -- "They're taught everything except to repent and to recognize that you and I were created to be inhabited by our Maker. They're taught in prayer to beg and say 'Please' instead of saying 'Thank You' as they relax and rest in Christ."
I'm not impressed. There's a big hole there, like those found in the Nee and Lee "mystical" schools. They contrast the "earnest Christian" trying to be good, with the "enjoying Christians" who relax and rest in the "good land" of Christ.

But missing in the middle is the person of Christ himself. On both hands, the focus is on "you and I". Look at the first sentence from the quote: it's "you and I" that Major Ian Thomas is concerned with. The subject is self, not Christ. This focus on self is the set-up to self-delusion. That's why I call it the "mystical" school. It's all about your experience, so-called. And in the LC they violate common sense, violate scripture, violate basic human morality, if they can only follow the "sense of life" or the "flavor" that Lee left them with. What deception.

Now, not to judge your experience, or Major Thomas', but the teaching isn't for me. The entire NT up to Paul's epistles makes the unremitting case that the OT scripture was about the experiences of the Christ - Jesus the Nazarene. It's focused on a singular person, a singular title, a singular experience. Jesus is "the" Christ. It's not about the "earnest Christian" trying to do good, nor the "relaxing Christian" enjoying Christ, so-called. No, it's rather about the obedient, suffering, crucified, buried, resurrected, ascended and glorified Christ. If you don't see that, what's then your experience? What's your enjoyment?

Maybe you assume all that, but it's not stated, which I find dangerous. Look at what happened in the LC: a shell game. Follow the pea. Eventually the dupe is sure that they're looking at "Christ" but it's nothing of the sort.

Jesus taught, "Even as I obey the Father, so you should obey me" and "Even as the Father sent me, so do I send you" and "Even as I live because of the Father, so you live because of me." The "even as" part is so important - if you can't appreciate the first part of the equation, how can you possibly keep the second? The "even as" connects two equalities, two equivalents. If you don't focus on Jesus on earth, in full relation with the Father in heaven, how can you follow with any meaningful, reality-based relationship?

Instead, I continually see vain and imaginary 'Christs' being promoted. The LSM is poster child for this, but it's unfortunately not the only one. The error is common, the pit of self is wide and deep. Avoid it at all costs.
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:00 AM   #15
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I'm not impressed. There's a big hole there, like those found in the Nee and Lee "mystical" schools. They contrast the "earnest Christian" trying to be good, with the "enjoying Christians" who relax and rest in the "good land" of Christ.

But missing in the middle is the person of Christ himself. On both hands, the focus is on "you and I". Look at the first sentence from the quote: it's "you and I" that Major Ian Thomas is concerned with.
You are way, way off base here. How come you missed the "inhabited by our Maker" part?

"you and I were created to be inhabited by our Maker"
That is right there, but you claim that what is "missing in the middle is the person of Christ himself." The "our Maker" part IS Christ Himself,.... how come you missed it?

Lots of posts on this forum like this one show me that people read things here with Witness Lee glasses on and then proceed to rant vs. Witness Lee's teachings, regardless of what the post really says.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:41 AM   #16
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"you and I were created to be inhabited by our Maker"[/B] That is right there, but you claim that what is "missing in the middle is the person of Christ himself." The "our Maker" part IS Christ Himself,.... how come you missed it?
I didn't miss it at all. But look at the context. Christ... our Maker... is just a prop, a foil. The focus is on "you and I", the Christian.... either struggling, or relaxing. The focus is on you, who are but dust and ashes, and even worse, it is on your "experience", which is even less tenable. And for the benefit of our friends from the LC who might be lurking, I add that that is Watchman Nee's MO. Focus on the mystical indwelling Christ. Enjoy him! Meanwhile, gross sin is tolerated and covered because, "We cover drunken Noah" etc.

And I do apologize for the rant. Guilty as charged. But you don't see Christ in his experience and enjoyment of the Father in heaven getting led down the primrose path of "mystical experience". No, he was guided by the word, a sure peg. And, as I repeated, and perhaps you missed, his experience was to be a template for ours. "Even as I obey the Father's commands, so you also must obey mine". Don't you think there's a relationship there, worth focusing on?

Then, and only then, is "Christ in you" and all the rest of it worth attention. But notice that instead the focus is either wholly or nearly wholly on "Christ in you". Christ here is a prop. Displayed then withdrawn.
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:34 PM   #17
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You are way, way off base here. How come you missed the "inhabited by our Maker" part?
The other thing I find so interesting about these discussions, is that the verses I cited are usually ignored, as they were in this case. So I'll repeat them.

"Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me." John 6:57

"If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love." John 15:10

Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." John 20:21

What I see is a pattern of equivalents: Jesus puts his relationship with the Father, then says the believer's relations with him are "Just as" or "even as" they are. So if the Lord Jesus obeys the Father, we obey him. Jesus lives on the Father (his food is in keeping his commands, cf John 4:34) so do we live on him. As the Father sent him, so he sends us.

The focus is not on us, it's on him. Peter preached this gospel, not of his (Peter's) enjoyment but on Jesus' resurrection. "Know ye that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified." Peter didn't get side-tracked by his "enjoyment" or "experience".

Now, you may think I'm conflating Major Ian Thomas with Witness Lee. But they sound a lot alike. To me the danger is the same. And the only protest to my noting this, comes from someone who ignores the substance of what I say. This only serves to convince me that perhaps I'm onto something here. They are bothered, but they ignore the word. The word shows us a relationship, beckons us to follow. Instead we get a generic "Christ in you". In this case, it seems that "Christ" is whatever you want it to be. How do you know that your "enjoyment" or "experience" is real? Jesus' was - the Father raised him from the dead, furnishing proof to all, for all time. Why then focus on your own? It seems rather untrustworthy. And why ignore the trustworthy revelation of God, as if it were not laid out here, if not in full, at least in part?
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:34 PM   #18
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You are way, way off base here. How come you missed the "inhabited by our Maker" part?
The other thing I find so interesting about these discussions, is that the verses I cited are usually ignored, as they were in this case. So I'll repeat them.

"Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me." John 6:57

"If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love." John 15:10

Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." John 20:21

What I see is a pattern of equivalents: Jesus notes some aspect of his relationship with the Father, then says the believer's relations with him are "Just as" or "even as" his are with the Father. So just as the Lord Jesus obeys the Father, we obey him. Jesus lives on the Father (his food is in keeping his commands, cf John 4:34) so do we live on him. As the Father sent him, so he sends us. How does this not represent a compelling pattern?

The focus in the gospels and Acts is not on us, it's on him. Peter preached this gospel, not of his (Peter's) enjoyment but on Jesus' resurrection. "Know ye that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified." Peter didn't get side-tracked by his own "enjoyment" or "experience". He was laser-focused on the resurrected Messiah.

And the epistles didn't leave this - they built on it. Nothing Paul did, that I can see, departed the "right hand of fellowship" of those that preceded him, including their gospels and their testimonies of Jesus.

Now, perhaps I'm conflating Major Ian Thomas with Witness Lee. But they sound a lot alike, and the danger's the same. And the only protest to my noting this, quoted above, comes from someone who ignores the substance of what was written, which only serves to reinforce the idea that perhaps I'm onto something. They're bothered, and they protest, but do so ignoring the word. Again, similar arguments were received in the LC -- ignore the substance of what was said.

The gospel word shows us a relationship, beckons us to follow. Instead we get a generic "Christ in you". In this case, it seems that "Christ" is whatever you want. How do you know that your "enjoyment" or "experience" is real? Jesus' was - the Father raised him from the dead, furnishing proof to all, for all time. Why then focus on your own ephemeral sensations? Your striving, your joy? It seems rather untrustworthy. And why ignore the trustworthy revelation of God, regarding the person, position, and experiences of Jesus the Son of God, Saviour of the world, as if it weren't laid out here, if not in full, at least in part?
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:08 PM   #19
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The other thing I find so interesting about these discussions, is that the verses I cited are usually ignored, as they were in this case. So I'll repeat them.

"Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me." John 6:57

"If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love." John 15:10

Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." John 20:21

What I see is a pattern of equivalents: Jesus notes some aspect of his relationship with the Father, then says the believer's relations with him are "Just as" or "even as" his are with the Father. So just as the Lord Jesus obeys the Father, we obey him. Jesus lives on the Father (his food is in keeping his commands, cf John 4:34) so do we live on him. As the Father sent him, so he sends us. How does this not represent a compelling pattern?

The focus in the gospels and Acts is not on us, it's on him. Peter preached this gospel, not of his (Peter's) enjoyment but on Jesus' resurrection. "Know ye that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified." Peter didn't get side-tracked by his own "enjoyment" or "experience". He was laser-focused on the resurrected Messiah.

And the epistles didn't leave this - they built on it. Nothing Paul did, that I can see, departed the "right hand of fellowship" of those that preceded him, including their gospels and their testimonies of Jesus.

Now, perhaps I'm conflating Major Ian Thomas with Witness Lee. But they sound a lot alike, and the danger's the same. And the only protest to my noting this, quoted above, comes from someone who ignores the substance of what was written, which only serves to reinforce the idea that perhaps I'm onto something. They're bothered, and they protest, but do so ignoring the word. Again, similar arguments were received in the LC -- ignore the substance of what was said.

The gospel word shows us a relationship, beckons us to follow. Instead we get a generic "Christ in you". In this case, it seems that "Christ" is whatever you want. How do you know that your "enjoyment" or "experience" is real? Jesus' was - the Father raised him from the dead, furnishing proof to all, for all time. Why then focus on your own ephemeral sensations? Your striving, your joy? It seems rather untrustworthy. And why ignore the trustworthy revelation of God, regarding the person, position, and experiences of Jesus the Son of God, Saviour of the world, as if it weren't laid out here, if not in full, at least in part?
On one hand I can agree, that is, the focus for us is to be on Christ. It has to be and that is what we see in the Bible - Christ. But was Christ a Man? Of course. So I think this is a false dilemma here, thinking the focus is on us. Why did Christ come? Us. Man is not nothing. Now of course, apart from Christ we are exactly that - nothing. But we're not apart from Him - He did it all to make us proper vessels to contain what? Him.

But I get it: WL and the LCs catch it because in trying to emphasize what man in in scripture, they probably go a little far. Okay, true. But, after all, man is His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus. (a problem among many of us Christians today is we don't see man high enough . . . for what God has really made us in Christ!)

Now to those who used to be in the LC, there is a sensitivity to saying that man is something more, and this is well expressed on this forum (as Raptor pointed out). But it doesn't negate the fact that there is a ton of talk about us and our experience in the New Testament, is there not? The four gospels are fully centered on Christ, however, the epistles really shift to Christ in us - living in us and operating through us, and what our role is in His operation. But again, I think this is a false dilemma because I don't think Ian Thomas is putting undue focus on us. After all, the title of the book this quote came from is "The Indwelling Life of Christ." Can't have much of an indwelling Christ without the vessel, bro!
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:14 AM   #20
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On one hand I can agree, that is, the focus for us is to be on Christ. It has to be and that is what we see in the Bible - Christ. But was Christ a Man? Of course. So I think this is a false dilemma here, thinking the focus is on us. Why did Christ come? Us. Man is not nothing. Now of course, apart from Christ we are exactly that - nothing. But we're not apart from Him - He did it all to make us proper vessels to contain what? Him.

But I get it: WL and the LCs catch it because in trying to emphasize what man in in scripture, they probably go a little far. Okay, true. But, after all, man is His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus. (a problem among many of us Christians today is we don't see man high enough . . . for what God has really made us in Christ!)

Now to those who used to be in the LC, there is a sensitivity to saying that man is something more, and this is well expressed on this forum (as Raptor pointed out). But it doesn't negate the fact that there is a ton of talk about us and our experience in the New Testament, is there not? The four gospels are fully centered on Christ, however, the epistles really shift to Christ in us - living in us and operating through us, and what our role is in His operation. But again, I think this is a false dilemma because I don't think Ian Thomas is putting undue focus on us. After all, the title of the book this quote came from is "The Indwelling Life of Christ." Can't have much of an indwelling Christ without the vessel, bro!
To a certain degree it may indeed be a matter of emphasis, with the right tack being of "balance" - holding to two opposing aspects, like "God and man" with the tension being not of contradiction but a kind of creative tension, where two distinct things are added together to create one new, unique entity.

Certainly the NT has plenty of material, especially Ephesians/Colossians and so forth, to build such a 'mystical' narrative. Then you can go back to the OT for 'type', with oil added to flour, etc etc. You can add words like "incorporation" and "indwelling" and on.

And the fact that we both believe in God, and that God raised Jesus from the dead, makes any differences in emphases to be of little import. I merely pointed out why I'm not impressed with Thomas' emphasis on "Christ in you", perhaps mainly in reaction to what I have seen and seen others go through.

So with all those qualifiers, I'll explain my "subjective Christ" - my focus and my life. You ask above, "What is man" and my reply is from Psalms. "What is man" is addressed distinctly in Psalm 8. The answer, the "him" is distinctly given. It is Jesus Christ. Not you or I. Jesus is the "Man" who God is mindful of, who God cares about. "You [the Father] have made him [the Christ] a little lower than the angels [incarnation, suffering, death], and you have crowned him with glory and honour [resurrection, ascension, enthronement]." The "man" here is distinctly (to my view) one Person - the Christ, who is Jesus our Lord. There is no other.

Now, we are "in him" and he is "in us", yes. But what is our focus? Him, or us? Our strivings versus our rest, our experience and enjoyment? Christ then becomes a prop in our self-focused narrative. Our sensations take over, and we're convinced the "head rush" is the Holy Spirit (and it may indeed be, at least for a while) but eventually it's all about the head rush. Or the 'peace' or whatever. It's no longer about him, but about us. We claim it's about the indwelling Christ but it's about us.

The self is a yawning chasm, waiting to take us in.

Here is my example, given before, so I'll be brief. There is a hymn that says, "The Bride eyes not her garment, but her dear Bridegroom's face". Yet we were continually (again I reference my LSM-mediated church life) told to look at our garment. Yet the only difference between the woman clothed in the Sun and the Great Harlot, is that one looks at her Maker and the other looks at Herself. Otherwise they are the same. So "look away" unto Jesus. Don't look at yourself. Enjoyment, misery, whatever. Look at him, and live.

That's my narrative anyway. But I don't impose it as a condition of fellowship.

Peace
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Old 10-20-2020, 02:01 PM   #21
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Now, we are "in him" and he is "in us", yes. But what is our focus? Him, or us? Our strivings versus our rest, our experience and enjoyment? Christ then becomes a prop in our self-focused narrative. Our sensations take over, and we're convinced the "head rush" is the Holy Spirit (and it may indeed be, at least for a while) but eventually it's all about the head rush. Or the 'peace' or whatever. It's no longer about him, but about us. We claim it's about the indwelling Christ but it's about us.

The self is a yawning chasm, waiting to take us in.

Here is my example, given before, so I'll be brief. There is a hymn that says, "The Bride eyes not her garment, but her dear Bridegroom's face". Yet we were continually (again I reference my LSM-mediated church life) told to look at our garment. Yet the only difference between the woman clothed in the Sun and the Great Harlot, is that one looks at her Maker and the other looks at Herself. Otherwise they are the same. So "look away" unto Jesus. Don't look at yourself. Enjoyment, misery, whatever. Look at him, and live.

That's my narrative anyway. But I don't impose it as a condition of fellowship.

Peace
Of course - we're just sharing here, and hopefully gaining Christ in the process!

So here's something from the next little chapter of that Major Thomas book: "Faith means letting Him. You will never let Him until you are prepared to admit you cannot, and only God can." Without going into detail, let me say that in reading his materials, the focus really is on Christ, not on us . . . except to say we must let Him.
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Old 11-06-2020, 09:42 AM   #22
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This Thursday at brothers' breakfast, I read a portion of "The Indwelling Life of Christ" by Major Ian Thomas. Several people requested copies. I'm copying this short chapter below for the edification of people here. To me, it is a wonderful summary of what is the real Christian life, and a message I am thankful to hear over & over & over!

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The Complete Answer

From: The Indwelling Life of Christ, by Major Ian Thomas (chapter 37)

The Christians of the early church have been described as being "incorrigibly happy, completely unafraid, and nearly always in trouble."

That is gloriously true, and Paul gives us an illustration of this attitude in the second epistle to the Corinthians when he was in a situation that was beyond human endurance. "We were burdened beyond measure," he says, " ... so that we despaired even of life."

Then he goes on, "Yes, we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead" (2 Corinthians 1:8-9). He was adopting this attitude: Our present difficulty is not our problem; it is His problem. It is in the hands of our God, who raises the dead.
Here was Paul dying to self, and this dying to self allowed him to hand the whole situation over to the One indwelling him, Jesus Christ, the God of resurrection power.

Dying to self is a wonderful position to be in, because dead people cannot die, and dead people do not have problems.

You see, every time you give yourself the right to have a problem or the right to worry about something, you give yourself the right to live your own life. However, if you adopt an attitude of total dependence on the Life of the Lord Jesus, the only life with which God will ever credit you, then no matter how threatening a situation may be, you can relate it to Him. You can say, "Thank You, Lord! This is no longer my problem or my worry; it is Yours."

This is the quality of life that gives you "the peace of God that passes all understanding." It is the quality of life that staggers your neighbors, leaving them perplexed and baffled as they see you remain on such an even keel in situations which would completely demoralize them.

This is the privilege that is yours and mine in Jesus Christ. It applies to every single situation in life without exception, to every decision you may be confronted with today, to every temptation that faces you, and to every responsibility you may be called upon to carry. This truth always applies: The Lord Jesus, the God of resurrection Life, indwells you bodily with all the adequacy of the Godhead, "and you are complete in Him" (Colossians 2:10).

I love Paul's thoughts in Philippians 4: 13 in The Amplified Bible: "I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me; I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency." Paul needed no crutches, because through dependence on Christ's completeness and competency he himself was completely competent.

To be wholly and completely and exclusively dependent on Christ's competence-that is the Christian Life. It is not just the monopoly of the few, nor is it the privilege only of God's special favorites. It is the Life for which you were redeemed. Christ's precious blood was shed to reconcile you to God, so that Christ, now risen from the dead, might share His resurrection Life with you.

It does not mean you will avoid pressures and threats and discomforts, but you can know that in every situation you have the complete, total, and absolute answer... in Christ, your Life. He is the answer.

To live a life less than this is to miss the whole point of your redemption.

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." PHILIPPIANS 4:13

Question: For what current problems in particular have you been giving yourself the "right" to worry? How instead can you relate each of these situations to God, and release them to His responsibility?
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Old 11-07-2020, 10:18 AM   #23
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I didn't miss it at all. But look at the context. Christ... our Maker... is just a prop, a foil. The focus is on "you and I", the Christian.... either struggling, or relaxing. The focus is on you, who are but dust and ashes, and even worse, it is on your "experience", which is even less tenable. And for the benefit of our friends from the LC who might be lurking, I add that that is Watchman Nee's MO. Focus on the mystical indwelling Christ. Enjoy him! Meanwhile, gross sin is tolerated and covered.
What surprises me is that you donīt give any indication that you have read Thomasīs book, yet you position yourself with full assurance as if you had, just after reading a few quotes from the book. There is something wrong with that. Why do you do that?

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But you don't see Christ in his experience and enjoyment of the Father in heaven getting led down the primrose path of "mystical experience". No, he was guided by the word, a sure peg. And, as I repeated, and perhaps you missed, his experience was to be a template for ours. "Even as I obey the Father's commands, so you also must obey mine". Don't you think there's a relationship there, worth focusing on?
Yes we do see Christ talking about His experience and enjoyment of the Father, and no it does not mean that it was a "primrose path of mystical experience." He does not talk solely about that aspect, all the time, correct...so? But He does talk about it, and we can surely talk about that aspect of truth and expeirnece too. Nowhere does it say that when we share about a certain aspect of the truth that we have to talk about all aspects of truth or in a certain order of importance.
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Old 11-07-2020, 10:49 AM   #24
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The other thing I find so interesting about these discussions, is that the verses ----

What I see is a pattern of equivalents: Jesus notes some aspect of his relationship with the Father, then says the believer's relations with him are "Just as" or "even as" his are with the Father. So just as the Lord Jesus obeys the Father, we obey him. Jesus lives on the Father (his food is in keeping his commands, cf John 4:34) so do we live on him. As the Father sent him, so he sends us. How does this not represent a compelling pattern?

The focus in the gospels and Acts is not on us, it's on him. Peter preached this gospel, not of his (Peter's) enjoyment but on Jesus' resurrection. "Know ye that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified." Peter didn't get side-tracked by his own "enjoyment" or "experience". He was laser-focused on the resurrected Messiah.

And the epistles didn't leave this - they built on it. Nothing Paul did, that I can see, departed the "right hand of fellowship" of those that preceded him, including their gospels and their testimonies of Jesus.?
There are verses about many different themes or topics, but if someone talks about one aspect of the truth it does not mean that aspect is wrong because he did not mention the other topics. And yes, Jesus sets the example to obey Him, but He also says as part of that pattern
  • Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me
  • the Advocate....the Spirit of truth.....you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
  • I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me
Same in all the rest of the Scriptures. Paul many times refers to the indwelling aspect of Christ and with very strong emphasis. It is even a test of the christian faith. Should we ignore these truths? Not talk about them?
  • My children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you
  • Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Can’t you see for yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you—unless you actually fail the test?
  • To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Should we just take these truths and experiences and ignore the rest?, NO. Should we just center improperly on imaginary, subjective experiences of Christ and sin? NO. But then again we should not center improperly on any imaginary thing nor sin either.
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Old 11-09-2020, 09:45 AM   #25
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This Sunday the main sharing was in Philippians chapter 3. One thing the brother said was, "Nothing is as important to the Father as His Son." Afterwards a few of us were fellowshipping and had some realization I thought to share here.

Jesus said that He came to make the Father's name known. Who did He make this name known to? Specifically, His children. Paul then wrote in Galatians 1:16, "When it pleased God to reveal His Son in me."

What is man that God is so mindful of us? The importance of man is this (that is His regenerated believers): we have His Son in us!

I must admit that this was a little of a "duh" moment for me - of course the Father is mainly concerned about His many sons . . .
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:39 PM   #26
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Thanks, STG for sharing these posts. Very encouraging! And to aron for pointing out the dangers of subjectivism. Great stuff guys.

JJ
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Old 11-12-2020, 12:31 PM   #27
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I had two realizations today. One was from today's brothers' breakfast where someone read Galatians 4:4-7, "But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons (or "sonship"). And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!' So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God." This is a remarkable passage! At the breakfast, we had been talking about how everything happens on the timetable God plans, like all the things surrounding the 1st coming of Christ (including prophetic scriptures) - in fact, down to the year and moment of His birth and crucifixion. However, while Christ came outwardly in verse four, just as remarkable is He came as the indwelling Christ in verse six!

The other "little" realization I had today, came in my morning seeking time (right before the breakfast). I was reading verses in Daily Light about the power of the blood of Jesus. While I always strive to appreciate the blood, I believe I always thought about it in a far too objective way. It's true that it is a fact; Christ died in our stead and paid a huge price to make us the "righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor 5:21) But much more, the One who did this lives in me! So now we have not just the objective fact, but we also have the One who did it all living right inside us!!! Therefore, since the Son is being revealed in us (Gal 1:16), we, the many sons, are being brought into glory through His indwelling life and operating power in us.

I'm saying the words - now I pray for a renewing of the mind to walk in the reality of this amazing fact . . .

WOW - praise God!!!
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Old 11-16-2020, 10:13 AM   #28
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"You saw and know how Christ lived in Paul. Why? It is as if Christ had become incarnated in Paul."

Andrew Murray
Christ Liveth in Me - The Spiritual Life

https://youtu.be/kR-tAYV4Mr0
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Old 11-16-2020, 12:56 PM   #29
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"You saw and know how Christ lived in Paul. Why? It is as if Christ had become incarnated in Paul."

Andrew Murray
Christ Liveth in Me - The Spiritual Life

https://youtu.be/kR-tAYV4Mr0
I have often thought this, that the way the Apostles spoke and behaved demonstrated it was really Christ living through them! And their message is this fact - Christ in us - is true of all regenerated believers!
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