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Introductions and Testimonies Please tell everybody something about yourself. Tell us a little. Tell us a lot. Its up to you!

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Old 11-28-2016, 10:25 AM   #1
tentmaker
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Default The Gospel of my salvation ...

This would be my very first post to the board. I have watched from afar since (pretty much) the beginning of its formation, but have felt not to participate until this morning (although I have thought about doing it for quite some time now). I meet with the church and have done so for 40 years. I'm a brother who grew up in southern California. Although I've been around for a while my thoughts and considerations on some of these matters that you all discuss here might surprise you - but then again perhaps not.

Finding a suitable username seemed a small challenge. I chose the user name "tentmaker_21", based upon Acts 18:3: "and because he (Paul) was of the same craft, he lodged with them and worked; for by their occupation they were tentmakers", " i.e. tentmaker" = my aim for what I 'm doing here, and "_21" based upon this being the 21st century version of. Of course I'm not a real tentmaker (know nothing about it actually). Figuratively, I'm of the same craft as you (and still not very good at it) and desire to lodge and work with you all in various discussions, if you know what I mean. I'm retired now, but by trade held the job of mechanical engineer and did design work with prominent U.S. companies for a good part of my working life (45 years). I was very fortunate to say the least, and I am very grateful to the Lord for this.

Anyways - I'm happy to finally join you! All I can say at the moment is "Christ is Victor", no matter what my/your situation is today or will be tomorrow …
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Old 11-28-2016, 10:54 AM   #2
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

2) As I said, I meet with the church. I have been reading the posts on this website pretty much since day one of its creation. I also read Jim Moran's writings when he was active and still alive, back in the 90's, so I am not new to this sort of thing. Up to now I have not joined for two reasons, the main one being I just didn’t have the time and the second being the occasional infighting and arguing amongst yourselves (or that’s how I took it) that caused me to back way off. There are times when I said enough is enough and didn’t look in here for a period(s) of time. There are many dear ones who post here but a couple of you brothers seem downright determined to blow some away who don't somehow share your viewpoint, particularly the sisters. Or so it seems to me. I joined now because it seems to have settled down a bit and many of the issues you discuss are quite relevant to today's situation. I appreciate the honest, heartfelt and revealing writings of the many of you, the older brother Lisbon in particular (and many, many others also - just saying, please don't be offended).
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Old 11-28-2016, 11:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

About myself … I'm a nobody and would prefer to keep it that way. I met the Lord in the 1950's, when I was a young boy, 5 or 6 years old, in a small trailer park village near the Mexican border where my folks lived (in very hard times). There in the village lived there a dear missionary family who served the Lord in Mexico (White American missionaries from Minnesota). The trailer park was their humble U.S. home. They had a son, Timo (Timmy), who was my age and we played together when they were home in the U.S. At those times, in the evenings, they would gather people together, whosoever would come, around a small clothes line area to sing gospel songs and preach the gospel. They loved and served the Lord Jesus Christ no matter where they were at, in the U.S or Mexico. They lived in the sufferings of Christ and in poverty but the Lord Jesus was first place in their lives and he (the Lord) took good care of them. (I have a couple stories I could pass on – incredible things that happened, but on a small scale - (Zech 4:10)). My recollections of them was that they were happy people even living in such sparse conditions. I’m not sure how many serving ones live this way today (by real faith) but that, at a young age, had some effect on me. They brought me to the Lord with a very simple gospel message of Jesus. Call it the “low gospel” if you will, but it was the gospel of my salvation and I am still very appreciative of it. Their living, which seemed to be by the peace which is way beyond my understanding, continued to have some influence on me into my teenage years, which was a big thing for me looking back (in the 60's) and, like I said, do very much appreciate it. Eventually Timo's dad married my wife and I (in the 70's) and he was my best man at our wedding - long time ago now … lol. Although his dear folks have passed, Timo, whom I still speak with, serves the Lord to this day in similar manner as his folks (to the calling to which he was called), but is not and has never been (and probably never will be) associated with WL/LSM.
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Old 11-28-2016, 11:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

4) For me and the LC, we (my wife and I) came in around the time of the Revelation training, in 1976, so I am beginning the 4th decade. Time flies. Back then I/we were seeking Christ and desiring to know him, his word and his purpose with those who were of the same mind. The meetings back in those days were very dynamic (versus being very static to which we were in at the other place at the time). If you got to the meeting hall 15-20 minutes early you sat in the way back of the building. I am sure many of you remember those days. It seems quite opposite today. My wife and I came out of a well known "denomination" and it took us a while to understand and accept this way, the whole LC meeting style. What attracted us was the Word of God and how it was opened up (particularly the book of Genesis), how it was appreciated and discussed amongst all who were there, which was mostly young people, our age or a bit older. The enjoyment of the Lord was real and operating. The attendees generally controlled a good portion of the flow of the meetings and the elders (in the locality we lived in anyways) were true overseers, i.e. not showing how big their muscles and fists were when they were offended by some little thing, but if something was not right they handled it with grace in a spirit of meekness. At least in our place. They seemed real shepherds, not the CEO, CFO, COO, etc. mindset of some of the leaders in some of the localities today.
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Old 11-28-2016, 11:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tentmaker_21 View Post
There are many dear ones who post here but a couple of you brothers seem downright determined to blow some away who don't somehow share your viewpoint, particularly the sisters. Or so it seems to me. I joined now because it seems to have settled down a bit and many of the issues you discuss are quite relevant to today's situation. I appreciate the honest, heartfelt and revealing writings of the many of you, the older brother Lisbon in particular (and many, many others also - just saying, please don't be offended).
Thank you so much for this constructive criticism. Many of us have been hashing out these matters online for over a decade now. I think sometimes we forget there REALLY ARE people out their lurking and reading. No doubt many of our "honest, heartfelt and revealing writings" come out pretty ruff and tumble at times. As you probably have noticed, the forum is mainly populated by former LC members, and is sorely in need of brothers and sisters such as yourself to come and give their points of view. So welcome! Thanks again for taking the time to register and post, and we look forward to your valuable contributions.

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Old 11-28-2016, 12:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

UntoHim ... You're welcome and Thank You. Thank you for all your labors in keeping this board active and monitored. It is appreciated very much.

5) a little more for today ...
* I saw the Max R thing unfold in 1978. It bothered me greatly with all the goofiness going on. That was a strange time and caused us to reconsider. But the leading ones stood up to act appropriately and little damage was done to me. Some, of who I thought were strong brothers left though, never to come back so that I am aware of.

I saw the "new way" develop in the mid 80's and participated to some extent in it. The book "Words of Training For The New Way" came out in 1987. It was based on a series of messages Bro Lee gave in Taiwan. That book really bothered me as there are things written in there that are questionable, yet there was/is no one to question about it, if you know what I mean. You just kept and keep your mouth shut. That was a strange time for me as the so-called fermentation was taking place and there was not a clear sky above anyone, or so it seemed. I was there during the Thanksgiving Conference in 1988 in Pasadena. I do remember Francis Ball closing one meeting stating that "he would rather be an ostrich with his head in the sand". (We had Francis at our home for dinner one night before that meeting but nothing like that was ever discussed). I did not know what he was talking about, having his head in the sand. I was not made aware of the turmoil that was going on then as I was working quite a bit then and was not into the main stream of fellowship so I missed out on a lot of that, and glad I did actually. I just dove into my work. Looks like one could get all the details of that period of time on this website … lol.

Regarding your website here, if I were to speak the things I want to say I'd need at least an hour to just get started. I have a lot to say but will stop here and would consider this a brief introduction ….

Take care and stay in his grace ....

Brother G.L.
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tentmaker_21 View Post
Up to now I have not joined for two reasons, the main one being I just didn’t have the time and the second being the occasional infighting and arguing amongst yourselves (or that’s how I took it) that caused me to back way off. There are times when I said enough is enough and didn’t look in here for a period(s) of time. There are many dear ones who post here but a couple of you brothers seem downright determined to blow some away who don't somehow share your viewpoint, particularly the sisters. Or so it seems to me.
Welcome to the forum, tentmaker_21!

Guilty as charged! I grew up in a large family with four brothers and sisters, (four of each) so "occasional infighting and arguing" is absolutely "normal" to me. Sorry it turned you off for so long. I've had to apologize many times in my life, so I prolly should do it again.

I too was a M.E. whose first training was Revelations in the summer of '76. I really was carried away in the Spirit, experiencing a miracle of being delivered from cigarettes, and yet to be honest, many unhealthy things were sown into my heart, which I must correctly identify today as leaven.

West of the Missouri? Never heard that expression before! Anyways, I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
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Old 11-28-2016, 01:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

Regarding the infighting and arguing wasn't thinking of you when I posted that . I hope that when I post in the future one doesn't take something I say that way .... lol.

There is leaven in the church, but it is hidden (Matt 13:33). There is no escaping it because it is not visable. Not much is said about that is there?

What's an M.E mean again? Can't come up with the meaning at the moment. Probably something real easy .....

Yes, west of the Missouri, but don't go to far.
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tentmaker_21 View Post
What's an M.E mean again?
Mechanical Engineer
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

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Mechanical Engineer
Aaahhh, of course … didn't even consider that … and it's not getting better as I get older ...


As one M.E to another, Thanks for sharing that.
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Old 11-30-2016, 12:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

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Originally Posted by tentmaker_21 View Post
Aaahhh, of course … didn't even consider that … and it's not getting better as I get older ...


As one M.E to another, Thanks for sharing that.
Occasionally I get this "Dear, you're slipping" from my wife, but I dare not say that to her!
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

3a) I need to add some more to the post which I spoke of concerning the missionary family:

Let me say this first: I'm not wanting to tell sea stories here, but some of the things I experienced in my youth had some effect on me to this day. I did not realize this until lately. Since I have retired I have more time to think about things in my life without having my head all crammed full of other things. In other words time to think about how did I get to where I am today?

As I said earlier my parents lived in a small mobile home park but later, as my dad did a bit better, we moved to a nicer one close by. In 1968 another missionary family moved in to the trailer next door. They were a husband and wife with their grandson, Lee K. (I thought about changing his name so it is not confused with WL, but won’t). Lee was a couple years older than me. He had epilepsy and was mostly home schooled. I was in high school at the time and we became friends. One night after school we were hanging out in my dad’s new car, a used car actually but new to us. Lee pulled out a bible and read to me from Matt 24. (Lee was under 20 years old at the time, and thinking about it now, things like this do not happen very often or not that I’m aware of). I had read the bible before but not that part, or so it seemed. Matt 24 provides some details of the environment existing on earth before Lord’s return in the last days. Lee shared that with me, reading each verse and telling me that the Lord is coming soon, that these verses say so. It sure seemed that way. The headline news of the day seemed to confirm it as well. Lee said he thought the Lord would return before 1970 and to get ready. I remember thinking I did not want him to return so fast as I wasn’t ready (not so sure if I’m ready even now). I would read that chapter again and again to make sure that those things were really so. Around 48/46 years have come and gone since then. One verse in Matt 24 that sobers me is verse 40 … “one shall be taken and the other left”

Around that time a group of missionaries moved to, and lived on, some acreage near to where we lived. Lee and his grandparents soon moved there. Tim and his parents moved there as well, in their humble old motor home. I would visit them and got to know some of the missionary brothers there. I do not recall hearing any of denomination or any name promoted or exalted, except the name of Jesus. I think some of them worked with the orphanages in Mexico. They were good people, good brothers, and they treated me right. One day a scorpion stung one of them. They gathered around the person and prayed over him, next thing you know the wound healed as if nothing happened. To me it was - Wow!! (and they didn’t need Obamacare)

In 1973, Timo invited me to spend a week with him and his parents down in Mexico, about 45-50 miles south of the border. There they lived off of a dirt road a few miles from the main highway in a very humble home with an older Mexican sister named Grandma whom they loved and took care of. They had meetings with the people of the village at that house at certain times of the week. Whosoever would come was welcome to come. Sometimes they even fed them. I quickly found out that their habit was, in the mornings, to get in the word and have some prayer before breakfast and, in the evenings, the same before going to bed. The first night they lent me a bible and we read something from Hebrews. A couple comments were made about the text and then we prayed some. I wasn’t very good at it so they mainly did the praying. Timo’s mom prayed something very softly but she was not speaking English, nor did I think it was Spanish. They all spoke fluent Spanish. The next morning Timo wanted to take me for a hike, so as we get ready to leave he hands me a hat and a rifle. I asked him what was the rifle was for. He said we’d need them in case we ran into any coyotes or rattlesnakes. He said the coyotes would come down and get the chickens, but not to worry we’d be ok. He showed me how to use the rifle, then he put the safety on and told me not to take it off unless he said so. While on the hike I asked him what language his mom was speaking during her prayer. He said he didn’t know, she had a gift from the Lord and sometimes that’s how she spoke when she prayed. Oh, okay, it was a gift. I knew nothing about that sort of thing. Later I wondered if she was praying for me and didn’t want me to know about it. I surely needed it. My hair was down to my shoulders and I was wild and scruffy looking. At that point in my life I didn’t care.
I never knew who sponsored or supported them. They never said “we’re this” or “we’re that” or “we meet on this ground”. But they talked much about Jesus to whom they lived for and served. There’s much more I’d like to share about this family but I’ll leave it right here.

In 1981, The company I worked for hired a young man and they put him to work close to me. I soon found out that he was a devout Pentecostal. A Holy Roller. Everything in his life seemed to be centered on going to meetings, speaking in tongues and having a good time doing it. (Seems a bit familiar except for the ts). He asked me if I’d ever spoke in tongues to which I said no. He became concerned and then told me that I wasn’t saved (he used Mark 16:17 to make his point), that I needed to come to his meeting that night and get the gift of tongues and get saved. To make a long story short I cut off talking to him altogether as the conversations always came back to the gospel of tongue speaking. Later as things calmed down, we just became friends and I left it at that. He had no heart to hear anything that did not pertain to within his circle of meeting.

From these two brief experiences I saw the two sides of tongue speaking. One real and one not so real. Actually it’s not up to me to determine whether they are real or not. The earth is pretty big, there may be more people doing it than we know (real tongue speaking). This was just my experience of it. I myself have never done so, that is, to speak in tongues, and I don't know of anyone who does.



The things I experienced and just shared with you will not fit in LC meeting framework(s) but felt to share it here. I have no desire to make this a case for or case against tongue speaking thread. It's just something I saw is all.
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Old 12-05-2016, 08:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Gospel of my salvation ...

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Originally Posted by tentmaker_21 View Post
I would visit them and got to know some of the missionary brothers there. I do not recall hearing any of denomination or any name promoted or exalted, except the name of Jesus..
Welcome aboard the discussion forum. A couple decades ago when I was a rabid LC enthusiast I'd have said, "What a waste; only the name of Jesus." Seriously; to me faith in Jesus was merely the qualifier to the local church life. If someone got "only Jesus" and not the ministry of the age, the up-to-date speaking, the central lane of God's current move, the intensified Spirit in the Vital Groups, yada yada, one was seriously deficient. Like Apollos only hearing of the baptism of repentance in Acts 19.

Well 20 years later I realize that "only Jesus" is beyond my height, depth, breadth. And now the church is a place I go, not to talk about church, but to talk about Jesus.

So I changed, yes. But the Lee Museum didn't change much that I can tell. Having said that, I had a great time, was treated well, missed the worst of the "storms" and "turmoils". The elders in my local church were as undomineering as any Christians could be, as were the rest of them.
But I left because we claimed to represent the church and the Body, but in my group we didn't have anything to do with them! Every week it was the same 25 people, telling ourselves how lucky we were to be there, and everyone else was so deficient. But no connection. No outreach. No sharing. We were just huddled in a corner, like Jack Horner. I got tired of it and went "back to Christianity".

If I'm too vitriolic on this forum, I do apologize. But I object to young naive seekers being taken advantage of and merchandised. I object to the Bible being treated as "natural" or "revelatory of Christ" apparently by the whims of the oracle (so-called). Recently in a training, they said Psalm 45, showing the marriage of the king to the Tyrean princess (Jezebel?!?), was the highest and best psalm. Arrows in the heart of the enemy and all. Elsewhere in psalm similar verbiage was roundly panned as natural, fallen. Why? Because Lee said so.

So that really disgusts me, frankly. Who gives permission to treat the text as one's plaything, to wave it around or toss it away depending on the mood of the day? Where in the NT is the precedent for such kind of schizophrenic interpretation?

See, I'm already boiling over. (I have a small kettle, as you see). Anyway, this post was just to say welcome and thanks for sharing. The forum would be much richer if we all accepted one another's journeys for what they are. Certainly yours has been as precious to you as anyone else's has been to them.

Peace and God bless.
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