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Old 02-17-2015, 10:42 PM   #1
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Default Feeling stuck.

Hi guys!

Just a quick background on me. I am currently a university student and a Christian for 6 months. Not long after I got saved, I joined a Christian club at University, but at that time, I didn't know that they were actually affiliated with the Local Church. I am also currently part of the church in their locality. Because of this, as a new Christian, I took all of the teachings of Witness Lee as the truth and was basically taught not to question it, with the responses usually being 'get into your spirit' or 'gain more Christ' or 'if it feels right, it probably is right', rather than question it. We would normally read books by Witness Lee and seldom read the Bible. If we were to read the Bible, we should read the Recovery version, since they claim it's the best translation with footnotes as a guide to understanding the passages.

I got heavily involved and influenced by the group, largely because of pressure as they said I was 'useful to the Lord' and because I didn't want to ruin the oneness that they claim to have. I practised what I was taught such as pray-reading, chanting Amen and reading the HWFMR. I have also been to a few conferences. Even though I have done all this, thinking I would gain more Christ, I found that my relationship with God wasn't stronger and I felt a little unhappy, although not really expressing it to them. I didn't want to question them because I wanted to keep the oneness. Even so, what they taught didn't feel right, but I was so conflicted because I really wanted it to be something of God, so I forced myself to feel right about it.

When I found out that they were affiliated with the Local church a month ago, I began doing research on the group on the internet. Many largely many claimed it to be a cult and that really hurt me because I felt betrayed and felt lied to. However, I do not know if they are actually a cult since there are differing opinions so as a side question, I would like to ask if they are actually a cult or not. They seem to keep the core doctrines of Christianity but I'm not too sure.

I really want to leave but I am stuck. I have tried to reduce the frequency of going to church on Sunday and being involved with my club at university, but they constantly call, asking why I'm not there. I have lied to them a few times because I really didn't want to be there sometimes. I'll feel bad if I leave because they spent much of their time training me up. But I am unhappy there. I don't understand why I feel that these practises don't feel right to me.

I have joined another church in the past few weeks but don't go there frequently. However, I definitely feel it is alot better than the Local church I am in now. They care for each other. We read the Bible. It feels so much like family, and my relationship with God is so much stronger. I want to remain there and attend more frequently, but I don't know how I can tell my Local Church group without hurting them too much.

Sorry for this long post about me basically complaining about the Local Church. God Bless!
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Old 02-18-2015, 09:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

I don't think they are a cult as in "let's everyone drink this cyanide laced koolaid so we can all go to Jesus together", but they are probably close to a sect in that their source of authority are the writings of Witness Lee and to some degree Watchman Nee. I would continue in your new church and make some new friends that could pray with you while you continue to disengage from the LC. Don't let them pressure you into doing anything, they can be very manipulative. Don't go to anymore conferences and use your spring break to be away from them. Same over the summer...maybe by next fall they will have forgotten about you and you can continue your relationship with the Lord Jesus with a more healthy non-LC church group. I'm praying with you!
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Old 02-18-2015, 09:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

I wish I had some good advice to give to you, but I can completely understand where you're coming from. I was born and raised in the LC, and although I always had reservations about it, it wasn't until my involvement with the LC campus work that I was really forced to consider what I was involved in. For the record, I'm a current LC member who is wanting out (just waiting for the right time). The LC is not an easy group to just get up and leave. If you've already attended another church, it sounds like you're ahead of the game.

Getting to what I really wanted to say, I encountered many of the same issues as you with the LC campus work. Since I had been around for awhile, there was the expectation that I would help out with the campus work at my University. I was okay with that at first. It seemed like a good thing, to try and bring people to the Lord and have Bible studies with them. What I quickly encountered was a disturbing amount of dishonesty in how our campus club would both present ourselves to others and in what our "Bible studies" really were.

First of all, with all the LC University clubs I've seen, there are composed of a core group of LC members and the only non-LC members would be new recruits or campus "contacts" as they might call them. People would come to us and ask us what church we are associated with or ask us what church we go to. I heard people give responses like "we are Christians from various backgrounds". That didn't answer their question, it was just sidestepping it. It caused me to consider, why would they want to avoid that question? Is it because they were ashamed that all the members attend the same church, or was it because they didn't want people to immediately know about the association to the LC? I'm pretty sure it was the latter. I always felt that it was dishonest to hide our association. Why not be upfront about that?

The second issue is like you mentioned, there was this pressing need to try to get everyone using the Recovery Version Bible (RcV) along with other WL materials. When I started attending these campus Bible studies, I was very naive about what it would entail. Obviously since I was a LC member, I already had a RcV Bible, so naturally, that is what I used. I first noticed a problem when newcomers would attend our Bible studies and bring their own versions of the Bible. Many who came were already Christians. Of course, no one outside the LC is going to have a RcV. When people came, some would start telling them about the RcV and how great it is. At the same time, they would tell them how they're welcome to use whatever version they are comfortable using. Here is the catch: we spent the majority of the time in our Bible studies comprehensively reading RcV footnotes. So if someone didn't have or desire to use the RcV, they wouldn't be a fit in our Bible studies. I don't even like to call it a real Bible study, because it wasn't, it was a RcV reading group.

Regarding what is on the internet, I think there are two categories of criticism of the LC, the first being in regards to orthodoxy, and the second being related to internal "turmoils" and splits that LC has gone through over the years. The second category of writings is what really caught my interest, because I began to see the true colors of the LC come out. I did have some reservations about some of Lee's non-orthodox teachings, but I was never really in a position where I could criticize those. When I read the stories of ex-members and some of the situations that they encountered, that is where I really realized that I need to find my way out. I also began to understand why some of the peculiarities (such as only using the RcV Bible exist). I think the bottom line is that if you are concerned about things there is a reason for that, don't ignore that feeling.
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

The sooner you leave the Local Church Movement (LCM) the easier it is to do. The longer you stay the more they will condition you to be unable to fit in anywhere else.

I was like you. I was a new Christian and a new college student and bumped into some LCMers on campus. Next thing you knew I had moved in with some "brothers." They weren't bad people, they were just being misled like me. But I stayed too long and had no alternative ideas to theirs, so theirs controlled me.

The problem with the LCM is its view of things is so narrow (and ignorant) and they don't tolerate other views. So they are warped and you are bound to be warped by them. Example: Oneness doesn't mean you let some little group or its tin horn leaders control your life. Their teaching about "oneness" just turns out to be a way to control people. They'd never admit that, but it's true.

As a new Christian you need to find some good mainstream Bible-based fellowship that doesn't place personal demands on your life. Be a young person. Have fun. Don't put so much pressure on yourself to be "useful." Get to know a lot of different Christians. Make a lot of Christian friends, but don't think you have be identified with some group. Don't send down roots too quickly. Read and pray. Take it a day at a time. Let God be your friend. He is.

And whatever you do, don't let the LCMers make you feel guilty. That's their personal hell. It doesn't have to be yours.
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HERn View Post
I don't think they are a cult as in "let's everyone drink this cyanide laced koolaid so we can all go to Jesus together", but they are probably close to a sect in that their source of authority are the writings of Witness Lee and to some degree Watchman Nee. I would continue in your new church and make some new friends that could pray with you while you continue to disengage from the LC. Don't let them pressure you into doing anything, they can be very manipulative. Don't go to anymore conferences and use your spring break to be away from them. Same over the summer...maybe by next fall they will have forgotten about you and you can continue your relationship with the Lord Jesus with a more healthy non-LC church group. I'm praying with you!
I'm with you. Not a cult, but sectarian beliefs and practices. My disengage approach may be attend home meetings, but begin attending the non-LSM church for Lord's Day worship. Gradually stop attending home meetings. More often than not, they won't bother to call you.
However, those that do care for you will call.
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Old 02-18-2015, 12:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I got heavily involved and influenced by the group, largely because of pressure as they said I was 'useful to the Lord' and because I didn't want to ruin the oneness that they claim to have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
The problem with the LCM is its view of things is so narrow (and ignorant) and they don't tolerate other views. So they are warped and you are bound to be warped by them. Example: Oneness doesn't mean you let some little group or its tin horn leaders control your life. Their teaching about "oneness" just turns out to be a way to control people. They'd never admit that, but it's true.
I never saw a ministry talk so much about oneness, and yet could never get along with anyone else, neither insiders nor outsiders. They talk oneness, yet are so very intolerant of others. Real oneness is oneness with the Lord Jesus, not with some demanding ministry. Real oneness is the fruit of love.

The problem with the LC's is not the many devoted brothers and sisters. The problem is with their ministry leaders. They demand a non-Biblical loyalty which can only be accomplished by a system of man-pleasing. Their oneness thus becomes an outward show in the flesh, rather than the inward oneness of the Spirit.
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Old 02-18-2015, 12:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
I'm with you. Not a cult, but sectarian beliefs and practices. My disengage approach may be attend home meetings, but begin attending the non-LSM church for Lord's Day worship. Gradually stop attending home meetings. More often than not, they won't bother to call you.
However, those that do care for you will call.
And most of you know where I stand on it. As an organization, I think it is a cult, even though Kool-aid is not a fear. So that means it is a cult of lesser sins.

But the methods of control are insidious. And if you (Unregistered) are still seeing the problems and recognize them, now is the time to get out. The system is designed so that the problems eventually hide from view. You are quickly taught to substitute something that does not sound bad for something that is clearly true with the result that you are clinging to something with the form of truth and goodness but with none of the actual truth and goodness to go with it.

As Igzy has said, leave as soon as possible. You don't have to give them a reason. You don't have to get into a debate on the correctness of anything they said. (Besides, they are skilled in making their ways sound unassailable even though they most certainly are worthy of being assailed.)

Just quit. Go to a different place for lunch or to study. You don't have to e rude, but if you see them, nod and go on about your business. You have things to do that do not need them tagging along to work their way into your life like a spiritual-looking teddy bear cactus (the kind whose barbs have reverse hooks that catch you and as you fight to get rid of them, you actually get caught more).
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Welcome to the Forum, "Feeling Stuck".

Thanks for taking the time to come and share with us, this is what this forum is all about!

When you get a chance, please consider requesting membership by sending an email with your requested UserName to LocalChurchDiscussions@Gmail.Com and I'll be sure to get back to you right away with a temporary password and basic instructions. One of the many benefits of membership is it gives you access to the Private Message system, in which you can communicate with other members in a confidential and private manner.

As far as your particular situation, I would second the motion of making a relatively quick transition to an established evangelical Christian church in your area. If you are in a major metropolitan area I would suggest you google "Acts29" and see if there is an Acts29 network church in your area. Most of the churches in this network are geared around young people and new believers. The churches and leaders who want to join the network must submit to a rigorous and thorough approval process, minimizing the chances that any leader with questionable qualification or character will be allowed to hurt the flock of God. But the main thing is to do your research and make sure the church is known and respected as a solidly evangelical, Gospel driven fellowship with a known history in your locality.

In regards to dealing with the dear brothers and sisters in the Local Church, it would probably be best to slip away as quickly and quietly as possible. The simple truth is that they are of the mindset that they are the only true church in your city. Oh, they would not word it this way, but I can assure you that they will have plenty of negative things to say about anywhere you go, and the more you try to make the transition easier by drawing it out, the more they will try to convince you that you are "leaving God's one move on earth".

If some want to become augmentative, just refer them to our forum, we would live to have them come and join the club!
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Old 02-18-2015, 02:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Just a quick background on me. I am currently a university student and a Christian for 6 months.
if you have only been saved for 6 months then you are very vulnerable. Anyone who seems to know what they are talking about will be able to influence you if you are not careful. So be careful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Not long after I got saved, I joined a Christian club at University, but at that time, I didn't know that they were actually affiliated with the Local Church. I am also currently part of the church in their locality. Because of this, as a new Christian, I took all of the teachings of Witness Lee as the truth and was basically taught not to question it
If you are a new Christian, and you start to meet with some group, without any other point of reference you'll take everything they say as if it was true and complete. But is it? You really don't know. They say it is, of course, but how are you to tell? So don't "sign on the dotted line" just because you enjoy a couple of songs, or someone's testimony. Don't commit to anyone or anything. You are free: don't give up your freedom so easily. Christ purchased your freedom on the cross with His blood. Don't let go of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I got heavily involved and influenced by the group, largely because of pressure as they said I was 'useful to the Lord' and because I didn't want to ruin the oneness that they claim to have.
I am repeating myself, but it is worth repeating: you are vulnerable to pressure. (I will provide my suggested solution below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I do not know if they are actually a cult since there are differing opinions so as a side question, I would like to ask if they are actually a cult or not. They seem to keep the core doctrines of Christianity but I'm not too sure.
There has been quite some discussion about this subject. Pretty much everyone who's evaluated them say that they are "unbalanced"... they take very narrow positions on doctrines (ideas from the Bible) and they argue with other Christians. They do name-calling, as you probably have noticed -- everyone who doesn't take their position is called "twisted" and "dark" and "degraded" and "deformed" and so forth. Whether or not they are a cult, they are certainly not a very healthy group, in the opinion of many Christians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I really want to leave but I am stuck. I have tried to reduce the frequency of going to church on Sunday and being involved with my club at university, but they constantly call, asking why I'm not there.
They have a tactic of putting pressure on the "newbie" to get them to conform. You just have to realize that is how it is. Any group that pressures you, that should be a "red flag" warning you to be careful. And that's a reason many Christians don't feel comfortable about them (besides their questionable doctrines).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I have joined another church in the past few weeks ...my relationship with God is so much stronger. I want to remain there and attend more frequently, but I don't know how I can tell my Local Church group without hurting them too much.
You say, "I don't know how I can tell the Local Church group about my other church without hurting them too much." I would say this: the reason that you don't know how to tell them what you are doing is that you don't know how to tell yourself. You don't feel comfortable enough with what you are doing to be able to present it to others. So first, get comfortable with what you are doing. You have to find a story that makes sense to you before you can make sense to others. And it will take time. Give yourself the gift of time.

Here is what might make you more comfortable: don't feel pressure to "join" any church group. Tell yourself that you plan on meeting with 10 different churches over the next 10 months. Or 6 over the next 6 months. Whatever. Just be open. Don't try to "join" anything. You are young, you don't know what is going on except that there is a God and Jesus is His Son, and our Savior. Beyond that, what church is good to meet with? What is the truth in God's word? Where to go? What to do? You simply don't know. So don't pretend. You are uncomfortable because you are trying to defend and explain something that you don't even know, yet!

And tell yourself that you deserve the best. You aren't going to go join with the first group you find. Look around. Talk to people. The good church groups will be very cool with that, and will support you. The not-so-good church groups won't be so happy with that idea (at least privately, though they may smile at you). The people that are really connected to God's love, will love you no matter what you do, and no matter who you meet with. The unbalanced and needy people will "love bomb" you if you do what they say (at least at first!) but watch how quickly they turn off the Love Spigot when you don't go with the program. Usually pretty quickly. When they see that you are interested in meeting with different Christians besides them, they won't "waste their time" with you.

So if I were you I would decide to look around. Ask God, "Please show me what You are doing here, in my town. I want to be part of that." Don't you think God would like to hear that prayer? Then just cautiously follow Him. He will take care of you.

Then, when you go to different groups, if they ask you what you are doing, tell them, "I am a new Christian. I want to see what Christians are doing around here. So I wanted to visit you and say hello." The Christians who are connected to God will support your journey. The unbalanced and needy Christians will try to pressure you to take their program, and not meet with anyone else. Pretty quickly you will be able to tell who is who. You'll be surprised how quickly the Lord shows you what is going on!

Peace and God bless.
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Old 02-18-2015, 05:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
if you have only been saved for 6 months then you are very vulnerable. Anyone who seems to know what they are talking about will be able to influence you if you are not careful. So be careful.

If you are a new Christian, and you start to meet with some group, without any other point of reference you'll take everything they say as if it was true and complete. But is it? You really don't know. They say it is, of course, but how are you to tell? So don't "sign on the dotted line" just because you enjoy a couple of songs, or someone's testimony. Don't commit to anyone or anything. You are free: don't give up your freedom so easily. Christ purchased your freedom on the cross with His blood. Don't let go of it.

I am repeating myself, but it is worth repeating: you are vulnerable to pressure. (I will provide my suggested solution below).

There has been quite some discussion about this subject. Pretty much everyone who's evaluated them say that they are "unbalanced"... they take very narrow positions on doctrines (ideas from the Bible) and they argue with other Christians. They do name-calling, as you probably have noticed -- everyone who doesn't take their position is called "twisted" and "dark" and "degraded" and "deformed" and so forth. Whether or not they are a cult, they are certainly not a very healthy group, in the opinion of many Christians.

They have a tactic of putting pressure on the "newbie" to get them to conform. You just have to realize that is how it is. Any group that pressures you, that should be a "red flag" warning you to be careful. And that's a reason many Christians don't feel comfortable about them (besides their questionable doctrines).

You say, "I don't know how I can tell the Local Church group about my other church without hurting them too much." I would say this: the reason that you don't know how to tell them what you are doing is that you don't know how to tell yourself. You don't feel comfortable enough with what you are doing to be able to present it to others. So first, get comfortable with what you are doing. You have to find a story that makes sense to you before you can make sense to others. And it will take time. Give yourself the gift of !
Just yesterday my "story" finally became clear to me and that is that the LSM LC is not a healthy place for a christian to live. This is what I'm telling the saints that are dear to me.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:38 PM   #11
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Hello again!

I just have to say how amazed I was about seeing these responses. I really appreciate each and every one of them and I am truly blessed to see so many people looking after me, even during this situation!

From looking at these posts, I can definitely see the need to leave the group as soon as I can. The longer I do stay in this group, the harder it will be to get out. Also, all the points you have mentioned about the methods used in the Local Church to try and keep me have been used on me in some way or another. Now I can see clearly that they are a very controlling, and as aron said, whether they are a cult or not, is not a healthy Christian living. I have noticed that being with the LC has really impacted on my life, not for the better.

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As Igzy has said, leave as soon as possible. You don't have to give them a reason. You don't have to get into a debate on the correctness of anything they said. (Besides, they are skilled in making their ways sound unassailable even though they most certainly are worthy of being assailed.)

Just quit. Go to a different place for lunch or to study. You don't have to e rude, but if you see them, nod and go on about your business. You have things to do that do not need them tagging along to work their way into your life like a spiritual-looking teddy bear cactus (the kind whose barbs have reverse hooks that catch you and as you fight to get rid of them, you actually get caught more).
That is definitely what I want to do, but it probably easier said than done. I have tried to ignore their phone calls but they are very insistent on calling me. I will try to occupy myself more by having a part-time job and focusing more on my uni work so I have less time for them. I feel like the reason they say I am useful is because I have plenty of free time and are taking advantage of that. They do expect me to do the training after I finish university and are very adamant on me going so I can 'gain more Christ'. I definitely do not want to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
You say, "I don't know how I can tell the Local Church group about my other church without hurting them too much." I would say this: the reason that you don't know how to tell them what you are doing is that you don't know how to tell yourself. You don't feel comfortable enough with what you are doing to be able to present it to others. So first, get comfortable with what you are doing. You have to find a story that makes sense to you before you can make sense to others. And it will take time. Give yourself the gift of time.

Here is what might make you more comfortable: don't feel pressure to "join" any church group. Tell yourself that you plan on meeting with 10 different churches over the next 10 months. Or 6 over the next 6 months. Whatever. Just be open. Don't try to "join" anything. You are young, you don't know what is going on except that there is a God and Jesus is His Son, and our Savior. Beyond that, what church is good to meet with? What is the truth in God's word? Where to go? What to do? You simply don't know. So don't pretend. You are uncomfortable because you are trying to defend and explain something that you don't even know, yet!
Couldn't have said it any better! I am currently in the process of looking for other churches as well, but the one that I'm in (not the LC) is currently one I am liking. They have the core Christian doctrines, they are very open to discussion, there is no pressure to stay in the church and they definitely have genuine care and love for others that was missing in the LC. They have Bible study, and youth group, as well as social events, which was lacking at the LC and it looks encouraging. They even encouraged me to not stay just for the sake the church but to be open to exploring other churches to see what they are like, which is quite surprising actually! I can see that church as being my second family and I can see the expression of God's love in many of them! However, I am definitely taking their advice to be open and look around other churches.

When I am comfortable, I will explain to them why I am leaving once I know that this church is for me, which should be very soon. I can't wait to experience true freedom when I am out. I will keep praying for God to lead the way for me!

On a short note, I am also Australian =). It seems that the LC and their methods in Australia is not much different than in America!
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hello again!

I just have to say how amazed I was about seeing these responses. I really appreciate each and every one of them and I am truly blessed to see so many people looking after me, even during this situation! ...
Dear Unregistered,

Your sharing is encouraging. I believe you are lucky that you have only been involved with them for six months, and I wish you strength and peace as you find your way over the coming months. Personally I've found that being engaged in studies and work is a helpful situation in which to make such a transition.

Also, I would say that for you to ask these questions is probably not so much complaining, rather it is more like you are being cautious and taking care of yourself as an adult. I find that when people expect others to not keep their own eyes and ears open, this should be a bit of a warning that something may be amiss.
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Old 02-19-2015, 04:03 AM   #13
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

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Hello again!

On a short note, I am also Australian =). It seems that the LC and their methods in Australia is not much different than in America!
I would never have guessed. You definitely speak good English.
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am currently in the process of looking for other churches as well, but the one that I'm in (not the LC) is currently one I am liking. They have the core Christian doctrines, they are very open to discussion, there is no pressure to stay in the church and they definitely have genuine care and love for others that was missing in the LC. They have Bible study, and youth group, as well as social events, which was lacking at the LC and it looks encouraging. They even encouraged me to not stay just for the sake the church but to be open to exploring other churches to see what they are like, which is quite surprising actually! I can see that church as being my second family and I can see the expression of God's love in many of them! However, I am definitely taking their advice to be open and look around other churches.
The key, I think, is to realize that it's really a simple narrative. It's deep and profound, yes, and will take a lifetime to unravel, but at its core the narrative is simple. It's something like this: God, our Father, loves us. But God has a dilemma because He's also holy, and righteous, and we are somewhat less than that. We are sinners. Think of a rich man, who has many possessions, but his son is a criminal, drug addict, who's on a drug-fueled rampage. The father can't do much to express that love, can he? Even though he loves the son, first the son has to "clean up his act", because the father is righteous. The father can't just pretend the criminal activity doesn't exist. Then the father would also be unrighteous, and he can't do that. The father can never violate his righteousness!

So God our Father sent His Son, to give Himself for our sins. And the Son said what, to us? "Love one another. Love God with your whole heart and soul and strength. And do unto each other as you'd have done to you." Simple. As you do to others, it will be done to you. (Matt 7:12). It doesn't get much simpler than that, does it? Therefore the gospel was very popular, and attractive; if someone sinned, they didn't have to go up to Jerusalem and kill a bird or a calf. And one doesn't have to get circumcised, or keep dietary restrictions, or attend to Sabbaths and feasts and new moons. Just love one another. "Forgive others their trespasses, and God will forgive your trespasses." (Matt 6:14,15) Simple.

Now, when you meet other Christians, just keep that simple story in front of yourself. Tell it to yourself repeatedly, and tell it to everyone around you (Obviously I don't mean what I wrote above; I mean tell yourself the gospel narrative in simple words that you can really understand, and grasp in your daily walk).

If you present a simple yet profound story to others of God's saving love in Jesus Christ, you'll find something interesting. The "complicated" people will say, "No, that's not enough. You have to meet on the proper ground. You have to do this and that. Everyone else is wrong but us. Etc etc". Or they will say, "Yes! That's it! Hooray for God's salvation! Amen, hallelujah!" In other words, you'll either find that they try to lay burdens on you, or you'll find that they celebrate along with you, and rejoice. By this you'll get a good idea of who God wants you to hang out with. May God bless your journey. Be careful and stay safe.
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:06 AM   #15
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Any group which has one pope, one dictator, one king, is a cult in my seeing. There is nothing resembling a pope or dictator in the New Testament. In fact the Lord told His apostles that they were to be servants. Servants and dictators have nothing in common.
And for anyone who has seen thru the facade and wants to leave, I think the less you say is to your advantage. I say "I go to Grace Bible church" with no explanation. Take your freedom in Christ.
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Unregistered Guest I've been out of the local church a long time. Life hasn't always been great or easy since then but one thing comforts me: It could always be worse, I could still be in the local church.

Plus, thanks to a power hungry elder, that was appointed by Witness Lee, I saw clearly that the local church is a cult. Moreover, I know lots that have come out of the local church and most all admit that they were in a cult.

So run bro run ... away from the local church ... as fast as you can.
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Old 02-20-2015, 05:02 PM   #17
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

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Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Unregistered Guest I've been out of the local church a long time. Life hasn't always been great or easy since then but one thing comforts me: It could always be worse, I could still be in the local church.

Plus, thanks to a power hungry elder, that was appointed by Witness Lee, I saw clearly that the local church is a cult. Moreover, I know lots that have come out of the local church and most all admit that they were in a cult.

So run bro run ... away from the local church ... as fast as you can.
The fact that the LC has a dictator or now politburo, is enough for me to classify it a cult. The RCC with its pope is little different except its size and the lack of response of its parishners. I know plenty of catholics that pay little attention to what the pope says. When the hierarchy of the LC speaks excathedra you listen, keep quiet, or leave. What a mess!

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Old 02-22-2015, 10:33 AM   #18
ZoeGrace
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

First of all, I am so happy that you have become a brother in Christ. I am also thankful that you are questioning the practices of the Local Church. It really is such an intense experience in their group, and like you mentioned, the emphasis tends to run on “feeling right” whether it is biblically accurate or not. I agree with everyone who says to transition as quickly as possible out of the LC. They certainly know how to turn you around to their way of thinking in a hurry and it will become harder and harder to extricate yourself from the group and their programming. Soon you will begin to view other Christians not in the LC as they do and it will not be easy to feel comfortable with those other Christians. The LC is a sad place with their exclusiveness, self righteousness and lack of care for anyone who is not in on their vision of oneness. My prayer and hope is that you will find a wonderful place to meet that is filled with His grace and truth. I can speak from experience that your Christian life is far too precious to squander on a group like the LC. I am not saying they are bad people as I am married to a very active member of the LC, but life is challenging enough without all the crazy pressures the LC puts on it's members. They also become isolated from anyone not like them, even to the exclusion of friends and family. I will pray for you to have the strength to withstand the pressures from the LC and that you find some wonderful Christians to meet with in your area.
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Old 02-22-2015, 04:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

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Originally Posted by HERn View Post
Just yesterday my "story" finally became clear to me and that is that the LSM LC is not a healthy place for a christian to live. This is what I'm telling the saints that are dear to me.
Feeling Stuck.... That's what I did primarily when I was in the LC...led Bible studies on campuses while I attended University classes for my undergraduate degree for the purpose of recruitment of Christians for the LC. One of the individuals who I recruited on campus is also a member on this forum (of course no longer with the LC). In any case, I can tell you that they will keep bothering you but I wouldn't worry about it. If they helped you in some small way be thankful for the blessings and move on. The more attention you give them or any kind of ambivalence they sense on your part will cause them to call more and more and make it more difficult on you. If they call, just tell them you are going in a different direction in your Christian life and ask them kindly not to call you any more. You may have to do that several times but if you stand your ground they will move on. I agree with HERn, the LC is not a healthy place...but make sure you find a healthy place for your Christian life.
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Feeling Stuck.... That's what I did primarily when I was in the LC...led Bible studies on campuses while I attended University classes for my undergraduate degree for the purpose of recruitment of Christians for the LC. One of the individuals who I recruited on campus is also a member on this forum (of course no longer with the LC). In any case, I can tell you that they will keep bothering you but I wouldn't worry about it. If they helped you in some small way be thankful for the blessings and move on. The more attention you give them or any kind of ambivalence they sense on your part will cause them to call more and more and make it more difficult on you. If they call, just tell them you are going in a different direction in your Christian life and ask them kindly not to call you any more. You may have to do that several times but if you stand your ground they will move on. I agree with HERn, the LC is not a healthy place...but make sure you find a healthy place for your Christian life.
Hi bro Dave. In the LSM LC I was in there was much analyzing of the saints, politics, maneuvering and window dressing. Everything seemed to be focussed on advancing "the ministry". I'm so much happier being in a place where Jesus is the focus and not some man's ministry. This morning I had a good time with a recently saved retired military brother who struggles being bipolar enjoying the fact that we are connected to God in a very enjoyable way through Christ. We enjoyed that we we need to be "saved" everyday! I hope that's not just LC jargon!
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Old 02-22-2015, 09:46 PM   #21
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Smile Re: Feeling stuck.

Hey guys! Back again!

I am taking steps now to leave the Local Church and the university group. I had the courage to throw out all the materials and books that were related to the teachings of Witness Lee a few days ago, including the Recovery Bible. It was ALOT to throw out, and it basically felt like throwing money in the bin (because I bought many of their books). It took some effort to throw out, especially the Bible, but once it was in the bin and gone from my room, I felt a little better. On the positive side, my room is more clean now. Now I'm basically starting over again, with only an NIV Bible which I used to neglect since getting the Recovery Bible, and now I love it, since it is only God's words written without the copious footnotes of Witness Lee!

This week is orientation week for university and I had already registered to help out the local church group for a few days during the week. The main purpose is to find people who will be useful and shepherd them with Witness Lee's doctrines so they can advance their ministry. Once that is over and done with, I will quickly disassociate with them and leave the group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Feeling Stuck.... That's what I did primarily when I was in the LC...led Bible studies on campuses while I attended University classes for my undergraduate degree for the purpose of recruitment of Christians for the LC. One of the individuals who I recruited on campus is also a member on this forum (of course no longer with the LC). In any case, I can tell you that they will keep bothering you but I wouldn't worry about it. If they helped you in some small way be thankful for the blessings and move on. The more attention you give them or any kind of ambivalence they sense on your part will cause them to call more and more and make it more difficult on you. If they call, just tell them you are going in a different direction in your Christian life and ask them kindly not to call you any more. You may have to do that several times but if you stand your ground they will move on. I agree with HERn, the LC is not a healthy place...but make sure you find a healthy place for your Christian life.
Thanks Dave for the advice! I have tried ignoring them a few times but then they get really worried and they try to contact me through other means, such as Facebook (which is my weakness since I'm on it alot) and I end up responding. Maybe I should de-activate Facebook for the time being.

I will keep you guys posted on what is happening over-time. I pray that everything will run as smoothly as it can without too much problems.
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:29 PM   #22
Dave
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Default Re: Feeling stuck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hey guys! Back again!

I am taking steps now to leave the Local Church and the university group. I had the courage to throw out all the materials and books that were related to the teachings of Witness Lee a few days ago, including the Recovery Bible. It was ALOT to throw out, and it basically felt like throwing money in the bin (because I bought many of their books). It took some effort to throw out, especially the Bible, but once it was in the bin and gone from my room, I felt a little better. On the positive side, my room is more clean now. Now I'm basically starting over again, with only an NIV Bible which I used to neglect since getting the Recovery Bible, and now I love it, since it is only God's words written without the copious footnotes of Witness Lee!

This week is orientation week for university and I had already registered to help out the local church group for a few days during the week. The main purpose is to find people who will be useful and shepherd them with Witness Lee's doctrines so they can advance their ministry. Once that is over and done with, I will quickly disassociate with them and leave the group.

Thanks Dave for the advice! I have tried ignoring them a few times but then they get really worried and they try to contact me through other means, such as Facebook (which is my weakness since I'm on it alot) and I end up responding. Maybe I should de-activate Facebook for the time being.

I will keep you guys posted on what is happening over-time. I pray that everything will run as smoothly as it can without too much problems.
You have the prayers and support of the LCD community in your efforts to extricate yourself from the LC and move on in your Christian life. You're taking the right steps in this endeavor. Keep in contact with your Christian brethren outside of the LC. I'm sure they will provide considerable support. This is just stating the obvious and you seem to be doing well on your own. However, always feel free to post any questions or concerns you might encounter. Take care!
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