My perspective

[YP0534]

I intend to write something more substantial by way of introduction/testimony at some point and have been intending to do so in the proper way but I feel the need now to make at least a statement that might help explain where I'm coming from.

I was "in" the "Local Church" for just 3 and a half years, from Fall of 1985 through Spring of 1989. And that time is actually a little shorter on both ends because although I got saved through them, I did not meet exclusively with them for quite some time, and on the back end, my thinking had already moved past the groupthink by the time I got ejected, which kind of makes sense, I think. Plus, while there, I was never in a meeting (besides a few trainings and conferences) that was more than about a dozen people. They were always small gatherings from day one and there was no back bench.

Moreover, although I've had a Recovery Version of the New Testament virtually from the very start and a full set of the New Testament Green Books from during those days, I was never fully in the program and these Bible tools, while appreciated, were never the same thing to me as they were to so many. (In fact, my Green Books got some roach specks on them during the three years they were in a storage facility! ) So while I understand the wounds of those for whom these things became tools of indoctrination as well as the zeal of those for whom these things remain nearly equal to the word of God itself, by the Lord's mercy, they were never either of those two things to me. I also have never been much of a reader.

I confess that I had already picked up some Local Church germs during those few years and some of the broken human relationships that resulted are still not mended. And I've had to deal with those germs. But some of those ideas, like "clearance of the past" was one I recently considered, some people still hold as a concept in their hearts without questioning it. That one never really caught on for me, even though I did the ritual burning in accordance with approved protocols. But some people are still trying to erase things and forgetfulness is not the eye salve. The whole Bible is mostly a history and the history is still being written.

So, anyways, after a relatively short stay that wasn't very intense and 20 years now on the outside, having been forced out for religious reasons rather than leaving intentionally but with second guessing to contend with, I have a significantly different view from most of the good saints around here.

I continually learn something new in hearing from you about your experiences and exercise to see things from your point of view. So please don't assume that I'm taking a position that is either aligned with or contrary to yours in any of my postings. I've most likely got another take on it altogether and (of course) only mine is the right one.

[finallyprettyokay]

YPO wrote: I did the ritual burning in accordance with approved protocols

Funny because it's true.

And sad because it is true.

Wow, what kind of place were we in? What a nut house.

Why did my husband and I leave the LC? Not because we disagreed with doctrines about the Trinity, or agreed with those doctrines. Not because of any doctrinal issues, really. It was because we got tired of seeing people get hurt. At the very place that should have been safe, people were getting hurt left and right.

And, sadly, the firestorm of the 1978 fleeing caused a lot of pain for a lot of people. My word, the families and friends that were at war. So sad.

And here we are, for many of us it is years later, and we are still needing to talk about it. Powerful.

YPO, glad you are here. Glad we are ALL here.

FPO

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by finallyprettyokay

.......And here we are, for many of us it is years later, and we are still needing to talk about it. Powerful.
YPO, glad you are here. Glad we are ALL here.

FPO

Isn't that truth! Some of us were only there a few years. I was in it 4-5 yrs.

Almost everyone here came from a different locality but with the same experiences!! Incredible!

I think that is part of the reason we are still connected. When Baptists leave the Baptist church, they move on. Very few people have been affected as we have been.

But thankfully we have a GOD who will never forsake us and leave us. We have a GOD GREATER than our trials, tribulations, hardships and problems.

To GOD be the GLORY forever & ever AMENNNNNNNNN!!!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by finallyprettyokay

Why did my husband and I leave the LC? Not because we disagreed with doctrines about the Trinity, or agreed with those doctrines. Not because of any doctrinal issues, really. It was because we got tired of seeing people get hurt. At the very place that should have been safe, people were getting hurt left and right.

There you go, fpo, now were talking. Doctrines and theology didn't bring me to the church in the first place, so they neither could hold me nor chase me off. It was all about people getting hurt, people getting neglected, people getting abused.

I was attracted initially by the love of God, the joy of the Spirit, and the freshness of the Word of God, but it was getting harder and harder to see any of that.

[YP0534]

Even if I could agree with the current administration of the LSM about all the points of doctrine, and I certainly can't at this point because of how far they are now ranging from the pure Word of the Bible and even from the reasonably arguable Word of the Bible, the consequence of the practices are ABSOLUTELY the litmus test. I think the word is "fruit" in the New Testament.

I've used this phrase a couple of times recently and it really describes the situation for me: They ended up throwing the saints themselves under the bus of the Local Church.

The teaching about the universal "Local Church" somehow caused all of us over time to lose our clarity about what God actually wanted in the meetings of the believers and eventually a system grew in place that chewed up and spit out not just our families and our brothers and sisters in the denominations but even the very members with a heart for the Lord and for the group.

To paraphrase a friend of mine, DON'T TELL ME that you love the brothers when they are dropping like flies from your callous neglect and myopic misapprehension of God's purpose and you tell the story of Lot's wife to the survivors in response!

The thing I realized today about the difference between the notion of "universal church" and the Body is that the one tends toward uniformity while the other inherently recognizes the many different life functions. The "universal church" has the same everything everywhere, all blended up into some kind of metaphysical smoothie. But, as similar as they are in form and appearance, and acknowledging the real inward mingling of the life substances, fingers and toes have VASTLY different functions in the body. Not to mention the rather striking visual distinctions between ears and elbows. The multifarious wisdom of God is displayed in the local assembly because it is the rich expression the many members of the Body's functioning.

Seems to me if we were all supposed to end up homogenized God wouldn't have invented fingerprints and DNA. We do share the same life and nature but we don't all need to wear the same necktie.

All the different portions are the glory of the meeting, not its shame. If you go to a pot luck and everybody brings the same 3-bean salad, I think we might all throw up.

At least, I think the Lord would.

Even if you repeated the highest things, how does this shame the enemy? This is what the monkeys do! This is what the babies do!

So, saints, I'd say:

1 Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I reasoned as a child; when I became a man, I had done with what belonged to the child.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by YP0534

If you go to a pot luck and everybody brings the same 3-bean salad, I think we might all throw up.

At least, I think the Lord would.

Well said!!

[YP0534]

I was raised Catholic and my mother, being very religious, intended from my birth that I should be a priest. Excelling in school, religious as a child, I grew up according to her wishes until I got of a certain age that I began to question everything. I transferred out of the “preparatory seminary” I was enrolled in when I saw how fallen that system ultimately was. And I ended up for a couple of years in high school with the typical troubled-teen problems of drug and alcohol use, although I was spared the worst of those kinds of problems.

I was always very philosophical and introspective and throughout high school I was pondering the big life issues. I briefly explored eastern religious thought and all the great philosophy to be found in American rock music and eventually came around to a Beatles-influenced idea of being a Christian: All you need is love and Jesus was the one who said that best. I then undertook what I perceived to be the Christian obligation to propagate this profound realization that everyone just needs to love everybody to make everything work in the world. Consequently, I drove my friends and classmates nuts with my “peace and love” neo-hippy chatter.

My freshman year in college away at the state university, I was still trying to figure out why nobody cared about loving everyone like I did, but I was completely clear that love was all that really mattered in the whole sick mess of this world. One evening, while studying in the library, I wrote a single page of my thoughts of needing to be with the ones I love as much as I could rather than dedicating myself to the study of ancient Greek literature. I walked straight from the library to a meeting where a pair of unusual fellows were just concluding a gospel presentation to a group of my friends. One of my friends told me that he had been looking for me because they all thought I needed to talk to these religious guys. I’m not sure what my friends hoped to accomplish but the gospel meeting was over and I had missed all of it. Nevertheless, these two fellows were kind enough to spend a little bit of extra time to speak to the guy who showed up in such circumstances and I received the Lord that night and was baptized a couple of days later. Now I really had an idea about what being a Christian was all about.

Still, there was the matter of meeting. I and a couple of other friends of mine went about to visit with representatives of every denominational group on campus and we went to meetings of not a few. I may have received the Lord through the efforts of the Local Church, but obviously, that meant I was the Lord’s. I never had the concept that I was supposed to be theirs. Still, they took the time and made the effort to make sure I was getting nourished with the Word. I never found much to speak of in all the different places I visited other than some good singing sometimes. Nothing against them, but it was nothing to attract me. But these particular people kept bringing new ideas to me that were clearly part of the Bible but that were roundly ignored even by the so-called “Bible-believing churches” I had visited. The view was high and deep and the more those little dorm-room Bible meetings happened, the more I wanted them to happen. Eventually, I got a New Testament Recovery Version to replace my Catholic New American Bible that I had (rarely) used since I was a child. Everything was up, up, up. I had discovered a place to meet that had impressed so many before me as the place to meet. All of this happened in my freshman year of college.

In a short time, however, my companions who had been meeting with me in the same way from the same time just stopped meeting with the Local Church. I never understood why, but, not being like Lot’s wife, I wouldn’t look back and I would sing “Pressing On” with a tear in my eye and loneliness in my heart for the loss of my closest friends. I was still “in” so that was what I was supposed to do and it was they who had fallen short in walking with the Lord. Perhaps one day they would return and seek to be reconciled but if not, I surely wouldn’t wait or even seek them out.

Just about this time was the beginning of “The New Way” among us. In fact, we had sort of come in through “The New Way” but it just wasn’t called that yet and we had no awareness of such things as techniques for Gospel preaching and so forth. We gladly joined in with the door knocking and the home meetings and as my friends fell beside the way, I kept right up with it. I wanted to be the best door knocker. I was going to help fulfill Witness Lee’s vision to bring back the Lord in 13 years! We had budgets. We had strategies. We were going to take over the earth for Jesus. We could really do it. We could all see how this was possible. One in four. One in twenty. It was just math.

But even in my remote outpost, there were grumblings that filtered in about people in larger places who could not adapt to “The New Way” because they liked to sit in a proper meeting hall on Sunday and listen to one person speaking the good messages. I felt so sorry for them but I was not afflicted with their oldness. And we were so small that our “big meetings” were only a couple of dozen at most. We were perfectly poised to follow Witness Lee into the Kingdom Age! But something was wrong. Those functioning as elders themselves really hated to knock on doors because they could not stand to lose their face in it. I tried to help them by quoting the publications to show how Witness Lee said not to care for your face and to only wait thirty seconds and then turn to the right. Eventually, these elder ones said that most of these things were spoken for the benefit of other places, not ours. And I was kind of shocked, because, after all, this was coming directly from the presses of Living Stream Ministry. We had seen it on video already.

Well, one other thing Witness Lee had shared was that we did not need to wait for anyone to organize us into door knocking. He said that there was nothing wrong with anyone just going out to preach the gospel. But not in my place, because doing such things was acting independently and not in coordination. I also got in trouble by exercising to speak my portion of enjoyment in the meetings, having used the Life Studies as the groceries and standing on Witness Lee’s shoulders to see further, just as he himself had instructed. I was only supposed to parrot what I had read. Needless to say, eventually, I got the boot for following the teachings of Witness Lee too closely. And the ones who ejected me are still well-revered brothers in the Local Church.

I wandered quite aimlessly for quite a long time but never really left the Lord entirely. I could never deny what I had seen of real revelation and contact with the Lord Spirit but I felt I just could not go on properly without a group. The best group kicked me out. And I was clear about denominations, so I couldn’t go there. I was trapped. I couldn’t see how to go forward and I knew I couldn’t go backward. Eventually, I got clear that the Lord had pushed me out the front door of the Local Church but I never got the word from Him about what was supposed to happen next. I think very many of us can appreciate this awkward position. And the answer is, of course, don’t do anything. Meet with every believer you can in any context that you can and let the Lord worry about the rest of it. Don’t join anything or start anything. You are already in everything that you need to be in. Anything else is a distraction.

Consequently, the main lesson I gained from my brief time among the saints in the Local Church was just how easy it is for religion to distract us from the reality of Christ. Or, as I’m fond of saying these days, how easy it is for a notion about “universal church” to destroy the ability to have the actual assembly. It’s both ironic and sad but even those places that readily picked up the practice of “The New Way” actually practiced it in an old way from the start because there was no other way for them to do it. To put it bluntly, the definition and practice of “The God-ordained Way” could never actually BE the God-ordained way but it could only become another denomination. Just assemble freely and assemble small and let the Lord as the Head worry about the building of His Body.

The unique goal is to have the practical manifestation of God in all of our meetings.

The right kind of meeting is the wrong kind of meeting if God cannot be seen there.

[countmeworthy]

[QUOTE=YP0534;1763]....my mother, being very religious, intended from my birth that I should be a priest. Excelling in school, religious as a child, .........

In a short time, however, my companions who had been meeting with me in the same way from the same time just stopped meeting with the Local Church. I never understood why, but, not being like Lot’s wife, I wouldn’t look back and I would sing “Pressing On” with a tear in my eye and loneliness in my heart for the loss of my closest friends.
........I also got in trouble by exercising to speak my portion of enjoyment in the meetings, having used the Life Studies as the groceries and standing on Witness Lee’s shoulders to see further, just as he himself had instructed. I was only supposed to parrot what I had read. Needless to say, eventually, I got the boot for following the teachings of Witness Lee too closely. And the ones who ejected me are still well-revered brothers in the Local Church.

I wandered quite aimlessly for quite a long time but never really left the Lord entirely. I could never deny what I had seen of real revelation and contact with the Lord Spirit but I felt I just could not go on properly without a group. The best group kicked me out. And I was clear about denominations, so I couldn’t go there. I was trapped. I couldn’t see how to go forward and I knew I couldn’t go backward. Eventually, I got clear that the Lord had pushed me out the front door of the Local Church but I never got the word from Him about what was supposed to happen next. I think very many of us can appreciate this awkward position. And the answer is, of course, don’t do anything. Meet with every believer you can in any context that you can and let the Lord worry about the rest of it. Don’t join anything or start anything. You are already in everything that you need to be in. /QUOTE]

YP0534, Your testimony moved me deeply. I was in the LC for about 4/5 yrs. 4 yrs solid..5th yr..testing the waters outside the LC environment but still holding the LC deep in my heart. Those years were '75-79.

As a little Catholic girl, I wanted to be a PRIEST when I grew up. I pretended to do the mass. I never wanted to be a nun. Awww. I got my heart's desire. I am now a PRIEST unto the Most High God. I too excelled in Religion but was a mediocre student in everything else..with the exception of Spelling. I was a great speller. I loved that subject.

When I got saved through the brethren in the LC, I lost all my best friends. But they were not saved. Still it was heartwrenching for me 'cause they were my friends. Like you, I remained steadfast in the Lord and of course for a few years, in the LC. 30 plus years later, I've been reunited with my best friends and 2 of them are truly saved now! And one of them & I are closer than ever in spirit and in soul!!! I am sooo very BLESSED...and soo very thankful God reunited us. If you haven't been reunited with your friends, I pray God will do this for you and quickly too!
I am sorry you went through what you went through. Surely there is something OFF in the LC...a weird, religious, warped spirit infilitrated the LC in the late 70's, manifesting itself during the 80's if you ask me. What you wrote about following the teachings of WL only to get ejected confirms what I suspect.

Most of us, if not all of us, can relate to wandering aimlessly after our time in the LC. I will speak for myself. I felt I had gotten the best in my years in the LC. The Lord led me in and the LORD Himself led me out. Like you I didn't know what to do or where to go. On top of everything else, I had unresolved, unrepentant sin hovering over me which I couldn't shake.

Took many, many years..something like THIRTY years for me to FINALLY GET IT!! Thank GOD for His Patience and MERCY on me!!! WHEW!!! Thank YOU Lord Jesus.

Well. 4 1/2 yrs ago..was when I finally got it and gave myself unreservedly, unconditionaly, without any hesitation back to the LORD..free AT LAST...FREE AT LAST!!!

However, I felt I needed to get into 'a church' of strong believers to help me get past my LC concepts. The Lord led me to a Word of Faith church. I was a 'member' there for 2 1/2 yrs. I 'joined' 'cause I had never 'joined' a church..and wanted to experience it.

I attended 'membership classes', 'Discovery classes', and 'leadership' classes. It was in these classes that I met and became friends in Christ with many of these people.

Most of us who met in the those classes have left that church now. I am still friends with some of them. We remain strong in the LORD..in the Word of God...but no longer attend 'church' on a regular basis. We talk or e-mail regularly..hang out with each other but also have our different circle of friends too. We are not 'cliqued'.

God is GREAT and God is an AWESOME GOD. He REIGNS! He is the KING of kings. He is the KING and we are the kings.

Thanks for sharing your testimony! Be exceedingly Blessed today..this day..the day the LORD has MADE!

[aron]

Originally Posted by YP0534

I was raised Catholic and my mother, being very religious, intended from my birth that I should be a priest.

Well, she got her wish eventually!

Originally Posted by YP0534

All you need is love and Jesus was the one who said that best. I then undertook what I perceived to be the Christian obligation to propagate this profound realization that everyone just needs to love everybody to make everything work in the world. Consequently, I drove my friends and classmates nuts with my “peace and love” neo-hippy chatter.

I am still like this, in a way. My doctrines keep getting knocked around every time I get into a conversation, or look at another verse. I'm not a master like Lee at fitting the "jigsaw puzzle" into place. But I hold onto the notion of loving God, and loving one another. It's the "simple instruction" that I seem to always be able to remember. Even when I don't "feel very loving", I can always remember to respect others out of deference to the God who put them here.

Thanks for your sharing. I enjoyed it, as I usually do.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

What you wrote about following the teachings of WL only to get ejected confirms what I suspect.

In some ways, mine is a considerably different story from a lot of those out there and I really felt I had to wait until I knew better how to tell it well. I had intended to post it at the other site since joining there in May. I doubt it was worth the wait. I don't think it's even very interesting, frankly, but it is my story regardless. I could add at least few more details to try to make it more interesting but like I said, this is the short version, and at present I just felt I had to leave out some of those details for various reasons...

[Guest1]

really enjoyed your testimony YP ..i was raised catholic also... actually one thing i am thankful about is we did learn the 10 commandments day in and day out... thats a good thing for kids..

God's Blessings
Kat

[countmeworthy]

really enjoyed your testimony YP ..i was raised catholic also... actually one thing i am thankful about is we did learn the 10 commandments day in and day out... thats a good thing for kids..
God's Blessings

yes...AND we learned..at least in my school...there are THREE persons in ONE God...The Father, the Son-JESUS, and the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost.

I hate getting into the discussions of the Trinity because it gets too convoluted to me.

But I personally know the roles of the persons of the Godhead...and I have a a deep personal relationship and appreciation for the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I converse with God through the Holy Spirit. I converse with God through our REDEEMER, Savior, LORD and King- Jesus. I converse with the Father, the Creator of Heaven and earth who all things are by Him, of whom are all things, and we in Him.

We have an AWESOME GOD. He REIGNS!!!

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I hate getting into the discussions of the Trinity because it gets too convoluted to me.

Look to me like you must actually enjoy that rather than hate it!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by YP0534

Look to me like you must actually enjoy that rather than hate it!

Well....perhaps I'll start a thread if ONLY to show how my relationship with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit has evolved.

It won't be to engage into a discussion......per sae. We'll see.

Btw. A couple of nights ago, my best friend & I were on the phone. She was telling me her niece was asking her about God & why there is Jesus & the Holy Spirit too. The girl was having her 12th birthday yesterday.

So the Holy Spirit truly prompted me to write her a 'book'..explaining who God is...what the role of the Father is..the Son..and the Holy Spirit. I wrote a child version explanation of the fall of man....nothing very deep but nonetheless..truthful. I explained the consequence of Adam & Eve disobeying God, their Father. I explained how we inherited sin & why there is soo much evil in the world. I wrote about God's Plan of Action to get us back in a Loving Relationship with Him. I explained the death & resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ...and how the Holy Spirit is the Voice of God & our Comforter.

Before giving it to the little girl, I had my friend read it & she strongly urged me to give it to her niece right away. So I gave the little girl my 'book' & she read it last night.

So maybe I'll post the 'story' I wrote....guided by the Holy Spirit.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

So the Holy Spirit truly prompted me to write her a 'book'..explaining who God is...what the role of the Father is..the Son..and the Holy Spirit.

I do not think it could truthfully be said that you hate this discssion!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by YP0534

I do not think it could truthfully be said that you hate this discssion!

If it turns into a theological, hermaceutical, philosphical, disertation...I do!!

[YP0534]

One day, while happily and even somewhat zealously following the ministry of Witness Lee, a man who was called an elder shouted in my face that I should shut my mouth, not speak to any of the saints any more, and that the saints would be instructed not to speak to me.

That was the end for me, of course.

Many years passed that I wished that even one of them in that place would reach out to me as a brother in the Lord, even if I didn't really want to be part of Laodicea.

But I always respected the instruction of that elder.

I never spoke to them again.

When years later I sought out and attempted to make peace with this elder, he denied recollection of the event entirely, he apologized vaguely before those watching him expectantly that if I were upset then it must have transpired, and he never attempted to speak to me again.

All the gathered saints there that day sang a joyous hymn about brethren dwelling together in unity but none of them ever attempted to contact me again. I had to surmise I hadn't passed the test, whatever it was, and that consequently the instruction not to contact me had not been officially lifted. (Although the elder had also denied that day that such an edict had ever been issued.)

Their expectation was clearly that I needed to be involved in whatever they were doing, so, I guess it doesn't really matter anyway.

But I am not blind to the nature and extent of the religious practices and potential for harm of this little denomination that declares that it has need of nothing.

The Lord's eye salve has been costly to me indeed.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by YP0534

.....an elder shouted in my face that I should shut my mouth, not speak to any of the saints any more, and that the saints would be instructed not to speak to me.

That was the end for me, of course.

Many years passed that I wished that even one of them in that place would reach out to me as a brother in the Lord, even if I didn't really want to be part of Laodicea.

But I always respected the instruction of that elder.

I never spoke to them again.

When years later I sought out and attempted to make peace with this elder, he denied recollection of the event entirely, he apologized vaguely before those watching him expectantly that if I were upset then it must have transpired, and he never attempted to speak to me again.

All the gathered saints there that day sang a joyous hymn about brethren dwelling together in unity but none of them ever attempted to contact me again. I had to surmise I hadn't passed the test, whatever it was, and that consequently the instruction not to contact me had not been officially lifted. (Although the elder had also denied that day that such an edict had ever been issued.)


The Lord's eye salve has been costly to me indeed.

YP0534

Did you leave the LC after that incident? What a horrible, humilating experience that must have been for you! How sad.

Those people have absolutely no cooth how to address people ! Clearly there was no anointing on that 'elder'.

What made you go back to that elder?

How long were you in the LC?

As for the song......brothers dwelling in unity...yeah..right. Unity with the elder nothing more. I pray the Lord will if He hasn't already, shined His light on that 'elder' to repent and ask, truly ask God's forgiveness and YOURS!

I pray the Lord has healed all your wounds.

God is Good..He is JUST also. Vengence is the LORD's.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

YP0534
Did you leave the LC after that incident?

Yes.

How could I participate in meetings of mutuality if my speaking was not allowed?

What made you go back to that elder?

I just wanted the peace to go on with the Lord.
I didn't want there to be any issue between me and them as I went forward.

I had felt a lot of ways between my last day among them and that day but I was finally able to go back in forgiveness and in truth to tell what had happened to me

You know how the speculative stories get told about why people stop meeting with them.

Only to end up with something else to forgive!

How long were you in the LC?

Only a few years.

Although I got saved through their preaching, I met with all kinds of Christians everywhere for awhile, so, I'd say, maybe from from Spring of 1986 through Spring of 1989.

I pray the Lord has healed all your wounds.

God is Good..He is JUST also. Vengence is the LORD's.

I believe so.

Thank you.


I do still dearly love all those saints I knew there, even that particular knucklehead, and I await the day the Lord will make all such things right.

But the Lord brought me in and the Lord brought me out and I can sing
"No, No, No, No, No, I’ll never go back anymore!"

Hallelujah!

[finallyprettyokay]

Well, the past couple of days on the forum have been interesting, to say the least. Got me thinking about what the heck am I doing here? Maybe I'm not the only one here who has ever asked themselves that question .

When I was younger, it seems like I was a little like a puppy -- if someone was the slightest bit nice to me, I was just so grateful. I am much more secure with myself these days --- a gift from God. I am so lucky that I have really quite a few friends who just really love me. And I love them. And we keep our relationships pretty stress free. That unconditional love that is so precious.

So, I stumbled into these two forums just playing around on line one night while my husband watched baseball (Go Rockies! That's for my husband. I don't care very much. True confession). And I just sort of hung out, mostly curious. Or so I thought.

One day I decided to post, and I thought 'well, I am doing so well. I am really pretty much healed from all that long, long ago LC stuff'. Thus, the moniker finallyprettyokay.

Posted a few times. Read a little more. Pretty soon --- oh my gosh. What was this? Feelings surfacing. All these years later. (We left in 1978).

I have never been part of any sort of internet group of people before. I am now, I guess. Here it is --- I still don't really know what I am doing here, how I am doing this --- if I am doing it right or well, or what the heck I am doing. Most of the time I feel so outclassed and not nearly smart enough. And I actually am pretty smart. You may just have to take my word for it. :rollingeyes2:

And. Here's the real thing I want to share. I know some of you now. I don't mean in any sort of ID way, or we used to be in the same city or anything like that. I mean, from your writing. From my reading.

(Countmeworthy and I did pass in the night, so to speak -- by a year or so. San Diego).

So. there are people here I really like. A bunch of people. I've had some PM time with some of you. And those people are definitely people I like. But, believe me, there are others that have not been PMers with me (yet). And it still amazes me so much. I am so surprized to have cyber people I care about. (I think I'm a little slow --- lots of people discovered this cyber connecting a long time ago. Hey, I'm 56 years old. I'm learning!)

And when my cyber friends have disagreements, I just don't know what to do. There you have it. What am I trying to say? Uhhh ---

Oh, I don't know. Thanks to all of you. You all help me a lot. The LC was an experience that had profound, long reaching effects, for better or for worse. We'll keep trying to make more sense of it here. Thanks.


finallyprettyokay

but not as okay as I thought -----

[blessD]

Hi FPO

I read your post on the Factor thread and came here to read what you wrote. Yes, the Factor thread gets very theoretical and full of debate. I really don't get too much out of such banter. Some of it is interesting to me, but some of it reminds me of hours, days, and years spent listening to people who liked to hear themselves talk ;-).

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by finallyprettyokay

Well, the past couple of days on the forum have been interesting, to say the least. Got me thinking about what the heck am I doing here? Maybe I'm not the only one here who has ever asked themselves that question .

No, you are definitely not the only one who has ever asked themselves that question.

I've been seriously asking myself this question daily for the past week or so.

• First, I just post too much. Everybody knows this. I clearly have a problem.
• Second, there's a lot that goes on around there that I have real problems with.
• Third, the cost-to-benefit ratio seems pretty low both directions, i.e., I don't get much enjoyment or light coming my way and I have no confidence that I provide any enjoyment or light to anyone else, both despite a significant time investment on my part.
• Fourth, the signal-to-noise ratio has become quite frustrating over this period, expecially a lot of circular meta-analysis about talking about talking about things.
• Fifth, I've been part of these kinds of virtual communities before and I'm aware of the fabric of such things and the sorts of issues that always accompany them.
• Sixth, my wife.

I made a decision twice before to depart here already. The first time it was the Lord that clearly kept me here a little bit longer. I fellowshipped this point with a few people and I'm glad I remained. This second time, however, I'm not sure I didn't miss Him when He left the room. I thought maybe I was merely bored but it's hard to see Him here at the moment, for sure. And now it seems I may have succeeded in offending multiple people by expressing my own opinion.

Now that I've laid out a little of my past and a couple of points I feel the Lord has spoken to me about, I may have truly contributed and gained all that I can in this place.

I certainly don't wish to continue offending others with errant postings but even if I am able to exercise not to do so, I see others who have no sensitivity to that issue whatsoever and just my being here becomes a problem both to them and to me.

Plus, although I still do not know what comes next in the experience of the assembly, I'm pretty clear now that I wouldn't see in laid out in ASCII.

I appreciate your fellowship, FPO. Thank you for sharing that.

No. You are not the only one who has wondered this way...

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by YP0534

No, you are definitely not the only one who has ever asked themselves that question.
[LIST][*]First, I just post too much. Everybody knows this. I clearly have a problem.
.[*]Third, the cost-to-benefit ratio seems pretty low both directions, i.e., I don't get much enjoyment or light coming my way and I have no confidence that I provide any enjoyment or light to anyone else, both despite a significant time investment on my part.

I appreciate your fellowship, FPO. Thank you for sharing that.

No. You are not the only one who has wondered this way...

YP0534 & FPO,

I think many of us.....especially the regulars, ask themselves the same ole' question.....WHY are we here?

We all have lives outside this forum. We have left the LC behind us...those of us who have left. And I agree that the cost to benefit ration is pretty low most of the time....for ME that is. Then again I don't know. My goal here as it is outside this forum is to encourage, uplift the saints and the downtrodden...to give them hope and point them to our Precious LORD & KING JESUS. Truly HE is the Savior and the DELIVERER. He is the One who sets the captives, the prisoners free.

(See~ I'm already going about doing what I say I do! )

Once in a while, someone thanks me or tells me I've encouraged them...so IF, I can at least help ONE person who has been downtrodden by life's problems or by the hauntings of the Ghost of the LSM/LC, and given them HOPE again in Christ Jesus, then I guess that is why the LORD won't release me from this forum.

Once in a while, I check up on the other forum but by & large, I think I'm pretty much done with that one.

YP0534, I think most of us feel there is not much enjoyment or light coming our way!!! You're NOT alone but you know I read your posts!

I hope people read mine. I'm sure everyone hopes their posts are read too!

And to be honest....I'm 'guilty' of NOT reading everyone's posts!

I was not a part of the 80's & 90's..or anything current pertaining the LC/LSM.

The LC lingo has always been a turn off for me and it is WORST now than it's ever been! & Just as the world turns, the LSM/LC terminology makes my stomach turn

(Had to throw in a knuck-knuck!)

So It IS hard for me to read about what happened in the 80's. I don't care one I-OH-TA for Lee's teachings on this or that...his perspectives on this or that.

Compared to many, my time in the LC was short-lived, from 1975-'78-'79. Like you YP0534, The Lord led me in and the LORD led me out! YAHOO!

But like everyone else, the LC had an affect me...in some ways GOOD...and other ways...well...<sigh>

I try to focus on the GOOD...I got the WORD of God into me. Much of it is inscribed into my being. I learned how to do this there and adhere to the principles taught to me in the LC. I learned how to fellowship with people. I learned how to share the gospel and not be ashamed or embarrassed to do so.

Today, I will talk to people about the LORD just as if I was talking to them about football, basketball, FOOD or a neat movie. I don't 'care' if they don't KNOW our LORD JESUS. When I speak them about HIM, the Holy Spirit leads me to speak to them in a way they feel comfortable hearing about HIM.

The LORD led a guy the other day to me to change a flat tire on my car. He asked me & my friend where we were going..I told him to a 'church service.' He rolled his eyes..and told me emphatically-HE was NOT a CHRISTIAN and that CHRISTIANS were the worst.

I told him I understood how he felt and that Judgment was going to come FIRST to the house of GOD. He mumbled something else..and then I asked him if he believed in Jesus. He told me "OF COURSE I DO!!!!" LOL!!

I found out he's a handyman by trade so I wanted to get his phone # to give me some estimates on some work I need on my house. When I said I wanted to ask him something, he snapped and said 'DON'T INVITE ME TO CHURCH!' I snapped back at him and said "I WASN"T going to INVITE you to CHURCH! I was going to ask YOU if you could give me some ESTIMATES to do some work around my house!' :-)))

When he finished changing my tire, I gave him some 'wet ones' to clean his hands with and a $$ thank you gift $$. He didn't want to take it and finally said, OK, I'll take it but I'm going to give it to someone who needs it.

So a couple of days later, he called me to make an appointment to come over. We're shooting the breeze and I ask him if he lives alone or has a roomate. He fumbled and stumbled to answer my question. I then apologized for being NOSY. He said I wasn't being nosy just curious...then reluctantly 'fessed up and told me he was living with his fiancee.

So I said...OH!! Soooo, you're living in SIN are you? Que Bonito! (That's spanish for a sarcastic 'Well, that's really good of you.'

I told him to go to the justice of the peace and sign that piece of paper to make it legal.

Anyway... I brought up that little story 'cause, I never know how God is going to use me. :-)))) You know, I doubt the guy is going to do what I suggested he do but he wasn't mad at me for saying what I said to him! And he enjoyed talking to me...and will be coming this week to see what work he might be able to do for me. :-)))


Btw, the Holy Spirit also prompts me when not to say anything...and I think I've learned to become a good listener to the VOICE of GOD. :-)

So...I'm rambling off.

It's early in the morning..forgive me for it. I haven't spent much time in the Presence of the LORD yet. I think I'll go do that..soon as I finish glancing through this forum and checking my emails. I see the world is still in tact. Nothing out of the ordinary happened last night or this morning yet.

THANK YOU LORD JESUS for another day to HONOR and SERVE the KING of kings with All my heart, soul and spirit.

LORD FATHER GOD, Bless EVERYONE on this forum with JOY unspeakable and the PEACE of GOD surpassing their understanding. Comfort those who need comforting, Holy Spirit for that is what You do best. That is why YOUR Name is the Comforter and Counselor!

Open the Windows of HEAVEN Blessed Jesus and let the gifts from GOD shower your precious people this day!

Later everyone...thanks for reading!

Carol

[finallyprettyokay]

CMW wrote to YPO:You're NOT alone but you know I read your posts!

I hope people read mine. I'm sure everyone hopes their posts are read too!

And to be honest....I'm 'guilty' of NOT reading everyone's posts!

Well, I solved the problem this time by shamelessly promoting my post on another thead. Oh, I knew I should have been making the big bucks all this time on Madison Avenue!!!

Go with God, all y'all.

fpo

[YP0534]

it's been a long time but I'm still ok with what I wrote here

I have continued to grow over these years and my sympathy for those saints continues to grow. But I understand something further now about our spiritual destiny in the New Jerusalem and I am still less harsh on those ones in those days. I cannot say anything about the present condition of the Local Church believer. Lee himself clearly indicated more than once that he believed this was the degraded recovered church.

I think I might just start calling it The New Way Church, because that's clearly when the biggest division happened in the US. But the truth is that the New Way Church is largely characterized by its old way influences. Influences that lead to divisions.

There IS a unique way and it is always new: JUST CHRIST

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by YP0534

it's been a long time but I'm still ok with what I wrote here

There IS a unique way and it is always new: JUST CHRIST

Great to hear from you again!

You wear your moniker like an Auschwitz survivor's tattoo.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great to hear from you again!

You wear your moniker like an Auschwitz survivor's tattoo.

You recall that was my number?
LOL

THEY GAVE ME A NUMBER FOR LIFE

My interest is in getting that name that no one else knows on a white stone.

It's not a number, though.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by YP0534

You recall that was my number?
LOL

THEY GAVE ME A NUMBER FOR LIFE

My interest is in getting that name that no one else knows on a white stone.

It's not a number, though.

Haha, too funny. Reminds me of this old TV show I watched as a kid called "Get Smart." It was a spoof on the secret agent genre of the day.

The theme song went something like this:

He's a secret agent man, secret agent man!
They're givin' you a number, and takin' away your name.

You'd think after 50-60 years I would have forgotten this stuff? lol

I still got my LSM badge souvenir too! I'm Agent 034B.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Haha, too funny. Reminds me of this old TV show I watched as a kid called "Get Smart." It was a spoof on the secret agent genre of the day.

The theme song went something like this:

He's a secret agent man, secret agent man!
They're givin' you a number, and takin' away your name.

You'd think after 50-60 years I would have forgotten this stuff? lol

I still got my LSM badge souvenir too! I'm Agent 034B.

Actually, that song went to the somewhat serious TV spy series called "Secret Agent (Man?)" with the song sung by Johnny Rivers. "Get Smart" was a Mel Brooks spoof with no words to the theme song.

And like you, I remember way too much of this old stuff.

[YP0534]

I'm just going to put it out there:

Does anyone have any notes or anything from the message Lee gave at the "high school training graduation" in July 1987?

Anyone know anyone who was there?

Shot in the dark.

I was required to leave early.

Might have been printed in a "heart of the high schooler" newsletter or something?