A lost soul

I grew up in a sad family. I was saved through the gospel of a college classmate, moved into a brother's house, and attended the FTTT. In early 2000, I decided to leave it all behind. It was a very very difficult emotion battle, accompany with fear, shame, and regret. Your posts have encouraged me in many ways. I am alone with no friends to turn to, not knowing where I am heading. I started to read the four gospels and hope that the Lord will help me. Thank you again.

[UntoHim]

Thanks for having the courage to put yourself out here and post. I know it can't be easy.

It is a VERY, VERY important thing you are doing in reading the 4 gospels. They contain the direct teachings, parables and works of the Lord Jesus Himself. This will be a great healing and encouragement, and I can assure you that you will eventually find yourself much less "lost".

In the meantime, we are all here for you my friend. Though many of us are older, there are a number of younger ones around here who can relate to your situation and I hope they will come on the forum with some words of encouragement and hope.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I grew up in a sad family. I was saved through the gospel of a college classmate, moved into a brother's house, and attended the FTTT. In early 2000, I decided to leave it all behind. It was a very very difficult emotion battle, accompany with fear, shame, and regret. Your posts have encouraged me in many ways. I am alone with no friends to turn to, not knowing where I am heading. I started to read the four gospels and hope that the Lord will help me. Thank you again.

Welcome to the forum!

Lots of us grew up in sad families too, and that's one of the reasons that we got saved. So that's something we should always thank our heavenly Father for. Our background may have been too dark for our liking, but knowing Jesus can brighten any soul. Thank God He sent His Only Begotten Son Jesus to this sad and sinful earth. See Luke 4.18-19

The dear folks in the LC's do display the love of God to their friends, but unfortunately they have been convinced that LSM and the FTTT are the best way to show that love. Their insistence on LSM is a key reason why many of us have left too.

May the Lord bless you and keep you!

[HERn]

Dear brother, I'm on my way out and would like to assure you that your salvation is real, the love you felt for The Lord is real, and the fact that you're seeking Him shows that you are being real. I say " to h---" with the fear, shame, and regret...because that's where it came from! Try and read the gospels without anybody's footnotes (LSM, baptist, etc.) and learn of Him. Before long you will be amazed with this wonderful Person and begin to feel love for Him again! There are thousands of dear lovers of The Lord out there in probably every group, not just the LSM local churches.

Beloved "Lost Soul":

You are NOT alone! You have the Lord, and you have US! I know that the other believers here will join with me in praying for you daily! May the Lord strengthen and encourage you! May He send you other believers to shepherd and care for you soon! Please go to a Christian fellowship and begin receiving encouragement! Father, look down upon "Lost Soul" and his situation! Guide him quickly to green pastures and restore his soul! Shower him with Your Sweetness! Be encouraged, "Lost Soul", He is WITH you and we, too, are WITH you in spirit and prayer!

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I started to read the four gospels and hope that the Lord will help me.

Let me put it simply: if you read the four gospels, and the Lord does NOT help you, then that is HIS problem, not yours.

If you make an effort to come to God, and God doesn't reciprocate, then the lack lies with God and not you. And from what I've seen, God doesn't lack.

So read on, and be encouraged. The Lord is near you. "Your labor is not in vain, in the Lord."

Lastly, I would encourage anyone who is starting out to read the four gospels. Read them until you know them better than you know anything else. Then you will be preserved, from going astray, when you venture into other books of the Bible.

One of the main problems of the Witness Lee group is that they are so fixated on the letter (theology) of Paul that they forget about the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Believe me, that Spirit is quite evident in the four gospels! Jesus didn't go around expositing theology. Jesus went around doing good works, full of compassion toward those who otherwise had no hope. See Peter's testimony to the Gentile Cornelius in Acts 10. Especially verse 38. If anyone was qualified to characterize Jesus' ministry in those words it was Peter, and therefore I take it quite seriously.

And all the details, all the good works of God's mercy, love, tender compassion, are there in the four gospels. All the evidence is there in those four books, that the gospel of Jesus is for real. If you hold those testimonies close, you will never go astray.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by aron

One of the main problems of the Witness Lee group is that they are so fixated on the letter (theology) of Paul that they forget about the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Hey Aron and all,
Yes....... I left right about the time all I was hearing from the 'elders' via WL was 'PAUL' THIS and PAUL THAT... And LEE was today's PAUL !

I got sooo sick in my spirit and stomach...... I came close to hating that name ! and came close to never reading another letter by Paul in the NT !!!!

Sooooooooo glad I left........

So happy to know God's MERCY AND LOVE IS REAL OUTSIDE THE LSM camp.
God's WORD is ALIVE...

I was just telling a friend a minute ago that for the last week or so, the Holy Spirit has been whispering the Word 'Power' to me. So I picked up 2 Timothy and there it is: God did not give us a spirit of fear but of POWER...of Love and of a sound mind. I'm reading 1 Pete and there is the word POWER again...

This morning I got a call from a friend... Holy Spirit had a word for him to give me...and it was MERCY. He told me HS put it on his heart to call me since Sunday and to tell me to have MERCY. He did not know that I had been fuming and wanted to pulverize my brother who was blaming God for all the autrocities of the world...calling HIM a serial murderer....

boy OH BOY.... DID I WANT TO TROUNCE HIM...shred him into mincemeat...
But I held back... because HS reminded me of Peter sticking up for Jesus... and I didn't want to eat crow !!!!

And so I'm reading 1 and 2 Pete ....and there are the words: POWER AND MERCY !

I JUST Love HOLY SPIRIT...as much as King Jesus and Daddy Abba God...El Shaddai.

Love you all too !
Carol

Thank you all for your prayers and kind words. I cherish them very much. Our Lord uses parables regarding the kingdom of God. Can anyone please help me enter it? Also, the Lord asked us to pray for receiving the Holy Spirit. What is it like when you have received the Holy Spirit? And how do we receive it?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Our Lord uses parables regarding the kingdom of God. Can anyone please help me enter it?

I was looking at an interesting Bible verse the other day. Paul was writing to the Corinthians and in chapter 13 he was discussing love. And he said we only know love a small bit. The whole love of God, how deep and strong and pure it is, we only have a faint taste. But even in its faintness, we know that it's real. In some sense, it's the only thing that's real.

And then Paul used these words: "We see in a glass, darkly"(v.12)... we look in a mirror, and in ourselves we see a tiny bit of "Christ in us" in faint reflection. We were originally made in God's image, and in our acting out the great and surpassing love of God, toward each other, we may faintly reflect that divine love which sought us, and purchased us back from sin.

If you are the same person who started this thread, and went through the FTTT (Taipei?) then you must already have familiarity with the Bible. Paul uses the Greek root word "enigmatically" for "darkly" or "faintly" in 1 Corinthians 13:12. That means, to me, "like a parable". An enigma is a puzzle, a parable. It is the faint tracing of something much more real, and solid, which you the reader or hearer now have to piece together. It is like a few pencil marks on a piece of paper, which indicate the location of a buried treasure.

Well, the Bible is that "treasure map", and the gospel parables are puzzles, or enigmatic pictures, indicating the way home to the Father. So I'll 'decode' the parables for you in two ways, which I believe complement each other.

1. "God loved the world so much that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes into Him shall not perish, but shall instead have eternal life." (Jo 3:16) The gospels tell us that God loves us. We once forgot the way home to our Father in heaven. A great darkness separated us from God, and instead death now claimed us as its own. Once death takes you, you are gone forever. We were lost, and without hope. So God, because of His great love for us, while we were there in darkness, sent his beloved Son to die for our sins (Rom 5:8). Now when we believe into the name of Jesus we begin to have the way home. The divine light begins to shine. Jesus came into death itself, and presented us with our Father's love, and opened the door to go home.

Never let anything distract you from the fact that your Father God in heaven loves you. Never let sin distract you. Just repent. Come back to the Father. Never let teachings distract you. Just be simple. "My Father God loves me. I want to go home. This is not my home..." focus on the Father's love, and never turn away, not for anything, and the Father's love will cause you to behold his beloved Son, Jesus. Jesus will show you the way home. Jesus said, "Where I am going, you know the way." (Jo 14:4). The parables point you to the the Father's holy righteousness and His saving love, and this in turn points you to the beloved Son, who in turn leads us home. "My sheep hear my voice." You will hear the Son, and return home.

2.The main focus of Jesus' parables, I believe, lies in this simple fact: that how you treat others is how God will treat you. God loves you, but if you hurt others, mistreat others, gossip about others, don't share with others, curse others, and judge others, what happens to God's love? You cut it off. God is righteous, and loves you, so His mercy opened a door for you to come home in the faith of His Son Jesus Christ, who is Lord and Savior of all. But if you begin to mistreat your neighbors you effectively deny that love. By hating your neighbor you spurn God's love, and God's righteousness once again steps in and shuts the door. Don't think that because of God's love, He will indulge you your sin! Don't think that His righteousness is now forgotten! Your every act is placed in a balance, in which you yourself are weighed. And your neighbor is an invitation by God for you to act. You may complain that your neighbor is not a nice person, but is rather a sinner. Still, that is an invitation for you to act. Bless them, and do not curse.

So every time you get a chance to be nice to someone, take it as a divine appointment, sent from the heavens. Love those who don't love you back. Forgive those who mistreat you. Give to those who ask, and don't ask for a return. Then your reward in heaven will be great. Don't think that God is not watching you. Believe me, God watches you; every hair on your head is numbered. Everything is recorded, in fine detail: Revelation 20:12 (ref Dan 7:10) says "books were opened"; don't think that all your deeds are not also recorded therein!

Also, the Lord asked us to pray for receiving the Holy Spirit. What is it like when you have received the Holy Spirit?

This is a hard question, for me. Because if I say, "I have laid hold" then I am of all people most deceived. What I would instead say is, Look at the Bible. It will show you the answer. The Bible is not dead letters, but the gateway to the living Spirit.

I will just give you one example: when Jesus resurrected, the disciples asked Him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" They wanted a kingdom on the earth "even as it is in heaven" (as they imagined heaven to be). They wanted to see the Son of David on a throne, and of course they would get a piece of the action. They all (so they hoped) would each get "ten cities" or "five cities" as a reward for their faithful obedience to, and support of, the Messiah, Jesus.

But Jesus didn't answer the way they expected. He said, "Go, and wait for the promise of the Father."

Interestingly, though, Jesus didn't refute their question. He just said that only the Father knows the timing. But here is what they could expect: "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

"You will receive power"... ten days later, when the earth began to shake, and a 'violent' noise came out of heaven like the rushing wind, and tongues of fire began to appear, this arguably was indeed "the restoration of the kingdom to Israel." Or at least a requisite foretaste. And you and I get to participate, by receiving this same Holy Spirit.

All I can say is, when the Holy Spirit comes, you will know it. Just like at Pentecost in the upper room; you will know it. Believe me, when God comes, you know it. So wait, and pray for the coming of the Holy Spirit. You won't be disappointed. Jesus said, "Seek, and ye shall find; ask, and it shall be given to you." Could any invitation be more clear?

And how do we receive it?

The hard part is finding fellowship. There's a lot of weird stuff going on out there. If you try to go and confess the name of Jesus among the brethren of faith, you may find a nurturing and supporting environment, but you may also be dragged into a ditch. So beware. There is a lot of strange stuff going on out there.

In the church of Lee, for example, you probably heard about the "storms" and "rebellions" and "turmoils", all of which probably occurred because the people there, starting with those at the top, forgot about God's love, and confessing the name of Jesus. Instead they got tangled up in teachings and organizational philosophies.

So if you can find a place where the simple confession of the name of Jesus Christ has not been forgotten, and the love of the Father God toward us all (and not just the "good building material") is displayed, then if you go there and confess the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to the brothers and sisters assembled, I daresay that "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you". In fact your confession will be a demonstration of that same power. As Peter wrote, referencing the psalmist's declaration, "Just taste and see". God is good.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

The whole love of God, how deep and strong and pure it is, we only have a faint taste. But even in its faintness, we know that it's real. In some sense, it's the only thing that's real.

And then Paul used these words: "We see in a glass, darkly"(v.12)... we look in a mirror, and in ourselves we see a tiny bit of "Christ in us" in faint reflection. We were originally made in God's image, and in our acting out the great and surpassing love of God, toward each other, we may faintly reflect that divine love which sought us, and purchased us back from sin.

Great post bro aron.

And in a sense, when we act loving we make the kingdom of God real on the earth. And vis-à-vis, when we act hateful, we make the kingdom of Satan real.

[Cal]

The common symptom I see with people who never seem to shake oppressive memories of the LC--and that includes these people you see floating around the fringes of it for years, going back, trying to fix it and forever worrying about it--is this:

They never developed their own personal relationship with God.

I'm not talking about feeling or "enjoying" God or having some general appreciation of him. I'm talking about those who pray, read the word, are hungry and thirsty for righteousness, who ask, seek and knock, and do not let God go until they know they have encountered him and gotten a direct speaking from him. And they do this over and over and over again.

The LC, for all its claims of being so full of reality, steeped us in a pseudo, group-based, feelings-based spirituality that, when push came to shove, could not carry its own weight. Take away the support mechanism of peer approval, familiar culture and good feelings, and we fell apart.

Why? Because we had no real relationship with God. Our Christian experience was based on feelings, assenting to the correct doctrines, and being approved by others. Sure, we had some shallow "enjoyment." But few of us ever dealt with God to the point where (1) we really got to know him and (2) he really changed us. Very few.

The result was we remained "infants, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine." And that includes these guys who think they have to fix or get back in the LC. Sorry but that's my assessment, and my experience.

The fact is if you are still wrangling and struggling with the LC it just shows you haven't grown enough. It's that simple. You don't know the living God and His living Word enough. You don't know the Son of Righteousness with healing in his wings enough. He expects you to get to know him, not be spoon-fed by someone else for the rest of your life. You need to get serious, hunker down, pray, read the word, find a way to serve, set your sights on the present and future, and dig your salvation out of the ground. It's not going to just fall on you while you are brooding.

God doesn't respond to desperation, pleading, begging or histrionics. He responds to one thing: FAITH. That's the currency of his kingdom. And you'd darn well better get yourself some or you are going to waste your whole life worrying about something he didn't give a hoot about, just because you never really got to know him and what he really cared for.

(Note: This is a general exhortation. Not intended to be directly for "lost soul.")

[Cal]

Essentially the grip the LC had on us was this: They taught us to appreciate God, but did not teach us how to get God ourselves. We were trained to get him through the movement. Remove the movement and we couldn't get God, or so we were conditioned.

People who still struggle with memories of the LC do so because they still, to some extent, have not learned how to get God on their own. Why? Because they've never really gotten serious enough about doing so. Now, they may have worried, or fretted, or cried about it. But God doesn't respond to that. He responds to FAITH. And if you don't have faith, you're not going to get him. It's that simple. **

Did you ever wonder why the LC never talked about faith much? They reason is they don't really value it. They value assenting to the group much more than they value faith. In fact, a person of real faith is a threat to the LC because they can't control him. They want people who will wring their hands because they missed a "meeting" and don't know how to get God in any other way. The whole system is based on keeping people weak enough so they need the system. This is why they bad-mouth "spiritual giants." To them a normal Christian is one who must get everything through others, never directly from God. And they've manufactured a bunch of them.

These guys who go back after years never overcame that conditioning. They got institutionalized. They never developed their own faith in God.

** "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." Hebrews 11:6.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The common symptom I see with people who never seem to shake oppressive memories of the LC--and that includes these people you see floating around the fringes of it for years, going back, trying to fix it and forever worrying about it--is this:

They never developed their own personal relationship with God.

I'm not talking about feeling or "enjoying" God or having some general appreciation of him. I'm talking about those who pray, read the word, are hungry and thirsty for righteousness, who ask, seek and knock, and do not let God go until they know they have encountered him and gotten a direct speaking from him. And they do this over and over and over again.

The LC, for all its claims of being so full of reality, steeped us in a pseudo, group-based, feelings-based spirituality that, when push came to shove, could not carry its own weight. Take away the support mechanism of peer approval, familiar culture and good feelings, and we fell apart.

Why? Because we had no real relationship with God. Our Christian experience was based on feelings, assenting to the correct doctrines, and being approved by others. Sure, we had some shallow "enjoyment." But few of us ever dealt with God to the point where (1) we really got to know him and (2) he really changed us. Very few.

The result was we remained "infants, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine." And that includes these guys who think they have to fix or get back in the LC. Sorry but that's my assessment, and my experience.

Great comments here Igzy.

In my view, we also must expose to current LC members the methods used by LSM to rob people of their personal relationship with our saving God and Father.

One prominent technique is to obsess about the so-called "body of Christ." Their unhealthy and extreme views of "The Body" are absolutely self-serving. LSM constantly instills fears into all their members lest they became "independent." To a loyal member of the Recovery, being independent is far more serious than being sinful or mistreating other Christians.

In order to follow The Lord faithfully, we all must be willing to be condemned for being independent, acting on our own, or making decisions on our own, all the while being obedient to the Lord. The Recovery by design has created a system of man-pleasers, much the same as the Pharisees of old. Too many LC leaders have sacrificed their own conscience in order to oblige Anaheim, resulting in group think, rather than the real body of Christ, which He desires.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great comments here Igzy.

Thanks, Ohio.

And let me add, that if the LC ever really tried to develop people of genuine strong faith, that is people who truly know God and have the boldness to follow him wherever he leads, the system would fall apart. It would burst at the seams with the new wine.

They have to keep their members alive enough to fuel the system, but not so alive that they can function without it. So they hook them on their proprietary version of God (processed pablum, no firsthand knowledge), without which they feel they cannot live and for which they are utterly dependent on the movement.

So my advice to "lost soul" is grow your faith. Trust God, seek God, get to know God. Stack up experience after experience of him speaking directly to you, guiding you and coming through for you--experiences that you cannot deny and that no one can take away from you, and no snake oil salesman of any stripe can trick you into abandoning. That's what the Bible calls "the shield of faith."

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Igzy

God doesn't respond to desperation, pleading, begging or histrionics. He responds to one thing: FAITH. That's the currency of his kingdom.

This reminds me of Jesus' healing of the centurion's slave in Luke 7. The centurion never made any desperate plea per se, or even confessed Jesus as Lord, rather he simply and humbly combined his knowledge of some basic facts and combined this with some incredible faith..."Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof. Therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. For I too am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it"(vrs 6-8) Jesus was extremely impressed, not with his confession of who Jesus was, but with his raw faith in his divine healing power..."When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, 'I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.' And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the servant well".(vrs 9-10)

Love + Faith. Thank you brothers for giving me these precious messages. I read the Bible, but not very good at memorizing, nor at applying. Aaron's post is so wonderful that I long for a long time. Early FTTT is not like current FTTA (maybe I am incorret also). I was occupied with other things (e.g., pursuing an orange dot on my name tag and a sister maybe), couldn't recall much reading on the Bible.

I gain greatly from the sharings. Moderator: on my computer's McAfee shows warning on this site. It took me a while to come visit.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

These guys who go back after years never overcame that conditioning. They got institutionalized. They never developed their own faith in God.

I've seen this, and know a brother in Miami that this would apply to; who said: "I don't want to know anything negative, even if it's true."

But it wouldn't fit Hosepipe, of Elden Hall fame. Because of his time in Elden he knew what a Spirit led meeting was.

He was one of the three bros (I being one) that got excommunicated by Mel Porter in the C. in Ft. Lauderdale. But he had already walked away, telling me that there was no Holy Spirit in the meetings.

But after a few years God started bugging him to go back, he told me. Hosepipe said no. God said yes. Hose said no, God said yes. Hose said no. So forth and so on, until Hosepipe relented.

When he went back he had to face the elders, who said he could come to meetings but couldn't speak.

After a few months of silence, you know how brothers get, one of them troubled by Hosepipe's lack of joining in, started openly bugging him to testify. He looked at the elders and they shook their heads yes.

That was the beginning of the end for the C. in Ft. Lauderdale.

Eventually Hoser called them all into deciding who they were going to follow, the Holy Spirit or Witness Lee ; God or Lee? The meeting exploded with anger and fists, and almost broke out into a fight.

After that meeting the Lee loyalists went and declared the ground in Boca Raton. While the non-Lee loyalists stayed in Ft. Lauderdale.

And now, there is no C. in Ft. Lauderdale, and the C. in Boca, after 30 yrs, hasn't grown from the 40 members that started it.

And Hosepipe declares that God sent him back as a prophet.

Following God causes havoc to human institutions.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And Hosepipe declares that God sent him back as a prophet.

Following God causes havoc to human institutions.

I have a close LC friend who basically says that if no one is offended by your sharing, then perhaps you are not faithful to the Lord and His word. People hating us for speaking for Christ is part of following the Lord.

Igzy shared:

"Did you ever wonder why the LC never talked about faith much? They reason is they don't really value it. They value assenting to the group much more than they value faith. In fact, a person of real faith is a threat to the LC because they can't control him. They want people who will wring their hands because they missed a "meeting" and don't know how to get God in any other way. The whole system is based on keeping people weak enough so they need the system. This is why they bad-mouth "spiritual giants." To them a normal Christian is one who must get everything through others, never directly from God. And they've manufactured a bunch of them."

This is so very true--here Igzy nails it. The LC has become a mediator between them and God. This is what creates the fear and the desperate need.

Over and over I tell my spouse that there is only ONE mediator between God and man--Christ! It never sinks in. I point out that we will each face judgment alone before Christ with no church at our side. Each of us must answer individually and this totally negates the power of the church to "get us there" since they are not there to advocate for us or take part of the blame. (This, of course, is obvious.)

And regarding the HWFMR, I note this: at the top of each page are a couple of "chunks" or Bible verses and then two full pages of what Lee or Nee has to say about those "chunks". Therefore, we are steeped in what men have to say about God's Word rather than what IT says directly to each of us in our own situation and growth. I no longer read it at all, but my spouse relies on this almost completely for "time with the Lord". It is really quite boring and full of strange statements that pop up and are seemingly accepted by everyone. There is never any serious examination or discussion about what is being taught and whether or not it is correct.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by awareness

...........Following God causes havoc to human institutions.

More like RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS... havoc among religious institutions... hmmm... well... let's see here... religous institutions are made up of humans... therefore making them human institutions...

ok. I stand corrected !

Love Ya all!
Carol

[awareness]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

More like RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS... havoc among religious institutions... hmmm... well... let's see here... religous institutions are made up of humans... therefore making them human institutions...

ok. I stand corrected !

Love Ya all!
Carol

And whether right or wrong I stand with ya sister.

A book published in 1978, “Snapping” helped me understand “what just happened” when I left the LC after 9 years in 3 different local churches (because of migration) in 1978. It was the first step in a long process of understanding what I went through as I tried to extract myself from the local church experience which was so overwhelmingly addictive (the words of the oracle, the friendships that develop, the time spent pray reading, reading etc). It goes back to our “born again experience” where on pages 32-34 in “Snapping” it states, “Among Christians in America, this powerful experience is…a surprising widespread occurrence….the experience of enlightenment is a completely natural one. Stripped of its supernatural components, it is simply a moment of fundamental human growth, of overwhelming feeling and understanding when an individual pushes through to those higher levels of consciousness that distinguish us as human beings.” My experience has been that because we associate this experience with the context of our environment (a Christian fundamental church as opposed to a Buddhist temple, for example) we associate it with being a Christian and believing in God, Jesus, and the HS.

The born again experience translates to those who have gone into the local church. There is a sense of enlightenment when we become a part of the local church which often gives us the feeling that “we have found it” with “it” being the ultimate answers in our lives. Everything we think or do subsequently seemingly reinforces our original feelings of enlightenment of being in the local church where we hear or read the words of the apostle of our time. (btw—I knew WL who asked me to move from Santa Cruz, CA to Detroit, MI in 1971 which I did) The Bible is enlightened by “HIS” words. Just think how unique that experience becomes when we literally believe we have found the ultimate truth and experience in our lifetime. Wow, that is so wonderful which leads us to more enlightened experiences. How could we not become more enlightened when we have heard the oracle of the world and understand the faith which we have given ourselves? Among the 5 billion people in the world we are the lucky ones who have found the absolute truth in the universe. It is just amazing, isn’t it? That is why the blended brothers’ words (who I presume are an extension of WL since there was not an apostle who followed) are so appreciated (check out cognitive dissonance). I brought many to Christ and many into the local churches because I was a true believer so I understand quite well what it is all about.

One of the problems in the local church is that they only try to proselytize other Christians and shy away from actually going out and preaching the gospel to the unconverted. I guess that is because there is this belief that those in the local church are at a higher spiritual level and really don’t need to preach the gospel to the unsaved. Thus, the local churches don’t grow.

[Eph]

Thanks for sharing, Dave. From your other post, you might have suggested that for some left the local churches, it might be better for them just stay in that realm. Please correct me if I misunderstood that. Could you offer any insight as how to overcome the aftermath? It is not easy for some of us to stay postive after leaving the local churches. As I read along posts on the forum, I see more and more positive examples that make me very comforting and know that the Lord is taking care of us.

Eph
I wish there was an easy answer but if you can extricate yourself from the LC, stay out. I don’t just mean stay out of the local church, I mean dump the doctrines, ideas and ‘benefits” you think you received. Otherwise you will never “get out”. If you come to realize that you have nothing of any benefit from the local church to offer to anyone you will begin the transition of finding freedom. The only real benefit I received was realizing that Christian churches in general (of course there are exceptions) are not going to help any of us. They are fragmented and broken. We all hoped the local churches would be the answer but what we found out was that they are as fragmented and broken as the rest of Christianity. Of course, we all are fragmented and broken and we need each other and the divinity within each of us but we don't need a church which makes us its prisoners.

This is a process and it takes some level of determination to leave and stay out. When I left in 1978 it was after I had brought in to the LC most of my 30 relatives as well as others from various university campuses and I just left. I didn’t want to contact them because I had already brought them in and I didn’t want to influence them again. Actually, I realized what a mess it was and I was concerned about trying to “help them” as I thought I was when I brought them into the church. I figured I had done enough damage. But, guess what? None of them ever called me and asked me why I left. Why? I presume they were under the spell of the elders. Who knows? I am now friends with most of them on “facebook”. One of my cousins recently told me that because I influenced his parents to follow me in a migration he was left behind to fend for himself at school and it really affected his life almost 40 years ago.

At the time I poured myself into my work and then in 1997 I emerged out from under all of it although I went through a process over the twenty years in between.

As I stated, it starts with determination to leave and get out and then the rest is dependent on each person and who they are inside. If you can break the dependency of the local church you have a chance. Especially if you can break the guilt trip they give you. I disagree with some who say that as long as you focus on Jesus that is all that matters. If that is important for you, than fine, but it is not essential. Again, it is a guilt trip especially emphasized by the local church. About 3 years ago I extricated myself from all the books associated with the LC (e.g. Watchman Nee, C.A. Coates etc) by selling them on ebay and I dumped the rest that I had been carrying around with me for 30 years. Maybe you had the experience of burnings where you burned things from your past at LC meetings. After you leave the LC you have to burn your past of the LC to grow as a person. Take it one step at a time—don’t rush anything other than get out and stay out. I hope this helps answer your question in some way. Hope you are doing well. Take care.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Dave

A book published in 1978, “Snapping” helped me understand “what just happened” when I left the LC . . .

. . . It goes back to our “born again experience” where on pages 32-34 in “Snapping” it states, “Among Christians in America, this powerful experience is…a surprising widespread occurrence….

Those long ago smart aleck's, Socrates, Pluto, & Aristotle, 500 yrs circa before Jesus walked the earth, spoke of this sudden drastic change that came over people. They referred to it as a Katharsis.

So, bro Dave and all, "Snapping" has been going on a long long time ... prolly back into prehistory ... archaeology may one day confirm.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by awareness

Those long ago smart aleck's, Socrates, Pluto, & Aristotle, 500 yrs circa before Jesus walked the earth, spoke of this sudden drastic change that came over people. They referred to it as a Katharsis.

So, bro Dave and all, "Snapping" has been going on a long long time ... prolly back into prehistory ... archaeology may one day confirm.

Of course it has been going on forever but back in the late sixties and early seventies there was the Jesus/Far Eastern/Mystic etc revolution in the US (helped along by the Beatles I might add--think Maharishi Mahesh Yogi). Not unlike the Great Awakening in the US in the late 1800s where people started experiencing "enlightenment" which ended up leading to Jehovah Witness and Mormonism religions etc. It just so happened that WL came to the US in the early 60s and he hit this "revolution" at the right time among young people. So, it was personal and not something to read about, like Socrates, and it wasn't just "being born again". It was an intense enlightening by the writings and personal teachings of WL/WN and often WL in person (our guru).

I remember the elders sending myself and Don O to Berkeley to meet with the brothers there because they were growing in a remarkable way. We brought back posters (which I still have) stating "this is the generation...what is driving us...it has to be God" etc. It was the boomer generation trying to find themselves and we were 75 million strong in the US. This was especially an issue as the Vietnam War raged on, the death of J. Kennedy in 63, R. Kennedy in 68, ML King in 68, riots in Detroit etc--we were all trying to make sense of it all. The book "Snapping" helped me understand parts of it to begin to pull my mind out of this "Katharsis" if you will. A lot that is going on with this forum is trying to make sense of it all after years of WL’s teachings ingrained in people’s minds. We have all coped in various ways but all have been affected or should I say “infected”.

Awareness--In regards to the lost soul who started this thread who is not a part of the revolution you and I went through---it is still the same process---I felt alone at the time although I did have friends, worked and was married but alone after I left from all of the LC people I knew...it took me time to end the guilt trip or even more that I although I had problems with the LC I still thought that we all had this great deep intense Christian knowledge that was laid on me by the LC/WL---I coped and was able to unload it --- Snapping was just one little step in the process. It takes time and it is not easy---we all cope differently and a lot of it is just part of our personality and why we got involved in the first place.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I grew up in a sad family. I was saved through the gospel of a college classmate, moved into a brother's house, and attended the FTTT. In early 2000, I decided to leave it all behind. It was a very very difficult emotion battle, accompany with fear, shame, and regret. Your posts have encouraged me in many ways. I am alone with no friends to turn to, not knowing where I am heading. I started to read the four gospels and hope that the Lord will help me. Thank you again.

Lost Soul--It's been a couple weeks since you posted this. Are you still "all alone with no friends to turn to"? It's pretty hard for most of us to get on in life without the support of friends or family. Can you identify any people in your life who you can trust and talk to. I don't know if I could have made the transition out of the local church without a support system on the outside. I'm pretty sure that others here have had similar experiences. Hopefully you can find people that you can trust to become your new support system now that you have left the LC.

[Eph]

Originally Posted by zeek

Lost Soul--It's been a couple weeks since you posted this. Are you still "all alone with no friends to turn to"? It's pretty hard for most of us to get on in life without the support of friends or family. Can you identify any people in your life who you can trust and talk to. I don't know if I could have made the transition out of the local church without a support system on the outside. I'm pretty sure that others here have had similar experiences. Hopefully you can find people that you can trust to become your new support system now that you have left the LC.

Zeek, thanks, I am the OP "Lost Soul." I have gained great support from this forum. Hopefully I can somewhat contribute too. When I see many of you are going strong, the myth of curse by God if leaving the local churches is just a trick. I saw a picture of Terry's big family reunion with God's abundant blessing. Isn't that beautiful?

[Eph]

Originally Posted by Dave

Awareness--In regards to the lost soul who started this thread who is not a part of the revolution you and I went through---it is still the same process---I felt alone at the time although I did have friends, worked and was married but alone after I left from all of the LC people I knew...it took me time to end the guilt trip or even more that I although I had problems with the LC I still thought that we all had this great deep intense Christian knowledge that was laid on me by the LC/WL---I coped and was able to unload it --- Snapping was just one little step in the process. It takes time and it is not easy---we all cope differently and a lot of it is just part of our personality and why we got involved in the first place.

Dave, thanks for the posts you've answered for me. I can safely proclaim that most of your age group (joined the local church in the early 70') are loving and caring. You did things for a cause and I thank the Lord for that.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Eph

Zeek, thanks, I am the OP "Lost Soul." I have gained great support from this forum. Hopefully I can somewhat contribute too. When I see many of you are going strong, the myth of curse by God if leaving the local churches is just a trick. I saw a picture of Terry's big family reunion with God's abundant blessing. Isn't that beautiful?

Mystery solved! Glad you find the forum helpful. Yes, I appreciate your posts. I haven't seen the photo of Terry's family. I'll look for it.