RE: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JoCasteel

Brother Lee was even held in such high regard that we exhumed his body in 2004, nearly seven years after he died in 1997 (http://bit.ly/ReburiedBrotherLee) and moved him to Grace Terrace, a multi-million dollar graveyard purchased for and by the saints so the saints would not have to be buried with Christians from Christianity. In the “Fellowship Concerning Grace Terrace” video we said that, “the saints would not have to be buried in cemeteries that have all kinds of evil things there, and worldly things, religious things which are mostly worldly, but that the recovery could have something set aside for its own behalf”

This has got to be the biggest scam ever inflicted upon the LC's. Can you imagine hundreds of brothers from around the country showing up for a funeral service RE-burying WL in a "less evil, less worldly, less religious" plot which he doesn't have to share with anyone from "poor, poor, Christianity?" This just blows my mind. I was in the Recovery when this happened in 2004, and I never knew this.

Does anyone know if Philip or Timothy Lee is buried there at Grace Terrace? If LSM demands a "less evil, less worldly, less religious" burial plot for their beloved idol, then they better not let his decaying carcass any where near his kids.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This has got to be the biggest scam ever inflicted upon the LC's. Can you imagine hundreds of brothers from around the country showing up for a funeral service RE-burying WL in a "less evil, less worldly, less religious" plot which he doesn't have to share with anyone from "poor, poor, Christianity?" This just blows my mind. I was in the Recovery when this happened in 2004, and I never knew this.

Does anyone know if Philip or Timothy Lee is buried there at Grace Terrace? If LSM demands a "less evil, less worldly, less religious" burial plot for their beloved idol, then they better not let his decaying carcass any where near his kids.

Ohio,
I knew that Lee was “frozen” for 30 days before his first funeral so “everybody could get there” but I had not heard that his body was moved to another location either.

I don’t know that it’s gross and hideous to relocate a body from one cemetery to another. It probably happens more often than we know for more practical reasons...without fanfare...just do what you need to do. What’s gross and hideous is making a show of it; having a “re-burial” service (really?) and basically saying out loud that a dead body is “too good” to remain buried with “unclean” dead bodies! This sounds like some kind of pagan ritual to me.

Can you see Billy Graham’s family doing something like this?

Nell

[MrsFreedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This has got to be the biggest scam ever inflicted upon the LC's. Can you imagine hundreds of brothers from around the country showing up for a funeral service RE-burying WL in a "less evil, less worldly, less religious" plot which he doesn't have to share with anyone from "poor, poor, Christianity?" This just blows my mind. I was in the Recovery when this happened in 2004, and I never knew this.

Does anyone know if Philip or Timothy Lee is buried there at Grace Terrace? If LSM demands a "less evil, less worldly, less religious" burial plot for their beloved idol, then they better not let his decaying carcass any where near his kids.

Philip Lee is indeed buried in Grace Terrace.

You can search the names of anyone buried there through the Grace Terrace website. It's a bit clunky, but it can be done.

Witness Lee is buried at the head of "The Crescent of Glorification" between his two wives. I'm hoping the first wife just has an honorary headstone. Watchman Nee also has what I'm hoping is an honorary headstone close to WL.

Philip Lee is right there with the family. A striking example of the nepotism that is rife in the so-called Lord's recovery.

http://bit.ly/FellowshipConcerningGraceTerrace

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by MrsFreedom

Philip Lee is indeed buried in Grace Terrace.

You can search the names of anyone buried there through the Grace Terrace website. It's a bit clunky, but it can be done.

Oh the hypocrisy!

W. Lee is too good to be buried next to genuine Christians from pitiful Christianity because they are too ""evil, worldly, and religious," yet he is "honored" to be buried with his reprobate, profligate sons?

At the "The Crescent of Glorification" no less!

Money making schemes have a way of white-washing tombstones, eh?

Jesus Himself had a few things to say about this: (Mt 23.27)

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.

In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

[aron]

Video of Ron Kangas referencing Jo Casteel's letter and the internet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1MM...F7_EQRroFEw7Kg

[Nell]

Does anyone remember the “message” Ron Kangas gave about “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”?

I heard the audio tape years ago and couldn’t believe it. It was a no-kidding lecture about close encounters with aliens from another planet. Serious as a heart attack. He defined encounters of the first, second and third kinds and sounded pretty much like the movie. No connection to the LC, etc.

No kidding.

Nell

[MrsFreedom]

I'm going to start throwing a few comments over onto this thread from Facebook so they can live on over here on the LCD forum.

FB comment:

Here's what the FTTs are good for: training you to submit to asinine rules and never question so-called deputy authority. The FTTs are literally Witness Lee propaganda schools, not Bible schools. You *think* you are going to study the Bible, but really it's to learn all about Witness Lee and his heretical teachings which you are taught are completely orthodox. Meanwhile you *think* they are orthodox because you never actually learn anything about genuine christian apologetics. Proper exegesis is irrelevant when it's literally all about Witness Lee and his eisegesis.

In fact, you might get through 2 years of this "school" and never hear terms like exegesis and hermeneutics.

And since they can wave the "We Were Wrong!" article around to somehow prove that other christians believe they are so orthodox, you blindly believe you are simply because you are told so.

For the record, I was all in when I went through my 2 years of the FTTA. I sacrificed my Registered Dietitian career to go. It's only when looking back in hindsight now I can see clearly what it was. I felt like the training gave me a "vision" that kept me. I now realize if you hear something enough, anyone can have a "controlling vision."

The FTTs produce the cream of the crop "serving ones" who can go to their localities and be under the thumb of LSM through their local elders. It's literally about producing the best rule followers and the ones who will do LSM's bidding from afar.

The entire goal is to produce saints completely sold on Witness Lee who will continue propagating him and his "ministry." The graduates can then serve on college campuses and unethically recruit new converts in and slowly get them hooked on buying LSM ministry materials and training services.

Millions upon millions are spent every year on paying for the serving ones to recruit college youth in.

The environment is so unhealthy. You aren't allotted enough sleep and the militant style and way it is run produces so many people with anxiety, depression, insomnia, and other mental and physical issues.

Due to its militant nature, one change I think LSM needs to make system-wide for all its trainings is to have psychological evals for all prospective trainees.
Here's a video I put on my main FB post that shows a slice of the FTTT. Note the matching LSM clothes, sleeping in matching clothes, LSM logo on the sheets...
http://bit.ly/ExtremeFTTPractices

[aron]

Originally Posted by Nell

Does anyone remember the “message” Ron Kangas gave about “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”?
I heard the audio tape years ago and couldn’t believe it. It was a no-kidding lecture about close encounters with aliens from another planet. Serious as a heart attack. He defined encounters of the first, second and third kinds and sounded pretty much like the movie. No connection to the LC, etc.

I missed that but heard about it. I wonder what the “amens” were like from the assembly. Kinda like this audio – the audience is rather subdued.

The first rule of the LC is that when Big Brother (or his Chief Blended Cheerleader) is at the dais, war stories and sea stories and speculative tangents are okay. But at the microphone afterward, you get two minutes, and then the piano bangs. And only “Affirmation” is allowed, no “Critique”. And no speculation.

In the LC, the first rule is that there’s one set of expectations for Big Brother and another rule for everyone else. In order to support this, they go back to the OT, because the NT never suggests this. In fact, Paul could stand up to the Peter/James/Jerusalem contingent “to their face” and survive.

Oh, but Paul was the new MOTA, is the LC Party line. Well then John Ingalls was the MOTA when he (scripturally, a la Matt 18) called out Witness Lee for allowing his profligate son to run roughshod over the assemblies.

But wait - it's not like that - Lee (like Paul) was MOTA-for-life, you see. Nobody covered Peter’s errors but “the age changed” with Paul and now suddenly MOTA was untouchable and even when he was wrong, he was right. Nice, huh? Convenient plot twist. And then when Lee died the age changed again (!!) and now nobody gets to be Seer of the Divine Revelation anymore, and the Museum Keepers are the new Untouchables. All of this of course is unsupported by NT scripture. You’d think if rebellions of this nature (speaking up against the MOTA/Deputy God) were “the most serious sins” then Paul would have given us some help instead of forcing us to turn to Korah and Miriam and Ham.

Here’s what I think: I think we’re more liable to judgment if we DON’T speak up. If the self-appointed MOTA says that 17 of the first 20 Psalms are “natural concepts” even if Psalms 2, 8, and 16, are linchpins of NT theology, and nowhere does the NT tell us to pan the remaining text, then we MUST speak up. Don’t you think WL and RK are also accountable for every footnote, every message, if we're accountable for every post, text, tweet and 'like'?

If the MOTA Party Line lauds women as pioneers of recovery, even MOTA-hood (M Guyon, J Penn-Lewis, ME Barber, D Yu, P Wang, E Fishchbacher, R Lee et al) don’t you think someone would note the discrepancy between that and today's “women can’t teach because Paul said so” line? If "women can't teach" then how did Mary McDonough "recover the three parts of man"? I think someone MUST speak up.

And I do apologize for my occasionally harsh tone, and disrespectful slights. But when I used the words “brain-dead” I really meant it. You have to shut your brain off completely to sit there and not be bothered by this. It's just inane.

[aron]

Originally Posted by MrsFreedom

I'm going to start throwing a few comments over onto this thread from Facebook so they can live on over here on the LCD forum.

FB comment:

Here's what the FTTs are good for: training you to submit to asinine rules and never question so-called deputy authority. The FTTs are literally Witness Lee propaganda schools, not Bible schools. You *think* you are going to study the Bible, but really it's to learn all about Witness Lee and his heretical teachings which you are taught are completely orthodox.

Jo, so many people were encouraged that someone spoke up, as your post above. Clearly the FB reaction shows that people were waiting for some kind of venue to call the chains of repression what they were.

The other thing that's so encouraging about your FB letter is the unremitting affirmation of your position. Here's one such affirmation posted today: "The connection to god is a very personal one and I believe no other person, leader or group can tell you how to believe."

That pretty much made my day. I was like, "Ayyyyyeeemmmeeennnn...."

Everyone has their own unique journey. The chief thing is to take responsibility for one's own (thoughts, beliefs, actions, feelings), and to avoid stumbling the person next to you. Because they're on a journey, just as real to them as yours is to you. And Jesus taught this over and over and over again, How you treat the Other Guy (or Gal) is how God is going to deal with you. Everyone got the same command: Own your own journey, and do your best to validate your neighbour on theirs. As much as you can validate (encourage, support) others along the way, so your own goes forward. "Until we all arrive..."

The Good News is pretty simple at its core.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by MrsFreedom

The FTTs are literally Witness Lee propaganda schools, not Bible schools.

That's precisely why I did not want to go. Ministry is simply not comprehensive. I realized there was much focus on one part of the Bible and neglecting other parts.
I'm more clear now what I was then, but there are certain books in the Bible the ministry just avoided (except if there was a training given on the book).

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Nell

Does anyone remember the “message” Ron Kangas gave about “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”?

I heard the audio tape years ago and couldn’t believe it. It was a no-kidding lecture about close encounters with aliens from another planet. Serious as a heart attack. He defined encounters of the first, second and third kinds and sounded pretty much like the movie. No connection to the LC, etc.

No kidding.

Nell

Please, find this audio, describe it in more detail, was this a church meeting? Training? Where, when? What did he say, why ???????????

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Please, find this audio, describe it in more detail, was this a church meeting? Training? Where, when? What did he say, why ???????????

There is a transcript of it I saw a number of years ago. As I remember it there was nothing damning in it, I think it took the position that aliens were fallen angels trying to deceive mankind not unlike Hal Lindsey and others. I don't know what became of my copy. I think I received a copy of it from an elder in the southeast. Some of the 80 year olds have some stories they should share before they die. Confession is good for the soul. They should realize that when they open their eyes after death they won't be present with WL but with the exhalted Lamb of God to whom the Father has given all authority and power. There is no mention of WL.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Please, find this audio, describe it in more detail, was this a church meeting? Training? Where, when? What did he say, why ???????????

My apologies. Please start a new topic for continued discussion. We should respect this one. My bad.

Nell

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by MrsFreedom

Philip Lee is indeed buried in Grace Terrace.

You can search the names of anyone buried there through the Grace Terrace website. It's a bit clunky, but it can be done.

Witness Lee is buried at the head of "The Crescent of Glorification" between his two wives. I'm hoping the first wife just has an honorary headstone. Watchman Nee also has what I'm hoping is an honorary headstone close to WL.

Philip Lee is right there with the family. A striking example of the nepotism that is rife in the so-called Lord's recovery.

http://bit.ly/FellowshipConcerningGraceTerrace

I attended the WL re-burial service at Grace Terrace and subsequently created a simple website for that event. This was prior to sister Lee & Philip Lee's passing.

Video recordings of the all-day 1997 WL Memorial Meeting can be viewed here:
Stadium Meeting Part 1
Stadium Meeting Part 2
Graveside Forrest Lawn Cypress, CA

P.S.

[Nell]

Sorry folks. Comments here have gone off track. Let's please get back on topic. Create another topic if you wish to continue, or there may be an existing topic appropriate for your comments. We will likely be moving some of these posts...including mine...to a more appropriate place.

Thanks to all---
Nell