RE: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Facebook posting by Jo Casteel June 25th 2019
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From a saint in the church in Fullerton,

“The elders in the church in Fullerton announced a sexual predators sin in the meeting last lord’s day. There were 12 accusations against him and they waited 6 years to expose him. I think your Facebook post helped to get it done.”

THIS. THIS IS WHY I’M SPEAKING UP. After releasing my letter I have had report after report coming in from saints from all over regarding hidden abuses.

I have had to be in touch with the police due to learning so many coverups in the Lord’s recovery. Some are from years ago, some are current. I have learned of more cases of assault on sisters than I would ever want to know. It’s been horrible having stories flooding in from the many abuses.

30 years ago, THE LORD sent men of God from around the globe to Witness Lee decrying the abuses and sexual immorality at LSM. They were gifted leaders from SoCal, Europe, Texas, Africa, Northeast, Southeast and personal co-workers with WL. Their accounts of events have filled this LCD Forum. Witness Lee discarded them all as trash, accused them of being vile lepers orchestrating a global rebellion -- all to protect his degenerate son Philip and his own growing empire.

15 years ago, THE LORD sent Lee's perhaps most gifted student Titus Chu to the Blendeds, using pages of quotes from Nee's and Lee's own writings. TC, highly respected in both the US and SE Asia, attempted to bring much needed reforms in the Recovery to leaders at LSM who had totally lost their way. They held a Kangaroo Court at their Whistler Resort ITERO in absentia accusing him of all sorts of non-biblical "heresies," like wanting clean sheets in Thailand. Since then every brother or sister protesting LSM's actions has also been thrown under the bus.

Today, these sins and crimes, past and present, have long been covered by Recovery leaders, while they punish the victims for speaking up. Abusers, molesters, and enablers are protected from accountability by numerous false teachings, dozens of legal threats by the DCP staff, and their horrendous bully pulpit. But times have changed. We have passed thru the #MeToo era, and have their most feared enemy -- the internet. Since the Recovery leadership will not listen to any of those THE LORD sends to them, they must be treated as Gentiles. Victims should call the police, and not their elders.

THE LORD hates evil shepherds that hurt His children. The Bible is filled with His attitudes about them. Recovery leaders have rejected every Prophet which THE LORD has sent to them. Has He not judged Israel for killing the prophets He sent to them. Maybe they will listen to the Police. Perhaps the Press.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

30 years ago, THE LORD sent men of God from around the globe to Witness Lee decrying the abuses and sexual immorality at LSM. They were gifted leaders from SoCal, Europe, Texas, Africa, Northeast, Southeast and personal co-workers with WL. Their accounts of events have filled this LCD Forum. Witness Lee discarded them all as trash, accused them of being vile lepers orchestrating a global rebellion -- all to protect his degenerate son Philip and his own growing empire.

15 years ago, THE LORD sent Lee's perhaps most gifted student Titus Chu to the Blendeds, using pages of quotes from Nee's and Lee's own writings. TC, highly respected in both the US and SE Asia, attempted to bring much needed reforms in the Recovery to leaders at LSM who had totally lost their way. They held a Kangaroo Court at their Whistler Resort ITERO in absentia accusing him of all sorts of non-biblical "heresies," like wanting clean sheets in Thailand. Since then every brother or sister protesting LSM's actions has also been thrown under the bus.

Today, these sins and crimes, past and present, have long been covered by Recovery leaders, while they punish the victims for speaking up. Abusers, molesters, and enablers are protected from accountability by numerous false teachings, dozens of legal threats by the DCP staff, and their horrendous bully pulpit. But times have changed. We have passed thru the #MeToo era, and have their most feared enemy -- the internet. Since the Recovery leadership will not listen to any of those THE LORD sends to them, they must be treated as Gentiles. Victims should call the police, and not their elders.

THE LORD hates evil shepherds that hurt His children. The Bible is filled with His attitudes about them. Recovery leaders have rejected every Prophet which THE LORD has sent to them. Has He not judged Israel for killing the prophets He sent to them. Maybe they will listen to the Police. Perhaps the Press.

30 years ago they covered their ears, eyes and mouth. Why? According to EM it made WL happy. 15 years ago they covered their ears and gnashed their teeth at Titus. So here we are today? Who is responsible for this? That is what I want to know.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

30 years ago they covered their ears, eyes and mouth. Why? According to EM it made WL happy. 15 years ago they covered their ears and gnashed their teeth at Titus. So here we are today? Who is responsible for this? That is what I want to know.

I want to know what "this" is?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I want to know what "this" is?

When John I. came to Irving and talked to Ray and Benson they covered their ears, saying it was a local matter. They have to bear responsibility for that action. They participated in the sister's rebellion, facilitating the cover up of PL's sins. They have to bear responsibility for that action. When brothers raised alarms whether from Germany or Ohio, they attacked, slandered, and excommunicated them. They must take responsibility for those actions. All those actions have played a part in allowing abusers to run free in their little sect, and they are the ones responsible for that. They have been fully aware of what was going on from the first (I was in Houston when one of the victims of PL came to live there) and they chose to cover their ears, eyes and mouth. Well, they will be judged for every action they have done and also for all the things they have not done.

The Lord says "with what judgement you judge you shall be judged". I was quoting something Ray once said to me. A mistake had been made during the construction of the Irving meeting hall, I had supervised the brother who made the mistake and now Ray was berating us asking "I want to know who is responsible for this!" Which of course was me.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Ohio

15 years ago, THE LORD sent Lee's perhaps most gifted student Titus Chu to the Blendeds, using pages of quotes from Nee's and Lee's own writings. TC, highly respected in both the US and SE Asia, attempted to bring much needed reforms in the Recovery to leaders at LSM who had totally lost their way. They held a Kangaroo Court at their Whistler Resort ITERO in absentia accusing him of all sorts of non-biblical "heresies," like wanting clean sheets in Thailand. Since then every brother or sister protesting LSM's actions has also been thrown under the bus.

Ohio, if Titus Chu was Lee's best student then what is that really saying considering all the distain here for Witness Lee?

I'll share what's undoubtedly going to be an unpopular view here on the forum.

The reason I came to these boards a little over a year ago was because of concern for the people I've gotten to know, not within Witness Lee's Local Churches, but within Titus Chu's.

I understand you left in 2006 so you may be unaware of what the Mid-West Local Churches look like today but I will say this; When I first started reading about Witness Lee and his ministry on the forums, I thought to myself how familiar it all looked and sounded...

Now I don't know Titus Chu intimately, and frankly I'm not sure if that's something that is even possible (because everyone's all so suspicious of one another), but I have seen enough to judge. And I've actually seen a lot...

From what I have seen, I can tell you this; the "Kangaroo court" and the quarantining of Titus for "selfish ambition" are both fully justified....at least in the sight of men. And I have good reason to say that.

After 13 years of so called "reform" and no real change or distinction in doctrine or practice between the LSM and GLA it's obvious that the Lord hadn't sent Titus at all, Titus sent Titus. If you want to know why reform didn't happened, Neitzsche and the abyss explains it.

Neither side listened to each other probably because both sides were seeking their own interests in 2006. Either way, why would you want to reform something that wasn't the Lord's to begin with?

If it's foolish to think God chooses sides in politics, the same applies here. LSM vs GLA in no different then Democrat vs Republican. Two opposing parties, same single system.

With that said, all that were directly involved on both sides need to repent for the damage this division caused to all the families. And anyone that's keeping that division alive isn't helping the situation.

Pray for Titus and pray for the leaders in the LSM so that they can be both reconciliated to each other and to Christ. But if no reconciliation takes place, then like Jo and Greg, people need to start leaving those unhealthy environments otherwise they'd just be fighting someone else's battle.

[Ohio]

Jo S, you're hovering over every thread.

Better take your politics over to Alt-Views.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Ohio, if Titus Chu was Lee's best student then what is that really saying considering all the distain here for Witness Lee?

I've said before, that Dong Yu Lan and Titus Chu probably were Witness Lee's best students. When DYL's lieutenants told inquirer's that his (DYL) finances were a "black box" that none could open (questions were raised because DYL's children apparently were getting the commercial contracts to manage group housing and meeting spaces), I thought, "Boy that sounds just like WL with Saul Benoit." Coincidence? Probably not.

Likewise, Titus Chu wanted to be a Spiritual Giant (LSM's own term), and the Blendeds had said that the age of Spiritual Giants was over, so they pushed him out. His crime was that he wanted to be just like Witness Lee. At some point it should be painfully obvious that this is a system created and administered by fallen, grasping humans. It isn't the Lord's recovery. It is human selfishness fueling error. And how many people got hurt?

"It would be better that you do not stumble one of these little ones..."

[Raptor]

The following is in reference to a recent post from Jo Casteel on her FB letter. She writes about a LSM video that came out announcing a monthly subscription to a "new" publication: "Ministry Digest". Please take note of the following definition of the "job" of an elder that is slipped in...(and then run the other way.)

“To be an elder is actually very easy. It’s very simple. We have one job: bring the ministry to the saints and bring the saints to the ministry. That solves all the problems in the church and it solves all the saints problems.”

http://bit.ly/2019FunctionofanElderMinistry

My take: When in the christian life and church life you make the goal something other than the faith, something other than Christ, you open the door for all kinds of other things to come in, no matter how good or "scriptural" that other goal is. When you make a man and his ministry the goal (it does not matter at all that you believe it is THE, unique, exclusive, complete and final ministry of the age), everything is distorted, because you have already misaimed concerning the faith.

So having been seduced by the bait of such a "noble MOTA cause" you arrive at a distorted understanding from which you leaven, reduce and distort the function of an elder to a "simple job" of bringing "the ministry to the saints and the saints to the ministry". You have allowed something else to come in.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Raptor

My take: When in the christian life and church life you make the goal something other than the faith, something other than Christ, you open the door for all kinds of other things to come in, no matter how good or "scriptural" that other goal is. When you make a man and his ministry the goal (it does not matter at all that you believe it is THE, unique, exclusive, complete and final ministry of the age), everything is distorted, because you have already misaimed concerning the faith.

So having been seduced by the bait of such a "noble MOTA cause" you arrive at a distorted understanding from which you leaven, reduce and distort the function of an elder to a "simple job" of bringing "the ministry to the saints and the saints to the ministry". You have allowed something else to come in.

I remember a comment TC made about "door-knocking." Every last detail was spelled out for the "door-knockers;" nothing was left to chance, the technique was perfected -- what to wear, what to say, how to answer, and don't forget to "turn left" once you finish with the last house.

Then TC quipped in a Cleveland brothers meeting, "we should hire unbelievers to do this, they could do a better job than us."

[aron]

(Recently posted on the FB page)

“CULT-LIKE MATH 101”

(➕ ➖ ✖️ ➗)

4 ways to identify “cult-like” behaviors with simple MATH:

➕ “Cults” typically publish their own materials in addition to the Bible, and end up promoting them beyond the Bible itself. They feel that the Bible is insufficient in itself and distribute their own “publications” that they use to explain and promote their beliefs and positions above and beyond that of the Bible. / Any questions here??? Go to any “local church” meeting and what are the majority if not ALL of the “followers” speaking and quoting from?? Check the name on the side of it. Witness Lee/LSM?? What books do they have on display there?? Any outside of LSM publications??? How many? (Do the math!) ✔️

➖ “Cults” typically also detract or devalue truths in the “Bible”. Examples from LSM: 1) Teaching that the miracles that the Lord performed are not “relevant” today, that they were only relevant to prove that Jesus was the messiah, and are not “relevant” today... / EXCEPT that Jesus said that even greater things will be done in His name after He goes to the Father and the gift of the Holy Spirit is received by the believers. 2) Teaching that speaking in tongues is immature and not “relevant” today... / EXCEPT that Paul said he spoke in tongues “more than all of you”
3) Teaching that the book of James is too “low” and should not have been included in the Bible... / NO COMMENT needed here.
COMMENT: “Why are there so few “miracles” or “unexplainable acts of God” or even “fruit of the Spirit” experienced or observed in the “LSM churches”??? EASY: Read the end of Mathew 13: “Jesus did not perform many miracles there because their unbelief/lack of faith.” ✔️

✖️ “Cults” typically magnify, revere, and/or elevate a “man” to an “exalted” status. That one is easy: Witness Lee. Teaching that he was the last and greatest “minister of the age”, and that there will be no one else after him. At every “semi-annual training”, at least one significant portion of a message is taken to “defend” or “elevate” and promote the importance of Witness Lee, above that of any other member of the Body of Christ. / There is only ONE man who was ever “greater” than any other man; His name is Jesus! Even Paul himself said do not be a “follower” of him, and that he was the “least of these” and “unworthy to be called an apostle”. Paul did not think of himself as greater or higher or more significant than any other believer, and yet he wrote and unveiled the majority of the New Testament ministry or “economy”. / To this day, LSM churches use and quote almost, if not exclusively “Witness Lee” writings and publications in meetings. In fact they quote Witness Lee by far more than Paul or Jesus Himself. ✔️

➗ This one is easy. “Cults” typically create an atmosphere of “exclusivity” which in turn creates further division(s) among the body of Christ. That one has been mentioned and explained sufficiently in other posts. They speak of “poor poor Christianity”, demean and devalue other believers, including not recognizing other groups of believers as valid “local churches” that don’t follow the teachings of “Witness Lee”. ✔️

While you may not find some of these details specifically mentioned within the writings, teachings and/or publications of Witness Lee directly, you will undoubtedly find such RAMPANT views taught and propagated throughout their practices, gatherings, and “trainings”. To be clear, I have never read or heard (from multiple videos and publications) Witness Lee personally exalt himself to such status. Nor did I find his teachings and own words (for the most part) to promote such divisive and errant practices. However, I was personally trained by his supposed appointed leadership and successors, often referred to as “Brother We”, for two full years, completing the FTTA in 2002. I was most certainly taught by them directly, in addition to countless “elders” throughout the US, such errant, divisive, and “cult-like” practices, attitudes, and positions. But the most telling evidence, of course, is in the THOUSANDS of testimonies of those who have personally experienced the “fruit”/damage of such ministry, left such ministry, and continue to stand and testify to such atrocities.

Why such a strong word as “atrocities” you might ask?? That is in reference to the even GREATER number of lives who were raised or spent a substantial portion of their lives under such “ministry”, and who after experiencing such damaging “fruit” have ultimately lost, left and/or given up altogether their faith in God, who were taught/“brainwashed” the better part of their lives that there is nowhere else they could possibly meet on the earth, with any other group(s) apart from such self-proclaimed “local churches”, where they could find the riches and richness of the Lord Himself among other believers. I know countless numbers of them personally, as do the hundreds and thousands of those who have also publicly spoken their testimonies both here and elsewhere throughout the past decades, that have ultimately given up hope in “God” altogether because of that they were taught. By the way, that includes me also, where it has taken me years to get beyond such errant and divisive teachings to finally find the full peace and joy once again to pursue the Lord with “normal”, humble, seeking Christians among other groups. Yet WOW, what a joy it is to finally be set free from such bondage, clouds and darkness, and to once again be reunited with such pure, genuine, healthy, humble, seeking, loving, “fruit of the Spirit”-filled believers within the body of Christ, where NO “man” is exalted, except the NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, the Messiah Himself, JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD!!!

Jesus is Lord! Let NO other name be exalted!!!

But finally, make no mistake about it... My heart breaks and even mourns for those, many of which I consider to be some of the dearest believers and friends I have ever known, who are so deeply entrapped, entangled, and snared by it, and know no other way to go on with the Lord, apart from or outside of such dark and diluted, toxic “ministry”. This is by no means a personal attack directly against them, although I imagine most will receive it as such. Yet what does one do who so dearly loves the so many who blindly (horse blinders) and/or unknowingly continue to drink from such poisonous cup. Does one just leave quietly or silently and NOT sound the alarm or cry out to warn those whom they love concerning the poison within such cup that they have finally been able to so clearly identify. I can only imagine what happened to those who tried to do the same among other “cult-like” groups from within. I can only imagine how the leadership within those “cults” or “cult-like” groups referred to, spoke of, warned of, and taught concerning those who spoke out or resisted... Maybe like I was taught for two years, that they were the “opposers”, the “rebellious ones”, the “unclear ones”, “those without a proper governing or controlling vision” (well at least they admit to the “controlling” part there). Maybe they were also “inoculated”, or discouraged to not listen to, or be open to, or objectively consider any such criticism. Maybe they were also warned to not read such criticism as it would open them up to being “poisoned” too (another FEAR tactic).

SOUND FAMILIAR ANYONE???

Yet how would one come to realize that they were in fact being poisoned decade by decade, year after year, drop by drop???

Maybe by reading the word once again. Maybe by appealing to the Lord to open their eyes to see. Or maybe by simply considering the fruit from the tree... or LACK thereof??

Growth vs stagnation?
Lasting fruit vs diminished?
Oneness vs divisiveness?
Love vs judgement & criticism?
Humility vs pride?
Freedom vs control?
A “god-man” vs God HIMSELF?

Who do you follow???

A man who died 22 years ago?

Or a man who resurrected over 2000 years ago, and still lives today???

Don’t tell me “both.” Don’t bring up your “Paul and Timothy” analogy again. Timothy didn’t raise up churches to only teach and speak the words of Paul. You don’t see any other group of believers who meet and only publish, read, and speak from the writings of Paul. Or Peter. Or John. Or any other disciple. Or any other apostle... do you???

SO WHY WITNESS LEE ??? !!! ???

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The following is in reference to a recent post from Jo Casteel on her FB letter. She writes about a LSM video that came out announcing a monthly subscription to a "new" publication: "Ministry Digest". Please take note of the following definition of the "job" of an elder that is slipped in...(and then run the other way.)

“To be an elder is actually very easy. It’s very simple. We have one job: bring the ministry to the saints and bring the saints to the ministry. That solves all the problems in the church and it solves all the saints problems.”

http://bit.ly/2019FunctionofanElderMinistry

So an elder's job is very easy, you are a salesman for LSM. Sell the ministry, that is it.

Those not familiar with the LC may confuse "bring the saints to the ministry" with Paul's word that an elder should be counted as double honor who is able to minister the word. But our experience has shown they are not interested in elders who can minister the word, that is the fast track to becoming a target of LSM. No, "bring the saints to the ministry" simply means be a good salesman of LSM materials.

[byHismercy]

I knew I should have signed up for Cult Math when I had the chance.....I am so happy for Jo and her family....the Lord pulled the veil away, blessing them. He is who I credit for allowing me to see the system we were in.....I do feel it was a veil over my face. Asking Jo why she didn't see it sooner is silly, Harold. 'Why didn't you know back before you knew!?!' I think the deception of the LC goes deeper with those they consider 'outsiders', vs those on the inside, though. That is exactly why it is so insidious! At any rate, God bless Jo and family! Rebel Lady!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

I knew I should have signed up for Cult Math when I had the chance.....I am so happy for Jo and her family....the Lord pulled the veil away, blessing them. He is who I credit for allowing me to see the system we were in.....I do feel it was a veil over my face. Asking Jo why she didn't see it sooner is silly, Harold. 'Why didn't you know back before you knew!?!' I think the deception of the LC goes deeper with those they consider 'outsiders', vs those on the inside, though. That is exactly why it is so insidious! At any rate, God bless Jo and family! Rebel Lady!

Amen byHismercy. To me the math is simple. If it's not "The Lord's Recovery" then it's a religious cult.

And amen to Greg and Jo for opening up a #MeToo movement in the LSM local churches.

And I discovered that the local church was a cult way back in the early 80s. But I guess everyone discovers it in their own time.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by aron

Likewise, Titus Chu wanted to be a Spiritual Giant (LSM's own term), and the Blendeds had said that the age of Spiritual Giants was over, so they pushed him out. His crime was that he wanted to be just like Witness Lee. At some point it should be painfully obvious that this is a system created and administered by fallen, grasping humans. It isn't the Lord's recovery. It is human selfishness fueling error. And how many people got hurt?

Not to take away from anything in Jo's letter, but the ongoing power struggle between LSM and GLA is what's causing most harm to the people in the LC's today. Even if they're not directly involved in that struggle, they're unintentionally being caught in the crossfire.