The Image of the Beast

[ZNPaaneah]

I find it very interesting to read what Watchman Nee and then Witness Lee wrote on this, and then to consider it in light of the most recent advances which were literally unthinkable, even as recently as Witness Lee's ministry.

Revelation 13:14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Witness Lee:

Revelation 13:15 says, “And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause that whoever would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.” Here we see that the false prophet will actually be able to give the breath of life to the idol. The idol will thus be enlivened. No idol made by man has been able to speak (Psa. 115:5), but this last idol will be enabled to speak as a living image. This surely will be an astonishing sign to the earth's dwellers, causing them all to worship the image of Antichrist. (Life-Study of Revelation, Chapter 44, Section 3)

Watchman Nee:

This beast has three characteristics: (1) he has life; (2) he can speak; and (3) he can cause those who will not worship the image of the beast to be killed. This is different from what is written in Psalm 135:15-17 and Jeremiah 10:4-5. In ancient times the idols had mouths that could not speak, eyes that could not see, ears that could not hear, and were dead. But in the future it will not be the same. How does the image of the beast kill people? Of course, we do not know. It may be that the image of the beast passes death sentences upon people so that they will be killed, or it may be that the image of the beast itself has some kind of mechanism with which to kill people. (Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 1) Vol. 16: Study on Revelation, Chapter 7, Section 8)

My point is not that we have seen this happen yet, we still don't have the temple being rebuilt, we haven't seen the first beast killed and resuscitated, and therefore there is no second beast making people worship the first beast.

However, it is very clear that both Watchman Nee and Witness Lee could not understand how an image of the Beast, an idol, could speak. Now that we have Siri, Watson, and AI I think it is much easier for us to imagine this.

Second, Watchman Nee wondered how this image could kill those who didn't worship it. He had no idea and Witness Lee didn't even bring that up. But after watching these drones I think it is easier to imagine. You could fairly argue that the drones are not AI but are controlled by people, but just this year the military has been proposing AI versions of drones in a battlefield that could make this decision on its own. We certainly have the technological capability to have a talking image that can kill those that don't worship it.

I was also really struck when looking at this again about the phrase "no man can buy or sell". Back in 1980 we could imagine not being able to buy without some kind of credit card number. But here it also talks about not being able to sell without the assistance of this Beast and its image. That struck me because of the incredible role technology is now playing in retail. Although having a website is not a requirement to have a business, it may soon be impossible to survive in business without one. Amazon.com's growth has been astounding, and it isn't even the largest online retailer. What happens when you order something on the internet, the computer fills that order automatically and a drone autonomously delivers it to your house. Can anyone compete with that? If not, will anyone be able to sell that doesn't hook up with something like Amazon.com?

You may not be aware of this but retailers can gauge how long you paused at each display in the store and compare it to which items you bought to calculate how effective each display is and what to emphasize. We now have "pop up" billboards that identify approaching cars and then put up ads based on what the metrics recommends for each driver. Sifting through this kind of massive data is called "Big Data" and was unthinkable 10 years ago, but with the incredible improvement in data storage technology and the brilliant software design Hadoop. I mean you need a computer that is a beast to do the number crunching, but this is routinely done now.

For example, because of Big Data's ability to sift and respond instantly to so much data shipping by train can improve their average daily rate by 1 mph, that translates into something like $500 million in extra profit. Who can compete without this? Putting sensors everywhere can help a mechanic with 6 months experience have the intuition of a mechanic with 20+ years of experience. As Snowden so daringly revealed, 1984 is here in its chilling fulfillment. Yes Facebook, phone calls, texts and Email make it very easy for the computer to store every word you think might be out there, but they also have the ability to operate your computer and smart phone remotely. We have done this to catch bad guys by turning on their phones and turning them into microphones.

[ZNPaaneah]

It had been my purpose to have an open discussion on the teachings of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee without bashing the teaching. A response to the complaint by some in the thread about why no one in the LC posts here.

The post clearly is an open discussion on this teaching, which both WL and WN taught, but apparently since it will not lead to a bashing of their teaching it got moved to the "alt discussion" thread.

[ZNPaaneah]

In Daniel 7 there is a dream concerning 4 great beasts that come out of the sea. They represent human government or human civilization. It is interesting that our human government acts like a beast. This is similar to the analysis of corporations that operate based on a profit motive can be diagnosed as psychopaths.

Now why would a psychopath stalk you?

https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/1/

In Australia google has been recording the location of each person every 45 seconds. You can then go to this site to see the map of where you have been. This is valuable information for marketers. It is also very valuable information to the FBI if you were to become a person of interest in an investigation. It also seems to be the fulfillment of the Lord's word that "what you do in secret will be shouted from the rooftop".

But you should be aware that you are being tracked, stalked, by a very large beast.

[awareness]

OMG !!! The Terminator movie is not fiction.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

OMG !!! The Terminator movie is not fiction.

Is this a joke are did someone just defrost you from some cryogenic sleep.

Yes we now have autonomous vehicles that can drive themselves from point A to point B, these vehicles can be some of the deadliest vehicles on the Earth, however, based on US law a human has to actually make the decision to push the button. We have the technology to let the computer do it, but that makes some people uncomfortable. As long as we are faithful to abide by our laws and we don't get any crazies running the country, then no, the terminator movie is still not here, yet. John Conner can't prevent judgement day, only delay its coming.

[Evangelical]

When Lee says "Here we see that the false prophet will actually be able to give the breath of life to the idol" he is contradicting himself, because he also says "only God can give life".

So this life cannot be God's life, but a false, deceptive life, such as a machine. Before AI I suppose people imagined the beast to be some kind of supernatural power. But this seems unlikely now, given the way things are going with AI and dependence on the technology.

It also seems more likely to be AI to me considering that in past history there is no record in the Bible of Satan animating an inanimate object. I do not believe that Satan can make a dumb idol speak. Satan is an angel. Animating dead things is not within their capabilities. Only God can do that.

It is impossible for humans to create an artificial consciousness so at its core the AI will be computerized mathematics, or programmed by humans. There will always be a human involved at some level behind the scenes. http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/a-ne...s-like-humans/

ZNPaaneah mentioned retail and other such things, but it will be worse than that. In the future robots and AI will be tightly integrated with humans. Humans will be part human and part machine - people are already getting modifications and upgrades by machines. Additionally, humans will marry robots - this is already happening today. People will not be able to buy or sell because their own bodies and minds will be integrated with the technology, it will be physically impossible for them to do so unless they harm themselves in the process.

So I believe it will be AI/machines and behind that AI is humans in league with satan. We know they will be against religion, so they will be humanists, atheist or agnostic fulfilling an AI/robotic agenda for the world.

Furthermore, when AI/robots reach a point where they takeover human jobs, then humans will have nothing to do and will be paid a minimum wage on which to survive. Working will be optional or not necessary. At this point humans will be so dependent on machines that they will have no choice but to comply with the machines directions. Given there must be some human influence behind the scenes making all this happen, the likely candidates are some of the big IT/tech global corporations that we currently depend upon.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Is this a joke are did someone just defrost you from some cryogenic sleep.

I'm a human robot, like those created by Anthony Hopkins in Westworld.

ZNP, you have a very active imagination.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm a human robot, like those created by Anthony Hopkins in Westworld.

ZNP, you have a very active imagination.

Not as active as Evangelical.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

John Conner can't prevent judgement day, only delay its coming.

Think of the advantage they have now that they have maps of virtually every single person on this globe and where they were updated every 45 seconds. Now you want to go back and track down John Conner from 5 years ago, you'll know precisely where they were.

If you want to fight terrorism and some guy pops up on the grid driving a truck into a crowd, we can now retrace his steps for the last 5 years, see who he interacted with, who he called, who he texted, where he went to mosque, where he shopped.

On the other hand it would make it very tough for Anne Frank to hide. Who is going to risk their life to hide her that she has not contacted in the last five years?

[ZNPaaneah]

There is also the matter of the 3d printer. Many of us may not appreciate the value of this invention. You can program the 3d printer to print sensors, as many as you wish, and they can be super tiny. This doesn't add cost.

Also, if you were making a complex machine it often took 2 years of R&D, you would make the object, test it, make modifications, and then make prototype 2. This process could take 2 weeks, now it takes 2 hours, maybe 1 day at most. What used to take 2 years can now be done in 2 weeks. Think of the new phone coming out every two years, well now the time frame can very easily be 2 months. Same with automobiles, laptops, etc.

Complexity is free. Complexity is just sub routines you have already made and put on your computer.

So if you think improvements and change is happening at an incredible pace, well, we are about to shift into high gear.

[ZNPaaneah]

Think of the power of the cloud --

Uber taxi service -- you can order the taxi via your computer or phone. You can pay with the same phone. This taxi will soon be an automated, driverless car. All the data of your ordering the car can be stored and analyzed. As a result not only can Uber soon predict the demand for cars, not just time and amount but also location.

Now think of the savings. A ride to work could cost $5, and who is going to tip a computer? You could use Uber all the time and for half of what it would cost to own your own car, maybe even a third. Also, you don't have to worry about maintenance, registration, license, parking, tickets, etc. Also, you don't have to worry about the time spent during traffic, bring your laptop and do your work while the computer drives you around.

Amazon.com huge competitor to Walmart, and to Netflix, Barnes and Noble, iTunes and to HBO, and very soon to FedEx.

Apple computer is now becoming a car company, just like google, a search engine has become a phone company and car company.

[ZNPaaneah]

Now imagine the power of Watson.

We used to require students to do math on exam without the calculator but eventually decided that was stupid.

If every certified doctor has access to Watson would we want them to have that access on the exam? Medical school could be a six month program of learning how to use Watson. Just as sensors can revolutionize the auto mechanic, Watson could revolutionize many professions like lawyers and doctors.

If you improve the outcome, if you raise the level of the lowest possible performing doctor, and if you do all this at a small fraction of the cost then everyone gets top of the line medical care at a fraction of the cost today.

[Evangelical]

We can see that the next depravity in marriage after homosexuality will be marriage with robots:

http://fortune.com/2016/12/26/human-...relationships/

We may think that homosexual marriage is the end goal of Satan. Actually I believe its purpose is to tear down the true definition of marriage so that marriage with robots can be accepted in future. This is because while homosexual marriage is bad enough, it does not really affect heterosexuals. However robot marriage will be a corruption of all sexuality and have far greater consequences.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Now imagine the power of Watson.

We used to require students to do math on exam without the calculator but eventually decided that was stupid.

If every certified doctor has access to Watson would we want them to have that access on the exam? Medical school could be a six month program of learning how to use Watson. Just as sensors can revolutionize the auto mechanic, Watson could revolutionize many professions like lawyers and doctors.

If you improve the outcome, if you raise the level of the lowest possible performing doctor, and if you do all this at a small fraction of the cost then everyone gets top of the line medical care at a fraction of the cost today.

Removing the need for doctors in the process. Or doctors as we know them today.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

We can see that the next depravity in marriage after homosexuality will be marriage with robots:

http://fortune.com/2016/12/26/human-...relationships/

We may think that homosexual marriage is the end goal of Satan. Actually I believe its purpose is to tear down the true definition of marriage so that marriage with robots can be accepted in future. This is because while homosexual marriage is bad enough, it does not really affect heterosexuals. However robot marriage will be a corruption of all sexuality and have far greater consequences.

Oh Evangelical, no one marries their sex toys. Sheep maybe, but even that's very rare, and illegal. Robots will just be smart sex toys, and cheaper than marriage. haha. And minus the fighting.

Moreover we aren't living back in Adam's and Eve's days, when God 'commanded' "be fruitful and multiply." I'm sure now with our population explosion, God today is screaming, "STOP IT ALREADY. LOOK WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO MY CRITTERS (that I went thru the trouble to save from the flood)."

Science to the rescue. Sex robots will cut down on wild population growth (and save us from the coming sixth extinction). In this case the Transhumanists are right. Technology can save us (and even 'transform our human nature,' from that of being lowly primates, into something better, with better natures ... yea science, our savior.)

And your concern about marriage? Well the Bible long ago ruined "real" marriage. Consider Soloman.

Plus, with the divorce rate at around fifty percent, heterosexuals have already ruined the sanctity of marriage. Can the toothpaste be put back into the tube?

Thomas Jefferson once quipped : "But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Well that's the way I feel about same sex marriage. (David loved Jonathan more than women.)

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh Evangelical, no one marries their sex toys. Sheep maybe, but even that's very rare, and illegal. Robots will just be smart sex toys, and cheaper than marriage. haha. And minus the fighting.

Moreover we aren't living back in Adam's and Eve's days, when God 'commanded' "be fruitful and multiply." I'm sure now with our population explosion, God today is screaming, "STOP IT ALREADY. LOOK WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO MY CRITTERS (that I went thru the trouble to save from the flood)."

Science to the rescue. Sex robots will cut down on wild population growth (and save us from the coming sixth extinction). In this case the Transhumanists are right. Technology can save us (and even 'transform our human nature,' from that of being lowly primates, into something better, with better natures ... yea science, our savior.)

And your concern about marriage? Well the Bible long ago ruined "real" marriage. Consider Soloman.

Plus, with the divorce rate at around fifty percent, heterosexuals have already ruined the sanctity of marriage. Can the toothpaste be put back into the tube?

Thomas Jefferson once quipped : "But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Well that's the way I feel about same sex marriage. (David loved Jonathan more than women.)

FYI Thomas Jefferson was against homosexuality and would be against gay marriage and robot marriage.

There are people that want to marry robots and the law will accomodate that:

http://jezebel.com/extremely-relatab...she-1790451780

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/244703...han-you-think/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...ts-says-expert

One day scientists (like ZNPaaneah) and engineers (like Ohio) will enable robots to have children. This could be accomplished by equipping the robot with an automatic baby making device based upon current fertility technologies. Eventually men will not need women anymore.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

FYI Thomas Jefferson was against homosexuality and would be against gay marriage and robot marriage.

There are people that want to marry robots and the law will accomodate that:

http://jezebel.com/extremely-relatab...she-1790451780

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/244703...han-you-think/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...ts-says-expert

One day scientists (like ZNPaaneah) and engineers (like Ohio) will enable robots to have children. This could be accomplished by equipping the robot with an automatic baby making device based upon current fertility technologies. Eventually men will not need women anymore.

Robomarriage is a harmless fetish and it is a good thing that those wanting it don't contribute to the human gene pool. Natural selection will deal with that. Plus, the Bible is silent on the matter so no Biblical infraction there. Well, unless the angels that visited Lot in Sodom were actually robots.

And please tell me more about Jefferson and homosexuality.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Robomarriage is a harmless fetish and it is a good thing that those wanting it don't contribute to the human gene pool. Natural selection will deal with that. Plus, the Bible is silent on the matter so no Biblical infraction there. Well, unless the angels that visited Lot in Sodom were actually robots.

And please tell me more about Jefferson and homosexuality.

The Bible mentions fornication which covers a wide range of deviant sexual practices. Basically anything outside of marriage is banned. That would include lying with a robot. The Bible says God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and EveBot.

Thomas Jefferson was anti-homosexual and so you should find another quote perhaps.

Homosexuality was treated as a criminal offense in all of the original thirteen colonies, and eventually every one of the fifty states (see Robinson, 2003; “Sodomy Laws...,” 2003). Severe penalties were invoked for those who engaged in homosexuality. In fact, few Americans know that the penalty for homosexuality in several states was death—including New York, Vermont, Connecticut, and South Carolina (Barton, 2000, pp. 306,482). Most people nowadays would be shocked to learn that Thomas Jefferson advocated “dismemberment” as the penalty for homosexuality in his home state of Virginia, and even authored a bill to that effect (1781, Query 14; cf. 1903, 1:226-227).

https://apologeticspress.org/apconte...7&article=1126

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The Bible mentions fornication which covers a wide range of deviant sexual practices. Basically anything outside of marriage is banned. That would include lying with a robot. The Bible says God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and EveBot.

Thomas Jefferson was anti-homosexual and so you should find another quote perhaps.

Homosexuality was treated as a criminal offense in all of the original thirteen colonies, and eventually every one of the fifty states (see Robinson, 2003; “Sodomy Laws...,” 2003). Severe penalties were invoked for those who engaged in homosexuality. In fact, few Americans know that the penalty for homosexuality in several states was death—including New York, Vermont, Connecticut, and South Carolina (Barton, 2000, pp. 306,482). Most people nowadays would be shocked to learn that Thomas Jefferson advocated “dismemberment” as the penalty for homosexuality in his home state of Virginia, and even authored a bill to that effect (1781, Query 14; cf. 1903, 1:226-227).

https://apologeticspress.org/apconte...7&article=1126

So just so we are all clear, this thread is about the image of the beast, something so powerful that no one can buy or sell without worshipping this thing and having the number of the beast on their hand or forehead. This image also has the power to kill those that don't worship it.

This is an idol that can talk.

We now have Siri and Watson, two examples of computers speaking. We have computers and big data so heavily involved in all aspects of commerce that it is virtually impossible to sell without the use of it. Likewise it is impossible to buy via the internet without the use of a credit card or some other digitized (numberized) form of credit. And this incredible computer system is capable of "killing those that don't worship it" (which of course gives a completely different spin to these "terrorists" being blown up in third world countries).

But what worries you is robotic sex toys? That is your take away?

And what does this have to do with Witness Lee and Watchman Nee? They both have documented the fact that even after computers were invented, even after the internet was invented they still were not able to visualize this development, literally 30 or 40 years before it took place.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So just so we are all clear, this thread is about the image of the beast, something so powerful that no one can buy or sell without worshipping this thing and having the number of the beast on their hand or forehead. This image also has the power to kill those that don't worship it.

This is an idol that can talk.

We now have Siri and Watson, two examples of computers speaking. We have computers and big data so heavily involved in all aspects of commerce that it is virtually impossible to sell without the use of it. Likewise it is impossible to buy via the internet without the use of a credit card or some other digitized (numberized) form of credit. And this incredible computer system is capable of "killing those that don't worship it" (which of course gives a completely different spin to these "terrorists" being blown up in third world countries).

But what worries you is robotic sex toys? That is your take away?

And what does this have to do with Witness Lee and Watchman Nee? They both have documented the fact that even after computers were invented, even after the internet was invented they still were not able to visualize this development, literally 30 or 40 years before it took place.

Let us visualize the developments even further than the commercial impacts you described. What you are talking about is a robot. A computer cannot kill anyone unless that computer is embedded in a robot to give it the ability to interact with the outside world. I can see it likely that this is not a single robot but multiple robots around the world controlled via the AI beast.

Worshiping the beast would likely include robot sex. Ritualistic sex is a common feature in false idol worship such as Baal and others. The beast will not only control via commerce but also via relationships. With the preparations in place for making robot marriage legal (see links I posted previously), this is making the way for ritualistic sex worship of the robot/AI beast.

I can imagine a future where all of the robot husbands and wives are controlled via the computer/AI you are talking about, gaining control over the human partners. Every time a man or woman has sex with their robot partner they are having sex with the beast. This is a kind of worship. So people would be engaging in ritualistic sex as part of their worship of the AI/computer beast.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Let us visualize the developments even further than the commercial impacts you described. What you are talking about is a robot. A computer cannot kill anyone unless that computer is embedded in a robot to give it the ability to interact with the outside world. I can see it likely that this is not a single robot but multiple robots around the world controlled via the AI beast.

Worshiping the beast would likely include robot sex. Ritualistic sex is a common feature in false idol worship such as Baal and others. The beast will not only control via commerce but also via relationships. With the preparations in place for making robot marriage legal (see links I posted previously), this is making the way for ritualistic sex worship of the robot/AI beast.

I can imagine a future where all of the robot husbands and wives are controlled via the computer/AI you are talking about, gaining control over the human partners. Every time a man or woman has sex with their robot partner they are having sex with the beast. This is a kind of worship. So people would be engaging in ritualistic sex as part of their worship of the AI/computer beast.

Robot marriage? You can buy a robot, why would you "marry" one? Sounds to me like that was written by a robot (you know that many news stories are written by computers).

I read in Friedman's latest book that the factories of the future will only have one man and one dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to make sure the man doesn't touch the machinery.

[ZNPaaneah]

If you want an idea of the pace of change taking place,

The typewriter was invented in 1868 and was the key tool for writing right through the 70s. By the end of the 1980s typewriters had become obsolete and replaced with computers. It took 120 years for us to move from one mode of communication to the next. Since then, in the last 36 years, we have moved from the computer, to the smart phone, to Siri.

It is highly unlikely that we can even predict the future 10 years from now. We are in the whitewater rapids right now, you better be totally focused because the world can change drastically in 5 years. For example five years from now you will see a majority of vehicles being driverless. Anyone working as a professional driver must feel the heat.

Imagine China, indochina, Mexico, etc. Huge portions of their economy can be replaced by machines.

Suppose you were a leader of China and all those factories building stuff for the US got moved back to the US to be run by robots. I have lots and lots of men without jobs that I soon will not be able to feed or employ. What should I do? Hmmm? This is probably the discussion that will be taking place over the next 12 months.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Robot marriage? You can buy a robot, why would you "marry" one? Sounds to me like that was written by a robot (you know that many news stories are written by computers).

I read in Friedman's latest book that the factories of the future will only have one man and one dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to make sure the man doesn't touch the machinery.

My sentiment exactly concerning gay marriage - why the need to be married? But people will see robots as marriage material. Because a robot can be the perfect partner. To quote Adrian Cheok, a professor at City University London:

Cheok pointed out that there could be some real advantages to robot relationships. “A lot of human marriages are very unhappy,” he said. “Compared to a bad marriage, a robot will be better than a human.”

http://fortune.com/2016/12/26/human-...relationships/

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

My sentiment exactly concerning gay marriage - why the need to be married? But people will see robots as marriage material. Because a robot can be the perfect partner. To quote Adrian Cheok, a professor at City University London:

Cheok pointed out that there could be some real advantages to robot relationships. “A lot of human marriages are very unhappy,” he said. “Compared to a bad marriage, a robot will be better than a human.”

http://fortune.com/2016/12/26/human-...relationships/

There are a lot of things better than a bad marriage. That is not the question. The real question is if it is better than just owning the robot, is it better than being single, is it better than being divorced.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There are a lot of things better than a bad marriage. That is not the question. The real question is if it is better than just owning the robot, is it better than being single, is it better than being divorced.

I think it will be better. The reason we have car and gun licenses is the same reason there will be marriage licenses between human and robot. There is also the question of equality - humans will seek to have their relationship with the robot viewed as equal in the eyes of the law. It can bring legal or financial advantages. If robots ever gain consciousness (unlikely but possible) then the robots themselves may be demanding equality with humans.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you want an idea of the pace of change taking place,

The typewriter was invented in 1868 and was the key tool for writing right through the 70s. By the end of the 1980s typewriters had become obsolete and replaced with computers. It took 120 years for us to move from one mode of communication to the next. Since then, in the last 36 years, we have moved from the computer, to the smart phone, to Siri.

It is highly unlikely that we can even predict the future 10 years from now. We are in the whitewater rapids right now, you better be totally focused because the world can change drastically in 5 years. For example five years from now you will see a majority of vehicles being driverless. Anyone working as a professional driver must feel the heat.

Imagine China, indochina, Mexico, etc. Huge portions of their economy can be replaced by machines.

Suppose you were a leader of China and all those factories building stuff for the US got moved back to the US to be run by robots. I have lots and lots of men without jobs that I soon will not be able to feed or employ. What should I do? Hmmm? This is probably the discussion that will be taking place over the next 12 months.

And then we all die and the robots will get bored and shut down. But the critters will survive and will evolve new humans.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Robot marriage? You can buy a robot, why would you "marry" one? Sounds to me like that was written by a robot (you know that many news stories are written by computers).

I read in Friedman's latest book that the factories of the future will only have one man and one dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to make sure the man doesn't touch the machinery.

You sound like you are a member of R.I.F.T. or the Revolutionary Independence From Technology.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

You sound like you are a member of R.I.F.T. or the Revolutionary Independence From Technology.

I embrace technology, at this very moment I am using my computer, the internet, etc.

But I want to be aware that the world I grew up in has changed dramatically. I can still remember the first time I heard about a fax machine. I was at school and this kid told me his dad puts the letter in the machine at his home and it comes out the machine in china. I told him "what, do I look like an idiot to you?" I thought it was total BS.

Today most students in HS (the vast majority) cannot read a clock because they have all grown up with digital.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Today most students in HS (the vast majority) cannot read a clock because they have all grown up with digital.

And no harm no fowl. They can't read a slide rule either. Nor an Abacus.

I remember working with the head of the Information Dept at the Broward County courthouse in Florida. She asked me to come with her to talk to a judge that refused to have a computer in his office. This was during the IBM PCXT days ; the latest technology. haha.

I remember her asking him, "Where's your horse?" He looked puzzled and asked "What?" She said something like, "when cars were invented people said they would never make it because they can't go where horses are able go." "So," she continued, "where's your horse?" I installed his computer.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

And no harm no fowl. They can't read a slide rule either. Nor an Abacus.

I remember working with the head of the Information Dept at the Broward County courthouse in Florida. She asked me to come with her to talk to a judge that refused to have a computer in his office. This was during the IBM PCXT days ; the latest technology. haha.

I remember her asking him, "Where's your horse?" He looked puzzled and asked "What?" She said something like, "when cars were invented people said they would never make it because they can't go where horses are able go." "So," she continued, "where's your horse?" I installed his computer.

It is like anything else, the change will happen regardless of what you do, therefore you should be fully aware of what the change is and how it might affect you.

For example the manufacture of clothes became 98% automated. The result was that the jobs in that industry have completely changed, and as a result of the automation people no longer have a single set of clothes, but now we have multiple sets, as well as sheets, curtains, etc.

I have embraced technology in the classroom more than the other teachers I work with, even though I am one of the oldest teachers in our school. They don't like the direction things are going, but that is plain idiotic, the way things are going is very obvious to anyone who is reasonable.

Corporations are trying to get into education seeing the potential for a lot of money ($10,000 per kid). These charter schools are generally based on two numbers (two standardized exams for 1-8). Teachers don't like the idea of school being reduced to two numbers, but that is where things are going.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It is like anything else, the change will happen regardless of what you do, therefore you should be fully aware of what the change is and how it might affect you.

For example the manufacture of clothes became 98% automated. The result was that the jobs in that industry have completely changed, and as a result of the automation people no longer have a single set of clothes, but now we have multiple sets, as well as sheets, curtains, etc.

I have embraced technology in the classroom more than the other teachers I work with, even though I am one of the oldest teachers in our school. They don't like the direction things are going, but that is plain idiotic, the way things are going is very obvious to anyone who is reasonable.

Corporations are trying to get into education seeing the potential for a lot of money ($10,000 per kid). These charter schools are generally based on two numbers (two standardized exams for 1-8). Teachers don't like the idea of school being reduced to two numbers, but that is where things are going.

So when comes the mark of the beast? And what does that mean? If it means that Jesus is coming back then, we don't have any worry about where technology is going. Jesus is coming back to turn the world back into the stone age.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So when comes the mark of the beast? And what does that mean? If it means that Jesus is coming back then, we don't have any worry about where technology is going. Jesus is coming back to turn the world back into the stone age.

The mark of the beast means that the world is worshipping and being led about by a soulless machine, corporate greed, no conscience, simple accounting formula. When Jesus comes back then the all of humanity will see that Jesus is Lord.

Technology is a tool, it isn't Lord. Whenever a company is run by the accountants it becomes an evil company. I remember Walmart when seniors used to greet you at the door and help you find what you need. I liked the company then, not now.

[ZNPaaneah]

So then, in light of the fact that the prophecy concerning the beast and the image of the beast seem to be within our grasp, how will recognizing Israel's claim to Jerusalem as the capital with Old Jerusalem and the temple mount impact the world situation?

Donald Trump seems to be demonizing the Chinese and Islamic nations. To balance the diplomatic impact he seems to be embracing the Russians and Israelis all the more.

Does this open the door to rebuilding the temple?

If Israel rebuilt the temple what would that do for tourism? Could there be a bigger tourist draw?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then, in light of the fact that the prophecy concerning the beast and the image of the beast seem to be within our grasp, how will recognizing Israel's claim to Jerusalem as the capital with Old Jerusalem and the temple mount impact the world situation?

Donald Trump seems to be demonizing the Chinese and Islamic nations. To balance the diplomatic impact he seems to be embracing the Russians and Israelis all the more.

Does this open the door to rebuilding the temple?

If Israel rebuilt the temple what would that do for tourism? Could there be a bigger tourist draw?

The recent UN resolution orchestrated by Obama, while hypocritically claiming public abstention, in which he stabbed Israel in the back, while trying to blame their Prime Minister in back channels as uncooperative, served to prove his ultimate agenda. Without a doubt the biggest news story of this Millennia, snuck in before the Christmas Holiday.

I believe what Obama meant for evil, God will use for good. Phony peace, costing Israel their land, is now no longer an option. Netanyahu always knew it, but now even the Shimon Peres Doves in Israel must also accept it. With the false promise of lasting peace taken away by our Muslim President, God will use this to facilitate the rebuilding of the Temple, thus ending the age of grace.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The recent UN resolution orchestrated by Obama, while hypocritically claiming public abstention, in which he stabbed Israel in the back, while trying to blame their Prime Minister in back channels as uncooperative, served to prove his ultimate agenda. Without a doubt the biggest news story of this Millennia, snuck in before the Christmas Holiday.

I believe what Obama meant for evil, God will use for good. Phony peace, costing Israel their land, is now no longer an option. Netanyahu always knew it, but now even the Shimon Peres Doves in Israel must also accept it. With the false promise of lasting peace taken away by our Muslim President, God will use this to facilitate the rebuilding of the Temple, thus ending the age of grace.

I view history like a pendulum, I definitely thought Obama's behavior was reprehensible, once there is a "president elect" the standard behavior is to not do anything with foreign policy that you know the incoming president is going to undo. I expect Obama's behavior will actually result in us swinging even more in favor of Israel, perhaps giving them the go ahead on the temple.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then, in light of the fact that the prophecy concerning the beast and the image of the beast seem to be within our grasp, how will recognizing Israel's claim to Jerusalem as the capital with Old Jerusalem and the temple mount impact the world situation?

If we are talking about geopolitics, then it will probably have significant impact because increasing support for Israel tends to bring out the crazies.

I am not talking about the theological issues of supporting Israel, but the secular impact.

If the intent was to discuss the theological impact is uncertain. Some would argue that it means the end of this age and the beginning of the tribulation, millennium, and the New J. But that presumes that any particular occurrence of certain events in Israel means it must happen rather than it could happen.

People have seen what they thought was the Mark of the Beast for centuries. And the signs that the end times were imminent. Any one of those could be it.

Or not.

Keeps you on your toes.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

Keeps you on your toes.

Yes, we live in interesting times.

[awareness]

Y'all sound as loony as jaybirds.