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Old 07-25-2017, 10:21 AM   #1501
ZNPaaneah
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Default Re: Politics and the Church

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Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
We cannot have Single Payer and also maintain state of the art care...
Those who cry for Single Payer never took an economics course. Single Payer demands the same lousy health care for all. Except for the well-connected, of course.
If you are referring to Medicare as "single payer" then I would reject the claim that with Medicare you can't maintain state of the art care and BTW I did take an economics course and worked on Wall street for years.

Medicare is the most efficient form of insurance costing a fraction of our current system. Improving efficiency is the underlying reason for the success of both the industrial revolution and technological revolution. It is based on very good economics theory.

Yes, there are some differences between what we do now and what we would do in a socialist system. However, consider several issues with our current model -- cures are not nearly as profitable as treatment. You might think that they would be highly motivated to cure HIV or Ebola, but you would be wrong. ED and Hair products are far more profitable. (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb...ayers-20110210) -- Drugs developed with government money are 2 1/2 times more likely than private funded research to be a high priority cure.

I would think that any reasonable person would want to develop new antibiotics yet they are not profitable either as they very quickly will be replaced by new antibiotics. (http://phenomena.nationalgeographic....s-declaration/)

Generally speaking, in a capitalist model the consumer determines what the manufacturers make. But that is not true of the Pharmacies.

Merck's most profitable drugs --

1. Lipitor -- not a cure, something you take forever.

2. Lyrica -- again, not a cure, something you take forever.

3. Celebrex -- ditto

4. Viagra -- ditto

5. Effexor -- ditto

etc., etc.,

Since sequencing the human genome we have the technology and potential to develop amazing cures, but that is not nearly as profitable as therapies you must pay for continuously forever.
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:19 AM   #1502
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Default Re: Politics and the Church

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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
If you are referring to Medicare as "single payer" then I would reject the claim that with Medicare you can't maintain state of the art care and BTW I did take an economics course and worked on Wall street for years.

Medicare is the most efficient form of insurance costing a fraction of our current system. Improving efficiency is the underlying reason for the success of both the industrial revolution and technological revolution. It is based on very good economics theory.

Yes, there are some differences between what we do now and what we would do in a socialist system. However, consider several issues with our current model -- cures are not nearly as profitable as treatment. You might think that they would be highly motivated to cure HIV or Ebola, but you would be wrong. ED and Hair products are far more profitable. (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb...ayers-20110210) -- Drugs developed with government money are 2 1/2 times more likely than private funded research to be a high priority cure.

I would think that any reasonable person would want to develop new antibiotics yet they are not profitable either as they very quickly will be replaced by new antibiotics. (http://phenomena.nationalgeographic....s-declaration/)

Generally speaking, in a capitalist model the consumer determines what the manufacturers make. But that is not true of the Pharmacies.

Merck's most profitable drugs --

1. Lipitor -- not a cure, something you take forever.

2. Lyrica -- again, not a cure, something you take forever.

3. Celebrex -- ditto

4. Viagra -- ditto

5. Effexor -- ditto

etc., etc.,

Since sequencing the human genome we have the technology and potential to develop amazing cures, but that is not nearly as profitable as therapies you must pay for continuously forever.
You'd be an ignoramus if you thought the companies involved in healthcare cared more about human health than for profits.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:05 PM   #1503
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You'd be an ignoramus if you thought the companies involved in healthcare cared more about human health than for profits.
I have long doubted that the entire medical profession really cared for human health. Sick people keep them rich.
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:18 PM   #1504
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You'd be an ignoramus if you thought the companies involved in healthcare cared more about human health than for profits.
But the insurance industry does have a profit motive to keep us healthy. They have done a great job in making cars safer. I believe we could make guns safer too if we just required insurance like we do with cars.

However, they have not had the same impact with healthcare because there are many different companies. They cannot afford to invest in cures since every company would profit equally. However, if everyone were covered by Medicare, a govt run system, it would be a very nice fit with govt funded research. The two would go together.
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Old 07-25-2017, 07:31 PM   #1505
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
But the insurance industry does have a profit motive to keep us healthy. They have done a great job in making cars safer. I believe we could make guns safer too if we just required insurance like we do with cars.

However, they have not had the same impact with healthcare because there are many different companies. They cannot afford to invest in cures since every company would profit equally. However, if everyone were covered by Medicare, a govt run system, it would be a very nice fit with govt funded research. The two would go together.
So let the insurance companies continue selling car insurance, home insurance, etc, insurance on all kinds of things, but get them out of the healthcare business.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:49 PM   #1506
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So let the insurance companies continue selling car insurance, home insurance, etc, insurance on all kinds of things, but get them out of the healthcare business.
Let's return to economic theory, as Ohio suggested. Some products are elastic, others are inelastic. Viagra is elastic, a cure for ebola is inelastic. Capitalism works great for products which are elastic, but is terrible for products that are inelastic.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:56 AM   #1507
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Default Re: You're fired! (Draining the swamp?)

Reince Priebus

James Comey

Corey Lewandowski

Chris Christie

Paul Manafort

Michael Flynn

Sam Nunberg

Sean Spicer

"This administration is running like a fine-tuned machine," Trump
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:51 AM   #1508
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Reince Priebus

James Comey

Corey Lewandowski

Chris Christie

Paul Manafort

Michael Flynn

Sam Nunberg

Sean Spicer

"This administration is running like a fine-tuned machine," Trump
And they are all fighting over who can love Trump the most.
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:19 PM   #1509
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And they are all fighting over who can love Trump the most.
IMHO the exit has just begun. I expect many lower level staff members to follow Priebus out the door.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:15 PM   #1510
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IMHO the exit has just begun. I expect many lower level staff members to follow Priebus out the door.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:35 AM   #1511
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God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong Un,’ evangelical adviser says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.59e8cde4fa3a
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:05 PM   #1512
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God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong Un,’ evangelical adviser says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.59e8cde4fa3a
Awareness, who was more "Christ-like" before WWII Chamberlain or Churchill?
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:31 PM   #1513
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Awareness, who was more "Christ-like" before WWII Chamberlain or Churchill?
Were they trying to be Christ-like? Is Trump being Christ-like? Is Jeffress? And how would Jeffress know if God gave Trump authority? Does he have God's cell phone number? Jeffress is a clown, and shouldn't be allowed to speak for evangelicals. He just trying to be in the spotlight. And did it. It doesn't matter if he looks like an idiot, it increases his stock with his megachurch followers. Christian's like Jeffress give Christ a bad name, and make Christianity unattractive.
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:23 PM   #1514
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Awareness, who was more "Christ-like" before WWII Chamberlain or Churchill?
Isn't the question mostly irrelevant? I can make an argument for either based on different criteria. When it comes to being a "prince of peace," that would have to go to Chamberlain, even though he was obviously too foolish to really do his part well.

It seems that in the sense of "final analysis" in which we reach the end, and rewards and punishment is meted out, then it would have to be Churchill. He got out his war horses and set to fight from the beginning.

But we are not at the end, so neither is much of a representation of Christ. (Not saying that in this world we should not be willing to fight to survive. But does doing it make you like Christ?)

And therefore I cannot fathom the value of thinking of Christlikeness in terms of Chamberlain and Churchill — leaders juxtaposed to war with one of the more insane leaders of the 20th century (maybe of all time).
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:55 PM   #1515
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Well North Korea has really got us scared now, they are threatening to attack Guam.

This is like two little Eric Cartman's threatening to fight each other trying to puff up their chests more and more.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:15 PM   #1516
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God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong Un,’ evangelical adviser says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.59e8cde4fa3a

He said that many pacifist Christians will cite Romans 12, which says, “Do not repay evil for evil,” but Jeffress says that the passage is referring to Christians, not to the government.


North Korea views America as evil for dropping more bombs and napalm on it than in whole of WW2. So according to Jeffress NK would be justified for nuking Guam.

All Trump has to do is apologize for America's past wrongs I think, as American Presidents have done before.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:25 AM   #1517
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He said that many pacifist Christians will cite Romans 12, which says, “Do not repay evil for evil,” but Jeffress says that the passage is referring to Christians, not to the government.


North Korea views America as evil for dropping more bombs and napalm on it than in whole of WW2. So according to Jeffress NK would be justified for nuking Guam.

All Trump has to do is apologize for America's past wrongs I think, as American Presidents have done before.
Amen Evan ... amen.
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Old 08-14-2017, 04:06 PM   #1518
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He said that many pacifist Christians will cite Romans 12, which says, “Do not repay evil for evil,” but Jeffress says that the passage is referring to Christians, not to the government.


North Korea views America as evil for dropping more bombs and napalm on it than in whole of WW2. So according to Jeffress NK would be justified for nuking Guam.

All Trump has to do is apologize for America's past wrongs I think, as American Presidents have done before.
Ignoring what the right thing to do would be for a second, how does Trump vilify Obama for his apology and then go and do the same thing?

50% of Americans will not vote for Trump, this apology wouldn't mollify them, instead they would jump on the hypocrisy. As for the 50% that might vote for him they would be doubly offended by the apology.

In short political suicide.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:32 AM   #1519
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Donald Trump has been taking a lot of heat for his belated condemnation of White supremacists and Neo Nazis. But has anyone considered that Trump is new at this and might not be good at condemning others?

Now if Hillary Clinton had been driving the car that would have been a different story.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:37 AM   #1520
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Referring to the clashes in Charlottesville, VA last weekend. Once again MSM has distorted the story. From what I understand, far right groups had permits to protest, and while I disagree with their message, I thought the 1st Amendment provided them the right to speak. Antifa anarchists on the left then showed up with force to prevent this. So who really is responsible for the violence?

Since when is it right in America to use violence to silence others?

The Media then used the event to attack Trump. So predictable.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:41 AM   #1521
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Donald Trump has been taking a lot of heat for his belated condemnation of White supremacists and Neo Nazis. But has anyone considered that Trump is new at this and might not be good at condemning others?

Now if Hillary Clinton had been driving the car that would have been a different story.

Two extreme sides were fighting. Trump condemned all violence.

What's the difference between white supremacy and white hate? Both are wrong.

But the media has long condoned anarchy on the left while rightly condemning white supremacy. Shouldn't the media fairly condemn all violence which threatens our 1st Amendment freedoms?
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:21 AM   #1522
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Two extreme sides were fighting. Trump condemned all violence.

What's the difference between white supremacy and white hate? Both are wrong.

But the media has long condoned anarchy on the left while rightly condemning white supremacy. Shouldn't the media fairly condemn all violence which threatens our 1st Amendment freedoms?
Right. How dare that young woman get in the way of your bro's car. That was just her "white hate."
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:55 AM   #1523
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Referring to the clashes in Charlottesville, VA last weekend. Once again MSM has distorted the story. From what I understand, far right groups had permits to protest, and while I disagree with their message, I thought the 1st Amendment provided them the right to speak. Antifa anarchists on the left then showed up with force to prevent this. So who really is responsible for the violence?

Since when is it right in America to use violence to silence others?

The Media then used the event to attack Trump. So predictable.
I have not been able to get a full story on what prompted the attack with the car. It seemed that the permits for the rally were cancelled but I can't verify that regardless of how much you watch of this.

I agree that the "freedom of speech" provision was put in so that we don't get a pressure cooker that explodes. I also agree that it is very hypocritical of the anti rally protesters who demanded freedom of speech to get their messages across to then try and deny others the same right. I also agree that the removal of a landmark is viewed as a sin in the OT. I feel it is a perverse political correctness that demands the removal of a Robert E Lee statue.

That said there is no justification for what this man did. Why didn't those involved in this rally come out and condemn him vehemently making it clear they did not condone or have anything to do with what he did?
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:44 AM   #1524
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I have not been able to get a full story on what prompted the attack with the car. It seemed that the permits for the rally were cancelled but I can't verify that regardless of how much you watch of this.
I did hear that. Apparently the authorities canceled the protests, and revoked their permits, when they realized that they could not maintain law and order.

Quote:
I agree that the "freedom of speech" provision was put in so that we don't get a pressure cooker that explodes. I also agree that it is very hypocritical of the anti rally protesters who demanded freedom of speech to get their messages across to then try and deny others the same right. I also agree that the removal of a landmark is viewed as a sin in the OT. I feel it is a perverse political correctness that demands the removal of a Robert E Lee statue.
As long as the anarchists are so-called politically correct, their violence has been allowed to go on unchecked. That is scary indeed. I watched them tear down another statue on the news. The media is now applauding vandalism when it suits their agenda, hence we are entering a time of a one-sided justice system.

Quote:
That said there is no justification for what this man did.
Totally agree.
Quote:
Why didn't those involved in this rally come out and condemn him vehemently making it clear they did not condone or have anything to do with what he did?
People were fighting in the streets. Numerous people were hurt. Leaders from both sides are silent. The event is now being portrayed as domestic terrorism, with a car crashing into a crowd of people. It seemed more like a war zone, apart from the car driven into the crowd.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:34 AM   #1525
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Right. How dare that young woman get in the way of your bro's car. That was just her "white hate."
zeek, I thought you were a compassionate shrink who cared for the mentally ill...

Quote:
... reports emerged Monday that James Alex Fields, Jr., the 20-year-old who plowed his car into a left-wing counter-demonstration in Charlottesville, killing one and injuring several others, had been diagnosed with schizophrenia as a boy and had been given antipsychotic drugs.
The media has used this event to openly condemn Trump, Republicans, conservatives, etc. but now we learn that this guy was mentally ill. If you have never loved anyone with schizophrenic psychosis, you have no idea what they live with. This is neither domestic terrorism nor white hate, this is one sick guy who should never be driving in the first place.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:36 AM   #1526
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This is neither domestic terrorism nor white hate, this is one sick guy who should never be driving in the first place.
Yeah, he should have used his 2nd amendment rights, like those on the right, and used a gun ... not a car. Cuz history tells us that crazies can buy guns in America ... thanks to Republicans and conservatives.

And it's Trump's friendly association with these right extremists, and support of them, that condemns Trump ... not the fake news.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:36 AM   #1527
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zeek, I thought you were a compassionate shrink who cared for the mentally ill...The media has used this event to openly condemn Trump, Republicans, conservatives, etc. but now we learn that this guy was mentally ill. If you have never loved anyone with schizophrenic psychosis, you have no idea what they live with. This is neither domestic terrorism nor white hate, this is one sick guy who should never be driving in the first place.
Thank you for sharing your psychiatric opinion, Dr. Ohio. Kinda rushing to judgment aren't you? Does that help dispel your cognitive dissonance?

Clearly Dr. Ohio's sympathies lie with the killer not the 32 year old woman, Heather Heyer of Charlottesville that he wantonly killed. She must have been one of those liberal trouble-makers. And she had the audacity of being female! The hussie got what she deserved for being out on the street, right Dr. Ohio?
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:48 AM   #1528
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Yeah, he should have used his 2nd amendment rights, like those on the right, and used a gun ... not a car. Cuz history tells us that crazies can buy guns in America ... thanks to Republicans and conservatives.

And it's Trump's friendly association with these right extremists, and support of them, that condemns Trump ... not the fake news.
Absolutely, it's all Trump's fault. (Before he came along, however, it was all Bush's fault.)

Since you care nothing for mental health problems, did you see this?
Quote:
The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) reports that Jason Kessler, the organizer of last Saturday’s white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, is rumored to be a former Occupy Wall Street activist and supporter of Barack Obama.
Some anarchists just can't tell their left from their right.

But who cares, it's all Trump's fault, because our Moderator says so!
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:11 PM   #1529
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It's always good for a chuckle when the Birther-In-Chief calls someone a "grandstander".
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:29 PM   #1530
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[B]
But who cares, it's all Trump's fault, because our Moderator says so!
C'mon bro Ohio. You're constructing a straw man me. I don't even need to go into it. It's clear for all to see.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:04 PM   #1531
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Yeah, he should have used his 2nd amendment rights, like those on the right, and used a gun ... not a car. Cuz history tells us that crazies can buy guns in America ... thanks to Republicans and conservatives.

And it's Trump's friendly association with these right extremists, and support of them, that condemns Trump ... not the fake news.
Truly amazing how you can blame Trump and guns for last weekend's violence.

But it's all so very clear for all to see.

Look here folks -- see the straw man!
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:07 PM   #1532
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Truly amazing how you can blame Trump and guns for last weekend's violence.

But it's all so very clear for all to see.

Look here folks -- see the straw man!
Straw men on "many sides...many sides."
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:48 PM   #1533
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"Trump Warns Removing Confederate Statues Could Be Slippery Slope To Eliminating Racism Entirely!"
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:49 PM   #1534
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This is neither domestic terrorism nor white hate, this is one sick guy who should never be driving in the first place.
But he's allowed to own a gun, right?
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:56 PM   #1535
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But he's allowed to own a gun, right?
No, not at all!

He was diagnosed a psychotic schizophrenic, he cannot own a gun. We are a nation of laws which protect our citizens!

Neither should he be allowed to drive.
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Old 08-18-2017, 06:54 AM   #1536
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No, not at all!

He was diagnosed a psychotic schizophrenic, he cannot own a gun. We are a nation of laws which protect our citizens!

Neither should he be allowed to drive.
Our brother Ohio is acting like the guy he's been supporting up to now : TRUMP.

“In some ways, Trump would rather have people calling him racist than say he backed down the minute he was wrong,” one adviser to the White House said on Wednesday about Charlottesville. “This may turn into the biggest mess of his presidency because he is stubborn and doesn't realize how bad this is getting.”

From Politico.

‘He is stubborn and doesn't realize how bad this is getting’
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...r-chaos-241721
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Old 08-18-2017, 11:45 AM   #1537
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Now Bannon. Who will be next?
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:57 AM   #1538
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Now Bannon. Who will be next?
Trump's presidency as we know it is 'OVER' says Steve Bannon
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ught-over.html
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:58 PM   #1539
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Trump's presidency as we know it is 'OVER' says Steve Bannon
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ught-over.html
What does that mean? What on Earth does "Trump's presidency as we have never known it" mean? Does Bannon have classified information about a nuclear war with NK? Terror threats from ISIS?
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:42 PM   #1540
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What does that mean? What on Earth does "Trump's presidency as we have never known it" mean? Does Bannon have classified information about a nuclear war with NK? Terror threats from ISIS?
It means that Bannon saw himself as Trump's puppet-master. Now that he is no longer in Trump's administration, it is effectively over as far as he is concerned.
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Old 08-20-2017, 05:14 AM   #1541
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It means that Bannon saw himself as Trump's puppet-master. Now that he is no longer in Trump's administration, it is effectively over as far as he is concerned.
But without the puppet master what will happen? The first 6 months have been traumatic enough, is it going to get worse? Is Bannon taking credit for all the previous chaos?
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Old 08-20-2017, 04:05 PM   #1542
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When your alumni are turning their depolmats back in you have you make up something to protect your reputation and income :

"Trump had 'inside information' on the Charlottesville crowd Jerry Falwell Jr suggests defending the president for saying there were 'very fine people on both sides'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ion-crowd.html
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Old 08-20-2017, 05:58 PM   #1543
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When your alumni are turning their depolmats back in you have you make up something to protect your reputation and income :

"Trump had 'inside information' on the Charlottesville crowd Jerry Falwell Jr suggests defending the president for saying there were 'very fine people on both sides'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ion-crowd.html
Just to clarify, a "depolmat" is a pole cat who has been killed, skinned and then the skin is used as a mat.

An unorthodox but effective way to drain the swamp of pole cats.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:13 PM   #1544
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Something I've considering is the similarities between Antifa and LSM leadership.
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:15 PM   #1545
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Something I've considering is the similarities between Antifa and LSM leadership.
Oh do tell us what those are!
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:19 PM   #1546
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Something I've considering is the similarities between Antifa and LSM leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek
Oh do tell us what those are!
I'm sitting on the edge of my seat ...
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Old 08-22-2017, 04:53 AM   #1547
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Something I've considering is the similarities between Antifa and LSM leadership.
Finally, an intelligent discussion.

Andrew Young (civil rights leader) gave a very insightful interview on this subject. These "white supremacists" (0.003% of US population) represent dirt poor white's from the rural South. This isn't a white/black issue, its a poverty issue.

As the world moves from a national economy to a world economy there will be winners and losers, these are the losers (who are white).

Because we have policies that are racist, like affirmative action, instead of need based, it stands to reason that there will be poor whites who feel dissed.

I was very angry in this last election that we had two highly electable people (John Kasich and Bernie Sanders) and yet each party didn't nominate them, they basically gave the voters the middle finger and gave us a hobson choice.

So I took no horse at all and decided I would learn from the collective wisdom of millions of people how to respond to this dilemma.

What the voters did was to give the middle finger back to the authorities. I don't see Trump as a terrible inept president, I see him as the voters in the US giving Washington elites the middle finger.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:15 AM   #1548
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Finally, an intelligent discussion.

Andrew Young (civil rights leader) gave a very insightful interview on this subject. These "white supremacists" (0.003% of US population) represent dirt poor white's from the rural South. This isn't a white/black issue, its a poverty issue. As the world moves from a national economy to a world economy there will be winners and losers, these are the losers (who are white).
This quote provides insufficient information with which to evaluate its claims. In what context [when? where? source? ] did Young make alleged statement?



Quote:
Because we have policies that are racist, like affirmative action, instead of need based, it stands to reason that there will be poor whites who feel dissed.
Affirmative action is problematic. But, what's the alternative? Acceptance of the racial disparity of the status quo? Regressing to the Jim Crow era when Trump thinks things were "great?"

Quote:
I was very angry in this last election that we had two highly electable people (John Kasich and Bernie Sanders) and yet each party didn't nominate them, they basically gave the voters the middle finger and gave us a hobson choice. So I took no horse at all and decided I would learn from the collective wisdom of millions of people how to respond to this dilemma.
How's that working for you?

Quote:
What the voters did was to give the middle finger back to the authorities. I don't see Trump as a terrible inept president, I see him as the voters in the US giving Washington elites the middle finger.
No, Trump's inept too.
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Old 08-22-2017, 12:41 PM   #1549
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Affirmative action is problematic. But, what's the alternative? Acceptance of the racial disparity of the status quo? Regressing to the Jim Crow era when Trump thinks things were "great?"
Since we all realize that affirmative action is problematic, perhaps the best choice in a bad situation we should be cognizant of the fact that there will be some poor whites that feel unfairly treated.

No, I don't think regressing to Jim Crow era is a better alternative, what I do think would have been a lot better would have been to not go to Iraq and spend 6 trillion dollars on a bogus war fighting make believe terrorists until we have created real terrorists who really do want to kill us. This is not hindsight BS, I said this at the time of 911 and virtually got fired for it.

If the US had put 5 of those 6 trillion dollars into building up the renewable energy market in the US we would be a leader in the field. To power the entire US would cost about $10 trillion. If the US used the $5 trillion as a 50% incentive for individuals and businesses to install solar we could have completely converted to solar. This would have a positive impact on health, on climate change, on our role as a global leader and on peace. We could have still spent $1 trillion to kill Osama Bin Laden to satisfy all those hokey's that still think he masterminded 911.

But unlike the $6 trillion we sunk in Afghanistan and Iraq we would not have created the monster ISIS, we would not have lost our role as a world leader, and the money we invested would pay dividends -- a thriving local economy in research, development and manufacture of solar. All those people working in these good jobs would pay tax. It would be an investment in the future of the US paying a good dividend and who knows, maybe we would have put some of these factories in the towns of these hillbilly hicks with the confederate flags and they would not have to be so hateful today.
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Old 08-22-2017, 12:45 PM   #1550
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This quote provides insufficient information with which to evaluate its claims. In what context [when? where? source? ] did Young make alleged statement?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQm5HCzR2s

6 minutes

In a nutshell he is reiterating what Ohio has been telling you for six months. The amount of poor people left behind and ignored by the elites in Washington has grown to the point that you can actually hear their voices in national elections. If you ignore it now, the only other option is revolt.
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Old 08-23-2017, 04:25 AM   #1551
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQm5HCzR2s

6 minutes

In a nutshell he is reiterating what Ohio has been telling you for six months. The amount of poor people left behind and ignored by the elites in Washington has grown to the point that you can actually hear their voices in national elections. If you ignore it now, the only other option is revolt.
Noah Chomsky is also weighing in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/noam-chom...110600596.html
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Old 08-23-2017, 07:30 AM   #1552
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I don't believe the alt-right, et al, are made up of disenfranchised poor white people. Richard Spencer certainly isn't. And assault rifles and military garb isn't cheap.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:44 AM   #1553
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Since we all realize that affirmative action is problematic, perhaps the best choice in a bad situation we should be cognizant of the fact that there will be some poor whites that feel unfairly treated.

No, I don't think regressing to Jim Crow era is a better alternative, what I do think would have been a lot better would have been to not go to Iraq and spend 6 trillion dollars on a bogus war fighting make believe terrorists until we have created real terrorists who really do want to kill us. This is not hindsight BS, I said this at the time of 911 and virtually got fired for it.

If the US had put 5 of those 6 trillion dollars into building up the renewable energy market in the US we would be a leader in the field. To power the entire US would cost about $10 trillion. If the US used the $5 trillion as a 50% incentive for individuals and businesses to install solar we could have completely converted to solar. This would have a positive impact on health, on climate change, on our role as a global leader and on peace. We could have still spent $1 trillion to kill Osama Bin Laden to satisfy all those hokey's that still think he masterminded 911.

But unlike the $6 trillion we sunk in Afghanistan and Iraq we would not have created the monster ISIS, we would not have lost our role as a world leader, and the money we invested would pay dividends -- a thriving local economy in research, development and manufacture of solar. All those people working in these good jobs would pay tax. It would be an investment in the future of the US paying a good dividend and who knows, maybe we would have put some of these factories in the towns of these hillbilly hicks with the confederate flags and they would not have to be so hateful today.
Which is a long way of saying that your alternative to affirmative action is to do nothing.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:48 AM   #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQm5HCzR2s

6 minutes

In a nutshell he is reiterating what Ohio has been telling you for six months. The amount of poor people left behind and ignored by the elites in Washington has grown to the point that you can actually hear their voices in national elections. If you ignore it now, the only other option is revolt.
Who is he referring to as "KKK types"? How does he know they are "the poorest of the poor?" If poverty justifies terrorism, I guess we should sympathize with the poor ISIS terrorists instead of killing them. Right?
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:51 AM   #1555
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Right, nonviolent resistance is more than twice as effective as the violent kind. https://www.amazon.com/Why-Civil-Res...nt+Conflict%22
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:12 AM   #1556
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Instead of working at unifying the country like a president should, Trump continued to fan the flames of racism at his rally yesterday. He misquoted himself, leaving out the words that outraged so many.

Trump pretended his press conference defending the "fine" white supremacists at Charlottesville never happened and blamed the media for the furor he created. He's much stronger against the media than against KKK and Nazi terrorists.

The POTUS hinted that he might pardon Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio who was found in criminal contempt for racial profiling. He threatened to shut down the government if his border wall isn't built.

Trump lamented the treatment of CNN contributor Jeffrey Lord who was fired for tweeting out the Nazi phrase, “Sieg Heil". It's clear that his sympathies are with the racists because he is one. He's encouraging them! So, no doubt, we will see their numbers and violence grow.
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:22 PM   #1557
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Right, nonviolent resistance is more than twice as effective as the violent kind. https://www.amazon.com/Why-Civil-Res...nt+Conflict%22
violent protests are not just less effective they are counter productive.
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:27 PM   #1558
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Who is he referring to as "KKK types"? How does he know they are "the poorest of the poor?" If poverty justifies terrorism, I guess we should sympathize with the poor ISIS terrorists instead of killing them. Right?
ISIS was created by the US going into Iraq, which had nothing to do with 911, obliterating the country and then in the midst of the chaos firing all of the former military who worked with and were trained by Iraq and then having our military leave the country. The man who made the decision to fire all of the Iraqi trained military was a novice to the region and knew nothing of nation building. The decision to pull our military out was a political decision made by Obama because of a campaign promise.

As a result the country was in chaos, electricity, water, and garbage were infrequent and who would you blame if you lived there? Of course the US was the culprit.

Killing ISIS is not the solution anymore than killing Saddam was, or killing Osama was, etc. We have been killing these terrorists non stop for 16 years, where has it gotten us?
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:47 PM   #1559
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Instead of working at unifying the country like a president should, Trump continued to fan the flames of racism at his rally yesterday. He misquoted himself, leaving out the words that outraged so many.

Trump pretended his press conference defending the "fine" white supremacists at Charlottesville never happened and blamed the media for the furor he created. He's much stronger against the media than against KKK and Nazi terrorists.

The POTUS hinted that he might pardon Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio who was found in criminal contempt for racial profiling. He threatened to shut down the government if his border wall isn't built.

Trump lamented the treatment of CNN contributor Jeffrey Lord who was fired for tweeting out the Nazi phrase, “Sieg Heil". It's clear that his sympathies are with the racists because he is one. He's encouraging them! So, no doubt, we will see their numbers and violence grow.
Have you ever considered that if a baby human were raised by Orangutans and then was later brought back to human civilization he could be a translator and reveal all of the orangutan secrets to us? All he would need would be a twitter account. (Rick Stromoski)
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:54 PM   #1560
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ISIS was created by the US going into Iraq, which had nothing to do with 911, obliterating the country and then in the midst of the chaos firing all of the former military who worked with and were trained by Iraq and then having our military leave the country. The man who made the decision to fire all of the Iraqi trained military was a novice to the region and knew nothing of nation building. The decision to pull our military out was a political decision made by Obama because of a campaign promise.

As a result the country was in chaos, electricity, water, and garbage were infrequent and who would you blame if you lived there? Of course the US was the culprit.

Killing ISIS is not the solution anymore than killing Saddam was, or killing Osama was, etc. We have been killing these terrorists non stop for 16 years, where has it gotten us?
You missed the point we were discussing and went off on a tangent.
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Old 08-23-2017, 03:44 PM   #1561
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You missed the point we were discussing and went off on a tangent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b090964299595b

The people who join these groups tend to be dim witted, though it is expressed in kinder terms in the article, they are suicidal and/or mentally unstable, usually associated with childhood abuse and/or neglect. Add to this they fear losing their place in society.

Now I summed this all up to mean poor. I suppose that is an unfair leap lacking in the subtle nuance.

The pseudo scientific junk and quasi religious junk is merely window dressing.

Now can you see how our intervention in Iraq could result in all of the dim witted in that country becoming radicalized?
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Old 08-23-2017, 07:43 PM   #1562
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Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Instead of working at unifying the country like a president should, Trump continued to fan the flames of racism at his rally yesterday. He misquoted himself, leaving out the words that outraged so many.

Trump pretended his press conference defending the "fine" white supremacists at Charlottesville never happened and blamed the media for the furor he created. He's much stronger against the media than against KKK and Nazi terrorists.

The POTUS hinted that he might pardon Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio who was found in criminal contempt for racial profiling. He threatened to shut down the government if his border wall isn't built.

Trump lamented the treatment of CNN contributor Jeffrey Lord who was fired for tweeting out the Nazi phrase, “Sieg Heil". It's clear that his sympathies are with the racists because he is one. He's encouraging them! So, no doubt, we will see their numbers and violence grow.
German magazine shows President Trump doing a Nazi salute while draped in an American flag after his response to Charlottesville

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Old 08-24-2017, 06:21 PM   #1563
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Finally, an intelligent discussion.

Andrew Young (civil rights leader) gave a very insightful interview on this subject. These "white supremacists" (0.003% of US population) represent dirt poor white's from the rural South. This isn't a white/black issue, its a poverty issue.

As the world moves from a national economy to a world economy there will be winners and losers, these are the losers (who are white).

Because we have policies that are racist, like affirmative action, instead of need based, it stands to reason that there will be poor whites who feel dissed.

I was very angry in this last election that we had two highly electable people (John Kasich and Bernie Sanders) and yet each party didn't nominate them, they basically gave the voters the middle finger and gave us a hobson choice.

So I took no horse at all and decided I would learn from the collective wisdom of millions of people how to respond to this dilemma.

What the voters did was to give the middle finger back to the authorities. I don't see Trump as a terrible inept president, I see him as the voters in the US giving Washington elites the middle finger.
I think it's a mistake to not consider Trump as one of the Washington elites. Granted, he is not a political elite, but he is an elite, a business elite. What evil things the political elite do with politics, Trump does with money. Trump is a Washington elite, in so many ways, even more than those so-called "Washington elites".
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:33 PM   #1564
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Oh do tell us what those are!
Zeek, I'm taking the time to get around to it. Specifically calling out items from the antifa manual I have seen as LSM leadership traits.
1. Ever idea critical of our movement or our way of thinking must be condemned
2. When all else fails, compare someone to Hitler.
3. Belittle them......
4. It's important to gain control of the media through any means necessary.
5. If you are seeking positions of power in the media, be sure to obfuscate and hide your true intentions on the various social media platform. Better to remain a mystery and wield massive power than blatantly shouting your viewpoints from the hilltops.
6. Use social media as a baton to slap down anyone who holds fascist viewpoints. Call them racist, homophobic, misogynistic. Create an echo chamber around you.
7. Control the flow of information, you control how information is received.
8. Threaten those who dare to speak up against our agenda
9. Either you are for us or against us.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:58 PM   #1565
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German magazine shows President Trump doing a Nazi salute while draped in an American flag after his response to Charlottesville

That's no way to treat someone with a mental health issue.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:39 PM   #1566
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Zeek, I'm taking the time to get around to it. Specifically calling out items from the antifa manual I have seen as LSM leadership traits.
1. Ever idea critical of our movement or our way of thinking must be condemned
2. When all else fails, compare someone to Hitler.
3. Belittle them......
4. It's important to gain control of the media through any means necessary.
5. If you are seeking positions of power in the media, be sure to obfuscate and hide your true intentions on the various social media platform. Better to remain a mystery and wield massive power than blatantly shouting your viewpoints from the hilltops.
6. Use social media as a baton to slap down anyone who holds fascist viewpoints. Call them racist, homophobic, misogynistic. Create an echo chamber around you.
7. Control the flow of information, you control how information is received.
8. Threaten those who dare to speak up against our agenda
9. Either you are for us or against us.
Are you referring to "Antifa: The Antifascist Handbook" by Mark Bray? I haven't read it. Does the book literally make those points or is that your interpretation?
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:23 AM   #1567
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Zeek, I'm taking the time to get around to it. Specifically calling out items from the antifa manual I have seen as LSM leadership traits.
1. Ever idea critical of our movement or our way of thinking must be condemned
2. When all else fails, compare someone to Hitler.
3. Belittle them......
4. It's important to gain control of the media through any means necessary.
5. If you are seeking positions of power in the media, be sure to obfuscate and hide your true intentions on the various social media platform. Better to remain a mystery and wield massive power than blatantly shouting your viewpoints from the hilltops.
6. Use social media as a baton to slap down anyone who holds fascist viewpoints. Call them racist, homophobic, misogynistic. Create an echo chamber around you.
7. Control the flow of information, you control how information is received.
8. Threaten those who dare to speak up against our agenda
9. Either you are for us or against us.
It's obvious that antifa has gone too far. Hating hate is still hate.

But I support their opposition to white supremacy, the KKK, and the neo-Nazis.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:03 PM   #1568
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This discussion is not as simple as "whites don't hate blacks" or "do." But it reminds me of a song by a satirical singer (also MIT professor for many years) back in the 60s. It starts with a monologue and is followed by the song's lyrics. I'm sure that it will offend someone, but the only ones he intended to offend were the bigots.

One week of every year is designated National Brotherhood Week. This is just one of many such weeks honoring various worthy causes. One of my favorites is National Make-fun-of-the-handicapped Week which Frank Fontaine and Jerry Lewis are in charge of as you know. During National Brotherhood Week various special events are arranged to drive home the message of brotherhood. This year, for example, on the first day of the week, Malcolm X was killed . . . which gives you an idea of how effective the whole thing is.

I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another and I know there are people in the world that do not love their fellow human beings and I hate people like that!

Here's a song about National Brotherhood Week.

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,
And the black folks hate the white folks.
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek.
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise,
As long as you don't let 'em in your school.

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic.
Step up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand.
You can tolerate him if you try.

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Moslems,
And everybody hates the Jews.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week.
Be nice to people who
Are inferior to you.
It's only for a week, so have no fear.
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:26 PM   #1569
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Beware of the oligarchs Western as well as Eastern who despise democracy and have made a dirty word of liberalism.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:54 PM   #1570
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Beware of the oligarchs Western as well as Eastern who despise democracy and have made a dirty word of liberalism.
I've also noticed that antifa is being turned into a dirty word. And those doing it don't seem to be calling the KKK, neo-Nazies, white supremacists, et al, a dirty word. Is it because they call themselves Unite the Right and alt-right, and it's the right turning antifa into a dirty word?
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:23 PM   #1571
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An ad hominem argument is a fallacy unless it can be shown that the character of the proposer is relevant to the truth of his/her proposition. Even a pathological liar may correctly observe that the sky is blue. So, it doesn't necessarily follow that if Nee transgressed then his propositions regarding politics are false. If you wish to refute Nee's points, you can't just attack Nee. You actually have to show how they are false.
The recent hurricanes have underscored the fundamental weakness in the political process.

During Hurricane Harvey it was depicted as "unprecedented" to have a storm drop that much rain. Harvey dropped 50 inches, the previous record in the continental US was 49 inches. So although it was record setting it was hardly "unprecedented". Add to this the fact that scientists have been warning that bigger storms are a consequence of climate change and I would say that this was "precedented", they were warned, and they should have expected that with the Gulf 2 degrees warmer than usual we would get this.

So then, why were so many homes caught in the flood zone? You can be sure the insurance companies weren't caught off guard, that is why 80-85% of those flooded in Harvey and Irma didn't have flood insurance.

Here is the problem for politicians -- if they tell people they can't build in certain areas they take them to court and argue they have freedoms, rights, etc. Insurance companies don't care because they make the flood insurance prohibitively expensive so that no one has it. The city absolves itself by creating maps of flood zones and then telling people "buyer beware" knowing full well that the majority of Americans have no idea how to "beware". Primarily the poor suffer as the rich are not going to go without flood insurance and if it is too expensive they'll get a property elsewhere.

So then the politicians take the money from the real estate developers for their campaign, absolve themselves by claiming people have the liberty to do as they please. Developers don't care. The risk of the storms hitting in any six month period is much smaller than the risk of it hitting over 20 or 30 years (life of a mortgage). Insurance companies don't care. This leaves banks. But, flood damage rarely destroys 100% of the value. A $300,000 house is generally a third land value and two thirds house. If the house loses a roof that can be $50,000 or less. Flood damage can add to this. But even if the damage is $100,000 the bank might not lose anything. The only real losers are the home owners who cannot afford to fix the damage, declare bankruptcy and lose everything.

This happened in Katrina, it happened in Harvey, and I expect it happened in Irma. Prior to Irma I heard that Florida had "prepared for hurricanes". Idiotic. You cannot prepare for a category 4 or 5. You can "prepare" for a Cat 1 or 2, but unless you can guarantee you won't be hit by a 4 or 5 you aren't prepared. Once again, all the politicians do is take the developers money to run their campaigns and then put a positive spin on things when the disasters do hit.

These disasters have been predicted, often 20 years before the fact. There is no "real" preparation or response except for a few exceptions. I read of one town along the Mississippi, they were told that they needed to move to higher ground and they did. They move the entire town to an area 200 feet higher and have not been flooded since.

So then, I think Christians should be aware of the weakness and ineffectiveness of politicians. That doesn't mean that government service is unchristian or that some jobs are more sanctified than others, a position that was pushed in the LRC. But if you are going to go into it you should not be ignorant of what is involved and the bargains that have to be made.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:47 PM   #1572
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This happened in Katrina, it happened in Harvey, and I expect it happened in Irma. Prior to Irma I heard that Florida had "prepared for hurricanes". Idiotic. You cannot prepare for a category 4 or 5. You can "prepare" for a Cat 1 or 2, but unless you can guarantee you won't be hit by a 4 or 5 you aren't prepared. Once again, all the politicians do is take the developers money to run their campaigns and then put a positive spin on things when the disasters do hit.

These disasters have been predicted, often 20 years before the fact. There is no "real" preparation or response except for a few exceptions. I read of one town along the Mississippi, they were told that they needed to move to higher ground and they did. They move the entire town to an area 200 feet higher and have not been flooded since.
Hurricane proof? I saw some of the damage from Irma. Houses never built on stilts. Trailer homes set on cinder blocks. They should read the scripture about building on sinking sand.

These storms are "unprecedented" not because they have never happened before, but because we now have more people living on the shoreline than ever before. You can thank National Flood Insurance programs for that. Hurricane Donna was worse than Irma, yet in 1960 there were less than 5 Million people in Florida. Funny thing is that Donna occurred while the early climate change crowd were crying "ice age."
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:03 PM   #1573
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Hurricane proof? I saw some of the damage from Irma. Houses never built on stilts. Trailer homes set on cinder blocks. They should read the scripture about building on sinking sand.

These storms are "unprecedented" not because they have never happened before, but because we now have more people living on the shoreline than ever before. You can thank National Flood Insurance programs for that. Hurricane Donna was worse than Irma, yet in 1960 there were less than 5 Million people in Florida. Funny thing is that Donna occurred while the early climate change crowd were crying "ice age."
All of those houses are built where any geologist could tell you clearly you were in danger in the event of a hurricane, etc. However, people assume that if the govt allows the house to be built then it must be safe. The reality is the government is allowing people to gamble. You can gamble with your life savings. They just didn't know that this is what the deal was.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:09 PM   #1574
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All of those houses are built where any geologist could tell you clearly you were in danger in the event of a hurricane, etc. However, people assume that if the govt allows the house to be built then it must be safe. The reality is the government is allowing people to gamble. You can gamble with your life savings. They just didn't know that this is what the deal was.
Talking about buildings, did you hear about that new skyscraper in San Francisco built on sinking sand? Called the Millennial Building, they decided not to build it on bedrock. They should have hired a decent geologist named ZNP. What a boondoggle! The thing is leaning too.
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:34 PM   #1575
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You can thank National Flood Insurance programs for that.
Trump couldn't insure his Mar a Lago, and his Jupiter Fl resorts, cuz no insurance company would insure a known flood zone.

So he had to sign up with the FEMA insurance program. That program is in debt to the fed gov'ment to the tune of 1.5 billion, and if it were a private large insurance company it would be in receivership long ago.

Funny thing is, the FEMA insurance program was being discontinued (for obvious reasons) but Trump sign legislation to extend it. Trump will always take care of Trump, first and foremost, damn the debt.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:57 AM   #1576
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Trump couldn't insure his Mar a Lago, and his Jupiter Fl resorts, cuz no insurance company would insure a known flood zone.

So he had to sign up with the FEMA insurance program. That program is in debt to the fed gov'ment to the tune of 1.5 billion, and if it were a private large insurance company it would be in receivership long ago.

Funny thing is, the FEMA insurance program was being discontinued (for obvious reasons) but Trump sign legislation to extend it. Trump will always take care of Trump, first and foremost, damn the debt.
Now you know why he wanted to be president. I'm sure he realized the danger to his resort long before running.
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:34 AM   #1577
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At the UN yesterday Trump showed once again that the biggest threat to the world today is Trump himself.
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:41 AM   #1578
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I have long doubted that the entire medical profession really cared for human health. Sick people keep them rich.
I guess they should just be in debt up to their eyeballs to pay for all the years of education required to be allowed to practice medicine and just give their services away for less than required to cover their costs.

Besides, in today's litigious society, since there is always a significant risk of lawsuit, there is a legitimate need to earn more to encourage them to take the risk of losing it all.

And when you doubt the care for human health, the reason that many doctors have such terrible "bedside manner" is that they are very concerned with treating/curing human health issues, but not always so good at dealing with other aspects of the person, or being "personable." They are not being called to the vocation of pastor/shepherd. They are highly-skilled technicians. Not entertainers or social workers.
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:50 AM   #1579
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I guess they should just be in debt up to their eyeballs to pay for all the years of education required to be allowed to practice medicine and just give their services away for less than required to cover their costs.

Besides, in today's litigious society, since there is always a significant risk of lawsuit, there is a legitimate need to earn more to encourage them to take the risk of losing it all.

And when you doubt the care for human health, the reason that many doctors have such terrible "bedside manner" is that they are very concerned with treating/curing human health issues, but not always so good at dealing with other aspects of the person, or being "personable." They are not being called to the vocation of pastor/shepherd. They are highly-skilled technicians. Not entertainers or social workers.

Since the biggest concern with healthcare is the cost it seems reasonable that cutting cost through efficiency is a valid and perhaps desirable strategy. It is well proven that Medicare is the most efficient system out there and would save billions of dollars. I see no reason why a single payer system would have to result in doctors being in debt up to their eyeballs. Likewise, you can always pay for a doctor out of pocket, so Medicare does not restrict the free market capitalism of medicine.

I was in the hospital in England and it was a much better experience than any I have had in the US. I also was in the hospital in Taiwan and that experience was also excellent. None of these doctors appeared destitute.

Also, there is a valid interest in having every person covered with insurance. First, the hospitals are forced to provide a minimum care regardless and this burden should be born by all, not foisted onto a few poor hospitals. Second, who wants someone with TB or some other communicable disease living on buses and subways because they can't afford medical care?
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:52 AM   #1580
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At the UN yesterday Trump showed once again that the biggest threat to the world today is Trump himself.
Well let's see if Israel announces the rebuilding of the temple now that they have Trump in their corner.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:19 PM   #1581
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I guess they should just be in debt up to their eyeballs to pay for all the years of education required to be allowed to practice medicine and just give their services away for less than required to cover their costs.

Besides, in today's litigious society, since there is always a significant risk of lawsuit, there is a legitimate need to earn more to encourage them to take the risk of losing it all.

And when you doubt the care for human health, the reason that many doctors have such terrible "bedside manner" is that they are very concerned with treating/curing human health issues, but not always so good at dealing with other aspects of the person, or being "personable." They are not being called to the vocation of pastor/shepherd. They are highly-skilled technicians. Not entertainers or social workers.
Doctors make up a small percentage of the health profession.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:20 PM   #1582
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At the UN yesterday Trump showed once again that the biggest threat to the world today is Trump himself.
I no longer question your intelligence.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:22 PM   #1583
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Well let's see if Israel announces the rebuilding of the temple now that they have Trump in their corner.
And the rest of the world has Jared?
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:09 PM   #1584
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And the rest of the world has Jared?
1. Jared Kushner is responsible for negotiating peace in the Middle East.

2. Jared Kushner is responsible for solving America’s opioid epidemic.

3. Jared Kushner is responsible for diplomacy with Mexico.

4. Jared Kushner is responsible for diplomacy with China.

5. Jared Kushner is responsible for reforming care for veterans.

6. Jared Kushner is responsible for reforming the criminal justice system.

7. Jared Kushner is responsible for reinventing the entire government and making it work like a business.
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:58 PM   #1585
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1. Jared Kushner is responsible for negotiating peace in the Middle East.

2. Jared Kushner is responsible for solving America’s opioid epidemic.

3. Jared Kushner is responsible for diplomacy with Mexico.

4. Jared Kushner is responsible for diplomacy with China.

5. Jared Kushner is responsible for reforming care for veterans.

6. Jared Kushner is responsible for reforming the criminal justice system.

7. Jared Kushner is responsible for reinventing the entire government and making it work like a business.
Oh, that Jared.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:23 PM   #1586
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The South Koreans are more worried about Trump than they are about Kim Jong-il.
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Old 09-21-2017, 02:27 AM   #1587
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The South Koreans are more worried about Trump than they are about Kim Jong-il.
First hand proof of the brainwashing delusional effects of liberal bias fake news from the main stream media.
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:38 AM   #1588
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First hand proof of the brainwashing delusional effects of liberal bias fake news from the main stream media.
There's hope. The noose is tightening. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...gal-noose.html
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:41 AM   #1589
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There's hope. The noose is tightening. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...gal-noose.html
Not more fake news from the mainstream media again.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:27 AM   #1590
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The USA and North Korea could use adult leaders.
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:14 PM   #1591
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Good presidents unite the country. Trump divides it.
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Old 09-24-2017, 04:41 AM   #1592
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Good presidents unite the country. Trump divides it.
Trump inherited the divided country from the racist Barry.
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:37 AM   #1593
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Trump inherited the divided country from the racist Barry.
And is his way, Trump seems to be doubling down.
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Old 09-24-2017, 05:42 PM   #1594
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Good presidents unite the country. Trump divides it.
Just so I'm clear, Hurricane Harvey has caused toxic flooding in Houston, Maria has wiped out Puerto Rico, we have had 3 500 year floods in the last 27 months, the area that undergoes fires in the West has grown 9 fold in recent years, two nuclear powers are threatening nuclear destruction of each other, Republican's latest attempts at fixing health care appears to be doomed, and what you are focused on is a tweet about the NFL players and the national anthem?

If Trump's goal is to distract the country from the truly catastrophic things going on this country he seems to be doing a wonderful job.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:08 PM   #1595
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Just so I'm clear, Hurricane Harvey has caused toxic flooding in Houston, Maria has wiped out Puerto Rico, we have had 3 500 year floods in the last 27 months, the area that undergoes fires in the West has grown 9 fold in recent years, two nuclear powers are threatening nuclear destruction of each other, Republican's latest attempts at fixing health care appears to be doomed, and what you are focused on is a tweet about the NFL players and the national anthem?

If Trump's goal is to distract the country from the truly catastrophic things going on this country he seems to be doing a wonderful job.
Trump was stirring up his racist base in Alabama.
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Old 09-25-2017, 05:25 PM   #1596
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At least six of President Trump's advisers, including Steve Bannon and Reince Priebus, used private email accounts for government business---Lock 'em up!
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Old 09-25-2017, 05:30 PM   #1597
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NFL players are kneeling because to them, America is not living up to the ideals the flag represents. Let's call them the "angry brothers".

Mothers of slain soldiers are angry at the NFL players for kneeling and disrespecting the flag because their children died in American-instigated wars to "protect the flag".

So it's the angry brothers versus the angry mothers.

Trump's logic must be thus: Every time an angry NFL player kneels another soldier gets shot in Iraq/Afghanistan which makes a mother angry.

Therefore the best solution according to Trump, to fix the problem of angry mothers, it to tell the NFL players to stop kneeling. The logic makes sense to me I think.
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Old 09-25-2017, 06:10 PM   #1598
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Trump was stirring up his racist base in Alabama.
I'm more interested in his trying to stir up Kim to fire at our airplanes. This could be a good strategy. Instead of letting him fire nuclear missiles on his own time frame force him to fire at your planes, then you can wipe out his offensive firepower before they can fire on Seoul.

Everyone knows that if N Korea gets to decide when to start a war that Seoul will suffer the worst, but if they start a war by firing on our airplane we might be able to preempt that worst case scenario.

But realistically speaking we cannot allow N Korea to have hydrogen bombs on intercontinental missiles that they then sell to Iran and Isis.
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:33 PM   #1599
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I'm more interested in his trying to stir up Kim to fire at our airplanes. This could be a good strategy. Instead of letting him fire nuclear missiles on his own time frame force him to fire at your planes, then you can wipe out his offensive firepower before they can fire on Seoul.

Everyone knows that if N Korea gets to decide when to start a war that Seoul will suffer the worst, but if they start a war by firing on our airplane we might be able to preempt that worst case scenario.

But realistically speaking we cannot allow N Korea to have hydrogen bombs on intercontinental missiles that they then sell to Iran and Isis.
Trump ever the provocateur seems to want to provoke Kim into crossing the red line so that the US will be justified in going to war with him. He is playing Chicken with Kim with millions of lives at stake. Trump, the malignant narcissist, has no empathy and is all about winning for himself. So he doesn't really give a **** about the loss of human lives.

Trump isn't giving Kim any way to save face. He seems to want war. It will make him the great man that he believes he is. It would be nice if you were right. But, unfortunately, I think you're giving Trump more credit for strategy than he deserves. How do you figure that provoking NK to fire on our planes will help avoid a nuclear bomb event? It seems like it could have the opposite result.
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:11 AM   #1600
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Trump ever the provocateur seems to want to provoke Kim into crossing the red line so that the US will be justified in going to war with him. He is playing Chicken with Kim with millions of lives at stake. Trump, the malignant narcissist, has no empathy and is all about winning for himself. So he doesn't really give a **** about the loss of human lives.

Trump isn't giving Kim any way to save face. He seems to want war. It will make him the great man that he believes he is. It would be nice if you were right. But, unfortunately, I think you're giving Trump more credit for strategy than he deserves. How do you figure that provoking NK to fire on our planes will help avoid a nuclear bomb event? It seems like it could have the opposite result.
Millions of lives have been at stake for 30+ years, that is the N Korea gambit, we hold a gun pointed at Seoul and you will not dare confronting us. Meanwhile they have continued their nuclear program, built A bombs and H bombs and intercontinental ballistic missiles that could kit S. Korea, Japan and the US. In addition they are demonstrating that they work for the world to see, thus opening the door for becoming an arms dealer to Iran and ISIS. That is the reality and has nothing to do with Trump, or Obama, or Bush or Clinton.

The strategy that we have taken for the last 30 years had to include a line that N Korea could not cross. If they didn't cross it when they demonstrated a working intercontinental ballistic missile and working nuclear bombs then there is no line and the previous policy was complete BS.

Since it is becoming very obvious that we will have to resolve this militarily and since that will certainly result in horrendous losses in N Korea and very likely in S Korea as well it is critical that the US not be the one to start it. However, the worst case scenario is that N Korea decides on their own when to start because that will involve the most amount of nuclear missiles as well as ordinance aimed at Seoul. Instead, if we can provoke them to fire a missile at one of our planes that is sufficient for us to respond and within 30 minutes we could wipe out their offensive capabilities and every missile. That is the highest probability of preventing nuclear missiles from being fired and should result in the least amount of damage to Seoul.
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:50 AM   #1601
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What's got me disturbed is, we've got two man-children with the button. One man child is saying "I'm the greatest," and the other man child is saying, "No, I'm the greatest." And they're going back and forth like two bullies on the playground, until to prove who's greatest one of them hits the button.

It doesn't take much to trigger a world war. And the resulting radiation will blanket the earth. No winners. #sad ... #mad.
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:37 AM   #1602
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Trump ever the provocateur seems to want to provoke Kim into crossing the red line so that the US will be justified in going to war with him. He is playing Chicken with Kim with millions of lives at stake. Trump, the malignant narcissist, has no empathy and is all about winning for himself. So he doesn't really give a **** about the loss of human lives.

Trump isn't giving Kim any way to save face. He seems to want war. It will make him the great man that he believes he is. It would be nice if you were right. But, unfortunately, I think you're giving Trump more credit for strategy than he deserves. How do you figure that provoking NK to fire on our planes will help avoid a nuclear bomb event? It seems like it could have the opposite result.
This is nonsense. Kim started acting badly ... Once again ... In an effort to extort billions more, which regularly worked for him and his despotic father with past presidents.

Unfortunately the UN has morphed into a useless anti Israel toothless tiger.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:08 AM   #1603
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Millions of lives have been at stake for 30+ years, that is the N Korea gambit, we hold a gun pointed at Seoul and you will not dare confronting us. Meanwhile they have continued their nuclear program, built A bombs and H bombs and intercontinental ballistic missiles that could kit S. Korea, Japan and the US. In addition they are demonstrating that they work for the world to see, thus opening the door for becoming an arms dealer to Iran and ISIS. That is the reality and has nothing to do with Trump, or Obama, or Bush or Clinton.

The strategy that we have taken for the last 30 years had to include a line that N Korea could not cross. If they didn't cross it when they demonstrated a working intercontinental ballistic missile and working nuclear bombs then there is no line and the previous policy was complete BS.

Since it is becoming very obvious that we will have to resolve this militarily and since that will certainly result in horrendous losses in N Korea and very likely in S Korea as well it is critical that the US not be the one to start it. However, the worst case scenario is that N Korea decides on their own when to start because that will involve the most amount of nuclear missiles as well as ordinance aimed at Seoul. Instead, if we can provoke them to fire a missile at one of our planes that is sufficient for us to respond and within 30 minutes we could wipe out their offensive capabilities and every missile. That is the highest probability of preventing nuclear missiles from being fired and should result in the least amount of damage to Seoul.
Thank you for spelling out so succinctly both our continued dilemma and our preferred strategy for our "outraged" friend who only knows what the Clinton News Network told him last night.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:26 PM   #1604
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I'm more interested in his trying to stir up Kim to fire at our airplanes. This could be a good strategy. Instead of letting him fire nuclear missiles on his own time frame force him to fire at your planes, then you can wipe out his offensive firepower before they can fire on Seoul.

Everyone knows that if N Korea gets to decide when to start a war that Seoul will suffer the worst, but if they start a war by firing on our airplane we might be able to preempt that worst case scenario.

But realistically speaking we cannot allow N Korea to have hydrogen bombs on intercontinental missiles that they then sell to Iran and Isis.
The flaw in this strategy is that Kim could destroy Seoul within 5 minutes of any American aggression being detected using his artillery.

There is no way American can destroy up to 1 million artillery pieces within 5 minutes and there is no missile defense for artillery.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:30 PM   #1605
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Millions of lives have been at stake for 30+ years, that is the N Korea gambit, we hold a gun pointed at Seoul and you will not dare confronting us. Meanwhile they have continued their nuclear program, built A bombs and H bombs and intercontinental ballistic missiles that could kit S. Korea, Japan and the US. In addition they are demonstrating that they work for the world to see, thus opening the door for becoming an arms dealer to Iran and ISIS. That is the reality and has nothing to do with Trump, or Obama, or Bush or Clinton.

The strategy that we have taken for the last 30 years had to include a line that N Korea could not cross. If they didn't cross it when they demonstrated a working intercontinental ballistic missile and working nuclear bombs then there is no line and the previous policy was complete BS.

Since it is becoming very obvious that we will have to resolve this militarily and since that will certainly result in horrendous losses in N Korea and very likely in S Korea as well it is critical that the US not be the one to start it. However, the worst case scenario is that N Korea decides on their own when to start because that will involve the most amount of nuclear missiles as well as ordinance aimed at Seoul. Instead, if we can provoke them to fire a missile at one of our planes that is sufficient for us to respond and within 30 minutes we could wipe out their offensive capabilities and every missile. That is the highest probability of preventing nuclear missiles from being fired and should result in the least amount of damage to Seoul.

Again, you've mentioned wiping out their missiles (if that is possible, I don't think it is because they don't know where they are) but forgetting about the artillery and other conventional weapons which are the bigger danger. Remember Kim does not need nuclear weapons or missiles to take over Seoul, the nuclear capability is to threaten Japan and the US directly.
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:03 PM   #1606
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The flaw in this strategy is that Kim could destroy Seoul within 5 minutes of any American aggression being detected using his artillery.

There is no way American can destroy up to 1 million artillery pieces within 5 minutes and there is no missile defense for artillery.
Within 30 minutes we could lay down a devastating barrage, with our own artillery, bombs, drones, warthogs, etc. So although with perfect communications they should know within 5 minutes of firing on an airplane that they are at war we also have very effective techniques at jamming communications and knocking them out, so there is a fighting chance in the fog of war N Korean troops don't get the order. Regardless of the actual outcome it is clearly the best option in the event of war.
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:04 PM   #1607
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Again, you've mentioned wiping out their missiles (if that is possible, I don't think it is because they don't know where they are) but forgetting about the artillery and other conventional weapons which are the bigger danger. Remember Kim does not need nuclear weapons or missiles to take over Seoul, the nuclear capability is to threaten Japan and the US directly.
Missiles are fired from a location and take a good 30 seconds to be fired and get off the launch pad. If you have those launch pads retargeted with drones it is very possible to obliterate them in less than 30 seconds. Once again, the best chance we have of hitting a missile is during launch.

We would completely own the skies from day 1. That means those who fire artillery would be acting suicidal. Yes we can't stop them, but the minute they fire they are identified as a target which can be destroyed quickly and easily.
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:55 PM   #1608
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Missiles are fired from a location and take a good 30 seconds to be fired and get off the launch pad. If you have those launch pads retargeted with drones it is very possible to obliterate them in less than 30 seconds. Once again, the best chance we have of hitting a missile is during launch.

We would completely own the skies from day 1. That means those who fire artillery would be acting suicidal. Yes we can't stop them, but the minute they fire they are identified as a target which can be destroyed quickly and easily.
That's being optimistic and perhaps unrealistic. This is not Iraq where everything is out in the open. I think in reality it would take weeks because most of the artillery is in mountain bunkers and the terrain favors NK. The artillery is well protected and can fire and quickly return to its safe position. There is the real potential for weeks of artillery bombardment of South Korea.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:12 PM   #1609
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That's being optimistic and perhaps unrealistic. This is not Iraq where everything is out in the open. I think in reality it would take weeks because most of the artillery is in mountain bunkers and the terrain favors NK. The artillery is well protected and can fire and quickly return to its safe position. There is the real potential for weeks of artillery bombardment of South Korea.
So like Iraq we hit 'em with Shock and Awe. There's nukes there, and nuclear materials. Lot's of radiation will be spewed into the earth's atmosphere. I may be far enough away to not be killed or affected by the blast, but the chance of me dying a slow early death will be greater, from the rise in the radiation level, in the air, soil, food, and water.

I say, let NK be considered a nuclear nation, like so many others, including our self. And let's try to get along with them like we do all the other nuclear nations ... and there's lots of them ... way toooooooo many. We started it. We're the only ones so far to use these nuclear WMD's on non-combatant civilians.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:54 AM   #1610
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That's being optimistic and perhaps unrealistic. This is not Iraq where everything is out in the open. I think in reality it would take weeks because most of the artillery is in mountain bunkers and the terrain favors NK. The artillery is well protected and can fire and quickly return to its safe position. There is the real potential for weeks of artillery bombardment of South Korea.
I think our biggest concern at this point is intercontinental ballistic missiles with atomic warheads. There is no doubt that the best time to hit those is while they are taking off. If we have a predator drone circling above when they are first launched we will be in position to do that. If we have our full resources focused on N. Korea we should know where the launching pads are located.

Once N. Korea fires a single nuclear missile we will have the green light to use tactical nuclear bombs on their artillery. With satellites and drones we can pinpoint locations from which artillery is fired and target that location in a matter of seconds with cruise missiles, other artillery, Warthogs, etc.

That said, you are correct, it will likely be a very difficult process of a week or more to eliminate every single one of these artillery bunkers. But that is not a guarantee. It is known as the "fog of war". If a N. Korean airplane fires on a US airplane we can take that aggression as a declaration of war. If we immediately initiate an all out attack designed to also wipe out their communications then it is possible in a best case scenario that very few N. Koreans will receive an order to fire. We can no longer be restrained by the fear of an artillery shell hitting Seoul.

The reason humans have moved away from war since the advent of the nuclear age is that world trade increases the cost of war and decreases the potential profit. That is not true of N. Korea, they have virtually no world trade at risk. In fact, the only real thing of value they have to trade is this technology of nuclear bombs and intercontinental ballistic missiles. It seems a certainty that Iran and others would currently be working with them to buy this technology.

Therefore it is critical to calculate in the cost of doing nothing. Does anyone really think that if Iran or ISIS gets this technology they won't use it? It is not reasonable to think that doing nothing will lead to peace, it will lead to a nuclear war. Hence the time has come to rip the bandaid off.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:01 AM   #1611
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So like Iraq we hit 'em with Shock and Awe. There's nukes there, and nuclear materials. Lot's of radiation will be spewed into the earth's atmosphere. I may be far enough away to not be killed or affected by the blast, but the chance of me dying a slow early death will be greater, from the rise in the radiation level, in the air, soil, food, and water.

I say, let NK be considered a nuclear nation, like so many others, including our self. And let's try to get along with them like we do all the other nuclear nations ... and there's lots of them ... way toooooooo many. We started it. We're the only ones so far to use these nuclear WMD's on non-combatant civilians.
Then you will also have to "get along" with a nuclear Iran with missiles that can hit Israel and the US as well as a nuclear ISIS. The terrorists wet dream, a missile that can hit the US and Europe with a nuclear bomb from a cave in Afghanistan.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:43 AM   #1612
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We started it. We're the only ones so far to use these nuclear WMD's on non-combatant civilians.
'Well geez, if you say it like that you can make anything sound bad. We have nuclear bombs because we are awesome!' (Adapted from Rick in Rick and Morty)
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:12 AM   #1613
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So like Iraq we hit 'em with Shock and Awe. There's nukes there, and nuclear materials. Lot's of radiation will be spewed into the earth's atmosphere. I may be far enough away to not be killed or affected by the blast, but the chance of me dying a slow early death will be greater, from the rise in the radiation level, in the air, soil, food, and water.

I say, let NK be considered a nuclear nation, like so many others, including our self. And let's try to get along with them like we do all the other nuclear nations ... and there's lots of them ... way toooooooo many. We started it. We're the only ones so far to use these nuclear WMD's on non-combatant civilians.
Yeah great idea! Let's make love, not war. Why can't our leaders ever try a little diplomacy? Send someone skillful over there, how about that colorful Dennis Rodman? All we are saying ... is give peace a chance!

Instead of bombing each other, let's just share a little radiation with each other. Instead of EMP's wiping out our grid, how about we show a sign of respect by shutting off the power grid tonight. We can call it the Kim Jong-Un National Power Grid Appreciation Day.

Instead of disrespecting fat people in power, how about we all show our empathy and respect by eating "missile-shaped" chocolate bars with Kim's face engraved on them. They will be made of Ghiradelli Chocolate so that he won't bomb San Francisco.

Instead of the NFL playing games in London, why doesn't the NFL play a game of football next week in Pyingyang. While the US National Anthem is played, the entire team can take a knee while facing Kim in homage, and then heartily clap and cheer when their Anthem is played.

Then in a sign of submissive uniformity, several "volunteers" from both teams will stay behind in NoKo because of all the disrespect we have showed them over the Otto Warbier incident.

And just to show how we are a nation of loving immigrants, let's send the Clinton's and the Obama's with the NFL as goodwill Ambassadors. This will show Kim and the whole world that we are not racist homophobic xenophobes.

Thanks awareness! You are onto something here!
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:15 AM   #1614
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Then in a sign of submissive uniformity, several "volunteers" from both teams will stay behind in NoKo because of the disrespect we showed them over the Otto Warbier incident.
It may appear that the N. Korean's were too harsh on Otto, but let's remember, he pulled that poster off the wall.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:18 AM   #1615
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It may appear that the N. Korean's were too harsh on Otto, but let's remember, he pulled that poster off the wall.
Did you look at that video closely? It was not Otto who did that.

The "crime" was staged.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:07 AM   #1616
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Did you look at that video closely? It was not Otto who did that.

The "crime" was staged.
I was tongue in cheek, I don't think death is an appropriate penalty for pulling a poster off a wall, particularly if it was staged.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:23 PM   #1617
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Yeah great idea! Let's make love, not war. Why can't our leaders ever try a little diplomacy? Send someone skillful over there, how about that colorful Dennis Rodman? All we are saying ... is give peace a chance!

Instead of bombing each other, let's just share a little radiation with each other. Instead of EMP's wiping out our grid, how about we show a sign of respect by shutting off the power grid tonight. We can call it the Kim Jong-Un National Power Grid Appreciation Day.

Instead of disrespecting fat people in power, how about we all show our empathy and respect by eating "missile-shaped" chocolate bars with Kim's face engraved on them. They will be made of Ghiradelli Chocolate so that he won't bomb San Francisco.

Instead of the NFL playing games in London, why doesn't the NFL play a game of football next week in Pyingyang. While the US National Anthem is played, the entire team can take a knee while facing Kim in homage, and then heartily clap and cheer when their Anthem is played.

Then in a sign of submissive uniformity, several "volunteers" from both teams will stay behind in NoKo because of all the disrespect we have showed them over the Otto Warbier incident.

And just to show how we are a nation of loving immigrants, let's send the Clinton's and the Obama's with the NFL as goodwill Ambassadors. This will show Kim and the whole world that we are not racist homophobic xenophobes.

Thanks awareness! You are onto something here!
Good one bro. Very creative. I guess you told this long-haired hippie communist. Haha.

I'm afraid my I idea wasn't as creative. I read an article about diplomacy between the Netherlands and North Korea. One of the things that was stressed is that NK wants to be recognized as a nuclear state. Of course we don't want that, L'il Kim is a crazy man.

But the way I see it, everyone that has nukes are crazy, including us. And unless we're going to nuke NK back to the stone age we're stuck with NK being a nuke nation. If not, we're going to have to learn to live with it ; just as we live with every other nation that has them.

I just think Trump is going about it all wrong. He seems to be provoking a war with L'il Kim. And it concerns me a lot. I don't think the world needs another world war. Too many powers have nukes, and it will hurt everyone if they start flying.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:41 PM   #1618
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A possible solution to the NK problem without conflict is to equip SK with nuclear weapons so the two countries can achieve a sort of balance such as achieved between India and Pakistan.

Then the US can remove its military forces from South Korea and they should be able to defend themselves against NK's superior force.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:52 PM   #1619
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A possible solution to the NK problem without conflict is to equip SK with nuclear weapons so the two countries can achieve a sort of balance such as achieved between India and Pakistan.

Then the US can remove its military forces from South Korea and they should be able to defend themselves against NK's superior force.
I don't think the concern with anyone is that S. Korea is being threatened by N. Korea's nukes. If they nuke S. Korea it will poison N. Korea. Both the US and Japan are poised to wipe out N. Korea if they fire a nuclear bomb. Just because they might be able to fire a missile that we are unable to shoot down does not in any way mean they can wipe out the US and Japan's capabilities prior to a counter strike. The use of one nuclear bomb means certain total destruction of N. Korea.

Nor is the concern that N. Korea is now a nuclear state as Awareness is pushing.

The concern is that they will sell these nukes, and that their entire program has been to design nuclear weapons and missiles for sale to countries that can't get them (Iran) and anyone else willing to pay (ISIS).

Unless you (or Awareness) have a peaceful way to address this you haven't responded to the crisis.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:03 PM   #1620
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I don't think the concern with anyone is that S. Korea is being threatened by N. Korea's nukes. If they nuke S. Korea it will poison N. Korea. Both the US and Japan are poised to wipe out N. Korea if they fire a nuclear bomb. Just because they might be able to fire a missile that we are unable to shoot down does not in any way mean they can wipe out the US and Japan's capabilities prior to a counter strike. The use of one nuclear bomb means certain total destruction of N. Korea.

Nor is the concern that N. Korea is now a nuclear state as Awareness is pushing.

The concern is that they will sell these nukes, and that their entire program has been to design nuclear weapons and missiles for sale to countries that can't get them (Iran) and anyone else willing to pay (ISIS).

Unless you (or Awareness) have a peaceful way to address this you haven't responded to the crisis.

There's some logic there that doesn't make sense, which is that it is tolerated for NK to be a nuclear state but we are afraid that Iran will become a nuclear state. The use of these weapons by either NK or Iran will result in their total destruction. So it really doesn't matter if Iran gets them as well, if they use them they will be destroyed just like NK would be.

Iran is no more willing to use them against the US than NK is, and Iran is more rational in terms of the sanity and disposition of their leaders, and the US has not really given Iran any reason to destroy them. Unlike North Korea which is against the US on the basis of the US destroying most of their country in the Korean war.

ISIS having them is more of a concern because they would probably use them to promote an agenda, and there is no real way America could retaliate because ISIS is not a country. But Iran is majority Shia religion and compared to ISIS is more moderate, I don't see Iran giving ISIS much support against the US.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:05 PM   #1621
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A possible solution to the NK problem without conflict is to equip SK with nuclear weapons so the two countries can achieve a sort of balance such as achieved between India and Pakistan.

Then the US can remove its military forces from South Korea and they should be able to defend themselves against NK's superior force.
China and Russia would never allow this, just as we would not allow nukes in Cuba. SoKo could never stand alone against NoKo.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:30 PM   #1622
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But the way I see it, everyone that has nukes are crazy, including us. And unless we're going to nuke NK back to the stone age we're stuck with NK being a nuke nation. If not, we're going to have to learn to live with it ; just as we live with every other nation that has them.

I just think Trump is going about it all wrong. He seems to be provoking a war with L'il Kim. And it concerns me a lot. I don't think the world needs another world war. Too many powers have nukes, and it will hurt everyone if they start flying.
Kim is the one who has threatened the US. Trump is only counter-punching the bully. If Hillary had won the election, she would be in the same dilemma, except she would probably buy more time like Obama did in Iran, at the expense of Israel and $150 Billion.

Kim wants far more than a little "recognition." Initially Kim wants the whole Korean peninsula, and he believes that striking the US and demobilizing us is the way to accomplish that. Kim believes that the US will not strike back, since that will put us against China.

Unfortunately for us all, Kim sees the HANEMP as his winning formula. Supposedly he can attack our infrastructure without directly killing any Americans. Then he is free to move his troups into SoKo, thinking we will be unwilling and unable to retaliate with nukes so near China and Russia.

Apparently the effects of an HANEMP would be similar to what has happened in Puerto Rico. Their infrastructure is wiped out for months. We now have 3 major hurricane disasters in less than a month, which will all look like mere toothaches if Kim successfully launches that NEMP which he has promised.

Meanwhile half the country has decided they don't like their country anymore. We have some serious issues here folks.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:40 PM   #1623
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There's some logic there that doesn't make sense, which is that it is tolerated for NK to be a nuclear state but we are afraid that Iran will become a nuclear state. The use of these weapons by either NK or Iran will result in their total destruction. So it really doesn't matter if Iran gets them as well, if they use them they will be destroyed just like NK would be.

Iran is no more willing to use them against the US than NK is, and Iran is more rational in terms of the sanity and disposition of their leaders, and the US has not really given Iran any reason to destroy them. Unlike North Korea which is against the US on the basis of the US destroying most of their country in the Korean war.

ISIS having them is more of a concern because they would probably use them to promote an agenda, and there is no real way America could retaliate because ISIS is not a country. But Iran is majority Shia religion and compared to ISIS is more moderate, I don't see Iran giving ISIS much support against the US.
That is not what I said. Obviously we are concerned when a country with a nuclear bomb and an intercontinental ballistic missile threatens us with it. The US is concerned and Japan is concerned.

What I said is that we are not particularly worried about N. Korea using the bomb on S. Korea because that would not make any sense. S. Korea is not threatening N. Korea and if you nuke S. Korea you can't then inhabit the place, because you nuked it. There is no possible benefit to N. Korea to do that, while there is a huge disadvantage, they would be destroyed immediately. Nuking S. Korea doesn't make them safer or richer, just the opposite.

Now as destructive as a nuclear missile from N. Korea would be, other than the horrible loss of life it would not impact us that much. N. Korea currently has 0 impact on our economy or on our daily lives. It would be a human calamity that would only make a very small ripple on the world's economy. But you take that same missile to Iran and the story is completely different. Israel would defend themselves. Iran is a huge part of the world's economy, and the possibility that other like minded Arab states would unite with Iran could cause total devastation worldwide, regardless of whether or not the nuclear bomb lands near your city.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:43 PM   #1624
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Kim is the one who has threatened the US. Trump is only counter-punching the bully. If Hillary had won the election, she would be in the same dilemma, except she would probably buy more time like Obama did in Iran, at the expense of Israel and $150 Billion.

Kim wants far more than a little "recognition." Initially Kim wants the whole Korean peninsula, and he believes that striking the US and demobilizing us is the way to accomplish that. Kim believes that the US will not strike back, since that will put us against China.

Unfortunately for us all, Kim sees the HANEMP as his winning formula. Supposedly he can attack our infrastructure without directly killing any Americans. Then he is free to move his troups into SoKo, thinking we will be unwilling and unable to retaliate with nukes so near China and Russia.

Apparently the effects of an HANEMP would be similar to what has happened in Puerto Rico. Their infrastructure is wiped out for months. We now have 3 major hurricane disasters in less than a month, which will all look like mere toothaches if Kim successfully launches that NEMP which he has promised.

Meanwhile half the country has decided they don't like their country anymore. We have some serious issues here folks.
I think the US is far more important to China than N. Korea. If trade with the US were to stop for a few months the impact in China would be catastrophic. If the US suffers a massive economic blow then China does as well. If we go bankrupt, they do too. As for an EMP we also have them and are probably ready to drop it the second he fires on an airplane, disrupting his communications and giving us the 30 minutes we need to wipe out every missile launching site.

Kim is like a Pee Wee football coach thinking he is going to sucker punch the Patriots.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:53 PM   #1625
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I think the US is far more important to China than N. Korea. If trade with the US were to stop for a few months the impact in China would be catastrophic. If the US suffers a massive economic blow then China does as well. If we go bankrupt, they do too. As for an EMP we also have them and are probably ready to drop it the second he fires on an airplane, disrupting his communications and giving us the 30 minutes we need to wipe out every missile launching site.
When I read the prophecies in Revelation, I wonder why the US, the "greatest nation on earth," and the greatest stabilizing force for peace, seems to be totally non-existent.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:56 PM   #1626
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When I read the prophecies in Revelation, I wonder why the US, the "greatest nation on earth," and the greatest stabilizing force for peace, seems to be totally non-existent.
I thought the term "the great eagle" referred to the US. Mexico also has an eagle as a national symbol, between the two countries I think "great eagle" obviously refers to the US.

Also, the US is the greatest nation on earth when you compare us with Germany, Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Switzerland, Luxembourg, etc. But when you combine all of the European countries together it is a different story. That leaves Gog and Magog.

The country I always wondered about was India.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:10 PM   #1627
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"Why would any country in the world sign ...an agreement with the United States if they knew that a reckless president and an irresponsible Congress might simply discard that agreement a few years later?"
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:48 PM   #1628
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"Why would any country in the world sign ...an agreement with the United States if they knew that a reckless president and an irresponsible Congress might simply discard that agreement a few years later?"
Because it was a reckless president and an irresponsible congress who signed the agreement in the first place.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:19 PM   #1629
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Kim is the one who has threatened the US. Trump is only counter-punching the bully. If Hillary had won the election, she would be in the same dilemma, except she would probably buy more time like Obama did in Iran, at the expense of Israel and $150 Billion.

Kim wants far more than a little "recognition." Initially Kim wants the whole Korean peninsula, and he believes that striking the US and demobilizing us is the way to accomplish that. Kim believes that the US will not strike back, since that will put us against China.

Unfortunately for us all, Kim sees the HANEMP as his winning formula. Supposedly he can attack our infrastructure without directly killing any Americans. Then he is free to move his troups into SoKo, thinking we will be unwilling and unable to retaliate with nukes so near China and Russia.

Apparently the effects of an HANEMP would be similar to what has happened in Puerto Rico. Their infrastructure is wiped out for months. We now have 3 major hurricane disasters in less than a month, which will all look like mere toothaches if Kim successfully launches that NEMP which he has promised.

Meanwhile half the country has decided they don't like their country anymore. We have some serious issues here folks.
I understand your concerns bro Ohio. I share them. EMP's have been around since before we were born.

Again we're the pioneers of such weapons. All nuke nations now have the power of HANEMP's. And we have to deal with all of them.

Can't we work it out with NK too? I don't know. Trump and Kim have locked horns. We all know how important "saving face" is to the Chinese, and NKians, so maybe we can't.

As it stands right now, your concerns, and mine, are on high alert, or should be.
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Old 09-28-2017, 03:33 AM   #1630
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Can't we work it out with NK too? I don't know. Trump and Kim have locked horns. We all know how important "saving face" is to the Chinese, and NKians, so maybe we can't.
In part Kim is fueled by the incessant Trump hate rhetoric spread by our media around the world.

Hey did you see the shoes Melania wore the other day? For shame!
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:19 AM   #1631
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In part Kim is fueled by the incessant Trump hate rhetoric spread by our media around the world.

Hey did you see the shoes Melania wore the other day? For shame!
I know, as usual, communists are completely out of touch.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:05 AM   #1632
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I think there is one thing we can all agree on:

“One of the key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace, good people don’t want to go into government.” Donald Trump

This is so true, so true.

People don't give Trump enough credit for some of his more insightful comments like:

"Private jets cost a lot of money". Donald Trump.

Again, so true.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:37 AM   #1633
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Big surprise. Trump's tax plan is great for the rich and bad for the rest of us. It calls for raising the lowest tax rate from 10 to 12 percent and eliminates personal exemptions. Will his working-class supporters ever wise up?
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:45 AM   #1634
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Big surprise. Trump's tax plan is great for the rich and bad for the rest of us. It calls for raising the lowest tax rate from 10 to 12 percent and eliminates personal exemptions. Will his working-class supporters ever wise up?
What difference does it make? His attempt to repeal and replace has failed, every initiative he has proposed has imploded. He campaigns for "Big Luther" and he loses by 10 points. He rebukes the NFL and they all stand 100% united. Now the news is pointing out that his supporters got played by Russia. Does anyone really think he can push through a change in the tax code?
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:53 AM   #1635
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Big surprise. Trump's tax plan is great for the rich and bad for the rest of us. It calls for raising the lowest tax rate from 10 to 12 percent and eliminates personal exemptions. Will his working-class supporters ever wise up?
No, they love puffer fish ... they look bigger than they are, their Puffer Fish-in-Chief.

Don't fret bro Zeek, it's just Trumpspeak. Don't take it serious until congress and the senate get at it. It's sortta like Trumps' promise of healthcare for all, and cheaper and better, than the disaster Obamacare ... and his Trump University.

He's like Witness Lee.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:10 AM   #1636
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No, they love puffer fish ... they look bigger than they are, their Puffer Fish-in-Chief.

Don't fret bro Zeek, it's just Trumpspeak. Don't take it serious until congress and the senate get at it. It's sortta like Trumps' promise of healthcare for all, and cheaper and better, than the disaster Obamacare ... and his Trump University.

He's like Witness Lee.
He was going to label China a currency manipulator, make Mexico pay for the wall, cancel visas to countries that won’t take back illegal immigrants, impose a five year ban on congressmen and Whitehouse officials becoming lobbyists. Not to mention all the things he actually tried to do that have failed.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:41 AM   #1637
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He was going to label China a currency manipulator, make Mexico pay for the wall, cancel visas to countries that won’t take back illegal immigrants, impose a five year ban on congressmen and Whitehouse officials becoming lobbyists. Not to mention all the things he actually tried to do that have failed.
He's got to be great ... in more than just his head. And so far he's not been great. A war will fix that. A war will make him great again. Expect a war, for that reason alone.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:31 PM   #1638
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I thought the term "the great eagle" referred to the US. Mexico also has an eagle as a national symbol, between the two countries I think "great eagle" obviously refers to the US.

Also, the US is the greatest nation on earth when you compare us with Germany, Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Switzerland, Luxembourg, etc. But when you combine all of the European countries together it is a different story. That leaves Gog and Magog.

The country I always wondered about was India.

India like other nations of dark people dont feature in bible prophecy because of the whole ham and kush thing. The Indians are descended from Kush or Ku****es. In India is the Hindu Kush mountains.

I think they will join or follow one of the other great nations...or be destroyed somehow. In short.. the bible overlooks dark people.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:42 PM   #1639
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India like other nations of dark people dont feature in bible prophecy because of the whole ham and kush thing. The Indians are descended from Kush or Ku****es. In India is the Hindu Kush mountains.

I think they will join or follow one of the other great nations...or be destroyed somehow. In short.. the bible overlooks dark people.
So, the Bible is racist?
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:43 PM   #1640
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Finally...a candidate Ohio can be proud of...http://www.businessinsider.com/who-i...results-2017-9
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:05 AM   #1641
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Finally...a candidate Ohio can be proud of...http://www.businessinsider.com/who-i...results-2017-9
That's RIGHT!

I went down to Bama and voted for Roy Moore.

This country needs far more God-fearing leaders with courage and conviction!
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:08 AM   #1642
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India like other nations of dark people dont feature in bible prophecy because of the whole ham and kush thing. The Indians are descended from Kush or Ku****es. In India is the Hindu Kush mountains.

I think they will join or follow one of the other great nations...or be destroyed somehow. In short.. the bible overlooks dark people.
More nonsense speculation from our Kool-Aid sponsor.
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:51 AM   #1643
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So, the Bible is racist?
I think what Evangelical says is that the Bible doesn't see race, or more specifically, it doesn't see dark races.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:51 AM   #1644
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He's got to be great ... in more than just his head. And so far he's not been great. A war will fix that. A war will make him great again. Expect a war, for that reason alone.
I don't think he gets enough sympathy for his health issues which resulted in his being unfit for military duty. Although I do find it strange that the people who get out of military duty wind up becoming commander in chief (Clinton and Trump). That would be a nice law, if you were ineligible for the draft you should also be ineligible for President (would have eliminated both Hillary and Donald from this last election).
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:02 AM   #1645
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I don't think he gets enough sympathy for his health issues which resulted in his being unfit for military duty. Although I do find it strange that the people who get out of military duty wind up becoming commander in chief (Clinton and Trump). That would be a nice law, if you were ineligible for the draft you should also be ineligible for President (would have eliminated both Hillary and Donald from this last election).
First we got Birther problems in the White House with Barry "Who'sSane", and now you want to go after privileged white folks like Bill Clinton for not Chelsea "Manning Up" and serving our country.

What will we be left with, a bunch of guys like John McCain?

God forbid!!!
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:15 AM   #1646
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That's RIGHT!

I went down to Bama and voted for Roy Moore.

This country needs far more God-fearing leaders with courage and conviction!
Or a "Christian" madman that wants a theocracy, and says God's law trumps our constitution.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:30 AM   #1647
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In short.. the bible overlooks dark people.
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More nonsense speculation from our Kool-Aid sponsor.
Now, now, bro Ohio. Don't discourage him from trying to prove his statement. I'd like to hear-read it. Aren't Hebrews dark people?
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:35 AM   #1648
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So, the Bible is racist?
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I think what Evangelical says is that the Bible doesn't see race, or more specifically, it doesn't see dark races.
Of course the Bible is racist. At least the Old Testament. Where God has His chosen race.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:40 AM   #1649
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First we got Birther problems in the White House with Barry "Who'sSane", and now you want to go after privileged white folks like Bill Clinton for not Chelsea "Manning Up" and serving our country.

What will we be left with, a bunch of guys like John McCain?

God forbid!!!
and like JFK, Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, etc. I am not suggesting serving in the military is a requirement. Only that if you applied for and received a deferment that you are ineligible.

After all as commander in chief you are required to send others into battle that you yourself opted out of.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:41 AM   #1650
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Aren't Hebrews dark people?
Thats what confused me.

Evangelical -- help?
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:42 AM   #1651
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Of course the Bible is racist. At least the Old Testament. Where God has His chosen race.
Why do you misquote me. I was referring to Evangelical's post that the Bible "overlooks".

Yes, it was a radical change with the NT, prior to this all religions that I am aware of were racist, nationalists, etc. There is much misunderstanding among liberals that other religions are "more open minded" when in reality it never crossed their mind that anyone outside of their little group would be included.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:59 AM   #1652
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What will we be left with, a bunch of guys like John McCain?
One can only wish. "My way or the highway" has done us absolutely no good for the past 25+ years.

In fact, since virtually all of the John McCains of Congress have been swept from office, we have gridlock instead of action. Hardliners of both parties may influence where things go, but it was the coalition builders that got it done. There have been only a few brief periods in my life in which the House, Senate, and Presidency were firmly on the same page. The rest of the time was either chaos or it had consensus builders among them to get something done.

Seldom to everyone's liking.

But still better than doing nothing.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:07 PM   #1653
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Why do you misquote me.
Sorry. I guess I was more responding to bro Zeek.

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Originally Posted by Z
I was referring to Evangelical's post that the Bible "overlooks".
And Evan is now on the spot to explain the Bible overlooking darkies. Let's see if he gets up before the 10 count.

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Originally Posted by Z
Yes, it was a radical change with the NT, prior to this all religions that I am aware of were racist, nationalists, etc. There is much misunderstanding among liberals that other religions are "more open minded" when in reality it never crossed their mind that anyone outside of their little group would be included.
The Navajo Indians called themselves "The Real People." To them all other tribes weren't real people.

Isn't that the same with the Hebrew tribe? They thought they were so special to God that they wrote in a book that God said it.

Silly Jews, and Navajos, of course God is not a racist ... unless it's the whole human race ... and He's not a speciesist either.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:19 PM   #1654
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The Navajo Indians called themselves "The Real People." To them all other tribes weren't real people.

Isn't that the same with the Hebrew tribe? They thought they were so special to God that they wrote in a book that God said it.

Silly Jews, and Navajos, of course God is not a racist ... unless it's the whole human race ... and He's not a speciesist either.
Shintoism had the same attitude towards Japan. the Gospel to all nations was a very radical and unique concept. A concept that Evangelical seems to have missed, but let's let him clarify that for us.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:30 PM   #1655
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India like other nations of dark people dont feature in bible prophecy because of the whole ham and kush thing. The Indians are descended from Kush or Ku****es. In India is the Hindu Kush mountains.

I think they will join or follow one of the other great nations...or be destroyed somehow. In short.. the bible overlooks dark people.
My approach to bible prophecy is to follow the Generations of Noah and consider the significance of that as related to the nations which will be around during the end times. I find this to be a more robust approach than merely cherry picking verses and trying to figure out how they fit into the bigger picture. It's like trying to complete a jig saw puzzle piece by piece. The Generations of Noah gives us a complete picture of what the "jig saw puzzle" looks like and then we can relate the verses.

We can say confidently that whatever is described concerning Noahs sons will also apply in the end times. This is because of God's order, sovereignty and arrangement. If the bible says God blesses one of Noah's sons, then that nation that is derived from that son will be blessed in the future. Similarly, a nation said to be cursed, like Cush, will not be blessed over time. Cush was a sub-Saharan African and upon whom the curse of Ham fell. Is it only coincidence that nations coming from Cush are not blessed today as much as the sons of Japheth (Western nations)? As Jeremiah 13:23 says - can a Cush ite change his skin?

It's a sign of the PC times I guess that whenever a person's skin color is mentioned then it automatically must mean racism. To clarify my statement about dark people, I do not believe the bible is racist, as it does not attribute skin color as a cause. But generally speaking it does refer to skin color as a consequence. Skin color and health is related, for example we say a person can "turn green with envy", "blue in the face" etc. Color of the skin is not a cause, but a consequence. In other words, the bible does not "overlook" nations of dark people in bible prophecy just because they are dark, but because of what that darkness represented and how it came about. Of greater significance, is the spiritual darkness that is present in Africa and India, that is darker than most other nations with their worship of demons and other evil things.

We can say that God's blessing is not on these nations and for this reason they have not achieved greatness in order to feature significantly in end times events. I can say fairly confidently that no nation that is predominantly comprised of dark people, features significantly (as significantly as USA, Russia, China etc) in bible prophecy. Anyone can check these facts for themselves.

Dark nations in general are covered by Isaiah 18 and any other references to Cush in the Bible. This includes India who are descended from Cush and possibly Shem and Put as well. They are obviously involved but are not major players in end times events.

It is also no coincidence that India is South of Israeli and Russia (kingdom of the North, or Magog). Just as Ethiopia , Egypt etc were South of the ancient Magog. Possibly the exact location of each nation is God's arrangement such that end times prophecy can be fulfilled. God arranged the tectonic plates such that certain nations would reside north, south, east and west of Israel.

To put this another way, if India was located in the region of Iceland, it would be hard to see how the bible prophesy concerning Northern and Southern kingdoms could be true. It is likely significant that there are no nations of dark skinned people in Northern latitudes today or in the end times. Even nature tells us that animals, such as arctic wolves and polar bears that live in high latitudes are white, not black. It would be strange for us to see a polar bear living in Africa or India. But God has ordained these types of animals to live in certain parts of the world.

I could put this another way - in the end times there will be no African or Indian superpower to revival the power of the USA, Russia, China that plays a major role in end times events concerning Israel. The strongest kingdoms are the Northern ones - USA, Russia, China, which all exist at Northern latitudes. These nations are also predominantly lighter skinned than those living in the Southern/equatorial regions. It would be hard for anyone to argue that this is not according to God's arrangement as it relates to bible prophecy.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:39 PM   #1656
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Now, now, bro Ohio. Don't discourage him from trying to prove his statement. I'd like to hear-read it. Aren't Hebrews dark people?
Are Israelites dark skinned today? No. The only people who say Hebrews are dark are dark people (who want a dark skinned Moses, Jesus etc) who are racist against white people, and those who assume that just because Israelites lived in Egypt, then they must look like Egyptians. It's fair to say, that just because a person lives in another country doesn't mean their skin color changes to the predominant color of that nation. Well, we know the Israelites did not have relations with the Egyptians.
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:48 PM   #1657
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My approach to bible prophecy is to follow the Generations of Noah and consider the significance of that as related to the nations which will be around during the end times. I find this to be a more robust approach than merely cherry picking verses and trying to figure out how they fit into the bigger picture. It's like trying to complete a jig saw puzzle piece by piece. The Generations of Noah gives us a complete picture of what the "jig saw puzzle" looks like and then we can relate the verses.

We can say confidently that whatever is described concerning Noahs sons will also apply in the end times. This is because of God's order, sovereignty and arrangement. If the bible says God blesses one of Noah's sons, then that nation that is derived from that son will be blessed in the future. Similarly, a nation said to be cursed, like Cush, will not be blessed over time. Cush was a sub-Saharan African and upon whom the curse of Ham fell. Is it only coincidence that nations coming from Cush are not blessed today as much as the sons of Japheth (Western nations)? As Jeremiah 13:23 says - can a Cush ite change his skin?

It's a sign of the PC times I guess that whenever a person's skin color is mentioned then it automatically must mean racism. To clarify my statement about dark people, I do not believe the bible is racist, as it does not attribute skin color as a cause. But generally speaking it does refer to skin color as a consequence. Skin color and health is related, for example we say a person can "turn green with envy", "blue in the face" etc. Color of the skin is not a cause, but a consequence. In other words, the bible does not "overlook" nations of dark people in bible prophecy just because they are dark, but because of what that darkness represented and how it came about. Of greater significance, is the spiritual darkness that is present in Africa and India, that is darker than most other nations with their worship of demons and other evil things.

We can say that God's blessing is not on these nations and for this reason they have not achieved greatness in order to feature significantly in end times events. I can say fairly confidently that no nation that is predominantly comprised of dark people, features significantly (as significantly as USA, Russia, China etc) in bible prophecy. Anyone can check these facts for themselves.

Dark nations in general are covered by Isaiah 18 and any other references to Cush in the Bible. This includes India who are descended from Cush and possibly Shem and Put as well. They are obviously involved but are not major players in end times events.

It is also no coincidence that India is South of Israeli and Russia (kingdom of the North, or Magog). Just as Ethiopia , Egypt etc were South of the ancient Magog. Possibly the exact location of each nation is God's arrangement such that end times prophecy can be fulfilled. God arranged the tectonic plates such that certain nations would reside north, south, east and west of Israel.

To put this another way, if India was located in the region of Iceland, it would be hard to see how the bible prophesy concerning Northern and Southern kingdoms could be true. It is likely significant that there are no nations of dark skinned people in Northern latitudes today or in the end times. Even nature tells us that animals, such as arctic wolves and polar bears that live in high latitudes are white, not black. It would be strange for us to see a polar bear living in Africa or India. But God has ordained these types of animals to live in certain parts of the world.

I could put this another way - in the end times there will be no African or Indian superpower to revival the power of the USA, Russia, China that plays a major role in end times events concerning Israel. The strongest kingdoms are the Northern ones - USA, Russia, China, which all exist at Northern latitudes. These nations are also predominantly lighter skinned than those living in the Southern/equatorial regions. It would be hard for anyone to argue that this is not according to God's arrangement as it relates to bible prophecy.
Spoken like a true racist. How dark does one have to be to be dark in your book?
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:30 PM   #1658
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Or a "Christian" madman that wants a theocracy, and says God's law trumps our constitution.
Does not God's law supersede our constitution? It should. God's law says murder is wrong, but supposedly our constitution gives mothers the "right" to murder the helpless unborn.

You ca't have it both ways. You who love globalism and the one world gov't, don't you realize that only our Constution stands in the way.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:36 PM   #1659
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One can only wish. "My way or the highway" has done us absolutely no good for the past 25+ years.

In fact, since virtually all of the John McCains of Congress have been swept from office, we have gridlock instead of action. Hardliners of both parties may influence where things go, but it was the coalition builders that got it done. There have been only a few brief periods in my life in which the House, Senate, and Presidency were firmly on the same page. The rest of the time was either chaos or it had consensus builders among them to get something done.

Seldom to everyone's liking.

But still better than doing nothing.
I prefer gridlock in congress. Everything they do seems to make things worse for us. Change is not a good thing. Unfortunately, however, the judicial and executive branches then overstep their authority.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:32 PM   #1660
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Spoken like a true racist. How dark does one have to be to be dark in your book?
Race is race, there's nothing racist about discussing race as it relates to bible prophecy. God made race. Satan tries to pretend race doesn't exist, just as Satan pretends gender doesn't exist, which is the basis of these neutral gender programs and such. It's also important to note that race in a biblical sense is not color or genetics, but culture.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:47 PM   #1661
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Race is race, there's nothing racist about discussing race as it relates to bible prophecy. God made race. Satan tries to pretend race doesn't exist, just as Satan pretends gender doesn't exist, which is the basis of these neutral gender programs and such. It's also important to note that race in a biblical sense is not color or genetics, but culture.
Wait...what? You're the one who related race to color and genetics with your "nations of dark people" and "Indians are descended from Kush". First "race is race" then "race is culture". That's a laughable contradiction. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.


Now you bring in . Show me how is more than a personification of evil like Aphrodite is personification of love. Then show me where in the Bible it says that pretends race and gender don't exist. Or do you just make stuff up about to support your shape-shifting ideology as you go along?
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Old 09-30-2017, 01:39 AM   #1662
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Wait...what? You're the one who related race to color and genetics with your "nations of dark people" and "Indians are descended from Kush". First "race is race" then "race is culture". That's a laughable contradiction. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.


Now you bring in . Show me how is more than a personification of evil like Aphrodite is personification of love. Then show me where in the Bible it says that pretends race and gender don't exist. Or do you just make stuff up about to support your shape-shifting ideology as you go along?
You drew the connection between skin color and race, not me. You brought up the topic of race in your post #1639. My first post on the topic of dark people did not refer to race at all. Skin color is not race, skin color is a trait. Race is more to do with culture, and biologically speaking race has no meaning.

The fact that you brought up the topic of race when I referred to dark people proves that you are the racist as you associate certain races with certain skin colors.
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Old 09-30-2017, 02:22 AM   #1663
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India like other nations of dark people dont feature in bible prophecy because of the whole ham and kush thing. The Indians are descended from Kush or Ku****es. In India is the Hindu Kush mountains.

I think they will join or follow one of the other great nations...or be destroyed somehow. In short.. the bible overlooks dark people.
Quote:
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You drew the connection between skin color and race, not me. You brought up the topic of race in your post #1639. My first post on the topic of dark people did not refer to race at all. Skin color is not race, skin color is a trait. Race is more to do with culture, and biologically speaking race has no meaning.

The fact that you brought up the topic of race when I referred to dark people proves that you are the racist as you associate certain races with certain skin colors.
So then "nations of dark people" does not refer to race? Race refers to "culture", its not genetics. But this "whole ham and Kush thing" that is not referring to race, to culture, but rather to a "trait"? I am unable to follow this explanation.
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Old 09-30-2017, 05:49 AM   #1664
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Does not God's law supersede our constitution? It should. God's law says murder is wrong, but supposedly our constitution gives mothers the "right" to murder the helpless unborn.

You ca't have it both ways.
So you want a theocracy?

Okay, but what is God's law? You mention murder, aka Exodus 20. But let's ignore the next few chapters of Exodus, where God's law speaks of killing all sorts of people, and stoning's. (Let's also ignore that God drowned the whole human race but a handful ... even babies and pre-born's).

Then we have a change in God's law with the adulterous woman. God's law isn't very well defined, and it's not democratic. History shows the results of theocracies, and of those following God's law. It's not pretty.

Perhaps you like Roy Rogers because he's a Christian, and don't care if he's the Westboro Baptist type.

Do you agree with God's law according to the Westboro Baptists?
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Old 09-30-2017, 06:37 AM   #1665
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My approach to bible prophecy is to follow the Generations of Noah and consider the significance of that as related to the nations which will be around during the end times. I find this to be a more robust approach than merely cherry picking verses and trying to figure out how they fit into the bigger picture. It's like trying to complete a jig saw puzzle piece by piece. The Generations of Noah gives us a complete picture of what the "jig saw puzzle" looks like and then we can relate the verses.

We can say confidently that whatever is described concerning Noahs sons will also apply in the end times. This is because of God's order, sovereignty and arrangement. If the bible says God blesses one of Noah's sons, then that nation that is derived from that son will be blessed in the future. Similarly, a nation said to be cursed, like Cush, will not be blessed over time. Cush was a sub-Saharan African and upon whom the curse of Ham fell. Is it only coincidence that nations coming from Cush are not blessed today as much as the sons of Japheth (Western nations)? As Jeremiah 13:23 says - can a Cush ite change his skin?

It's a sign of the PC times I guess that whenever a person's skin color is mentioned then it automatically must mean racism. To clarify my statement about dark people, I do not believe the bible is racist, as it does not attribute skin color as a cause. But generally speaking it does refer to skin color as a consequence. Skin color and health is related, for example we say a person can "turn green with envy", "blue in the face" etc. Color of the skin is not a cause, but a consequence. In other words, the bible does not "overlook" nations of dark people in bible prophecy just because they are dark, but because of what that darkness represented and how it came about. Of greater significance, is the spiritual darkness that is present in Africa and India, that is darker than most other nations with their worship of demons and other evil things.

We can say that God's blessing is not on these nations and for this reason they have not achieved greatness in order to feature significantly in end times events. I can say fairly confidently that no nation that is predominantly comprised of dark people, features significantly (as significantly as USA, Russia, China etc) in bible prophecy. Anyone can check these facts for themselves.

Dark nations in general are covered by Isaiah 18 and any other references to Cush in the Bible. This includes India who are descended from Cush and possibly Shem and Put as well. They are obviously involved but are not major players in end times events.

It is also no coincidence that India is South of Israeli and Russia (kingdom of the North, or Magog). Just as Ethiopia , Egypt etc were South of the ancient Magog. Possibly the exact location of each nation is God's arrangement such that end times prophecy can be fulfilled. God arranged the tectonic plates such that certain nations would reside north, south, east and west of Israel.

To put this another way, if India was located in the region of Iceland, it would be hard to see how the bible prophesy concerning Northern and Southern kingdoms could be true. It is likely significant that there are no nations of dark skinned people in Northern latitudes today or in the end times. Even nature tells us that animals, such as arctic wolves and polar bears that live in high latitudes are white, not black. It would be strange for us to see a polar bear living in Africa or India. But God has ordained these types of animals to live in certain parts of the world.

I could put this another way - in the end times there will be no African or Indian superpower to revival the power of the USA, Russia, China that plays a major role in end times events concerning Israel. The strongest kingdoms are the Northern ones - USA, Russia, China, which all exist at Northern latitudes. These nations are also predominantly lighter skinned than those living in the Southern/equatorial regions. It would be hard for anyone to argue that this is not according to God's arrangement as it relates to bible prophecy.
Goodness bro EvanG, as they say, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

I won't even begin to unpack this nonsense. You are sadly to far out there to be reached with a lifeline.

The next thing you'll be telling us is that The Recovery will bring the Lord back. Is it time to bring up the Cargo Cult's again?
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:10 AM   #1666
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You drew the connection between skin color and race, not me. You brought up the topic of race in your post #1639. My first post on the topic of dark people did not refer to race at all. Skin color is not race, skin color is a trait. Race is more to do with culture, and biologically speaking race has no meaning.

The fact that you brought up the topic of race when I referred to dark people proves that you are the racist as you associate certain races with certain skin colors.

Post #1639 was a question in response to your statement "the bible overlooks dark people". You're talking in circles.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:17 AM   #1667
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You drew the connection between skin color and race, not me. You brought up the topic of race in your post #1639. My first post on the topic of dark people did not refer to race at all. Skin color is not race, skin color is a trait. Race is more to do with culture, and biologically speaking race has no meaning.

The fact that you brought up the topic of race when I referred to dark people proves that you are the racist as you associate certain races with certain skin colors.
I notice you make no attempt to defend your statements about the devil. That was smart, cuz' the belief in the devil is rationally indefensible. The devil was obviously invented to take God off the hook for the problem of evil which we proved beyond a reasonable doubt on the problem of evil thread.
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:08 AM   #1668
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I notice you make no attempt to defend your statements about the devil. That was smart, cuz' the belief in the devil is rationally indefensible. The devil was obviously invented to take God off the hook for the problem of evil which we proved beyond a reasonable doubt on the problem of evil thread.
So the devil - lucifer - satan - enemy - was just a human fabrication to protect man's imaginary view of God?

And that was all proven on the POE thread?

And someone said that EvanG needs a lifeline?
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:34 AM   #1669
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So the devil - lucifer - satan - enemy - was just a human fabrication to protect man's imaginary view of God?

And that was all proven on the POE thread?

And someone said that EvanG needs a lifeline?
LOL. Right on, bro!
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:28 PM   #1670
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I notice you make no attempt to defend your statements about the devil. That was smart, cuz' the belief in the devil is rationally indefensible. The devil was obviously invented to take God off the hook for the problem of evil which we proved beyond a reasonable doubt on the problem of evil thread.
The devil is also handy to justify killing others : "They're of the devil." Like was said of the Native American Indians : "Look at them dancing around the fire. They're clearly of the devil. So we can kill them -- have to kill them out of loyalty to God -- and take their lands and resources, and their women."

Just like the Hebrews did to the Midianites in Numbers 31, where God tells them kill those evil devils, but keep the over 30,000 virgins. Yea God!!!
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:54 PM   #1671
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As usual on this forum I am the one arguing from the basis of facts.

The facts are no dark skinned nations feature strongly in biblical prophecy.
This is despite the fact that in the year 2100 the worlds population will be mostly dark skinned.

ZNP's post implicitly confirms this:

Also, the US is the greatest nation on earth when you compare us with Germany, Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Switzerland, Luxembourg, etc.

None of these nations mentioned are descended from Cush.
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Old 09-30-2017, 05:33 PM   #1672
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As usual on this forum I am the one arguing from the basis of facts.

The facts are no dark skinned nations feature strongly in biblical prophecy.
This is despite the fact that in the year 2100 the worlds population will be mostly dark skinned.
The US is a nation of immigrants, unless of course you are referring to native Americans. When the NT refers to the "great" Eagle it is in contrast to other eagles like Mexico. So by extension that term is not merely referring to the US but also to Mexico. So then when you look at the most prominent nations in the Bible you have red, yellow, brown, a melting pot, and of course the most prominent one of all is Middle eastern. That is not to say that Egypt and Ethiopia are not also prominently mentioned as well.

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ZNP's post implicitly confirms this:

Also, the US is the greatest nation on earth when you compare us with Germany, Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Switzerland, Luxembourg, etc.

None of these nations mentioned are descended from Cush.
You have taken this quote out of context. I was responding to Ohio who referred to the US as the "greatest nation". My point was that the US is on equal footing with a united Europe. Also, I do not see the term "the great eagle" meaning we are "great" but rather it distinguishes the US from other countries that use the Eagle as their national symbol, like Mexico.

The US, unlike Europe, Russia and China is not "descended" from anything, it was formed based on certain principles that I would argue are in themselves based on the NT. It is a country of immigrants. I use that term in as broad a sense as Ben Carson, including immigrants that came to the US in slave ships against their will. So in this sense we represent the people from the entire planet.

Also, it is relatively clear that the NT refers to the UN.

So if you want to argue the facts the Biblical prophecies include every nation from the four corners of the earth, every race, every tongue, every nation.
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Old 09-30-2017, 06:59 PM   #1673
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So the devil - lucifer - satan - enemy - was just a human fabrication to protect man's imaginary view of God?
That's a difficult question. The devil as we know him, as a personification of a independent evil deity, burst upon the scene a couple of hundred years before Jesus, with the book of Enoch. The authors of Enoch had a vivid imagination, so yes, in that case, Satan was a human fabrication.

Then, picking up from Enoch, the gospels pit the devil and Jesus against each other, and the devil is depicted there as a real living person, bargaining with Jesus in the wilderness against God ... not an agent of God, as in the OT.

Thereafter the devil gets blamed for all the bad things, and God is let off the hook.

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And that was all proven on the POE thread?
I thought it was proven that the problem of evil fell into God's lap.

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And someone said that EvanG needs a lifeline?
Well his answer to how the Bible isn't concerned about the darkies was so out there that it looks like a lifeline can't reach him. Maybe we can send a rescue boat ... if he doesn't drown in his delusions first.
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Old 09-30-2017, 09:54 PM   #1674
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The US is a nation of immigrants, unless of course you are referring to native Americans. When the NT refers to the "great" Eagle it is in contrast to other eagles like Mexico. So by extension that term is not merely referring to the US but also to Mexico. So then when you look at the most prominent nations in the Bible you have red, yellow, brown, a melting pot, and of course the most prominent one of all is Middle eastern. That is not to say that Egypt and Ethiopia are not also prominently mentioned as well.



You have taken this quote out of context. I was responding to Ohio who referred to the US as the "greatest nation". My point was that the US is on equal footing with a united Europe. Also, I do not see the term "the great eagle" meaning we are "great" but rather it distinguishes the US from other countries that use the Eagle as their national symbol, like Mexico.

The US, unlike Europe, Russia and China is not "descended" from anything, it was formed based on certain principles that I would argue are in themselves based on the NT. It is a country of immigrants. I use that term in as broad a sense as Ben Carson, including immigrants that came to the US in slave ships against their will. So in this sense we represent the people from the entire planet.

Also, it is relatively clear that the NT refers to the UN.

So if you want to argue the facts the Biblical prophecies include every nation from the four corners of the earth, every race, every tongue, every nation.

India is a nation of population 1.3 billion and the US by comparison is a tiny 350 million (approximately).

Why doesn't India, one of the most populous nations in the world (and even more by the time Jesus returns) feature in biblical prophecy as a great nation?

Why does the Eagle have to represent America? The greatest nation symbolized by the Eagle could be India. Eagle could refer to the Garuda in Hinduism, and given India is of much larger population than the US, the great nation represented by the Eagle could be India, not the US.
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Old 10-01-2017, 04:58 AM   #1675
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India is a nation of population 1.3 billion and the US by comparison is a tiny 350 million (approximately).

Why doesn't India, one of the most populous nations in the world (and even more by the time Jesus returns) feature in biblical prophecy as a great nation?

Why does the Eagle have to represent America? The greatest nation symbolized by the Eagle could be India. Eagle could refer to the Garuda in Hinduism, and given India is of much larger population than the US, the great nation represented by the Eagle could be India, not the US.
From all I have read, liberals like you dont think America is great, rather the blight of the world, the root of every evil, the cause of all problems, the cancer of the whole world.

My have you changed your attitude!
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:04 AM   #1676
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That's a difficult question. The devil as we know him, as a personification of a independent evil deity, burst upon the scene a couple of hundred years before Jesus, with the book of Enoch. The authors of Enoch had a vivid imagination, so yes, in that case, Satan was a human fabrication.

Then, picking up from Enoch, the gospels pit the devil and Jesus against each other, and the devil is depicted there as a real living person, bargaining with Jesus in the wilderness against God ... not an agent of God, as in the OT.

Thereafter the devil gets blamed for all the bad things, and God is let off the hook.


I thought it was proven that the problem of evil fell into God's lap.
The POE thread PROVED something?!?

The devil burst upon the scene in the book of Enoch?!?

Too funny. This place is crazy town.
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Old 10-01-2017, 06:16 AM   #1677
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The POE thread PROVED something?!?

The devil burst upon the scene in the book of Enoch?!?

Too funny. This place is crazy town.
Literally rotflmao. Having trouble typing ... tears rolling. I guess you liked my little ditty on the Satan.

I typed it with love ... after reading all that crap about the devil over the years (and watching the movie Noah(2014)). If you haven't read the book of Enoch, you should. The canon quotes it. It's on the web, or I could send you a digital copy. Just ask.

And talk to Dancing (RIP - she's no longer with us on LCD) and get the OT Jewish take on the devil. He's not very personified as an independent evil deity there. He's an agent of God, and "the satan” (as he is termed in the OT) is a member of God’s heavenly council.

The devil had to pass thru the ages of the book of Enoch to break free from God to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. Maybe by then he grew up, left home (heaven), and became an independent agent ... to tempt Jesus ... so God wouldn't get the blame for doing it.
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Old 10-01-2017, 02:50 PM   #1678
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From all I have read, liberals like you dont think America is great, rather the blight of the world, the root of every evil, the cause of all problems, the cancer of the whole world.

My have you changed your attitude!
My post regarding the nations in the end times is not motivated by politics, but simple observations:

India is greater than the US (in terms of population size).

Why India is not in the bible?

One plausible reason is because they are descendants of Cush (which means black). I have discovered that descendants of Cush do not really feature in biblical prophecy.

I mean when was the last time you heard a story of biblical prophecy concerning India, the "great Eagle" (or great Garuda in Hinduism).

There are some other ways India is better than the USA, a number are listed here:

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-in...than-the-u-s-a
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:18 PM   #1679
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India is a nation of population 1.3 billion and the US by comparison is a tiny 350 million (approximately).

Why doesn't India, one of the most populous nations in the world (and even more by the time Jesus returns) feature in biblical prophecy as a great nation?

Why does the Eagle have to represent America? The greatest nation symbolized by the Eagle could be India. Eagle could refer to the Garuda in Hinduism, and given India is of much larger population than the US, the great nation represented by the Eagle could be India, not the US.
Are you saying that you think the reference to the "great eagle" in the NT is referring to India? Or are you asking why it doesn't?

As to featuring into prophecy, the reformed Roman Empire (Europe) features into more prophecies than any other nation. They have the Beast and they have the AntiChrist. Likewise the prophecies for Gog and Magog are equally unflattering. So it seems to me that not being featured in the end times prophecies is not some kind of blight on your reputation but contrariwise.
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:46 AM   #1680
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50+ innocent people die by automatic rifle. 200+ wounded. If past is precedent, NRA owned Congress will do nothing.
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:02 AM   #1681
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"Big water"? Concrete thinking. One more sign of incipient dementia. "Forgets names and events. Is occasionally lost. Decisions are hard to make. May realize that they are forgetful. Accuses others of actions. May be angry, irritable, demanding and/or stubborn." Time to implement Constitutional Amendment 25 before it's too late.
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:36 AM   #1682
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50+ innocent people die by automatic rifle. 200+ wounded. If past is precedent, NRA owned Congress will do nothing.
Big lawsuit -- the Casinos wanted this on the strip to promote their businesses, but in so doing they created a kill box. Should have had the foresight to carefully check out all the overlooking apartments.

Great case for neglect. Surely someone could have foreseen a person with a grudge. This guy had a lawsuit against the casino and settled. Wouldn't take a genius to figure out that his location in that apartment was something to check out.

I imagine there are lawyers right now lining up a class action suit. Who says the "casino always wins".
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:39 AM   #1683
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"Big water"? Concrete thinking. One more sign of incipient dementia. "Forgets names and events. Is occasionally lost. Decisions are hard to make. May realize that they are forgetful. Accuses others of actions. May be angry, irritable, demanding and/or stubborn." Time to implement Constitutional Amendment 25 before it's too late.
Big supporter of Pence I take it.
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:13 PM   #1684
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Big lawsuit -- the Casinos wanted this on the strip to promote their businesses, but in so doing they created a kill box. Should have had the foresight to carefully check out all the overlooking apartments.

Great case for neglect. Surely someone could have foreseen a person with a grudge. This guy had a lawsuit against the casino and settled. Wouldn't take a genius to figure out that his location in that apartment was something to check out.

I imagine there are lawyers right now lining up a class action suit. Who says the "casino always wins".
It's more fake news like Sandy Hook so Obama can take away our guns
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:47 PM   #1685
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Are you saying that you think the reference to the "great eagle" in the NT is referring to India? Or are you asking why it doesn't?

As to featuring into prophecy, the reformed Roman Empire (Europe) features into more prophecies than any other nation. They have the Beast and they have the AntiChrist. Likewise the prophecies for Gog and Magog are equally unflattering. So it seems to me that not being featured in the end times prophecies is not some kind of blight on your reputation but contrariwise.

Good thought re roman empire. I think the great eagle must be Germany not the US. They are the strongest reformed roman Empire and have the history of Anti semitism. The eagle has also been their symbol for hundreds of years.
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:33 PM   #1686
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Good thought re roman empire. I think the great eagle must be Germany not the US. They are the strongest reformed roman Empire and have the history of Anti semitism. The eagle has also been their symbol for hundreds of years.
Germany has been defeated twice by the US in war, yet Germany is "the Great Eagle"? Why? In what sense are they "great" compared to the US?

Why would Germany be referred to as "the wilderness".

Why would those fleeing the Middle East take the wings of the Great Eagle to the wilderness? You don't need to fly by plane to Germany and trains would probably move more people quicker and easier.

If you agree that there are prophecies concerning Europe being reformed then wouldn't Germany be part of that group?

If you don't agree then there are at least 5 or 6 very difficult questions to answer about other prophecies.
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:50 PM   #1687
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It's more fake news like Sandy Hook so Obama can take away our guns
The FBI said he had no ISIS affiliation therefore this is an American terrorist.
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:58 PM   #1688
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Germany has been defeated twice by the US in war, yet Germany is "the Great Eagle"? Why? In what sense are they "great" compared to the US?

Why would Germany be referred to as "the wilderness".

Why would those fleeing the Middle East take the wings of the Great Eagle to the wilderness? You don't need to fly by plane to Germany and trains would probably move more people quicker and easier.

If you agree that there are prophecies concerning Europe being reformed then wouldn't Germany be part of that group?

If you don't agree then there are at least 5 or 6 very difficult questions to answer about other prophecies.
Just other possibilities referring to Eagles. The verse in question is probably misinterpreted anyway as it says the woman is given wings like those of an eagle. It doesn't actually say the woman is going to a place symbolized by an eagle. The eagle is the woman, not the USA, Germany, or India.
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:09 PM   #1689
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The FBI said he had no ISIS affiliation therefore this is an American terrorist.
I would have thought you'd see the irony.
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:13 PM   #1690
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Just other possibilities referring to Eagles. The verse in question is probably misinterpreted anyway as it says the woman is given wings like those of an eagle. It doesn't actually say the woman is going to a place symbolized by an eagle. The eagle is the woman, not the USA, Germany, or India.
The woman is the great eagle? Who are the minor eagles? Germany, US, and Mexico? Then wouldn't the woman be a nation and not signify God's people?
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:14 PM   #1691
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