Kisstheson - Words from my Heart

[kisstheson]

Dear ones,

My only burden for this blog is to simply share with everyone those things that have really touched me, including special words I have read or heard and special experiences I have experienced.

As of the present moment, I am finding a great deal of encouragement in the ministries of two precious brothers whom I greatly admire - Oswald Chambers (1874-1917), and Dietrich Bonhoeffer (1906-1945). To my rational mind, both died too young. Both could have really given our brother Witness Lee a run for his money in the latter part of the twentieth century! Our dear heavenly Father, however, knows best, and He does all things well. He knows why He took them home early.

Here is a very touching excerpt from dear brother Bonhoeffer's book Life Together, in a section entitled "Intercession":

"A Christian fellowship lives and exists by the intercession of its members for one another, or it collapses. I can no longer condemn or hate a brother for whom I pray, no matter how much trouble he causes me. His face, that hitherto may have been strange and intolerable to me, is transformed in intercession into the countenance of a brother for whom Christ died, the face of a forgiven sinner. This is the happy discovery for the Christian who begins to pray for others . . .

How does this happen? Intercession means no more than to bring our brother into the presence of God, to see him under the Cross of Jesus as a poor human being and sinner in need of grace. Then everything in him that repels us falls away; we see him in all his destitution and need. His need and his sin become so heavy and oppressive that we feel them as our own, and we can do nothing else but pray: 'Lord, do Thou, Thou alone, deal with him according to Thy severity and Thy goodness.' To make intercession means to grant our brother the same right that we have received, namely, to stand before Chirst and share in His mercy."

[cityonahill]

great quote! thanks KTS...it is a great reminder to pick up one another as we are running this race together...

[kisstheson]

Hello dear ones, beloved of God,

My dear sister/wife and I are still processing all that we heard and experienced during the Conference in Raleigh, NC, this past weekend. This was a very significant event for us, as it completed the “third leg” of our seeking journey which began when we were called to leave the LC back in January of 2007. Allow me to briefly explain.

The “first leg” of our seeking journey actually took place while we were still in the LC. We were hearing things and experiencing things that our consciences told us were not of the Lord, yet we ignored these inner stirrings from the Lord for many years. Eventually, we came to realize that the voice of the One who was troubling us was the very voice of our Beloved, our Good Shepherd. The problem was, how could we ever leave the LC? We had heard the dire warnings regarding the terrible fate which overtakes all those who leave. Very much confused, we put this matter before the Lord. We told Him that we needed to hear from some who had left the LC and were going on with the Lord in a very positive way. We do not know of any such cases, but we asked the Lord to bring some examples to our attention. At this point in time we were very troubled and I would even say very discouraged, as we came to firmly believe that something was terribly wrong with us that was not wrong with any of the other saints. Perhaps an incurable “leprosy” had already come upon us, from which the Lord would not cure us. Perhaps a terrible, slow, lingering death was to be our fate, since we had harbored secret doubts in our hearts concerning “God’s best”. Perhaps we had already been pruned off the vine and cast into the fire. Surely we were guilty and surely such a fate is what we deserved. I know it sounds rather dramatic, but it is hard to capture the constant fear, the utter sense of despair, and the feeling of being completely forsaken by the Lord which we lived with for so long.

That is where “the other discussion forum” was such a life-saver to us. Once we came across that discussion forum (quite by accident actually, at least according to the outward appearances), we found that which we never thought we would find – the actual testimonies of many dear ones who had left the LC and who still loved the Lord and were still walking with the Lord. This discovery was greatly used by our dear Lord to strengthen us for our journey out of the LC.

The “second leg” of our seeking journey involved the following questions: We now knew that some had left the LC and were walking in an intimate, loving, relationship with Jesus Christ, but what about ministry? Wasn’t the LC the only place where “rich ministry” could be found? Weren’t these dear ones outside the LC starving because they were trying to survive on “husks”? Again, we put this matter before the Lord, and again He came through in a way which exceeded all our expectations! The dear ones on “the other forum” began to mention and post links to other ministries. We followed up on each and every mention, and before we knew it, we had more “rich ministry” to partake of then we could handle in ten lifetimes: TAS, Ian Thomas, Titus Chu and the dear brothers in the GLA, Stephen Kaung and the dear brothers serving with him, Basilea Schlink, Bakht Singh, Jane Anderson, Neil Anderson, F.F. Bruce, Richard Rohr – just to name some who are/were contemporary with Witness Lee. Along with these, we rediscovered many gems from the past – Andrew Murray, Johann Arndt, Jacob Boehme, F.B. Meyer, Hannah Whitall-Smith, A.W. Pink, C.A. Coates, C.H. Mackintosh, Oswald Chambers, Dietrich Bonhoeffer – to name a few. Wow! We were definitely not surviving on “husks”! By partaking of the spirit of all these other dear ministers of Christ, we were able to place WL in a much more balanced historical context compared to the view we held of WL in the LC. We were able to appreciate that WL was only one of many ministers of Christ whom our dear Lord had given to His Body to equip the members so that the Body may build itself up in love.

The “third leg” of our seeking journey was very much completed this past weekend in Raleigh. We knew of many dear ones who had left the LC and were going on with the Lord, and we knew for a fact that there was much “rich ministry” outside the LC. But what about all those dear assemblies which had left the LC in a corporate way? What had happened to all of them? Could Christ’s beautiful Bride, the vision of whom had so captured us all those years ago, still be seen in these assemblies? Was it really possible that these assemblies were full of functioning members under the headship of Christ? Were these places where our Lord was still “walking in the midst of the golden lampstands”? Were these places where Jesus was again walking the earth in humbleness, meekness, love and compassion?

We admit it. We went to Raleigh on a “spy mission”. We certainly honor the leadings which all of us have followed since leaving the LC. Personally, we have been very blessed in a sweet “home church”. But the idea of “checking out” one of the assemblies which had left the LC would not leave us alone. For some unknown reason, the Lord was really bothering us regarding this matter. Could it be true that some had actually taken the best of what the LC offered, leaving behind what was not profitable, and continued to meet together, seeking the Lord for new and fresh leading? We had to find out! To our amazement, we found out during our time in Raleigh that such a thing had indeed taken place in many localities! The spirit of receiving one another in Christ and spontaneous oneness in Christ was clearly visible. Genuine brotherly love was shown to everyone. All of the speaking and testifying was so refreshing and so full of words of grace and encouragement. Honor was shown to all members, not just to the leading ones. Needless to say, we were very touched and I have to testify that the Lord did a deep inward recalibration work in us. What will be the end result of all this, we do not know at the present time. We are convinced that He will continue to supply us with our daily portions of grace so that we will be able to trust Him one day at a time.

[aron]

Originally Posted by kisstheson

We admit it. We went to Raleigh on a “spy mission”. We certainly honor the leadings which all of us have followed since leaving the LC. Personally, we have been very blessed in a sweet “home church”. But the idea of “checking out” one of the assemblies which had left the LC would not leave us alone. For some unknown reason, the Lord was really bothering us regarding this matter.

Interesting; God's call is to the 'curious' ones. "And Moses turned aside to see..." (Exod. 3:4). " 'Master, where are You staying?' 'Come and see' " (John 1:38,39).

At one point I myself heard of the 'saints' in the 'local churches', and I turned aside to see. This prompted a lengthy, for me anyway, sojourn there. But eventually I was curious to see what was happening with the rest of the christian flock so I continued my journey.

Now, the 'stay-put' folks might say I was enticed by the serpent, as Eve was, to look away toward forbidden fruit. They might think that 'curiosity' is a sin, and prelude to the falling away. In one sense, they are right. My curiosity about what I am doing here on this planet has been satisfied. Jesus Christ is the answer. There is none other for me. Jesus satisfies me completely. He is the Chosen One from God. There is no other, and as a christian, by definition, I must say there can be no other for me.

But where my Master may lead, while I yet remain on the earth, remains a mystery, and I must continue to exercise myself to hear His voice. I believe the flock has a mysterious and hidden journey, and over time it has become harder to submit myself to those with an "edifice complex", who strive to build museums to the faith. I cannot judge another's servant, but at the same time it seems more profitable to me to hear the still, small inner voice, and continue the journey.

Peace and blessings to you as you continue forward.

[kisstheson]

Amen, dear brother aron. Amen and amen.

Yes, our dear and precious Lord Jesus Christ is the One who satisfies us completely. Yes, He is the only One for me as well.

How wonderful it is to gather with other redeemed ones and simply focus on Him! Just Him - sweet, beautiful, lovely Him! O Jesus, You alone have captured our hearts. O Jesus, Shining One, cause us to lose sight of all but You. O Jesus, draw us and keep us so close and so intimate with You. O Jesus, do continue to speak to us of the deepest longings in Your heart. O Jesus, how we long for that day when all of us will be just like You!

Lord Jesus, how we love You! We love You, we love You, we love You!

[aron]

Originally Posted by kisstheson

Yes, our dear and precious Lord Jesus Christ is the One who satisfies us completely. Yes, He is the only One for me as well.

As I said earlier, as christians, by definition, we are those for whom the search has ended. Jesus is our Answer from God, unequivocal and irreplaceable. My analogy is when I fell in love, and shortly thereafter one of my friends came up and told me "aron, I've got a girl for you. She's this and that, and such and so forth, etc", and I simply replied "No, thanks". Maybe this one was all that was being described, and more. But I was already taken. I was off the market. I simply wasn't interested in looking away, not for an instant. It was an emotional decision, to love. And by definition it precluded other courses of action previously open to me. Well, Jesus was like this for many of us. We came down from the mountain, "having beheld His glory and majesty (cf 2 Pet 1:16-18)", and we simply could not think of any other reality than with This One in the most prominent place; this Name is now above every name both on earth and in heaven, both now and forevermore amen. Game over, as they say. Peter and John both say this. "We beheld His glory(John 1:14)". Clearly, for us believers, as Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished." He has gained the victory over sin and death and we happily join his victory parade.

But where this "victory parade" may lead us while we yet are in this earthly tabernacle is still a mystery. There is actually no earthly headquarters issuing directives on "God's latest move". No, it's a little voice within, one day at a time, that we follow. Of course, we have the Bible, and we have the fellowship, but ultimately it is a mysterious voice that calls us so unexpectedly.

Secondly, I have come to realize that the "Christ and the church" rubric of the LC's is in error. No, for the christian it is Christ alone. We are the church, and yes, Christ loves the church, but our job as the church is to love Christ alone. Yes, we love our fellows as well, clearly, but to love "the church" is the province of the bridegroom; only His love is vast enough for the job. Our job is to love God and our neighbor. Let God take the "universal church" on. If we presume to do so we overstep our bounds: we fail miserably at best (being weak and partly blind), and at worst(if we are the "strong" type) we create an organizational monstrosity that we call "the church", and we are as pleased with ourselves as little Jack Horner in his corner with his christmas pie. We are, as djohnson points out, merely "little children playing church in our sandbox". The inevitable fights and name-calling and "turf wars" I think bear out this conclusion.

So -- love God and love the person next to you and let God worry about the "feeling in the Body", and "God's latest move", and so forth (of course, kts, you may know and live all this better than I; I just felt like appropriating your thread for a moment). Peace & grace to all.

[kisstheson]

Amen, dear brother aron. Amen and amen.

Your testimony about being in love is really wonderful. Yes indeed, we are already "taken", already smitten, by Him! There is no other reality for us besides being with this wonderful One. We happily join His victory parade.

I really appreciate your words. Even if I did already know and live all that you said (and I don't, believe me!), it is so good to be reminded.

Please feel free to appropriate my thread any time you want.

[kisstheson]

Hello dear ones, beloved of God,

I posted this over at "the other forum" five days ago, but I wanted to include this post over here in my blog as well. Please forgive me if you have already read this over at "the other fourm".

My family and I were very privileged to be able to attend this year’s “Christian Family Conference” held at Longwood University in Farmville, VA. This is an annual conference hosted by various assemblies which receive the ministry of dear brother Stephen Kaung and the other ministers of Christ who co-labor with dear brother Kaung. (For the few who do not know, Stephen Kaung, like Witness Lee, is a brother who co-labored with Watchman Nee in Mainland China during the first half of the twentieth century. Stephen Kaung is now 94 years old.)

The general theme of the conference was “Waiting For And Hastening The Return Of The Lord”. (Links to the spoken messages can be found here.) For us, this was a time full of fellowship and full of encouragement. In the large “ministry” meetings, in the smaller prayer and fellowship groups, and in the times of very informal fellowship around a dinner table or in a dormitory lounge, we enjoyed a lot of sweet time together with other dear brothers and sisters in Christ.

This conference was very interesting for us in particular, since one of the last Conferences we attended in the LC was the 2005 Thanksgiving Conference in which the BB’s spoke regarding the Lord’s Return. Using our time in the LC as a background, there were many things which really impressed us about this recent conference with dear brother Kaung and the other brothers:

1. There were eight spoken messages, and brother Kaung only spoke two of those messages. This was not due to brother Kaung’s age – sharing the pulpit has been brother Kaung’s practice for decades. This “Christian Family Conference” is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, of the annual events for the assemblies which receive brother Kaung’s ministry. Just imagine if WL, while he was still alive, had shared his pulpit with other brothers during his major trainings and conferences. Having been in many WL-only trainings and conferences over the years, seeing brother Kaung sharing the speaking with other dear brothers was so refreshing to us.
   
   
2. Not only that, but the other brothers were by no means merely repeating the speaking of brother Kaung. The other brothers were fully free in the Lord to speak based upon their experiences in Christ and based upon the light they had received while diligently laboring over God’s Word. And what marvelous, rich, things they shared! While many of the things they shared could be traced back to WN’s ministry, it really was the simple expounding of the Word that touched all of us the most.
   
   
3. Dear ones - what a book room! We were fully expecting to see the book room only selling books by brother Kaung and CFP’s translated works of WN, similar to the LSM pattern of selling only Lee and their versions of Nee. Were we ever wrong! Yes, Christian Fellowship Publishers’ translations of WN’s speakings were there. And yes, books by brother Kaung were there. But there was so much more – books by TAS, Bakht Singh, G. Campbell Morgan, Andrew Murray, Gerhard Tersteegen, George Mueller, J.N. Darby, various Puritan authors, Madame Guyon, Amy Carmichael, etc., etc. There was a whole table devoted to books by Govett, Panton, Pember, and Lang. There were several tables dedicated to Church History books and many tables full of Christian biographies (My wife bought a biography of Mary Slessor and has been reading me some precious excerpts for the past five days).
   
   
4. O the prices of the books! Christian Testimony Ministry was literally selling all the books at their cost. Dear ones, all the books were incredibly cheap! WN books for either $2 (thinner volumes) or $3 (thicker volumes)! All the books by brother Kaung and the brothers who co-labor with him were priced the same way. Even the books not published by CFP or CTM were priced at cost. I picked up John Saunders’ classic The City of God for only $2 and two volumes by Gerhard Tersteegen for only $3 each. CTM was also sellig MP3 CD’s containing piano music for all the hymns in the new hymnbook Christ in Song. Their price for the CD’s was $1. Every time I paid for some books, I told the dear ones that I felt like I was shopping at a thrift store! They responded that the low prices are CTM’s way of serving the brothers and sisters. How wonderful to see a ministry so eager to serve the brothers and sisters in Christ!
   
   
5. A true spirit of humility and submission to the headship of Christ pervaded the conference. The matter of Laodicea was clearly presented as a warning in the second message and this theme continued throughout the remainder of the messages. These dear ones truly desire to “not think more highly of themselves than they ought”. They are very open to the Lord’s judgment and the Lord’s discipline over them. I can not put into words how much this meant to us. This is the same spirit we saw in Raleigh during our time there over the Memorial Day weekend.

To God be the glory!

[kisstheson]

Dear ones, precious and beloved,

My dear wife and I had a really wonderful experience of fellowship in the Body of Christ earlier this week. Last weekend, we travelled a good distance to a family reunion for my wife’s family. It was really good to see everyone again, including the families of some of my wife’s cousins whom I had never met before. Many in my wife’s family definitely know Christ as their Savior, so there was some good fellowship there. The setting was on a beach and was very beautiful. When we left we were exhausted in body, but very much encouraged and refreshed in spirit.

The best treat of all, however, occurred during our travelling back home. Being so close to the GLA, we just had to stop in and have some face-to-face fellowship with dear brother “Ohio” and his dear wife. I had contacted dear brother Ohio before we left, and to our joy he and his wife had time to fellowship with us.

We met at a family restaurant for dinner. I appreciated that we spent a lot of time fellowshipping about our current pursuing of Christ and our current experiences of corporate life in His Body. As we shared our current experiences, it was inevitable that some very sad details came forth about experiences of families being split in two by the recent “Quarantine”. Dear ones! It is just too heart-rending. To hear of children and parents, brothers and sisters, even spouses, divided against each other over “The Ministry” made me want to break down and cry.

One thing became clear to me – I had always envied the dear ones in the GLA since in many places they had been able to break free from LSM as a group. None of them had to make a solo journey back to the Headship of Christ. In my region, which is very much pro-LSM, my wife and I had no one to join with us in our departure from LSM control. Our situation really was desperate at times. For this, I envied the GLA. Now I see the “flip side” of the GLA’s experience and I see what an incredible price they had to pay. They had to know the agony of losing the fellowship with so many dear ones with whom they had previously been built together, including flesh and blood relatives. What an absolutely terrible thing it is for a group of “workers” to insist that all the dear brothers and sisters take a side and choose which group of “workers” they will receive and which group of “workers” they will reject. Even worse is the way so many innocent dear ones become "collateral damage" when two groups of "workers" split apart.

We ended up staying at the restaurant until they closed. The maitre d’ was flashing the lights to get our attention and get us to leave! We hated to leave, and we gladly received dear brother Ohio’s invitation for further fellowship at their home. I don’t know how to describe it – our time at their home was just so sweet! Here we were, two believers in Christ in the home of two other believers in Christ whom we had never met before, and yet, it seemed like we had known them all over lives! The uniting bond of peace, the oneness of the Spirit, the mutual love in Chirst – all of these were so real.

Dear ones, when we are gathered together into Chirst and open ourselves to fellowship in Him alone and minister Him to one another, how it honors the Lord and how He blesses such gatherings!

[manna-man]

Sounded like a great experience KTS. We all need to have more of those intimate get togethers.

Don Jr.

[kisstheson]

Dear ones, so precious in the sight of God,

It had been a while, but I was recently reintroduced to this beautiful prayer by Richard of Chichester (1197-1253). Of course, part of this prayer is very familiar to many of us since part of this prayer served as the lyrics to a song in the Musical "Godspell".

As far as I can tell from various internet sources, here is the complete text of Richard of Chichester's original prayer (in modern English):

"Thanks be to you, our Lord Jesus Christ,
for all the benefits which you have given us,
for all the pains and insults which you have borne for us.
Most merciful Redeemer, Friend and Brother,
may we know you more clearly,
love you more dearly,
and follow you more nearly,
day by day.
Amen."

[kisstheson]

Hello dear ones, beloved of God,

I can't believe it, but I had actually forgotten about my blog over here at localchurchdiscussions.com! I saw some of the recent marvelous posts by "thisovercomer" and I was stirred up afresh to share on my blog again. How good that we can "incite one another to love and good works"!

I was very touched by a portion from the ministry of Andrew Murray which I received this morning on Facebook. This portion reveals the importance of not be smug and satisfied with the mere knowledge of spiritual things. Knowledge of spiritual things is meant to usher us into a life in the Divine reality. If we remain content and satisfied with lots of knowledge, we miss the very thing which our knowledge was meant to lead us into! Knowledge without reality is hypocrisy.

"If we study God’s word carefully we shall be surprised to find how many things there are which it contrasts with knowing, and what danger there is in knowing without its leading to that which it was meant to produce.

Scripture contrasts knowing and believing. . .

Scripture contrasts knowing and doing . . .

Knowing is contrasted with hearing . . .

Knowing is contrasted with being. . .

And knowing is contrasted with living. . .

The knowledge that occupies and pleases and at length satisfies the mind without day by day leading to the faith, and the actions, and the character, and the true inner life for which God meant it, is the most dangerous of all enemies."

(Excerpted from The Coming Revival, by Andrew Murray , pg. 20)

[aron]

Originally Posted by kisstheson

the importance of not be smug and satisfied with the mere knowledge of spiritual things. Knowledge of spiritual things is meant to usher us into a life in the Divine reality. If we remain content and satisfied with lots of knowledge, we miss the very thing which our knowledge was meant to lead us into! Knowledge without reality is hypocrisy.

I am convinced that the great danger is when we think we know. Then the mystery is ceased, and our quest is over, and we rest ourselves somewhere in the desert short of the promised land.

When we believe into the Lord Jesus Christ, we are initiated into a wondrous journey, the bounds of which we cannot comprehend nor guess. All we know is that we love this One, and we are willing to follow Him moment by moment, and day by day. Everything else is the vast unknown.

And, too, we know the Great Command of following this love: "Love one another".

But beyond knowing this, that God loved me and sent His Son, and now commands me in this perfect love, to find love in and toward others... what do I know?

Like Paul said to the Greeks, "I know nothing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him crucified."

All theological speculation must at last give way, and yield its place to the truth of God's love, which I find in Jesus Christ.

[kisstheson]

Hello dear ones,

Thanks to all of you who have been fellowshipping with me here this past month or so since I have returned. Like some before me (such as dear brother Toledo) I have sadly come to the conclusion that not much usefulness comes out of the discussions here. I am now seeing that the best information out on the Web regarding Witness Lee, the Blended Brothers, and the Local Churches is the well-researched information such as Steve Isitt's web sites, Nigel Tomes' articles, The Thread of Gold, A Future and A Hope, etc. One useful purpose of this forum is to alert us when new articles and books such as the above are available.

Beyond the fellowship with some who have touched the LC and are asking questions, I don't see much value in spending my time here. It is time to really put my tag line into practice "The best criticism of the bad is the practice of the better." Something really precious has been built up between all of us. There is so much else that I feel called of the Lord to get involved with. The fields truly are white for the harvest! So many precious things are happening all around us! For those with the grace and the leading to carry on here, may the Lord richly bless you.

If our paths do not cross again in this present age, I know I will see you all on that glorious day when our Lord and Savior returns and calls us to Himself.

Much grace, peace, and love be with you all. I love you all in Christ.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by kisstheson

Hello dear ones,

Thanks to all of you who have been fellowshipping with me here this past month or so since I have returned. Like some before me (such as dear brother Toledo) I have sadly come to the conclusion that not much usefulness comes out of the discussions here. If our paths do not cross again in this present age, I know I will see you all on that glorious day when our Lord and Savior returns and calls us to Himself.

Much grace, peace, and love be with you all. I love you all in Christ.

I feel exactly as you do but now & then I find myself popping back in..like lately. So if you mount up your wings and fly....Thanks for all you have shared with us. The LORD bless you KTS, keep you and continue to Shine His Face upon you, granting you Peace and the desires of your heart as you delight in Him.

Carol

[manna-man]

Originally Posted by kisstheson

Hello dear ones,

Thanks to all of you who have been fellowshipping with me here this past month or so since I have returned. Like some before me (such as dear brother Toledo) I have sadly come to the conclusion that not much usefulness comes out of the discussions here. I am now seeing that the best information out on the Web regarding Witness Lee, the Blended Brothers, and the Local Churches is the well-researched information such as Steve Isitt's web sites, Nigel Tomes' articles, The Thread of Gold, A Future and A Hope, etc. One useful purpose of this forum is to alert us when new articles and books such as the above are available.

Beyond the fellowship with some who have touched the LC and are asking questions, I don't see much value in spending my time here. It is time to really put my tag line into practice "The best criticism of the bad is the practice of the better." Something really precious has been built up between all of us. There is so much else that I feel called of the Lord to get involved with. The fields truly are white for the harvest! So many precious things are happening all around us! For those with the grace and the leading to carry on here, may the Lord richly bless you.

If our paths do not cross again in this present age, I know I will see you all on that glorious day when our Lord and Savior returns and calls us to Himself.

Much grace, peace, and love be with you all. I love you all in Christ.

May our Gracious Savior abide in you forever dear friend.

I hope this doesn't mean we will not enjoy each other on Skype no longer.

You are a true blessing dear brother!

Don Jr.