Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > Introductions and Testimonies

Introductions and Testimonies Please tell everybody something about yourself. Tell us a little. Tell us a lot. Its up to you!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-29-2018, 08:14 AM   #1
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default My time in the church

I was in the church for 14 years. I came in the church during the Kingdom conference in LA in 1972. I was saved a year prior to that. I met a brother in Torrance where I was living he invited me to the conference. At the time I thought it was great! So much life and love of Christ! With all the saints. After the conference I moved to Phoenix because a new church was starting there and my parents were living in Phoenix too but they weren't Christian. I moved in with the Beck's with another single brother. It was a awesome church life there until 1974 .then the consolidations came and everyone had to move to Anaheim or San Diego. I went to San Diego. It was a big change being uprooted like that. I never had a good feeling about it . it was wrong! The first year and a half in Phoenix was the best time I had in the 14 years I spent in the church. Then in 1976 I left the church in San Diego and after a few months went to Atlanta for 5 years in the church there then to Iowa.But as far back as 1974 I knew inwardly that the blessing of the Lord was leaving the church but you could never discuss it with anyone . I could sense the clergy laity with the leading ones.I read other christian books by saints from the past. I was always aware that a lot of things in the church were not right but like I said who could you tell or talk about it to? By 1986 I was so sick of it I left for good!! I became worldly for many years.but the Lord Jesus never left me. I'm back with Jesus and have the sweetness of His love. Our fellowship is with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ! Amen
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 09:56 AM   #2
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 10,679
Default Re: My time in the church

Welcome JB482! Thanks for sharing your story.

It's truly amazing to see how a church which prides itself on being "LOCAL" could endure more manipulation from headquarters than any denomination.

And once again you have confirmed that the blessings from the Head would wane with every ministry mandate.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

.
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 10:21 AM   #3
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

I enjoy reading all the posts. It can be bittersweet but healing too.
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 11:54 AM   #4
countmeworthy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,176
Default Re: My time in the church

Hey!
I think I remember you. I was in San Diego from 1975-1978. My name is Carol. I stay in touch with Bob Bird who lives in Wisconsin now. Darlene and Roger Beck moved back to Phoenix but Roger has passed away. Colleen and Joe Penner also live in Phoenix and are close to Darlene I believe. I do not keep in touch with them though nor do I know how to reach them.

I last visited San Diego in 2005. Boy had it changed. Les And Carolyn were still there. I had a nice visit. Carla And Jim Rodman were there too and Melody and Brian were there as well. I don't think you knew Brian.

A bit of my testimony is in the thread :Why did you leave the LC".
__________________
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
countmeworthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 12:27 PM   #5
countmeworthy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,176
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
... I became worldly for many years.but the Lord Jesus never left me. I'm back with Jesus and have the sweetness of His love. Our fellowship is with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ! Amen
Yes. Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. He began a 'most excellent' in us and He is going to complete it through His Precious Blood and His Holy Spirit.

Paul says "He began a good work in you". I say JESUS began A MOST EXCELLENT WORK in you."

Blessings,
Carol Garza
__________________
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
countmeworthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 03:08 PM   #6
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wedemark, Lower Saxony
Posts: 4,432
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by countmeworthy View Post
Hey!
I think I remember you. I was in San Diego from 1975-1978. .
The thing I remember of San Diego mid-'70s is the music. The song tapes from San Diego were renowned throughout the LC. They had a wall of guitars, going "chunka-chunka-chunka", and then the voices! Tremendous! I still listen to them. Long Beach had the song-writing, but San Diego had the guitar army.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 02:24 AM   #7
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by countmeworthy View Post
Hey!
I think I remember you. I was in San Diego from 1975-1978. My name is Carol. I stay in touch with Bob Bird who lives in Wisconsin now. Darlene and Roger Beck moved back to Phoenix but Roger has passed away. Colleen and Joe Penner also live in Phoenix and are close to Darlene I believe. I do not keep in touch with them though nor do I know how to reach them.

I last visited San Diego in 2005. Boy had it changed. Les And Carolyn were still there. I had a nice visit. Carla And Jim Rodman were there too and Melody and Brian were there as well. I don't think you knew Brian.

A bit of my testimony is in the thread :Why did you leave the LC".
I remember all those saints you mentioned.there are many good memories from that time. I remember the time some of us brothers lived at Ocean Beach for the gospel.
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 02:32 AM   #8
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
The thing I remember of San Diego mid-'70s is the music. The song tapes from San Diego were renowned throughout the LC. They had a wall of guitars, going "chunka-chunka-chunka", and then the voices! Tremendous! I still listen to them. Long Beach had the song-writing, but San Diego had the guitar army.
They did have some great guitar players in San Diego and the singing was awesome. Roger Beck was always involved with it as he cared much for it. He was a precious brother
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 02:53 AM   #9
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
I remember all those saints you mentioned.there are many good memories from that time. I remember the time some of us brothers lived at Ocean Beach for the gospel.
I lived at that brothers house Kim Tooly and his wife had that was across the street from the Navel Training center. And we worked at NTC or MCRD. Huston Sorells is another saint I'll always remember. I can hear him now saying "Praise the Lord brother!
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 03:37 AM   #10
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Lyndol Butler was in San Diego. In fact I remember the first meeting he came to. He was a friend of Ken Short and Dick Ingram I think they were in the Marines together at one time. Anyway years later when I was in the church in Iowa City in Iowa. Lyndol and his wife were living in Cedar Rapids IA because of his job. They were meeting with the saints there. Lyndol is a dear brother . He was treated very bad by some brothers and lies were told about him. It was horrible. That was in 1986. I soon left the local church for good after that. It was getting so dark and evil it made me sick.
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 04:59 AM   #11
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench: He shall bring forth judgement unto truth. Isaiah 42:3
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 05:23 AM   #12
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 10,679
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
Lyndol is a dear brother. He was treated very bad by some brothers and lies were told about him. It was horrible. That was in 1986. I soon left the local church for good after that. It was getting so dark and evil it made me sick.
Back in the mid-80's W. Lee and his son Philip unleashed fleshly ministry zeal throughout the Recovery via his "new way" so-called gospel burden. I saw numerous brothers who formerly "loved the ministry" get beat up by those "absolutely one with the ministry." Leading brothers were no longer evaluated based on maturity, love, fruitfulness, or wisdom in leading the saints, but on blind devotion to Lee and Son and their many destructive programs.

Somehow at the time we were led to believe (the responsibility for this resides with Titus Chu) that the source of all these problems was not Lee himself or his leadership, but with certain of his co-workers. It was truly incredible how deceptive they had become.

Iowa was a battleground state between the Ohio and Texas regions.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

.
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 07:13 AM   #13
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

I agree with your statement,it was very tumultuous indeed.
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 07:42 AM   #14
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wedemark, Lower Saxony
Posts: 4,432
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
I agree with your statement,it was very tumultuous indeed.
The reason for LC's existence was Christian polity being hopelessly confused and divided; we were supposedly bringing "unity" or "oneness". But that oneness was oh so fleeting - eventually we got asked if we were "one" with LSM or Titus, or if we were working with Ohio or with Texas? The LC was only "local" in order to pry the sheep from the denominations, then they set about building an extra-local organization. And it soon fractured in tumult, to no surprise.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 10:02 AM   #15
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
The reason for LC's existence was Christian polity being hopelessly confused and divided; we were supposedly bringing "unity" or "oneness". But that oneness was oh so fleeting - eventually we got asked if we were "one" with LSM or Titus, or if we were working with Ohio or with Texas? The LC was only "local" in order to pry the sheep from the denominations, then they set about building an extra-local organization. And it soon fractured in tumult, to no surprise.
There were times I could relate to Winston in Orwell's 1984
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 10:57 AM   #16
countmeworthy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,176
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
The thing I remember of San Diego mid-'70s is the music. The song tapes from San Diego were renowned throughout the LC. They had a wall of guitars, going "chunka-chunka-chunka", and then the voices! Tremendous! I still listen to them. Long Beach had the song-writing, but San Diego had the guitar army.
WOW!! How 'bout that! I knew San Diego was known as a young people's church as most of the saints were in their early 20s. We had a lot of 'singins" and the psalms were #1 onmy lst followed by the songs in the supplement.

I did not know our guitar group was LC renowned!! chunka-chunka-chunka
__________________
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
countmeworthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 10:59 AM   #17
countmeworthy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,176
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
There were times I could relate to Winston in Orwell's 1984
A bunch of ex LCrs read 'Animal Farm" after we left..and boy could we relate!!!
__________________
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
countmeworthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 11:12 AM   #18
countmeworthy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,176
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
Lyndol Butler was in San Diego. In fact I remember the first meeting he came to. He was a friend of Ken Short and Dick Ingram I think they were in the Marines together at one time. Anyway years later when I was in the church in Iowa City in Iowa. Lyndol and his wife were living in Cedar Rapids IA because of his job. They were meeting with the saints there. Lyndol is a dear brother . He was treated very bad by some brothers and lies were told about him. It was horrible. That was in 1986. I soon left the local church for good after that. It was getting so dark and evil it made me sick.
Lyndol and Karen eventually left the LC but after a few years out, returned to the LC..lots of drama for them returning back..

A Fazio recently started a thread here but has not returned to post. I heard during the 1986 San Diego turmoil, she stood up and voiced her thoughts. But Les Cites told her to shut up and sit down. LOL... good ole feisty A Fazio! She was/is blessed with brilliant intelligence and a sharp spirit.

John Smith recently passed away and Sonia passed away last year I think. They left the LC in the 86 turmoil I believe when John Ingalls left. Willie and Sandy Samoff left the LC in the late 70s too. Max passed away recently too.

Nice to 'see' some old San Diego saints here on the forum. Btw, Kurt Kunkell made a brief stop here many years ago as did Steve Nelson.

Hope you stick around and share more of your journey!

Blessings always.
Carol
__________________
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
countmeworthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 12:47 PM   #19
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wedemark, Lower Saxony
Posts: 4,432
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
There were times I could relate to Winston in Orwell's 1984
One of the worst effects of the LSM thought-suppression programme was to convince us to stop seeking. Like someone stuck in an abusive relationship, we were convinced "there's nothing out there for me", so we put up with continued abusive behaviour, convinced it was our only option. Even though we knew Big Brother was lying, we kept on keepin' on, convinced there was nothing else for us. Keep your head down and your mouth shut. Don't have an opinion. Just smile and say 'amen' to whatever non-biblical nonsense came out.

It's not true. There's a larger Christian conversation happening out there, and it's important that each one of us finds our place in it. God wants to use every "part" to make the "whole". Don't be ashamed of your portion. Mistakes and all, let 'er rip - that's what Peter did. And he didn't lord it over anyone else(1 Peter 5:3; cf Matt 20:25); therefore why shouldn't we all be encouraged to break our chains, and function? Don't let Big Brother keep you down!
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 01:58 PM   #20
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by countmeworthy View Post
Lyndol and Karen eventually left the LC but after a few years out, returned to the LC..lots of drama for them returning back..

A Fazio recently started a thread here but has not returned to post. I heard during the 1986 San Diego turmoil, she stood up and voiced her thoughts. But Les Cites told her to shut up and sit down. LOL... good ole feisty A Fazio! She was/is blessed with brilliant intelligence and a sharp spirit.

John Smith recently passed away and Sonia passed away last year I think. They left the LC in the 86 turmoil I believe when John Ingalls left. Willie and Sandy Samoff left the LC in the late 70s too. Max passed away recently too.

Nice to 'see' some old San Diego saints here on the forum. Btw, Kurt Kunkell made a brief stop here many years ago as did Steve Nelson.

Hope you stick around and share more of your journey!

Blessings always.
Carol
Thanks for sharing the updates on the San Diego saints Carol,somethings I knew but you filled in a lot of blanks for me. When the saints come to mind I always feel the love of our Lord Jesus
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 02:15 PM   #21
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
One of the worst effects of the LSM thought-suppression programme was to convince us to stop seeking. Like someone stuck in an abusive relationship, we were convinced "there's nothing out there for me", so we put up with continued abusive behaviour, convinced it was our only option. Even though we knew Big Brother was lying, we kept on keepin' on, convinced there was nothing else for us. Keep your head down and your mouth shut. Don't have an opinion. Just smile and say 'amen' to whatever non-biblical nonsense came out.

It's not true. There's a larger Christian conversation happening out there, and it's important that each one of us finds our place in it. God wants to use every "part" to make the "whole". Don't be ashamed of your portion. Mistakes and all, let 'er rip - that's what Peter did. And he didn't lord it over anyone else(1 Peter 5:3; cf Matt 20:25); therefore why shouldn't we all be encouraged to break our chains, and function? Don't let Big Brother keep you down!
I appreciate your words aron,every saint has a measure of the gift of Christ and every saint has a portion for the building of His Body
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 03:38 PM   #22
countmeworthy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,176
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
Thanks for sharing the updates on the San Diego saints Carol,somethings I knew but you filled in a lot of blanks for me. When the saints come to mind I always feel the love of our Lord Jesus
Imho, for whatever it's worth..San Diego was for the most part a healthy church compared to the horror stories I have heard about other localities. Not to say we did not have our problems but they were at a minimum or kept from me.

We did have a lot of love..true love for the Lord and towards one another as much as in us was.

Quote:
JB482 wrote:
in 1976 I left the church in San Diego and after a few months went to Atlanta for 5 years in the church there then to Iowa. But as far back as 1974 I knew inwardly that the blessing of the Lord was leaving the church but you could never discuss it with anyone. I could sense the clergy laity with the leading ones. I read other christian books by saints from the past. I was always aware that a lot of things in the church were not right but like I said who could you tell or talk about it to? By 1986 I was so sick of it I left for good!!
Interesting how you sensed as far back as 1974 the blessing was leaving the church. I felt His Presence leaving around 1977. John did a great job imho trying to keep us focused on The Lord Jesus and His Spirit working in us. Other 'elders' kept pointing us to Lee as God's oracle or MOTA. I remember when I refused to call Sunday 'The Lord's day'. It became mandatory. What happened to following the Spirit? Btw.. when I visited San Diego in 2005, they had a new meeting hall and on the front wall was a sign "THE CHURCH IN SAN DIEGO". I do not know why they had a sign up. Was it a requirement by the IRS? or had religion really stepped in?

When I moved back to South Texas, I went to a few LC meetings. I felt like I was on the Phil Donahue show. They had a mic and when a person stood up to 'testify', I mean prophesy, they ran around the audience handing the mic to the person. Then if the person went to long in their sharing, someone would ring a bell. 'TIME'S UP!' LOL!
__________________
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
countmeworthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2018, 12:07 AM   #23
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by countmeworthy View Post
Imho, for whatever it's worth..San Diego was for the most part a healthy church compared to the horror stories I have heard about other localities. Not to say we did not have our problems but they were at a minimum or kept from me.
I agree with you on the church in San Diego not being as chaotic as some other churches. John smith really cared about the saints. He wasn't a cookie cutter cut out. And he was very stable and mature. What made me sense the Lords blessing was leaving in 1974 was uprooting and disrupting those new churches that were formed in the summer of 1972. And the centralization with Anaheim becoming the seat of authority. It was a sadness I felt and I know other saints felt it too. But we have all learned a great deal over the years from everything that happened. Learned things about ourselves and others,and about our Lord Jesus and his faithfulness to us in our weakness and failure. Since I've been on this site local church discussions a lot of sediment has stirred up in my soul which is good,I'm reminded of the good as well the bad,expirences,and how precious Christ and the saints are,and how blessed it is to be part of His purpose
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2018, 07:28 AM   #24
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 10,679
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB482 View Post
I agree with you on the church in San Diego not being as chaotic as some other churches. John smith really cared about the saints. He wasn't a cookie cutter cut out. And he was very stable and mature. What made me sense the Lords blessing was leaving in 1974 was uprooting and disrupting those new churches that were formed in the summer of 1972. And the centralization with Anaheim becoming the seat of authority. It was a sadness I felt and I know other saints felt it too. But we have all learned a great deal over the years from everything that happened.
In January of 1974, W. Lee formalized these changes into an instructional format directing the ministry of all the LC's. That list is quite telling, and was posted here a while back. At its core were the demands of who could minister and what they were allowed to minister -- all based on Lee's teachings.

The clock was thus wound for shepherd leaders like John Smith to depart.

History teaches us that W. Lee never let a crisis go to waste. With each successive chaotic "storm," further regulations were set in place for LSM to take over every LC. What started out as seeking Christians longing for "Christ and the church" was consciously transmuted into zealous Christians sold out for "Lee and his ministry."
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

.
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2018, 09:22 AM   #25
JB482
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 24
Default Re: My time in the church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
In January of 1974, W. Lee formalized these changes into an instructional format directing the ministry of all the LC's. That list is quite telling, and was posted here a while back. At its core were the demands of who could minister and what they were allowed to minister -- all based on Lee's teachings.

The clock was thus wound for shepherd leaders like John Smith to depart.

History teaches us that W. Lee never let a crisis go to waste. With each successive chaotic "storm," further regulations were set in place for LSM to take over every LC. What started out as seeking Christians longing for "Christ and the church" was consciously transmuted into zealous Christians sold out for "Lee and his ministry."
Very true Ohio,I knew from the Lord that He was grieved about the situation,by the pain I felt in my heart. It just took some time to see and understand the devastation of it all. Then the long healing process. Hopefully we are wiser now to such subtleties
JB482 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:17 AM.


3.8.9