Outer Darkness?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Then the question is who is truly rebirthed. I still can't imagine how a regenerated believer truly with God's life in him still act like an unbeliever in the world. I have to take the position that there are only true believers and unbelievers. True (faithful) believers get the reward and unbelievers get the punishment in the end.

There are so many warnings from the apostles to "believers" in the NT. I don't think it is just about missing rewards, it is something much more severe.

I am not saying salvation can be lost, it is more about whether we are truly saved in the first place.

2 Peter 2:20 For if, having escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ but having again been entangled in these, they are defeated, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

This verse in 2nd Peter . . . I think if someone is a defeated Christian, then their state actually is worse in this life (than they were before being saved). They have tasted what is true and have rejected it. Therefore nothing remains for them. I actually think I've experienced some of that (haven't we all to some degree?) - the flesh is godless. It doesn't believe in God or any of the things of God. We carry this flesh with us. It's dark. It can sink itself into one heck of a funk, complaining, feeling sorry, woe is me, confusion, etc. We all carry this in our flesh (no good thing dwells there). So if someone went back to living 100% in their flesh, there is no hope . . . no nothing! Might as well just pull the trigger ("Bullet in the brainpan: Squish!" for those Firefly fans) and put it out of its misery. ("The mind of the flesh is death" Romans 8)

However, I don't believe this equates to an eternal loss of salvation. This child (hard to call a "believer") will suffer an incredible loss. So much so that it is hard to imagine the grief, pain and deepest regret - yes, much weeping and gnashing of teeth for all they carelessly threw away and counted as nothing. How long this suffering will last? Don't know, but it's not pretty.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

This verse in 2nd Peter . . . I think if someone is a defeated Christian, then their state actually is worse in this life (than they were before being saved). They have tasted what is true and have rejected it. Therefore nothing remains for them. I actually think I've experienced some of that - the flesh is godless. It doesn't believe in God or any of the things of God. We carry this flesh with us. It's dark. It can sink itself into one heck of a funk, complaining, feeling sorry, woe is me, confusion, etc. We all carry this in our flesh (no good thing dwells there). So if someone went back to living 100% in their flesh, there is no hope . . . no nothing! Might as well just pull the trigger ("Bullet in the brainpan: Squish!" for those Firefly fans) and put it out of its misery. ("The mind of the flesh is death" Romans 8)

However, I don't believe this equates to an eternal loss of salvation. This child (hard to call a "believer") will suffer an incredible loss. So much so that it is hard to imagine the grief, pain and deepest regret - yes, much weeping and gnashing of teeth for all they carelessly threw away as nothing. How long this suffering will last? Don't know, but it's not pretty.

Good points.