The Vision of the Age, the Ministry of the Age, and the Minister of the Age

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP>”So if you apply these verses to justify the MOTA doctrine you are saying that this truth is equivalent to confessing Jesus or denying Jesus! I have asked you repeatedly to clarify this position.”

ZNP,

That would be leap in logic I am not willing to make.

My point simple. Not everything we do in following the Lord results in peace and harmony and the Lord said this when He said His coming will set us at variance with others. Therefore, we must be faithful to follow the Lord and what He has shown us knowing that it will sometimes bring about variance with others.

Drake

The Lord and the Bible said a lot of things. For example Paul said "as much as is possible be at peace with all men".

Therefore, when putting the two verses together it means there are some things that it is just not possible to compromise on. We call these things "the faith" -- the seven ones. We don't compromise of Jesus as Lord. We don't compromise on one God, the Father, Son and Spirit. These are items that if necessary we can divide ourselves over.

Why do you put MOTA on the same level as these?

Witness Lee said:

In verse 1 Paul speaks of both the deceiving spirits in the air and the demons on earth. Among Christians today there are deceptive doctrines which come from the deceiving spirits in the air and also teachings which originate with demons. The history of the church has proved that Paul was right in saying that such teachings and doctrines would come in and that those who depart from The faith would give heed to them.

In verse 2 Paul continues, “In the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron.” The phrase “in the hypocrisy of men who speak lies” modifies teachings of demons in verse 1. The teachings of demons are carried out in the hypocrisy of those who lie. This indicates that demons and lying speakers collaborate to deceive people. These hypocrites work together with evil spirits and demons to bring in deceitful teachings and demonic doctrines.

The conscience of hypocritical liars has lost its sense as if seared with a hot branding iron, an iron used to brand the slaves and cattle of a certain owner. This book strongly stresses the conscience. In the church life the love which is contrary to envy and discord is of a good conscience (1:5). Those who thrust away a good conscience become shipwrecked regarding The faith (1:19). The serving ones in the church must hold the mystery of The faith in a pure conscience (3:9). To keep a good and pure conscience is to keep the conscience sensitive in its function. This will safeguard us from the demonic and hypocritical teachings of deceiving liars.

So then please explain to me how I can discern that this MOTA teaching is not from a deceiving spirit in the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron? I am familiar with the teaching of the Faith in the NT and cannot find any basis to include WL as the MOTA.

Thanks

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The conscience of hypocritical liars has lost its sense as if seared with a hot branding iron, an iron used to brand the slaves and cattle of a certain owner. This book strongly stresses the conscience. In the church life the love which is contrary to envy and discord is of a good conscience (1:5). Those who thrust away a good conscience become shipwrecked regarding The faith (1:19). The serving ones in the church must hold the mystery of The faith in a pure conscience (3:9). To keep a good and pure conscience is to keep the conscience sensitive in its function. This will safeguard us from the demonic and hypocritical teachings of deceiving liars.

I Timothy 1.5 exposes the irony of ironies in the promotion of Nee and Lee as MOTAs.

This verse is Lee's theme verse supporting the teachings of "God's Economy," yet in the same breath Paul warns us not to occupy ourselves with "myths and unending genealogies."

Is not the list of MOTAs a "myth and unending genealogy," in the same manner as the Papal genealogy?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I Timothy 1.5 exposes the irony of ironies in the promotion of Nee and Lee as MOTAs.

This verse is Lee's theme verse supporting the teachings of "God's Economy," yet in the same breath Paul warns us not to occupy ourselves with "myths and unending genealogies."

Is not the list of MOTAs a "myth and unending genealogy," in the same manner as the Papal genealogy?

Great point. The MOTA is based on the Myth of Watchman Nee being excommunicated because he was living with his mother. Endless genealogies, all these ones trying to tie themselves to some "apostle" like Peter or WN.