Nuclear's Testimony

Nuclear · 09-06-2019, 10:21 PM

Hello,

I have been mentally out of the LC for a little over a year now, and found this forum about half a year after that, and have been lurking pretty much ever since. But background first.

My parents came from a very conservative Mennonite family, and as such I was born in Mexico. We moved once to Canada when I was about 4, back to Mexico at 6, and then back to Canada since then. Churches were changed even more often, and as a result the first 10 or so years of my life were dominated by various Christian denominations and organizations, until finally my parents found something different.

The Local Church felt so fresh, so full of excitement and life, and I was hooked. I went to all the Young People conferences, SSOT’s and meetings for most of my teenage life, and served in the children’s meetings for a long time too. In all honesty I saw nothing wrong with most of it, the teachings, the practices, the beliefs, Witness Lee, etc.

As I grew older, small things began bothering me about the LC. An example that stands out to me is the denial of the existence and legitimacy of mental illness during a YP conference from someone I thought I respected. How much women were suppressed also bothered me quite a bit. This was never more directly addressed then when a sister shared to the point of tears her frustration with her peers in university. Her issue was that they wanted careers and postponed marriage for it. I cannot imagine the amount of self loathing and indoctrination it takes to have such a skewed and strong view on how a woman should live her life, it blew me away.

Regardless, I managed to sweep these concerns under the rug, I mean if it is God ordained, its God ordained right? I was mostly content and there was no reason to upset that.
The real strain arrived when it came to faith in a God itself.

Science has throughout my childhood been something I was fascinated with, I ate it up as a middle/high schooler. Even now despite being an engineering student I enjoy learner more about the natural world. As I’m sure some of you can relate, this often conflicted with a literal interpretation of the Bible, especially creation. I managed to postpone what would eventually happen with stopgaps like the “gap theory” with regards to the age of the Earth, among other things. The doubts I had still remained relatively weak, but the cracks were there.

I still remember that night vividly. I was browsing the internet and fell down an internet rabbit-hole on the validity of the Bible scientifically and based off of historical record. The openness that the subject matter was discussed with was something I had never encountered before, but I couldn’t stop reading. It sort of shocked the sort of jaded way that I had always looked at the bible away. The whole book, creation, Noah’s flood, Moses, treatment of women, of other cultures, it all looked so different. Really looking at it and seeing how it fit into our modern understanding of how the universe and life began, stuff that I was aware of but would always mentally try to blend in with the Biblical account, it just made so much more sense standalone.

I don’t know if any of you have had that experience, but the dam really broke that fast. I went in with few but nagging doubts and near absolute faith in the LC and then later going to bed with my entire worldview broken and shattered into a million pieces. I was physically sick for several days after, but after I felt so liberated. No anxiety over whether I was living the “Spirit” all the time. No more concern over some of my high school friends spending eternity in hellfire. I don’t really know how to say it but the world just felt so fresh and vibrant without being pigeonholed into a Biblical worldview.

Its been over a year since then, and I have yet to find a reason to change my mind. I feel that I’m less likely to judge others that I previously would have, I’m still not a terribly adventurous person, but I feel more willing to get out of my comfort zone and to get to know people from all sorts of backgrounds and places.

Until I found this forum about 6 months ago, I maintained in my mind that if Christianity contained any validity, that the LC was its truest and most valid form, but after finding out about its history and controversies, and becoming further disillusioned with its practices and principles even that concept has shattered for me.

I still attend Sunday meetings every now and then to stay in touch with certain people, and I plan on making a full break eventually when I feel brave enough, but for now I am happy.

I understand this forums general perspective and attitude towards atheism, so I will most likely just be chilling in Alternative Views out of respect for the main forum. Hopefully I can be of some contribution to the discussions that happen there and perhaps even here.

For the record, I still respect those who maintain their faith, and even recognize that for many it gives them purpose and can be a positive force in their lives, and as far as I can see, this is a pretty great community. And who knows, I’m young, I’m only 19, there’s a lot of life yet ahead and my views could change long term, but for now I feel I’ve made the intellectually honest decision and am content.

Thanks for this community and for reading,

Nuclear

Cal · 09-07-2019, 07:49 AM

Nuclear,

Finding truth is a process. Although you say you've become an atheist, it seems you are still keeping an open mind. That's really all that is required for the truth to shine.

God is a gentleman. He doesn't force himself on us. Religionists are anything but gentlemen. They can produce so much noise and distraction that you can't know which end is up.

I hope you will maintain your open-minded and easy-going approach. If there is a God of the kind who I believe in, he will come in gently in quiet times to guide and comfort you, and to show you he is real. I believe that.

Best wishes,
Igzy

aron · 09-10-2019, 09:31 AM

There's a guy named Richard Dawkins, who's one of my favourite companions, intellectually speaking. Another guy named Christopher Hitchens is also a boon companion if you want to try to think (a habit I encourage for all).

Every morning I have a chat with my buddy Richard. He likes to argue, strenuously and passionately, that there's no God. He's extremely bright and nearly convincing. But ultimately I decide to believe in God because, well, I just want to. The universe seems a lot less empty and cold.

Plus I was studying DNA replication the other day, and I said, "Only God could have designed this. How could the Second Law of Thermodynamics lead to this?" But I respect and appreciate, folks who don't believe in God. I just choose to believe. Somehow my universe has a fixed point... without God, it's just, I don't know, not so fun for me. It's too.. meaningless. (I speak personally, not for the human race)

And I'm serious about Dawkins and Hitchens. They're fabulous conversation partners. Irreplaceable in my estimation.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quo...opher_Hitchens

https://www.ted.com/talks/richard_da...sm?language=en

To me, religion is the human race trying to acknowledge God. It does an awful job, I admit. But the horror of religion in its varied forms doesn't (for me) preclude God. When I see a butterfly I see God's smile. Or a cloud, or a fern.

Sons to Glory! · 09-10-2019, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron

There's a guy named Richard Dawkins, who's one of my favourite companions, intellectually speaking. Another guy named Christopher Hitchens is also a boon companion if you want to try to think (a habit I encourage for all).

Every morning I have a chat with my buddy Richard. He likes to argue, strenuously and passionately, that there's no God. He's extremely bright and nearly convincing. But ultimately I decide to believe in God because, well, I just want to. The universe seems a lot less empty and cold.

Plus I was studying DNA replication the other day, and I said, "Only God could have designed this. How could the Second Law of Thermodynamics lead to this?" But I respect and appreciate, folks who don't believe in God. I just choose to believe. Somehow my universe has a fixed point... without God, it's just, I don't know, not so fun for me. It's too.. meaningless. (I speak personally, not for the human race)

And I'm serious about Dawkins and Hitchens. They're fabulous conversation partners. Irreplaceable in my estimation.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quo...opher_Hitchens

https://www.ted.com/talks/richard_da...sm?language=en

To me, religion is the human race trying to acknowledge God. It does an awful job, I admit. But the horror of religion in its varied forms doesn't (for me) preclude God. When I see a butterfly I see God's smile. Or a cloud, or a fern.

Ha ha - that's great! Or watching a couple of loony-toon ferrets! Good post regarding your "conversations" with these folks. (I wonder what they would say now if you could truly ask them . . .)

And I would just also say that once Christ is in you (assuming that's the case) via the new birth, that's it - you can't be unborn! I tried to run away too (however, I didn't know exactly Who or what I was running from), yet I found I was still always seeking the Answer at some level.

Be sure to also have the conversations with Him. May I suggest something like, "Well God, I don't believe in you because of these things. There's no problem with talking to you, since I don't think you even exist, therefore it all means nothing. But on the outside chance you do exist, I want to tell you that you've really screwed things up in my life, and I'm pretty mad at you for it." Bottom-line is He still loves you, even though you may cuss at Him and accuse Him of whatever!

aron · 09-10-2019, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Be sure to also have the conversations with Him.

I think the poster Trapped also expressed frustration on this forum at having 'conversations' with a silent God.

In my case, post-LC, I tried a number of other groups. Some were extremely fundamentalist - women wore head coverings, didn't speak in church, etc. Eventually I just wasn't getting better. My anxieties, frustrations, inadequacies, shame, just wouldn't go away. I was a shame-based and fear-based human being trying to pretend that I was 'godly' and it was so miserable!

Eventually I just quit. I actually got into science. I wasn't militantly atheist, or even openly atheist, but certainly I became agnostic. Just wasn't in the mood to pretend any more. Life is too short. If God doesn't want to talk with me, I'm not going to talk with God.

But eventually, God came back into my life. It's pretty amazing to me, looking back. Little by little I just became 'aware' of God. I don't know how to put it. God's presence came back.

It's a journey, I guess. Anyway, I don't judge anyone, wherever they are in their journey today. Theirs is just as real to them as mine is, to me. But I recommend people like Dawkins and Hitchens and anyone who tries to think. Ravi Zacharius is actually pretty good. Another one I like is Neils Bohr the physicist. There are a lot of good thinkers out there. You can really learn a lot.

But I'd like to come back to Nuclear's testimony. And about learning to think critically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuclear

Science has throughout my childhood been something I was fascinated with, I ate it up as a middle/high schooler. Even now despite being an engineering student I enjoy learner more about the natural world. As I’m sure some of you can relate, this often conflicted with a literal interpretation of the Bible, especially creation. I managed to postpone what would eventually happen with stopgaps like the “gap theory” with regards to the age of the Earth, among other things. The doubts I had still remained relatively weak, but the cracks were there.

I still remember that night vividly. I was browsing the internet and fell down an internet rabbit-hole on the validity of the Bible scientifically and based off of historical record. The openness that the subject matter was discussed with was something I had never encountered before, but I couldn’t stop reading. It sort of shocked the sort of jaded way that I had always looked at the bible away. The whole book, creation, Noah’s flood, Moses, treatment of women, of other cultures, it all looked so different. Really looking at it and seeing how it fit into our modern understanding of how the universe and life began, stuff that I was aware of but would always mentally try to blend in with the Biblical account, it just made so much more sense standalone.

I don’t know if any of you have had that experience, but the dam really broke that fast. I went in with few but nagging doubts and near absolute faith in the LC and then later going to bed with my entire worldview broken and shattered into a million pieces. I was physically sick for several days after, but after I felt so liberated.

I've shared this before, that my anecdotal observation is that the LC loses young people in droves, not merely to purchasing LSM materials and going to LSM-sanctioned meetings, but to Christian faith. And I believe this is because they repress critical thought. They avoid problem-solving. Just call "O Lord Jesus" three times and all your problems will disappear. When I was there, we were specifically told not to think. "Just exercise your spirit, brother" meant, Loudly repeat whatever ministry snippet was in front of us. Suppress, avoid, deny. Suppress, avoid, deny. "Let's all call on the Lord"...

This leaves the young ones quite unprepared for life, which for many of us involves trying to think. You know, actually facing things. And being around others who think critically. Even when one does, in the LC (going to college for example) religion is not included. "The Ministry is always right" is the default non-thought mode. One papers over and ignores the 'cracks' in the thought-world system, and puts nagging unanswered questions into the closet, where they don't truly shut up, ever. Eventually, one day the person decides to face things and pretty much right away they realize it's all a sham. It's a make-believe system with no true objective basis that they can find. And so out they go.

awareness · 09-10-2019, 12:13 PM

I've gone thru similar experiences after the local church. Eventually I became a critical thinker.

And now, because I have issues with the God of the OT, and therefore the Bible, I'm censored out here.

Seems brother Untohim, wants LCers to come out, but still stifle their critical thinking, like it's a hungover from the LC.

At least he started Alternative Views, for critical self thinkers. For that we owe him gratitude.

Bro Aron, do I have your permission to bring a copy of your post down to AltV's?

09-06-2019, 10:21 PM	#1
Nuclear Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Alberta Posts: 21	Nuclear's Testimony Hello, I have been mentally out of the LC for a little over a year now, and found this forum about half a year after that, and have been lurking pretty much ever since. But background first. My parents came from a very conservative Mennonite family, and as such I was born in Mexico. We moved once to Canada when I was about 4, back to Mexico at 6, and then back to Canada since then. Churches were changed even more often, and as a result the first 10 or so years of my life were dominated by various Christian denominations and organizations, until finally my parents found something different. The Local Church felt so fresh, so full of excitement and life, and I was hooked. I went to all the Young People conferences, SSOT’s and meetings for most of my teenage life, and served in the children’s meetings for a long time too. In all honesty I saw nothing wrong with most of it, the teachings, the practices, the beliefs, Witness Lee, etc. As I grew older, small things began bothering me about the LC. An example that stands out to me is the denial of the existence and legitimacy of mental illness during a YP conference from someone I thought I respected. How much women were suppressed also bothered me quite a bit. This was never more directly addressed then when a sister shared to the point of tears her frustration with her peers in university. Her issue was that they wanted careers and postponed marriage for it. I cannot imagine the amount of self loathing and indoctrination it takes to have such a skewed and strong view on how a woman should live her life, it blew me away. Regardless, I managed to sweep these concerns under the rug, I mean if it is God ordained, its God ordained right? I was mostly content and there was no reason to upset that. The real strain arrived when it came to faith in a God itself. Science has throughout my childhood been something I was fascinated with, I ate it up as a middle/high schooler. Even now despite being an engineering student I enjoy learner more about the natural world. As I’m sure some of you can relate, this often conflicted with a literal interpretation of the Bible, especially creation. I managed to postpone what would eventually happen with stopgaps like the “gap theory” with regards to the age of the Earth, among other things. The doubts I had still remained relatively weak, but the cracks were there. I still remember that night vividly. I was browsing the internet and fell down an internet rabbit-hole on the validity of the Bible scientifically and based off of historical record. The openness that the subject matter was discussed with was something I had never encountered before, but I couldn’t stop reading. It sort of shocked the sort of jaded way that I had always looked at the bible away. The whole book, creation, Noah’s flood, Moses, treatment of women, of other cultures, it all looked so different. Really looking at it and seeing how it fit into our modern understanding of how the universe and life began, stuff that I was aware of but would always mentally try to blend in with the Biblical account, it just made so much more sense standalone. I don’t know if any of you have had that experience, but the dam really broke that fast. I went in with few but nagging doubts and near absolute faith in the LC and then later going to bed with my entire worldview broken and shattered into a million pieces. I was physically sick for several days after, but after I felt so liberated. No anxiety over whether I was living the “Spirit” all the time. No more concern over some of my high school friends spending eternity in hellfire. I don’t really know how to say it but the world just felt so fresh and vibrant without being pigeonholed into a Biblical worldview. Its been over a year since then, and I have yet to find a reason to change my mind. I feel that I’m less likely to judge others that I previously would have, I’m still not a terribly adventurous person, but I feel more willing to get out of my comfort zone and to get to know people from all sorts of backgrounds and places. Until I found this forum about 6 months ago, I maintained in my mind that if Christianity contained any validity, that the LC was its truest and most valid form, but after finding out about its history and controversies, and becoming further disillusioned with its practices and principles even that concept has shattered for me. I still attend Sunday meetings every now and then to stay in touch with certain people, and I plan on making a full break eventually when I feel brave enough, but for now I am happy. I understand this forums general perspective and attitude towards atheism, so I will most likely just be chilling in Alternative Views out of respect for the main forum. Hopefully I can be of some contribution to the discussions that happen there and perhaps even here. For the record, I still respect those who maintain their faith, and even recognize that for many it gives them purpose and can be a positive force in their lives, and as far as I can see, this is a pretty great community. And who knows, I’m young, I’m only 19, there’s a lot of life yet ahead and my views could change long term, but for now I feel I’ve made the intellectually honest decision and am content. Thanks for this community and for reading, Nuclear

09-07-2019, 07:49 AM	#2
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,330	Re: Nuclear's Testimony Nuclear, Finding truth is a process. Although you say you've become an atheist, it seems you are still keeping an open mind. That's really all that is required for the truth to shine. God is a gentleman. He doesn't force himself on us. Religionists are anything but gentlemen. They can produce so much noise and distraction that you can't know which end is up. I hope you will maintain your open-minded and easy-going approach. If there is a God of the kind who I believe in, he will come in gently in quiet times to guide and comfort you, and to show you he is real. I believe that. Best wishes, Igzy

09-10-2019, 09:31 AM	#3
aron Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Natal Transvaal Posts: 5,635	Re: Nuclear's Testimony There's a guy named Richard Dawkins, who's one of my favourite companions, intellectually speaking. Another guy named Christopher Hitchens is also a boon companion if you want to try to think (a habit I encourage for all). Every morning I have a chat with my buddy Richard. He likes to argue, strenuously and passionately, that there's no God. He's extremely bright and nearly convincing. But ultimately I decide to believe in God because, well, I just want to. The universe seems a lot less empty and cold. Plus I was studying DNA replication the other day, and I said, "Only God could have designed this. How could the Second Law of Thermodynamics lead to this?" But I respect and appreciate, folks who don't believe in God. I just choose to believe. Somehow my universe has a fixed point... without God, it's just, I don't know, not so fun for me. It's too.. meaningless. (I speak personally, not for the human race) And I'm serious about Dawkins and Hitchens. They're fabulous conversation partners. Irreplaceable in my estimation. https://www.goodreads.com/author/quo...opher_Hitchens https://www.ted.com/talks/richard_da...sm?language=en To me, religion is the human race trying to acknowledge God. It does an awful job, I admit. But the horror of religion in its varied forms doesn't (for me) preclude God. When I see a butterfly I see God's smile. Or a cloud, or a fern. __________________ "Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'

09-10-2019, 12:13 PM	#6
awareness Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,064	Re: Nuclear's Testimony I've gone thru similar experiences after the local church. Eventually I became a critical thinker. And now, because I have issues with the God of the OT, and therefore the Bible, I'm censored out here. Seems brother Untohim, wants LCers to come out, but still stifle their critical thinking, like it's a hungover from the LC. At least he started Alternative Views, for critical self thinkers. For that we owe him gratitude. Bro Aron, do I have your permission to bring a copy of your post down to AltV's? __________________ Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to. There's a serpent in every paradise.