The Process of Moving On

[ToGodAlone]

Brothers and Sisters,

I came to this forum seeking aid from you in hopes of getting the girl I love to move on from the false teachings and doctrines of Witness Lee and his local church. However, I sense much bitterness in several of you. I don't know who or what this bitterness is directed at, but I assure you, there is no need for such feelings. As brother NeitherFirstnorLast said, we must strive to move forward in the Truth of God's Word. The truth that was found in the Lord's Recovery can't possibly be the Truth of the Word of God, no matter how they may try to say that it is, and I'm sure many of you would agree with that. However, there is not a need to also reject the so called "apostate denominational churches" just because they happen to bear the name of a particular denomination. From my own experience I can say that when it comes down to it, it does not matter what "denomination" a person happens to meet with. We are all united in Christ. This can be seen in many foundations for missionaries as well as "companies" (I lack the proper term at the moment) like World Vision.

Brothers and Sisters, there is much more that this forum can do other than bash on the teachings of Witness Lee. We can help each other to know God and His word more. For those of us outside the Lord's Recovery, that is what we must do. We strive to be more like Jesus so that we may shine to nonbelievers. Is that not so? Forgive me for generalizing (as well as for using "we" since I technically never went through this, but that is a superfluous detail), I know not everyone is focused on what is wrong with the local church rather than moving on from it, but we have to move on and help each other do so. Who knows? Perhaps we can help a few more brothers and sisters still in the Recovery...

[TLFisher]

You have made good points. May we be those who pray for each other. For one we would press on in our pursuit of being filled in spirit and two through prayer, our wounds will be healed.

[awareness]

God helps those who help themselves - Hezekiah 3:16

[ZNPaaneah]

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
I think these terms are very appropriate in referring to the LRC. Jesus is the Amen, certainly something we can relate to and embrace. The faithful and true witness, quite ironic, but something that we on this site can see as a very appropriate word as we have delved into the history of WL not being a true or faithful witness. The Beginning of the creation of God, whereas the Recovery saw themselves as recovering the beginning revelations. This word seems spoken directly to those of us who were in the LRC. So even if some take exception and say this word was spoken to the church in Laodicea, even so, it seems the word spoken to them is quite appropriate for the LRC.
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
This was certainly our case. I have heard many speak against the New Way, and the FTT. But out of all those posts never once did I read someone say that prior to the New Way the gospel work in the LRC was sizzling. That is because it wasn’t. The New Way was a reaction to the fact that our works were not hot. However, with all the money and effort put forth into the New Way it would not be fair to say that the LRC does not have works or is “cold”. If they were hot for the Lord that would be wonderful, if they were cold and offended, the Lord could deal with that. But instead they do enough work to give themselves cover, kind of like a fig leaf.
16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
I find it interesting that our forum focuses on all of the shortcomings of the LRC and yet the lukewarmness of their works is not our chief concern, it isn’t our second priority, it is almost as though we don’t mention it at all, yet this is what the Lord focuses on first.
17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
If you teach that WL is the MOTA, then you cannot deny that you are saying that you are rich. You have the MOTA and “poor, poor Christianity” doesn’t. When they emphasize being “one with the ministry” then the emphasis on “the” ministry is just another way of saying “I am rich”, I have the true ministry, I am one with this genuine ministry. Also, the LRC glories in “all of the rich ministry”, whether you are talking about the complete works of WN or of WL, etc. They have enough books to fill an entire bookcase or two. Their books cover every verse in the Bible. But the reality is the LRC is wretched. We have touched on this in detail about the lack of love and the way they tear each other apart. They are miserable, again we have shared many testimonies about all of these churches have become slaves to the LSM office under PL and they have willingly allowed themselves to be made parrots in a cage. And they are poor in love, poor in faith and poor in hope. They think they have all of these riches, but the reality is their own function and their own voice have atrophied so they can no longer make a stand for the Lord. They are blind to this. And, they are naked, the church should be clothed with the righteousnesses of the saints, but by acquiescing to the demands of PL, the LSM, and the BBs they have given away any covering they might have once had.
18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
So then, were our experiences in the LRC genuine? I believe that “gold tried in the fire” may refer to genuine experiences, “white raiment” may refer to genuine experiences, and “eyesalve” may refer to wise counsel. I think that this forum provides an opportunity to share these experiences and this counsel. This is a word full of hope. “That thou mayest be rich”, that the shame of thy nakedness not appear, that thou mayest see. And this is a word full of love and faith. You must be motivated by love to help others, and you must have tapped into genuine faith to have these experiences to share and to buy.
19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
The fact that we have been rebuked and chastened is a good thing, it is proof that we are loved of the Lord. You can look at your experiences in the LRC as abuse, or you can see that the Lord is sovereign, and you can see His rebuking and chastening in your experiences.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Once again, we need to drop all of the excuses and realize that Jesus is close at hand. Hear His voice and open the door to your heart.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

It is God’s sovereignty that we were in the LRC and we were put there to overcome. A promise is given to us to sit on the Lord’s throne. And He has given us a pattern, because everything that we need to overcome, He also has already overcome. So when we talk about the shortcomings of the LRC we are really talking about the things we need to overcome.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
This was certainly our case. I have heard many speak against the New Way, and the FTT. But out of all those posts never once did I read someone say that prior to the New Way the gospel work in the LRC was sizzling. That is because it wasn’t. The New Way was a reaction to the fact that our works were not hot. However, with all the money and effort put forth into the New Way it would not be fair to say that the LRC does not have works or is “cold”. If they were hot for the Lord that would be wonderful, if they were cold and offended, the Lord could deal with that. But instead they do enough work to give themselves cover, kind of like a fig leaf.

It is God’s sovereignty that we were in the LRC and we were put there to overcome. A promise is given to us to sit on the Lord’s throne. And He has given us a pattern, because everything that we need to overcome, He also has already overcome. So when we talk about the shortcomings of the LRC we are really talking about the things we need to overcome.

ZNP, once again your conclusion casts our whole experience in a new light. You mention our LC experience under the sovereignty of God. Thank the Lord for this! The letter to Laodicea is indeed applicable for us. We are not a God-less people. I was led to the LC as an answer to prayer, but departed after much searching. Just because the Lord led me there does not mean it was all perfect, and just because I left does not mean it was all evil.

I did want to mention one LC that was thriving before the New Way, and that is where I migrated to in the early 80's. We were extremely blessed by the Lord with the freshness of the Spirit, the living word of God, numerous almost-miraculous answers to prayer, and the increase of believers and newly saved. Our condition by no means matched that of the rest of the LC's as described at the time by WL. Sadly it was our elders being instructed by TC to follow WL closely that brought the end of the blessing. We were distracted by ways and methods and endless changes. Our saints were scattered to various trainings. Our elders were re-assigned to other places. Our blessed condition was apparently an embarrassment which needed some "correction."

[OBW]

TGA,

You are correct that there is a lot of simple grousing about the LRC. But at the same time, part of finding the truth is to discuss, even debate, the things we think we see. That was denied by the LRC. We were force-fed Lee's version of everything. There was no "come let us reason." It was simply "come and listen."

There is a tendency in some to over do the "it was terrible" talk. And some others who will defend almost everything as if defending the very faith. Suggesting that we "move on" is not really as helpful as is often thought. Several of us are in the process of finding our way out so we can move on. Some are willing to remain around to help others find the way.

Or we could leave the way marked only by cave paintings like those on my avatar. And leave every man to "what is right in his own eyes." Not saying that my eyes are better. But together we do better, even if some of the rhetoric along the way is not that helpful.

[zeek]

I agree with OBW. When I left the church 25 years ago I didn't sit around grousing about it. I haven't really talked about it much until recently when I started discussing it on a website similar to this one recently. But there is psychological evidence that usually when a person goes through a crisis experience they can't simply leave it behind. They need to work through the experience first then they can move on. I think a website like this may afford people a way to do that. You know, kind of like a self-help group.

[Suannehill]

Originally Posted by ToGodAlone

Forgive me for generalizing (as well as for using "we" since I technically never went through this, but that is a superfluous detail), I know not everyone is focused on what is wrong with the local church rather than moving on from it, but we have to move on and help each other do so. Who knows? Perhaps we can help a few more brothers and sisters still in the Recovery...

Believe me, brother, anyone who has left the meetings of the LC HAS MOVED ON...we are just in different stages. It's very dangerous to tell someone who has experienced a trauma to "move on". There's nothing people want more than to move on with life! This is a place to expose the facts, heal, and help others. It's not a "clean" process, it looks pretty messy sometimes.
My husband who passed away was a Vietnam Vet with MUCH to forgive and work through. From him I learned...

Luke 6:37b"...release and you will be released." (Recovery Version)

What I do NOT forgive I am bound to. The danger on sites like this is to be so focused on the problems and suffering of the LC that we can remain bound to it. Once I release them, I am released from them. I certainly don't dwell on the issues, but I am willing to share with folks who really want to know.
Many Vietnam Vets still have not forgiven Jane Fonda for her treason during the war...this unforgiveness binds them to her...creating a spiritual fornication of sorts...by not forgiving they bind themselves to the very thing they hate. Until they release her they are bound to her.
Praise the Lord for being RELEASED!!!!!!

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Suannehill

Believe me, brother, anyone who has left the meetings of the LC HAS MOVED ON...we are just in different stages. It's very dangerous to tell someone who has experienced a trauma to "move on". There's nothing people want more than to move on with life! This is a place to expose the facts, heal, and help others. It's not a "clean" process, it looks pretty messy sometimes.

Thanks Suanne for this very needed perspective! (I wish you would post more) We are in different stages and that's OK - this is what makes for a lively and interesting "community". What good is a community composed solely of a bunch of old farts sitting around talking about the good ole days and complaining about the weather? Conversely, who needs a community composed solely of a bunch of know-it-all, bratty teenagers? It takes all kinds. I think this forum might work out after all so long as we don't kill each other first.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Thanks Suanne for this very needed perspective! (I wish you would post more) We are in different stages and that's OK - this is what makes for a lively and interesting "community". What good is a community composed solely of a bunch of old farts sitting around talking about the good ole days and complaining about the weather? Conversely, who needs a community composed solely of a bunch of know-it-all, bratty teenagers? It takes all kinds. I think this forum might work out after all so long as we don't kill each other first.

“But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth” (Deuteronomy 20:16).

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

“But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth” (Deuteronomy 20:16).

Awareness, they tried to kill everything, the Bible records that they tried, but it is very hard to do. So stop condemning them for not being faithful to this command, they gave it their best effort.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Awareness, they tried to kill everything, the Bible records that they tried, but it is very hard to do. So stop condemning them for not being faithful to this command, they gave it their best effort.

Maybe that's his point...