Now's good - byHismercy

[byHismercy]

Hi saints, I originally posted under the name eyesopened, under someone elses' introduction, and I'd like to apologize for that...I think that was not the appropriate place to jump in...

I feel like now's good to share some of my experience of the witness lee church. This is because very recently, this week, as I was reflecting on the events that led me out of the LC, I began to realize the Lords operation over me, and His sovereign intervention on my behalf, and His sheltering care of my kiddos, of our family. More than just a testimony, or a cautionary tale of Lees' local church, I wish to share His faithfulness to shepherd me, His dependability, and to show how trustworthy Jesus is, always. In so many ways, He prepared me beforehand all the situations I was to encounter throughout my shunning, or quarantining, or whatever the LC would like to name it. They are the ones concerned with names, let it be known. Except for the one name we, as believers, need to hold as highest, that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

I apologize in advance if this testimony feels disjointed or simply raises questions.....

One detail to illustrate His 'preparation' of me was to come as a renewed desire, deep and sure, my feeling that He wanted me in His word, daily and consistently, I feel that He told me to read the bible cover to cover, then begin it again the day I finished it...He gave me this impulse after some time in His word and prayer, and so when the next day, a dear sister in the Lord, a LCer, encouraged me to read and study the Life Study of Exodus with her, I regretfully declined as He had already put His instruction on my heart! And with three young children, I knew I could not accomplish both. I am not one of those supermoms, sort of the opposite, actually.

Later, the same dear sister had wanted me to read some portions of some WLee book, I don't know which, forgive me. She wanted me to know exactly how much the Lord HATES division, denominations, particularly. However, the Lord had already had His own fellowship with me regarding His body, it's oneness, and born from talking to Him, my hearts great desire was to practice that oneness with EVERY redeemed, Jesus believing, Spirit filled saint....forgetting city boundaries, denomination boundaries, condition, etc. Qualified by Jesus name...that is who I love! Because of His love for me. My friend in the LC called me up to see if I had read the portion a few days later and I had to be honest...that though I loved her, I DID NOT want to read anything anymore that would poison me against meeting with saints in Christ, no matter where...and that, He put in me, He knew exactly what I would face, before I did.

I had been deeply deceived, saints. For years, I believed into what I was being taught in the Lee church. Never good enough to meet with them, because of personality traits of my own, yet longing to be with believers, pursuing Him in His word, fully convinced that outside of the LC was nothing...no truth, no life, no building...I was lied to. And, I was naive. My parents could have named me Naive and no one would have thought it strange.

We were first cut off (from fellowship, friendship) by an older sister in Christ whom our family loved greatly. In fact, she led me to believe her dropping of our family was her obeying the Lord. This came from someone who I trusted and viewed as having a better walk, a deeper connection to Him. I thought and feared that He Himself was dropping me, or punishing me, or trying to rebuke me somehow. Then I had our other sister in Christ telling me, that the woman who dropped us knew when the building was just straw, to be burned, of course. And that my mentor in Christ, was waiting for me in the meetings. I began to understand....I was being shunned outside the meetings, but would be embraced, and worthy to speak to, if I came into the meetings. This was the Lord opening the door a crack for me, of course, I pushed open the door and was stunned by what I found. The truth about this idolatrous group came into broad daylight and I understood, after months of this silent treatment....that I and my precious children, who trust in Jesus, had been sacrificed on their alter to their real god, Witness Lee, a mere man, dead 20 years now. No matter the reality we share of His blood, His atoning death and resurrection, His Spirit, His Father, our common inheritance in Christ...none of that matters. We are Not To Be Spoken To. Rightly said Steven Hawking....life would be funny if it weren't so tragic. Or is it the other way around?

But I have to glory in Jesus, because, on the far side of our quarantining, we are about 7 months out now, I see His sovereighnty in all of this mess! In fact, I have to say, His work here is divinely in our favor, NOT a mess! And although we lost ones whom we loved, He is working out compassion in my heart which, naturally was full of pain, indignation, anger towards those we loved, trusted as dear friends, who deceived us. The truth is, when I consider all that has taken place, and the darkness that has been exposed, I want to run to my friends and companions in Christ and show them...look! Look what the LC believes! Look what egregious acts they perpetrate on true believers!!!! And it is the saddest fact, that, they know. They themselves are the ones dividing the Lords' body. How foolish of me to want to warn them of this deception being played out by Satan, trying to destroy the body, the oneness that we in actuality share. Actually, I would attempt to have this conversation, but I feel, in effect, locked out...my communicaes go unanswered, phone calls not taken, etc. Unless we meet our sisters' qualifications for fellowship...meet a minimum of twice a month, and lunch with the sisters in the ministry on Fridays. This, by the way, to take place 30 miles from our home, where the Lee church meets, in order to be reinstated as worthwhile to meet with an old dear friend who lives within 5 miles of us.....what??? That is Deception talking the talk and walking the walk.

How thankful I am, my precious Savior would not tolerate us remaining in deception any longer! What mercy! What love! What grace I am under! His is the only name I will bow to, forever, saints. I love Him. He alone deserves all glory.

[Ohio]

ByHismercy, thanks for sharing your story.

Your dear friend has been deceived. Deceived by the exclusive, elitest, legalistic, and judgmental demands coming from a book publisher in Anaheim. This is not the evidence of God's love, life, and light. They totally misrepresent our Savior's heart of love, unconditional love, and conditionally confine it only to those willing to read their books and travel to their meetings. Who do you think are the real "naive" ones?

This forum exists to help those like you and me who once believed these deceptions, so that one's like you can continue your faith walk in Christ without fear and without guilt.

[Truthseeker]

Who ever destroys His body, the Lord will destroy that person. If we sow divisiveness among brothers and sisters in Christ like what LSM is doing, we will be punished because this is Body's destroying. Praise the Lord for His mercy and grace on you. He drags your hands out of dark pit unto His salvation.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ByHismercy, thanks for sharing your story.

Your dear friend has been deceived. Deceived by the exclusive, elitest, legalistic, and judgmental demands coming from a book publisher in Anaheim. This is not the evidence of God's love, life, and light. They totally misrepresent our Savior's heart of love, unconditional love, and conditionally confine it only to those willing to read their books and travel to their meetings. Who do you think are the real "naive" ones?

This forum exists to help those like you and me who once believed these deceptions, so that one's like you can continue your faith walk in Christ without fear and without guilt.

Yes, Ohio. Thank you...

Deceived as I once was. And this forum is being used by the Lord to encourage me in Him! And my desire is to keep others, all others, from falling into the trap of the false teachings, erroneous belief system...the Lord warned his disciples to beware of the leaven of the pharisees and the sadduces...is this what we are coming out of? I would love input from participants here...

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Yes, Ohio. Thank you...

Deceived as I once was. And this forum is being used by the Lord to encourage me in Him! And my desire is to keep others, all others, from falling into the trap of the false teachings, erroneous belief system...the Lord warned his disciples to beware of the leaven of the pharisees and the sadduces...is this what we are coming out of? I would love input from participants here...

This account is in Matthew chpt 16...the first chunk of it

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Yes, Ohio. Thank you...

Deceived as I once was. And this forum is being used by the Lord to encourage me in Him! And my desire is to keep others, all others, from falling into the trap of the false teachings, erroneous belief system...the Lord warned his disciples to beware of the leaven of the pharisees and the sadduces...is this what we are coming out of? I would love input from participants here...

Definitely! That's what makes leaving so difficult.

Leaving the LC's is an unleavening process. The early disciples were forced to do the same.

I Thess 5 provides one guideline, "Test all things, hold on to the good."

[awareness]

Great post sister (left below). Thanks much.

Kinda funny. I recently changed my tagline.

I replaced "Life would be tragic if it was so funny - Stephen Hawking

with:

Judaism is Satanic Catholicism is demonic and Christianity is christless - Witness Lee.

Relating to your post, that's irony of ironies.

Many blessings sister ..

Harold-awareness

[manna-man]

Amen byHismercy!

It's not by might nor power but by my spirit saith the Lord!

[aron]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

We were first cut off (from fellowship, friendship) by an older sister in Christ whom our family loved greatly. In fact, she led me to believe her dropping of our family was her obeying the Lord. This came from someone who I trusted and viewed as having a better walk, a deeper connection to Him. I thought and feared that He Himself was dropping me, or punishing me, or trying to rebuke me somehow. Then I had our other sister in Christ telling me, that the woman who dropped us knew when the building was just straw, to be burned, of course. And that my mentor in Christ, was waiting for me in the meetings. I began to understand....I was being shunned outside the meetings, but would be embraced, and worthy to speak to, if I came into the meetings.

The great problem with the LC system is that the subjectivism of Nee and Lee is now writ large across the assemblies and becomes that basis for ascertaining "reality" as it seems to be presenting to the members. It is all about how you feel. The Bible itself is secondary, as is basic righteousness, or rightness. Common sense. Interpretational consistency. All goes out the window in the subjective LC. If you don't "get life" you don't do it. And if Lee didn't "get life" from something, then neither can you.

All of which leads to some strange and very unchristian stuff. Eventually the disconnect becomes so glaring it is impossible not to notice. People who should always get love are treated as "straw to be burned" because why? They aren't absolute for this week's ministry message? What is the basis here? Subjectivism unhinged and unrestrained. "There is no one to restrain the madness of the prophet" indeed. The safety of multiple counselors, cited repeatedly in Proverbs, is completely absent in the LC. Whatever WL wanted to talk about today was "God's oracle."

The glory of the gospel, for me, is in its simplicity. God's love reaches everyone, not just those who fit our subjective comfort zones. God's power raised Jesus from the dead. God's light shines into the darkness, and mine is the worst, so why should I judge anyone? But rather God forgives, so I don't worry about anyone else's "subjective Christ" over-riding the word of the Bible in front of me.

Anyway I'm writing to say thank you for writing. I write too much, and often wish others would share their experiences. There's a need for people to realize there is indeed life, and "Christ", outside the LC. Thank you for sharing yours.

In Him always.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by aron

The great problem with the LC system is that the subjectivism of Nee and Lee is now writ large across the assemblies and becomes that basis for ascertaining "reality" as it seems to be presenting to the members. It is all about how you feel. The Bible itself is secondary, as is basic righteousness, or rightness. Common sense. Interpretational consistency. All goes out the window in the subjective LC. If you don't "get life" you don't do it. And if Lee didn't "get life" from something, then neither can you.

All of which leads to some strange and very unchristian stuff. Eventually the disconnect becomes so glaring it is impossible not to notice. People who should always get love are treated as "straw to be burned" because why? They aren't absolute for this week's ministry message? What is the basis here? Subjectivism unhinged and unrestrained. "There is no one to restrain the madness of the prophet" indeed. The safety of multiple counselors, cited repeatedly in Proverbs, is completely absent in the LC. Whatever WL wanted to talk about today was "God's oracle."

The glory of the gospel, for me, is in its simplicity. God's love reaches everyone, not just those who fit our subjective comfort zones. God's power raised Jesus from the dead. God's light shines into the darkness, and mine is the worst, so why should I judge anyone? But rather God forgives, so I don't worry about anyone else's "subjective Christ" over-riding the word of the Bible in front of me.

Anyway I'm writing to say thank you for writing. I write too much, and often wish others would share their experiences. There's a need for people to realize there is indeed life, and "Christ", outside the LC. Thank you for sharing yours.

In Him always.

Thank you aron and everybody else who kindly responded to my post....praise God in Christ Jesus, saints! His goodness and fellowship is faithful! This morning I was reflecting on one persons 'testing' of the teaching we received in the witness lee ministry about Satan himself dwelling in our flesh, I believe it was Nigel Tomes who wrote on this subject and refuted this idea with scripturs? Please correct me if I am wrong. That article was entirely eye opening to me...of course this lee teaaching I received at the time, but now, I see, of course, Satan CANNOT INDWELL ALL BELIEVERS because he is a fallen angel, not having omniscience nor omnipresence as our Lord Savior Christ does....

Realizing this teaching was completely in error made me realize that Lee and co. could be wrong about absolutely anything...

I agree with the Lord and several posters here....we should test all things, hold fast the good, leave the rest for the trashcan. Forgive me, that is not the accurate quote...oftentimes the Lord leaves me with a very strong impression of the truth, but not exactly His perfect wording...

Another scriptural truth I am choosing to believe over Lees word is in 1John 5.....for everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

I do! And this verse is one of many which the Lord gave me to shine His light into the darkness I was fed in the local church! I believe Him and His word, utterly! And how many other Lee teachings miss the mark completely, I am left wondering...

I know for sure the dividing from saints without the conditons set forth in the Word is unscriptual and abhorrent! And I will, by His mercy, never participate in such a body damaging practice. Again, thank you, saints! The warm responses from everybody really blessed me...

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

This morning I was reflecting on one persons 'testing' of the teaching we received in the witness lee ministry about Satan himself dwelling in our flesh, I believe it was Nigel Tomes who wrote on this subject and refuted this idea with scripturs? Please correct me if I am wrong. That article was entirely eye opening to me...of course this lee teaaching I received at the time, but now, I see, of course, Satan CANNOT INDWELL ALL BELIEVERS because he is a fallen angel, not having omniscience nor omnipresence as our Lord Savior Christ does....

Realizing this teaching was completely in error made me realize that Lee and co. could be wrong about absolutely anything...

byHismercy, can you explain this a little more? What is the context that witness lee taught Satan himself indwells our flesh? What is the refutation (or where could you point me to it)? Thanks in advance.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

byHismercy, can you explain this a little more? What is the context that witness lee taught Satan himself indwells our flesh? What is the refutation (or where could you point me to it)? Thanks in advance.

It is the two trees in the garden of Eden. The tree of life represented God, and Lee taught that by eating the tree of knowledge, Satan got into our flesh -- like the so-called "original sin."

[Evangelical]

If Satan does not indwell the flesh, how come believers can do evil things?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is the two trees in the garden of Eden. The tree of life represented God, and Lee taught that by eating the tree of knowledge, Satan got into our flesh -- like the so-called "original sin."

After man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, "Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil".

I never understood how the tree of knowledge could represent Satan (and partaking of it meant partaking of Satan) since God stated that the man became like God once he ate of it.

I asked an elder that question several months back: "was it the tree itself that was the problem and sin entered through taking in of the tree? or was it the act of disobedience that was the problem and there was nothing inherently 'wrong' with the tree but sin entered through the act?" He didn't have an answer but did reference Romans 5:12 about sin entering into the world through one man.

I've always grown up with "life good, knowledge bad" as evidenced by the two trees (and of course there is the verse that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life) but .... is that just an interpretation of Genesis by W.Lee that is not commonly held elsewhere or is that generally accepted, or is this one of those still-debated topics today?