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The Local Church in the 21st Century Observations and Discussions regarding the Local Church Movement in the Here and Now |
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04-14-2018, 05:30 AM | #1 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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04-14-2018, 06:04 AM | #2 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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04-14-2018, 07:08 AM | #3 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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You need to hear this man. You’re living in a fantasy land shaped by the LSM and your own decieved thoughts. I don’t expect you to take any care to my words, and that is fine. But you can’t plead ignorance of reality on that day.
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04-14-2018, 08:33 AM | #4 |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
It's near Disney Land where Living Stream Ministry office is located. We rarely see the difference between them.
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04-15-2018, 07:35 AM | #5 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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Disillusioned and sad, yes. But, I'm sympathetic bc I used to be in those shoes and my family is. You can't argue logic when you're so addicted to the lifestyle your biases get in the way. |
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04-15-2018, 10:50 AM | #6 |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
some of the most burdensome memories on my conscience is the ways that we willingly misrepresented our group to fellow students. I'm glad many saw the way out, and I hope they've forgiven us.
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04-15-2018, 10:59 AM | #7 |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
I also regret having done that, but thankfully in most cases, the newcomers were more keen to what was going on than those of use who were running the club. They realized we were a front for something, even though we were unwilling to admit that ourselves.
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Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. |
04-14-2018, 07:32 PM | #8 |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
Which denomination hides behind Intervarsity? Which denomination hides behind the Navigators? Which denomination hides behind Campus Crusade for Christ, now known as Cru? When I was in junior college I was a member of the Baptist Student Union. It's the LSM local churches of Lee that hide behind the name "Christians on Campus". Dear E, you have been in your Anaheim LSM rat hole for too long. It's long past time for you to retire.
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Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith." (KJV Version) Look to Jesus not The Ministry. |
04-15-2018, 03:02 PM | #9 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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I know for fact that most workers in these groups attend some denomination every Sunday. As a student I would like to know their true affiliations especially if they are catholics or Mormons on a Sunday. They appear a cohesive body as Navigators or whatever but Sunday reveals they are still fragmented and divided with some denominational affiliation they do not tell students about. |
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04-15-2018, 07:30 AM | #10 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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Got it! I respectfully disagree with your logic and it's apparently clear this back and forth isn't going anywhere. I'm going to move on now- thank you. |
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04-15-2018, 03:05 PM | #11 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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04-15-2018, 04:04 PM | #12 |
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Time for some facts
HERn wrote:
Which denomination hides behind Intervarsity? Which denomination hides behind the Navigators? Which denomination hides behind Campus Crusade for Christ, now known as Cru? The answer is "I don't know", because both organizations do not reveal clearly. This is from their respective wikipedia pages: InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA is an inter-denominational, evangelical Christian campus ministry founded in 1941, working with students and faculty on U.S. college and university campuses. The Navigators is a worldwide Christian para-church organization headquartered in Colorado Springs, Colorado The term inter-denominational means "relating to more than one religious denomination". They do not state clearly which denominations they are including. Mormons? Catholics? Russian orthodox? Pentecostal? The term "para-church" means "alongside the church". Again ,they are not clear about which churches they are "alongside". Got questions.org says this about parachurch ministries: https://www.gotquestions.org/parachurch-ministries.html On the negative side is what was stated above in the definition: parachurch ministries are usually independent of church oversight. These organizations don’t have the same structure as the local church, which is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15). The local church is God’s plan for the building up of the saints to do the work of the ministry, and He has gifted believers to accomplish that goal (Ephesians 4:11-12). Biblically it is the local church, not inter-church or para-church organizations which God has equipped to do the work on campuses. As far as I know, Christians on Campus is the only local church presence on campuses that would satisfy Ephesians 4:11-12 and 1 Timothy 3:15. This is because they are directly tied to the local church whereas others are only inter or para church organizations with no clear indication of where they stand in relation to the wider Body of Christ. These groups are also not equipped to "add to the church" Acts 2:47 after making converts. As revealed by one intervarsity advice website on "how to find a church: https://intervarsity.org/blog/how-find-church-college “How am I supposed to find the church that God has in mind for me?” There’s no exact answer, but there are a few actions you can take. In the bible do we see new converts asking questions like "How am I supposed to find the church that God has in mind for me?" Of course not. There was only one church, and God only had one church in mind for all believers, just as there is only one Lord, Body, Spirit etc. Furthermore, their advice is dreadful as they do not encourage asking God but asking Mr Internet: "try the website www.9marks.org or your denomination’s website. " Some of the testimonies is also funny: "When I started college, I sought a big non-denominational church, but God surprised me with a mid-sized Presbyterian church. Each time, I began by asking myself, “Which place is most like me?” Then I progressed to asking God, “OK, fine, which place is most like what I need?”" This sounds a lot like church shopping doesn't it? This advice reflects the general self-catering advice in Christianity that a "church is for me, my needs, wants and desires". But the bible is clear that God is and we should be "for the church". Again, the early church believers did not have to wrestle with such questions, let alone ask God for a particular church, let alone expect God to provide them a church which is best for their own needs. Invarsity has shown that they do not understand the concept of the local church nor God's plan and desire to use the local church in building up the Body of Christ. Converts made through their ministry are left clue-less as to which church to attend on a Sunday and for the rest of their life after leaving college. Their advice will only build up the local denominations which cater to people's self-serving needs, and hence continue the plethora of "church flavors" available to choose from. I would not be surprised if some of the local denominations contribute financially to these organizations, with the expectation that these organizations will, in kind, return the favor by directing students to them on a Sunday. I also think that the volunteers and leaders in these organizations are often pastors or youth pastors themselves, attached to some local denomination, which will bias their advice and doctrine towards that particular denomination. They typically hide their denominational affiliations while working on the campuses, which makes it appear to students that Christianity is one big unified body. Yet, each Sunday, every volunteer or worker in these organizations will disperse to attend their respective preferred denominations, proving the divided reality. |
04-15-2018, 06:00 PM | #13 |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
From my interactions with the different evangelical para-church groups on campuses none are functioning to send members to one evangelical denomination to the exclusion of other evangelical denominations. All the para-church groups recommend that their members should also be members of a genuine local church, not just a LSM associated local church.
I'm sure that the JW, Morman, and other non-evangelical college groups refer there students to JW and Morman chuches; just like the LSM Christians on Campus refer students to LSM Local Churches.
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Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith." (KJV Version) Look to Jesus not The Ministry. |
04-15-2018, 06:11 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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Do these evangelical organizations ever refer students to Catholic churches? If they were baptists or presbyterians themselves would they ever? As we see from HERn's post, the meaning of "inter-church" and "para-church" refers only to evangelical churches. Now it is becoming apparent that these inter and para-church organizations are selective about which churches they support (are they truly local, therefore?). In reviewing the websites of these organizations, I find no indication that they are primarily evangelical or support evangelical churches primarily. For example, the Navigators website has no indication that they are evangelical and not Catholic. To obtain this information I have to go to gotquestions.org: The Navigators is an evangelical Christian ministry https://www.gotquestions.org/Navigators.html This Catholic forum also proves that they are committed to one particular branch of Christianity, and are possibly anti-Catholic and target Catholics in their preaching: https://forums.catholic.com/t/naviga...church/22485/2 leastofthese wrote previously: These groups are not about growing a local church or a denomination - they're about growing the Body. Poor leastofthese , once again the facts speak for themselves and proves you wrong. As I have shown, these are evangelical groups about growing the branch of Christianity known as evangelicalism. |
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04-17-2018, 10:16 AM | #15 | |
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Re: Deceptions on Campus
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If there were Christians from denominations or other Christians groups involved with CoC- then calling themselves CoC would make sense! Then, your argument that there is no specific group or denomination associated with them would apply! Please don't attack my logic or reasoning skills when you're (respectfully) coming to conclusions that don't add up based on what the situation is with CoC. CoC is run by full-timers, who are adults...with college age kids in the local church assisting them. There are NO other groups who are included in heading up CoC and I seriously doubt they would welcome them or welcome any other material, other than the Bible, in CoC meetings besides LSM material. They are clearly using exclusive LSM material only, and only run by members in the local church. So, respectfully, you're incorrect to say that there is no distinct group CoC is associated with. Also, I'm agreeing to disagree that they should be called CoC (as it's a common cult recruiting tactic to have recruiting groups with a different name than the group) and believe they should be called "the local church in <said locality> on campus" (or some equivalent that includes the local church name) because although the "work" is different- the people running it are one and the same. Also, you think my head would explode if I lived in the age of Paul? Wow, well I'll have to agree to disagree again! By the grace of God, Paul saw religion for what it was. What is the goal of CoC? I feel I have a pretty good idea but I think we should all think about that one.... |
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christians on campus, deception |
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