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Old 01-11-2009, 07:38 PM   #1
Indiana
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 596
Default Steve Isitt (Indiana) testimony

www.TwoTurmoils.com/MyExperienceintheLocalChurches.pdf


My Experience in the Local Churches – Steve Isitt
Originally a letter, 2005
Edited and changed now for fellowship with others
In August of 1970 I came to my first meeting after the saints met a friend of mine during a gospel
stroll at Green Lake. Joel Kennon had talked to my friend and gave him a card that said “Oh taste
and see that the Lord is good”. Dan then came to my home that day and gave the card to me. He
told me with enthusiasm about the people he had met that day, saying, “they say you can actually
taste the Lord in their meetings.” I went to the meeting the next day alone.
Immediately, I was impressed with the two brothers greeting people at the door. An older brother
with the warmest smile and gentlest manner shook my hand and ushered me in to be with the
people I was to spend the next thirty years with. They had just come up from Yorba Linda, CA
that summer.

People at that meeting were eating Jesus and smiling and looking back at me constantly. They
were quite interested in me, and I had never seen or felt anything like it before. They were tasting
the Lord and it was evident. I knew I wasn’t like them.

I laughed because it was so unusual and enjoyable at the same time. I still remember certain
testimonies in that meeting and their singing, “Let’s take the land Oh Christian brothers”. One
brother shared that he thought the meaning of life was getting a higher education so he could get
the best job - then he found Christ, and the church! Another brother said he thought traveling
around the world would be what he wanted in life. While sitting in an airplane in the rain one
night at a German airport with rainwater rolling down the glass as he looked outside, he had a
sense of the vanity of life. Then he testified, too, of finding Christ, and the church. The third
testimony I remember was by a sister who said that she thought the meaning of life was getting
married, but after getting married she soon found that she was not satisfied; so, she thought
having children would then give her satisfaction in life. That didn’t please her either in the
deepest part of her being. Then she testified, glowing in the Lord, that she had found Christ and
the church, and that this was the meaning of life and God’s purpose for man. All the saints were
aglow, in fact, with the most heavenly, radiant smiles. I had contacted the church during a revival
that had begun in 1969. These people were so released, enjoyable, and real.

I found out after the meeting as they were setting up for a dinner that it had been a wedding
meeting for a couple. The couple simply signed papers after the meeting. I couldn’t believe it,
and people laughed at me, or with me, at my reaction to this and to all that I was witnessing. I
was amazed at how the people worked together happily – young, old, little children – everyone
was happy, and there was a special presence about them all.

I was invited to dinner for the next day at the Freeman’s, and there I was invited to the Kennon’s
for dinner scheduled for a few days later. I had quite an introduction to Christ, and the church.
Four months later I moved into the brothers house with twelve brothers. Morning watch was at
5:30, and the brothers were diligent to attend. I began to go to all the meetings of the church
regularly, and a year and a half later migrated, following a conference in Los Angeles on the book
of Matthew.

So, from Jan 4, 1971 to August 1972 I was in the church in Seattle. I was married six months
after coming into the church to Kristy Hannus, the first one gained by the saints in Seattle, she
was a student at UW in her third year. She felt the church had come just for her and really met
her need at that critical time in her life. She moved in with Janet and John Begosian, where they
held home meetings till the rest of the saints arrived and a meeting hall was secured. Kristy
became Roth Williamson’s secretary.

That first year many saints were added to the church, including Pat and LeAnn Stocklin, Russ and
Carolyn Schull, and Sherman and Diane Robertson. Ray Desimone came in the next year as a
student at UW. I saw dear brother Sherman come into his first meeting, and I watched him
throughout. He was exactly what you want to see in a new one, he seemed to be receiving every
word and was highly impressed with what he had found. He came right into the church. Joel
Kennon gave a message that evening on the world. It was an excellent word. In fact, he said
something that altered my life and brought me into a deeper spiritual experience, as I began to
practice what he said right away. He said we need to “nip in the bud” the thoughts and
temptations of the world. What a salvation that was to me as I began to choose life constantly
and faithfully, denying the thoughts of ungodliness and worldly lusts. Christ became my life and
content for the church, which helped me immensely to endure the hardship of starting a new
church life in the Midwest. Another crucial habit I picked up after one year in the church was the
morning watch, which was strongly encouraged and practiced by the saints. The first book I
enjoyed reading and pray-reading was Psalms. It took nine months to complete. This little song
in our first supplement became my reality in my new locality: “To be nourished with Christ, to
be built up in life, to be filled with the Lord and be freed from all strife; call His name, pray His
word, breath by breath, hour by hour, and the riches of Christ will flow in you in power. Call,
pray-read, call, pray-read, breathe and drink, drink and feed, breathe His name, drink the same,
and feasting on His word maintain.” These two practices, feeding on the Lord in His word first
thing in the morning and nipping in the bud the things of the world, propelled me into the
spiritual life and into the reality of Christ and the church.

At the 3-week conference in Los Angeles on the kingdom in Matthew a call went out for
migrations. There were four cities that the brothers had in mind before the Lord: Philadelphia,
Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis. Pat and LeAnn went to Minneapolis and so did Tom
and Lois. Sherman and Diane went to Milwaukee, and Kristy and I went to Indianapolis. Others
went also from the Northwest, and we joined those migrating from Los Angeles and other places
to become the church in that migrated-to city, or to stand as the church in that city. It was a
marvelous time. Conferences were held frequently throughout the country to build up the
churches. Once in 1972 Brother Lee held a conference in Indianapolis, then encouraged us all to
go to Akron. I went. The conferences were always a big springboard for us all to go on in the
churches. How happy everybody was! Any conference in Los Angeles was a must, and it was
not uncommon for people to quit jobs if they had to, to go. In my seven years in the Midwest I
went to other conferences in Cleveland, Milwaukee, Detroit, Toronto, Boston, and Atlanta. In the
‘70’s I visited Minneapolis, St. Louis, and also Dallas (sent there on business).
Consolidation of Churches

In 1974 there was a consolidation of those newer, smaller, and inexperienced churches to places
like Chicago. The saints from Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, and St. Louis were
encouraged to move to Chicago where there was a larger and more experienced church for their
going on. Because of a strong pull and attraction in Seattle, and due to good things that were
happening there and because of fellowship they received, some felt they needed to go back there.
I myself could not do that. My definite sense within was to stay in the locality I was placed to be
one with the saints for the building up of the church there. My strong natural desire was to return
to Seattle, and I was encouraged to do so by two elders in Seattle. I knew the difference between
my natural desire to go back to be with those saints and my spiritual sense to stay. I had life to
stay, and I had peace. I became miserable when I considered going.

There was no law about the consolidation, people were free to go where they chose before the
Lord. The Stocklins, the Washingtons, and the Robertsons moved back to the Northwest. Sherman
had become an elder first in Milwaukee, then I believe after a time in Seattle he moved to Bellevue
to help with the eldership there where at least he and Roth coordinated for several years.

We continued on in Chicago from 1974 till 1979. Kristy had wanted to go back for five years to
be near her mother and sisters. Finally, because of that and the toll it was taking on her and on us,
I felt before the Lord to go. And, in fellowship it seemed good to go for her sake. Again, my
natural preference was to go, and I wanted to be careful with such a move, but simply was
brought to respond to her need. I wasn’t so sensitive as she was about the need for family and
grandmas and grandpas. I considered the church as my family. Now I see there needs to be a
balance, and the capacities and interests of persons involved needs to be considered. In other
words, an unhappy wife makes for an unhappy marriage, which affects the church life.

Move to Federal Way
We moved to Federal Way in October 1979, where I was able to get a job right away as a
computer programmer with Rainier Bank. Kristy’s relatives lived in or near Auburn. She was
from Enumclaw originally. We immediately became needed there. She played piano in the
meetings, they had no one at that time who could play so were quite glad she arrived. This
participation was a help to her. I became involved in children’s meetings, as I had been in
Chicago and Indianapolis. Another brother and I were responsible for the children’s meetings in
Indianapolis, and Bill Cady and I and three sisters, Wanda Billheimer was one, were responsible
for children’s meetings in Federal Way. (I was to later join Jim Bundy in Seattle to help
coordinate the children’s meetings after the leaders and others left during the time of trouble.)
Bill Cady, Jim Billheimer, Ruben Pizarro and I began to meet with the two brothers responsible
for the church in Federal Way, Terry Rosengarten and Greg Parker. Bill Cady, Ruben, and I also
met separately to desperately pray for the church and for the elders. Sisters were praying
desperately also. I strongly moved us in Federal Way into the habit and practice of corporate
morning watch, which I had practiced and learned through my migration and consolidation
experience in Indianapolis and Chicago. We needed more hunger for the Lord and a sense of
desperation that would compel us to leave the comfort of our beds and to come to the Lord daily
for our personal time with the Him, and then we needed to come together corporately, as many
that could and were willing. Six months after the morning watch began, the Lord led the church
to stop, and move to Seattle or Bellevue. So, Jim and Wanda went to Bellevue, and have
contributed well there. Steve and Patty Kelley went to Bellevue and grew in the Lord. John and
Karen Meyer were married in Federal Way and moved to Bellevue. I have been amazed at their
growth also. Bill and Ruth Cady went to Bellevue and Bill has done very well in the church life.
Greg and Jill Parker went to Bellevue. Kristy and I went to Seattle. Terry and Jan Rosengarten
went to Denver. Ruben and Darlene Pizarro went to San Antonio. The church in Federal Way
was no more.

The Church in Seattle
These moves took place in 1983, and I very much wanted to become involved in the church life
in Seattle now. At that time Brother Lee was in the throes of considering a new way in the
churches, which was to solidify in his thinking the next year when he presented the new way as
the Lord’s new move in the recovery. For a few months in 1983-84 prior to the new way I
brought five brothers together to care for the gospel. I had been taking in this ministry for years
and wanted to preach the gospel in a coordinated way with others. Every Saturday afternoon at
1:00 we dropped whatever we were doing and came together to pray and to go! We went to
Green Lake, and we particularly went to the UW campus.

How enjoyable this was! Marty Young, who later became an elder, said of that time, “It was
glorious.” We spontaneously brought new ones into a home meeting on one occasion and saints
were brought into function to care for them. This was a taste and a little bit of what was to be
announced by Brother Lee in October 1984 as the new way.

He wanted to see the church life brought more into the homes for the bearing of fruit with new
ones and the shepherding of one another in small group meetings for the building up of the Body
in love, through prayer, the Word (truth), and the Spirit.

Dave Loch and Haller Lake
We moved in 1986 to the Haller Lake area. We were walking distance from Dave and Valerie
Loch’s home. They lived two doors down from the original meeting place for the church in
Seattle where I had gone to my first meeting. One evening Dave invited me to his home to meet
you and your husband and have a little get together in the Lord. I have already related my
experience to you of that evening. I do wish we could have continued together on a weekly basis.
I could have thrived in such fellowship. As it was, I was on a slow downward trend and many
others were struggling also.

I kept record in a diary of spiritual progress and experiences in those days, with the gospel and in
dealing with the Lord. At a certain point my recordkeeping stopped. Many saints in Seattle had
been dormant since the new way began and eventually many of them moved to Scottsdale. As
much as I wanted to go on in the new way, I wasn’t going on. We made a move to Lake Forest
Park in 1987 and in October 1987 I went to Taipei. Phil and Sherry Neher had been to our home
and the brother encouraged me much in the Lord to go.

Taipei
John Little, from the Southeast at that time, stated in a book that his time spent in Taipei was the
best experience in his Christian life. I felt the same way. To be transported across oceans to the
other side of the world to spend a completely concentrated time with the saints in the recovery
was glorious! I didn’t want to leave Taipei because of the daily practice of the God-ordained way
and the deep registration within of its validity. We could finally focus on gospel preaching,
shepherding, teaching the truth, and prophesying in the meetings. The three-week period I was
there was packed with valuable experiences and learning.

I want to share with you some particularly memorable times. I was out with my beloved gospel
team during a typhoon one evening. Smaller trees were bent completely at 90 -degree angles, and
the monsoon rains were blowing in our faces to where we had to walk backwards, looking
forward over our shoulder enough to progress. That night we had our best experience; we
baptized six people throughout the ordeal. We were electrified. The people were impressed that
we were out on such a night. The next day streets were flooded up to our waist, and we couldn’t
make it to our destination. We seemed to be stopped, but used the time right where we were to go
into the apartments and preach the gospel. That night a brother overflowed in the big meeting,
sharing with the saints our experience and of bringing people to the Lord and baptizing them.
The next day we made it to Hall 23 and it was flooded. The dear brothers, Benson Phillips, Paul
Hon, Andrew Yu and a couple of other brothers (maybe Jake and Howard Higashi) were visiting
there. The electricity was not working and we could only see by candlelight. The brothers were
just standing there, observing at first, watching over the situation as some saints were dealing
with the flood problems, others were coming back from gospel outings and fellowshipping about
needs. The brothers were rejoicing as were others and there was singing in that blessed
atmosphere It reminded me of the Upper Room. It was a rather intimate time, with everyone so
exhausted from travel, climbing stairs, preaching the gospel, and problems caused by the
flooding, but they were also uplifted by the presence of the Lord and one another’s spirit.

Upon Returning to Seattle
When I got back to Seattle, my family gathered around me to welcome me back and hear about
my experience. I had been in a blessed realm and wanted to continue with the new way
experience in my locality and to help bring my family and the church into the new way. I didn’t
realize that this task would not be easy. We have work and family responsibilities and daily
concerns and activities that can so easily interfere with making progress. And, the enemy, Satan,
is against the establishing of the saints in vital home meeting fellowship. I did not get established
in a home meeting upon return to Seattle. My home situation was needing attention, and my son
was causing a lot of strife and problem. He was a freshman in high school, and, though we didn’t
know it at the time, he was on drugs. We didn’t find this out till the end of his senior year. My
wife left at the end of his freshman year.

Alone
I was alone with my boys, and raised them through their high school years. I was not much in the
church life part of that time, but I kept in contact with Marty Young and when I did go, I went to
meetings on the Lord’s Day morning and to many of the video meetings in the evening, which
were shown twice a week for some time. However, I would go 3-4 months without meeting each
year over a six-year period.

In 1989 Richard Martin came to live with me for three months. In 1990 Bill Cady came to live
with me for two months. In 1992 a family moved into our cottage for a month and into our
house also. The mother and daughter were in the cottage and the two boys in the house. We also
had a boy from Spokane staying with us. Kids were all over, and I was usually taking care of
them all, but it was fine with me, I was glad not to be alone.

I still desired to get into the matters of the new way and never left that hope and desire. It was in
me to practice this, and I was fully supportive of the new way and of the church. I simply wasn’t
getting any traction. I began to have morning watch with Bill Cady by phone, then took another
step.

Morning Watch Again
In October of 1992 I called Ray Christianson and asked him to meet for morning watch. He was
struggling terribly in his marriage with his wife, a true opposer to the church, and I wanted to
bring him into the life-supply in the word and in the ministry first thing in the morning. I needed
help, and he needed help. I also contacted Marty Young and three other brothers, Doug
Anderson, Howard DeYoung, and Neil Beaton. I wanted to get people around me because I
wasn’t making progress in the new way and in the church, and was too much alone and isolated.
I also had become distracted by the world. I needed to get connected. I was given the key to the
meeting hall by Joel Kennon to begin meeting with these brothers.

Each brother had serious problems at home in their marriage. I made a report to Joel about each
one, and encouraged him much in the Lord toward them to help. The most pressing need was
with Ray, so I wrote first about him, and longest concerning his need.

Virtually every day Ray and I were together by phone or in person over the next four years. I
wanted him to tell me everything about his relationship, and he was glad to do it. He knew I
cared about him and for his getting through. He had been under the control of his wife for twenty
years. She only allowed him one meeting a month and was a torment at home on the subject of
the church. I shared with Joel that this had to stop. He fully agreed. Joel or John Brooks began
to meet with Ray once a week and I met with Ray daily. We were all on the same page
concerning him.

On the one hand, we encouraged Ray to be very supportive of his wife, because she is his wife,
and he must love her and care for her. On the other hand, he did not have to be controlled by her.
He was being kept from meeting with the saints and was not free to serve the Lord as he greatly
desired to do. Although he had a substantial income and was materialistically blessed with home,
boat, cabin, etc., his heart was for the Lord and for the church. Through the fellowship and
support he received, he began to assert himself and establish a schedule that was reasonable for
him. He did so, not without a good deal of resistance though. His wife had to learn to be
reasonable, while at the same time be accommodated by her husband.

Communicating With Elders and LSM
Sometimes in the church life we have problems with one another. As Brother Lee said, “offenses
are unavoidable”, as close as we are through our frequent gathering. The first time I had
problems with elders I had written three tracts for distribution on my own and gave them to the
brothers for their consideration to use for the church. There were no gospel tracts available to the
saints at that time. After six weeks when I did not hear from the brothers, I pulled the tracts from
the elders’ business office box where I had placed them. I was quite frustrated, because I also had
not heard from them all the time I had been struggling. After a week I placed the tracts back in
the box and was to go another six weeks without hearing from them. Finally I heard from them
and they received the tracts for the church. John Brooks then asked me to contact LSM to get
their permission to use certain quotes from the ministry that I was using in the tracts. It was to be
two years before I heard from LSM, and that came because I confronted Andrew Yu about it
when he was in Seattle giving a conference. He humbly admitted that they don’t answer
anyone’s request of that sort, but “drop the letter into a box”, and forget about it.

These experiences with the elders and LSM, along with the elders showing no care or concern in
the months and years I had been struggling, opened me up to consider the what the reasons were
for such insensitivity. I realized that there was much focus and attention on the young people,
while others didn’t receive such care. This became a great concern to me because we had lost
many people during the new way, confusion was in the air, and there was a focus of attention that
was not on the whole Body, but on a certain group.

The Book Matter
In 1996 I had quite a bizarre encounter with two elders that would be impossible to relate
adequately here. This, along with what I have mentioned previously, put me in a very concerned
state of mind for where we were as the church, and for our real condition and situation. Brother
Lee also continuously spoke of his concern for where we were, and he poured out messages to the
elders on our basic need: he said things like, “the recovery has come to a standstill, and we can’t
go on without the shepherding”. He gave a classic message, Love Prevails, saying, “love is the
most excellent way. It is the way to be an elder, a co-worker”, a brother and a sister. He also
ministered other messages on love, such as are now contained in the book, A Word of Love.

In that book, he said some things that touched the heart of God and resonated in the beings of
elders and saints everywhere. One portion that serves to enlarge our hearts and our vision
follows:
WL - “I am trying my best to help the church to build up the vital groups with such a
shepherding spirit full of love and care for others. We need to have this kind of love and go
to tell all the dormant ones who think the church condemns them that the church does not
condemn anyone. Rather, the church wants to see all the dormant ones come back. If they
all would come back I would weep with tears of thanksgiving to the Lord. The Lord can
testify for me that I do not condemn anyone. We have no qualification to condemn anyone.
Without the Lord’s mercy, we would be the same as the dormant ones. Therefore, we must
love them. It all depends upon love, as the wise king Solomon said, “Love covers all
transgressions” (Pr. 10:12). We love people. We love the opposers, and we love the top
rebels. I really mean it. We love them and do not hate them. Who am I? I am not qualified
to condemn or to hate. Am I perfect? Even the prophet Isaiah, when he saw the Lord, said,
“woe is me, for I am finished / I am a man of unclean lips, / And in the midst of a people of
unclean lips I dwell” (Is. 6:5). Who is clean today? If we criticize people and say something
bad about them, we are not clean.” (p. 32)

Having such a God of love, I became encouraged in 1996 to seek out those who had left the
church to find out from them directly their reasons for leaving. I had read in a book about the
reasons that others gave for their leaving, but when I went to them, I found an altogether different
side to the story. Things began to come together in my heart as to what our problem was in the
recovery.

I presented a “book” to the brothers in Anaheim and to Joel and Marty in Seattle. Joel gave a
copy to Sherman. Basically, I wanted to address certain matters that I became aware of
concerning our history that I felt might be helpful if we reviewed them. I was quite struck about
these matters that had never been presented to us publicly in the churches and that had such
significant impact on the oneness in the churches. In short, what I meant to be a means of
communication unto healing of many relationships in the Body was not received in the spirit I
meant for it to be taken, and I was placed in a discipline mode until I could repent. It has been
four and a half years now.

Tony Chee received a couple of explanation letters from me, and in an elders’ meeting he said to
the brothers early on that he felt I just needed to be brought into the fellowship. He, and other
brothers, received a letter from me apologizing for upsetting them with the “book”. I said that the
Lord isn’t able to use it among us now, so I lay it aside and desire to just go on in the church. I
was not going to press this matter if the brothers did not want to open to meaningful dialogue
with me. However, I wasn’t allowed to continue in the church life, and I have been caste as an
outsider by the elders, some saints being told not to associate with me. Dan Towle, upon reading
my little “book”, In the Wake of the New Way, had recommended to Sherman Robertson , leading
elder in Bellevue, that I be set aside. I was shocked. I had originally written to Dan “for
fellowship” only to end up in a kind of prison. My letter to Dan, January, 2001, follows:

Letter to Dan Towle

Dear Brother Dan,
“I have written a little book for the sake of fellowship, mainly with leading ones, concerning our
past sixteen-year history of the new way. I think this period of time in the Lord’s recovery
warrants our careful study of both the benefits and the costs to the church in what was such a
highly controversial move among us in those beginning years.

“I wanted to come to you because I feel it is safe to do so. If I am inaccurate or unfair in some
way, perhaps you are the most qualified one to catch me that I could either make an adjustment
or terminate the proposed fellowship.”

I went on, “I hope we can have a good, thorough, and upright fellowship over this booklet
called In the Wake of the New Way, while remembering the Lord’s prayer ‘that they all may be
one’ and the repeated petitions from our brother Lee, not only to heed the trumpet call for the
Lord’s new move, but also to respond to the call for the rendering of care to every member for the
building up of the Body in love…”

I would welcome your phone call or e-mail message at 425- 445-1732 and sisitt@msn.com. I
don’t intend for this booklet to be widespread; rather, I hope that ones who do receive it could do
so in the Lord, with a holy regard and respect given to those who left the recovery, and a godly
consideration rendered to those who remain, but who are in need of more significant care.”
Dan was the second leading one in the recovery to get a booklet. Joel Kennon was the third.
There were only six elders or leading ones that were to receive a booklet through me, each by
careful and prayerful consideration. There were only six other saints in the recovery who I
personally sent or gave the booklet to, again with care. My objective was feedback and genuine
fellowship over the matters I presented.

My understanding had been that all things can be resolved through fellowship, which is what I
wanted the booklet to initiate. I didn’t hear back from Dan. I had also invited Joel in my e-mail
cover letter to “press into the Lord” with me on these matters that I wrote about and especially
concerning former leading ones who were open and desirous of reconciling fellowship. I
wanted his covering, advice, monitoring, and fellowship. He did not respond either. The booklet
was also to build a bridge of communication to the hundreds of dear saints who were no longer
meeting in the recovery.

Instead of getting the fellowship I had requested, I was vilified for associating with certain ones
who left the recovery. Both Joel Kennon in Seattle and Sherman Robertson in Bellevue were
very agitated when they spoke to me separately, and they sharply rebuked me for contacting a
certain brother, who was cut off by the churches. Yet, ironically, it was with this brother where I
found Christ, which I could not find with any elder. Other former leading ones also expressed
love for me and understood my experience. They also had empathy for the elders, and
understood their behavior, having conducted themselves similarly at one time.

As a result of the discipline mode I was in, there was no church life for me, and my spirit stirred
in my isolation. I then did further study and was amazed at what we have not heard in the church
that is an untold very meaningful part of our history. Any brother that has read this material has
had a change of heart regarding the so-called rebellion and rebellious ones. In order to get the
attention of the brothers concerning the obvious discrepancies in testimony related to the division
that occurred among us, I issued more writings, documents, and letters. I was certain the former
leaders were not represented according to the Lord’s feeling or based on the facts of the actual
history among us.

I wrote to Francis Ball and Dan Towle to encourage them to have fellowship with John Ingalls,
Bill Mallon, and Ken Unger and to open their hearts to one another. When they did not take me
seriously, I went onto the internet to share the real story, hoping that then they would take matters
seriously. When they did not respond, I took the site down.

Sherman Robertson
In my efforts to address serious concerns to the brothers, I have met a brick wall and have
become a marked person. The following is my letter to Sherman Robertson, a leader in Bellevue,
who had written two letters to me. It is significant to note that this dear brother has not spent a
minute of time with me in a positive way, as was true about Joel Kennon and Seattle elders and is
also the case with the other Bellevue elders. None of them know me, yet Sherman, representing
them all, still shamelessly issued forth charges against me that were completely false, to say the
least, fully misrepresenting the Lord and me. I have written to him twice to help him and to gain
him, beginning with the following letter. He did not respond.

January 5, 2005
Dear Sherman,
In your letters you stated that I need to retract things I said on the internet that were not true. I am
prepared to do that, of course, if I have misrepresented anyone or anything in any way.
To bear false witness against another person is such a serious matter that it is one of the Ten
Commandments God gave to His people in the Old Testament: “thou shalt not bear false witness
against your neighbor”.

In my three and a half years in the Bellevue area, I could not establish the fellowship with you
and the brothers, as I had desired. Early on I was taken out of ordinary fellowship before I began
to meet in the church in Bellevue. I had just come from San Diego where an experienced brother
said I was “a boon to the church life” there, referring mainly to my time spent with him and his
wife to help them into the vital groups fellowship and way. We together then helped raise up a
group meeting that was indeed vital. The brother and sister ordered vital groups books at that
time for the bookroom to encourage others into this fellowship. The brother, his wife, and I have
been in the recovery for over thirty years and care very much for the recovery. They both
thanked me for my help and for my burden, since they had been dormant and without help for
many years. They are currently very much involved in the campus work coordination, having
saints in their home every week. I rejoiced with the brother when I heard this.

Coming to the Eastside I wanted to become involved in one or two group meetings and in the
campus work and be fully in the church life. The only participation in the church life I have
achieved has been a morning revival time with a brother where I receive the Word of God and the
words of God’s economy through the ministry of Witness Lee, as has been my practice for over
three decades. Following the receiving of the words of God’s economy into us, we pray often for
the carrying out of God’s economy in the saints, with the elders, in all the churches, and in His
move on the earth in different places. I had initiated corporate morning watch in three localities
previously, caring for the enjoyment of the riches of Christ in this ministry - for myself, as well as
for others, and for the church. In these last two paragraphs I have described for you three very
important matters: 1) That I am for the God-ordained way and 2) I am interested in God’s
economy and 3) I am for the recovery. In your two letters you claimed that I am not for these
things.

I want to now mention and acknowledge the following solemn characterizations and charges at
least implied in your two letters concerning me. You had this to say:
1) “You don’t belong in the Lord’s recovery”.
2) I don’t have a “special calling” to be in the Lord’s recovery
3) I am not willing to “pay the price to be in the Lord’s recovery.”
4) I am “not interested in God’s economy” to be carried out by “means of the Godordained
way”.
4) I don’t agree with “God’s way of carrying out the church life in the Bible, which is the
God-ordained way”.
5) I want the recovery to conform to my own “thought and concept”.
6) I do not “make it in the recovery” because I do not “agree with what the recovery stands
for, God’s economy carried out through and by the God-ordained way”.
7) I do not feel that the recovery “matches God’s direction for me”, so I am free to “meet
with another group” or “start my own”.
8) “It is impossible to change an entire group to conform to how you feel”.
9) “Your statements of just wanting to enjoy the Lord and go on mean nothing to me. You
have a HISTORY of damage”.
10) I am “not right with God or with the Body.”
11) “You have most certainly sinned against the entire recovery”.
12) “Your thought about the recovery being wrong is your major problem.”
13) “As long as you think you are right, you have no light on this matter”.
14) “Until you get light you have no way with the Lord”.
15) “Without light, you will never be able to come back to the Lord’s recovery.”
16) “Because you just don’t know how to handle this situation”.
17) “You are completely in the dark.”
18) “Repentance is a mercy that is granted to us only by the Lord. But repentance only
comes when one realizes that he is altogether WRONG.”
19) “If you feel that there are so many things wrong in the Lord’s recovery today, it doesn’t
make any sense that you would want to come back to a place that is so wrong”.
20) “The God-ordained way is most certainly the way the Lord’s recovery is rooted and
grounded in and will be taking until the Lord returns. In this matter there is no turning
back. Remember, the Lord’s recovery is not going to change, NOT FOR YOU, NOT
FOR ANYONE”.

I acknowledge that these references are on record now concerning me and that the charges and
implications are most serious. You, brother Sherman Robertson, elder, have written these words
May 3rd and 4th, 2004 in two letters. In addition, in a phone conversation with you on April 11,
2004, you claimed not only that I was “divisive” but also that “we brothers feel you are the
embodiment of the Accuser of the brethren”.

Sherman, I have learned that it is futile to talk to you or hope for any meaningful dialogue with
you on matters you feel support these grave condemnations. You have not been open to the Lord
or to me for genuine fellowship. This was made plain to me in our first encounter by your stern,
inflexible attitude, and this unbecoming deportment has not changed since. Contrary to what you
believe and assert, I am not against anything in the recovery but the misrepresentation of others,
and your ongoing misrepresentation of me.

In the booklet, In the Wake of the New Way, you thought I was attacking Brother Lee, the
ministry, and the new way. I gave you the wrong impression. I had no intention to attack but to
fellowship over points that I made. My request for fellowship was denied and I was set aside. I
then put the “book” aside and apologized for upsetting the brothers, seeing that there was no
climate for discussion. That should have ended the problem with you but later I was told, “It’s
your concepts we can’t handle, they have to go, and, if you want to go with them, that’s up to
you.” My concepts! “The Body will reject what you’re thinking between your ears”.

Witness Lee ~ “When a person speaks negatively about the ministry you should not
consider that as an attack. We must give people the liberty to express what they feel and
think…To criticize the ministry, to say something bad about the ministry, and even to
oppose the ministry should not be considered as the type of attacking that
was done by Alexander the coppersmith.” - Book 4, Elders’ Training, The Practice of the
Lord’s Recovery, pp 81-82

Writing ~ You considered it an issue that my thoughts were put into writing. Yet, I stated at the
outset that my writing was to be confined for use in fellowship, mainly with leading ones. I made
an appeal to Dan Towle about my burden, saying, “I have written a little book for the sake of
fellowship, mainly with leading ones, concerning our past sixteen-year history of the new way. I
think this period of time in the Lord’s recovery warrants our careful study of both the benefits
and the costs to the church in what was such a highly controversial move among us in those
beginning years.

“I wanted to come to you because I feel it is safe to do so. If I am inaccurate or unfair in some
way, perhaps you are the most qualified one to catch me that I could either make an adjustment
or terminate the proposed fellowship.”
I went on, “I hope we can have a good, thorough, and upright fellowship over this booklet
called In the Wake of the New Way, while remembering the Lord’s prayer ‘that they all may be
one’ and the repeated petitions from our brother Lee, not only to heed the trumpet call for the
Lord’s new move, but also to respond to the call for the rendering of care to every member for the
building up of the Body in love…”

I would welcome your phone call or e-mail message at 425-445-1732 and sisitt@msn.com. I
don’t intend for this booklet to be widespread; rather, I hope that ones who do receive it could do
so in the Lord, with a holy regard and respect given to those who left the recovery, and a godly
consideration rendered to those who remain, but who are in need of more significant care.”
My intention was not to attack anyone or anything. Neither did I write something to promote
division, and I was not aggressive to gain a following by distributing material.

Witness Lee ~ “If any believer who is meeting with any of these sectarian divisions would attend
the meetings of the local churches, or contact the believers meeting in the local churches, he
should not be rejected, as long as he does not promote anything divisive. However, anyone who
is aggressive for and promotes the sectarian divisions should be considered divisive and should
be rejected after a first and second admonition.” Bk 10

Again, I wasn’t aggressive to promote anything except fellowship.
Internet ~ It wasn’t till much later that I tried to bring the brothers’ attention to meaningful
discrepancies in testimony of what happened in the late eighties upheaval. The difference in
testimony is so striking that I was convinced of our need to examine our history carefully using
all the available information necessary, which I had full access to. The obvious impression I
received from my reading of former leading one’s writings is that we have been bearing false
witness in the local churches. Does that mean I’m against the recovery? Or, does that mean that
I am careful concerning the testimony we bear before God and man? If I said something opposite
to what Brother Lee said, does that mean 1) I am attacking him 2) I am not supportive of his
ministry 3) I am violating God’s authority? No. It means I think we need to examine ourselves.
It does not mean that I think the “recovery is so wrong” that I need to “meet somewhere else”. I
have a strong vision and a good appetite. I am happy to stay right here in this ministry with those
who will let me keep the oneness, and the feast with them. I hope you will be one.

Brother Lee once said, “If you don’t think I can make mistakes, you will do damage to me, and
you will do damage to yourself”. In the Ephesians Life-study he said, “I have nevertheless made
many mistakes; even some big mistakes.” (P. 279) Therefore, it was not that Brother Lee was not
capable of making mistakes. He surely was capable.

I felt it was critical for us to address the discrepancies I found in reports, so I encouraged
Dan Towle and Francis Ball to have contact with John Ingalls, Bill Mallon and Ken Unger
in the Anaheim area. There was no response to my appeal from Dan or Francis, though the
latter three brothers were quite favorable for steps to be taken unto reconciliation, as brothers.
Both the idea and I were rejected, even as we were headed toward the courtroom to deal with
what I determined was a comparatively small matter of defamation against us.

The brothers had not been moved by my direct appeal to them for fellowship, but since there was
an atmosphere in the church about dealing with the matter of defamation, I took the opportunity
and the risk to go onto the internet. Dealing with defamation of character and misrepresentation
was on the minds of the brothers, and it was on my mind also. The brothers made their appeals to
Harvest House and the authors in the same way I made my appeal to the brothers. They did not
get the response they wanted, that is, to meet and reason together, as brothers in Christ, over
defamatory portions of a book. And, I did not get cooperation from the brothers to meet and
reason together to consider defamatory portions in our writings. The brothers made several
attempts with Harvest House; I made several attempts with the brothers to meet and to reason
together. Their proposal was rejected by HH, and so were they themselves rejected. My
proposal to the brothers was rejected, and so did the brothers reject me. Harvest House initiated
taking matters into the legal realm by hiring an attorney. The brothers had taken my matter into
the “legal” realm, restricting me from normal church relationship. The brothers also matched HH
in getting legal representation, and they filed a lawsuit to deal with defamation against the
recovery; I decided to go onto the internet to bring our own possible defamation matter to a head
before God, current and former local church members, and the Christian public. The HH
president was not moved by the brothers’ decision to litigate. The brothers were not moved by
me or by my material on the internet. Since our leaders had no interest to respond to me on this
important matter, I stopped and closed the website. Was I aggressive for and promoting
divisions? No. I was making an appeal to the brothers, based on my sober study, to consider the
defamation of character in our own writings.

My problem is not that I am against the recovery, but that I am for it to the extent of wanting us to
consider any misrepresentations of God and man among us. My desire was to present substantial
information for fellowship. You refute me before you know the facts. You judge me severely
before you read the material. You will not even have fellowship with me in a thoughtful, careful
way on the matters.

Conclusion ~ In conclusion, you have given me no liberty whatsoever to express myself. My
writing initially was confined to a few brothers (6) and a few saints (6) for their input and
fellowship and a big case resulted. Brother Lee spoke of the elders’ tendency to build “a small
issue into a major case in the church like a small hill becoming a great mountain.” (Book 11, p.
31) I feel this is exactly what has been done with me, beginning with Dan Towle and spreading
to you and to Joel. My little “book” was primarily meant to be a tool to help build a bridge of
communication to those who were lost among us.


Instead, it became a tool to convict me of wrongs against God’s government, and separate me
from the church. The isolation mode I came into set the stage for committing further “offenses”
in the eyes of leaders and to separate me further from them and from the saints to the point that it
would nearly be impossible for me to be restored from what I’m told.
You, Sherman, have indeed placed yourself in quite a position before God. Without reading the
writings, you still speak. Without knowing me, personally, you still condemn. I feel that you
assume much and that you imagine much, due to a lack of interest in the subject and in me. Your
time spent on the subject is about as much as your time spent on me, which has been no time at
all. With this fact in mind, how can I respect you and what you say regarding me, when you have
no respect for me and the matters I presented for fellowship?
Steve Isitt 9-12-04 (date written)
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
I hope you will read on my current website that I strongly promote the God-ordained way
revealed in the Bible. I wish that every believer everywhere on the entire earth could meet in the
homes under this ministry and care for one another and new ones for the practical building up of
the Body in love.

I would never have developed this website if I had been brought back into fellowship. I would
have been in the church life, with much interest in the 3-strong cord fellowship and the vital
groups. I made a trip to Austin in ’99 and prayed and fellowshipped with Gary Evans and spent
four hours with Mike Lynch on a Saturday morning. I asked to meet with the couple most
involved. I stayed in the home of an elder, Doug Stovall, and he got me in contact with that very
couple, Bill and Linda Dieball, who had me to dinner. They gave me their testimony and showed
me pictures of the 23 brothers around the table in their home. It was quite a time. I was in a
young people’s meeting with Bill and a prayer meeting with Doug and the adults in Mike’s home.
I talked with full-timers on Saturday morning and heard testimonies of “the open heart” and
“open home” being the key to gaining new ones, as they themselves were gained as students in
Austin. I saw the simplicity and the oneness in Austin and came back desiring to be a part of this
in Seattle.

I hope you read the writings that you condemn, and read my positive website too, spend time with
those who know me, and visit me to pray and fellowship in a spirit of love. After making such an
effort to understand me and what I have written and why, I think you will have a change of mind
about the subject of “HISTORY of damage” in the recovery, and begin also to consider your own
against me.

www.twoturmoil.com/forum [The more positive website referred to is down, temporarily]
Steve Isitt

While I remain in this “prison” experience, I still receive all the saints and have fellowship with a
few who receive me and who would like to see a change in the heart of the brothers.
Praise the Lord! As long as my spirit can still rejoice, I feel blessed to be persecuted for
righteousness sake, for that is what is taking place. Again I say, praise the Lord! All things can
work together for good, for the Lord’s purpose and glory! I hope we can all be opened more to
Him.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:03 AM   #2
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Steve,

I know I'm coming in way after the fact, but I really appreciated your testimony.

After reading it my conclusion is : You have really been put thru the wringer by the leaders in the LC.

I think the life of Jesus is your way out. When, for example, are you going to just call them a din of serpents and vipers, like Jesus did? You are dealing with Pharisees ya know.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:45 PM   #3
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Luke 6:27-28
"But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. "

Considering how you have encouraged brothers and sisters of your acquaintances to attend the conference this weekend, it is encouraging you are heeding the Lord's word from Luke chapter 6. I have heard nothing but affirming words in regard to our visiting brothers.

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Old 05-08-2010, 04:44 AM   #4
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Steve,

If you really believe that Witness Lee's ministry is THE Ministry, and therein is revealed the "God-ordained way," then you have no choice but to drop all this, go back and repent. If I were a "new one" being sent there by you, I'd ask: How come you aren't there?

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Old 09-30-2011, 12:01 PM   #5
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Having known Steve for nearly a deacde, I could not entirely relate to the shunning he's endured.
That was until the past 3-4 months at work. Best way to describe is if you or I speak against being shunned, you or I become the villain instead of the victim.
I'm not the bad guy here and neither are you. Just wanting to be treated with decency and courtesy. Whether you or I are liked or disliked, it really doesn't matter. Last I checked we still live in a civilized society. We can still excercise civil conduct towards one another; if not exercise love as seen in 1 Corinthians 13.
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:24 PM   #6
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Having known Steve for nearly a deacde, I could not entirely relate to the shunning he's endured.
That was until the past 3-4 months at work. Best way to describe is if you or I speak against being shunned, you or I become the villain instead of the victim.
I'm not the bad guy here and neither are you. Just wanting to be treated with decency and courtesy. Whether you or I are liked or disliked, it really doesn't matter. Last I checked we still live in a civilized society. We can still excercise civil conduct towards one another; if not exercise love as seen in 1 Corinthians 13.
I have no idea what you are talking about. If this is a topic that you don't want others to understand why are you posting it in an open forum? If not, could you please explain how he is being "shunned"?
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:54 PM   #7
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I have no idea what you are talking about. If this is a topic that you don't want others to understand why are you posting it in an open forum? If not, could you please explain how he is being "shunned"?
Very well ZNP, I shall. I figured most on the forum were familiar with the practice of shunning. That is, people who know you and you know them, but when crossing paths ones who you regarded as acquaintances or friends will treat you like a stranger.
Where Steve had been living in Bellevue, Washington is a mere 30-60 second walk from a Kroger owned supermarket (QFC). It's vicinity is close to the Church in Bellevue meeting hall. Per Steve, there are a number of brothers and sisters from the Church in Bellevue who shop there. For the sake of not generalizing, there are several brothers who will greet Steve. Others from the Church in Bellevue who shop there (brothers and sisters alike) will look the other way.
Another example is a memorial I went to in 2007 where Steve was also present The brother who passed on was a public servant for the state of Washington. To my two older children he was Grandpa _ _ _. As this brother raised his family in Ephrata, WA his memorial service was in Ephrata. The chief speaker of the memorial service is an elder from the Church in Moses Lake. This elder exhibited no problem greeting Steve. There were brothers and sisters present from the Churches in Bellevue and Seattle. None of them did I see greet or acknowledge Steve at the memorial reception. I was there and observing if was to be any exchange of pleasantries. The only sister that did however had not been meeting with the Church in Bellevue since before my moving to the Bellevue area in 1993.
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:01 PM   #8
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People shun others because of fear. That fear overpowers whatever love they once had for each other. This shows what kind of power the LSM leaders hold in their hands.

Jesus told Pilate that the Jews had the "greater sin." Likewise, LSM leaders have the "greater sin" for their many quarantines, which are composed of nothing more than lies, suspicions, innuendos, slanders, unrighteousnesses, false witnesses, etc.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:58 PM   #9
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Very well ZNP, I shall. I figured most on the forum were familiar with the practice of shunning. That is, people who know you and you know them, but when crossing paths ones who you regarded as acquaintances or friends will treat you like a stranger...
In my experience this is a blessing, not a curse. If, as Shakespeare said "all the world is a stage" then the spotlight is on Steve. Everyone is watching him and they are all ashamed of their behavior, because they have the same conscience you and I have, but they believe he has been bitten by a poisonous snake and they are waiting for him to fall down dead.

If you remember Paul's experience, the first reaction to his getting bit was everyone considered him a murderer who, although he had escaped the sea, judgement had pursued him. However, when he showed no ill effect of that snake, then their opinion changed 180 degrees.

I would encourage Steve to enjoy the fellowship with the Lord, pray for those that despitefully use you, and give thanks that you have been found worthy to suffer for the name of Christ just like the prophets.

But then Paul was asked to come and pray for a sick person related to the chief of the village. We are coworkers with God, all Power has been given unto the Lord to empower us in this ministry. Once the attitude changes their will be an opportunity to pray for those that have shunned him, I hope he will seize that opportunity.
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Old 09-30-2011, 06:39 PM   #10
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People shun others because of fear. That fear overpowers whatever love they once had for each other. This shows what kind of power the LSM leaders hold in their hands.

Jesus told Pilate that the Jews had the "greater sin." Likewise, LSM leaders have the "greater sin" for their many quarantines, which are composed of nothing more than lies, suspicions, innuendos, slanders, unrighteousnesses, false witnesses, etc.
Ohio, I have seen the fear of God being turned to fear of man. Even through the reasons you have listed, bless all the brothers and sisters.
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Old 10-01-2011, 02:52 AM   #11
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I have no idea what you are talking about. If this is a topic that you don't want others to understand why are you posting it in an open forum? If not, could you please explain how he is being "shunned"?
...Wow!...
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:25 AM   #12
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In my experience this is a blessing, not a curse. If, as Shakespeare said "all the world is a stage" then the spotlight is on Steve. Everyone is watching him and they are all ashamed of their behavior, because they have the same conscience you and I have, but they believe he has been bitten by a poisonous snake and they are waiting for him to fall down dead.

If you remember Paul's experience, the first reaction to his getting bit was everyone considered him a murderer who, although he had escaped the sea, judgement had pursued him. However, when he showed no ill effect of that snake, then their opinion changed 180 degrees.

I would encourage Steve to enjoy the fellowship with the Lord, pray for those that despitefully use you, and give thanks that you have been found worthy to suffer for the name of Christ just like the prophets.
I wonder if we aren't all fools for shining the spotlight on ourselves, here in this space...
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:34 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
In my experience this is a blessing, not a curse. If, as Shakespeare said "all the world is a stage" then the spotlight is on Steve. Everyone is watching him and they are all ashamed of their behavior, because they have the same conscience you and I have, but they believe he has been bitten by a poisonous snake and they are waiting for him to fall down dead.

If you remember Paul's experience, the first reaction to his getting bit was everyone considered him a murderer who, although he had escaped the sea, judgement had pursued him. However, when he showed no ill effect of that snake, then their opinion changed 180 degrees...
Dear ZNPaaneah, it is interesting that you bring forth Paul's experience after the shipwreck. So you must think there is some direct corollary here? It appears that basically you see Steve Isitt standing in the position of Paul. Please help us understand further what correspondence you might see between these two events.

"Everyone is watching him" - Who is watching, everyone? The shunners? The forum readers?

"they are all ashamed of their behavior" Who is ashamed of their behavior? I have not yet met anyone aligned with the LSM/LC who is ashamed about what has happened to Steve.

"they have the same conscience as you and I" - Who in this story do you think has the same conscience as you and I? Are you assuming that both you and I have a healthy conscience???

"Everyone considered him a murderer" - Who considers him a murderer? And who is the real murderer? Who is the one who really brings DEATH? Jesus taught that one who is angry in his heart toward another is guilty of murder!

"he showed no ill effect of that snake" - Who represents the snake in this story?

Please elaborate...

P.S.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:56 PM   #14
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Dear ZNPaaneah, it is interesting that you bring forth Paul's experience after the shipwreck. So you must think there is some direct corollary here? It appears that basically you see Steve Isitt standing in the position of Paul. Please help us understand further what correspondence you might see between these two events.

"Everyone is watching him" - Who is watching, everyone? The shunners? The forum readers?
I was referring to those shunning him.

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"they are all ashamed of their behavior" Who is ashamed of their behavior? I have not yet met anyone aligned with the LSM/LC who is ashamed about what has happened to Steve.
In my experience, the vast majority of saints are sheep. The leaders tell them to shun someone, they do it. However, they still have a conscience. I have seen saints struggle greatly with doing something that their conscience disagrees with yet they feel the pressure from the church leaders to do and fear to rebel. Psalms talks about "deep calleth unto deep". I believe that this kind of trial is a trial of your faith, and part of that faith is believing that the saints have a conscience and that deep calleth unto deep.

Quote:
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"they have the same conscience as you and I" - Who in this story do you think has the same conscience as you and I? Are you assuming that both you and I have a healthy conscience???
I am referring to the typical saint who is pressured into shunning a brother with little or no other basis other than the church leadership has said so. I assume the typical saint is a born again Christian with an active conscience, not one that has been seared. I am not referring to the leaders who in my mind may have seared their conscience by now, don't know.

Quote:
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"Everyone considered him a murderer" - Who considers him a murderer? And who is the real murderer? Who is the one who really brings DEATH? Jesus taught that one who is angry in his heart toward another is guilty of murder!

"he showed no ill effect of that snake" - Who represents the snake in this story?

Please elaborate...

P.S.
Acts 28:4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:53 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
In my experience, the vast majority of saints are sheep. The leaders tell them to shun someone, they do it. However, they still have a conscience. I have seen saints struggle greatly with doing something that their conscience disagrees with yet they feel the pressure from the church leaders to do and fear to rebel.
A few days ago, you were incredulous that anything was even happening to Steve. Later the same day, you announced that "they are all ashamed of their behavior" toward Steve.

Gosh, would you also like to inform us that "they are all ashamed" of rejecting Columbus and Ann Arbor? Gimme a break....

P.S. Do sheep feel guilty when they follow?
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:21 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by rayliotta View Post
A few days ago, you were incredulous that anything was even happening to Steve. Later the same day, you announced that "they are all ashamed of their behavior" toward Steve.

Gosh, would you also like to inform us that "they are all ashamed" of rejecting Columbus and Ann Arbor? Gimme a break....

P.S. Do sheep feel guilty when they follow?
When did I express incredulity?

I do not want anyone to draw the conclusion that I know what any individual is thinking, but as a rule our conscience will condemn us if we are not walking according to the truth. When you look at the holocaust you discover that many Germans were ashamed of what was going on even though they didn't act. The reality of the holocaust was not that all Germans are monsters, not even that the majority of Germans were monsters,
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:11 AM   #17
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When did I express incredulity?

I do not want anyone to draw the conclusion that I know what any individual is thinking, but as a rule our conscience will condemn us if we are not walking according to the truth. When you look at the holocaust you discover that many Germans were ashamed of what was going on even though they didn't act. The reality of the holocaust was not that all Germans are monsters, not even that the majority of Germans were monsters,
The difference is that the Germans knew that there was no intrinsic evil in Jews and other non-Germanic/Aryan groups. In the case of the LRC, they actually believe what they are told. Their conscience is directed by the firm belief that there is something spiritually amiss and that the "brothers" are correct to point it out and condemn it.

They feel no shame. They think it is right. They are fully under the influence of the heavenLee kool aid, now fortified with vitamin BB. They know that their teachings are correct and blessed by God.

Besides, how can they be wrong when they're so sincere?
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:16 AM   #18
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The difference is that the Germans knew that there was no intrinsic evil in Jews and other non-Germanic/Aryan groups. In the case of the LRC, they actually believe what they are told. Their conscience is directed by the firm belief that there is something spiritually amiss and that the "brothers" are correct to point it out and condemn it.
I don't believe it was so cut and dry. Many Germans were fully convinced that the Jews were a blight to their country just as many LC'ers feel that WL and the blindeds are honest men of God for pointing out all the divisions and corruptions in Christianity.

There were also many soldiers who were "just following orders" as dutiful soldiers are trained. They faced their own death, and suffering for loved ones, for disobeying orders.

I'm not trying to diminish the responsibilities of the typical German, nor the typical LC'er for that matter, but the greater evil is always the responsibility of the leaders. The masses are always likened as "sheep without a shepherd."

Even God Himself told the highest ranking officer of the land, before He was crucified and scourged by him, that the Sanhedrin had the "greater sin."
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:54 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by OBW View Post
They feel no shame. They think it is right. They are fully under the influence of the heavenLee kool aid, now fortified with vitamin BB. They know that their teachings are correct and blessed by God.

Besides, how can they be wrong when they're so sincere?
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed

Luke 11:21 is appropriate in relation to your post OBW. There is a fortification. Even if Steve is "spot on" in his historical narrative of the local churches, the blended brothers and the co-workers are fortified and fully armed. This also explains why there is no fellowship with Christian assemblies that do not take Living Stream Ministry as the one publication. To be a Christian and indifferent towards "the minstry" LSM publishes is unacceptable. You are either for us or agianst us. There's no middle ground. Of course many on the forum have been aware of this already.
Possessions mentioned in the verse I would equate as the general lay brother and sister in the local churches. The local churches are being guarded from influences of any other ministry, so that the possessions remain undisturbed. What happens when the possessions are disturbed? My response, "the sleeper has awakened". In other words the conscience is no longer passive and dormant, but alert and active. No longer could the conscience be duped by positive sounding words.

"I]Besides, how can they be wrong when they're so sincere?[/I]" I'd say go here http://www.mendingministry.com/ and download load the audio link "What if We are decieved?" There's one answer to the question OBW posted.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:04 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
When did I express incredulity?

I do not want anyone to draw the conclusion that I know what any individual is thinking, but as a rule our conscience will condemn us if we are not walking according to the truth. When you look at the holocaust you discover that many Germans were ashamed of what was going on even though they didn't act. The reality of the holocaust was not that all Germans are monsters, not even that the majority of Germans were monsters,
When you say we all have the same conscience, or that "they all feel" such-and-such ... well ... to me ... that kinda implies that you do know (think you know) what ever'body else is thinkin'.

But maybe that's just me.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:06 PM   #21
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Even God Himself told the highest ranking officer of the land, before He was crucified and scourged by him, that the Sanhedrin had the "greater sin."
But the BB are Roman by nature, so they're kinda immune from any charge worse than the "lesser sin"...
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:44 PM   #22
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Who cares about the "testimony" of how someone joined a church? Big deal! "I met Jesus. Ho hum! I met Witness Lee and his church. Praise the Lord! Hallelujah!" Seriously?
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:07 AM   #23
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Dear Steve,

Just wondering....Have you yet come to the realization that Witness Lee's Local churches and the Living Stream Ministry are a tax free corporation (Den) precisely set up for the Power, Perks, Printing press and $$Paychecks. For a brief moment you stopped bleating like a mind numbed sheep, " O lord amen hallelujah" "recovery version" Gods ordained way"....then you went crawling back to your 30 yr comfort zone. This group is among other things very divisive, no they are NOT the only church that can meet, just because you are in their group NO they are NOT saints, saints have to live a virtuous life and perform a miracle ( many if not all are far from sainthood), they don't like other Christians or any other belief as it cuts into their profits---gee rather than whine about being cast out you should consider God has blessed you to begin to get a real life and move on while you still have time.

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Old 11-09-2011, 11:10 AM   #24
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This past week I was watching a movie on Martin Luther and could not help thinking the comparisons between Luther and Steve Isitt. How can you recant what you've spoken according to your convictions?
To recant in order to please man when your convictions say otherwise, what do you call that?
Repenting for telling it like it is?
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Old 11-12-2011, 06:48 AM   #25
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Martin Luther? Really Terry? I'll try to bail you out of this one bro.

Of course the glaring difference is that Martin Luther had nowhere else to go. There was the Roman Catholic Church, and nothing else. He had to work within the system.

Steve has a choice. There are many biblical, healthy and vibrant churches in the area he lives in. After all these years Steve must be aware of the big lie that is told in the Local Church - that Christianity is a barren wasteland and is Babylon. This was a lie perpetrated by Witness Lee to keep his followers from looking on the other side of the fence.

Now, thanks to the information age, Local Churchers don't have to be in the dark anymore. They can read this forum and see that there are many former members who have gone on with the Lord. They can find out for themselves that when Benson Phillips says if you leave your spiritual life is basically over and that the process of sanctification is only taking place in the Local Church of Witness Lee, he is full of rice and beans.


There is one thing that Steve has in common with Martin Luther - they both dealt with hopelessly rigid religious systems that were just not going to change for anything or any one.
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:52 PM   #26
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This past week I was watching a movie on Martin Luther and could not help thinking the comparisons between Luther and Steve Isitt.
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Martin Luther? Really Terry? I'll try to bail you out of this one bro. Of course the glaring difference is that Martin Luther had nowhere else to go. There was the Roman Catholic Church, and nothing else. He had to work within the system.
In some limited sense, I'm not so sure Isitt and Luther are so different. Luther did have other options, joining others outside the RCC, but like Isitt, he grew up with the belief that his church was the only true church, standing on the proper ground of truth and oneness, with a leader who had the proper lineage of authority.

Both Luther and Isitt, when examining their core ideology, had no intention of leaving their roots. Both worked tirelessly to reform apparent errors and return their church back to its former days of "glory." We can stand back and look at both of them and "laugh," knowing that they are fighting an overwhelming and hopeless battle, but frankly it's none of our business.

Personally, I like to let each one man serve God according to conscience. Who am I to know whether or not the Lord is not directing their very steps? I am convinced that the Lord does direct some to stay in the LC in relative silence, He has directed others to leave the LC in silence, and He has directed some others to speak out long and loud to expose the errors of their ways. Who are we to judge? God ways are higher than our ways.
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Old 11-12-2011, 04:34 PM   #27
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There is one thing that Steve has in common with Martin Luther - they both dealt with hopelessly rigid religious systems that were just not going to change for anything or any one.
Each religious system of it's time, Luther with the RCC and Steve Isitt of the so called recovery were told to recant or else. In Luther's time, his life was in jepeordy. As for Steve, it was being able to meet where he wants to meet. Sure there are many Christian assemblies to gather with. That's the basis of my comparison.
Both religious systems; the RCC and that of LSM/LC knew that the respective brothers who spoke out against the errors had merit. To acknowledge the merit poses risk to the system.
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