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Apologetic discussions Apologetic Discussions Regarding the Teachings of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee

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Old 05-27-2012, 09:45 AM   #1
micah6v8
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Default 1000 Years being Disciplined

According to the teachings of the Lord’s Recovery,
• “half-hearted” Christians will be disciplined for 1000 years, while the “over-comers” will reign for 1000 years.
• After that, they both will be with the Lord forever and eternally.

Conceptually, “eternally” means forever. It means more than even 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000++ years.
In the grand scheme of things, the “half-hearted” Christians don’t miss out on much. Sure, they miss out on 1000 years. But what is 1000 years compared to zillions of years?

One motivation for the saints in the Lord’s Recovery to live a Christian life is that a 70-year human life-span is incomparable to a 1000 years since 1000 years is more than 100 times greater than 70 years. However, given that a zillion years is billion times greater than 1000 years, isn’t a 1000 years a small price to pay for being a half-hearted Christian?

Let me draw an analogy. $1000 is more than $70. One would be better off having $1000 than having $70. But if you and I knew that we were going to be trillionaires, I really would not care much about having a thousand dollars less than you.

It is my opinion that the Lord’s Recovery teaching is flawed since it leads to such an absurd result. I submit that the other Christian teachers are right: “if you are a half-hearted Christian, you do not spend a thousand years being disciplined before returning to be with the Lord; you simply are deemed a false believer and get condemned to hell”. (Matt 7:21-23)
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:31 PM   #2
UntoHim
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

Thanks for your post micah6v8, and welcome to the Forum!

Your points are all well taken. What's even worse, in my opinion, is that many (most?) Local Churchers consider anybody who will not buy into everything that Witness Lee taught as "half hearted", and will be subjected to the dreaded 1,000 years of gnashing their teeth in outer darkness. Even those who never heard of the man will be in danger. This is to say nothing of those of us who have heard, and have the gall to suggest that not everything that Witness Lee said was a golden nugget from heaven

I'm not so sure that the Millennial Kingdom is going to be a place of punishment so much as a place of reward, and a fulfillment of the many prophesies, not the least of which is "your kingdom come your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven". It will be a time of the Lord Jesus to "set all things right". It will be a time that God will show all of mankind and all the principalities and powers how things were originally meant to be. It will be a kingdom of righteousness, justice, peace, mercy....a place filled with the character of God himself.

Witness Lee and his followers have twisted what is clearly presented by the Lord Jesus and the scripture writing apostles, and the main reason they have done so is rather despicable - so as to keep people in fear and trembling of not going along with the program...of not following the tenets of the religion that Lee invented. May God have mercy.
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah6v8 View Post
According to the teachings of the Lord’s Recovery,
• “half-hearted” Christians will be disciplined for 1000 years, while the “over-comers” will reign for 1000 years.
• After that, they both will be with the Lord forever and eternally.

Conceptually, “eternally” means forever. It means more than even 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000++ years.
In the grand scheme of things, the “half-hearted” Christians don’t miss out on much. Sure, they miss out on 1000 years. But what is 1000 years compared to zillions of years?

One motivation for the saints in the Lord’s Recovery to live a Christian life is that a 70-year human life-span is incomparable to a 1000 years since 1000 years is more than 100 times greater than 70 years. However, given that a zillion years is billion times greater than 1000 years, isn’t a 1000 years a small price to pay for being a half-hearted Christian?

Let me draw an analogy. $1000 is more than $70. One would be better off having $1000 than having $70. But if you and I knew that we were going to be trillionaires, I really would not care much about having a thousand dollars less than you.

It is my opinion that the Lord’s Recovery teaching is flawed since it leads to such an absurd result. I submit that the other Christian teachers are right: “if you are a half-hearted Christian, you do not spend a thousand years being disciplined before returning to be with the Lord; you simply are deemed a false believer and get condemned to hell”. (Matt 7:21-23)
Since there is basically no time in eternity -- no yesterday and no tomorrow -- I considered 1,000 years much longer than eternity, especially if we are sitting around doing nothing to "pass the time."

But, otoh, just today my wife commented that we were the only Christians who ever talked about this millennium.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

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Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
..just today my wife commented that we were the only Christians who ever talked about this millennium.
Actually the Local Church is about the only place that talks like the Millennial is going to be a place of punishment. I assume that Nee/Lee got this notion from the Brethren, but I'm just guessing about that.

BTW, I am not suggesting that there will be no discipline from the Lord in the age to come, only that it will not involve the gnashing of teeth in outer darkness for 1,000 years. And it will certainly not involve a "summer school" to make up things we didn't do good enough in this age. (Sorry Dan Towle, you're all washed up on this one, bro.)
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

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Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
BTW, I am not suggesting that there will be no discipline from the Lord in the age to come, only that it will not involve the gnashing of teeth in outer darkness for 1,000 years. And it will certainly not involve a "summer school" to make up things we didn't do good enough in this age. (Sorry Dan Towle, you're all washed up on this one, bro.)
What guarantees are you providing?
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah6v8 View Post
According to the teachings of the Lord’s Recovery,
• “half-hearted” Christians will be disciplined for 1000 years, while the “over-comers” will reign for 1000 years.
• After that, they both will be with the Lord forever and eternally.

It is my opinion that the Lord’s Recovery teaching is flawed since it leads to such an absurd result. I submit that the other Christian teachers are right: “if you are a half-hearted Christian, you do not spend a thousand years being disciplined before returning to be with the Lord; you simply are deemed a false believer and get condemned to hell”. (Matt 7:21-23)
I think 1 Corinthians 3 indicates Christians will be judged for the work they did after becoming Christians but I think Witness Lee misapplied the 1000 years and taught the concept of purgatory. Being judged is one thing. Being in a 1000 years of purgatory as a long term punishment is something else altogether. But neither do I think "half-hearted" Christians are necessarily false believers. Genuine Christians do backslide, become lukewarm, etc. Just my 2 cents worth!
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:29 PM   #7
UntoHim
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

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Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
What guarantees are you providing?
I'm not in the business of providing guarantees, probably above my pay-grade anyway. I'll leave the guarantees up to all the con men and false prophets running around out there.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah6v8 View Post
According to the teachings of the Lord’s Recovery,
• “half-hearted” Christians will be disciplined for 1000 years, while the “over-comers” will reign for 1000 years.
• After that, they both will be with the Lord forever and eternally.

Conceptually, “eternally” means forever. It means more than even 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000++ years.
In the grand scheme of things, the “half-hearted” Christians don’t miss out on much. Sure, they miss out on 1000 years. But what is 1000 years compared to zillions of years?

One motivation for the saints in the Lord’s Recovery to live a Christian life is that a 70-year human life-span is incomparable to a 1000 years since 1000 years is more than 100 times greater than 70 years. However, given that a zillion years is billion times greater than 1000 years, isn’t a 1000 years a small price to pay for being a half-hearted Christian?

Let me draw an analogy. $1000 is more than $70. One would be better off having $1000 than having $70. But if you and I knew that we were going to be trillionaires, I really would not care much about having a thousand dollars less than you.

It is my opinion that the Lord’s Recovery teaching is flawed since it leads to such an absurd result. I submit that the other Christian teachers are right: “if you are a half-hearted Christian, you do not spend a thousand years being disciplined before returning to be with the Lord; you simply are deemed a false believer and get condemned to hell”. (Matt 7:21-23)
This whole post totally loses sight of mercy, grace and the fact that salvation is a free gift. The post makes sense if salvation is to be earned, but that's not what the Bible says.


As far as "half-hearted Christians" getting deemed "false believers," this is easily refutable by simply reading 1 Corinthians 3:14-15

"If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."
Presumably, a Christian whose work will be burned was half-hearted, at least to the extent of finding out what kind of work he should do and how he should do it. Yet, the Bible says such a person will be saved.

Actually, 1 Cor 3:15 is to me one of the strongest verses showing salvation cannot be lost, because if it can be lost, it seems having a life work that is worthy of being burned would be a good reason to lose it. But, not so, the Bible says!

Best stick with the Bible.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:24 PM   #9
UntoHim
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

Just to be clear, micah6v8 was merely reiterating what was/is "the teachings of the Lord's Recovery" and not giving an approval or endorsement of those teachings. He/she did give an opinion that a "half-hearted" Christian may not have been a Christian after all. Something that I think is worth dialoging about for sure.
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: 1000 Years being Disciplined

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Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
Just to be clear, micah6v8 was merely reiterating what was/is "the teachings of the Lord's Recovery" and not giving an approval or endorsement of those teachings. He/she did give an opinion that a "half-hearted" Christian may not have been a Christian after all. Something that I think is worth dialoging about for sure.
I guess I read it wrong. I didn't mean to discourage micah from posting.
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