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[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm confused? You're all over the map. My buddy Peterson? I'm in denial?

Genesis 2:7 is not metaphorical. Genesis 2:7 is an historical record. Genesis 2:7 separates man from all of creation. Genesis 2:7 is what you and Darwin and evolutionary science completely missed.

Where does the Bible say it's an historical record?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Where does the Bible say it's an historical record?

The Bible starts out, "In the beginning, God created ..."

Sorry, zeek, but for you to ask such an absurd question causes me to question not just your faith, but your intelligence.

Hey zeek, just what do you really believe? Anything at all? Do you even question that the Gospels are historical records?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Bible starts out, "In the beginning, God created ..."

Sorry, zeek, but for you to ask such an absurd question causes me to question not just your faith, but your intelligence.

Hey zeek, just what do you really believe? Anything at all? Do you even question that the Gospels are historical records?

How do you get that the Bible is an historical record from the words "In the beginning God created"? I think the gospels have a historical basis which is mixed with myth and legend.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

How do you get that the Bible is an historical record from the words "In the beginning God created"? I think the gospels have a historical basis which is mixed with myth and legend.

The Bible is an historical record of events starting with "God created."

To claim that the Gospels or Genesis is "mixed with myth and legend" indicates that it is not the word of God to you and can be anything you want it to be.

That explains many of your posts -- actually a mixture of myths and legends -- cunningly devised fables dreamed up by zeek and his preferred list of "scientists."

Herein is the difference between us -- you think the Bible is mixed with myth and legend, while I think your posts and everything else written is mixed with myth and legend.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Bible is an historical record of events starting with "God created."

To claim that the Gospels or Genesis is "mixed with myth and legend" indicates that it is not the word of God to you and can be anything you want it to be.

That explains many of your posts -- actually a mixture of myths and legends -- cunningly devised fables dreamed up by zeek and his preferred list of "scientists."

Herein is the difference between us -- you think the Bible is mixed with myth and legend, while I think your posts and everything else written is mixed with myth and legend.

The Bible never explicitly states that it is an historical record. That it is is a matter of Christian tradition.

[awareness]

May I put in my 2 cents worth of myth and legend?

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Bible is an historical record of events starting with "God created."

That's the history of the universe, not the Bible.

Originally Posted by Ohio

To claim that the Gospels or Genesis is "mixed with myth and legend" indicates that it is not the word of God to you

That brings back zeek's original question : "Where in the Bible does it say it's a historical record?" If the word of God doesn't say it means that it's not historical. So to say it's a historical record is extra-Biblical tradition.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

The Bible never explicitly states that it is an historical record. That it is is a matter of Christian tradition.

Originally Posted by awareness

If the word of God doesn't say it means that it's not historical. So to say it's a historical record is extra-Biblical tradition.

That's *conveniently* an absurd standard to place on the Bible.

Genesis 2.4, for example, says, "These are the generations of the heaven and the earth when they were created."

Obviously an "historical" record, but you guys apparently read about this so-called "disclaimer" by some university moron ... err scholar like Ehrman ... and believed this nonsense.

Luke himself precedes two books with statements like, "draw up a narrative concerning these matters," but it's not "history" because he didn't use the right words. Seriously?

So when the Bible repeatedly instructs us that "these things were recorded," it is not actually an "historical record" because it did not use the words "historical record."

Are you guys really doubling down on dumb? You guys are better than this! Have you actually gone off the deep end with this PC talk? The LC was also this way -- i.e. you can't be a "real" church unless you call yourself "THE church IN anytown."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's *conveniently* an absurd standard to place on the Bible.

Is it the word of God or not? The word of God does not say the Bible is history. Sorry. Don't blame me. Blame the Bible for not saying it.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Genesis 2.4, for example, says, "These are the generations of the heaven and the earth when they were created."

Again, not speaking of the Bible. Look up the Hebrew word for heaven in that verse and you'll find it's speaking of the sky and celestial space, up there.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obviously an "historical" record, but you guys apparently read about this so-called "disclaimer" by some university moron ... err scholar like Ehrman ... and believed this nonsense.

Not true at all.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Luke himself precedes two books with statements like, "draw up a narrative concerning these matters," but it's not "history" because he didn't use the right words. Seriously?

Where's the history of Jerusalem and the temple getting sacked by the Romans? Why not that history? Not much of a history book without that.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Is it the word of God or not? The word of God does not say the Bible is history. Sorry. Don't blame me. Blame the Bible for not saying it.

So the Chronicles of Israel's history and the book of Kings are not History books? The account in Genesis about the patriarchs that is not biographical? Judges doesn't tell us the history of the judges? Joshua doesn't tell us the history of Joshua? Esther, Nehemiah, Ezra, etc. These kinds of pronouncements from you always make me think and ask, why am I listening to this fool?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So the Chronicles of Israel's history and the book of Kings are not History books? The account in Genesis about the patriarchs that is not biographical? Judges doesn't tell us the history of the judges? Joshua doesn't tell us the history of Joshua? Esther, Nehemiah, Ezra, etc. These kinds of pronouncements from you always make me think and ask, why am I listening to this fool?

I'm not saying there's no history in the Bible. But it's no more a history book than it is a math or science book.

History in the Bible is a specific history. All the books of the Bible are written by Jews (with the possible exception being Mark. But even that is contested cuz we don't know who wrote it).

So if anything the Bible is a history of the Jews. And there is no history after the gentiles took over. So the Bible is a history of a time frame ; say from 1500BCE to 100CE.

And there's tons of history it never mentions. Where's the Greek history, or Roman? Oh,I forgot. It's a Jewish history.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm not saying there's no history in the Bible. But it's no more a history book than it is a math or science book.

History in the Bible is a specific history. All the books of the Bible are written by Jews (with the possible exception being Mark. But even that is contested cuz we don't know who wrote it).

So if anything the Bible is a history of the Jews. And there is no history after the gentiles took over. So the Bible is a history of a time frame ; say from 1500BCE to 100CE.

And there's tons of history it never mentions. Where's the Greek history, or Roman? Oh,I forgot. It's a Jewish history.

I think the Bible makes it very clear that it is a history that begins specifically with Adam and takes us even to a view of the future in Revelation.

The gospels are clearly biographical. The book of Acts is very clearly informative about the beginning of the church.

The epistles are also very informative giving us the detailed account of what the apostles taught, primarily Paul, John, Peter and James.

As for the history of the creation it is certainly a very, very brief account. But that doesn't mean that what it does say is not accurate.

No one judges a book by what it doesn't include. The fact that you have questions about Roman history that are not answered in the Bible does not in any way support the claim that the Bible is not history.

History is a story told over time. It is a way of recreating the past so it can be studied in the present and re-interpreted for future generations. based on this definition the Bible is clearly history.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

That brings back zeek's original question : "Where in the Bible does it say it's a historical record?" If the word of God doesn't say it means that it's not historical. So to say it's a historical record is extra-Biblical tradition.

Anything that records the past is a historical record. In other words, the Bible has memory. The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened. But for us today it records the past and is a historical record.

Take a shopping list for example. Today's shopping list is not a historical record. But put that list in a safe place for 10 years, then it becomes a historical record of what you bought 10 years ago. The list can also be used to infer what you ate at the time, it is likely that you made recipes with the list of ingredients.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm not saying there's no history in the Bible. But it's no more a history book than it is a math or science book.

History in the Bible is a specific history. All the books of the Bible are written by Jews (with the possible exception being Mark. But even that is contested cuz we don't know who wrote it).

So if anything the Bible is a history of the Jews. And there is no history after the gentiles took over. So the Bible is a history of a time frame ; say from 1500BCE to 100CE.

And there's tons of history it never mentions. Where's the Greek history, or Roman? Oh,I forgot. It's a Jewish history.

By your logic, every single book on American history IS NOT HISTORY because Slovenian or Estonian history is NOT included. Huh???

And, btw, the writer of the book of Mark is ... Mark!!!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

By your logic, every single book on American history IS NOT HISTORY because Slovenian or Estonian history is NOT included. Huh???

And, btw, the writer of the book of Mark is ... Mark!!!

Books on American history are not history because they don't include the fact that America was first discovered by the Chinese and will be coming back in future to reclaim their land! That's how awareness'es faulty loigic argument is like the Chinese history arguments.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Anything that records the past is a historical record.

But was it actual history?

Originally Posted by ZNP

In other words, the Bible has memory. The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened.

Genesis was written and edited over a span of hundreds of years, beginning circa 1000BCE. None of the authors or editors were there for the creation, obviously. They were not recording events as they happened. The same could be said of Noah. None of the scribes were there. The stories come down from the oral tradition. And we all know what happens to oral traditions by playing the Telephone Game. The oral tradition was picked up and polished and improved upon over generations.

So to say, "The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened," is to be mistakenly looking at it like there were reporters on hand, recording it as it happened. And that's not rational, nor realistic.

And what about any historical record of the great thinkers, like Socrates and Plato, et al? Oh darn. It keeps skipping my mind. The Bible is Jewish history, mixed with legend.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

But was it actual history?


Genesis was written and edited over a span of hundreds of years, beginning circa 1000BCE. None of the authors or editors were there for the creation, obviously. They were not recording events as they happened. The same could be said of Noah. None of the scribes were there. The stories come down from the oral tradition. And we all know what happens to oral traditions by playing the Telephone Game. The oral tradition was picked up and polished and improved upon over generations.

So to say, "The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened," is to be mistakenly looking at it like there were reporters on hand, recording it as it happened. And that's not rational, nor realistic.

And what about any historical record of the great thinkers, like Socrates and Plato, et al? Oh darn. It keeps skipping my mind. The Bible is Jewish history, mixed with legend.

If you are right does it change anything?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

But was it actual history?


Genesis was written and edited over a span of hundreds of years, beginning circa 1000BCE. None of the authors or editors were there for the creation, obviously. They were not recording events as they happened. The same could be said of Noah. None of the scribes were there. The stories come down from the oral tradition. And we all know what happens to oral traditions by playing the Telephone Game. The oral tradition was picked up and polished and improved upon over generations.

So to say, "The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened," is to be mistakenly looking at it like there were reporters on hand, recording it as it happened. And that's not rational, nor realistic.

And what about any historical record of the great thinkers, like Socrates and Plato, et al? Oh darn. It keeps skipping my mind. The Bible is Jewish history, mixed with legend.

Can you give me the post # from which you allegedly quoted "the Bible has memory" quote from me? I do not recognize this.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That brings back zeek's original question : "Where in the Bible does it say it's a historical record?" If the word of God doesn't say it means that it's not historical. So to say it's a historical record is extra-Biblical tradition.

Some of the names of the Bible historians are referenced here:

2Samuel 8:16
2Samuel 20:24
1Kings 4:3
2Kings 18:37
1chron 18:15
2Chron 34:8
Isaiah 8:2
Isaiah 36:3
Isaiah 36:22


References to other historical records are here:

1Chron 4:22
Ezra 4:15
Ezra 6:2
Esther 6:1

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's *conveniently* an absurd standard to place on the Bible.

Genesis 2.4, for example, says, "These are the generations of the heaven and the earth when they were created."

Obviously an "historical" record, but you guys apparently read about this so-called "disclaimer" by some university moron ... err scholar like Ehrman ... and believed this nonsense.

Luke himself precedes two books with statements like, "draw up a narrative concerning these matters," but it's not "history" because he didn't use the right words. Seriously?

So when the Bible repeatedly instructs us that "these things were recorded," it is not actually an "historical record" because it did not use the words "historical record."

Are you guys really doubling down on dumb? You guys are better than this! Have you actually gone off the deep end with this PC talk? The LC was also this way -- i.e. you can't be a "real" church unless you call yourself "THE church IN anytown."

The creation accounts in Genesis are without a doubt ancient Israel's stories of the world's beginnings. Are they scientifically accurate accounts of the origin of the cosmos, the earth or natural history? The overwhelming evidence of modern science says no. And the efforts of the young earth creationists and the gap theorists like Pember to reconcile Genesis with the body of scientific evidence are total failures. I don't see how you as an intelligent person cannot recognize this on some level.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Some of the names of the Bible historians are referenced here:

2Samuel 8:16
2Samuel 20:24
1Kings 4:3
2Kings 18:37
1chron 18:15
2Chron 34:8
Isaiah 8:2
Isaiah 36:3
Isaiah 36:22


References to other historical records are here:

1Chron 4:22
Ezra 4:15
Ezra 6:2
Esther 6:1

Like I said, Jewish history, written by Jews, who claim to be God's chosen race.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The creation accounts in Genesis are without a doubt ancient Israel's stories of the world's beginnings. Are they scientifically accurate accounts of the origin of the cosmos, the earth or natural history? The overwhelming evidence of modern science says no. And the efforts of the young earth creationists and the gap theorists like Pember to reconcile Genesis with the body of scientific evidence are total failures. I don't see how you as an intelligent person cannot recognize this on some level.

I agree that the interpretations that I have read concerning creationists and others are a total failure. They are really wrong.

But the error I feel is in the interpretation of the Bible. Not the Bible.

[Ohio]

After 2 years of Fake News reporting by the Left, here is the preview for the big announcement:

Mueller report PSA: Prepare for disappointment

I have been telling you guys this for like ever, and you keep scolding me that Muller needs more time. When will you guys accept the fact that the Mainstream Media constantly lies to tha American public?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When will you guys accept the fact that the Mainstream Media constantly lies to tha American public?

Don't know the you guys that you're addressing, but I realized that during the fake news, by all but one, including Fox, and those on the left, supporting going into war with Iraq.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

After 2 years of Fake News reporting by the Left, here is the preview for the big announcement:

Mueller report PSA: Prepare for disappointment

I have been telling you guys this for like ever, and you keep scolding me that Muller needs more time. When will you guys accept the fact that the Mainstream Media constantly lies to tha American public?

Fitting that you would attack the media after your idol Trump praised a congressman for body-slamming a journalist who was just doing his job and your Idol and his administration are assisting in the cover-up of his Saudi Arabian prince buddy's apparent hit job on a journalist. Coincidentally the journalist works for the Washington Post who you and Trump and Saudi Arabia hate. So score another win for the Team Trump in the war on against the First Amendment freedom. Hooray for your side.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Fitting that you would attack the media after your idol Trump praised a congressman for body-slamming a journalist who was just doing his job and your Idol and his administration are assisting in the cover-up of his Saudi Arabian prince buddy's apparent hit job on a journalist. Coincidentally the journalist works for the Washington Post who you and Trump and Saudi Arabia hate. So score another win for the Team Trump in the war on against the First Amendment freedom. Hooray for your side.

Never an honest moment zeek?

Still grasping at idols to divert attention away from your savior Muller.

Better go back and erase a hundred posts of yours claiming Muller will get Trump, your sworn enemy.

And now you are blaming Trump for the murder of a Saudi in Turkey? I think you should see a shrink. Trump Derangement Hatred has made you crazy.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Don't know the you guys that you're addressing, but I realized that during the fake news, by all but one, including Fox, and those on the left, supporting going into war with Iraq.

War in Iraq?

[zeek]

Saudi Arabia says journalist Jamal Khashoggi is Dead; 18 Are Arrested
Mr. Khashoggi was strangled after a fistfight, officials said

Trump said that Saudi Arabia’s statements were credible. He added he would consider “some form of sanction” but would prefer it didn’t involve arm sales. So far it looks like Trump is going along with the cover-up.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Saudi Arabia says journalist Jamal Khashoggi is Dead; 18 Are Arrested
Mr. Khashoggi was strangled after a fistfight, officials said

Trump said that Saudi Arabia’s statements were credible. He added he would consider “some form of sanction” but would prefer it didn’t involve arm sales. So far it looks like Trump is going along with the cover-up.

You never seemed to care this much when Christians were slaughtered in the Mideast or Pastors wrongly inprisoned. Of course, the media can't spin these stories against Trump.

I wonder why you have so much hate for Trump, and so little concern for suffering Christians.

[Ohio]

zeek's hypocrisy exposed ...

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump said that Saudi Arabia’s statements were credible. He added he would consider “some form of sanction” but would prefer it didn’t involve arm sales. So far it looks like Trump is going along with the cover-up.

But ... Look How Obama Treated Slain Journalists

Charlie Hebdo Journalists should not be slain by authoritarians, tyrants, or ideological fanatics for their views, but they have been, and in the case of President Obama with an attitude of callous indifference. Has the media forgotten the attack on the offices of the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, which, along with a deli attacked at the same time, the Obama administration dismissed as the victims just being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

The lives of the four Jews killed in a kosher market in Paris were dismissed by Obama as "a bunch of folks in a deli" shot "randomly" as they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. After the attack on that kosher market and on Charlie Hebdo, President Obama didn’t have time to join other world leaders in a moving protest march in the streets of Paris. He did have time to watch an NFL playoff game and welcome the San Antonio Spurs to the White House.

James Foley After issuing a perfunctory condemnation of the Islamic State’s beheading of American journalist James Foley, President Obama was moments later on a golf course. The realities of dealing with Islamic terrorism, a phrase that cannot cross his lips, could not be allowed to disturb a President who was contemplating the threat of climate change as he works to correct his slice.

Not only did Obama go golfing after James Foley’s execution, he didn’t do all that much to prevent it, according to Foley’s family:The Obama administration failed James Foley in the 21 months before the journalist was savagely executed, the dead man's brother charged. Michael Foley said the beheading of his sibling by Islamic State (ISIS) jihadists should change America's handling of similar cases in the future."There's more that could have been done directly on Jim's behalf," Michael Foley said in a shot at the White House. "I really, really hope that Jim's death pushes us to take another look at our approach to terrorist and hostage negotiation."

Obama: Too Busy? Our delusional former commander-in-chief, who still believes the massacre at Ft. Hood by jihadist Nidal Hasan is a case of “workplace violence” and that the Charlie Hebdo/deli massacre in Paris was a case of random violence and of victims being in the wrong place at the wrong time pathetically proclaimed at the G-20 Conference in Antalaya, Turkey, as the Federalist reports:

“What I’m not interested in doing is posing or pursuing some notion of American leadership or America winning or whatever other slogans they come up with that has no relationship to what is actually going to work to protect the American people and to protect the people in the region who are getting killed and to protect our allies and people like France,” Obama said. “I’m too busy for that.”

Too busy, the same way you were too busy resting up for a Las Vegas fundraiser the night Ambassador Christopher Stevens, Glen Doherty, Tyrone Woods, and Sean Smith were murdered by a terrorist attack in Benghazi, an attack you and your Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, told the parents of the deal was caused by a video?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

War in Iraq?

What? You thought Trump invented Fake News? Cheney & Bush were using it long before Trump started using it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

What? You thought Trump invented Fake News? Cheney & Bush were using it long before Trump started using it.

CNNABCCBSNBCNYTWAPOMSNBCPBS all invented fake news to victimize conservatives.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

CNNABCCBSNBCNYTWAPOMSNBCPBS all invented fake news to victimize conservatives.

All the fake news today can be traced back to Trump. Is that what you mean?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

All the fake news today can be traced back to Trump. Is that what you mean?

Donald Trump More Popular than Media Want You to Believe

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Donald Trump More Popular than Media Want You to Believe

I get it. Trump can't stop blowing his own horn so I can't miss it :

He's the most popular ever in history. And bro Ohio is a happy member of his cult following ... pumping actively to make him even more popular ... like a Puffer Fish.

[awareness]

Remind you of anything? :

Did a hypnotist who treated Adolf Hitler for shell shock in 1918 by using his 'desire to be like a God' help spark the Second World War?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ld-War-II.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Remind you of anything? :

Did a hypnotist who treated Adolf Hitler for shell shock in 1918 by using his 'desire to be like a God' help spark the Second World War?

Reminded me of that Lousy-Ford lady who used hypnotism in an attempt to destroy the reputation of Justice Kavanaugh.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Remind you of anything? :

Did a hypnotist who treated Adolf Hitler for shell shock in 1918 by using his 'desire to be like a God' help spark the Second World War?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ld-War-II.html

The false prophet builds his entire structure on the foundation of a "fabricated story".

[awareness]

Mike Salas, a life and professional counselor based in Texas, said he has seen a rise in clients who have fear and anxiety about the end times since the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Haha, lol. Even the rich secularists are expecting the apocalypse.

A site from one of them :
https://www.alternet.org/psychologis...aring-end-days

[zeek]

"At a time when the entire world is aghast at President Trump’s delay in condemning the Saudi murder of a Washington Post journalist and horrified at his praise in Montana on Thursday of the unprovoked assault on a US journalist by congressman Greg Gianforte, a lawsuit has been filed alleging that president has been acting unconstitutionally in using powers of the federal government to intimidate and stifle the freedom of the press. The lawsuit claims Trump’s actions:

'stifle exercise of the constitutional protections of free speech and a free press. Through retaliatory directives to officials in his Administration and credible public threats to use his government powers against news organizations and journalists… the President has violated the First Amendment and his oath to uphold the Constitution.'"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevede...g#286c818c795f

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

"At a time when the entire world is aghast at President Trump’s delay in condemning the Saudi murder of a Washington Post journalist and horrified at his praise in Montana on Thursday of the unprovoked assault on a US journalist by congressman Greg Gianforte, a lawsuit has been filed alleging that president has been acting unconstitutionally in using powers of the federal government to intimidate and stifle the freedom of the press. The lawsuit claims Trump’s actions:

'stifle exercise of the constitutional protections of free speech and a free press. Through retaliatory directives to officials in his Administration and credible public threats to use his government powers against news organizations and journalists… the President has violated the First Amendment and his oath to uphold the Constitution.'"

At a time when the entire world is aghast?

I was at two neighborhood parties the other day, and not one person even knew about it.

zeek: definition, "a perpetrator of the sensational and the fake side of news; synonym: a carnival barker."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

At a time when the entire world is aghast?

I was at two neighborhood parties the other day, and not one person even knew about it.

zeek: definition, "a perpetrator of the sensational and the fake side of news; synonym: a carnival barker."

Pot Kettle. Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up! -- Build the wall! Build the wall! Build the wall! ... sounds like carnival barkers to me.

[awareness]

25% of students say they were traumatized by the 2016 election, study says

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...tudy-says.html

[ZNPaaneah]

I realized recently that the Dredd Scott decision by the Supreme court is very similar to the Roe v Wade decision.

Both were political attempts by the Supreme court to do an end run around the constitution and legislate laws saying that the Constitution legalized Slavery in every state or legalized abortion in every state. The idea in both cases was to attempt to paper over a divisive issue involving righteousness.

The Dredd Scott decision was probably the fork in the road where the Civil war was inevitable.

Interesting that we are now equally turbulent as then.

[zeek]

This will perhaps be more to your liking :

Christian author: Trump is under attack from ‘multidimensional Luciferian advanced beings:

http://deadstate.org/christian-autho...PVtWWe1Z7fqEUo

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I realized recently that the Dredd Scott decision by the Supreme court is very similar to the Roe v Wade decision.

Both were political attempts by the Supreme court to do an end run around the constitution and legislate laws saying that the Constitution legalized Slavery in every state or legalized abortion in every state. The idea in both cases was to attempt to paper over a divisive issue involving righteousness.

The Dredd Scott decision was probably the fork in the road where the Civil war was inevitable.

Interesting that we are now equally turbulent as then.

Excellent point. And judicial activism on the high court is perhaps the single most important consideration for constitutional conservatives.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Excellent point. And judicial activism on the high court is perhaps the single most important consideration for constitutional conservatives.

And there will be plenty of it, now that conservatives have majority.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And there will be plenty of it, now that conservatives have majority.

We have no idea how Justices will vote on the SCOTUS. Governor Sununu picked by Bush 41 was convinced that Souter was a "reliable conservative." Look how that turned out. Reagan picked Kennedy after Bork got borked, and that was a disaster for social conservatives. I could go on ...

Conservatives merely recognize the incredible and enduring brilliance in the Constitution, and would like it to remain part of our legal system. The Left, however, are violently against it, preferring socialism.

If the Senate picks up a stronger majority, and Trump does not make the disastrous mistake of selecting one for his cabinet, (think AG Sessions) then he will be able to select a 6th Justice like Amy Barrett when RBG gives up the ghost.

[awareness]

Brother Ohio, based on your posts out here, you're prolly delighted that liberals are being targeted with pipe bombs.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Brother Ohio, based on your posts out here, you're prolly delighted that liberals are being targeted with pipe bombs.

Really? In what posts does Ohio indicate that he delights in terrorism, pipe bombs, or threats of violence?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Really? In what posts does Ohio indicate that he delights in terrorism, pipe bombs, or threats of violence?

Oh forget it. The pipe bombs are only false flags, planted by liberal democrats.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh forget it. The pipe bombs are only false flags, planted by liberal democrats.

wouldn't it be more reasonable to suspect the Russians or Chinese?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh forget it. The pipe bombs are only false flags, planted by liberal democrats.

Starting to look like that.

But we'll have to wait for the investigation to run it's course.

But who sends out a bunch of bombs that never were intended to blow up?

Obviously intended only to create fear and sway public opinion.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Starting to look like that.

But we'll have to wait for the investigation to run it's course.

But who sends out a bunch of bombs that never were intended to blow up?

Obviously intended only to create fear and sway public opinion.

The return address proves this was obviously a political stunt designed to influence the election. The skill at making something like this indicates military training. The scope of all the bombs sent indicates an organization.

I am guessing the Russians.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The return address proves this was obviously a political stunt designed to influence the election. The skill at making something like this indicates military training. The scope of all the bombs sent indicates an organization.

I am guessing the Russians.

... ...or a 700 pound guy living in his mom's basement...

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

... ...or a 700 pound guy living in his mom's basement...

No way. The unabomber was meticulous, careful, smart, and forensically savvy. As a result it took him months, even years between bombs.

If this is some fat wannabe the police will be arresting him in 48 hours.

No way some loser in his mom's basement sends all of these bombs in a single day and isn't caught. This looks like an organization to me.

Unexploded bombs? That is total arrogance. If we can figure out who made them from fragments after an explosion, imagine being given a bunch of unexploded ones with all the wrappings.

Whoever did this was hitting a hornets nest with a baseball bat, they don't care which way the hornets fly.

The mad bomber, the unabomber, they all had an internal rage. This person doesn't have any rage at all, simply trying to provoke.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The return address proves this was obviously a political stunt designed to influence the election. The skill at making something like this indicates military training. The scope of all the bombs sent indicates an organization.

I am guessing the Russians.

The Russians seem to prefer chemicals. I would give them far more respect than these inept devices display.

Seriously though, all the news coming out seems to indicate that none of these was actually a bomb. One pro commented that the photo circulating from CNN seemed more like a stage prop. And how in the world did Jim Acosta get to take a picture of this faux-bomb?

I would guess that the level of professionalism to be found in these devices has more to do with hiding evidence than with actual explosive capability.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

... ...or a 700 pound guy living in his mom's basement...

Hey zeek, why is it your boy governor Gillum is so easily purchased?

He'll give you anything you want for tickets to Hamilton.

Thousand bucks a seat! Was it really worth it?

Do the right thing and vote for a man of character -- DeSantis.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Russians seem to prefer chemicals. I would give them far more respect than these inept devices display.

Seriously though, all the news coming out seems to indicate that none of these was actually a bomb. One pro commented that the photo circulating from CNN seemed more like a stage prop. And how in the world did Jim Acosta get to take a picture of this faux-bomb?

I would guess that the level of professionalism to be found in these devices has more to do with hiding evidence than with actual explosive capability.

The information I saw was that these were bombs, and that they were carefully designed to not explode. You are not going to get 100 NYPD and the governor involved in a faux bomb threat. NY does not have any agenda to be viewed as a dangerous place full of bombs.

Although they were not the typical MO of the Russians you are comparing apples and oranges. Whoever did this was not planning on hurting anyone. When the Russians use poison or plutonium they are planning on killing. Once again this looks completely staged. Bombers as a rule have a lot of rage burning white hot. This on the other hand does not express rage. Second the ridiculous return addresses are as blatant a political statement as you can imagine. Bombers have always been trying to make a statement, in fact it is usually resorting to bombs when no one will listen. The statement here seems clear -- remember how much you hate Clinton and the Democratic party.

On the other hand targeting everyone that Trump has singled out, particularly CNN insures that there is a lot of coverage discussing his irresponsible behavior.

Looks like an attempt to provoke ugly discourse on both sides and to make the political process that much uglier. For example look at Awareness post that conservatives are delighted with terrorist attacks, and Zeek's comment reminding us of Trump's accusation of fat guys living in their parents basement.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The information I saw was that these were bombs, and that they were carefully designed to not explode. You are not going to get 100 NYPD and the governor involved in a faux bomb threat. NY does not have any agenda to be viewed as a dangerous place full of bombs.

Although they were not the typical MO of the Russians you are comparing apples and oranges. Whoever did this was not planning on hurting anyone. When the Russians use poison or plutonium they are planning on killing. Once again this looks completely staged. Bombers as a rule have a lot of rage burning white hot. This on the other hand does not express rage. Second the ridiculous return addresses are as blatant a political statement as you can imagine. Bombers have always been trying to make a statement, in fact it is usually resorting to bombs when no one will listen. The statement here seems clear -- remember how much you hate Clinton and the Democratic party.

I guess you are right -- all evidence points to me.

I never did agree with the Dems abortion policies, and I dont know a thing about making bombs either.

Pretty conclusive. I can see why you teach forensicks. (Sic)

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hey zeek, why is it your boy governor Gillum is so easily purchased?

He'll give you anything you want for tickets to Hamilton.

Thousand bucks a seat! Was it really worth it?

Do the right thing and vote for a man of character -- DiSantis.

A guy who voted for a pussy grabbing, con artist, and pathological liar shouldn't be talking about integrity.

[ZNPaaneah]

Joe Biden, Robert Deniro, The Associated Press reported that X-rays showed the package contained a device similar to those addressed to former President Barack Obama, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, ex-CIA Director John Brennan, former Attorney General Eric Holder, Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., and billionaire philanthropist George Soros. Also, CNN. That is 9 packages and counting. That is a lot.

In simple terms, real bombers bomb; they don’t make bomb threats.
In talking to a colleague from the ATFE, I asked him how many bomb threats he had responded to over his 30-plus year-career, where he had found a real bomb and he said, “Zero.” (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...-threat-makers)

So what was this, was it a "bombing" or a "threat"? This is why this appears staged by real hunters. A real hunter doesn't know how to "howl" so they simply made a bomb that wouldn't explode, yet those who actually make bomb threats don't know how to make bombs.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

A guy who voted for a pussy grabbing, con artist, and pathological liar shouldn't be talking about integrity.

That is a deflection, didn't answer the question.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

A guy who voted for a pussy grabbing, con artist, and pathological liar shouldn't be talking about integrity.

Typical Leftist strategy -- bear false witness without a shred of evidence. You left out, however, many of your usual accusations.

Didn't you used to be a Christian? How can you publicly break the 9th Commandment.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Typical Leftist strategy -- bear false witness without a shred of evidence. You left out, however, many of your usual accusations.

Didn't you used to be a Christian? How can you publicly break the 9th Commandment.

You carp about identity politics but then want to play the Christian identity game. Were you thinking about the ninth commandment when you pronounced Gillum guilty?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You carp about identity politics but then want to play the Christian identity game. Were you thinking about the ninth commandment when you pronounced Gillum guilty?

Are you saying that your local paper and the FBI are not trustworthy?

'I got you': Texts, emails detail how Adam Corey, FBI arranged trips for Andrew Gillum

How about the Washington Post?

Perhaps you have come to your senses and stopped believing what you read in the mainstream media. Others reported it too. It does bother me when the FBI sets up a sting, however, luring officials into criminal activity.

Gillum is a dishonest Socialist, however, and he does not belong in office. DeSantis is an honorable public servant, a veteran, and a business man. He deserves your vote.

[awareness]

Enough about you guys ...

I get the tension, and the finger pointing of both sides. Somebody has to be blamed. Even if we find the guy(s) doing it, we'll have to blame those guilty of motivating him/her. And the right will point left, and the left right.

But right now they're calling this perp The MAGAbomber. Prolly a lefty started that. Who knows? There's crazies on both sides. May the best team win.

But my huge concern is that this right/left thing has become so heated that some are breaking out with acts of terrorism ; Trying to terrorize the opposition, and their supporters.

Whoever is doing it, isn't pipe bombs going just a little too far?

And then, of course, we can expect that trusty ol' tit for tat. And we're off to the races. Regardless who's at fault, this is terrorism. Right now at the Trump opponents.

Really?!? Can a Jesus-kinda-Christian touch any of this?

I'm sorry. Call me a fence sitter, neither hot nor cold - spew - but I can't be in either party. There's lots to watch out for. And the voters are unpredictable. Anything is possible. Red and Blue waves everywhere. Rough seas ... and like torpedo's

NOW PIPE BOMBS??? smh.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But my huge concern is that this right/left thing has become so heated that some are breaking out with acts of terrorism ; Trying to terrorize the opposition, and their supporters.

Whoever is doing it, isn't pipe bombs going just a little too far?

And then, of course, we can expect that trusty ol' tit for tat. And we're off to the races. Regardless who's at fault, this is terrorism. Right now at the Trump opponents.

Really?!? Can a Jesus-kinda-Christian touch any of this?

I'm sorry. Call me a fence sitter, neither hot nor cold - spew - but I can't be in either party. There's lots to watch out for. And the voters are unpredictable. Anything is possible. Red and Blue waves everywhere. Rough seas ... and like torpedo's

I find it interesting that you just now have become concerned. I have been voicing concerns about Leftist violence for some time, yet you were silent.

Are you really sitting on some fence? I'm surprised, since you only seem to condemn Trump, conservatives, Republicans, and Christians.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I find it interesting that you just now have become concerned. I have been voicing concerns about Leftist violence for some time, yet you were silent.

Are you really sitting on some fence? I'm surprised, since you only seem to condemn Trump, conservatives, Republicans, and Christians.

I'm so sorry for attacking those poor loser minority victims, and not those majority winners like democrats and atheists. And oh I love the Hildabeast.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm so sorry for attacking those poor loser minority victims, and not those majority winners like democrats and atheists. And oh I love the Hildabeast.

As ya'all say, "yer a funny guy."

[ZNPaaneah]

Back to the Pipe bombs:

Monday — suspicious device is found in Soros mailbox
Tuesday — Secret Service intercepts suspicious device in Clinton’s mailbox — this can now be viewed as an assassination attempt on a former president.
Wednesday — Secret Service intercept device in Obama’s mail. CNN and John Brennan also had devices. Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Eric Holder also had devices. Maxine Waters had two devices.
Thursday — Robert De Niro had a device found.

My point is that for the last 4 days the FBI, Secret Service, US Postal Office, and full weight of the Federal Govt along with NYPD and other law enforcement agencies have been on this case.

That is plenty of time to pull DNA evidence from these packages. You have to be very skillful with a fully equipped lab to avoid leaving DNA. Even if you don't leave DNA you should still find DNA from others like the clerks at the store where this came from.

Packages mailed in the US Postal service can be traced back to their origin, which I expect has already been done. Therefore one would think we had photographic evidence at this point concerning who mailed this.

Every component of the device can be traced to the store where it was bought, again with the potential of identifying a person who bought this.

The fact that a suspect has not yet been apprehended should impress everyone with the skill of whoever made these "crude" devices not intended to explode. Especially since none of these devices exploded giving the investigators a treasure trove of physical evidence.

The beauty of sending bombs not intended to explode is that it will support both narratives -- the one CNN is pushing about the irresponsibility of the President's rhetoric, and the one FOX is pushing about a "false flag" attack.

Therefore, due to the skill of this perpetrator, their knowledge of everyone that Trump has ridiculed along with their addresses, I consider this to be a very intelligent perp. Therefore I think it is quite reasonable to conclude that the persons intent was to stir up the debate more than anything.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The fact that a suspect has not yet been apprehended should impress everyone with the skill of whoever made these "crude" devices not intended to explode. Especially since none of these devices exploded giving the investigators a treasure trove of physical evidence.

Therefore, due to the skill of this perpetrator, their knowledge of everyone that Trump has ridiculed along with their addresses, I consider this to be a very intelligent perp. Therefore I think it is quite reasonable to conclude that the persons intent was to stir up the debate more than anything.

I said from the beginning that the level of professionalism to be found in these devices has more to do with hiding evidence than with actual explosive capability.

And to your point, we do need serious debate about bomb control legislation. Why aren't there more background checks? Did these perps have a concealed carry permit for handbombs? Should we really allow assault bombs to pass thru our mail system? How many of our legislators accept money from the NBA? These are difficult challenges, and it's about time our Congress "shut up, step up, and do your job."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are you saying that your local paper and the FBI are not trustworthy?

'I got you': Texts, emails detail how Adam Corey, FBI arranged trips for Andrew Gillum

How about the Washington Post?

Perhaps you have come to your senses and stopped believing what you read in the mainstream media. Others reported it too. It does bother me when the FBI sets up a sting, however, luring officials into criminal activity.

Gillum is a dishonest Socialist, however, and he does not belong in office. DeSantis is an honorable public servant, a veteran, and a business man. He deserves your vote.

Remember when with reference to Kavanaugh you posted

Originally Posted by Ohio

No more justice here? No more presumption of innocence?

To my knowledge Gillum hasn't been convicted of a crime. Apparently to you the presumption of innocence is only for conservatives.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Remember when with reference to Kavanaugh you posted

To my knowledge Gillum hasn't been convicted of a crime. Apparently to you the presumption of innocence is only for conservatives.

We need to look at the evidence. Why was the FBI investigating Gillum, what have they discovered, and who released this to the public.

With Blousy-Ford, she could never even pass the smell test. Why is it that no prosecutor in the country would use her story to file charges? I realize that this is too difficult for you and the Left to understand, but evidence amd objectivity is really important. Everyone implicated by her as a witness denies even being there. She can't identify the date, the place, the people ... Nothing!

Gillum is totally different. All we need is Gillum's cell phone info to verify that he was indeed at the Hamilton show. Next we need proof of purchase. Check or credit card, from him or his brother. So easy to dispute the FBI undercover agent, if true. Why has Gillum not done this? Why does he use the race card instead? How sleazy is that?

If I was Gillum, I would just admit it. Fess up to being a swamp creature. Admit that he was bribed. And own it that "every body else in Tallahassee does it too." He still might get elected. Happened before!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We need to look at the evidence. Why was the FBI investigating Gillum, what have they discovered, and who released this to the public.

With Blousy-Ford, she could never even pass the smell test. Why is it that no prosecutor in the country would use her story to file charges? I realize that this is too difficult for you and the Left to understand, but evidence amd objectivity is really important. Everyone implicated by her as a witness denies even being there. She can't identify the date, the place, the people ... Nothing!

Gillum is totally different. All we need is Gillum's cell phone info to verify that he was indeed at the Hamilton show. Next we need proof of purchase. Check or credit card, from him or his brother. So easy to dispute the FBI undercover agent, if true. Why has Gillum not done this? Why does he use the race card instead? How sleazy is that?

If I was Gillum, I would just admit it. Fess up to being a swamp creature. Admit that he was bribed. And own it that "every body else in Tallahassee does it too." He still might get elected. Happened before!

Thank you for serving as judge and jury in a trial of your own imagination on a guy who hasn't been charged with anything in stark contradiction to the principle of innocent until proven guilty which you claimed for another guy when it was politically convenient. As awareness likes to say you're a peach.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

As awareness likes to say you're a peach.

Now looky there. No pipe bombs here.

But breaking news!!!! They got him. Cesar Sayoc, Jr., 56, arrested in Plantation, Fl.

And he's not a demmie. He has a Trump mobile.

And bro ZNP was right. They got with DNA.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...lorida-n924776

Better coverage :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ier-Sayoc.html

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Now looky there. No pipe bombs here.

But breaking news!!!! They got him. Cesar Sayoc, Jr., 56, arrested in Plantation, Fl.

And he's not a demmie. He has a Trump mobile.

And bro ZNP was right. They got with DNA.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...lorida-n924776

Better coverage :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ier-Sayoc.html

Just give Mr. Ohio a second to check his extremist sources so that he knows how to spin this.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Thank you for serving as judge and jury in a trial of your own imagination on a guy who hasn't been charged with anything in stark contradiction to the principle of innocent until proven guilty which you claimed for another guy when it was politically convenient.

I never claimed Kavanaugh was "innocent until proven guilty" regarding his SCOTUS nomination. More false witness, zeeky? I repeatedly said to carefully examine all the evidence and the witnesses, and your Lousy-Ford came up wanting. Seriously wanting. One nasty sicko. Read all about her. It's that simple.

Gillum's case is completely different. And, if wrongly charged, then easily disproved. Why has Gillum not done that? If he was not at Hamilton, just provide an alibi. If he paid for the tickets, just show proof. If he was not bribed by these gifts, and did not award contracts to this undercover "lobbyist" FBI agent, then it should be easy to prove. Just do it!

But don't play the race card and claim Gillum was targeted for being Black. That's racism and politics at their swampy worst. All politicians should be held accountable. Left and right. Right?

zeek, I understand you live in or near Tallahassee. You deserve better. Or perhaps not. You get to choose. And I've heard that you're a peach too.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Interesting that we are now equally turbulent as then.

Yes, that is exactly where we are. And there is a Kitchen Aid mixer whipping it to a frenzy . . . . the Tweeter-in-chief himself. The official Divider of the United States.

We got what we wanted. Someone who fight for our "god-given rights" at any cost. (I say liitle "g" god because we gave them to ourselves. God wasn't covenentally responsible for giving them.)

And look at what it has cost.

For the first time in my voting life, I am NOT voting a straight GOP ticket. I almost did it in 2016, but did a write-in instead. I might not like everything about the politics of some of the people I will vote for, but I do like their humanity. And some opposition to the direction that the Twit in Chief is taking us.

Several years back, the movie (a comedy) My Fellow Americans followed two ex-presidents. At one point they traded their own lyrics for "Hail to the Chief." They went something like this:

Hail to the Chief
He's the Chief and he needs hailing
I am the Chief
So you better watch your step, you . . . . .

and

Hail to the Chief
If you don't I'l have to kill you

But now there needs to be a new one:

Jail to the Chief
He's a thief and he needs jailing

I know this is not popular with some, but Trump is so absolutely unfit for the job and should be fired at the first possible point in time.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

Yes, that is exactly where we are. And there is a Kitchen Aid mixer whipping it to a frenzy . . . . the Tweeter-in-chief himself. The official Divider of the United States.
We got what we wanted. Someone who fight for our "god-given rights" at any cost. (I say liitle "g" god because we gave them to ourselves. God wasn't covenentally responsible for giving them.)

And look at what it has cost.

For the first time in my voting life, I am NOT voting a straight GOP ticket. I almost did it in 2016, but did a write-in instead. I might not like everything about the politics of some of the people I will vote for, but I do like their humanity. And some opposition to the direction that the Twit in Chief is taking us.

Several years back, the movie (a comedy) My Fellow Americans followed two ex-presidents. At one point they traded their own lyrics for "Hail to the Chief." They went something like this:

Hail to the Chief
He's the Chief and he needs hailing
I am the Chief
So you better watch your step, you . . . . .

and

Hail to the Chief
If you don't I'l have to kill you

But now there needs to be a new one:

Jail to the Chief
He's a thief and he needs jailing

I know this is not popular with some, but Trump is so absolutely unfit for the job and should be fired at the first possible point in time.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant.

Yo, OBW, just like John McCain, if you wanted some "love" in your life, you did the right thing -- just hate the Trump, and the Lefty's here will love you.

Oh, and do take some time and tell us about that terrible Ted Cruz.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by OBW

Yes, that is exactly where we are. And there is a Kitchen Aid mixer whipping it to a frenzy . . . . the Tweeter-in-chief himself.

Correction : Stoker-in-chief.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

terrible Ted Cruz.

Correction : "Beautiful" Ted Cruz. Trump no longer calls him Lyin' Ted.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I said from the beginning that the level of professionalism to be found in these devices has more to do with hiding evidence than with actual explosive capability.

And to your point, we do need serious debate about bomb control legislation. Why aren't there more background checks? Did these perps have a concealed carry permit for handbombs? Should we really allow assault bombs to pass thru our mail system? How many of our legislators accept money from the NBA? These are difficult challenges, and it's about time our Congress "shut up, step up, and do your job."

The main problem with outlawing explosive capability is that all of the components are used regularly in construction. Even dirty bombs could be easily built from a host of items that are commonplace, easily obtained, and would be absurd to outlaw.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Correction : "Beautiful" Ted Cruz. Trump no longer calls him Lyin' Ted.

An example of reconciliation unknown in the LCM.

[awareness]

Christian's should sign uo :

Flip Congress for the Common Good

"We’re ready to shift the national conversation from fear to faith and flip Congress for the common good. Will you join the revolution?"

"Jesus called us to love the world. Not Christians, not us here at Vote Common Good, but the whole world. Whole. World."

https://www.votecommongood.com/tour-speakers-musicians/

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Christian's should sign uo :

Flip Congress for the Common Good

"We’re ready to shift the national conversation from fear to faith and flip Congress for the common good. Will you join the revolution?"

"Jesus called us to love the world. Not Christians, not us here at Vote Common Good, but the whole world. Whole. World."

This is just a bunch of nonsense to fool the ignorant. Here is their mission statement:

Vote Common Good is the mission of being in the here and now of this historical moment.

We want to dislodge control of Congress from the Republican Party on November 6th, because we believe that this would most directly affect common good in our country. That’s our chosen strategy for this midterm. For another election, we may have another strategy, irrespective of a party.

This has always been the Socialist message of the Left. "Hey let's give control of Congress to the Left, since they're so kind, honest, loving, and decent." That's what Pelosi and Schumer told us.

If you really want to understand the Left, looking past their many deceptions, you need to watch their "agents of change" -- the masked ANTIFA/BLM/Occupy types attacking innocent people, shutting down free speech, and destroying property.

With Capitalism, we do have rich and poor people. With Socialism we only have poor people.

Yes, let's flip Congress, promote Socialism, love everybody, and become like Venzuela!

[zeek]

Yesterday, 01:26 PM #4577 [QUOTE=Ohio;81050]I never claimed Kavanaugh was "innocent until proven guilty" regarding his SCOTUS nomination.

09-29-2018, 12:06 PM #4324 [QUOTE=Ohio;80117] The Democrats never gave him the presumption of innocence. They demanded more than perfection.

09-26-2018, 06:55 PM #4295 [QUOTE=Ohio;80005]No more justice here? No more presumption of innocence?

[zeek]

In my 68 years I've never seen a president stoke division and violence like Trump does.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

In my 68 years I've never seen a president stoke division and violence like Trump does.

Yer a funny guy. Didn't you live thru the riots of the 60's?

[Ohio]

Bad day for the Left's Legendary Lawyer and Savior Michael Avenatti.

The Senate Judiciary Chairman has 2 referrals to the DOJ regarding him.

Yes, zeek, he has the presumption of innocence until he is convicted for deceiving Congress.

[Ohio]

[QUOTE=zeek;81071]Yesterday, 01:26 PM #4577 [QUOTE=Ohio;81050]I never claimed Kavanaugh was "innocent until proven guilty" regarding his SCOTUS nomination.

09-29-2018, 12:06 PM #4324 [QUOTE=Ohio;80117] The Democrats never gave him the presumption of innocence. They demanded more than perfection.

09-26-2018, 06:55 PM #4295

Originally Posted by Ohio

No more justice here? No more presumption of innocence?

Big difference here, my friend.

Criminal courts require that the indicted are "innocent until proven guilty" in a court of law.

But in the court of public opinion, "the presumption of innocence" is required at least until the facts can be brought forth, especially in so-called SCOTUS "job interviews."

Sorry, zeek, but I'm continually amazed at how readily gullible you are to believe the lie. If God and His word are the source of wisdom, then what will forsaking God and His word leave you with?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yer a funny guy. Didn't you live thru the riots of the 60's?

Neither Johnson nor Nixon intentionally called for division and violence the way Trump does.

[zeek]

[QUOTE=Ohio;81075][QUOTE=zeek;81071]Yesterday, 01:26 PM #4577 [QUOTE=Ohio;81050]I never claimed Kavanaugh was "innocent until proven guilty" regarding his SCOTUS nomination.

09-29-2018, 12:06 PM #4324

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Democrats never gave him the presumption of innocence. They demanded more than perfection.

09-26-2018, 06:55 PM #4295
Big difference here, my friend.

Criminal courts require that the indicted are "innocent until proven guilty" in a court of law.

But in the court of public opinion, "the presumption of innocence" is required at least until the facts can be brought forth, especially in so-called SCOTUS "job interviews."

Sorry, zeek, but I'm continually amazed at how readily gullible you are to believe the lie. If God and His word are the source of wisdom, then what will forsaking God and His word leave you with?

You're the one who used the presumption of innocence to defend Kavanaugh while parroting Trump and then denied that you had and now are giving your explanation of your confused thinking about it. You apparently consider your thinking a product of God's wisdom which would be if it weren't so .

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Neither Johnson nor Nixon intentionally called for division and violence the way Trump does.

No, they just sent tens of thousands of kids drafted to go fight a war in Vietnam for "national defense"? That was as divisive a time as we have every seen in my lifetime.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

No, they just sent tens of thousands of kids drafted to go fight a war in Vietnam for "national defense"? That was as divisive a time as we have every seen in my lifetime.

That was misguided to say the least. I never saw them deliberately promote civic division like Trump does.As a matter of fact they tried to unite the people in support of their cause which they saw as necessary. If you don't see what I'm talking about, feel free to let it go. I'm not trying to persuade you of something you don't see. That would be a waste of time. I'm just witnessing to my truth.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Neither Johnson nor Nixon intentionally called for division and violence the way Trump does.

You are horribly misguided by a deceitful media.

Trump never called for violence.

And division? Isn't that called politics?

And obviously your news sources have not informed you of Pelosi's, DeNero's, Madonna's, Holder's, Maxine's, Hilary's, etc. calls for violence.

The Blind leading the Blind!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

That was misguided to say the least. I never saw them deliberately promote civic division like Trump does.As a matter of fact they tried to unite the people in support of their cause which they saw as necessary. If you don't see what I'm talking about, feel free to let it go. I'm not trying to persuade you of something you don't see. That would be a waste of time. I'm just witnessing to my truth.

Me too. Nothing so divisive as telling us we need to go fight and die in Vietnam for the national defense when that was total BS, simply a place for our Military industrial complex to do R&D.

As a result kids went ballistic, riots, songs, leaving for Canada, etc.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

That was misguided to say the least. I never saw them deliberately promote civic division like Trump does.As a matter of fact they tried to unite the people in support of their cause which they saw as necessary. If you don't see what I'm talking about, feel free to let it go. I'm not trying to persuade you of something you don't see. That would be a waste of time. I'm just witnessing to my truth.

Misguided? Running the Viet Nam war out of the Oval Office is worse than misguided, but we all know how blind you are to every fault of the Left.

There is lots of evidence out there that Viet Nam was a false flag operation. At least JFK had the sense to stop it, and that's prolly why he got killed. The FIRST thing LBJ did in office was to reverse JFK's decision on Viet Nam.

LBJ and JEHoover did more to divide our country than any others in history, with the exception of the Civil War.

[awareness]

I just heard this morning the Trump is really miffed. That the pipe bombs didn't go off.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Misguided? Running the Viet Nam war out of the Oval Office is worse than misguided, but we all know how blind you are to every fault of the Left.

There is lots of evidence out there that Viet Nam was a false flag operation. At least JFK had the sense to stop it, and that's prolly why he got killed. The FIRST thing LBJ did in office was to reverse JFK's decision on Viet Nam.

LBJ and JEHoover did more to divide our country than any others in history, with the exception of the Civil War.

Conservatives supported the Viet Nam war. It was part of the struggle against Communism. Are you a commie?

[Ohio]

[QUOTE=zeek;81077][QUOTE=Ohio;81075]

Originally Posted by zeek

You're the one who used the presumption of innocence to defend Kavanaugh while parroting Trump and then denied that you had and now are giving your explanation of your confused thinking about it.

You don't like my explanation? What else is new.

Let me repeat.

The presumption of innocence is part of the American experience, reaching every part of our culture. It is needed now more than ever with this evil, crooked media we have. This is designed to protect the innocent from evil lies and false witnesses, as in Brett Kavanaugh's and Clarence Thomas's situations.

This presumption of innocence does NOT mean that someone cannot be found guilty in the court of public opinion. That will be determined by fair-minded individuals as evidence comes forward. In the case of that Lousy-Ford, she either lied or pled ignorance to every detail of the event for 36 years, but knew for sure that it was Kavanaugh. She had zero corroboration of any evidence whatsoever. It says a whole lot about your character when you are willing to believe such people.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is the judicial standard for conviction according to the various thresholds defined by law, i.e. "the burden of proof," e.g. "beyond a reasonable doubt, a preponderance of evidence," etc.

Apparently the media has robbed you of this little bit of common sense "wisdom." And you are almost 70 yo?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Conservatives supported the Viet Nam war. It was part of the struggle against Communism. Are you a commie?

The Communist Party has long been affiliated with the liberal Left.

Look in the mirror, my friend.


Obama was affiliated with that 60's bomber, Bill Ayers, and followed that commie, Saul Alinsky.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Communist Party has long been affiliated with the liberal Left.

Look in the mirror, my friend.


Obama was affiliated with that 60's bomber, Bill Ayers, and followed that commie, Saul Alinsky.

You're a True Believer of far-right propaganda like your buddy Cesar Sayoc.

[zeek]

[QUOTE=Ohio;81086][QUOTE=zeek;81077]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You don't like my explanation? What else is new.

Let me repeat.

The presumption of innocence is part of the American experience, reaching every part of our culture. It is needed now more than ever with this evil, crooked media we have. This is designed to protect the innocent from evil lies and false witnesses, as in Brett Kavanaugh's and Clarence Thomas's situations.

This presumption of innocence does NOT mean that someone cannot be found guilty in the court of public opinion. That will be determined by fair-minded individuals as evidence comes forward. In the case of that Lousy-Ford, she either lied or pled ignorance to every detail of the event for 36 years, but knew for sure that it was Kavanaugh. She had zero corroboration of any evidence whatsoever. It says a whole lot about your character when you are willing to believe such people.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is the judicial standard for conviction according to the various thresholds defined by law, i.e. "the burden of proof," e.g. "beyond a reasonable doubt, a preponderance of evidence," etc.

Apparently the media has robbed you of this little bit of common sense "wisdom." And you are almost 70 yo?

With many words you try to obfuscate the fact that you extended the presumption of innocence to Kavanaugh but denied it to Gillum.

[ZNPaaneah]

[QUOTE=Ohio;81086][QUOTE=zeek;81077]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You don't like my explanation? What else is new.

Let me repeat.

The presumption of innocence is part of the American experience, reaching every part of our culture. It is needed now more than ever with this evil, crooked media we have. This is designed to protect the innocent from evil lies and false witnesses, as in Brett Kavanaugh's and Clarence Thomas's situations.

This presumption of innocence does NOT mean that someone cannot be found guilty in the court of public opinion. That will be determined by fair-minded individuals as evidence comes forward. In the case of that Lousy-Ford, she either lied or pled ignorance to every detail of the event for 36 years, but knew for sure that it was Kavanaugh. She had zero corroboration of any evidence whatsoever. It says a whole lot about your character when you are willing to believe such people.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is the judicial standard for conviction according to the various thresholds defined by law, i.e. "the burden of proof," e.g. "beyond a reasonable doubt, a preponderance of evidence," etc.

Apparently the media has robbed you of this little bit of common sense "wisdom." And you are almost 70 yo?

The Law in the OT was very clear, you could not convict someone based on one witness. In addition if someone is convicted of being a false witness they were supposed to be given the judgement that they were trying to put on someone else. Now the woman who accused Kavanaugh of working with others to gang rape her should be convicted of being a false witness.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The Law in the OT was very clear, you could not convict someone based on one witness. In addition if someone is convicted of being a false witness they were supposed to be given the judgement that they were trying to put on someone else. Now the woman who accused Kavanaugh of working with others to gang rape her should be convicted of being a false witness.

As one who has been hit with a few false accusations, I like this part of the OT Law.

Does this also apply to creepy porn lawyers like Avenatti?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

With many words you try to obfuscate the fact that you extended the presumption of innocence to Kavanaugh but denied it to Gillum.

I applied the same standard to both. First you complain I was not clear enough, then you complain I use too many words.

Kavan-awesome came up innocent by every standard.

Lousy-Ford was a sick, false witness, victimized by Senator Frankenstein and the Left.

GlueLam had his chance to clear his name, but instead he played the race card.

Vote DeSantis! Vote America! Vote Integrity!

[ZNPaaneah]

[QUOTE=Ohio;81091][QUOTE=ZNPaaneah;81090]

Originally Posted by Ohio

As one who has been hit with a few false accusations, I like this part of the OT Law.

Does this also apply to creepy porn lawyers like Avenatti?

Whoa! What? Avenatti has made false accusations about you? I was sure you were going to say Zeek.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Whoa! What? Avenatti has made false accusations about you? I was sure you were going to say Zeek.

Neither, just a comment about false witnesses in my lifetime.

God's law is fair and just.


But zeek did accuse me of being a friend of Cesar Sayoc.

[Ohio]

At Least 8 Dead and Officers Shot in Saturday Morning Attack on Synagogue

Wow! Just saw this. Violence strikes close to home. I used to live down the street from this synagogue.

[awareness]

[QUOTE=Ohio;81091][QUOTE=ZNPaaneah;81090]

Originally Posted by Ohio

As one who has been hit with a few false accusations, I like this part of the OT Law.

Does this also apply to creepy porn lawyers like Avenatti?

This post is screwed up. Bro zeek didn't say the material quoted. Prolly ZNP did.

So bro Ohio, fix it. Or I will.

[manna-man]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I applied the same standard to both. First you complain I was not clear enough, then you complain I use too many words.

Kavan-awesome came up innocent by every standard.

Lousy-Ford was a sick, false witness, victimized by Senator Frankenstein and the Left.

GlueLam had his chance to clear his name, but instead he played the race card.

Vote DeSantis! Vote America! Vote Integrity!

DeSantis has my vote!

[Ohio]

The Left's greatest nightmare:


BLEXIT: the BLack EXIT from the Democrat party.





Incredible Logo artwork by Kanye West, inspired by a trip that he and Candace Owens took to Uganda in Africa.

[Ohio]

More bad news for zeek and his boy gov'ner Gillum ...

Democrat Andrew Gillum Billed FBI Undercover Agent $4,386 For Fundraiser, Never Disclosed In Finance Reports


Advice to Gillum: Keep your eyes on the agents under the covers

[ZNPaaneah]

In 2017 anti semitic attacks increased 67% from 2016. That surge has continued into 2018.

https://www.adl.org/news/press-relea...mpared-to-2016

[awareness]

1) A Trump lover, and pipe bombs.

2) A Trump hater, and shooting at synagogue.

3) Both white supremacists.

4) Must be those very fine people on both sides, that Trump mentioned about those at Charlottesville.

5) I'm sick of winning. And so glad America is great again.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

1) A Trump lover, and pipe bombs.

2) A Trump hater, and shooting at synagogue.

3) Both white supremacists.

4) Must be those very fine people on both sides, that Trump mentioned about those at Charlottesville.

What happened to you?

Your hatred for Trump is making you sick.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

More bad news for zeek and his boy gov'ner Gillum ...

Democrat Andrew Gillum Billed FBI Undercover Agent $4,386 For Fundraiser, Never Disclosed In Finance Reports


Advice to Gillum: Keep your eyes on the agents under the covers

Give him the same presumption of innocence that you gave to Kavanaugh. Neither have been found guilty in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty.

Aren't you shocked by your own legal relativism coming as it does from a professed conservative? What have you become since leaving THE CHURCH, some kind of postmodernist?

But, whatever you do, keep eshewing the mainstream media. Continue consuming and believing the extremist screeds that tell you what you want to hear. Those are the ones that radicalized Right-wing activist Caesar Sayoc. That's why all he went after the same people that you castigate with hate every day on this thread. You two guys are reading the same stuff.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

In 2017 anti semitic attacks increased 67% from 2016. That surge has continued into 2018.

https://www.adl.org/news/press-relea...mpared-to-2016

Hmm? I wonder what happened in 2017 that might have encourage them? It couldn't be that that's when Donald Trump took office could it?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Give him the same presumption of innocence that you gave to Kavanaugh. Neither have been found guilty in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty.

Aren't you shocked by your own legal relativism coming as it does from a professed conservative? What have you become since leaving THE CHURCH, some kind of postmodernist?

But, whatever you do, keep eshewing the mainstream media. Continue consuming and believing the extremist screeds that tell you what you want to hear. Those are the ones that radicalized Right-wing activist Caesar Sayoc. That's why all he went after the same people that you castigate with hate every day on this thread. You two guys are reading the same stuff.

During the Kavanaugh nomination, every Democratic Senator clamored unceasingly for an FBI investigation. That's exactly what they got with Gillum!

And zeek is still whining (wining?) away the day! Give him what he wants and he just keeps crying!

Vote DeSantis! Vote integrity! Vote America!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What happened to you?

Your hatred for Trump is making you sick.

No brother, what I've seen going on this week is making me sick. And your complicity in demagoguery is disturbing.

[zeek]

No to divisive, hateful rhetoric and the fomenting of it.
Yes to public policies that make minorities secure.
Yes to the idea that we are all called to love.
Yes to the idea that God is inclusive love.

http://www.openhorizons.org/after-th...lgQXMQyt3nHgq0

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Vote DeSantis! Vote integrity! Vote America!

Integrity? Bahahahaha. Unless white supremacy is integrity to you.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

No to divisive, hateful rhetoric and the fomenting of it.
Yes to public policies that make minorities secure.
Yes to the idea that we are all called to love.
Yes to the idea that God is inclusive love.

http://www.openhorizons.org/after-th...lgQXMQyt3nHgq0

The heading to the article says :

In appreciation of Rabbi Bradley Shavit Artson's ministry, and his sharing of rabbinic wisdom with the wider world, Muslims and Christians included,

by Farhan Shah and Jay McDaniel

I'm impressed by the inclusion of Muslim's ... and their response to the killing of Jews at the synagogue :

"Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) released a statement on Saturday in solidarity with the Jewish community.

“We condemn this heinous and cowardly attack on a house of worship, offer heartfelt condolences to the loved ones of all those who were killed or injured and express our solidarity with the Jewish community during this time of shock and grief,” said program director Zohra Lasania."

AMEN !!!

[awareness]

Pence is supporting Trump's stochastic terrorism speaking.

'I just don't think you can connect it to threats or acts of violence': Pence dismisses any suggestions of a link between Trump's rhetoric and the MAGAbomber or Pittsburgh shooting

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...c-attacks.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Hmm? I wonder what happened in 2017 that might have encourage them? It couldn't be that that's when Donald Trump took office could it?

I think it is reasonable to assume that the Arab nations are taking advantage of our social media the same way we know the Russians and Chinese are.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think it is reasonable to assume that the Arab nations are taking advantage of our social media the same way we know the Russians and Chinese are.

Or maybe as Trump suggested, it's a 400 pound hacker in his basement.

[awareness]

“President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism,” the leaders of the local chapter of Bend the Arc wrote, adding:

“For the past three years, your words and your policies have emboldened a growing white nationalist movement. You yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday’s violence is the direct culmination of your influence.”

The group said Trump’s rhetoric had not only led to attacks on Jewish people, but also “deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people and people with disabilities.”

The organization also demanded that Trump “stop targeting and endangering all minorities,” “cease your assault on immigrants and refugees” and “commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.”

https://www.bendthearc.us/open_lette...resident_trump

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

“President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism,” the leaders of the local chapter of Bend the Arc wrote, adding:

“For the past three years, your words and your policies have emboldened a growing white nationalist movement. You yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday’s violence is the direct culmination of your influence.”

The group said Trump’s rhetoric had not only led to attacks on Jewish people, but also “deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people and people with disabilities.”

The organization also demanded that Trump “stop targeting and endangering all minorities,” “cease your assault on immigrants and refugees” and “commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.”

https://www.bendthearc.us/open_lette...resident_trump

A house divided cannot stand.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

“President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism,” the leaders of the local chapter of Bend the Arc wrote, adding:

“For the past three years, your words and your policies have emboldened a growing white nationalist movement. You yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday’s violence is the direct culmination of your influence.”

The group said Trump’s rhetoric had not only led to attacks on Jewish people, but also “deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people and people with disabilities.”

The organization also demanded that Trump “stop targeting and endangering all minorities,” “cease your assault on immigrants and refugees” and “commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.”

These "progressive" Jewish voices also hate George Bush, PM Netanyahu, the nation of Israel, Jesus Christ, etc.

They have no idea who their real friends and enemies are. They even stand up for the "oppressed" Palestinians.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

These "progressive" Jewish voices also hate George Bush, PM Netanyahu, the nation of Israel, Jesus Christ, etc.

They have no idea who their real friends and enemies are. They even stand up for the "oppressed" Palestinians.

Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed is anyone who with holds Justice from The Foreigner, the fatherless or the Widow. Then all the people shall say Amen. Exodus 12:49 the same law applies both to the native-born and to The Foreigner residing among you. Exodus 23: 9 do not oppress a foreigner. You yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners because you were foreigners in Egypt.

[zeek]

I read an excerpt of Ron DiSantis' book here :https://www.amazon.com/Dreams-Our-Fo...MJCYVCTPWN0NAK

But, I haven't bought the book so I don't know if it's true that he excuses the Three-Fifths Compromise in the U.S. Constitution, which counted a black person as only three-fifths of a whole person to determine congressional representation.

I read that DeSantis defends the founding fathers for agreeing to the compromise because “counting slaves as less than a full person for purposes of representation benefited anti-slavery states.” DeSantis supposedly maintains that allowing slaves to be counted as three-fifths of a white person gave slave states extra representation without having to actually allow black people to vote.

Sounds like he thinks the Constitution is inerrant and holding black slaves as less than fully persons was a good thing . That can't be true. Has anybody read his book?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed is anyone who with holds Justice from The Foreigner, the fatherless or the Widow. Then all the people shall say Amen. Exodus 12:49 the same law applies both to the native-born and to The Foreigner residing among you. Exodus 23: 9 do not oppress a foreigner. You yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners because you were foreigners in Egypt.

Who is oppressing foreigners? Certainly not the Trump administration!

Trump admin even stopped putting children in fenced cages, which the Obama admin practiced.

All foreigners in Israel had to abide by the LAW. This is exactly what Trump demands. This policy protects both citizens AND immigrants.

Sorry if this violates your snowflake sensibilities and perverted progressivism. What a deceitful way to increase voter registration for the Democrats!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I read an excerpt of Ron DiSantis' book here :https://www.amazon.com/Dreams-Our-Fo...MJCYVCTPWN0NAK

But, I haven't bought the book so I don't know if it's true that he excuses the Three-Fifths Compromise in the U.S. Constitution, which counted a black person as only three-fifths of a whole person to determine congressional representation.

I read that DeSantis defends the founding fathers for agreeing to the compromise because “counting slaves as less than a full person for purposes of representation benefited anti-slavery states.” DeSantis supposedly maintains that allowing slaves to be counted as three-fifths of a white person gave slave states extra representation without having to actually allow black people to vote.

Sounds like he thinks the Constitution is inerrant and holding black slaves as less than fully persons was a good thing . That can't be true. Has anybody read his book?

zeek, I thought you wanted *honest* public servants who did not use office for personal gains?

Surely you can't still be supporting Gillum, who is under FBI investigation for ethical violations, bribes, and corruption.

#BELIEVEtheFBI

What do we know about the FBI cloud over Andrew Gillum's campaign?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Who is oppressing foreigners? Certainly not the Trump administration!

Trump admin even stopped putting children in fenced cages, which the Obama admin practiced.

All foreigners in Israel had to abide by the LAW. This is exactly what Trump demands. This policy protects both citizens AND immigrants.

Sorry if this violates your snowflake sensibilities and perverted progressivism. What a deceitful way to increase voter registration for the Democrats!

Yeah it was a snowflake who wrote those verses in the Bible which you chose to ignore.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

zeek, I thought you wanted *honest* public servants who did not use office for personal gains?

Surely you can't still be supporting Gillum, who is under FBI investigation for ethical violations, bribes, and corruption.

#BELIEVEtheFBI

What do we know about the FBI cloud over Andrew Gillum's campaign?

Did you answer my question?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Yeah it was a snowflake who wrote those verses in the Bible which you chose to ignore.

It is interesting that the Left has finally begun to "search the scriptures." Unfortunately for them, they search as did the Pharisees of old.

I never ignored those scriptures. I agree with them wholeheartedly. But when the Philistines or other enemies came marching into Israel, did they treat them as "foreigners" or an invading army?

Obviously you cannot tell the difference. When 80% of these "refugees" are young, able, healthy young men, that should be a clue.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Did you answer my question?

And then some!

[Ohio]

This is how the LEFT teaches to "love your neighbor":

Death Threats, Assaults, Vandalism: over 40 Acts of Left-Wing Thuggery in October, So Far…

And then zeek will lecture us to "love" the invading army of illegal "foreigners" at the border.

zeek, why do you and your ilk only love those who support your socialist ideology to overthrow our country?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is how the LEFT teaches to "love your neighbor":

Death Threats, Assaults, Vandalism: over 40 Acts of Left-Wing Thuggery in October, So Far…

And then zeek will lecture us to "love" the invading army of illegal "foreigners" at the border.

zeek, why do you and your ilk only love those who support your socialist ideology to overthrow our country?

You wish to be accepted as an individual but I have to have an ilk. Why doesn't that seem fair?

[jeff of jesus grace]

Originally Posted by zeek

Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed is anyone who with holds Justice from The Foreigner, the fatherless or the Widow. Then all the people shall say Amen. Exodus 12:49 the same law applies both to the native-born and to The Foreigner residing among you. Exodus 23: 9 do not oppress a foreigner. You yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners because you were foreigners in Egypt.

"THE SAME LAW"

Study Bible
Idolaters to Be Put to Death
…8 you must not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity, and do not spare him or shield him. 9 Instead, you must surely kill him. Your hand must be the first against him to put him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death for trying to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.…Berean Study Bible · Download

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You wish to be accepted as an individual but I have to have an ilk. Why doesn't that seem fair?

If you would stop with the name-calling and accusations of idolatry, perhaps we could discuss the issues themselves.

The great US columnist Charles Krauthammer once noted this truth about contemporary political life in America: ‘To understand the workings of American politics you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.’

Herein lies the problem. Conservatives see the Left having only stupid and failing ideas. Liberals see the Right as having evil intentions and motives, and being evil people. Since those on the Right are evil, they are labeled "racists, xenophobes, misogynists, homophobes, supremacists, fascists, etc." whether there is evidence or not. I constantly hear this from the media and the posts I read.

This dynamic prevents the discussion of ideas on their merits. It also becomes justification for using any means necessary. This is extremely unfortunate, as it seems to be pushing us towards riots and violence. If the Left continues this way, then fringes on the Right will react in kind. I hope not, not just because I abhor the violence, but because I know that those who do not support the 2nd Amendment will get the worst of it.

In politics the "discussion of ideas" should take place in Congress. That is our American system. If the results are not satisfactory, then too bad, wait for the next election. When ObamaCare came before the SCOTUS, as much as I hated that legislation, I agreed with Chief Justice Roberts -- the law was enacted in Congress, signed by the elected President, and so be it. Let there be higher taxes.

Personally I think "gridlock" in Congress is a good thing. It's only bad when the POTUS then feels justified to enact Executive Orders, and the Courts become activist agents for change.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

“President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism,” the leaders of the local chapter of Bend the Arc wrote, adding:

“For the past three years, your words and your policies have emboldened a growing white nationalist movement. You yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday’s violence is the direct culmination of your influence.”

The group said Trump’s rhetoric had not only led to attacks on Jewish people, but also “deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people and people with disabilities.”

The organization also demanded that Trump “stop targeting and endangering all minorities,” “cease your assault on immigrants and refugees” and “commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.”

https://www.bendthearc.us/open_lette...resident_trump

Every news event is used by the media to divide America:

Tree of Life Rabbi to CNN: Trump ‘Always Welcome’ at Our Synagogue, ‘He Is My President’

How unfortunate that some voices were used by the Media to smear Trump, and then others are forced to speak up on behalf of Trump.

[jeff of jesus grace]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I guess the "cure for cancer" was simply a bonus to teaching us how to read the news. Shame that this "one cure for cancer" was covered up by the US govt.

Revelation 18: "the whole world is deceived by pharmakeia" ....


Following up on your earlier post about making cancer illegal.

It is too profitable to do that.

Instead, in the forties and fifties, they made curing cancer illegal, as it is (for the most part) still today.

Much much more money in disease than there is in preventing and curing disease, even though preventing most disease (without drugs) is easier than causing it or allowing it to happen often then pretending to "care" and given "feel better" things for it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If you would stop with the name-calling and accusations of idolatry, perhaps we could discuss the issues themselves.

The great US columnist Charles Krauthammer once noted this truth about contemporary political life in America: ‘To understand the workings of American politics you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.’

Herein lies the problem. Conservatives see the Left having only stupid and failing ideas. Liberals see the Right as having evil intentions and motives, and being evil people. Since those on the Right are evil, they are labeled "racists, xenophobes, misogynists, homophobes, supremacists, fascists, etc." whether there is evidence or not. I constantly hear this from the media and the posts I read.

This dynamic prevents the discussion of ideas on their merits. It also becomes justification for using any means necessary. This is extremely unfortunate, as it seems to be pushing us towards riots and violence. If the Left continues this way, then fringes on the Right will react in kind. I hope not, not just because I abhor the violence, but because I know that those who do not support the 2nd Amendment will get the worst of it.

In politics the "discussion of ideas" should take place in Congress. That is our American system. If the results are not satisfactory, then too bad, wait for the next election. When ObamaCare came before the SCOTUS, as much as I hated that legislation, I agreed with Chief Justice Roberts -- the law was enacted in Congress, signed by the elected President, and so be it. Let there be higher taxes.

Personally I think "gridlock" in Congress is a good thing. It's only bad when the POTUS then feels justified to enact Executive Orders, and the Courts become activist agents for change.

Krauthammer was the founder of the Never Trump movement. I agreed with him on that. He was an agnostic Jew who claimed he was a better Christian than Trump. I believe him. I'll get back to you tomorrow on the other stuff.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by jeff of jesus grace

Revelation 18: "the whole world is deceived by pharmakeia" ....


Following up on your earlier post about making cancer illegal.

It is too profitable to do that.

Instead, in the forties and fifties, they made curing cancer illegal, as it is (for the most part) still today.

Much much more money in disease than there is in preventing and curing disease, even though preventing most disease (without drugs) is easier than causing it or allowing it to happen often then pretending to "care" and given "feel better" things for it.

And the evidence with which you support this claim is...?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Krauthammer was the founder of the Never Trump movement. I agreed with him on that. He was an agnostic Jew who claimed he was a better Christian than Trump. I believe him. I'll get back to you tomorrow on the other stuff.

The key here is "was." After Krauthammer saw Trump govern, he changed his attitude, and was no longer a "never-Trumper." I too went thru a similar journey with Trump. I did not vote for Trump in the primary. Like Krauthammer, many conservatives needed time to assess who Trump really was. Getting past the ego, Trump is one of the few politicians who actually intends to keep campaign promises.

Trump never ran as a "better" Christian. Unlike Obama, Trump did not falsely claim to be "born again." This returns us to the age old hypocrisy concerning the demands for morality in office. For years we were lectured to ignore Clinton's infidelities in lieu of "job performance." What saved Clinton cannot also clear Trump? Recent court developments even question the validity of old Trump affairs.

Think about Gillum as you answer!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Think about Gillum as you answer!

I don't vote in Florida, and have not seen any evidence that Gillum is guilty of fraud or theft, but I think his response about "not wrestling with a pig" is lame. You are running for office, there is an allegation of fraud in your position as mayor and there is an allegation of corruption in the city that you were mayor of. Responding that you don't "wrestle with pigs" because you will get dirty is pathetic. At the very least come out and say "not guilty". If you want, spice it up a little and say "fake news" you could even go so far as to call the media pushing this narrative "the enemy".

It is a valid question to ask anyone running for office and should be responded to in a way that clearly and emphatically denies wrong doing.

"My grandmother told me not to wrestle with pigs" is a deflection and indicates deceit.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't vote in Florida, and have not seen any evidence that Gillum is guilty of fraud or theft

You are running for office, there is an allegation of fraud in your position as mayor and there is an allegation of corruption in the city that you were mayor of.

Gillum has serious charges against him since they are made by undercover FBI agents. Of course he is not "guilty" of a crime without it being proven in the court of law. But as you know, the quality of the witness against one in court means everything. Ask Manafort. The IRS wants their money!

Personally I doubt that Gillum has not done anything that 80-90% of politicians have not done. Think about how politicians become so wealthy in office. Many are worth 10-100 times what their salary paid in office. How does that work? That's why I say that it is a given that all politicians are liars and crooks. That's like baseline morality. We build on that, good or bad.

Were Gillum a Republican, the media would be all over it. He would be publicly lynched. But as a progressive he mostly gets a free pass. If elected, will the DOJ file charges? They did against Menendez, and he may still win in NJ.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"My grandmother told me not to wrestle with pigs" is a deflection and indicates deceit.

My grandmother told me not to lie or steal.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

My grandmother told me not to lie or steal.

Trump should have listened to your grandmother.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump should have listened to your grandmother.

If you were not so blinded by hate, I think you would see Trump as a forthright, results-oriented, and transparent President. As it is, you have lived off a media diet of biased fake news for years. Try to rationally analyze the accusations against Trump. Think about the Russian collusion charges which you bought into. After two years, they have nothing on Trump, so what do you think about all those who were so sure about him? Next think about the charges of white supremecy / anti semitism / fascism. No facts, but who cares? His daughter is Jewish. His support for Israel is second to none. But everyone seems to hate the guy so all mud-slinging is applauded. And celebrated in the media.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump should have listened to your grandmother.

That is fake news! There is no evidence that Trump ever talked to Ohio's grandmother.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If you were not so blinded by hate, I think you would see Trump as a forthright, results-oriented, and transparent President.

Are we still talking about the psychedelic drugs?

Originally Posted by Ohio

As it is, you have lived off a media diet of biased fake news for years. Try to rationally analyze the accusations against Trump.

Vulgar. Rude. Incendiary.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Think about the Russian collusion charges which you bought into. After two years, they have nothing on Trump, so what do you think about all those who were so sure about him?

Many, many indictments and guilty pleas. So far I am happy with how taxpayer money is spent and no doubt the investigation is not over, simply keeping quiet during the election.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Next think about the charges of white supremecy / anti semitism / fascism. No facts, but who cares?

Perhaps, but it is undeniable that those of that persuasion are overwhelmingly pro Trump.

Originally Posted by Ohio

His daughter is Jewish. His support for Israel is second to none. But everyone seems to hate the guy so all mud-slinging is applauded. And celebrated in the media.

I don't consider him to be anti Jewish, rather I consider him to be a nationalist, and of course he is white, and he is strongly anti immigration, protectionist, even perhaps xenophobic. I also consider his conversation to be frank, transparent, incendiary, and undignified.

[zeek]

How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence? Here's an opinion: "The president and his supporters insisted that several thousand Honduran migrants were a looming menace—and the Pittsburgh gunman took that seriously."

Before committing the Tree of Life massacre, the shooter, who blamed Jews for the caravan of “invaders” and who raged about it on social media, made it clear that he was furious at HIAS, founded as the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, a Jewish group that helps resettle refugees in the United States. He shared posts on Gab, a social-media site popular with the alt-right, expressing alarm at the sight of “massive human caravans of young men from Honduras and El Salvador invading America thru our unsecured southern border.” And then he wrote, HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...n-jews/574213/

So, I repeat the question: How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence? Here's an opinion: "The president and his supporters insisted that several thousand Honduran migrants were a looming menace—and the Pittsburgh gunman took that seriously."

Before committing the Tree of Life massacre, the shooter, who blamed Jews for the caravan of “invaders” and who raged about it on social media, made it clear that he was furious at HIAS, founded as the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, a Jewish group that helps resettle refugees in the United States. He shared posts on Gab, a social-media site popular with the alt-right, expressing alarm at the sight of “massive human caravans of young men from Honduras and El Salvador invading America thru our unsecured southern border.” And then he wrote, HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...n-jews/574213/

So, I repeat the question: How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence?

It's like Domino's. You can't blame the first one for knocking down the last one.

Trump blames the media. The violence is their fault, for reporting and recording his inflammatory rhetoric.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't consider him to be anti Jewish, rather I consider him to be a nationalist, and of course he is white, and he is strongly anti immigration, protectionist, even perhaps xenophobic. I also consider his conversation to be frank, transparent, incendiary, and undignified.

What's wrong with NATIONALISM? It's the same as patriotism.

I strongly protest the accusations of "strongly anti immigration, even perhaps xenophobic." In this regard Trump only reverberates the desires of Americans. I do think "protectionist" is a great thing, however. Except for Obama, show me one President in history who was not PROTECTIONIST? Xenophobism is a false accusation. Trump only demands immigration that is legal and does not threaten American citizens. Sounds to me like "Law and Order."

Why is it that every politician, including Obama, Clintons', Schumer, etc. is on record supporting a southern wall and limits to immigration? Ten years ago even the Left would have been appalled at the thought of "Sanctuary" cities. My, how has America changed.

And how have you changed? Just because conservatives have resisted the daily onslaught of progressive ideology, gone crazy during the Obama era, does not mean we are guilty of any of the "-ISTS" and "-OBES" that we are accused of. It seems to me that you hate Trump because he fights back, as if being "presidential" means to be wimpy, and taken advantage of by the rest of the world, including the UN.

[zeek]

Not only does Trump stoke violence with his divisive, xenophobic rhetoric, but he shut down programs to counter violent extremism. His "administration has hobbled the infrastructure designed to prevent atrocities like Pittsburgh."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...hbD-FB8asQzMiI

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

So, I repeat the question: How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence?

This guy in Pittsburgh despised Jews and hated Trump for siding with them. Sounds like a good reason to gather all his guns and go kill random, innocent Jews in a Synagogue? Yup, it's all Trump's fault. Then announce it on TV, and all the idiots in the world will believe it.

Your fellow Floridian Cesar Sayoc apparently liked Trump. Thus Trump has the exact same level of responsibility for those mail bombs as Bernie Sanders does for the actions of James T. Hodgkinson shooting up the Republican baseball team and almost killing Steve Scalise.

That would be ZERO.

[awareness]

These American Muslim's are acting so Christian. They're not inciting violence. They're showing love :

'We wish to respond to evil with good': Muslim Americans raise more than $150,000 for Pittsburgh synagogue shooting victims and their families

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-victims.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What's wrong with NATIONALISM? It's the same as patriotism.

My accusations were rude, vulgar and incendiary. Those points you can assume are things that are "wrong". I didn't say his nationalism was wrong. But in the extreme it is wrong. Again, nothing wrong with protecting the borders, but xenophobia in the extreme is bad.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I strongly protest the accusations of "strongly anti immigration, even perhaps xenophobic." In this regard Trump only reverberates the desires of Americans. I do think "protectionist" is a great thing, however. Except for Obama, show me one President in history who was not PROTECTIONIST? Xenophobism is a false accusation. Trump only demands immigration that is legal and does not threaten American citizens. Sounds to me like "Law and Order."

I did not accuse him of xenophobia, I said merely that it is a possibility given his attitude towards trade, borders, and our treaties.

Protectionism -- can be a very good strategy to get a better trade deal, if that is how he ultimately uses it then I applaud him. On the other hand protectionism as a policy is foolish, it shrinks the overall size of the pie, it hurts many economies including ours which leads to destabilization of regimes, wars, civil wars, revolutions, and all kinds of expenses that will dwarf the effects of a bad trade deal.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why is it that every politician, including Obama, Clintons', Schumer, etc. is on record supporting a southern wall and limits to immigration? Ten years ago even the Left would have been appalled at the thought of "Sanctuary" cities. My, how has America changed.

And how have you changed? Just because conservatives have resisted the daily onslaught of progressive ideology, gone crazy during the Obama era, does not mean we are guilty of any of the "-ISTS" and "-OBES" that we are accused of. It seems to me that you hate Trump because he fights back, as if being "presidential" means to be wimpy, and taken advantage of by the rest of the world, including the UN.

Once again the only "accusations" I made were vulgar, rude and incendiary. Those are three things that I dislike and which have not changed.

I am ambivalent towards his "wall". I have no issue with the President taking seriously his obligation to protect our borders. I am also simply a passenger watching as he renegotiates our treaties. If he does a better job I will give him credit, and I have no intention of being a backseat driver while he does that. If he wants to give the impression of being xenophobic to get a better deal, so be it. But there is a cost for the president to have the appearance of evil.

I don't think he is anti semitic. I am uncomfortable with his praise of dictators. But, I also agree that the media is making things much worse, and some of them are incredibly biased. Especially the comedians. The commentary has become very ugly. I don't agree with blaming Trump for that. You can't bloviate on the TV about how "unpresidential" he is if you are doing the same thing, even worse.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

My accusations were rude, vulgar and incendiary. Those points you can assume are things that are "wrong". I didn't say his nationalism was wrong. But in the extreme it is wrong. Again, nothing wrong with protecting the borders, but xenophobia in the extreme is bad.



I did not accuse him of xenophobia, I said merely that it is a possibility given his attitude towards trade, borders, and our treaties.

Protectionism -- can be a very good strategy to get a better trade deal, if that is how he ultimately uses it then I applaud him. On the other hand protectionism as a policy is foolish, it shrinks the overall size of the pie, it hurts many economies including ours which leads to destabilization of regimes, wars, civil wars, revolutions, and all kinds of expenses that will dwarf the effects of a bad trade deal.



Once again the only "accusations" I made were vulgar, rude and incendiary. Those are three things that I dislike and which have not changed.

I am ambivalent towards his "wall". I have no issue with the President taking seriously his obligation to protect our borders. I am also simply a passenger watching as he renegotiates our treaties. If he does a better job I will give him credit, and I have no intention of being a backseat driver while he does that. If he wants to give the impression of being xenophobic to get a better deal, so be it. But there is a cost for the president to have the appearance of evil.

I don't think he is anti semitic. I am uncomfortable with his praise of dictators. But, I also agree that the media is making things much worse, and some of them are incredibly biased. Especially the comedians. The commentary has become very ugly. I don't agree with blaming Trump for that. You can't bloviate on the TV about how "unpresidential" he is if you are doing the same thing, even worse.

Yes by all means stop the comedians!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

My accusations were rude, vulgar and incendiary. Those points you can assume are things that are "wrong". I didn't say his nationalism was wrong. But in the extreme it is wrong. Again, nothing wrong with protecting the borders, but xenophobia in the extreme is bad.

I agree with you that the media has been nothing but "rude, vulgar and incendiary" towards President Trump and his family.

Would you like a list of examples? I'll start with calling Ivanka a "feckless c**t, threatening to sodomize Baron, and sending white powder to Don Jr. hospitalizing his wife for 2 weeks. Vanessa was so traumatized she left the marriage and all public life.

Perhaps you don't think these are "rude, vulgar and incendiary?"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree with you that the media has been nothing but "rude, vulgar and incendiary" towards President Trump and his family.

But Trump isn't identifying just who among the fake news is the enemy of the people. If it's true, and Trump doesn't tell us just who our enemy is, isn't he then complicit with the enemy of the people?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But Trump isn't identifying just who among the fake news is the enemy of the people. If it's true, and Trump doesn't tell us just who our enemy is, isn't he then complicit with the enemy of the people?

So let me understand this. If Trump does not spell them out by name, as if we actually need that, then he is still guilty.

Yup, makes a lot of sense.

You have just given us a new standard for guilt.

[Ohio]

Here's the nuts and bolts about this crooked extremist Gillum:

Florida gubernatorial candidate and Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum served as the director of a radical youth training organization whose mission was to challenge U.S. “predatory capitalism,” abolish the prison system, fight a “spiritual resistance” battle against “Christian hegemony,” redefine the meaning of “borders” while aiding “undocumented” aliens, and enact the “collective liberation” of “communities of color” amid what it described as the scourge of “white supremacy.”

Gillum’s group accused the U.S. of being a “colonialist” power perpetrating “structural violence” and “continued genocide.” It claimed conservatives in the U.S. judicial system were “justifying white supremacist policing practices.” All of that extremist rhetoric and more was posted on the official “issues” sections of the organization’s website while Gillum not only served as its active director, but while his picture, position and bio were brandished on the same site on the “staff” page.

Gillum, Lettman-Hicks and Dream Defenders’ Agnew each are graduates of an Oakland, California-based training school for progressive revolutionaries that has spawned a list of activists who have gone on to become the who’s who of the far-left leadership world, with many taking senior positions at organizations financed by Soros.

In scores of cases, graduates of the Rockwood Leadership Institute founded or directed notorious Soros-financed activist groups, such as Black Lives Matter, Media Matters for America, MoveOn.org and the Tides Foundation, one of the nation’s largest funders of progressive groups. Soros’s own Open Society Foundations sent top staff to Rockwood for training. Notorious radicals Van Jones and Linda Sarsour are among the many famous names listed as alums.

Hey zeek, does he sound good for America? Sounds like the makings for Hitler's National Socialist Workers Party.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree with you that the media has been nothing but "rude, vulgar and incendiary" towards President Trump and his family.

Would you like a list of examples? I'll start with calling Ivanka a "feckless c**t, threatening to sodomize Baron, and sending white powder to Don Jr. hospitalizing his wife for 2 weeks. Vanessa was so traumatized she left the marriage and all public life.

Perhaps you don't think these are "rude, vulgar and incendiary?"

The person who said that would be characterized as a comedian. Like I said they have expressed the worst bias.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The person who said that would be characterized as a comedian. Like I said they have expressed the worst bias.

How can you justify spewing hate and vitriol in the name of comedy?

America is a country addicted to its laughter by so-called comedians. It used to be that late night ones like Leno, Letterman, Carson, Rivers, etc. were basically neutral. Today you would be hard pressed to find anything but hard left, obnoxious, R-rated, Trump hating comedians. Someone conservative like Tim Allen is hard pressed just to stay on TV.

When I refer to the "mainstream media," comedy is also included, and is regrettably a huge part of our culture.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How can you justify spewing hate and vitriol in the name of comedy?

America is a country addicted to its laughter by so-called comedians. It used to be that late night ones like Leno, Letterman, Carson, Rivers, etc. were basically neutral. Today you would be hard pressed to find anything but hard left, obnoxious, R-rated, Trump hating comedians. Someone conservative like Tim Allen is hard pressed just to stay on TV.

When I refer to the "mainstream media," comedy is also included, and is regrettably a huge part of our culture.

Where did I justify it?

Do you read what I say? You "strongly protest" the accusation of strongly anti immigration. Is that for real, how could anyone disagree that Trump is strongly anti immigration, his platform is the wall, shutting down the border, and numerous other comments that indicate a change in policy towards reducing and controlling immigration.

You say that xenophobic is a false accusation. I never accused Trump of this, only said it was a possibility.

You accuse me of hating Trump when there is nothing that I have said in over two years that could be used to support that.

And now in this post you accuse me of justifying these comedians. I haven't justified them, I have pointed out that their accusations of Trump being to blame for the ugly discourse is hypocritical and their own bias disqualifies anything they say to this end. I have said that their bias is demonstrated in the extreme. How is my saying they have exhibited the worst bias seen by you as justifying them?

I agree that it is getting very difficult to listen to anything these comedians do or say. I think it is because their audience is the young 20 something crowd. I used to like Jonathan Stewart, I thought he gave an insightful perspective on the news and loved his ability to pull up old footage and tapes exhibiting the hypocrisy of various leaders. His replacement, on the other hand, is terrible.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Where did I justify it?

To me, when someone passes hateful rhetoric off as comedy, it sounded like you were excusing it.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Do you read what I say? You "strongly protest" the accusation of strongly anti immigration. Is that for real, how could anyone disagree that Trump is strongly anti immigration, his platform is the wall, shutting down the border, and numerous other comments that indicate a change in policy towards reducing and controlling immigration.

I disagree. Millions of Americans would also disagree.

Trump has ALWAYS said that he is for LEGAL and SAFE immigration. That is obviously too difficult for the LEFT to understand. When ISIS fighters were disguised as Syrian et.al. refugees, Trump limited immigration from certain dangerous countries, ones previously marked out by the Obama admin. Have you seen the crime waves in England, Germany, France, and Sweden? But then the Left smears Trump as Anti-Muslim.

We have drugs, gangs, and illegals crossing our Southern border every day. Every aged politician is on record supporting a wall and restricted immigration. Trump comes along and decides to stop talking and start building. The Left, including posters here, once again smears him as a xenophobe, as anti-immigrant, as white supremacist, as racist, as hateful, as Fascist, etc.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You say that xenophobic is a false accusation. I never accused Trump of this, only said it was a possibility.

Forgive my semantics. I thought accusations of anti-immigrant were the same as that.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You accuse me of hating Trump when there is nothing that I have said in over two years that could be used to support that.

Sorry if I lumped you in with other haters. It's hard at times to distinguish constant condemnation from "hatred." I admit that your comments are more reserved than others.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

And now in this post you accuse me of justifying these comedians. I haven't justified them, I have pointed out that there accusations of Trump being to blame for the ugly discourse is hypocritical and their own bias disqualifies anything they say to this end. I have said that their bias is demonstrated in the extreme. How does my saying they have exhibited the worst bias seen by you as justifying them?

Thanks for nuancing your views.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump has ALWAYS said that he is for LEGAL and SAFE immigration. That is obviously too difficult for the LEFT to understand. When ISIS fighters were disguised as Syrian et.al. refugees, Trump limited immigration from certain dangerous countries, ones previously marked out by the Obama admin. Have you seen the crime waves in England, Germany, France, and Sweden? But then the Left smears Trump as Anti-Muslim.

We have drugs, gangs, and illegals crossing our Southern border every day. Every aged politician is on record supporting a wall and restricted immigration. Trump comes along and decides to stop talking and start building. The Left, including posters here, once again smears him as a xenophobe, as anti-immigrant, as white supremacist, as racist, as hateful, as Fascist, etc.

This is semantics. You don't like my simplification of "anti immigration" fine, but the reality is that his focus from the first day of his campaign has had immigration reform as a centerpiece. And by reform we are referring to shipping millions of "illegal" immigrants back to their country, building a wall, and even using presidential decrees to limit immigration.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Forgive my semantics. I thought accusations of anti-immigrant were the same as that.

I didn't say "anti immigrant" that is a misquote, I said "anti immigration".

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry if I lumped you in with other haters. It's hard at times to distinguish constant condemnation from "hatred." I admit that your comments are more reserved than others.

Thanks for nuancing your views.

You are confusing condemnation with observation. When I say he is rude that is an observation that cannot be denied, nor does the fact that there are other rude people change that. Likewise when I say he is vulgar, sure you can call it "locker room talk" and no doubt others like Kavanaugh have also done the same, but that doesn't make the observation less valid. Likewise when I say his remarks are incendiary. That is a fact. That is the secret to his success. He was able to use twitter to suck all the air out of all the other candidates.

No one gets elected president who isn't talented. Trump's vulgarity and rudeness are part of his talent at being incendiary. Obama was talented, Clinton was talented, even Bush was talented. They all had their talents, that doesn't in any way imply they were good leaders or that they were moral people. The question is to what end does he use his talents. We are told to not judge before the time. Too many have judged Trump before the time. It is too early to do that.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yo, OBW, just like John McCain, if you wanted some "love" in your life, you did the right thing -- just hate the Trump, and the Lefty's here will love you.

Oh, and do take some time and tell us about that terrible Ted Cruz.

Your response is expected (from someone — not necessarily you). Everything is black and white. There are the Conservatives and Liberals. Nothing in between. Polarization gone viral. Nobody can have any considerations to the left of the far right without being in Bernie Sander's pocket.

I had more to say, but I think that this sums up the problem with the Evangelical Christian love fest with Trump.

FEAR
Fear of:

Liberals
Foreigners
Other ethnicities
Gays
Abortionists

There is no consideration that the kingdom of the world is not (at this time) the kingdom of our God. But we are. And we should live like we are. We should "fear not." Fear not the sword, or the tax man. Or the civil allowance of "marriage" between two persons of the same sex.

We are not required to define marriage for purposes of the church on the basis of the civil/legal definition in vogue at the time.

But we are required to love them the same as we love ourselves. And the way so many Christians are railing against people not like themselves (other ethnicities, those in the caravan, from Middle-Eastern nations, LGBQ, etc.) it is clear that they either are failing at the call to love, or don't really think much of themselves.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Democrats never gave him the presumption of innocence. They demanded more than perfection.

The presumption of innocence technically does not apply to nomination confirmations. The question is not whether the person should or should not be jailed, or even just put on parole. It is whether he should be given a job — in this case a lifetime job on the Supreme Court.

If character matters for a president who can only give us grief for 8 years, then it should really matter for a SCOTUS judge. Too many questions could be enough. There is no bright line of "beyond a reasonable doubt," or even "more likely than not." It is not unreasonable to withhold confirmation just because there were too many unanswered (or inadequately answered) questions.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

The presumption of innocence technically does not apply to nomination confirmations. The question is not whether the person should or should not be jailed, or even just put on parole. It is whether he should be given a job — in this case a lifetime job on the Supreme Court.

If character matters for a president who can only give us grief for 8 years, then it should really matter for a SCOTUS judge. Too many questions could be enough. There is no bright line of "beyond a reasonable doubt," or even "more likely than not." It is not unreasonable to withhold confirmation just because there were too many unanswered (or inadequately answered) questions.

Are you kidding, or has TDS just gripped your sanity?

The presumption of innocence applies to every area of life! What if I started making accusations about you on this forum? What if I walk into a church and accuse the pastor? What if I walk into the police station and accuse the police? Or listen to one child tattle/fib about another? Only the naivest of people would believe such accusations without corroborative proof. No, my friend, the presumption of innocence is the bedrock of a free world.

I heard that some are coming forward with allegations against Muller. It seems like special prosecutors are also appointed for life. Where do you draw your "bright line" here.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

The presumption of innocence technically does not apply to nomination confirmations. The question is not whether the person should or should not be jailed, or even just put on parole. It is whether he should be given a job — in this case a lifetime job on the Supreme Court.

If character matters for a president who can only give us grief for 8 years, then it should really matter for a SCOTUS judge. Too many questions could be enough. There is no bright line of "beyond a reasonable doubt," or even "more likely than not." It is not unreasonable to withhold confirmation just because there were too many unanswered (or inadequately answered) questions.

I agree with this. However, I feel that this should not be a license to smear or falsely accuse, which is clearly what ultimately happened with Kavanaugh. If Feinstein had raised this concern in the closed session it could have all been answered and investigated without slandering. Instead we got some woman accusing him of being involved in a gang rape in the media. So he was unable to defend himself, it wasn't done in the hearing, lowering her risk of perjury, yet was clearly damaging to Kavanaugh and his family. Feinstein should be held accountable for this. Now if this woman is held accountable a Supreme court justice will have to take her to court for slander. That in turn creates a whole new media circus. Feinstein should be held accountable for creating this travesty.

It seems to me that public comments and concerns should be left to those that have been verified with 2 or more witnesses, FBI investigative conclusions, etc. and unverified charges should be limited to closed door sessions.

Just as we should be holding our elected officials and nominees to important positions to a higher standard than "reasonable doubt" we also should not be ignorant that there will be political forces that wish to defeat the nominee/ candidate by any means necessary. For example, this case with the women being bribed to accuse Mueller of sexual harassment:
Robert Mueller: Woman targeted by inept plot to bring down US special counsel reveals how it rapidly fell apart

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are you kidding, or has TDS just gripped your sanity?

The presumption of innocence applies to every area of life! What if I started making accusations about you on this forum? What if I walk into a church and accuse the pastor? What if I walk into the police station and accuse the police? Or listen to one child tattle/fib about another? Only the naivest of people would believe such accusations without corroborative proof. No, my friend, the presumption of innocence is the bedrock of a free world.

I heard that some are coming forward with allegations against Muller. It seems like special prosecutors are also appointed for life. Where do you draw your "bright line" here.

You don't know what you are talking about. The standard for a criminal trial is much higher than for a civil trial. This is why a policeman can be found "not guilty" of a crime and still lose a lawsuit for millions of dollars in civil court.

There are many pieces of evidence that can be excluded from a criminal trial, that is not true of a hearing.

What OBW said is true, the hearing is not about "the presumption of innocence" since this is not a criminal trial. No one has been accused of a crime, nor is the purpose to determine if someone is guilty of a crime. For example, with Kavanaugh no one was there to determine if he was guilty of sexual assault, the question before them was "is this a man we want as a Supreme court justice". There are many people who are "innocent" who I don't want as a Supreme court justice. Being "innocent" is not a qualification for the Supreme court (being guilty could be seen as a disqualification though).

Vote for Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court because he is presumed innocent of sexual assault!

Just doesn't work for me.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by OBW

The presumption of innocence technically does not apply to nomination confirmations. The question is not whether the person should or should not be jailed, or even just put on parole. It is whether he should be given a job — in this case a lifetime job on the Supreme Court.

If character matters for a president who can only give us grief for 8 years, then it should really matter for a SCOTUS judge. Too many questions could be enough. There is no bright line of "beyond a reasonable doubt," or even "more likely than not." It is not unreasonable to withhold confirmation just because there were too many unanswered (or inadequately answered) questions.

If you review this thread you'll see that Mister Ohio argues for and against the presumption of innocence depending on whether or not the principal advances his extreme right-wing position in a particular context. So he argued for the presumption of innocence in the case of Kavanaugh and argues against it in the case of Andrew Gillum. I agree with you that it is a legal right that applies to the accused in a criminal trial. Neither Kavanaugh nor Gilliam have been charged with criminal offenses so the presumption of innocence is irrelevant to their situations at this time. When Mr Ohio misapplies the principal he is just parroting his idol Donald Trump. You will recall that that kind of mimicry was encouraged in the local church where the idol was Witness Lee. Habits learned by the herd die hard.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You don't know what you are talking about. The standard for a criminal trial is much higher than for a civil trial. This is why a policeman can be found "not guilty" of a crime and still lose a lawsuit for millions of dollars in civil court.

There are many pieces of evidence that can be excluded from a criminal trial, that is not true of a hearing.

What OBW said is true, the hearing is not about "the presumption of innocence" since this is not a criminal trial. No one has been accused of a crime, nor is the purpose to determine if someone is guilty of a crime. For example, with Kavanaugh no one was there to determine if he was guilty of sexual assault, the question before them was "is this a man we want as a Supreme court justice". There are many people who are "innocent" who I don't want as a Supreme court justice. Being "innocent" is not a qualification for the Supreme court (being guilty could be seen as a disqualification though).

Vote for Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court because he is presumed innocent of sexual assault!

Just doesn't work for me.

I never said this. You don't know what you are talking about. That is pure BS!

Actually your last post enumerated most of my position -- Make the accuser liable, handle accusations privately, require two witnesses, etc.

None of this was done. Just a political hit job, as Clarence Thomas said "a high tech lynching."

Lousy-Ford was not a credible witness, rather a serial liar. She even lied about taking airplane flights. She was so stupid that she had no idea how easily this could be checked. She lied about why she was in counseling, she had two front doors installed long before then.

Democrats on the Senate Committee knew she was a false witness, so they desperately looked for other "victims." Sleazy porn lawyer Avenatti to the rescue! And since useful idiots abound in the Democratic Party, surely they will all believe that Miss Swetnick went back ten times to watch Kavanaugh drug and rape high school girls. Thank God some brave soul finally came forward to expose Kavanaugh!

Here is the real situation. Kavanaugh went thru six (then seven) extensive FBI background checks. They found nothing of the sort. ZNP, zeek, and OBW conveniently leave this out. Kavanaugh had a stellar reputation for decades. Every one who knows him is willing to vouch for his integrity. Every person named by Lousy-Ford as a witness had no recollection of her story. No second witness. Caught lying on numerous occasions. No corroborative evidence. No I don't believe her. Kavanaugh maintains the presumption of innocence until evidence him accountable.

Read the book of Job. Read the book in light of the Kavanaugh hearings. Job was accused of sin, hidden sin, by his close friends and that's supposedly why he was under judgment. Read his responses. Not so pretty at times. An innocent man wrongly accused. An innocent man crying out for justice. In the end an innocent man vindicated by God.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You don't know what you are talking about. The standard for a criminal trial is much higher than for a civil trial. This is why a policeman can be found "not guilty" of a crime and still lose a lawsuit for millions of dollars in civil court.

Regardless of the standard required for "burden of proof," there is still a standard. Whether criminal or civil court, the accused is still innocent until proven guilty.

Kavanaugh was not entitled to a criminal or civil trial to prove his innocence. No one has demanded that. That is classic straw man defense. His judge, his defense and prosecution attorneys, and his jury was the US Senate, operating under their constitutional duty to advise and consent. The Senate has already made the rules for how nominees will be handled in their Court. Feinstein broke those rules and should be disciplined.

Once society removes the presumption of innocence, we have totalitarian anarchy. If every accusation is to be believed without facts, witnesses, or evidence, what a sad day that will be in America. Communist dictators behaved this way and millions died. How unfortunate that none of the other posters here is able to understand this. What happened to you all?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

If you review this thread you'll see that Mister Ohio argues for and against the presumption of innocence depending on whether or not the principal advances his extreme right-wing position in a particular context. So he argued for the presumption of innocence in the case of Kavanaugh and argues against it in the case of Andrew Gillum. I agree with you that it is a legal right that applies to the accused in a criminal trial. Neither Kavanaugh nor Gilliam have been charged with criminal offenses so the presumption of innocence is irrelevant to their situations at this time.

This is not true. And you know it. Once again you post deceit.

Gillum is innocent until evidence is presented. If some jerk or political hack comes forward asserting accusations of corruption, without any evidence, then throw the jerk out. If some unknown woman comes forward with 36 year old accusations of abuse, yet no corroborating evidence, then throw her out.

Gillum is a public servant, elected to office by the city of Tallahassee, and should be protected from specious, frivolous claims. Neither should he ever be the victim of slander.

But! It was an undercover FBI agent who was paid off posing as a developer. Gillum used the power of the purse to line his own pockets. But if the charges by the FBI Agent are false, then Gillum can easily prove it. Why did he not do so? He has numerous office staff who could vouch for his whereabouts on the day of the Hamilton show, and staff that could prove actual payment. Why did he not do so.

Why can't zeek know the difference? Because zeek is shipwrecked. He has not held onto faith or a good conscience. (I Tim 1.19) Perhaps Gillum is his idol. "Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (I John 5.20)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Just as we should be holding our elected officials and nominees to important positions to a higher standard than "reasonable doubt" we also should not be ignorant that there will be political forces that wish to defeat the nominee/ candidate by any means necessary. For example, this case with the women being bribed to accuse Mueller of sexual harassment:
Robert Mueller: Woman targeted by inept plot to bring down US special counsel reveals how it rapidly fell apart

I find it highly partisan that you would be suspicion of "political forces" wishing to undermine Special Prosecutor Muller, but not also suspicious of "political forces" wishing to undermine Kavanaugh, or for that matter, why are you not also suspicious of "political forces" wishing to undermine Trump?

Double standards? Hypocrisy? Political bias?

Or have you carefully weighed all the available facts?

[zeek]

Donald J. Trump
‏
Verified account

@realDonaldTrump
3h3 hours ago
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Paul Ryan should be focusing on holding the Majority rather than giving his opinions on Birthright Citizenship, something he knows nothing about! Our new Republican Majority will work on this, Closing the Immigration Loopholes and Securing our Border!

Yeah Paul Ryan! I'm just stoking my political base with lies to get them fired up for the mid term election. If your going to be a fuddy duddy and stick to the truth, you need shut up and get out of my way! Bahahaha

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here is the real situation. Kavanaugh went thru six (then seven) extensive FBI background checks. They found nothing of the sort. ZNP, zeek, and OBW conveniently leave this out. Kavanaugh had a stellar reputation for decades. Every one who knows him is willing to vouch for his integrity. Every person named by Lousy-Ford as a witness had no recollection of her story. No second witness. Caught lying on numerous occasions. No corroborative evidence. No I don't believe her. Kavanaugh maintains the presumption of innocence until evidence him accountable.

Read the book of Job. Read the book in light of the Kavanaugh hearings. Job was accused of sin, hidden sin, by his close friends and that's supposedly why he was under judgment. Read his responses. Not so pretty at times. An innocent man wrongly accused. An innocent man crying out for justice. In the end an innocent man vindicated by God.

Oh please. I agree that Feinstein's behavior was reprehensible, and that the Democrats bloviating during the hearing was all for political theater and I agree that many of the pundits and comedians have behaved despicably.

That said I do not agree that Kavanaugh should be sainted. He was a teenage basketball player who liked beer and parties. He might have done things that he is now ashamed of. I don't have an issue with Ford. I feel that she was right to send a letter with this complaint if it were true. She was forced to go public because of Feinstein's reprehensible behavior. If this had been handled properly, behind closed doors, it would have been better for everyone involved.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Regardless of the standard required for "burden of proof," there is still a standard. Whether criminal or civil court, the accused is still innocent until proven guilty.

Kavanaugh was not entitled to a criminal or civil trial to prove his innocence. No one has demanded that. That is classic straw man defense. His judge, his defense and prosecution attorneys, and his jury was the US Senate, operating under their constitutional duty to advise and consent. The Senate has already made the rules for how nominees will be handled in their Court. Feinstein broke those rules and should be disciplined.

Once society removes the presumption of innocence, we have totalitarian anarchy. If every accusation is to be believed without facts, witnesses, or evidence, what a sad day that will be in America. Communist dictators behaved this way and millions died. How unfortunate that none of the other posters here is able to understand this. What happened to you all?

Look if this had been done behind closed doors they would have politely listened to Ford and then confirmed Kavanaugh. Feinstein knew this, so she went public. She did this despite Ford wanting to remain anonymous (closed door hearing) and she did this at the 11th hour is a transparent attempt to delay the confirmation. All of your complaints about how unrighteous this was to Kavanaugh are because of what Feinstein did, not what Ford did.

Once again, the issue was never guilt or innocence, but will you vote to confirm him.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is not true. And you know it. Once again you post deceit.

Gillum is innocent until evidence is presented. If some jerk or political hack comes forward asserting accusations of corruption, without any evidence, then throw the jerk out. If some unknown woman comes forward with 36 year old accusations of abuse, yet no corroborating evidence, then throw her out.

Gillum is a public servant, elected to office by the city of Tallahassee, and should be protected from specious, frivolous claims. Neither should he ever be the victim of slander.

But! It was an undercover FBI agent who was paid off posing as a developer. Gillum used the power of the purse to line his own pockets. But if the charges by the FBI Agent are false, then Gillum can easily prove it. Why did he not do so? He has numerous office staff who could vouch for his whereabouts on the day of the Hamilton show, and staff that could prove actual payment. Why did he not do so.

Why can't zeek know the difference? Because zeek is shipwrecked. He has not held onto faith or a good conscience. (I Tim 1.19) Perhaps Gillum is his idol. "Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (I John 5.20)

There is no doubt that the evidence against Gillum based on this witness is much stronger than the evidence against Kavanaugh. No DA would investigate based on Ford's allegations, it would be a joke, likewise the FBI wasn't going to initiate an investigation unless ordered to do so. The fact that the FBI is investigating indicates they have a stronger basis than anything Ford presented. That said, until Gillum is convicted he also deserves the presumption of innocence. On the other hand if Trump's accusations that he is a thief sways some voters, well that is fair.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I find it highly partisan that you would be suspicion of "political forces" wishing to undermine Special Prosecutor Muller, but not also suspicious of "political forces" wishing to undermine Kavanaugh, or for that matter, why are you not also suspicious of "political forces" wishing to undermine Trump?

Double standards? Hypocrisy? Political bias?

Or have you carefully weighed all the available facts?

Why would I be suspicious, it was obvious. I have repeatedly said that Feinstein's behavior was reprehensible. No need for a conspiracy theory, we have proof of political forces attempting to undermine Kavanaugh's confirmation.

As for Trump you obviously have not read my posts. I said a long, long time ago that I work in Brooklyn. Obama is almost considered a saint here. You should have seen the shock and disbelief on the faces when he was attacked. It was as though they thought the attacks on Bush and Clinton were simply due to them being evil white men, but had no idea that a saint would suffer the same attacks. If you want to be president but then are shocked to learn that you will be attacked, criticized, critiqued, and challenged at every turn then you have no business being president. You are too naive for this game. It is like a heavyweight prize fighter being shocked that his opponent would punch him.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Oh please. I agree that Feinstein's behavior was reprehensible, and that the Democrats bloviating during the hearing was all for political theater and I agree that many of the pundits and comedians have behaved despicably.

That said I do not agree that Kavanaugh should be sainted. He was a teenage basketball player who liked beer and parties. He might have done things that he is now ashamed of. I don't have an issue with Ford. I feel that she was right to send a letter with this complaint if it were true. She was forced to go public because of Feinstein's reprehensible behavior. If this had been handled properly, behind closed doors, it would have been better for everyone involved.

Agreed. Sainthood?


The man has lived an exemplary life. He would qualify for elder or deacon using Bible criteria, and that's more than I can say for most.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Look if this had been done behind closed doors they would have politely listened to Ford and then confirmed Kavanaugh. Feinstein knew this, so she went public. She did this despite Ford wanting to remain anonymous (closed door hearing) and she did this at the 11th hour is a transparent attempt to delay the confirmation. All of your complaints about how unrighteous this was to Kavanaugh are because of what Feinstein did, not what Ford did.

Once again, the issue was never guilt or innocence, but will you vote to confirm him.

You are still too sympathetic to Ford. You should examine her testimony and her history more closely. Check out the activist college she taught at. She was a con. Calling her a victim is too nice.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There is no doubt that the evidence against Gillum based on this witness is much stronger than the evidence against Kavanaugh. No DA would investigate based on Ford's allegations, it would be a joke, likewise the FBI wasn't going to initiate an investigation unless ordered to do so. The fact that the FBI is investigating indicates they have a stronger basis than anything Ford presented. That said, until Gillum is convicted he also deserves the presumption of innocence. On the other hand if Trump's accusations that he is a thief sways some voters, well that is fair.

I don't agree with Gillum's politics but neither do I like the FBI baiting him in a sting operation. I hate this kind of thing. If this is all the FBI has, then it almost looks like they were setting him up. Why was an undercover agent posing as a developer? This is a far cry from normal undercover operations buying drugs from dealers. I'd hate to see anyone convicted for this.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why would I be suspicious, it was obvious. I have repeatedly said that Feinstein's behavior was reprehensible. No need for a conspiracy theory, we have proof of political forces attempting to undermine Kavanaugh's confirmation.

As for Trump you obviously have not read my posts. I said a long, long time ago that I work in Brooklyn. Obama is almost considered a saint here. You should have seen the shock and disbelief on the faces when he was attacked. It was as though they thought the attacks on Bush and Clinton were simply due to them being evil white men, but had no idea that a saint would suffer the same attacks. If you want to be president but then are shocked to learn that you will be attacked, criticized, critiqued, and challenged at every turn then you have no business being president. You are too naive for this game. It is like a heavyweight prize fighter being shocked that his opponent would punch him.

When was Obama attacked?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You are still too sympathetic to Ford. You should examine her testimony and her history more closely. Check out the activist college she taught at. She was a con. Calling her a victim is too nice.

Activist is typical response to an experience like the one she described. I see no reason to check it out any more than the FBI did. If there is no evidence to go on other than he said / she said I found her testimony more credible than his denial. But without anything more to go on I see no reason to care anymore.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When was Obama attacked?

If I wasn't living in Brooklyn I wouldn't have the faintest idea. But any comment that was anything less than "glory hallelujah" they took as a vile attack. Kind of like you with any comment I make about Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If I wasn't living in Brooklyn I wouldn't have the faintest idea. But any comment that was anything less than "glory hallelujah" they took as a vile attack. Kind of like you with any comment I make about Trump.

That's crazy.

I only comment on the unfair smear campaigns. Check the posts. Lots of stuff I ignore. Believe it or not, I am just trying to educate you on how the rest of America feels.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's crazy.

So then, we agree.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then, we agree.

Shall I say "glory hallelujah"?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Shall I say "glory hallelujah"?

Of course, we have just shown the error in Zeek accusing you of "extreme right wing opinions".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Of course, we have just shown the error in Zeek accusing you of "extreme right wing opinions".

I'm sure zeek will see it as confirmation of the same.

[OBW]

I agree with this. However, I feel that this should not be a license to smear or falsely accuse, which is clearly what ultimately happened with Kavanaugh.

First, not picking on ZNP here. Just using this one comment to discuss. I see that he is in agreement on part of the following.

I agree that it should be a matter of finding the truth, not making false accusations.

But there is nothing clear about the accusations — true or false. And they are too old to be verified as true or false. So, as much as I believe that Kavenaugh would have the integrity to rule in a truly constitutional manner, I understand that there is enough of a cloud in some people's minds to justify withholding of support. And while we could not convict him (and not suggesting that he could be convicted if there actually was all of the evidence available), to raise to the level of one of the 9 justices of SCOTUS is understandably troubling for some.

And don't forget that failure to convict is different from truly innocent. There was a time when you could legally shoot someone in your yard once they were warned-off and there was any kind of threat perceived. But the legality of it does not leave everyone who shot someone under those conditions OK to serve on the Supreme Court (assuming other qualifications are met). You might never get a conviction. But if BK was considered to have character (at least at some point in his life) that made his guilt questionable, then for this purpose (SCOTUS) it is not unreasonable to withhold approval.

I note that some may argue that he was no longer that foolish kid of decades ago. And I would agree as long as I could verify an actual change in nature. But that does not deny others the right to consider it unacceptable even today.

As for your rant on Sen. Feinstein, I am not unsympathetic to the idea that she was out trying to dig up anything she could. But that does not mean that what she dug up is definitionally tainted. You can't color the veracity of what she found (or claims to have found) solely on the basis of the fact that she wanted to find it and had no desire to find anything to contradict it.

So we are left with mud. And mud slinging. But it is not clear that the mud was not at all warranted. Therefore a different nominee might have been the better course of action. And it might have been better for all involved (including BF and Ford) if the fact of the allegations was brought up privately and the opportunity to decide to bow out was granted without the need for public scrutiny over uncertain allegations.

You seem to want the U.S. government to operate at the standard of a board of elders of the most upright Christian assembly you could find. It isn't going to happen. It is a kingdom of ordinary people with ordinary frailties. And many do not hold to even the pretense of the Christian faith you or I do. Nor the social underpinning of the morality of that faith. Add to that the increasing polarization of the nation, and it is expected that things would go as they did. The Republicans simply refused to even consider back in 2016.

Don't forget that there are many good, upstanding Christians (even evangelical Christians) that voted for Clinton and didn't want Kavenaugh on the Supreme Court.

The ongoing actions and rhetoric of the one who put forward this nomination are such that there should be no expectation that the opposition would not push back with the same kind of vitriol — possibly even the kind of lies — that Trump engages in daily. Having been nominated by Trump would taint even the most qualified candidate (in everyone's mind) just because of the association. I know it's not fair. But then, what is?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

TI only comment on the unfair smear campaigns.

I'm beginning to conclude that the only smear campaign is being orchestrated by Trump. It is time to play "Apprentice" with him and declare "you're fired." One term. No more. Maybe less, though I don't see that happening just yet.

And I am a Republican, though the party has been running rapidly into a pit where I cannot follow.

[OBW]

The man has lived an exemplary life.

The "mostly" was left out. His life does include the drinking and partying, along with the rather sexist behavior that some of his HS and college friends recalled. Excusable after enough years of otherwise exemplary life? For me, probably. For others, that is their call.

And whether or not Feinstein followed the Senate's rules is still irrelevant in whether the charges were true or false, or should have been considered by anyone as a measure of qualification for a lifetime job on the highest court in the land. (Unless, of course, there is evidence of complicity on her part to conspire to push forward charges that were known to be false.) Don't forget that the "rules" are not determiners of truth, just of procedure. And sometimes rules reflect the desire of those who have the position to make the rules to keep their thumb on those who do not.

I am no fan of Feinstein or any of the recent Democrat leaders in the House or Senate. But I cannot presume that her actions reflected anything more than a desire to ensure that what she found as relevant information made an impact rather than just got buried in back-room strong-arming. It works both ways. If the Republicans do things I like it is "righteous," but when the Democrats do what I don't, it is despicable or illegal, then why do we find it so hard to understand those who see it the other way around? Do we presume that they are not working for the US? That they are enemies of the people and not patriots?

Have we been listening to Limbaugh, Beck, Savage — and even Trump — a little too much?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by zeek

If you review this thread you'll see that Mister Ohio argues for and against the presumption of innocence depending on whether or not the principal advances his extreme right-wing position in a particular context. So he argued for the presumption of innocence in the case of Kavanaugh and argues against it in the case of Andrew Gillum. I agree with you that it is a legal right that applies to the accused in a criminal trial. Neither Kavanaugh nor Gilliam have been charged with criminal offenses so the presumption of innocence is irrelevant to their situations at this time. When Mr Ohio misapplies the principal he is just parroting his idol Donald Trump. You will recall that that kind of mimicry was encouraged in the local church where the idol was Witness Lee. Habits learned by the herd die hard.

Probably best not to try to define the source of any of our positions.

I am a third generation Republican (don't have enough information to look beyond that). My Grandfather despised Roosevelt. I remember vaguely that my parents voted for Nixon in '60. But I learned something when I got home from school (in the Oak Cliff part of Dallas) somewhat joyfully declaring that Kennedy had been shot only to learn from my dad that it was not a good thing, and not something to be gleeful about.

Many years later I heard my dad referring to Bush (Sr) as being too liberal. (I have since learned that in his two terms as Congressman from Houston, he voted with Johnson (first term) as much as he did with Nixon (second term).) And several years after when I was listening to Limbaugh as he declared "America Held Hostage" during '93 and '94, I started moving down the rails with them.

But by the time McCain was nominated in 2008, the idea of Palin as VP was not good. McCain later expressed regret on that choice, preferring to have chosen Joe Lieberman. I was not quite there in 2008 (but would have voted for it). But I am now. I am probably a centrist that leans conservative. And since there is no such thing as a conservative Democrat anymore, that means Republican. But that armor has chinked.

It used to be that there was polar rhetoric in elections, but compromise and diligence to do the hard work of legislating. Now the rhetoric never stops and the poles too often are magnets that refuse anything that the ruling party does not want or cannot stop. The last vestiges of those "liberal" Republicans and "conservative" Democrats — like Bush, McCain, Lieberman, etc., are all but gone. (Sounds like something from Star Wars referring to the Republic's Senate in "A New Hope.") It is almost entirely at the poles now.

Voted yesterday. Couldn't vote for anyone who self-declared as Tea Party. So no Ted Cruz. No Kenny Marchant. Still voted for Abbott (governor). I am not "on board" with Beto, but I see someone with the sense to try to find common ground to get things done rather than just die for the party line. It is the sense that he cares about people at least as much as party or ideology that convinced me.

If this was 2020, I would not have voted for Trump. If he remained on the ballot, I would have voted for someone else, or done a write-in (like I did in 2016).

The base meaning of conservatism is the desire to not change. And even if I don't like all the proposals for change out there, not changing is not really an option. Change is a necessity.

And I have changed. About church. About politics. About my neighbor (literal and metaphorical). I live in the world, but also in a different kingdom. But we were left in this world to be salt and light and to love our neighbors as ourselves. In this world, I find that the poles of politics are hard to justify while claiming to love my neighbor as myself. And aligning myself with Trump is one of the most polar things I could possibly do. So I don't. And won't.

[Ohio]

Poll: Americans ‘Overwhelmingly’ Believe Obama ‘Improperly Surveilled’ Trump Campaign

Despite the disgraced American media’s best and most cynical efforts to bury the truth, and to even stop the truth from ever seeing the light of day, this poll (and another addressed below) demonstrate that the American people are almost entirely tuning the partisan, mostly-hysterical news media out and looking to alternative media for the truth.

There is simply no other way to explain these poll results, which unambiguously prove that a majority of the public believe the exact opposite of what an unceasing, coordinated media campaign wants them to believe — which is that President Trump colluded with the Russians to win the 2016 campaign and that the heroic FBI is being unfairly smeared by Trump’s eeeevil defenders.

Imagine that! Just what I have been saying for two years!

I doubt if any of the other posters here will admit it though!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

And whether or not Feinstein followed the Senate's rules is still irrelevant in whether the charges were true or false, or should have been considered by anyone as a measure of qualification for a lifetime job on the highest court in the land. (Unless, of course, there is evidence of complicity on her part to conspire to push forward charges that were known to be false.) Don't forget that the "rules" are not determiners of truth, just of procedure. And sometimes rules reflect the desire of those who have the position to make the rules to keep their thumb on those who do not.

I am no fan of Feinstein or any of the recent Democrat leaders in the House or Senate. But I cannot presume that her actions reflected anything more than a desire to ensure that what she found as relevant information made an impact rather than just got buried in back-room strong-arming. It works both ways. If the Republicans do things I like it is "righteous," but when the Democrats do what I don't, it is despicable or illegal, then why do we find it so hard to understand those who see it the other way around? Do we presume that they are not working for the US? That they are enemies of the people and not patriots?

I completely disagree. Making Ford's letter pubic was a disservice to Ford and to Kavanaugh. Feinstein had the information for months and sat on it. She could have raised the issue in the closed door sessions, she could have appealed for an FBI investigation then. She could have asked for Ford to come and testify in a closed door session. She could have asked Kavanaugh for his response. In short everything that she ultimately did do she could have done in a closed door session. If the hearing is going to hear any and all accusations regardless of merit and since we know many of those will have a political axe to grind it is prudent to perform this in a closed door session. Now if she felt she had been strong armed and the Republicans had not acted in a responsible way then she still could go public as she did. Since that is her option you would expect the Republicans would act responsibly. You are talking about an allegation that is 36 years old, he said/she said, and about a teenager who is not fully matured. There was no corroborating witness, and there was no subsequent behavior consistent with a sexual abuser. No DA would have ever taken this. Finally, Ford had asked that this be kept confidential -- i.e. closed door. Feinstein's actions were reprehensible and she should be held accountable.

Finally, there was always the possibility that Kavanaugh would be confirmed and become a Supreme court justice. Therefore her behavior has damaged the Supreme court. Hence it was irresponsible.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

But there is nothing clear about the accusations — true or false. And they are too old to be verified as true or false. So, as much as I believe that Kavanaugh would have the integrity to rule in a truly constitutional manner, I understand that there is enough of a cloud in some people's minds to justify withholding of support. And while we could not convict him (and not suggesting that he could be convicted if there actually was all of the evidence available), to raise to the level of one of the 9 justices of SCOTUS is understandably troubling for some.

I could not disagree more. Perhaps a little more study would persuade you too. The more I read about Ford, the more it becomes clear that either she perpetrated a fraud scheme, or she merely went along with it.

Her many lies under oath made this abundantly clear. Initially I was just skeptical of her claims. OK ... let's hear your story. OK ... others were there, let's hear them too. OK ... you need more time because you don't fly? Wait a minute folks! Someone's lying here! Fool us twice, shame on us! Fool us three times, four times, ... ?

For the American people to accept these types of accusations on face value alone is extremely dangerous. The LEFT thus possesses the ultimate political weapon of all time! No conservative candidate, judicial nominee, cabinet appointee, or even my grocery store butcher is thus safe from being victimized. This ultimate weapon can be used to destroy anyone you don't like. Boss turned you down for a raise? Pull out the secret weapon!

Didn't Clarence Thomas say that he would have preferred a noose for his own lynching? Thomas was neither the first or the last to be victimized in this way. (I'm sure someone has put together a list of other victims too.)

Your point seems to be that certain folks would be "troubled" by these accusations, thus "support" for ones like Kavenaugh should be "withheld." Let me remind you that the entire Senate Judicial Committee of the US Senate came out against Trump's selection even before he named Kavanaugh.

I don't know what happened to you OBW, but you seemed to have lost your spine. To do as you suggest, not only borders on insanity, but would end our Constitutional Republic. The Left's orchestrated attack on Kavanaugh was not merely some Feinstein misstep. The best and brightest Progressive legal and political minds in WashDC planned this out. What the Left has never been able to accomplish in Congress, i.e. abortion, gay marriage, affirmative action, for example, they have always relied on the Courts for.

Their next hit job will be even better. I'm sure they are preparing for it even now. If the Senate becomes even stronger Republican, what will the Left do if RBG "gives up the ghost?" They better get their blackmail schemes in order! Perhaps Project Veritas is looking into this as we speak.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

The ongoing actions and rhetoric of the one who put forward this nomination are such that there should be no expectation that the opposition would not push back with the same kind of vitriol — possibly even the kind of lies — that Trump engages in daily. Having been nominated by Trump would taint even the most qualified candidate (in everyone's mind) just because of the association. I know it's not fair. But then, what is?

I have to be consistent and push back here.

Lies? Vitriol? Trump was framed by the highest levels of our intelligence (Brennan, McCabe, Yates, Comey, Page, Strzok, etc.) Then he pushes back with the same fervency as Kavanaugh -- and what do you do? Condemn them both for over-reacting. The media blistered Trump mercilessly -- provoked him really -- 24/7 for two years, in an attempt to discredit his Presidential election. Russia, Russia, Russia! is all we heard, and now they are quietly trying to make us forget about that. Then endless porn stars were paraded across the stage.

Yeah OBW, "good" Christians liked Clinton too, willing to forget his affairs, consensual or not, bless their heart. Lots of good Christians like Obama too. But it just amazes me just how much Christian "love" is tied to media perceptions of "love." Sounds like the broad way that leads to destruction.

What actually happened on that "Stormy" day we will never know. Obviously she was paid off by Atty. Cohen. Whether it was something all CEO's face, or an actual affair, we will never know. It does appear, however, like justice is beginning to bite Stormy and Avenatti. Little ironic?

Reminds me of how both Bush #41 and #43 were silent on Obama, and then came forward to condemned Trump. They followed the media and violated their own principles -- not to condemn the successive President. Right after that we heard reports of #41 groping the nurses. Not just once but 5 times. Little ironic?

I agree Trump is brash to his opponents. It's a tool at his disposal. Even Beto used his nickname against Cruz. Trump is not the mild-mannered Bush we elected last time. Trump is a fighter, whether I agree with the details or not, I and lots of Americans like me, are looking at the bigger picture and think he is fighting for the right things.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

The "mostly" was left out. His life does include the drinking and partying, along with the rather sexist behavior that some of his HS and college friends recalled. Excusable after enough years of otherwise exemplary life? For me, probably. For others, that is their call.

Those who accused him were apparently just alive in the same state in the same decade. None of BK's friends said his partying crossed the line. I'm not buying the line that all basketball stars are sex-crazed abusers. Look at LaBron James. He has always been an example of decent behavior. Some may be bad, but there is no evidence Kavanaugh did anything like he was accused of. Methinks you are watching the wrong news outlet!

[OBW]

I completely disagree. Making Ford's letter pubic was a disservice . . . .

Yes. The mode of releasing the information was a grandstand of the worst kind. But you mistake mode of release for veracity, or lack thereof.

All of the claims of lies you make are without merit. You didn’t like how it played out so she was lying. She didn’t want to come forward so her reluctance proves lying. She doesn’t like to fly, so the delays are evidence of lying. She didn’t make any charge at the time, so she is lying. What a load of manure.

No DA would have ever taken this.

Not now. There is a statute of limitations. You have absolutely no idea about what might have happened then. If it were brought forward at the time, you might never have heard of Brett Kavanaugh. And you may be right that it would never have been filed. But as so often happens in those kinds of cases, the woman is embarrassed that she allowed herself into the situation. She blames herself. And so on. So never files the charge. Never speaks of it to anyone, so no contemporaneous knowledge by anyone else.

Yes, that is a minefield for false accusations later. But it is interesting how many such false accusations are quickly discovered to clearly be false. Not all, but many. Yet this is one of those that only opinions concerning whether current factors are evidence of lying are actually available. They could only assert that BK did not appear to be lying. Probably enough to say that it is not worthy of further consideration (to me). But not sufficient to question whether the circumstances surrounding the environment in which the charges could reasonably be considered possible might themselves disqualify.

I mean, it is not like there are no other highly qualified people to put on SCOTUS. Just move on. But no. It was going to be BK or else. And despite it all, that is what we got. Probably be a good judge. I will just roflmao if he is part of the SCOTUS majority that rules that his executive order to deny citizenship based solely on place of birth is unconstitutional.

Imagine that! Just what I have been saying for two years!

You take a poll of the American people as evidence of the truth? Surely you don’t accept the opinion of others as the truth. Or do you?

“Clinton is now leading Trump in the polls.” Well I guess that means I should vote for Hillary!

They shouldn’t allow the use of polls for much of anything. It does not prove truth. It does not provide reasons to vote one way or the other. It just shows where the lead cow is moving so that we can get a mouthful of cud and blindly follow along. MOOOOOOOOOOO!

For the American people to accept these types of accusations on face value alone is extremely dangerous.

But to accept everything that Trump says at face value is not? Like declaring the caravan to be murders, rapists, and illegal immigrants. There is no evidence for the first two, and at this point there are no illegal immigrants among them. They have not entered the US at all, therefore are neither immigrants nor illegal. They have been poled by reporters (from both sides, I believe) and all say that they are coming to American to seek asylum. If they do that, they are not illegal unless (und until) their request is denied and they stay in country anyway without being allowed to under other provisions. Asking for asylum is not illegal.

And for all the troops stationed at the border, the law requires that anyone who arrives at a point of entry that requests asylum be allowed to make that request. And until the courts (not a presidential edict) says their request is denied, they are not illegal, therefore, no basis for any action by the military. Maybe we can (and should) keep them somewhat contained near the border so that they can be around when their hearing actually occurs and can then be sent out if denied. But otherwise the show of force along the border is just window dressing for the loyal Trump supporters.

You made some snarky comment about me not having any spine. Your answer is to just make stuff up and build a wall. My response is to enforce existing laws, and work on better ones. Trump blames the Democrats for a lack of improved immigration laws. But the Republicans have controlled the entire process for most of two years and can’t do it. They have abdicated and need to legally work with what we have, not just declare a limited form of martial law and ignore it. The spineless are those who just blame everyone else for the problems while doing nothing constructive themselves. At this point in time, that is the Republican party. They have absolute control and can’t get their thumbs out of their backsides. And I am embarrassed to admit that I am still somewhat labeled by their name.

To do as you suggest, not only borders on insanity, but would end our Constitutional Republic.

No. It would only end the banana republic of Trump. This republic is greater than a fight over who is qualified for SCOTUS. Just not being chargeable for a felony is not sufficient. Even being a fine upstanding citizen for years is not. If I assume that you have been just such upstanding citizen (and I have no reason to think otherwise) I still would not likely think you qualified for the Supreme Court. At the same time, just because you got through law school and even got a seat on an important Federal court bench does not make you the best choice. While it might be enough to say that there is no evidence in your rulings that you have a leaning toward positions that are inconsistent with the Constitution, it might also be relevant to consider the kind of depth with which you researched and wrote when you ruled and how fully you considered all factors. There is a lot to it. Just being someone that anyone wants to be on the court that has had a significant judgeship previously and lived a good life is not necessarily sufficient. So if it is hard to make a decision, then a weak charge against someone who was more than once drunk when under age for drinking, and was later described by someone who appears to have had basis for opining, that he was a “mean drunk” could be relevant. Not chargeable. But relevant. And all your personal bases for determining the charges to be false do nor rise to the level of proof, therefore not sufficient to rail upon anyone for giving them at least some weight.

You are correct that the proper way to dispose of it would have been quietly, behind closed doors. At that point it would have been easier to just declare that it wasn’t worth the trouble and withdraw from consideration. No actual harm to reputation. But Feinstein made the charge public rather than behind closed doors. That was poor in terms of going against the wishes of the one who made the charge known to her. And it is against in-house rules in terms of the Senate. None of them are prosecutable. Even if she should be censured in some form, it does not detract from the veracity of at least part of what came forward, and does not make any of it incorrect or a lie.

You do realize that with the possibility that the Senate could become Majority Democrat next year (slim chance, but still a chance), the Democrats as minority are not really much more dishonorable than the Republicans who simply refused to consider anyone until they at least were forced by a different Democrat president (2 years ago). The tools may have been more troubling in the present case, but the actions in both cases were equally troubling.

Trump was framed by the highest levels of our intelligence.

As claimed by Trump and his supporters, and supported by writings of conspiracy theorists. No real proof. And his actions since have given a lot of reason to believe anything that might be found. His brown-facing (got more than his nose involved) with Putin in Moscow was reprehensible. If my opinion was worth anything, he would have been jailed for treason. While I don’t think highly of Pence anymore, I do believe he would actually undertake the office of the President with the kind of demeanor it should require. But I’d take Kasich in 2020 in a heartbeat.

Reminds me of how both Bush #41 and #43 were silent on Obama, and then came forward to condemned Trump.

You confuse disagreement on politics with disagreement on the actual execution of the job. The speaking out against Trump is not about his political positions. It is about his lies and demeanor. And they are too numerous. How do you tell he is lying? His lips are moving while not reading the teleprompter. And when it is on twitter.

I don’t like Obama’s politics. But I do not think he is anything like the reprehensible character that Trump is. I think that some of Trump’s proposed policies might be good. But it would be much better if someone of character were the one proposing them. I applaud all Republicans who have the backbone to stand up against the bully that currently holds the office of President.

Those who accused him were apparently just alive in the same state in the same decade. None of BK's friends said his partying crossed the line.

Keep shoveling manure. If they think the stink is from the manure, they may miss the dead body it is covering.

[awareness]

A wall, a pidgin, a snake, the Messiah, and the end days :

Biblical prophecy COMES TRUE as live snake wriggles out of Israel’s Western Wall

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wei...l-western-wall

[Ohio]

For the American people to accept these types of accusations against Kavanaugh on face value alone is extremely dangerous.

Originally Posted by OBW

But to accept everything that Trump says at face value is not? Like declaring the caravan to be murders, rapists, and illegal immigrants. There is no evidence for the first two, and at this point there are no illegal immigrants among them. They have not entered the US at all, therefore are neither immigrants nor illegal. They have been poled by reporters (from both sides, I believe) and all say that they are coming to American to seek asylum. If they do that, they are not illegal unless (und until) their request is denied and they stay in country anyway without being allowed to under other provisions. Asking for asylum is not illegal.

Nice switch, but I'll respond here.

Trump has 80% of the media against him, so no one takes anything at "face value." You hate our Prez, and I get that, but I would like to think someone like you could look behind the curtain to get some facts.

Trump never said that every migrant in the caravan is a murderer and a rapist. That is pure BS you are regurgitating from the media. Have you also read about who is sponsoring these caravans? What is the demographic composition of the caravan? The violence inflicted upon the communities in their path? The violent outbreaks with the police? The child smuggling? The drug cartels? The incidence of rape and abuse along the way? Obviously not reported by your media sources.

Seeking asylum? There may be some, sure. But they must do that legally. Mexico offered this to them, but most turned it down. That should make all fair-minded people wonder.

Like I always say -- your views depend on the source of your news. Better get that right. Mainstream media no longer reports actual news, rather they are like the serpent in the garden sowing seeds of suspicion with every report. Otherwise you will believe that Trump colluded with the Russians and caused that Trump-hating murderer to shoot up the Synagogue.

Have you forgotten that the god of this age has blinded the minds of the many?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For the American people to accept these types of accusations against Kavanaugh on face value alone is extremely dangerous.


Nice switch, but I'll respond here.

Trump has 80% of the media against him, so no one takes anything at "face value." You hate our Prez, and I get that, but I would like to think someone like you could look behind the curtain to get some facts.

Trump never said that every migrant in the caravan is a murderer and a rapist. That is pure BS you are regurgitating from the media. Have you also read about who is sponsoring these caravans? What is the demographic composition of the caravan? The violence inflicted upon the communities in their path? The violent outbreaks with the police? The child smuggling? The drug cartels? The incidence of rape and abuse along the way? Obviously not reported by your media sources.

Seeking asylum? There may be some, sure. But they must do that legally. Mexico offered this to them, but most turned it down. That should make all fair-minded people wonder.

Like I always say -- your views depend on the source of your news. Better get that right. Mainstream media no longer reports actual news, rather they are like the serpent in the garden sowing seeds of suspicion with every report. Otherwise you will believe that Trump colluded with the Russians and caused that Trump-hating murderer to shoot up the Synagogue.

Have you forgotten that the god of this age has blinded the minds of the many?

How much of the media seems to (or is) against him is really not a cause for lying. But for Trump, it makes him want to double-down and talk about how to simply shut them up.

As for the caravan, Trump is intentionally vague. But the verbiage is intended to imply that it is some significant part, not just somerun-of-the-mill number. Just like his declaration that 63,000 of the people in prison are illegal aliens who have committed heinous crimes.

That claim has been fully debunked. It has actually been demonstrated that there is less crime among new immigrants — legal or illegal — than the general population and that it starts moving toward the mainstream stats in the second generation.

The 63,000 is a general number of non-US citizen incarcerations (without reference to legal/illegal status). And it ignores that of the illegals there, the majority have simply committed the crime (a felony) of being in the U.S. illegally. While still a crime, it makes a lie of trying to imply that the percentage of citizens in prison for murder, rapes, etc., applies to the whole of the illegal aliens.

As for our little disagreement here, I have no problem with the bare fact that you support Trump. I don't. You haven't lowered yourself to "ignorant" status in my eyes. But you ask whether I am being critical in my thinking. I can assure that I am. Long before Trump and the current fiasco (in my eyes), there has been a march toward madness in the rhetoric of the people who speak the loudest about the positions that I generally support. Now I must say that I do not hold them as strongly or extremely as is expected of a "good" Republican. Sanity prevailed when someone definitely on the conservative side of the center could co-author a bill with Ted Kennedy. Now having a Republican as near the center as McCain (God rest his soul) working with a Democrat as near the center as Lieberman is generally anathema for a Republican. And probably the same for the Democrat. And the result is deadlock and venom. From both sides. But right now, while the rhetoric from both sides is too strong, I see the hollow claim of truth in what is coming from the "right" and it is sickening. Trump is as didactically false as was Lee. All he has to do is say it and it is heralded by his loyal parrots from the FTT in DC.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by OBW

Trump is as didactically false as was Lee. All he has to do is say it and it is heralded by his loyal parrots from the FTT in DC.

Trump and Lee? One personality cult leader is as good as another.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

Yes. The mode of releasing the information was a grandstand of the worst kind. But you mistake mode of release for veracity, or lack thereof.

All of the claims of lies you make are without merit. You didn’t like how it played out so she was lying. She didn’t want to come forward so her reluctance proves lying. She doesn’t like to fly, so the delays are evidence of lying. She didn’t make any charge at the time, so she is lying. What a load of manure.

Really? Please show me the post where I said any of this? You have confused me with Ohio.

Originally Posted by OBW

Not now. There is a statute of limitations. You have absolutely no idea about what might have happened then. If it were brought forward at the time, you might never have heard of Brett Kavanaugh. And you may be right that it would never have been filed. But as so often happens in those kinds of cases, the woman is embarrassed that she allowed herself into the situation. She blames herself. And so on. So never files the charge. Never speaks of it to anyone, so no contemporaneous knowledge by anyone else.

I was not speaking about hypotheticals as to what might have been. I was pointing out that no DA would act on these claims today, when Feinstein got them. She knew this. She knew he had gone through 6 FBI background checks. She knew that the only value this would have is if she used it at the 11th hour to delay the confirmation. You have obviously not read all of my posts on this topic. I have made it very clear that there is a lot of evidence that the police can find to help verify these claims if they are made in a timely manner.

Originally Posted by OBW

Yes, that is a minefield for false accusations later. But it is interesting how many such false accusations are quickly discovered to clearly be false.

Are you talking about your own false accusations? 1. I have never once said that I thought Ford was lying. 2. I have never once mentioned or responded to her not wanting to fly. 3. I have never once said that her not making a charge 36 years ago should be a basis to think she is now lying. 4. I have never said that a DA would not have responded to her claim had she made it 36 years ago. Those are 4 accusations made by you in just a paragraph or two, all of which can easily be verified as false by looking at my posts.

Originally Posted by OBW

You made some snarky comment about me not having any spine. Your answer is to just make stuff up and build a wall.

No I didn't. This is another false accusation. Is anything in this post true or is it all lies? Once again you are referring to a Post by Ohio, not me.

Originally Posted by OBW

My response is to enforce existing laws, and work on better ones.

The only response I'm interested in is an apology.

Originally Posted by OBW

You confuse disagreement on politics with disagreement on the actual execution of the job. The speaking out against Trump is not about his political positions. It is about his lies and demeanor.

Really? Please direct me to the post where I am confused on this? Once again you are the one who has confused me for Ohio.

In the future do not delete the name of the person you are posting. You mingled quotes from me and Ohio, deleted the names, and pretended we were the same person. This is not a simple task to delete the name in each quote and had to have been done intentionally.

[Ohio]

The Story of Robert Mueller and Whitey Bulger

Back in 1976, as we were celebrating the 200th birthday of this republic, Congress passed a law limiting the tenure of the FBI director to 10 years. This was done because, after the scandalous findings of the Church Commission, Congress realized that letting J. Edgar Hoover serve as director of the bureau from its founding in 1935 until his death in 1972 had only confirmed Lord Acton’s maxim that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Hoover was a power unto himself, and the FBI that was created very much in his image sometimes acted more like the secret police of the totalitarian regimes Hoover regularly denounced: running rogue wiretaps, harassing political dissidents, using illegal means to collect evidence. Hoover’s FBI wasn’t accountable; it was untouchable.

So now, just weeks after the FBI’s worst nightmare, a gangster and FBI informant by the name of Whitey Bulger came strolling back into town, Congress is about to ignore its own wisdom and let Bob Mueller, the FBI director and former US Attorney in Boston, stay on an extra two years. President Obama says he needs Mueller to stay because there’s been so much turnover in the national security teams at the CIA and Pentagon, and that’s all well and good.

Mueller has wide, bipartisan support in Congress. To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, I know Bob Mueller and he’s no J. Edgar Hoover, though the folks at the ACLU might take exception to that. The recent FBI targeting of antiwar and labor activists in the Midwest has a disturbing echo of the days when the bureau considered Martin Luther King Jr. a sinister threat to national security. But Mueller’s a Marine veteran and tough enough to take a question or two before Congress gives the president what he wants, and Mike Albano is just the guy to ask it: What did you know about Whitey Bulger, and when did you know it.

Back in the 1980s, when he was serving on the Massachusetts parole board, Albano expressed some sympathy for a group of men who had always maintained they had been framed for the 1965 gangland murder of a hoodlum named Teddy Deegan in Chelsea. The FBI had been instrumental in seeing that the men - Peter Limone, Henry Tameleo, Joe Salvati, and Louis Greco - were convicted. The FBI contended that Tameleo was the consigliere of the Mafia in Boston, and that Limone was a Mafia leader. There is no question that both men were bad actors, and Mafia players, but the evidence showed that neither had anything to do Deegan’s murder. So in 1983, after Albano indicated he might vote to release Limone, he got a visit from a pair of FBI agents named John Connolly and John Morris. They told Albano that the men convicted of Deegan’s murder were bad guys, made guys.

"They told me that if I wanted to stay in public life, I shouldn’t vote to release a guy like Limone,’’ Albano said. “They intimidated me.’’ Turns out that Connolly was Whitey Bulger’s corrupt handler and Morris was Connolly’s corrupt supervisor. When they weren’t pocketing bribes from Bulger, they were helping him murder potential witnesses who were poised to expose the FBI’s sordid, Faustian deal with the rat named Whitey Bulger.

Albano was messing with the FBI’s national policy of going after the Mafia and the Mafia alone. That was the justification the FBI gave for making deals with devils like Whitey Bulger and his partner in crime, Stevie Flemmi. They were supposedly giving up their pals in the Mafia. The problem with the FBI’s national policy is that it didn’t take into account that the most vicious, murderous gangsters in Boston were Whitey Bulger and Stevie Flemmi.

After Albano was elected mayor of Springfield in 1995, he soon found the FBI hot on his tail, investigating his administration for corruption. The FBI took down several people in his administration, and Albano is convinced that the FBI wasn’t interested in public integrity as much as in publicly humiliating him because he dared to defy them.

In 2001, the four men convicted of Teddy Deegan’s murder were exonerated. Turned out the FBI let them take the rap to protect one of their informants, a killer named Vincent “Jimmy’’ Flemmi, who just happened to be the brother of their other rat, Stevie Flemmi. Thanks to the FBI’s corruption, taxpayers got stuck with the $100 million bill for compensating the framed men, two of whom, Greco and Tameleo, died in prison.

Albano was appalled that, later that same year, Robert Mueller was appointed FBI director, because it was Mueller, first as an assistant US attorney then as the acting US attorney in Boston, who wrote letters to the parole and pardons board throughout the 1980s opposing clemency for the four men framed by FBI lies.

Of course, Mueller was also in that position while Whitey Bulger was helping the FBI cart off his criminal competitors even as he buried bodies in shallow graves along the Neponset. “Before he gets that extension,’’ Mike Albano said, “somebody in the Senate or House needs to ask him why the US Attorney’s office he led let the FBI protect Whitey Bulger.’’

I called FBI headquarters in Washington and tried to do just that. The nice lady who answered suggested I talk to one of the FBI’s “public affairs specialists.’’ But my call was not returned.

Four years ago, when questioned about the FBI’s corruption in Boston, Mueller told the Globe, “I think the public should recognize that what happened, happened years ago.’’ That’s true. And we still don’t know what really happened

[Ohio]

Brett Kavanaugh Rape Accuser Admits She Made Up Her Story

The Senate Judiciary Committee has referred a Kentucky woman to the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) after she admitted making up an accusation that U.S. Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh had raped her.

According to committee transcripts released Sunday, the accuser, who signed the mysterious letter as “Jane Doe,” alleges Kavanaugh and a friend raped her “several times” after giving her a lift home from a party — making no attempt to claim a time or place for the lurid story.

The accuser claims Kavanaugh groped her, slapped her, and force her to perform sexual acts. “They forced me to go into the backseat and took 2 turns raping me several times each. They dropped me off 3 two blocks from my home,” the accuser wrote, claiming the pair told her, “No one will believe if you tell. Be a good girl.”

What's with these radical Lefties from Kentucky?

[zeek]

God’s Red Army

The Republican Party hopes to beat back the Democrats on Tuesday with a big push from the Christian right.

“If we do our jobs,” Ralph Reed of the Faith & Freedom Coalition boasted at the Values Voters Summit in September, “they are going to be more shocked than they were the last time.”

The Christian nationalist turnout machine relies heavily on an extensive network of conservative pastors.

J.C. Church, Watchmen on the Wall’s national director of ministry engagement and a founder of the Ohio-focused get-out-the-vote initiative Awake88, said, “the No. 1 thing” anybody can give you is “the supreme Christ.” But “the second greatest thing we can give this generation,” he swiftly added, “is the Supreme Court. We can build a firewall for our children and grandchildren that they just might scale the seven mountains of influence.”

“Seven mountains” alludes to an aspect of Christian dominionist ideology, according to which God has commanded true Christians to gain control of seven areas of civilization — including government, business, education and the media.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/o...d=165251391103

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Brett Kavanaugh Rape Accuser Admits She Made Up Her Story


What's with these radical Lefties from Kentucky?

They vote McConnell in over and over again, and for McCain/Palin, and for Trump. Yeah, what's with these lefties here?

We're so crazy left here that we've got the Creation Museum, and the Ark of Noah ... and the Flintstone's riding dinosaurs. Crazy lefties.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

God’s Red Army

The Republican Party hopes to beat back the Democrats on Tuesday with a big push from the Christian right.

“If we do our jobs,” Ralph Reed of the Faith & Freedom Coalition boasted at the Values Voters Summit in September, “they are going to be more shocked than they were the last time.”

The Christian nationalist turnout machine relies heavily on an extensive network of conservative pastors.

J.C. Church, Watchmen on the Wall’s national director of ministry engagement and a founder of the Ohio-focused get-out-the-vote initiative Awake88, said, “the No. 1 thing” anybody can give you is “the supreme Christ.” But “the second greatest thing we can give this generation,” he swiftly added, “is the Supreme Court. We can build a firewall for our children and grandchildren that they just might scale the seven mountains of influence.”

“Seven mountains” alludes to an aspect of Christian dominionist ideology, according to which God has commanded true Christians to gain control of seven areas of civilization — including government, business, education and the media.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/o...d=165251391103

The Devil's Blue Army

Hopes to advance His many causes of atheism, abortion murders, suppression of free speech, totalitarian socialism, identity politics, anarchist protests, politically correct speech, activist judges, gay and transgender education for public schools, suppression of conservative ideals, condemnation of Republican elected officials, smear campaign against Trump, Mueller's attempts to frame the Presidemt, Pelosi's impeachment campaign, etc.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

They vote McConnell in over and over again, and for McCain/Palin, and for Trump. Yeah, what's with these lefties here?

We're so crazy left here that we've got the Creation Museum, and the Ark of Noah ... and the Flintstone's riding dinosaurs. Crazy lefties.

That's for sure. It's not even safe to cut your Kentucky blue grass any more.

Ask Rand. His wife has to sleep with a loaded gun nearby.

But that's the Left's strategy. Since all their policies are disastrous, they must resort to fear mongering the right into submission. Sounds a little like Mel Porter.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Devil's Blue Army

Hopes to advance His many causes of atheism, abortion murders, suppression of free speech, totalitarian socialism, identity politics, anarchist protests, politically correct speech, activist judges, gay and transgender education for public schools, suppression of conservative ideals, condemnation of Republican elected officials, smear campaign against Trump, Mueller's attempts to frame the Presidemt, Pelosi's impeachment campaign, etc.

You think people who don't agree with your opinions are of the Devil. No wonder Right-wingers think they're justified to send us bombs in the mail and shoot us in our synagogues and churches. After all they're just slaying the "Devil's Blue Army".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You think people who don't agree with your opinions are of the Devil. No wonder Right-wingers think they're justified to send us bombs in the mail and shoot us in our synagogues and churches. After all they're just slaying the Devil's army.

Hold on there. Get your facts straight.

Wasn't it a left-wing anti-semite who shot up that synagogue? Wasn't it a left-wing socialist who shot up that Congressional game? Isn't it those left-wing crazies who use social media to target conservatives in restaurants in every city.

So let me ask zeek, is atheism of God or the Devil?

Is abortion of God or the Devil?

Are threats of violence in public places of God or the Devil?

Is gay and transgender sex education in preschools of God or the Devil?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hold on there. Get your facts straight.

Wasn't it a left-wing anti-semite who shot up that synagogue? Wasn't it a left-wing socialist who shot up that Congressional game? Isn't it those left-wing crazies who use social media to target conservatives in restaurants in every city.

So let me ask zeek, is atheism of God or the Devil?

Is abortion of God or the Devil?

Are threats of violence in public places of God or the Devil?

Is gay and transgender sex education in preschools of God or the Devil?

And this is why the US is destined to be a house divided and cannot stand.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hold on there. Get your facts straight.

Wasn't it a left-wing anti-semite who shot up that synagogue? Wasn't it a left-wing socialist who shot up that Congressional game? Isn't it those left-wing crazies who use social media to target conservatives in restaurants in every city.

So let me ask zeek, is atheism of God or the Devil?

Is abortion of God or the Devil?

Are threats of violence in public places of God or the Devil?

Is gay and transgender sex education in preschools of God or the Devil?

Once again you expose yourself with your devil talk thus providing more evidence in support of my last post:

You think people who don't agree with your opinions are of the Devil. No wonder Right-wingers think they're justified to send us bombs in the mail and shoot us in our synagogues and churches. After all they're just slaying the "Devil's Blue Army".

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

And this is why the US is destined to be a house divided and cannot stand.

Yeah. I don't think labeling people as "the Devil's Blue Army" helps, do you?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

And this is why the US is destined to be a house divided and cannot stand.

Both the House and the Senate have always been divided.

And I don't think these bogus "principles" are going to work on conservatives any more, not after we witnessed the vicious evil inflicted on the Kavanaugh family by your people.

Originally Posted by zeek

Yeah. I don't think labeling people as "the Devil's Blue Army" helps, do you?

Does mocking conservative's as "God’s Red Army" help?

I'd say that it's better to know what one stands for.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Yeah. I don't think labeling people as "the Devil's Blue Army" helps, do you?

I think the idea of a constitution with "freedom of religion" is doomed to failure. The questions that Ohio asked make that clear.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Both the House and the Senate have always been divided.

And I don't think these bogus "principles" are going to work on conservatives any more, not after we witnessed the vicious evil inflicted on the Kavanaugh family by your people.

Who are my people? Why do you accuse "my people" of inflicting evil on the Kavanaugh family?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Who are my people? Why do you accuse "my people" of inflicting evil on the Kavanaugh family?

"Journalists." Don't you come from a family of journalists? Don't I get to generalize judgments like the rest of you guys?

Didn't journalists blame Trump for the Synagogue murders and the pipebomber? You know MAGA bomber! I saw endless journalists chime in on Trump's danger to society.

Don't you see how the game is played? Perhaps you need to learn from zeek and our MOTA.


Don't get offended, I'm just learning how to ditch common sense reason and play the Left's games.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"Journalists." Don't you come from a family of journalists?

Yes, I come from a family of journalists.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Don't I get to generalize judgments like the rest of you guys?

No. The minute you do what you are condemning you condemn yourself.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Didn't journalists blame Trump for the Synagogue murders and the pipebomber? You know MAGA bomber! I saw endless journalists chime in on Trump's danger to society.

Don't you see how the game is played? Perhaps you need to learn from zeek and our MOTA.

Why would I learn from them? I learned from my parents that credibility is everything to a journalist. The minute you trade it in to be a mouthpiece pushing someone's agenda is the minute you are no longer a reputable journalist.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Don't get offended, I'm just learning how to ditch common sense reason and play the Left's games.

You are learning to imitate the evil, not the good. You are ditching the apostle's fellowship *that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;

If you forsake that fellowship you also forsake the blessing -- to make our name great. You can't put on the New Man if you are playing an evil game.

[zeek]

On Friday 11/02/2018 in Tallahassee a gunman shot a group of people a yoga studio, killing a physician and a university student and injuring five others before killing himself. The killer was a far-right extremist and self-proclaimed misogynist who railed against women, black people, and immigrants in a series of online videos and songs. He had a history of sexually assaulting women. My community is in shock and mourning. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...103-story.html

[zeek]

Anguished by ‘Spiral of Hate,’ Charleston Pastor and Pittsburgh Rabbi Grieve as One

The killings of nine parishioners at a black church in Charleston and 11 congregants at a synagogue in Pittsburgh brought people in those two communities together in an unspeakable grief.

“This incident, like at Emanuel, was not an attack on a particular group,” the rabbi said at the close of the meeting. “It was an attack on America because it challenges our right to assemble and worship our God in the way we want. It has continued a downward spiral of hate, one that’s prevalent in all corners of the United States.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/u...d=165251391104

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

On Friday 11/02/2018 in Tallahassee a gunman shot a group of people a yoga studio, killing a physician and a university student and injuring five others before killing himself. The killer was a far-right extremist and self-proclaimed misogynist who railed against women, black people, and immigrants in a series of online videos and songs. He had a history of sexually assaulting women. My community is in shock and mourning. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...103-story.html

You left out that this murderer also hated and ranted against police officers.

Mayor Gillum also has an anti-police stance.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

On Friday 11/02/2018 in Tallahassee a gunman shot a group of people a yoga studio, killing a physician and a university student and injuring five others before killing himself. The killer was a far-right extremist and self-proclaimed misogynist who railed against women, black people, and immigrants in a series of online videos and songs. He had a history of sexually assaulting women. My community is in shock and mourning. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...103-story.html

Don Lemon got it right. "The Biggest Terror Threat In This Country Is White Men"

"So, we have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them. There is no travel ban on them. There is no ban on -- you know, they had the Muslim ban. There is no white guy ban,"

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

"So, we have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men

Oh, the irony.

[Ohio]

American Jews have been politically divided for decades, and it has little to do with Trump. They are also divided over Netanyahu, the State of Israel, and the need for rebuilding the Temple

The Jewish left botched its response to the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting

This brazen attempt to blame Jewish backers of the president for the attack and excommunicate them from their community is scandalous. It is also a dog whistle for animosity toward more traditionalist Jews, who constitute one of the most pro-Trump demographics in the country (indeed several serve as high-ranking officials in the administration).

Such sentiments reveal what underlies the entire liberal Jewish response to Pittsburgh: For them, Judaism is synonymous with liberalism. Donald Trump is cast as an enemy of the Jews not because he has shown any hostility to the Jewish people or the Jewish State (quite the contrary) but because he is an enemy of liberalism. The same goes for his “Jewish enablers,” who have allegedly betrayed their community by backing him.

As it happens, Trump has done more than any other president to prevent attacks on Jews, including by cutting funds to the Palestinian Authority. This courageous decision thwarts its pay-to-slay policy of issuing financial reward to terrorist murderers of Jews. But no matter. The Jewish social-justice chorale serves at the altar of liberalism and Trump is their Antichrist (just as, lest we forget, George W. Bush was before him).

Degrading Judaism to advance their petty politics, as the Jewish social justice movement has always done, is insulting enough. Using Pittsburgh’s dead to do so is altogether grotesque.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Don Lemon got it right. "The Biggest Terror Threat In This Country Is White Men"

"So, we have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them. There is no travel ban on them. There is no ban on -- you know, they had the Muslim ban. There is no white guy ban,"

Then why do you think Don Lemon would have a White boyfriend?

There is nothing "right" about Lemon. He is "wrong" and "left" about everything.

[Ohio]

More Leftist hypocrisy.

Suspect in Vandalism Attack on New York Synagogue Is Democrat Activist

James Polite?, the 26-year-old man who was arrested Friday for allegedly vandalizing a synagogue in Brooklyn Thursday, is a Democratic activist who once worked for New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, and also volunteered for Barack Obama.

Mr. Polite was arrested on Friday and charged with criminal mischief as a hate crime for writing “Die Jew Rats,” “Hitler,” “End It Now” and “Jew Better Be Ready” in marker on walls of the Union Temple of Brooklyn.

Mr. Polite was charged with arson, reckless endangerment and criminal mischief — all as hate crimes — for setting fires at four other locations affiliated with the Jewish community, including another school. The police recognized Mr. Polite from the surveillance video at Union Temple.

The synagogue had been scheduled to host a Democratic Party event. The Daily Caller notes that Democrats, including New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, had used the vandalism in political messages — until the arrest. Oops! [Ed.]

In a further irony, the Daily Caller notes, Polite worked for Quinn on hate crime issues. She issued a statement on Saturday, noting that she was “simply and utterly devastated,” and suggesting that Polite suffered from mental health issues. (He was taken to a psychiatric ward after his arrest for evaluation.) He interned with Ms. Quinn, a Manhattan Democrat, for several years, working on initiatives to combat hate crime, sexual assault and domestic violence.

[Ohio]

Senate Judiciary Committee Releasees Full Brett Kavanaugh Report: ‘No Evidence’ of Sexual Misconduct

After an extensive investigation that included the thorough review of all potentially credible evidence submitted and interviews of more than 40 individuals with information relating to the allegations, including classmates and friends of all those involved, Committee investigators found no witness who could provide any verifiable evidence to support any of the allegations brought against Justice Kavanaugh. In other words, following the separate and extensive investigations by both the Committee and the FBI, there was no evidence to substantiate any of the claims of sexual assault made against Justice Kavanaugh.

But, sorry to say, there will always be those who believe lies, especially the really big ones.

[zeek]

Ohio said:

The great US columnist Charles Krauthammer once noted this truth about contemporary political life in America: ‘To understand the workings of American politics you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.’

You proved Krauthammer was wrong. You who consider yourself "conservative" seem to think liberals belong to the evil-one himself. As you stated:

"The Devil's Blue Army -- Hopes to advance His many causes of atheism, abortion murders, suppression of free speech, totalitarian socialism, identity politics, anarchist protests, politically correct speech, activist judges, gay and transgender education for public schools, suppression of conservative ideals, condemnation of Republican elected officials, smear campaign against Trump, Mueller's attempts to frame the Presidemt, Pelosi's impeachment campaign, etc."

Krauthammer said conservatives thought liberals were merely stupid. You imply liberals are not only stupid, but so evil that they are "the devil's---"the Devil's Blue Army". In your viewpoint I think I see echoes of Witness Lee who declared that Judaism was Satanic.

As we have pointed out, the third line of the enemy is the degradation of the churches. The churches themselves are not the enemies, but the degradation, the degraded situation, the degraded condition, of the churches has become a real enemy to us. In overcoming the degradation of the churches, we need to overcome three “isms”—satanic Judaism (2:9-10), demonic Catholicism (vv. 24-28), and dead and Christless Protestantism (3:1-5, 20-21). The God-men, a book composed of messages given by Witness Lee in Anaheim, California, on May 26 through 29, 1995.

This kind of devil talk is troubling. Isn't this the kind of hate speech used to justify violence against people considered Satanic?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Ohio said:

The great US columnist Charles Krauthammer once noted this truth about contemporary political life in America: ‘To understand the workings of American politics you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.’

You proved Krauthammer was wrong. You who consider yourself "conservative" seem to think liberals belong to the evil-one himself. As you stated:

"The Devil's Blue Army -- Hopes to advance His many causes of atheism, abortion murders, suppression of free speech, totalitarian socialism, identity politics, anarchist protests, politically correct speech, activist judges, gay and transgender education for public schools, suppression of conservative ideals, condemnation of Republican elected officials, smear campaign against Trump, Mueller's attempts to frame the Presidemt, Pelosi's impeachment campaign, etc."

Krauthammer said conservatives thought liberals were merely stupid. You imply liberals are not only stupid, but so evil that they are "the devil's---"the Devil's Blue Army". In your viewpoint I think I see echoes of Witness Lee who declared that Judaism was Satanic.

As we have pointed out, the third line of the enemy is the degradation of the churches. The churches themselves are not the enemies, but the degradation, the degraded situation, the degraded condition, of the churches has become a real enemy to us. In overcoming the degradation of the churches, we need to overcome three “isms”—satanic Judaism (2:9-10), demonic Catholicism (vv. 24-28), and dead and Christless Protestantism (3:1-5, 20-21). The God-men, a book composed of messages given by Witness Lee in Anaheim, California, on May 26 through 29, 1995.

This kind of devil talk is troubling. Isn't this the kind of hate speech used to justify violence against people considered Satanic?

The Bible is filled with "devil talk" you should read it.

My comment about "the Devil's Blue Army" was in response to your mocking God and His "red army."

If you read my post, you will see that I listed activities which were the work of the devil. I did not call anyone names. Do you acknowledge abortion as murder, and the work of the devil? Obviously not, because you can't even be sure if there is a God. With such "assurance" in your belief system, do you even believe there is a devil?

[Ohio]

Armed Black Panthers Lobby for Democrat Gubernatorial Candidate Stacey Abrams



It’s no surprise that militant Black Panthers are armed and patrolling the streets of Georgia for Stacey Abrams. The Black Panthers are a radical hate group with a racist and anti-semitic agenda. They are dangerous and encourage violence against our men and women in uniform. Stacey Abrams should immediately denounce the Black Panthers and their hateful record of racism. She should stand against and condemn their attempts to intimidate hardworking Georgia voters just days before the election.

[Ohio]

Picture is worth a million fake news stories ...

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Picture is worth a million fake news stories ...

But Trump just admitted that Russia stole the election for him :

"Rumor has it that Senator Joe Donnelly of Indiana is paying for Facebook ads for his so-called opponent on the libertarian ticket. Donnelly is trying to steal the election? Isn’t that what Russia did!?

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 3, 2018"

[ZNPaaneah]

Much of the current political debates taking place are lacking any depth of understanding, as a result we have people screaming at each other with a huge gulf between them simply because they are clueless about what is going on.

For example, these refugees coming towards the US.

The people who are making this out to be a great threat are not stupid people, nor are they ignorant of the facts. Assuming either is foolish. Likewise, if you think they are using this as a way to inspire people with fear you still haven’t explained what is going on, so that is a superficial explanation.

50 years ago there was sufficient evidence to realize our consumption of fossil fuel was not sustainable. Between Peak oil and Climate change this was a grave national security threat to the US. Carter convened a meeting of oil men at the Whitehouse. He wanted to make alternative energy sources a national goal. He was “shot down”. So instead we fought two Gulf Wars. Bush suckered Sadam into attacking Kuwait so that we could put our military in control of Iraq’s oil field, the biggest natural reserves of oil outside of Saudi Arabia. 911 was an inside job designed to act as a catalyst so that the US could blow up the military budget converting to drones, robots, AI, etc. It was also used so that we could secure gas fields in Tajikistan and strengthen our hand in Iraq.

Now you might think these people are idiots, don’t you realize what Climate change is going to do? Well, obviously they do. There have been several Pentagon reports done. One thing that has become clear is they realize there will be millions of climate refugees. Europe was put into great turmoil from climate refugees in the last few years, likewise the US is concerned about our Southern border. Why have gangs all of a sudden become such a threat to these countries?

The problem isn’t that they are stupid, or ignorant. The problem is they have chosen a path that preserves their status, wealth and power at all costs. Are they psychopaths? Apparently. This has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats. Obama did nothing. Clinton did nothing. It is about money controlling politicians.

This is by far the biggest threat to the US and the world. Countries will fall like dominoes. Yet what is the media screaming about? Mueller, Stacey Abrams, Cohen, Avenati, Kavanaugh's high school parties from 36 years ago,...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Much of the current political debates taking place are lacking any depth of understanding, as a result we have people screaming at each other with a huge gulf between them simply because they are clueless about what is going on.

For example, these refugees coming towards the US.

The people who are making this out to be a great threat are not stupid people, nor are they ignorant of the facts. Assuming either is foolish. Likewise, if you think they are using this as a way to inspire people with fear you still haven’t explained what is going on, so that is a superficial explanation.

50 years ago there was sufficient evidence to realize our consumption of fossil fuel was not sustainable. Between Peak oil and Climate change this was a grave national security threat to the US. Carter convened a meeting of oil men at the Whitehouse. He wanted to make alternative energy sources a national goal. He was “shot down”. So instead we fought two Gulf Wars. Bush suckered Sadam into attacking Kuwait so that we could put our military in control of Iraq’s oil field, the biggest natural reserves of oil outside of Saudi Arabia. 911 was an inside job designed to act as a catalyst so that the US could blow up the military budget converting to drones, robots, AI, etc. It was also used so that we could secure gas fields in Tajikistan and strengthen our hand in Iraq.

Now you might think these people are idiots, don’t you realize what Climate change is going to do? Well, obviously they do. There have been several Pentagon reports done. One thing that has become clear is they realize there will be millions of climate refugees. Europe was put into great turmoil from climate refugees in the last few years, likewise the US is concerned about our Southern border. Why have gangs all of a sudden become such a threat to these countries?

The problem isn’t that they are stupid, or ignorant. The problem is they have chosen a path that preserves their status, wealth and power at all costs. Are they psychopaths? Apparently. This has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats. Obama did nothing. Clinton did nothing. It is about money controlling politicians.

This is by far the biggest threat to the US and the world. Countries will fall like dominoes. Yet what is the media screaming about? Mueller, Stacey Abrams, Cohen, Avenati, Kavanaugh's high school parties from 36 years ago,...

Wow! Way too much conspiracy theory to unpack in one sitting. Bush suckered Saddam into attacking Kuwait??? 911 was an inside job???

"Jimmy Carter convened a meeting of oil men at the Whitehouse. He wanted to make alternative energy sources a national goal. He was “shot down”. So instead we fought two Gulf Wars"??? Not so! We at OSU had a state-of-the-art solar house. We dumped huge amounts of money to make that house viable, but it failed. Why? Technology. We did not have the solar technology in the 70's that we have today.

Rufugee crises? It's not climate change, but evil wars from power hungry men which produce famines. Stalin, not climate change, killed 20 million thru famines, in fact, during the last century, 150 million people did at the hands of their own leaders. Syrian refugees? Not climate change, but evil rulers like Assad.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow! Way too much conspiracy theory to unpack in one sitting. Bush suckered Saddam into attacking Kuwait??? 911 was an inside job???

"Jimmy Carter convened a meeting of oil men at the Whitehouse. He wanted to make alternative energy sources a national goal. He was “shot down”. So instead we fought two Gulf Wars"??? Not so! We at OSU had a state-of-the-art solar house. We dumped huge amounts of money to make that house viable, but it failed. Why? Technology. We did not have the solar technology in the 70's that we have today.

Rufugee crises? It's not climate change, but evil wars from power hungry men which produce famines. Stalin, not climate change, killed 20 million thru famines, in fact, during the last century, 150 million people did at the hands of their own leaders. Syrian refugees? Not climate change, but evil rulers like Assad.

This is what Jesus said. They'll be concerned with Kim Kardashians clothes, and who Ariande is dating, and whether Al Roker wore whiteface right up until the rain starts and the flood takes them away.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is what Jesus said. They'll be concerned with Kim Kardashians clothes, and who Ariande is dating, and whether Al Roker wore whiteface right up until the rain starts and the flood takes them away.

What did Jesus say about Kanye? Will he lead BLEXIT?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Bible is filled with "devil talk" you should read it.

I read it most days.

My comment about "the Devil's Blue Army" was in response to your mocking God and His "red army."

You thought the author was mocking God. I didn't read it that way.

What part of "God's Red Army" don't you like? The people the author referred to believe they have special relationship with God. "Red" is the conventional color for the Republican Party. And "Army" refers to the way the pastors are organizing those folks for political action.

Rather an innocuous and apt trope, I thought. Whereas if you read history you'll see that people who Christians associated with the devil were burned at the stake. Today a guy with an AR-15 might feel justified to murder a bunch of them in what he supposes to be a "synagogue of Satan." It happens.

Anyway, to take offense at being associated with God like you did seems rather hyper-sensitive. Your reaction was a bit like one would expect from those people you mock as "snowflakes". Ironic, don't you think?

If you read my post, you will see that I listed activities which were the work of the devil. I did not call anyone names. Do you acknowledge abortion as murder, and the work of the devil? Obviously not, because you can't even be sure if there is a God. With such "assurance" in your belief system, do you even believe there is a devil?

No. Abortion is not murder. It's legal in Florida until the last trimester of pregnancy when it's prohibited except when necessary to save the life of the mother when her life is physically endangered and no other medical procedure would suffice for that purpose. At that point it can be a third degree felony depending on the circumstances.

And Florida's abortion laws are, generally speaking, more restrictive than those in many other states. Nothing about the devil in there. You have my "assurance" on that.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

No. Abortion is not murder. It's legal in Florida until the last trimester of pregnancy when it's prohibited except when necessary to save the life of the mother when her life is physically endangered and no other medical procedure would suffice for that purpose. At that point it can be a third degree felony depending on the circumstances.

Well there you go, that must prove it. Just like everything the Nazi's did during WWII was also legal and not murder. Summary executions on the street by the Gestapo, legal, not murder, not a felony. Gas chambers -- legal, not murder, not a felony.

In the US slavery was legal. Not the Biblical type where a man in debt could sell a number of years of servitude to pay off his debt, no racial, lifetime slavery. No release from the US version of slavery, you are born into it, your kids will be born into it. Not like the Bible where all debts are forgiven every 50 years. There was no year of Jubilee. Yep, that was legal. Even the Supreme court said that it was constitutional in the Dredd Scott decision.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I read it most days.

You thought the author was mocking God. I didn't read it that way.

What part of God's Red Army" don't you like? The people the author referred to believe they have special relationship with God. "Red" is the conventional color for the Republican Party. And "Army" refers to the way the pastors are organizing those folks for political action.

Not true. False. Deceptive.

I've been to many, many churches, and never saw or heard a politician or pastor giving a political stump speech in church. Bogus claim concerning Christians.

Look at prominent Democrats however ...

Louis Farrakhan is an American religious leader, black nationalist, activist, and social commentator. The Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League describe Farrakhan as antisemitic and a proponent of an anti-white theology.

Jesse Jackson is an American civil rights activist, Baptist minister, and politician. Jackson and other black leaders have publicly endorsed the Palestinian state, with Jackson calling Israel's prime minister a "terrorist", and then soliciting Arab-American financial support.

Al Sharpton is an American civil rights activist, Baptist minister, television and radio talk show host and a former White House adviser for President Barack Obama.

Jeremiah Wright is a pastor emeritus of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, a congregation he led for 36 years. Following retirement, his beliefs and preaching were scrutinized when segments of his sermons about terrorist attacks on the United States and government dishonesty were publicized in connection with the presidential campaign of Barack Obama.

How many times have I seen Democratic candidates speaking in Black "churches?" Too numerous to count.

Why do only real evangelical churches have to comply with the so-called Johnson Amendment?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow! Way too much conspiracy theory to unpack in one sitting.

Unpack this:

143 Million People May Soon Become Climate Migrants
Climate change will drive human migration more than other events, a new report warns. But the worst impacts can be avoided.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...orld-bank-spd/


The planet's average surface temperature has risen about 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit (0.9 degrees Celsius) since the late 19th century

Most of the warming occurred in the past 35 years, with the five warmest years on record taking place since 2010. Not only was 2016 the warmest year on record, but eight of the 12 months that make up the year — from January through September, with the exception of June — were the warmest on record for those respective months.

The oceans have absorbed much of this increased heat, with the top 700 meters (about 2,300 feet) of ocean showing warming of more than 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit since 1969.

The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA's Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost an average of 281 billion tons of ice per year between 1993 and 2016, while Antarctica lost about 119 billion tons during the same time period. The rate of Antarctica ice mass loss has tripled in the last decade.

Glaciers are retreating almost everywhere around the world — including in the Alps, Himalayas, Andes, Rockies, Alaska and Africa.8

Satellite observations reveal that the amount of spring snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere has decreased over the past five decades and that the snow is melting earlier.9

Satellite observations reveal that the amount of spring snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere has decreased over the past five decades and that the snow is melting earlier.9

Both the extent and thickness of Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades.1

The number of record high temperature events in the United States has been increasing, while the number of record low temperature events has been decreasing, since 1950. The U.S. has also witnessed increasing numbers of intense rainfall events.12

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30 percent.13,14*This increase is the result of humans emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year.15,16

[Ohio]

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan led a chant of “Death to America!” on a solidarity visit to Iran this weekend, according to Iranian news sources. He also led a chant of “Death to Israel!”



Hey zeek, here are a couple Generals in satan's Blue Army.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Gas chambers -- legal, not murder, not a felony.

Can't help myself. So you want women not to be considered as sovereign citizens of America, but, if Roe v Wade is not reversed, as walking gas chambers?

The Hitler fallacy argument doesn't hold with abortion. Neither the slavery argument, sanctioned by the Bible, or any other sanction. There's no comparison.

We're talking a womans' body, that no one owns. Let's not make them slaves ... not even the Bible type.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Unpack this:

143 Million People May Soon Become Climate Migrants
Climate change will drive human migration more than other events, a new report warns. But the worst impacts can be avoided.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...orld-bank-spd/


The planet's average surface temperature has risen about 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit (0.9 degrees Celsius) since the late 19th century

Most of the warming occurred in the past 35 years, with the five warmest years on record taking place since 2010. Not only was 2016 the warmest year on record, but eight of the 12 months that make up the year — from January through September, with the exception of June — were the warmest on record for those respective months.

The oceans have absorbed much of this increased heat, with the top 700 meters (about 2,300 feet) of ocean showing warming of more than 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit since 1969.

The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA's Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost an average of 281 billion tons of ice per year between 1993 and 2016, while Antarctica lost about 119 billion tons during the same time period. The rate of Antarctica ice mass loss has tripled in the last decade.

Glaciers are retreating almost everywhere around the world — including in the Alps, Himalayas, Andes, Rockies, Alaska and Africa.8

Satellite observations reveal that the amount of spring snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere has decreased over the past five decades and that the snow is melting earlier.9

Satellite observations reveal that the amount of spring snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere has decreased over the past five decades and that the snow is melting earlier.9

Both the extent and thickness of Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades.1

The number of record high temperature events in the United States has been increasing, while the number of record low temperature events has been decreasing, since 1950. The U.S. has also witnessed increasing numbers of intense rainfall events.12

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30 percent.13,14*This increase is the result of humans emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year.15,16

Do you believe the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof?


If this old earth was not disposable, then why would there be a "new earth?"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Can't help myself. So you want women not to be considered as sovereign citizens of America, but, if Roe v Wade is not reversed, as walking gas chambers?

The Hitler fallacy argument doesn't hold with abortion. Neither the slavery argument, sanctioned by the Bible, or any other sanction. There's no comparison.

We're talking a womans' body, that no one owns. Let's not make them slaves ... not even the Bible type.

The unborn baby is NOT the woman's body!

Abortion clinics ARE legalized gas chambers.

God owns the unborn boy or girl.

And I think you can "help yourself."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan led a chant of “Death to America!” on a solidarity visit to Iran this weekend, according to Iranian news sources. He also led a chant of “Death to Israel!”



Hey zeek, here are a couple Generals in satan's Blue Army.

Of course you think you are hurting Farrakhan's rep.

But Breitbart? Really? Why not throw in Alex Jones too?

You can't be serious. You must be just having fun. You can't be that extreme to the right. Not really. You're a Christian. Not a hater.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Of course you think you are hurting Farrakhan's rep.

But Breitbart? Really? Why not throw in Alex Jones too?

You can't be serious. You must be just having fun. You can't be that extreme to the right. Not really. You're a Christian. Not a hater.

Why do you think the Democrats kept this picture hidden as long as they could?

We need to educate the American voter as to who these Leftist, Socialist, Anti-American, Anti-White, Anti-Israel, pro-Islam leaders are.

Alex Jones may have some crazy conspiracy theories, but even ZNP is on board with the 911 accusations. I'm undecided. Jones never called for "death to America, death to Israel, death to the White Man."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Can't help myself. So you want women not to be considered as sovereign citizens of America, but, if Roe v Wade is not reversed, as walking gas chambers?

The Hitler fallacy argument doesn't hold with abortion. Neither the slavery argument, sanctioned by the Bible, or any other sanction. There's no comparison.

We're talking a womans' body, that no one owns. Let's not make them slaves ... not even the Bible type.

The comparison is that just because some human government says something is "legal" doesn't make it so. There is one law.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Do you believe the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof?

Yes. I also believe that the Lord told man to tend the Earth and that we are responsible for any damage that is done.

Originally Posted by Ohio

If this old earth was not disposable, then why would there be a "new earth?"

It is going to be disposed. Just like my car one day and my house one day. That doesn't change the fact that you would be held accountable if you were to destroy either one prior to that day.

Seriously, that is you "unpacking" the evidence of catastrophic climate change?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes. I also believe that the Lord told man to tend the Earth and that we are responsible for any damage that is done.

This is bogus. Sure Adam was instructed to "tend the garden," but where are the commandments condemning me for turning on my furnace, driving my car to work, buying materials for my house, cooking my dinner, charging my cell phone, etc. Everything I do requires energy. At what point does that become "damage?"

In my view of "tending the garden," the whole city of New York is a sin. God never "intended" for such a monstrous thing to exist. It's far worse than the Tower of Babel. How can you talk about "tending the garden" and live in such a place?

Why do you allow these Soros paid, globalist, environmental socialists to dictate your views of the earth? America has become one of the cleanest and healthiest nations on earth. Our engineers, scientists, and doctors have tried to instruct the rest of the world.

You should take your message to SouthEast Asia, Africa, or South America, some of the filthiest places on the planet. Why don't you try to make their leaders feel guilty about polluting God's green earth? If they would use our modern coal-scrubbers for their power plants, they could end so-called global warming.

Global climate change science is a false religion based on false science.

[awareness]

This is for our dear brother Ohio (not the pulling down part) :

Mysterious billboard featuring President Donald Trump and a bible verse suggesting he might be God incarnate is pulled down in Missouri

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Missouri.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is bogus. Sure Adam was instructed to "tend the garden," but where are the commandments condemning me for turning on my furnace, driving my car to work, buying materials for my house, cooking my dinner, charging my cell phone, etc. Everything I do requires energy. At what point does that become "damage?"

I believe these commandments begin with God giving an inheritance to each tribe. If they pollute that land they pollute their children's inheritance. This aligns perfectly with Adam being responsible for tending and guarding the garden. The land is not simply for you but also for your children. If you damage your children's inheritance then you bring a curse on your own family.

You shall not pollute the land in which you live, for blood pollutes the land, and no atonement can be made for the land for the blood that is shed in it, except by the blood of the one who shed it. You shall not defile the land in which you live, in the midst of which I dwell, for I the Lord dwell in the midst of the people of Israel. Numbers 35:33-34

Pollution kills innocent people. Toxic waste dumps, cutting corners building nuclear power plants, Cancer, polluted water, polluted land.

And I brought you into a plentiful land to enjoy its fruits and its good things. But when you came in, you defiled my land and made my heritage an abomination. Jeremiah 2:7

I have lived in the oil patch (West Texas), I have lived near large oil refineries (Houston). The land is defiled and an abomination. Have you been to a beach on the Gulf of Mexico, little round black balls of tar everywhere from untold oil leaks from offshore drilling.

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 2Peter 2:20

All of the various polluting industries are simply the defilements of the world.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. John3:16-20

That is what we saw with the tobacco industry. That is what we have seen with asbestos. That is what we have just learned about Exxon and the oil industry. Do you realize where much of the oil comes from? In Somalia and Nigeria and other parts of Africa they slaughter the Christians to steal their land so that the oil companies can develop it and the Muslims will get the profit.

Hear the word of the Lord, O children of Israel, for the Lord has a controversy with the inhabitants of the land. There is no faithfulness or steadfast love, and no knowledge of God in the land; there is swearing, lying, murder, stealing, and committing adultery; they break all bounds, and bloodshed follows bloodshed. Therefore the land mourns, and all who dwell in it languish, and also the beasts of the field and the birds of the heavens, and even the fish of the sea are taken away. Hosea 4:1-3

This is true of all big business, but the judgement by God is that the beasts of the field are taken away (clear cutting) and even the fish of the sea are taken away (offshore drilling, factory fishing).

[ZNPaaneah]

I was getting a coffee at a corner store in Brooklyn when the guy standing behind me said "tomorrow is election day, gotta vote". First time I ever heard this much interest in a midterm election. So, kudos to Trump for getting the vote out.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I was getting a coffee at a corner store in Brooklyn when the guy standing behind me said "tomorrow is election day, gotta vote". First time I ever heard this much interest in a midterm election. So, kudos to Trump for getting the vote out.

Trump knows he's on the line. His rally in Missouri was like a local church meeting. They sang Amazing Grace, and prayed the Lord's Prayer. It's like they were calling on the Lord.

... for their personality cult leader ... again ... like the LC.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump knows he's on the line. His rally in Missouri was like a local church meeting. They sang Amazing Grace, and prayed the Lord's Prayer. It's like they were calling on the Lord.

... for their personality cult leader ... again ... like the LC.

Personality cult leader? Something like this???


">

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Personality cult leader? Something like this???


">

That was amazing too. But not like a local church meeting, with shouting and chanting.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That was amazing too. But not like a local church meeting, with shouting and chanting.

Obama sings Amazing Grace... you call that "amazing."

Whereas, you label it a personality cult when the crowd at President Donald Trump’s rally in Missouri on Monday evening began singing "Amazing Grace" after a woman collapsed and needed medical attention. Trump paused his rally for roughly five minutes after asking the audience to say a prayer as emergency responders made their way to the woman. "Is there a doctor in the house, please? Doctor? Please. Thank you," the president said while pointing to the woman in the crowd. As the woman received medical treatment, the crowd of thousands broke out into song.

awareness, your premature condemnation of the Trump rally participants seems a little heartless.

Left-Hate in action, bro!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obama sings Amazing Grace... you call that "amazing."

Whereas, you label it a personality cult when the crowd at President Donald Trump’s rally in Missouri on Monday evening began singing "Amazing Grace" after a woman collapsed and needed medical attention. Trump paused his rally for roughly five minutes after asking the audience to say a prayer as emergency responders made their way to the woman. "Is there a doctor in the house, please? Doctor? Please. Thank you," the president said while pointing to the woman in the crowd. As the woman received medical treatment, the crowd of thousands broke out into song.

awareness, your premature condemnation of the Trump rally participants seems a little heartless.

Left-Hate in action, bro!

This does get ridiculous. If anyone could be labeled as a "personality cult" it was Obama, surprised Awareness didn't see that.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This does get ridiculous. If anyone could be labeled as a "personality cult" it was Obama, surprised Awareness didn't see that.

Dualistic, zero/sum, all-or-nothing thinking seems to be preventing you guys from the simple recognition of the obvious. Both Obama and Trump have their personality cults. As did FDR, JFK and Reagan, Bill Clinton, George W Bush and others.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Dualistic, zero/sum, all-or-nothing thinking seems to be preventing you guys from the simple recognition of the obvious. Both Obama and Trump have their personality cults. As did FDR, JFK and Reagan, Bill Clinton, George W Bush and others.

Apparently the Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists, Presbyterians, Orthodox, Pentecostals, Alliance, CoC, and the LC do too!

And this guy zeek has a "dualistic, zero/sum, all-or-nothing thinking" seems to be preventing him from the simple recognition of the obvious concerning W. Lee.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Apparently the Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists, Presbyterians, Orthodox, Pentecostals, Alliance, CoC, and the LC do too!

And this guy zeek has a "dualistic, zero/sum, all-or-nothing thinking" seems to be preventing him from the simple recognition of the obvious concerning W. Lee.

What do you suppose I don't recognize about Witness Lee?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Dualistic, zero/sum, all-or-nothing thinking seems to be preventing you guys from the simple recognition of the obvious. Both Obama and Trump have their personality cults. As did FDR, JFK and Reagan, Bill Clinton, George W Bush and others.

Oh, is that what I am missing? Didn't realize Awareness had pointed this out in earlier posts a few years back. Just direct me to those posts, thanks.

Because what I thought was obviously ridiculous was the lack of concern about this until Trump came along.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Oh, is that what I am missing? Didn't realize Awareness had pointed this out in earlier posts a few years back. Just direct me to those posts, thanks.

Because what I thought was obviously ridiculous was the lack of concern about this until Trump came along.

Originally Posted by zeek

What do you suppose I don't recognize about Witness Lee?

In a word -- hypocrisy.

You make these outrageous comments, and the best medicine is to take your own words like a mirror and point them back at you.


But I'm willing to grant you much grace today since you helped to put Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis in office.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In a word -- hypocrisy.

You make these outrageous comments, and the best medicine is to take your own words like a mirror and point them back at you.


But I'm willing to grant you much grace today since you helped to put Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis in office.

So I don't recognize witness Lee's hypocrisy is that what you're trying to say? And I helped Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis how? Or is this just more of your "my team good your team evil" game?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Oh, is that what I am missing? Didn't realize Awareness had pointed this out in earlier posts a few years back. Just direct me to those posts, thanks.

Because what I thought was obviously ridiculous was the lack of concern about this until Trump came along.

So you don't think he should have become more concerned about Trump than those other presidents? Cuz I think he should be. I think Trump's divisiveness, nativism, fear-mongering and demagoguery surpasses all those previous guys that I mentioned. Thus the cult of personality around him is more dangerous.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Really? Please show me the post where I said any of this? You have confused me with Ohio.

Actually, I did not attribute the quotes at all. You are the lame brain to jumped to make them into being about you.

All from the smartest man in the room.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Devil's Blue Army

Hopes to advance His many causes of atheism, abortion murders, suppression of free speech, totalitarian socialism, identity politics, anarchist protests, politically correct speech, activist judges, gay and transgender education for public schools, suppression of conservative ideals, condemnation of Republican elected officials, smear campaign against Trump, Mueller's attempts to frame the Presidemt, Pelosi's impeachment campaign, etc.

The whole premise that the conservative side (Republican) is God's and the liberal (Democrat) is of the devil is a tale spun by the kind of ignorant people who believe in America as a Christian nation and that God votes Republican.

All lies and false news.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

The whole premise that the conservative side (Republican) is God's and the liberal (Democrat) is of the devil is a tale spun by the kind of ignorant people who believe in America as a Christian nation and that God votes Republican.

All lies and false news.

The chief issue of this divide is abortion, the murder of the unborn. Apparently you are now convinced that God is not so concerned about the unborn life as the conservatives are.

Did you ever wonder why God commanded the Israelites to kill the Canaanites noted for their human / child sacrifice? Same goes for the Catholic Spaniard Cortez and the Incas who practiced the same?

Nobody is saying that God endorses Republican policies exclusively, every Republican candidate, or "every word that proceedeth forth from the tweet of Trump," but He has commanded us to "Choose Life, that you and your children may live." (Deut 30.19)

Do you also believe that God had no interest in Trump's decision to move our Embassy to Jerusalem? No interest in unwavering Republican support for Israel going back decades?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

Actually, I did not attribute the quotes at all. You are the lame brain to jumped to make them into being about you.

All from the smartest man in the room.

Try rechecking, the first quote was from me, and then you removed the names from every one of the quotes. The other quotes were from Ohio. Yet your post did not in any way indicate you were responding to two different people.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

But you mistake mode of release for veracity, or lack thereof.

This "you" is referring to me.

Originally Posted by OBW

All of the claims of lies you make are without merit.

This "you" is referring to Ohio, yet there is no hint at all in the post of this.

Originally Posted by OBW

Not now. There is a statute of limitations. You have absolutely no idea about what might have happened then.

Ditto -- again reference to Ohio's post

Originally Posted by OBW

You take a poll of the American people as evidence of the truth?

Ditto -- again reference to Ohio's post

Originally Posted by OBW

You made some snarky comment about me not having any spine. Your answer is to just make stuff up and build a wall.

Ditto -- again reference to Ohio's post

Originally Posted by OBW

You are correct that the proper way to dispose of it would have been quietly, behind closed doors.

This also is referring to my post.

Originally Posted by OBW

You confuse disagreement on politics with disagreement on the actual execution of the job. The speaking out against Trump is not about his political positions. It is about his lies and demeanor. And they are too numerous.

This is now referring to Ohio

Explain why you were so vague? What was the point for deleting every attribution and confusing posts by me and Ohio?

[ZNPaaneah]

Trump's new acting attorney general already has a plan to stop Mueller probe

Time for Mueller to play his cards.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Trump's new acting attorney general already has a plan to stop Mueller probe

Time for Mueller to play his cards.

More like a house of cards.

Actually, if I heard correctly, Muller still reports to Rosenstein, but Rosenstein now reports to Whitaker.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Try rechecking, the first quote was from me, and then you removed the names from every one of the quotes. The other quotes were from Ohio. Yet your post did not in any way indicate you were responding to two different people.

ZNP, if you prefer, I'll take the credit, or the blame, for all of the quotes.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

More like a house of cards.

Actually, if I heard correctly, Muller still reports to Rosenstein, but Rosenstein now reports to Whitaker.

I think the Senate needs to confirm the appointment before any real action can be taken against Rosenstein. Likewise, Mueller still has his documentation authorizing his investigation and my understanding is that cannot be retracted without paper documentation that would then go public. Nor does Whitaker have the authority to put a stop to it until the Senate ratifies him. And, unfortunately for Trump, the recently elected Senators are not able to do that yet, so any outgoing Senators may not feel beholden to Trump. Therefore Trump has made it very clear to Mueller he has to play his cards now, perhaps he has a month or even two, but once the new Senate is in Whitaker gets confirmed and the plug is pulled on the investigation. Once again, it is just like a blitz in football, by rushing the quarterback you try to force a mistake, but if the quarterback is good, or if he is ready for you, then you get burned.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ZNP, if you prefer, I'll take the credit, or the blame, for all of the quotes.

What I don't understand with my lame brain is why he mixed a quote from me, a number of quotes from you and then concluded with a quote from me, removed every name from every quote, and then referred to each one in the vague term of "you". It comes across as intentionally deceptive. No one else does that, everyone else simply quotes a post and responds to it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Since the vice president’s adversarial speech on October 4, global equities have shed some $3.8 trillion in value, with the S&P 500 losing some $2.1 trillion.

This battle is for real and takes some real chutzpah on Trump's part, every other President prior to him was cowardly when it came to China.

One threat is the 1.2 trillion debt they have of ours. I think it would be idiotic for China to play that card. If they do they could send us into a recession, stagflation, or even worse. But whatever they do would cause a much more severe and long lasting impact to their own economy. That could have a much more dire impact on China.

As long as this plays out it will have a negative impact on our economy, but the impact on China's economy will be far worse and far more important. 80% of China is third world peasants holding onto a life raft of first world growth. That growth stops, they sink. On the other hand, if China makes some concessions towards fair trade it will have a huge positive impact on our economy and only a mildly negative impact on their growth.

Trump is taking the lead here and I imagine every other world leader is thrilled that he is.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think the Senate needs to confirm the appointment before any real action can be taken against Rosenstein. Likewise, Mueller still has his documentation authorizing his investigation and my understanding is that cannot be retracted without paper documentation that would then go public. Nor does Whitaker have the authority to put a stop to it until the Senate ratifies him. And, unfortunately for Trump, the recently elected Senators are not able to do that yet, so any outgoing Senators may not feel beholden to Trump. Therefore Trump has made it very clear to Mueller he has to play his cards now, perhaps he has a month or even two, but once the new Senate is in Whitaker gets confirmed and the plug is pulled on the investigation. Once again, it is just like a blitz in football, by rushing the quarterback you try to force a mistake, but if the quarterback is good, or if he is ready for you, then you get burned.

Do you really think that Muller has been holding out with evidence of collusion or obstruction of justice, just waiting for an opportunity to tell the American people? And this secret info has never been leaked to the Press? Seriously?

Whitaker will not fire Muller, rather put some limits on him. Muller had an assignment to do, and a responsibility to complete it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What I don't understand with my lame brain is why he mixed a quote from me, a number of quotes from you and then concluded with a quote from me, removed every name from every quote, and then referred to each one in the vague term of "you". It comes across as intentionally deceptive. No one else does that, everyone else simply quotes a post and responds to it.

When I first saw that post, I figured it would take hours to unravel the mess, so I just left it alone.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Do you really think that Muller has been holding out with evidence of collusion or obstruction of justice, just waiting for an opportunity to tell the American people? And this secret info has never been leaked to the Press? Seriously?

Whitaker will not fire Muller, rather put some limits on him. Muller had an assignment to do, and a responsibility to complete it.

At the moment, based on what has been revealed I would compare what is happening today with what happened with Andrew Johnson. That was a purely political impeachment. If the Democrats pull that it will be total grandstanding.

That said Mueller has indicted quite a few people and has flipped several who are in the know. Therefore if there is anything criminal I think he knows about it now and has enough evidence for a grand jury.

I am completely against having this investigation take 4 years and think he has had enough time to have uncovered something. If not, it is time to put an end to it. A year ago I thought people were unreasonable to think he would have completed it already, but in my opinion 2 years is enough time.

Collusion -- I think the odds are around 20%, which means 80% I think he is innocent of that.

Obstruction of justice -- I think he has gone as close to the line as he can, this is his MO, so I think it is 50/50 that they have something prosecutable on that front.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When I first saw that post, I figured it would take hours to unravel the mess, so I just left it alone.

And then his response is evasive. Saying he did not attribute the quotes does not answer any of my questions, that was my complaint, he put quotes in from different posts and different posters without attributing them and as a result it was very confusing who "you" was referring to. Then, like you said that made it very difficult to respond to.

Think about how difficult it was to respond to, he quoted several of my posts, referred to me with the vague "you" but when I respond to his post he says I'm a "lame brain" because he hadn't referred to me. So what does that mean, no one can respond?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

At the moment, based on what has been revealed I would compare what is happening today with what happened with Andrew Johnson. That was a purely political impeachment. If the Democrats pull that it will be total grandstanding.

That said Mueller has indicted quite a few people and has flipped several who are in the know. Therefore if there is anything criminal I think he knows about it now and has enough evidence for a grand jury.

I am completely against having this investigation take 4 years and think he has had enough time to have uncovered something. If not, it is time to put an end to it. A year ago I thought people were unreasonable to think he would have completed it already, but in my opinion 2 years is enough time.

Collusion -- I think the odds are around 20%, which means 80% I think he is innocent of that.

Obstruction of justice -- I think he has gone as close to the line as he can, this is his MO, so I think it is 50/50 that they have something prosecutable on that front.

The media has basically given up on these two charges, and has put their hope in finding some rotten business transaction. They would have no problem going back 36 years, they have proven that. They would also take Junior's business history too. According to the prevailing "wisdom," they are rich conservatives, they must be crooks.

Have you noticed that both General Flynn and George Papadopoulos have flawed plea deals? In both cases the Muller team withheld exculpatory evidence. They have a history of doing this, and some of his team should have been disbarred decades ago. The "victims" here agreed to plea deals only after bully prosecutors threatened to go after family members also. This explains why they have not been sentenced, and hopefully never will.

Real justice eh? When you think of Muller and Weismann, think of Mobster Whitey Bulger, Enron, and Arthur Anderson.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

And then his response is evasive. Saying he did not attribute the quotes does not answer any of my questions, that was my complaint, he put quotes in from different posts and different posters without attributing them and as a result it was very confusing who "you" was referring to. Then, like you said that made it very difficult to respond to.

Think about how difficult it was to respond to, he quoted several of my posts, referred to me with the vague "you" but when I respond to his post he says I'm a "lame brain" because he hadn't referred to me. So what does that mean, no one can respond?

He is trying to come out of retirement, so we should probably give him a pass.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When you think of Muller and Weismann, think of Mobster Whitey Bulger, Enron, and Arthur Anderson.

I don't know Mueller or Trump. But from what I can see, and comparing their history, I'd put Mueller's character up against Trump's any day of the week.

Neither qualify for sainthood, but who's less likely to qualify?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know Mueller or Trump. But from what I can see, and comparing their history, I'd put Mueller's character up against Trump's any day of the week.

Neither qualify for sainthood, but who's less likely to qualify?

Perhaps you should look into the Muller and Weinstein team a little more closely.

Many people died while Muller used Whitey as an informant. Even FBI agents went to prison.

Innocent people were sent to jail under these guys, costing taxpayers millions.

They destroyed Arthur Anderson Accounting, causing tens of thousands to lose their jobs and fortunes.

But your nasty Trump hatred, however, covers a multitude of these sins.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you noticed that both General Flynn and George Papadopoulos have flawed plea deals?

I have noticed a lot of things:

1. Russia was hacking our election -- a crime

2. Russians met with the Trump team

3. Trump said "Russia if you are listening..."

They had the means, the motive, opportunity and a crime was committed. The reason I give them a 1 in 5 chance of indicting him is because this is a very difficult crime to convict someone of, and he can always have someone else take the fall.

I have also noticed

1. Trump likes dictators

2. Trump doesn't say a bad word about Putin even though he is very tough on virtually everyone else in the world.

3. It seems that his advisors have to do everything in their power to prevent him from obstructing justice in a blatant fashion.

4. Testimony of Comey

5. His transparent use of pardons.

6. The number of indictments of the people working for him.

That is why I give a much higher chance for obstruction, which is a much easier crime to convict someone for.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

2. Russians met with the Trump team

Is this a joke? Can you distinguish between a Russian and the Russian government? Don't you have Russian heritage? If you ran into Donald Junior, does that qualify as "meeting with the Russians."

This Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, came to discuss adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act. Did you know that she met with Democratic operatives before and after Trump Tower?

It was all part of the hoax. Read Gregg Jarrett's book:

The Russia Hoax: The Illicit Scheme to Clear Hillary Clinton and Frame Donald Trump

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Is this a joke? Can you distinguish between a Russian and the Russian government? Don't you have Russian heritage? If you ran into Donald Junior, does that qualify as "meeting with the Russians."

This Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, came to discuss adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act. Did you know that she met with Democratic operatives before and after Trump Tower?

It was all part of the hoax. Read Gregg Jarrett's book:

The Russia Hoax: The Illicit Scheme to Clear Hillary Clinton and Frame Donald Trump

Chill out. They had the means to collude if they chose to. That is all this means. They don't have an "airtight alibi". If they did this would have been over 2 years ago.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Is this a joke? Can you distinguish between a Russian and the Russian government? Don't you have Russian heritage? If you ran into Donald Junior, does that qualify as "meeting with the Russians."

This Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, came to discuss adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act. Did you know that she met with Democratic operatives before and after Trump Tower?

It was all part of the hoax. Read Gregg Jarrett's book:

The Russia Hoax: The Illicit Scheme to Clear Hillary Clinton and Frame Donald Trump

Oh! Those deep state conspiracies. Methinks your long years in the local church has made you an easy mark.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The chief issue of this divide is abortion, the murder of the unborn. Apparently you are now convinced that God is not so concerned about the unborn life as the conservatives are.

Did you ever wonder why God commanded the Israelites to kill the Canaanites noted for their human / child sacrifice? Same goes for the Catholic Spaniard Cortez and the Incas who practiced the same?

Nobody is saying that God endorses Republican policies exclusively, every Republican candidate, or "every word that proceedeth forth from the tweet of Trump," but He has commanded us to "Choose Life, that you and your children may live." (Deut 30.19)

Do you also believe that God had no interest in Trump's decision to move our Embassy to Jerusalem? No interest in unwavering Republican support for Israel going back decades?

Ya know what? I'm going to assume that your concern for the unborn originates from your sense of compassion and give you an "amen."

But, now you're going to use that as basis for justifying genocide? Really bro? You and the almighty omniscient God, the very Creator of the Canaanites can't come up with a better Corrective Action Plan than that?

And you even go extra-biblical and exonerate your Catholic brother Cortez the Killer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-b76yiqO1E That was gratuitously partisan even for a Fundamentalist.

Good that you choose life for yourself and your children. But, to judge everyone else? ...wise to leave that to God the judge of the living and the dead. Judge not lest ye be judged said Jesus. Isn't he supposedly your "Lord"?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh! Those deep state conspiracies. Methinks your long years in the local church has made you an easy mark.

But Russian collusion is not a conspiracy theory?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Ya know what? I'm going to assume that your concern for the unborn originates from your sense of compassion and give you an "amen."

But, now you're going to use that as basis for justifying genocide? Really bro? You and the almighty omniscient God, the very Creator of the Canaanites can't come up with a better Corrective Action Plan than that?

And you even go extra-biblical and exonerate your Catholic brother Cortez the Killer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-b76yiqO1E That was gratuitously partisan even for a Fundamentalist.

Good that you choose life for yourself and your children. But, to judge everyone else? ...wise to leave that to God the judge of the living and the dead. Judge not lest ye be judged said Jesus. Isn't he supposedly your "Lord"?

What good is choosing life if you do nothing when the most innocent are being slaughtered?

[awareness]

Politics and the Church was on fire before the midterm. Now it seems to have the midterm blues.

Maybe it's the scary caravan, the scaryvan. I hear the Thousands Oaks shooter was in it ... and the pipe bomber came out of it ... and the Tree of Life killer was a member of it. I guess that's why it's so scary.

[recoveringCK]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What good is choosing life if you do nothing when the most innocent are being slaughtered?

Everyone who got life out of WL LC raise your right hand.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Politics and the Church was on fire before the midterm. Now it seems to have the midterm blues.

Maybe it's the scary caravan, the scaryvan. I hear the Thousands Oaks shooter was in it ... and the pipe bomber came out of it ... and the Tree of Life killer was a member of it. I guess that's why it's so scary.

Given that the Dems were running against Caligula they should have done better.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What good is choosing life if you do nothing when the most innocent are being slaughtered?

You want to use your right to choose to take away the right of women to choose.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Everyone who got life out of WL LC raise your right hand.

I'm still alive so I didn't get death out of it although they suggested that I might if I left.

[zeek]

If elected to the U.S. Senate, former U.S. Attorney Matt Whitaker says he would only support federal judges who have a Biblical view, and specifically a New Testament view, of justice. "If they have a secular world view, then I'm going to be very concerned about how they judge," Whitaker said at an April 25, 2014, Family Leader debate. Who does this guy think he is-- Mr. Ohio?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

If elected to the U.S. Senate, former U.S. Attorney Matt Whitaker says he would only support federal judges who have a Biblical view, and specifically a New Testament view, of justice. "If they have a secular world view, then I'm going to be very concerned about how they judge," Whitaker said at an April 25, 2014, Family Leader debate. Who does this guy think he is-- Mr. Ohio?

Sounds like Whitaker and I would be great friends!

I'm sorry if you find a "Biblical View" so dangerous.

If Trump was as evil as you continually portray, shouldn't he be selecting those for his cabinet who are not "principled" in any way.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You want to use your right to choose to take away the right of women to choose.

I believe in women's rights. There is nothing that they should not be permitted to do, including what they want with their own bodies.

That's the key -- their "own" bodies. The unborn have their own bodies too, and women (or others) do not have the right to take the life of the unborn from them.

I find it impossible to believe that any genuine Christian could support the murder of the unborn in the name of women's "rights."

Tom Perez, the DNC Chair, said the Democratic Party would never support a candidate that does not endorse abortion. This is why I and many other Christians could never endorse a Democrat.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Everyone who got life out of WL LC raise your right hand.

With left hand on the Bible ... like in court ... don't perjure yourself. Be careful, they'll sue you if you say you got death out of WL LC.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Given that the Dems were running against Caligula they should have done better.

The Blues give me the blues. But at least they've recovered a check in what's suppose to be checks and balances in our three equal branches of government.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sounds like Whitaker and I would be great friends!

I'm sorry if you find a "Biblical View" so dangerous.

If Trump was as evil as you continually portray, shouldn't he be selecting those for his cabinet who are not "principled" in any way.

Who said anything about principles? Low-lifes Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, and Jimmy Swaggart have "Biblical perspectives."

From what I read, Whitaker was a paid advisory board member for World Patent Marketing a company with a history of fraud, deceiving customers and suppressing complaints about them using threats, intimidation, and gag clauses. When frustrated consumers tried to get their money back, it was Whitaker's job to threaten them as a former federal prosecutor. Sounds like Trump's kinda guy.

Whitaker obviously got the job cuz he wrote an opinion column for CNN titled "Mueller's Investigation of Trump is Going Too Far." He stated that Mueller's investigation is a “lynch mob”, that it should be limited and should not probe into Trump's finances. Clearly he was courting Trump for the job and his opinion was music to Trump's ears. If you had a law degree it could have been you.

Pathological liar Trump has already gone from saying on Fox & Friends "I can tell you Matt Whitaker’s a great guy. I mean, I know Matt Whitaker" to repeatedly denying that he knows him yesterday. Even racist Jeff Sessions was too principled for Trump so he had to put in subservient loyalist attack dog.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Everyone who got life out of WL LC raise your right hand.

does this count as raising your hand?

I would not call it WL LC, but rather my time in the church. I do not consider WL to be a major influence in my church life experience. I did the math a few years earlier which led to severe reprimands by UntoHim, but I stick to that calculation, WL was less than 5% of my church life experience.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Who said anything about principles? Low-lifes Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, and Jimmy Swaggart have "Biblical perspectives."

From what I read, Whitaker was a paid advisory board member for World Patent Marketing a company with a history of fraud, deceiving customers and suppressing complaints about them using threats, intimidation, and gag clauses. When frustrated consumers tried to get their money back, it was Whitaker's job to threaten them as a former federal prosecutor. Sounds like Trump's kinda guy.

Whitaker obviously got the job cuz he wrote an opinion column for CNN titled "Mueller's Investigation of Trump is Going Too Far." He stated that Mueller's investigation is a “lynch mob”, that it should be limited and should not probe into Trump's finances. Clearly he was courting Trump for the job and his opinion was music to Trump's ears. If you had a law degree it could have been you.

Pathological liar Trump has already gone from saying on Fox & Friends "I can tell you Matt Whitaker’s a great guy. I mean, I know Matt Whitaker" to repeatedly denying that he knows him yesterday. Even racist Jeff Sessions was too principled for Trump so he had to put in subservient loyalist attack dog.

Pathetic, sickening, dishonest, spiteful zeek at his best spewing venom on every Christian he knows.

[UntoHim]

This is getting too personal and too chippy....even for Alt Views. Tone it down or I'll put a password back on this sub forum. I know most of you fellows and I bet you wouldn't be so personal and aggressive face to face. I understand that these are pretty explosive things you're getting in to, but I think some of the dialogue is getting too heated, too personal and just downright mean-spirited.

Take a break if you must. Change the subject if you must.

Your brother who is (trying desperately to be) unto Him.
-

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Pathetic, sickening, dishonest, spiteful zeek at his best spewing venom on every Christian he knows.

I know, Whitaker is such an upstanding Christian.

[ZNPaaneah]

It is time to awake, arise or be forever fall'n

[ZNPaaneah]

326 confirmed and probable cases, resulting in 201 deaths.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It is time to awake, arise or be forever fall'n

Be woke ....

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Pathetic, sickening, dishonest, spiteful zeek at his best spewing venom on every Christian he knows.

Just like Trump, you resort to ad hominem attacks because you can't refute the facts.

[awareness]

TRUMP WILL START THE END OF THE WORLD, CLAIM EVANGELICALS WHO SUPPORT HIM

“What kick-starts the end times into motion is Israel’s political boundaries being reestablished to what God promised the Israelites according to the Bible,”

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-will-...d-times-779643

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

TRUMP WILL START THE END OF THE WORLD, CLAIM EVANGELICALS WHO SUPPORT HIM

“What kick-starts the end times into motion is Israel’s political boundaries being reestablished to what God promised the Israelites according to the Bible,”

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-will-...d-times-779643

I read through the entire article and couldn't find a single quote that supports the provocative title. Can you identify the quote they are referring to where Evangelicals claim Trump will start the end of the world?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I read through the entire article and couldn't find a single quote that supports the provocative title. Can you identify the quote they are referring to where Evangelicals claim Trump will start the end of the world?

Well it is Newsweek. I thought it was a good article. And of course Trump isn't ringing in the end of days. Christians that believe that are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Glad to see you're not one of them.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Well it is Newsweek. I thought it was a good article. And of course Trump isn't ringing in the end of days. Christians that believe that are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Glad to see you're not one of them.

The quotes seemed to be from reputable people and the journalist also appeared reputable. I am wondering if the editorial dept made the title, which if I was the journalist I would be very upset about since it makes her look like she works for the National Enquirer.

[ZNPaaneah]

People are misunderstanding what Trump is saying when he says "there is no reason" for these wildfires in California. Ever since issuing the order that climate change is not to be referenced in government documents there is now "no reason" given in the briefings he is seeing for these wildfires.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

People are misunderstanding what Trump is saying when he says "there is no reason" for these wildfires in California. Ever since issuing the order that climate change is not to be referenced in government documents there is now "no reason" given in the briefings he is seeing for these wildfires.

But to pull funding from them (btw, lots of the forests are federal lands) is like pulling funding from the hurricane center for not stopping hurricanes.

The fires are human linked natural disasters -- dry conditions, winds, camp fires, electric failures ; just like climate change ... and these deadly hurricanes.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

But to pull funding from them (btw, lots of the forests are federal lands) is like pulling funding from the hurricane center for not stopping hurricanes.

The fires are human linked natural disasters -- dry conditions, winds, camp fires, electric failures ; just like climate change ... and these deadly hurricanes.

When a boat is sinking you try to pump water out, if that is not working, then you seal off the area that is flooding and hope that works. Trump is simply being transparent, we are moving from the "pumping water out" stage to the "sealing them off and cutting off payment" stage. All the while pretending that the ship is not sinking.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Explain why you were so vague? What was the point for deleting every attribution and confusing posts by me and Ohio?

You fail to note that I did not specifically argue that you or Ohio were anything. All of the things the two of you passed on are essentially found in the public media, mostly in Republican/conservative rhetoric, therefore nothing truly new for either of you.

And I spoke to the content of the items I quoted. It was easier to retain a "you" narrative than trying to reformat into an isolated comment on the content only. If you think that all of it was pointed at you because one or two of the quotes came from one of your posts, then get over yourself. There was nothing vague about the posts quoted or the response supplied.

"You" is easily anyone who thinks that nit-picking over rules, disparaging the "others" that might actually make it to the border to claim asylum (while the majority of true danger comes from angry white males and other second-or-beyond residents/citizens), and/or buying any of the bald-faced lies that spew forth from the well of the mouth of Trump, is more important than dealing with all of the facts and truth that is not convenient to the religion of American exceptionalism and every effort being made to make it more "exceptional."

The world sees that we are exceptional. Exceptionally stupid to place such an incompetent person in charge of the storehouse. Exceptionally blind to think vilifying the nature of poor civilians seeking a better life is evidence of our love for our neighbor.

And so on. That some churches — Like First Baptist Dallas — feel compelled to worship at the altar of a flag of red, white, and blue and sing religious songs about the country shows how lost the conservative right has become. I am proud to have a flag outside my house on many days. But I do not want one included as part of my worship to God. He is a jealous God and the flag is an idol in a house of worship.

It is so hard to understand how Bill Clinton could be so vilified when he as a professed Christian, and Baptist, at least tried to hide the shame of his failures of moral character while we praise an rally around someone who is openly worse — and proud of it — and herald him as our preferred leader over so many much more qualified candidates.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The chief issue of this divide is abortion, the murder of the unborn. Apparently you are now convinced that God is not so concerned about the unborn life as the conservatives are.

The last time I checked, the kingdom of God was not in the business of abortions. That is in the kingdom of the world.

While God may have used Israel to deal with the sins of the Canaanintes, most of which was about them refusing to even acknowledge God which resulting in all those other sins, the task of the church is not to bring God's justice on anyone outside of the household of faith (and even then the justice generally results only in their expulsion from our fellowship, not from citizenship of the worldly kingdom in which we live), or in the taking of their life. Our charge is to live the life of righteousness that we were originally created for. And in doing that to attempt to bring more people into the nation-in-exile which is the kingdom of God.

All of this railing over abortion that is occurring in the world is not furthering our actual charge. And no matter how much more important you think certain sins are v others (I do not disagree), their eradication through marriage of the church with the government of the world is absolutely NOT an option. It is as bad as anything that the RCC ever did in its worst times. It associates us with the immorality of Trump. I refuse to have any such association. No matter how nice it would be to end all abortion, union with the world is not the way.

In any case, it is time to remember that we should not fear. Not fear the liberals. Not fear the caravan. Not fear healthcare that in any way involves the government.

Fear Not.

I am not saying to just roll over. But to the extent that you want to shape how any of that happens, get involved in the process. Don't just hope that a bully can force it upon us (or them). That would be truly unexceptional.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What I don't understand with my lame brain is why he mixed a quote from me, a number of quotes from you and then concluded with a quote from me, removed every name from every quote, and then referred to each one in the vague term of "you". It comes across as intentionally deceptive. No one else does that, everyone else simply quotes a post and responds to it.

Well, you said it well.

I was responding to each of specific points found in multiple posts, not trying to make some direct assault on any person.It was each point, individually, the point that was being argued against, not the person.

But I guess your confusion is understandable.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

So you don't think he should have become more concerned about Trump than those other presidents? Cuz I think he should be. I think Trump's divisiveness, nativism, fear-mongering and demagoguery surpasses all those previous guys that I mentioned. Thus the cult of personality around him is more dangerous.

My opinion is that the US is on a path that is not sustainable.

1. We have a govt run by Corporations, particularly Big Oil, which has been willing to get us involved in wars that are not truly about self defense, all with the result that we have run up huge national debts, damaged our reputation around the world, while our leaders spew lies. When you ignore LBJ's fraud to get elected, then it isn't a big leap to see this man is VP who will do anything to get power, signaling a green light to the CIA to go ahead and remove JFK. If you weren't alarmed when we went full boar into Vietnam to develop our weapons manufacturing. IF you weren't alarmed then, what can anyone say, provoking Iraq to start the Gulf war is not a big leap, 911 is predictable, lying about WMD, just par for the course. Trillion dollar wars for oil, doesn't bother you? That all preceded Trump.

Why oh why would would anyone think Trump could get away with some of his most outlandish statements. Perhaps because no one cared about lies, fraud, assassinations, and trillion dollar wars up to this point.

Hmm, Let's see ...

June 12 1994 — OJ Simpson was arrested for the murder of his wife. The most covered crime in American history, 139 days on TV, front page of LA Times for 300 days, covered by 2,237 news outlets. The news media spent $50 billion covering it. Cost to California taxpayers — approximately $10 million. The number of witnesses who died or disappeared — 0.

Likewise with Jon Benet Ramsey. ABC, NBC and CBS did 84 featured stories on this case. The number of witnesses who died or disappeared — 0.

Dec 19, 1998 — Bill Clinton was impeached. Cost to US taxpayers — $7 million, cost by media covering it, $69 million. The number of witnesses who died or disappeared — 0.

Nov 22, 1963 — JFK assassinated. Most horrific assassination in our history and the most dramatic change in national policy. Number of days investigated in public by the media or government — 0. The amount of money spent by the media to investigate it? $8,000. The amount of money paid by main stream media and the government to have it not investigated — $18 billion. The number of witnesses who died or disappeared — 78. The number of American soldiers killed in the fake wars following JFK’s death — 68,750. The number of innocent Vietnamese, Iraqis and others killed 3.5 million. The cost for these fake wars — $4.5+ trillion.

But you say Trump is more dangerous! Wow! Tell me more.

The ultimate goal of propaganda is you take everything for granted and stop asking questions. By that measure Trump has been a total failure, instead of lulling everyone to sleep everyone is stirred up to vote and take part in what is going on. That is why I see him as much less insidious than what took place after JFK was assassinated.

By contrast George Bush was an aw shucks kind of guy, course his brother ran security for 2 of the aircraft used on 911, both of the twin towers, and Dulles Int airport where two of the planes took off from. But hey, conspiracy theories are for lunatics even though the CIA is the a huge organization that by definition all of their jobs are conspiracies. The steel from the building was the evidence, FBI and Homeland security were not allowed to view the evidence instead it was sent to China and destroyed. Tampering and destroying evidence in a murder investigation is a federal crime, but again, hey you are a lunatic for saying anything. Jet fuel burns at 800 degrees F, and steel doesn't hit critical temperature until 2,000 degrees. Besides the hottest temperature achieved in the twin towers was 10 days after the collapse, when the fire department measured temperatures in excess of 2,000 degrees even though jet fuel burns off in 15 minutes, but you know, enough already. The only reasonable explanation for these temperatures is thermite, an explosive used in demolition of steel frame buildings. And of course, none of that explains why building 7 collapsed, in seconds, into its own foundation, symmetrically, at 5 pm, without ever being hit by an airplane. But this is idiotic, why would anyone do this? (Ignoring Larry Silversteins quote on PBS that he gave the order to "pull it" ordering a controlled demolition of the building.) I mean other than getting an excuse for a trillion dollar war into the Middle East, securing the largest oil field and gas field that can be developed outside of the US, and completely revamping our military for drones and robots with a blank check from Congress. Can anyone really believe a nice guy like George Bush who paints pictures could do such a thing? We all know Dick Cheney could, I guess the real question is could someone do this without George knowing? But what would Larry Silverstein's motive be to destroy his own buildings? He had bought this property just a few months earlier for 3+ billion dollars and then got 5+ billion dollars in the insurance payout.

I think Zeek prefers liars that make him feel comfortable, hide the lies better so that he can pretend he isn't agreeing to be lied to, whereas Trump is so transparent and obvious you feel "What, does this guy think I'm an idiot!" Well, yeah.

[ZNPaaneah]

You fail to note that I did not specifically argue that you or Ohio were anything. All of the things the two of you passed on are essentially found in the public media, mostly in Republican/conservative rhetoric, therefore nothing truly new for either of you.

Noted

And I spoke to the content of the items I quoted. It was easier to retain a "you" narrative than trying to reformat

I don't see how this is easier.

Christians that believe that are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

You are being very judgmental.

TRUMP WILL START THE END OF THE WORLD

Now who is being cuckoo?

But, now you're going to use that as basis for justifying genocide?

Get over yourself, you have gone off the deep end.

The world sees that we are exceptional. Exceptionally stupid to place such an incompetent person in charge of the storehouse.

Please speak for yourself.

If you think that all of it was pointed at you because one or two of the quotes came from one of your posts, then get over yourself.

Let's hope no one learns from you.

[awareness]

Dozens of black Israelites who claim they - an not Jews - are the true descendants of the biblical Hebrews descend on Capitol Hill for a protest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...itol-Hill.html

[awareness]

GOP Jesus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=SZ2L-R8NgrA

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think Zeek prefers liars that make him feel comfortable, hide the lies better so that he can pretend he isn't agreeing to be lied to, whereas Trump is so transparent and obvious you feel "What, does this guy think I'm an idiot!" Well, yeah.

One last comment. Consider the miracle on the Hudson. In 24 minutes you saw what Americans, doing their jobs, whether the pilot, or the stewardesses, or ferry boat captains, or coast guard, etc. can do. That is not some extraordinary action, that is in fact the level of expertise of your typical Americans in an emergency. They reacted in less than 5 minutes. In that time the plane crashed and three ferries were on location or less than a minute away. It took a total of 24 minutes to save everyone and get them to land safely including several divers from helicopters rescuing people who tried to swim.

Now compare that level of professionalism in an emergency by close to 150 people to the incredible ineptness exhibited in the JFK investigation and the 911 investigation. Anyone who examines these two investigations and compares it to standard protocols and procedures will be shocked at the astounding violations, ineptness, and overall poor behavior by all involved.

[ZNPaaneah]

There has been a deliberate attempt to portray voter fraud as a statistically insignificant factor. However, they have been very deceptive in their use of numbers.

Let's break it down.

In this last election we had 435 congressmen elected, 35 senators and 35 governors. That is slightly over 500 key officials elected. Of those we have 5 very close races. Voter fraud does not take place in elections that are not close, it would be too obvious. So the fact that it doesn't take place in 99% of elections is irrelevant, the issue is if it is taking place in the 1% that are close. No one doubts that these 5 seats are really big. They could give the Democrats a much stronger hold on the house and cut the Republicans lead in the senate to razor thin margins.

Second, a close election means that 0.25% of the vote can make the difference. So then, if 0.001% of the total vote is fraudulent, that would be enough to swing these 5 very close elections. You shouldn't compare the number of fraudulent votes to the total cast, but rather to 1% of the total cast. Then in those elections since they are close you only need 1% of those votes cast to swing them. So really, you should compare the number of fraudulent votes to 1% of 1% or 0.01% of the total votes cast.

However, the pundits are not pointing this out.

Second, they are limiting the discussion to the votes that have been "proven" to be fraudulent. Once again, a very misleading number, and certainly far less than the number of votes "estimated" to be fraudulent. The low number of votes proven to be fraudulent could simply be because the victors are not interested in having an investigation.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

My opinion is that the US is on a path that is not sustainable.

1. We have a govt run by Corporations, particularly Big Oil, which has been willing to get us involved in wars that are not truly about self defense, all with the result that we have run up huge national debts, damaged our reputation around the world, while our leaders spew lies. Trillion dollar wars for oil, doesn't bother you? That all preceded Trump.

Why oh why would would anyone think Trump could get away with some of his most outlandish statements. Perhaps because no one cared about lies, fraud, assassinations, and trillion dollar wars up to this point.

Hmm, Let's see ...

List of conspiracy theories

I think Zeek prefers liars that make him feel comfortable, hide the lies better so that he can pretend he isn't agreeing to be lied to, whereas Trump is so transparent and obvious you feel "What, does this guy think I'm an idiot!" Well, yeah.

I appreciate your perspective. Like too many today, you've lost faith the institutions of free society.

The question is whether the future belongs to the new populists like Donald Trump or to the free societies that began to be built in the 18th century and that have gradually developed and strengthened—with many imperfections and hypocrisies and backsliding—in the 250 years since?

During the Cold War the most important challenges to free societies came from Communism. More recently the most important challenges came from Islamic extremists.

Today, the greatest challenge comes from the "populists". This challenge comes from within. Will the free societies be able to able to survive and thrive against the threat of populism that seeks to divide and destroy it?

The new populism is a scam and a lie that exploits anger and fear to gain power. It has no care for the people it supposedly champions and no respect for them. It will deliver nothing—not only because its leaders are crooks, but because they have no plans except to pad their own pockets.

Since the economic crisis of 2008 and the euro-currency crisis that began in 2010, the so-called populists have won election after election in this country and in Europe. Countries that formerly seemed secure against populism, like Germany, are trending in ominous directions.

But hope is not lost. With the midterm elections, the American electorate set a limit: It looks like the tide is beginning to turn.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I appreciate your perspective. Like too many today, you've lost faith the institutions of free society.

disagree. There will always be liars, cheats, and scam artists. What we need are leaders like TR that can rise above that.

Originally Posted by zeek

The question is whether the future belongs to the new populists like Donald Trump or to the free societies that began to be built in the 18th century and that have gradually developed and strengthened—with many imperfections and hypocrisies and backsliding—in the 250 years since?

Don't agree that this is the question. The question to me is how can a free society survive when they have this huge cancer of the CIA growing in their midst with secret budgets, secret programs, and they laugh at elections and who is "in power".

Originally Posted by zeek

During the Cold War the most important challenges to free societies came from Communism. More recently the most important challenges came from Islamic extremists.

disagree, that is ridiculous. Communism never threatened free societies, that was simply a scam used to scare people to support flawed policies. Likewise with the new bogeyman, Islamic Extremists. These people are responding to atrocities committed by these evil entities -- CIA, Military industrial complex, Big Oil. They are the cause, Islamic extremists are simply the symptom.

Originally Posted by zeek

Today, the greatest challenge comes from the "populists". This challenge comes from within. Will the free societies be able to able to survive and thrive against the threat of populism that seeks to divide and destroy it?

Disagree that this is where the greatest threat is from. Greatest threat is from the disinformation campaigns run by this huge intelligence agencies (Russia, China and the US) and by corporations.

Originally Posted by zeek

The new populism is a scam and a lie that exploits anger and fear to gain power. It has no care for the people it supposedly champions and no respect for them. It will deliver nothing—not only because its leaders are crooks, but because they have no plans except to pad their own pockets.

Anger is an excellent motivator, hence all politicians have used it. Nothing new here. The "abuses" perpetrated by Trump are trivial compared to the abuses perpetrated by the Continental congress. Things are getting better, not worse.

Originally Posted by zeek

Since the economic crisis of 2008 and the euro-currency crisis that began in 2010, the so-called populists have won election after election in this country and in Europe. Countries that formerly seemed secure against populism, like Germany, are trending in ominous directions.

But hope is not lost. With the midterm elections, the American electorate set a limit: It looks like the tide is beginning to turn.

That's funny. You think a Democratic congress will have any influence at all? You seriously think that is a harbinger of the tide beginning to turn?

Climate change is impacting the world. It will be a drag on the Economy and there will be a growing number of climate refugees, growing exponentially year after year. Gang violence in these countries is not the cause, it is a symptom of economic and political collapse.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

disagree. There will always be liars, cheats, and scam artists. What we need are leaders like TR that can rise above that.



Don't agree that this is the question. The question to me is how can a free society survive when they have this huge cancer of the CIA growing in their midst with secret budgets, secret programs, and they laugh at elections and who is "in power".



disagree, that is ridiculous. Communism never threatened free societies, that was simply a scam used to scare people to support flawed policies. Likewise with the new bogeyman, Islamic Extremists. These people are responding to atrocities committed by these evil entities -- CIA, Military industrial complex, Big Oil. They are the cause, Islamic extremists are simply the symptom.



Disagree that this is where the greatest threat is from. Greatest threat is from the disinformation campaigns run by this huge intelligence agencies (Russia, China and the US) and by corporations.



Anger is an excellent motivator, hence all politicians have used it. Nothing new here. The "abuses" perpetrated by Trump are trivial compared to the abuses perpetrated by the Continental congress. Things are getting better, not worse.



That's funny. You think a Democratic congress will have any influence at all? You seriously think that is a harbinger of the tide beginning to turn?

Climate change is impacting the world. It will be a drag on the Economy and there will be a growing number of climate refugees, growing exponentially year after year. Gang violence in these countries is not the cause, it is a symptom of economic and political collapse.

I understand. You're looking forward to the Apocalypse. The idea that a few good people can turn the situation around seems pretty ludicrous to you. The only thing I can say is that the biggest problems we have are the ones we've caused as humans. So perhaps if it's not too late we can turn the situation around.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I understand. You're looking forward to the Apocalypse. The idea that a few good people can turn the situation around seems pretty ludicrous to you. The only thing I can say is that the biggest problems we have are the ones we've caused as humans. So perhaps if it's not too late we can turn the situation around.

Not what I said or what I meant.

I think that if you look back at human history there has been a tremendous improvement in 6,000 years, in 2,000 years, even in 200 years. The idea that Trump is some kind of horrible digression is ridiculous.

But I do feel it is ridiculous to think the US government led by the Democrats are going to legislate us out of the catastrophe that Climate change is. Look at what happened to Puerto Rico from Maria. That is what will be happening in Mainland US in the next 10 years.

Whenever you see people in these disaster zones they talk about rebuilding. That is denial.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

GOP Jesus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=SZ2L-R8NgrA

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34112.pdf

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34112.pdf

Have you noticed that before the midterms all we heard about was that scary caravan. But not after the midterms.

Also, where's that Nov. 1 middle class tax cut Trump promised? Don't hear about that any more either.

[awareness]

I guess I've been quite prescient. According to George Conway, at least :

George Conway: Republican Party has become a 'personality cult' under Trump

https://www.yahoo.com/news/george-co...130234835.html

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Not what I said or what I meant.

I think that if you look back at human history there has been a tremendous improvement in 6,000 years, in 2,000 years, even in 200 years. The idea that Trump is some kind of horrible digression is ridiculous.

Not "digression"...regression.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

But I do feel it is ridiculous to think the US government led by the Democrats are going to legislate us out of the catastrophe that Climate change is. Look at what happened to Puerto Rico from Maria. That is what will be happening in Mainland US in the next 10 years.Whenever you see people in these disaster zones they talk about rebuilding. That is denial.

Well, I guarantee the Democrats want to do more to stop Climate change than the science denying Republicans. https://www.ecowatch.com/midterm-res...618493194.html

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Have you noticed that before the midterms all we heard about was that scary caravan. But not after the midterms.

Also, where's that Nov. 1 middle class tax cut Trump promised? Don't hear about that any more either.

Those were just more Trumped-up lies to get Republicans to the polls.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

I guess I've been quite prescient. According to George Conway, at least :

George Conway: Republican Party has become a 'personality cult' under Trump

https://www.yahoo.com/news/george-co...130234835.html

You and George are just stating what is obvious to all except cult members.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

You and George are just stating what is obvious to all except cult members.

Cult members never see that they are in a cult. Tom Cruise doesn't see that he's in a cult. Trump cult followers will never admit that they are in a cult of personality. Those outside the cult can see it. But they can't.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Have you noticed that before the midterms all we heard about was that scary caravan. But not after the midterms.

Also, where's that Nov. 1 middle class tax cut Trump promised? Don't hear about that any more either.

The Midterms were a referendum and the voters clearly and emphatically have spoken. The Republicans need to back away from this if they want to hope to hold onto the Senate in 2 years.

This is simply a fulfillment of prophecy -- the "great" Eagle -- i.e. the US (not Mexico) will be a place of refuge for God's people.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Not "digression"...regression.

Seriously?! You think the US has returned to a former, less developed state? I haven't. I don't know anyone who has. Have you? Barring some completely unforeseen revelation, even the worst case currently being considered Trump will not be any worse than Ray Nagin. So where is the regression? Ray Nagin had far worse racist comments than anything Trump said ("New Orleans needs to be a chocolate city"), and convicted on many counts of fraud and corruption, all the time blaming his accusers far more than any "fake news" claims by Trump.

If you believe that Trump represents a "less developed state" than Obama that is not regression unless you feel that during Obama's presidency Trump and his supporters were in a more developed state but have since regressed. I don't think they have changed all that much, and if they have changed it hasn't been a regression.

Or you have to believe that Obama supporters have switched to becoming Trump supporters. I don't believe that at all. No evidence, certainly not in Brooklyn.

Or you have to believe that laws in this country have changed. Now if you said that after 911 with the passing of the Patriot Act that was a regression, I would not disagree. But, pray tell, what laws have changed that you can point to as a clear, undeniable regression in our civilization? If you said this after the JFK assassination when our foreign policy was completely changed, I would again not disagree. But I have not seen anything like that with Trump.

The only things that I can see Trump really having a big influence on:

1. Got a lot more people to get out and vote.
2. Got the country riled up to say we are not for being abusive towards immigrants and refugees.
3. Advanced the peace process with N. Korea
4. Had a very favorable impact on US economy.
5. Has strengthened our relationship with Israel
6. Might have a very good impact on trade treaties, especially with China.
7. So far has not gotten us into a war.
8. Picked two Supreme court justices, both were highly qualified.

What is it that I am missing that you see as this great "regression" in our civilization?

Originally Posted by zeek

Well, I guarantee the Democrats want to do more to stop Climate change than the science denying Republicans. https://www.ecowatch.com/midterm-res...618493194.html

Sure, like Al Gore. What exactly did the Clinton Administration do that had any real impact on reversing Climate change? In my experience the Democrats tell the voters what they want to hear, and then just do the bidding of the corporations, the Republicans are more honest in that way, they don't pretend they care or will actually do anything.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

You and George are just stating what is obvious to all except cult members.

Why are you raining on his parade? Don't listen to Zeek Awareness, you were prescient, insightful, it reminds me of the OT saying "is Saul also among the prophets" but in this case "Is Awareness also among the prophets" (please don't tell me you have taken your clothes off and are now running around the neighborhood)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why are you raining on his parade? Don't listen to Zeek Awareness, you were prescient, insightful, it reminds me of the OT saying "is Saul also among the prophets" but in this case "Is Awareness also among the prophets" (please don't tell me you have taken your clothes off and are now running around the neighborhood)

Well if the prophets strip naked, I'll join them.

[awareness]

Ivanka Trump, Trump's eldest daughter and an official adviser, used her personal email account for government business hundreds of times last year in violation of federal records rules.

Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!

[ZNPaaneah]

Public schools began after the Civil war. Prior to this a locality, generally organized around the church, would hire their own teacher to teach the kids to read and do simple arithmetic. Often the Bible was used as the reader.

After Public schools were formed you have people of different faiths and they didn't want their kids being taught the Bible by this teacher.

So instead the theory grew that what we need are "graded readers". These are books that are designed with a "3rd grade" reading level, or "4th grade" reading level, etc. For example, Charlotte's web has a 4th grade reading level (perhaps the very best of these, which is why we all read this book).

However, one of the results of this is that kids read "simplified texts" throughout school. Even now, in High school I look at the books kids are being given to read and they are very simple. These books are not "great works" of fiction and non fiction. Instead they are two dimensional, obvious, and simplistic. Little wonder that the result is kids don't like to read and after going through this education are not able to handle complex thought. This was in full evidence over the last few years to anyone following the "common core" debate where colleges were complaining that students were coming in unprepared. This debate focused around "argumentative essays" where students need to understand the difference between "claims" and "counter claims" and learn how to weigh the two.

Likewise when we read the writings of the Colonialists in the 1700s (the Federalist papers, Constitution, and Declaration of Independence) we can see a much richer writing and reasoning. The thought is nuanced, complex, and very considerate of both the claims and counterclaims.

We don't see this (simple, childish, graded readers being used in HS) in the suburbs because the parents are much more concerned about their kids learning to read at a young age, hiring tutors if there is a problem, and filling their homes with books. In the best HS's you will see many students operating at a college level. Likewise, in homes where the parents have a college education, they also understand and invest in this task of teaching kids to read at a young age. In contrast I saw a woman, quite young, complaining on the TV that her 18 year old son had graduated HS without learning to read. I was stunned, where were you when he was 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6? This woman thought that you just deliver a child to the school system and 12 years later they are educated, whereas that is not the thought in the suburbs. They understand that parents are responsible for their child's education.

So then, anyone concerned by the politics of the last few years and the conduct of the electorate needs to understand that the simplicity and foolishness of the American voter can be directly tied to the simplicity and foolishness of the books used to educate them.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Ivanka Trump, Trump's eldest daughter and an official adviser, used her personal email account for government business hundreds of times last year in violation of federal records rules.

Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!

I am pretty sure that if this is the full extent of the violation it will warrant a fine at most.

I assume that this is somehow related to the chant of "lock her up" directed at Hillary Clinton who, unlike this case, was accused of using her foundation to illegally funnel money to herself from world leaders (both an abuse of power, fraud, and tax evasion) and used a private email to bypass the oversight that was set up to protect against just this thing (obstruction of justice) and then destroyed the evidence (also obstruction of justice).

So unless you are also claiming fraud, abuse of power and obstruction of justice for Ivanka I hardly see how the two are related.

One other contrast, Hillary was a career politician fully aware of the laws and protocols, especially since she was Secretary of State, dealt with documents of the highest security and had to believe the Russians and Chinese wanted to hack into her server. Putting these documents in a less secure server put the entire US at risk and was incredibly irresponsible, nor could we believe that this wasn't an intentional act on her part. Ivanka, by contrast, was a novice and was not dealing with State secrets.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am pretty sure that if this is the full extent of the violation it will warrant a fine at most.

I assume that this is somehow related to the chant of "lock her up" directed at Hillary Clinton.

They are still chanting Lock Her Up at Trump rally's. The problem is that they found nothing she could arrested for.

Lock her up was just one of Trump's catchy slogans, like drain the swamp, which he even admitted was ridiculous. All his slogans are ridiculous.

But he made Hillary's emails a big deal. Even asking Putin to hack into them ; while it was common a common practice, as Colin Powell and Condi Rice used the private email servers.

So if Hillary was a big deal to Trump, so should the emails be for Trump's daughter wife.

Lock 'em both up.
.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

They are still chanting Lock Her Up at Trump rally's. The problem is that they found nothing she could arrested for.

Lock her up was just one of Trump's catchy slogans, like drain the swamp, which he even admitted was ridiculous. All his slogans are ridiculous.

But he made Hillary's emails a big deal. Even asking Putin to hack into them ; while it was common a common practice, as Colin Powell and Condi Rice used the private email servers.

So if Hillary was a big deal to Trump, so should the emails be for Trump's daughter wife.

Lock 'em both up.
.

That is faulty logic. If you claim that Trump was ridiculous for his "lock her up" chant then you condemn yourself. Instead you should ask "Will Trump call for Ivanka to be locked up?"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is faulty logic. If you claim that Trump was ridiculous for his "lock her up" chant then you condemn yourself. Instead you should ask "Will Trump call for Ivanka to be locked up?"

Lock 'em all up. They're all criminals up there. Lock the whole Trump family up.

[zeek]

WASHINGTON — President Trump defied the nation’s intelligence agencies and a growing body of evidence on Tuesday to declare his unswerving loyalty to Saudi Arabia, asserting that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s culpability for the killing of Jamal Khashoggi might never be known.

In a remarkable statement that appeared calculated to end the debate over the American response to the killing of Mr. Khashoggi, the president said, “It could very well be that the crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event — maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/w...d=165251391121

I condemn Trump's amoral statement, his values, his judgment and his conclusion, his contempt for the US intelligence and his love of murdering tyrants. I spit on his so-called "America First" policy which values money over human life.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

WASHINGTON — President Trump defied the nation’s intelligence agencies and a growing body of evidence on Tuesday to declare his unswerving loyalty to Saudi Arabia, asserting that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s culpability for the killing of Jamal Khashoggi might never be known.

In a remarkable statement that appeared calculated to end the debate over the American response to the killing of Mr. Khashoggi, the president said, “It could very well be that the crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event — maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/w...d=165251391121

I condemn Trump's amoral statement, his values, his judgment and his conclusion, his contempt for the US intelligence and his love of murdering tyrants. I spit on his so-called "America First" policy which values money over human life.

I think it would be wonderful if this causes and equal and opposite reaction within our political theater.

I don't buy the idea that we need to fear the Saudis will stop buying our guns. Instead, I do buy the idea that kowtowing to dictators, like the appeasement of Neville Chamberlain is cowardly.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think it would be wonderful if this causes and equal and opposite reaction within our political theater.

I don't buy the idea that we need to fear the Saudis will stop buying our guns. Instead, I do buy the idea that kowtowing to dictators, like the appeasement of Neville Chamberlain is cowardly.

If you want the Apathetic-in-Chief to be on your side, kill a Washington Post journalist. Don't worry, he'll pardon you. You'll be a star at his rally's.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

If you want the Apathetic-in-Chief to be on your side, kill a Washington Post journalist. Don't worry, he'll pardon you. You'll be a star at his rally's.

Sounds like you want to do standup by taking others material.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

WASHINGTON — President Trump defied the nation’s intelligence agencies and a growing body of evidence on Tuesday to declare his unswerving loyalty to Saudi Arabia, asserting that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s culpability for the killing of Jamal Khashoggi might never be known.

In a remarkable statement that appeared calculated to end the debate over the American response to the killing of Mr. Khashoggi, the president said, “It could very well be that the crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event — maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!”

I condemn Trump's amoral statement, his values, his judgment and his conclusion, his contempt for the US intelligence and his love of murdering tyrants. I spit on his so-called "America First" policy which values money over human life.

It's sickening to watch others hopelessly blinded by the Left's anti-Trump rhetoric concerning Khashoggi. But where was zeek's outrage when James Foley had his head sawed off? Silence. Crickets.

Whereas James Foley was a true journalist documenting the horrible plight of Syrian victims, Khashoggi was a political activist, not an American citizen, and well-connected with the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama's favorite organization, and who happened to write stories for WaPo.

LETTER: Obama did nothing to help save Foley

Regarding the Aug. 20 article, James Foley’s death will haunt me always,” as CEO of Global-Post Philip Balboni tried to do everything in his power to help the Foley family find and free James Foley and also help the families of the other American hostages. I was touched, yet angered, by the article — touched because there are many out there willing to help find and free these hostages and angered because our own government did nothing to free Foley, and did less for the families.

According to the article, “even though the Global-Post and the Foley family had extensive contact with the U.S. government, almost from the beginning of our search, we were left on our own, forced to carry the full weight of the investigation.” [The Obama] government did nothing to assist them in the first-year search for Foley.

Yet President Barack Obama could trade five vicious terrorists for a soldier who knowingly left his base and put all other soldiers in danger, had the brass to bring this cowardly soldier’s family to the White House, flaunt them in front of national TV and the public, and praise the soldier and his family.

Thank you for this article and the truth behind Foley’s unfortunate, untimely horrific death. I am so sick of all the lies and the deceit from this dysfunctional administration.

Foley was murdered because Obama promised action, but never delivered. Remember his infamous "line in the sand" concerning Syria?

President Trump, however, has continually used the full weight of American leverage to free hostages. Getting past the daily lies of the Media Smear Machine, which zeek embraces so dearly, Praise God for the work which Trump did to free Pastor Andrew Brunson from false charges while locked up in some Turkish prison.

Once again zeek gets fooled by the Left's trap. Had Trump done anything regarding Khashoggi, the media would have smeared him for meddling in the Turkish Judicial System.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's sickening to watch others hopelessly blinded by the Left's anti-Trump rhetoric concerning Khashoggi. But where was zeek's outrage when James Foley had his head sawed off? Silence. Crickets.

Whereas James Foley was a true journalist documenting the horrible plight of Syrian victims, Khashoggi was a political activist, not an American citizen, and well-connected with the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama's favorite organization, and who happened to write stories for WaPo.

LETTER: Obama did nothing to help save Foley

Foley was murdered because Obama promised action, but never delivered. Remember his infamous "line in the sand" concerning Syria?

President Trump, however, has continually used the full weight of American leverage to free hostages. Getting past the daily lies of the Media Smear Machine, which zeek embraces so dearly, Praise God for the work which Trump did to free Pastor Andrew Brunson from false charges while locked up in some Turkish prison.

Once again zeek gets fooled by the Left's trap. Had Trump done anything regarding Khashoggi, the media would have smeared him for meddling in the Turkish Judicial System.

We see what you did there Mr. Ohio. You changed the subject from the rightness or wrongness of Trump letting the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia get away with murder to the kind of personal attack on me that Untohim called "too personal and too mean-spirited." See how many times zeek is emboldened in your post? You made it all about me. I'm so flattered.

But I follow your logic. In your mind it's all right to murder people if they're not Christians. After all they're already condemned by God anyway by your reasoning.

And it was fine for the president to approve of the murder and broadcast the propaganda of the murderous regime in his statement yesterday. Like Trump, you side with the murderous Middle Eastern monarchy over the American intelligence community. You're spreading their propaganda against Khashoggi too. Surprise surprise! You're a true Trumper you are.

Tell me how if Obama was wrong does that make Trump right? The subject is whether Trump is right to give the Crown Prince a pass on murder to Make Oil Prices Great Again. That's not to mention Trump's businesses have made millions from the Saudi government, and the crown prince gave his New York City hotel a huge boost n violation of the emoluments clause of the US Constitution which you claim to love when it suits you. What does your Bible say about serving God and mammon?

And of course Khashoggi was the evil enemy. After all he worked for the liberal Washington Post. Liberals are fair game in your book. You hate the Mainstream Media because you hate the Mainstream. They aren't
your people --the born againers are your team. You go for the extreme media because, guess what, you're an extremist!

The only time you're for freedom of speech is when you're slamming the liberal snowflakes as if you're not a snowflake yourself. That's all consistent with your repressive sectarian worldview. Got it.

[zeek]

"Trump would be wise to learn from John Roberts' rebuke"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...roberts-rebuke

Opinion in the conservative Washington Examiner no less. But, Trump is not wise. He's already shot back at the Chief Justice in another poison tweet. He's out to destroy the constitutional separation of powers for his own gain. Trump won't stop. He must be stopped.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Trump would be wise to learn from John Roberts' rebuke"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...roberts-rebuke

Opinion in the conservative Washington Examiner no less. But, Trump is not wise. He's already shot back at the Chief Justice in another poison tweet. He's out to destroy the constitutional separation of powers for his own gain. Trump won't stop. He must be stopped.

Making enemies of the judges is not wise. Now he's threatening to break up the 9th. All 29 judges, he falsely claims, are liberal Obama judges.

Meanwhile a Trump judge ruled for CNN and Acosta press credentials. Haha! Obama, Hillary, and Soros, must be getting to even Trump appointed judges. The media must be part of it too. They're all conspiring against Trump.

That's what happens when you make enemies of everyone.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's sickening to watch others hopelessly blinded by the Left's anti-Trump rhetoric concerning Khashoggi. But where was zeek's outrage when James Foley had his head sawed off? Silence. Crickets.

Whereas James Foley was a true journalist documenting the horrible plight of Syrian victims, Khashoggi was a political activist, not an American citizen, and well-connected with the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama's favorite organization, and who happened to write stories for WaPo.

LETTER: Obama did nothing to help save Foley

Foley was murdered because Obama promised action, but never delivered. Remember his infamous "line in the sand" concerning Syria?

President Trump, however, has continually used the full weight of American leverage to free hostages. Getting past the daily lies of the Media Smear Machine, which zeek embraces so dearly, Praise God for the work which Trump did to free Pastor Andrew Brunson from false charges while locked up in some Turkish prison.

Once again zeek gets fooled by the Left's trap. Had Trump done anything regarding Khashoggi, the media would have smeared him for meddling in the Turkish Judicial System.

Yes, there are things Obama did and didn't do that can be condemned. Likewise with Bush, Bush, Clinton, etc.

But I am not going to justify Trump's behavior because it is no worse than Obama's.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

We see what you did there Mr. Ohio. You changed the subject from the rightness or wrongness of Trump letting the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia get away with murder to the kind of personal attack on me that Untohim called "too personal and too mean-spirited." See how many times zeek is emboldened in your post? You made it all about me. I'm so flattered.

Wow, I completely missed that. I thought it was all about Foley and Obama

Originally Posted by zeek

But I follow your logic. In your mind it's all right to murder people if they're not Christians. After all they're already condemned by God anyway by your reasoning.

Wow, I missed that as well! I thought his point was the hypocrisy in those who were silent when Obama did nothing but now are outraged when Trump does nothing.

Originally Posted by zeek

And it was fine for the president to approve of the murder and broadcast the propaganda of the murderous regime in his statement yesterday. Like Trump, you side with the murderous Middle Eastern monarchy over the American intelligence community. You're spreading their propaganda against Khashoggi too. Surprise surprise! You're a true Trumper you are.

Wow! I missed that too! Trump approved of the murder of Khashogi?

Originally Posted by zeek

Tell me how if Obama was wrong does that make Trump right? The subject is whether Trump is right to give the Crown Prince a pass on murder to Make Oil Prices Great Again. That's not to mention Trump's businesses have made millions from the Saudi government, and the crown prince gave his New York City hotel a huge boost n violation of the emoluments clause of the US Constitution which you claim to love when it suits you. What does your Bible say about serving God and mammon?

Those are your questions. But you seem to have ignored his question -- if you are so outraged now, why were you so silent before?

Originally Posted by zeek

And of course Khashoggi was the evil enemy. After all he worked for the liberal Washington Post. Liberals are fair game in your book. You hate the Mainstream Media because you hate the Mainstream. They aren't
your people --the born againers are your team. You go for the extreme media because, guess what, you're an extremist!

Wow, how could I miss so much! It is amazing what Zeek is able to infer with his tea leaves. I didn't know Ohio thought Khashoggi was the "evil enemy" or that he thought it was OK to kill journalists that worked for the Washington Post.

Originally Posted by zeek

The only time you're for freedom of speech is when you're slamming the liberal snowflakes as if you're not a snowflake yourself. That's all consistent with your repressive sectarian worldview. Got it.

I don't think you did get it. I think you simply heard the demons speaking in your own mind.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wow, I completely missed that. I thought it was all about Foley and Obama.Wow, I missed that as well! I thought his point was the hypocrisy in those who were silent when Obama did nothing but now are outraged when Trump does nothing.

That was simply false equivalence on Mr. Ohio's part. In July 2014, U.S. President Barack Obama authorized a "substantial and complex" rescue operation after the U.S. intelligence community said a "broad collection of intelligence" led to believe that the hostages were being held at a specific location in Syria. However, the mission failed because the hostages had been moved. The operation involved special operations forces from multiple branches of the US military, including the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, helicopters, fixed wing aircraft and drones.When Delta Force commandos landed in the eastern Syrian city of Raqqa, they were met with gunfire and it became apparent that the hostages had been moved. ISIL suffered numerous casualties while American forces suffered a single minor injury. The operation was only declassified after Foley's death. It represented the first confirmation of U.S. troops operating on the ground within Syria during the Syrian Civil War. [Wikipdia] To say that Obama did nothing to try to help Foley is a lie.

I was horrified by Foley's death as I am by Khashoggi's. To suggest otherwise is a lie.

Wow! I missed that too! Trump approved of the murder of Khashogi?

Repeating the Saudi rationale for killing him like Trump and Mr. Oho have done without a counter argument or condemnation is tantamount to approval.

Those are your questions. But you seem to have ignored his question -- if you are so outraged now, why were you so silent before?

Obama tried to save Foley and authorized attacks on his murderers after he was killed. Trump said he intends to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia and said he would take no action. Again you're making a false equivalence.

Wow, how could I miss so much! It is amazing what Zeek is able to infer with his tea leaves. I didn't know Ohio thought Khashoggi was the "evil enemy" or that he thought it was OK to kill journalists that worked for the Washington Post.

It's my inference based on his expressed hatred for liberals and the liberal media. Those are his enemies, not the murdering Saudi prince.

I don't think you did get it. I think you simply heard the demons speaking in your own mind.

You're entitled to your opinion even if it is based on an antiquated unscientific folk theory of human psychology.

[awareness]

I wasn't critical of Obama because I thought he was black Jesus. And Trump is white Satan. Also, liberals are the good angels, and conservatives are the fallen angels.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Just don't invite native Americans at your dinner.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

That was simply false equivalence on Mr. Ohio's part. In July 2014, U.S. President Barack Obama authorized a "substantial and complex" rescue operation after the U.S. intelligence community said a "broad collection of intelligence" led to believe that the hostages were being held at a specific location in Syria. However, the mission failed because the hostages had been moved. The operation involved special operations forces from multiple branches of the US military, including the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, helicopters, fixed wing aircraft and drones.When Delta Force commandos landed in the eastern Syrian city of Raqqa, they were met with gunfire and it became apparent that the hostages had been moved. ISIL suffered numerous casualties while American forces suffered a single minor injury. The operation was only declassified after Foley's death. It represented the first confirmation of U.S. troops operating on the ground within Syria during the Syrian Civil War. [Wikipdia] To say that Obama did nothing to try to help Foley is a lie.

I was horrified by Foley's death as I am by Khashoggi's. To suggest otherwise is a lie.

Repeating the Saudi rationale for killing him like Trump and Mr. Oho have done without a counter argument or condemnation is tantamount to approval.

Obama tried to save Foley and authorized attacks on his murderers after he was killed. Trump said he intends to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia and said he would take no action. Again you're making a false equivalence.

It's my inference based on his expressed hatred for liberals and the liberal media. Those are his enemies, not the murdering Saudi prince.

You're entitled to your opinion even if it is based on an antiquated unscientific folk theory of human psychology.

This is a reasonable explanation, still I am hit with how you can provide reasonable explanations for yourself but all of your inferences towards Ohio suggest he is some kind of nazi sympathizer.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is a reasonable explanation, still I am hit with how you can provide reasonable explanations for yourself but all of your inferences towards Ohio suggest he is some kind of nazi sympathizer.

No need to play the Nazi card. Mr. Ohio is more than a Trump sympathizer. He has shown himself to be quite fanatical in his support for virtually everything Trump says and does in many go-rounds with you where I found your arguments to be reasonable but to no avail. So I'm hit with the fact that in spite of all that you don't understand my reaction.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

No need to play the Nazi card. Mr. Ohio is more than a Trump sympathizer. He has shown himself to be quite fanatical in his support for virtually everything Trump says and does in many go-rounds with you where I found your arguments to be reasonable but to no avail. So I'm hit with the fact that in spite of all that you don't understand my reaction.

Because I do not understand the use of "Trump sympathizer" in juxtaposition with Nazi sympathizer.

Trump is the president, elected based on our system of free and fair elections.

He is rude, but no ruder than LBJ or Nixon were in private, so he is simply far more transparent than previous presidents. He is morally compromised, but no more so than JFK or Clinton or FDR, the only difference is that his sins are plastered all over the TV far more than FDR's or JFK's were.

He is under investigation, but so was Clinton (Whitewater), so was Nixon (Watergate), so was Reagan (Iran Contra), so how does that make him any different from previous presidents?

He may have offensive positions, for example climate denial. But all the other presidents except for Carter were nothing more than lip service. Kyoto was not a cure, simply a bandaid to provide a fig leaf. The only president who was actually serious about cutting our dependence on Middle Eastern oil was Carter and they hit him with a phony oil embargo engineered by US oil men resulting in him being booted from office. Trump is simply being honest about the US not doing anything about climate change but doing the bidding of big oil.

So what is the reason for the incredibly insulting attacks on Trump? Because a few white supremacists support him? They are US citizens, just as much as the most militant Black lives matter supporters are too. There are nasty, outrageous, racist jerks that supported Obama. For example the pastor of his church. I didn't hold Obama responsible for some of his worst supporters. If 50 million people vote for someone then it only stands to reason that some of those people will be offensive jerks.

The Bible says to pray for the president. I prayed for Obama, I pray for Trump. There is no Biblical basis or wisdom in likening Trump to a nazi just as there isn't any wisdom in likening Obama to the muslim terrorists.

On the other hand there are things to appreciate about him.

1. What campaign promise did he make that he didn't keep?

(can't say that about any previous president).

2. His picks for Supreme court have been highly qualified and respected irrespective of your political beliefs or the nasty trial they were put through.

(again, not true of some of our previous Supreme court nominees, some of whom were simply political appointees without any real qualifications as a judge).

3. First president we have had with a backbone to go after China, unlike all the other wimps who talked a lot and did nothing.

4. Hasn't got us into a war.

5. Economy is good.

6. His sending the military to the border is simply logistical support for a thousand+ refugees. No guns, no tanks, no basis for the absurd vitriolic attacks from some "reputable" media outlets. Simply doing things in good order.

[awareness]

Brother ZNP,

You sound like you love him :

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Brother ZNP,

You sound like you love him :

If you can believe such absurdities then what is next, committing atrocities?

What I believe is that the only sound path forward is given by the Bible, to pray for those in authority. The idea that Trump was worse than the Roman Caesars at the time the NT was written is another absurdity.

The purpose for this prayer is that we can live a quiet and peaceable life.

There is no suggestion that being Christians, or moral, or tactful, are prerequisites for us to pray for them.

[ZNPaaneah]

Over Thanksgiving my brother made a very astute point, all of the complaints against Trump are merely preaching to the choir, none of those complaints affect his supporters, they know that and either don't care or agree with Trump. Therefore, all you are doing is highlighting the divide.

Instead, if you would focus on the things that he does that are anathema to his base, then you might actually be effective at motivating a groundswell of indignation towards him. Point out the one thing he does that they hate and you will see them rise up and throw him out.

Simply remind people that Trump rides his golf cart onto the green.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Because I do not understand the use of "Trump sympathizer" in juxtaposition with Nazi sympathizer.

You're the one who played the Nazi card. Now you're playing it again. Shows you have a weak hand.

Trump is the president, elected based on our system of free and fair elections.

How many times has Trump called the election process rigged and claimed voter fraud? You're not listening to the guy you're arguing for.

He is rude, but no ruder than LBJ or Nixon were in private, so he is simply far more transparent than previous presidents. He is morally compromised, but no more so than JFK or Clinton or FDR, the only difference is that his sins are plastered all over the TV far more than FDR's or JFK's were.

You're putting down Trump's number one strength: His ability to dominate the news cycle day after day. Of course, he has turned public discourse into a reality TV show to accomplish this. What you're calling "transparency" is his total lack of a sense of shame.

He is under investigation, but so was Clinton (Whitewater), so was Nixon (Watergate), so was Reagan (Iran Contra), so how does that make him any different from previous presidents?

He's at least guilty of obstructing justice, violating the US Constitution separation of powers and the emoluments clause. He makes Nixon's crimes look small time.

He may have offensive positions, for example climate denial. But all the other presidents except for Carter were nothing more than lip service. Kyoto was not a cure, simply a bandaid to provide a fig leaf. The only president who was actually serious about cutting our dependence on Middle Eastern oil was Carter and they hit him with a phony oil embargo engineered by US oil men resulting in him being booted from office. Trump is simply being honest about the US not doing anything about climate change but doing the bidding of big oil.

This is patently false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Power_Plan

So what is the reason for the incredibly insulting attacks on Trump? Because a few white supremacists support him? They are US citizens, just as much as the most militant Black lives matter supporters are too. There are nasty, outrageous, racist jerks that supported Obama. For example the pastor of his church. I didn't hold Obama responsible for some of his worst supporters. If 50 million people vote for someone then it only stands to reason that some of those people will be offensive jerks.

I don't like Trump. He's hurting and endangering the country. He encourages White Supremacists. They have grown stronger under his nurturing. I feel it's a civic duty to protest against him.

The Bible says to pray for the president. I prayed for Obama, I pray for Trump.

I believe in freedom of religion and freedom from it. You're welcome to pray for whoever you want. On the other hand, if people in the American colonies had simply prayed for King George we'd still be groveling under one of them. I don't have to grovel before King Trump.

There is no Biblical basis or wisdom in likening Trump to a nazi just as there isn't any wisdom in likening Obama to the muslim terrorists.

Over and over you play the Nazi card. Notice how I refuse to take the bait. Of course, your argument is fantastically anachronistic since neither Trump nor Nazism, nor Muslim terrorists nor Obama are in the Bible. You don't seem to have a sense of when your thoughts are becoming bizarre and irrational.

On the other hand there are things to appreciate about him.

1. What campaign promise did he make that he didn't keep?

Now this is a ridiculous question coming from anyone who is paying attention.

Trump duped people with a lot of unrealistic promises, so it isn't surprising that there are many promises he hasn't fulfilled. His followers loved him because he voiced their wishful fantasies and they wanted to believe his lies that he was a self-made billionaire. There are so many. I'll give you a few examples

He didn't lock up Hillary Clinton.

His Trumpcare "better-than-Obamacare" plan doesn't exist. He promised to abolish Trumpcare. Hasn't happened.

Where' his trillion dollar infrastructure reconstruction? Where's his wall?

He promised he wouldn't take vacations.
He promised a 4 percent economic growth rate each year. It didn't happen in 2017.

He said he would establish a ban on Muslims entering the U.S. Didn't happen. He said he'd raise taxes on the rich including himself.

As a candidate, Trump promised to raise taxes on the rich; as president, he promised tax changes that at a minimum wouldn’t benefit the rich.

Trump promised to break up America’s largest banks by reinstated old Glass-Steagall regulations that prevented financial conglomerates from operating in multiple lines of business.

Trump promised price controls on prescription drugs.

Trump promised to “take the oil” from Iraq to reduce the financial burden of US military policy.

Trump promised many times that he would release his tax returns and promised to put his wealth into a blind trust.

Trump vowed rollback of climate change regulations but said he was committed to upholding clean air and clean water goals. Clean air and water enforcement by EPA has moved in just the opposite direction.

(can't say that about any previous president).

You can't say that about this one either. But, you just did. So, you're wrong, as I just showed.

2. His picks for Supreme court have been highly qualified and respected irrespective of your political beliefs or the nasty trial they were put through.
(again, not true of some of our previous Supreme court nominees, some of whom were simply political appointees without any real qualifications as a judge).

Since when do you care whom the Washington insiders respect? "Drain the Swamp" Trump has no respect for an independent judiciary. Ask Chief Justice Roberts. Trump believes he's appointed to lackeys to the bench, and so should you. That's how it really works. Don't be a dope. They both dissembled during the hearings in order to get in. Kavanaugh in particular destroyed any respect I might have had for him with his shameful performance in the hearings.

3. First president we have had with a backbone to go after China, unlike all the other wimps who talked a lot and did nothing.

In a stupid destructive way.

4. Hasn't got us into a war.

His first term ain't over yet. He has weakened our alliances to the point that if we do get into a war we'll be fighting it alone.

5. Economy is good.

Low age jobs are plentiful. But, the American dream is dying and the life support system is threatened by Trump and the stingy party. The gap between rich and poor grows ever wider.

Trump stole from the government coffers and gave to the very rich, and nothing big happened in the economy as a result. That's bad.

Where are the rising wages, better health care, better schools, better job growth? Now we have less government services and protections, and a debt that will be paid by our grandchildren.

But the one percent is glutted with enough wealth turn the whole thing around if it weren't for greed. We're living in the second Gilded Age.

6. His sending the military to the border is simply logistical support for a thousand+ refugees. No guns, no tanks, no basis for the absurd vitriolic attacks from some "reputable" media outlets. Simply doing things in good order.

Simply a shameful political ploy and misuse of the military personnel and resources.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you can believe such absurdities then what is next, committing atrocities?

Now you've gone and done it. You've forced me to bust out with a,

Bahahahahahahah ...

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

He's at least guilty of obstructing justice, violating the US Constitution separation of powers and the emoluments clause. He makes Nixon's crimes look small time.

If he is guilty of those things there should be a closed door hearing, let the house and senate see the evidence. The House now has a very solid Democratic majority and surely a couple of Republicans would also vote for impeachment if there was evidence sufficient to convict. After this last election the Republicans would have to realize that the only way to avoid being destroyed in 2 years is to support impeachment in such a case. I am all for impeaching him if you have solid evidence of a crime. I also believe that impeachment is the only first step. You can't have a sitting president also being tried in a criminal court. Impeach him, then let him defend himself.

Originally Posted by zeek

I don't like Trump. He's hurting and endangering the country. He encourages White Supremacists. They have grown stronger under his nurturing. I feel it's a civic duty to protest against him.

Great. Well human history does not progress in a straight line. If you are absolutely, 100% correct about him, then the benefit of his administration is twofold

1. Motivated the vote
2. Referendum on the immigration issue and the immigrants clearly won.

Originally Posted by zeek

He didn't lock up Hillary Clinton.

His Trumpcare "better-than-Obamacare" plan doesn't exist. He promised to abolish Trumpcare. Hasn't happened.

Where' his trillion dollar infrastructure reconstruction? Where's his wall?

He promised he wouldn't take vacations.
He promised a 4 percent economic growth rate each year. It didn't happen in 2017.

He said he would establish a ban on Muslims entering the U.S. Didn't happen. He said he'd raise taxes on the rich including himself.

As a candidate, Trump promised to raise taxes on the rich; as president, he promised tax changes that at a minimum wouldn’t benefit the rich.

Trump promised to break up America’s largest banks by reinstated old Glass-Steagall regulations that prevented financial conglomerates from operating in multiple lines of business.

Trump promised price controls on prescription drugs.

Trump promised to “take the oil” from Iraq to reduce the financial burden of US military policy.

Trump promised many times that he would release his tax returns and promised to put his wealth into a blind trust.

Trump vowed rollback of climate change regulations but said he was committed to upholding clean air and clean water goals. Clean air and water enforcement by EPA has moved in just the opposite direction.

I think this last election was an overwhelming victory for the Democrats. The voters are speaking. If we think of the collective wisdom the voters made it clear they were not going to let Hillary Clinton be elected and now they are not going to allow Trump to run the country either.

In addition they have made it clear how they feel about immigration and they realize for the first time that their vote does matter and they need to become involved.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

This is patently false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Power_Plan

"The plan will require individual states to meet specific standards with respect to reduction of carbon dioxide emissions"

Reducing carbon dioxide emissions is simply a bandaid. The only genuine "solution" would be to reduce atmospheric carbon dioxide. As the report that was just released points out we are already in the effects of Climate change. What it doesn't point out is that the system is elastic, based on the levels of carbon dioxide we have in the atmosphere we expect much higher effects, it simply takes time to kick in since this change has happened in a "split second" in geologic time.

All the plan intended was to reduce the rate at which the levels increase, not to actually reduce them. Also, Obama's plan only had force in the US, 5% of the world's population. So if successful he would reduce the rate at which 5% of the world is polluting. Again, a band aid.

Third, these plans are voluntary. What happens when all social order collapses like it has in Guatemala, or the Honduras, of Syria, Yemen, Puerto Rico, etc. As these areas are hammered they are not going to pay any attention, if they need to use extremely dirty generators after a catastrophe they will.

Have you considered how much carbon dioxide went into the air from the California fires. Is that factored in? Do they now say "Oh, sorry California, you have completely used up your quota in the fires", no? Then the whole plan is bogus, even if you did keep it the "exceptions to the rule" could easily outweigh any small reduction. It was a bandaid, not going to solve anything. Brace for impact.

Those who have been most active in the research and battle to do something no longer are focused on reducing emissions, rather they are looking at ways to adapt to the new reality. Floating cities, things like that. Maybe in the 70s we had a chance to make some meaningful changes that could have postponed judgement day, but as Arnold Schwarnegger said "judgement day is inevitable, you only postponed it".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Have you considered how much carbon dioxide went into the air from the California fires. Is that factored in? Do they now say "Oh, sorry California, you have completely used up your quota in the fires", no? Then the whole plan is bogus, even if you did keep it the "exceptions to the rule" could easily outweigh any small reduction. It was a bandaid, not going to solve anything. Brace for impact.

I say yes. California has used up their carbon quota. No more fossil fuels for them until next year. Close their gas stations. Shut down their power stations. No federal money for them.

Jerry Brown should be thrown in prison. He is mentally unstable, destroying California. Everything evil he said about Trump should now be done to him. He let all those people in Paradise die, while he played the fiddle. He is a murdering fascist, worst that Hitler, Stalin, or Nero.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If he is guilty of those things there should be a closed door hearing, let the house and senate see the evidence. The House now has a very solid Democratic majority and surely a couple of Republicans would also vote for impeachment if there was evidence sufficient to convict.

That's a naive assumption. There's plenty of evidence. https://www.economist.com/united-sta...Ed3jDOHbYFvknw What is needed is the political will.

After this last election the Republicans would have to realize that the only way to avoid being destroyed in 2 years is to support impeachment in such a case. I am all for impeaching him if you have solid evidence of a crime. I also believe that impeachment is the only first step. You can't have a sitting president also being tried in a criminal court. Impeach him, then let him defend himself.

Impeachment can have unintended political consequences as has been demonstrated in the past after A. Johnson and Clinton. The Democratic base may want impeachment, but the party leaders want to proceed with caution. If the Republicans support impeachment as you said of course that could change.

Great. Well human history does not progress in a straight line. If you are absolutely, 100% correct about him, then the benefit of his administration is twofold

1. Motivated the vote
2. Referendum on the immigration issue and the immigrants clearly won.

The immigration problem is a result of the inability of the major parties in Washington to agree on a rational policy due to politicization. The problem is made worse by Trump's fear-mongering. But, your claim that the immigrants "won" is more of the same.

I think this last election was an overwhelming victory for the Democrats. The voters are speaking. If we think of the collective wisdom the voters made it clear they were not going to let Hillary Clinton be elected and now they are not going to allow Trump to run the country either.

The victory was less than overwhelming. The Democrats won the House of Representatives. They didn't win the Senate. And there's a conservative majority in the SCOTUS. They picked up some Gubernatorial seats some state legislative seats. But, the Republicans have more. The Republicans won big in Florida.

You think it's a president's job is to "run the country"? The POTUS directs one branch of the Federal Government. He's not an absolute monarch or the CEO of the USA. The US Constitution doesn't empower the POTUS to "run the country." That's not how the USA is supposed to work. Your statement suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of the US government on your part.

In addition they have made it clear how they feel about immigration and they realize for the first time that their vote does matter and they need to become involved.

Actually there was more than one issue involved. But, right, more people are getting involved which is good for democracy which is a good thing to us who believe in that sort of thing.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

That's a naive assumption. There's plenty of evidence. https://www.economist.com/united-sta...Ed3jDOHbYFvknw What is needed is the political will.

Now who is being naive. In the US it is not whether or not someone is guilty, it is whether or not you can prove they are guilty.

Originally Posted by zeek

Impeachment can have unintended political consequences as has been demonstrated in the past after A. Johnson and Clinton. The Democratic base may want impeachment, but the party leaders want to proceed with caution. If the Republicans support impeachment as you said of course that could change.

There is no other option. I would absolutely reject the idea of a criminal trial a sitting president. Step 1 -- impeachment. Step 2 -- Trial. Now there is no reason that the evidence would have to be sealed, Mueller's report can be made public and if that is not enough to get powerful public support for impeachment then the case is weak. Just look at the last midterm, the public is not giving Trump a pass, not even in Mississippi.

Originally Posted by zeek

The immigration problem is a result of the inability of the major parties in Washington to agree on a rational policy due to politicization. The problem is made worse by Trump's fear-mongering. But, your claim that the immigrants "won" is more of the same.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming on both sides. Republicans claim they want to strengthen the borders, etc but the biggest violators are Republicans who really want their employees to be illegal aliens that are afraid to speak up lest they get deported. This is why I said the immigrants won because neither party would have ever done a referendum, this election was a referendum.

Originally Posted by zeek

The victory was less than overwhelming. The Democrats won the House of Representatives. They didn't win the Senate. And there's a conservative majority in the SCOTUS. They picked up some Gubernatorial seats some state legislative seats. But, the Republicans have more. The Republicans won big in Florida.

Democrats did as good or better than every single projection. No one projected a victory this big. On one hand they have a very firm control of the house whereas most projections only gave Democrats good odds to win the house, not nearly in such a dominating way.

They don't control the Senate, but how much are they lacking -- 2 seats. In 2 years 33 senators will be up for election, probably 16-17 will be Republican. They saw the heavy losses in this election and they will take that into consideration. I would not be surprised if a few flip here and there. the fear of Trump has to be much less than it was, and if Mueller's report is as damaging as many say it will be (politically, not criminally) then These Republicans may be very eager to distance themselves from him.

Originally Posted by zeek

Actually there was more than one issue involved. But, right, more people are getting involved which is good for democracy which is a good thing to us who believe in that sort of thing.

Compared to the abuses of 200 years ago we have had great improvement. Democracy was an experiment 250 years ago, today it is stronger than ever with China and Russia doing a last ditch effort to undermine it, but once their lies get exposed it will make us stronger and make them look even worse.

[Ohio]

Nixon was almost impeached for spying on the Democrats and lying about it during an election season.

So Trump should be impeached for being spied on by the Democrats and lied to during an election season???

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Nixon was almost impeached for spying on the Democrats and lying about it during an election season.

So Trump should be impeached for being spied on by the Democrats and lied to during an election season???

Relax, he will not be impeached unless you can convince a few Republican Senators that his crimes warrant it. That is a very high standard. They would need to see clear and convincing proof so serious that if they ignore it they won't get reelected.

[awareness]

I'm moved to say : My esteem for Geraldo Rivera has been up and down for a long time. But at the moment it's very high.

On the "not fake news" Fox “The Five” he went off script and said :

“I am ashamed." “The tear gas choked me. We treat these people, these economic refugees, as if they’re zombies from ‘The Walking Dead.’”

“These are desperate people. They walked 2,000 miles. Why? Because they want to rape your daughter or steal your lunch? No! Because they want a job. They want to fill the millions of unfilled jobs we have in the agricultural sector. They want to wash dishes in the restaurants. They want to deliver the pizzas. For goodness sake, we suspend our humanity when it comes to this issue, and I fear that it is because they look different than the mainstream.”

There's the Rivera I once loved.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm moved to say : My esteem for Geraldo Rivera has been up and down for a long time. But at the moment it's very high.

On the "not fake news" Fox “The Five” he went off script and said :

“I am ashamed." “The tear gas choked me. We treat these people, these economic refugees, as if they’re zombies from ‘The Walking Dead.’”

“These are desperate people. They walked 2,000 miles. Why? Because they want to rape your daughter or steal your lunch? No! Because they want a job. They want to fill the millions of unfilled jobs we have in the agricultural sector. They want to wash dishes in the restaurants. They want to deliver the pizzas. For goodness sake, we suspend our humanity when it comes to this issue, and I fear that it is because they look different than the mainstream.”
There's the Rivera I once loved.

Great point, so then what is the proper way to treat people storming the gate?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Relax, he will not be impeached unless you can convince a few Republican Senators that his crimes warrant it. That is a very high standard. They would need to see clear and convincing proof so serious that if they ignore it they won't get reelected.

Have you forgotten the rules? Only a House majority in needed for impeachment, and a Senate super-majority is needed for conviction.

Both Ken Starr and Muller have proved how far off these Special Prosecutors can go. There's not a man in this country, given time with federal agents, who cannot be convicted of lying. Bill C, Mike Flynn, Popodopolous, and more have all learned this. The threshold standard for Lying is so low. General Flynn was just having a casual conversation about the election with Agent Peter Strzok at the White House, not under oath, nor represented by his atty. Yet we all know that FBI agents like Strzok never lie, so by definition, Flynn is guilty. Not guilty of collusion or obstruction or any actual crime, but guilty of working with Trump, the enemy of the Deep State.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm moved to say : My esteem for Geraldo Rivera has been up and down for a long time. But at the moment it's very high.

On the "not fake news" Fox “The Five” he went off script and said :

“I am ashamed." “The tear gas choked me. We treat these people, these economic refugees, as if they’re zombies from ‘The Walking Dead.’”

“These are desperate people. They walked 2,000 miles. Why? Because they want to rape your daughter or steal your lunch? No! Because they want a job. They want to fill the millions of unfilled jobs we have in the agricultural sector. They want to wash dishes in the restaurants. They want to deliver the pizzas. For goodness sake, we suspend our humanity when it comes to this issue, and I fear that it is because they look different than the mainstream.”

There's the Rivera I once loved.

Will we also see a Photo of you and Geraldo in bed?

[zeek]

From a certain religious standpoint Donald Trump is the Democratic party's bad karma.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

From a certain religious standpoint Donald Trump is the Democratic party's bad karma.

I can agree. When the Democratic platform now demands every member be an atheistic abortionist constantly virtue signaling to the American people, they deserve a philanderer like Bill Clinton, who has repented of his old ways and now confesses faith in God.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you forgotten the rules? Only a House majority in needed for impeachment, and a Senate super-majority is needed for conviction.

Both Ken Starr and Muller have proved how far off these Special Prosecutors can go. There's not a man in this country, given time with federal agents, who cannot be convicted of lying. Bill C, Mike Flynn, Popodopolous, and more have all learned this. The threshold standard for Lying is so low. General Flynn was just having a casual conversation about the election with Agent Peter Strzok at the White House, not under oath, nor represented by his atty. Yet we all know that FBI agents like Strzok never lie, so by definition, Flynn is guilty. Not guilty of collusion or obstruction or any actual crime, but guilty of working with Trump, the enemy of the Deep State.

Yes, Clinton was impeached but not convicted. So that is your concern an impeachment hearing that results in him not being convicted?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I can agree. When the Democratic platform now demands every member be an atheistic abortionist constantly virtue signaling to the American people, they deserve a philanderer like Bill Clinton, who has repented of his old ways and now confesses faith in God.

I also agree, ever since Taft the Democratic party has been trying to prevent the workers from voting for socialist candidates. Govt policies don't make sense if you think they represent the people, when 80% of those people are simply working men. Socialized medicine should be a no brainer. If Bernie Sanders were the head of the party that would make sense, but the Democratic party is the biggest fraud pretending to do the bidding of the workers. Seriously, the Clinton's were broke when He left office and retired, but in 14 years since then, working on a govt salary and pension, they are worth over $100 million.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, Clinton was impeached but not convicted. So that is your concern an impeachment hearing that results in him not being convicted?

I mentioned that to clarify things. Most believe that impeachment alone removes the President from office.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I also agree, ever since Taft the Democratic party has been trying to prevent the workers from voting for socialist candidates. Govt policies don't make sense if you think they represent the people, when 80% of those people are simply working men. Socialized medicine should be a no brainer. If Bernie Sanders were the head of the party that would make sense, but the Democratic party is the biggest fraud pretending to do the bidding of the workers. Seriously, the Clinton's were broke when He left office and retired, but in 14 years since then, working on a govt salary and pension, they are worth over $100 million.

It would take awhile to unpack all of this.

The Democratic Party cares for votes, not the actual workers or their families. Look at Trump's reaction to GM's closing plants in the US, and not in China. He genuinely cares for these workers losing their jobs. He is one of the few Presidents who actually fights every day to deliver on campaign promises.

For 8 years the Unions solicited the Obama Admin to approve the Keystone and Dakota Access pipelines. Good, well-paid union jobs! Yet Obama told them that welfare and food stamps was good enough. Hillary never planned to reverse that policy, in fact she told coal miners as much. That's why Trump was elected. The Dems will never admit that.

Jobs! Ironically, Bill Clinton ran on a similar policy during the recession of '91-'92. Unfortunately Clinton won because of Ross Perot.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Look at Trump's reaction to GM's closing plants in the US, and not in China. He genuinely cares for these workers losing their jobs.

Apparently you're blind to Trump's overblown ego, and how everything is all about him. In this statement concerning GM he reveals that :

“They better damn well open a new plant there very quickly. I told them, ‘you’re playing around with the wrong person.’”

Like you seem to be inclined to do, Trump takes it personal. It's about him, and how it makes him look.

Basically, he's been played by GM, and it makes him look bad. That's what Trump cares about. He's got to look like a winning reality TV star. Instead GM makes him look like a fool.

GM has a history of playing the government. Now they played Trump. He's an easy mark. Just flatter him, and he'll play into your hands.

[zeek]

Cindy Hyde-Smith Says She Never Lost Faith in Mississippi’s Racists

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...sippis-racists

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Cindy Hyde-Smith Says She Never Lost Faith in Mississippi’s Racists

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...sippis-racists

Not surprising .....

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Apparently you're blind to Trump's overblown ego, and how everything is all about him. In this statement concerning GM he reveals that :

“They better damn well open a new plant there very quickly. I told them, ‘you’re playing around with the wrong person.’”

Like you seem to be inclined to do, Trump takes it personal. It's about him, and how it makes him look.

Basically, he's been played by GM, and it makes him look bad. That's what Trump cares about. He's got to look like a winning reality TV star. Instead GM makes him look like a fool.

GM has a history of playing the government. Now they played Trump. He's an easy mark. Just flatter him, and he'll play into your hands.

All powerful men have huge egos. Clinton and Kennedy used their monster egos while in office to charm all the ladies. Having an ego is a given, and granted, years ago Trump also used his ego on the ladies.

But as President, I am concerned about how their ego is being used. When Obama's ego was bruised, he sneakily weaponized government resources to attack his political enemies. President Trump, however, uses his ego to protect America, strengthen the border, increase jobs, provide safer cities, better trade policies, etc. That's why I support him.

Obama gave $Trillions to Wall Street and Detroit in order to bail them out. Wall Street provided few Main St. jobs, and GM took their jobs abroad. Why didn't GM's CEO close GM's plants in China? Did China bail them out? Why screw American workers to please shareholders?

Trump is right to call out GM's CEO. Sorry if you got offended by that.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

All powerful men have huge egos. Clinton and Kennedy used their monster egos while in office to charm all the ladies. Having an ego is a given, and granted, years ago Trump also used his ego on the ladies.

But as President, I am concerned about how their ego is being used. When Obama's ego was bruised, he sneakily weaponized government resources to attack his political enemies. President Trump, however, uses his ego to protect America, strengthen the border, increase jobs, provide safer cities, better trade policies, etc. That's why I support him.

Obama gave $Trillions to Wall Street and Detroit in order to bail them out. Wall Street provided few Main St. jobs, and GM took their jobs abroad. Why didn't GM's CEO close GM's plants in China? Did China bail them out? Why screw American workers to please shareholders?

Trump is right to call out GM's CEO. Sorry if you got offended by that.

That Trump uses his ego to bully offends me. You'll prolly like this by Trump too :

Trump shares image calling for his opponents to face trials for ‘treason’

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ace-trials-for

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That Trump uses his ego to bully offends me. You'll prolly like this by Trump too :

Nothing Donald Trump has said caused me to believe that these folks are guilty of treason. It is what they have said and done as reported by real journalists, has convinced me of their guilt. It's too bad your mind is closed and locked to the facts of history.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Great point, so then what is the proper way to treat people storming the gate?

Awareness?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Great point, so then what is the proper way to treat people storming the gate?

During the Obama admin tear gas was used dozens and dozens of times. On women and children too. But now that Trump is Prez, tear gas is no longer available to use because we hold Trump to a higher standard.

Same thing happened when children on the border were placed in "cages." It was fine for Obama to do it, but now we hold Trump to a higher standard.

Except for their double standards, the Left would have no standards at all.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

During the Obama admin tear gas was used dozens and dozens of times. On women and children too. But now that Trump is Prez, tear gas is no longer available to use because we hold Trump to a higher standard.

Same thing happened when children on the border were placed in "cages." It was fine for Obama to do it, but now we hold Trump to a higher standard.

Except for their double standards, the Left would have no standards at all.

Yes, I was hoping Awareness would reveal this much better method to us since he is the one that talked about how horrible the border guards were for guarding the border.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's too bad your mind is closed and locked to the facts of history.

I know. Or I'd hate all liberals like you.

I do have a life long history with fundamentalist Christian's. So I'm use to Christians that love to hate one or more groups of people ... and that demonize them. Remember, I have extended family of Southern Baptist's that I love, that are outspoken racists. Christians that hate are nothing new to me. I grew up with one.

Christians that hate is the reason I left the SBC. It took me years to find Christians that don't hate ... like the Meetinghouse Quakers.

Maybe you need to study the history of Christianity, so you can learn how ugly such hate looks and is. It gives Jesus a bad name.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I know. Or I'd hate all liberals like you.

I do have a life long history with fundamentalist Christian's. So I'm use to Christians that love to hate one or more groups of people ... and that demonize them. Remember, I have extended family of Southern Baptist's that I love, that are outspoken racists. Christians that hate are nothing new to me. I grew up with one.

Christians that hate is the reason I left the SBC. It took me years to find Christians that don't hate ... like the Meetinghouse Quakers.

Maybe you need to study the history of Christianity, so you can learn how ugly such hate looks and is. It gives Jesus a bad name.

I don't hate liberals, I just disagree with their beliefs and policies. I do hate the hypocrisy though. I have some fundamental differences with their zeal for abortion and atheism.

I am not justifying the attitudes of all Christians, and some are quite disgusting, but you have not seen hatred until you watch ANTIFA in action.

Since you have had bad experiences with family members, have you now decided to hate all Christians? Perhaps living in a Muslam community might give you some new perspective. I understand there are some near Detroit.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I don't hate liberals, I just disagree with their beliefs and policies. I do hate the hypocrisy though. I have some fundamental differences with their zeal for abortion and atheism.

Zeal for abortion and atheism? I know you're emotionally invested when it comes abortion, that's obvious. But 'zeal' is a straw man.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I am not justifying the attitudes of all Christians, and some are quite disgusting, but you have not seen hatred until you watch ANTIFA in action.

I expect it out of antifa, and the fascists, but not out of Christians.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Since you have had bad experiences with family members, have you now decided to hate all Christians? Perhaps living in a Muslam community might give you some new perspective. I understand there are some near Detroit.

Yeah, Dearborn, my old stomping ground, has been taken over by Muslims. But are you comparing Christianity to Islam? There are similarities. And I disagree with hate from both of them.

And my family? Even to I disagree with their racism and hate I still love them. Is that the way you love liberals? You know what Jesus and Paul said about love. Love should override our politics. The only thing Christians should hate is hate.

[awareness]

Individual 1-in-Chief :

New evidence from two separate fronts of special counsel Robert Mueller III's investigation casts fresh doubts on Trump's version of key events involving Russia, signaling potential political and legal peril for the president. Investigators have now publicly cast Trump as a central figure of their probe into whether Trump's campaign conspired with the Russian government during the 2016 campaign.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...f-13432906.php

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Zeal for abortion and atheism? I know you're emotionally invested when it comes abortion, that's obvious. But 'zeal' is a straw man?

And my family? Even to I disagree with their racism and hate I still love them. Is that the way you love liberals? You know what Jesus and Paul said about love. Love should override our politics. The only thing Christians should hate is hate.

I love and pray for liberals, many of whom are quite close to me.

I have other conservative family members who won't waste time trying to engage them. Unfortunately Leftist views can hinder and destroy what little faith they have towards God. The Left promotes the religion of atheism and racist hatred, which hinders all faith in God. I have seen it destroy the faith of many young people, and often has to be addressed before they can even hear the Gospel.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Individual 1-in-Chief :

New evidence from two separate fronts of special counsel Robert Mueller III's investigation casts fresh doubts on Trump's version of key events involving Russia, signaling potential political and legal peril for the president. Investigators have now publicly cast Trump as a central figure of their probe into whether Trump's campaign conspired with the Russian government during the 2016 campaign.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...f-13432906.php

You have been told this lie for two years, when will you begin to think for yourself?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You have been told this lie for two years, when will you begin to think for yourself?

Thanks for your concern. Do you mean, stop reading the news, and start believing everything Trump says? Will I then be thinking for myself?

[ZNPaaneah]

I think Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson illustrate much of what we see.

Teddy Roosevelt was someone who promoted "manly" ventures like war, and had a big impact on building up the US navy. He wanted us to be an imperial power and was involved in our getting the Philippines as a US territory. Some complained of his heavy handed way in which he built the Panama Canal.

Woodrow Wilson, by contrast wanted to keep us out of WW1, he was the one who wanted the league of nations, he had a 14 point peace plan that was much less punitive than the Peace plan forced on Germany. Woodrow Wilson is very similar to many liberal elites, top education, pacifists, etc.

However, Teddy Roosevelt was far more effective as a peace maker than Woodrow Wilson and I think it can be argued that WWII can in large part be blamed on the peace treaty and that failure should certainly be credited to Woodrow Wilson. His failure was this: when he agreed to enter into the war as an ally to Britain and France he should have made a covenant with them about how the peace would be made. That was when he had maximum leverage because if we didn't enter they would very likely lose. But his lack of experience of fighting meant he didn't understand the whole process. He didn't realize that the minute the US entered the balance was changed so greatly that the outcome could easily be predicted. His whole reason for entering was a good peace treaty, that was his end game. But he didn't understand bullies and didn't understand the inclination of Britain and France to bully Germany, especially since they knew they couldn't have won without the US, since that wasn't a guarantee they needed to tip the balance in their favor. In contrast Teddy Roosevelt had been bullied as a kid, transformed himself, and went after bullies for the rest of his life. He fully understood the process, how it would play out, and how to get to the end game.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Thanks for your concern. Do you mean, stop reading the news, and start believing everything Trump says? Will I then be thinking for myself?

Hardly. Forget what Trump says. Read one of the many books being written by those who are not Trump haters. Here's one. Spygate by Bongino, former Secret Service Agent to Obama.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hardly. Forget what Trump says. Read one of the many books being written by those who are not Trump haters. Here's one. Spygate by Bongino, former Secret Service Agent to Obama.

Thanks, but could have gotten that promotion from :

“An explosive account of the biggest scandal in American history, and the political players that tried to pull it off.”—Sean Hannity

And does the fact that he worked for Obama give him more credibility?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Thanks, but could have gotten that promotion from :

“An explosive account of the biggest scandal in American history, and the political players that tried to pull it off.”—Sean Hannity

And does the fact that he worked for Obama give him more credibility?

Perhaps the truth is too dangerous for you to handle.

[ZNPaaneah]

My personal experience of Bush --

My father cancelled a deal where UPI was going to buy a news agency in Florida. Bush was in charge of the CIA and called my dad into his office. He asked my dad to reconsider. He said he couldn't because the news agency was simply a front for the CIA and if he bought them then the Russians could claim his reporters were spies and arrest them. Bush didn't deny this, instead he said that it would be very good for my dad's career if he would just look the other way. My dad didn't and was forced to leave UPI. He went to the NY Times and shortly thereafter (a year or so) he left there. The blurb in the paper said he left due to a difference of opinion concerning policy. (Although my dad didn't elaborate I believe it was due to a special report they were writing on the JFK assassination which has since been shown to be nothing more than fake news from the CIA as part of a disinformation campaign).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

My personal experience of Bush --

I lost a lot of respect for the Bush family, father and sons, after they publicly criticized the Trump presidency. They broke their long-standing policy which they adhered to during the Clinton and Obama years.

Right after Bush #41 spoke out, reports surfaced that he had this nasty habit of groping the girls from below.

Folks can say what they want about President Trump, but his unwavering defense of Israel, including the move of our embassy to Jerusalem, has caught the attention of Him on the throne.

We have heard much recently about the horrendous murder of Jamal Khashoggi. The media's incentive here has little to do with their love for him. Rather it is all about how Saudi Arabia and Trump are aligned with Israel against Iran. Don't forget that Obama's chief advisor was Valerie Jarrett, who was born in Iran to parents who were hardcore communists.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Don't forget that Obama's chief advisor was Valerie Jarrett, who was born in Iran to parents who were hardcore communists.

Like Melania ... 'cept from Slovenia.

The rest of your post, or a lot of it, is baloney.

[ZNPaaneah]

The undeniable bottom line is that the CIA has completely inserted themselves into our media. This appears to have several impacts:

1. Disinformation -- designed to confuse issues. For example billions of dollars were spent to prevent research on JFK assassination and other significant geopolitical events.

2. Ridiculous amounts of attention given to insignificant stories as a distraction (look at the three biggest stories since JFK -- OJ, Monica, and Jon Benet Ramsey).

3. Bitter ideological debates designed to divide and conquer the electorate.

4. Bury stories so they never see the light of day. (Buy the rights and then refuse to publish).

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Folks can say what they want about President Trump, but his unwavering defense of Israel, including the move of our embassy to Jerusalem, has caught the attention of Him on the throne.

Trump has nothing to do with wanting Jesus to come back.

And any Christian that compromises Christian principles by not being against what Israel is doing to the Palestinians will be disappointed when Jesus doesn't return for them.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump has nothing to do with wanting Jesus to come back.

And any Christian that compromises Christian principles by not being against what Israel is doing to the Palestinians will be disappointed when Jesus doesn't return for them.

The nation of Israel is the best thing going for the Palestinians. Israel provides jobs, justice, opportunity. The Palestinians biggest enemies are Hamas and the Iranians. Just ask the people in Palestine, they will tell you.

Trump supports Israel, and her defense. Unfortunately you appear to disdain Israel. Why is that? Israel has laws and is a democratic. Their women have rights. Compare that to Muslam nations, where women are slaves, without rights.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

The rest of your post, or a lot of it, is baloney.

FBI Files Document Communism in Valerie Jarrett’s Family

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) files obtained by Judicial Watch reveal that the dad, maternal grandpa and father-in-law of President Obama’s trusted senior advisor, Valerie Jarrett, were hardcore Communists under investigation by the U.S. government.

Jarrett’s dad, pathologist and geneticist Dr. James Bowman, had extensive ties to Communist associations and individuals, his lengthy FBI file shows. In 1950 Bowman was in communication with a paid Soviet agent named Alfred Stern, who fled to Prague after getting charged with espionage. Bowman was also a member of a Communist-sympathizing group called the Association of Internes and Medical Students. After his discharge from the Army Medical Corps in 1955, Bowman moved to Iran to work, the FBI records show.

According to Bowman’s government file the Association of Internes and Medical Students is an organization that “has long been a faithful follower of the Communist Party line” and engages in un-American activities. Bowman was born in Washington D.C. and had deep ties to Chicago, where he often collaborated with fellow Communists. JW also obtained documents on Bowman from the U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) showing that the FBI was brought into investigate him for his membership in a group that “follows the communist party line.” The Jarrett family Communist ties also include a business partnership between Jarrett’s maternal grandpa, Robert Rochon Taylor, and Stern, the Soviet agent associated with her dad.

Jarrett’s father-in-law, Vernon Jarrett, was also another big-time Chicago Communist, according to separate FBI files obtained by JW as part of a probe into the Jarrett family’s Communist ties. For a period of time Vernon Jarrett appeared on the FBI’s Security Index and was considered a potential Communist saboteur who was to be arrested in the event of a conflict with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). His FBI file reveals that he was assigned to write propaganda for a Communist Party front group in Chicago that would “disseminate the Communist Party line among…the middle class.”

It’s been well documented that Valerie Jarrett, a Chicago lawyer and longtime Obama confidant, is a liberal extremist who wields tremendous power in the White House. Faithful to her roots, she still has connections to many Communist and extremist groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood. Jarrett and her family also had strong ties to Frank Marshal Davis, a big Obama mentor and Communist Party member with an extensive FBI file.

JW has exposed Valerie Jarrett’s many transgressions over the years, including her role in covering up a scandalous gun-running operation carried out by the Department of Justice (DOJ). Last fall JW obtained public records that show Jarrett was a key player in the effort to cover up that Attorney General Eric Holder lied to Congress about the Fast and Furious, a disastrous experiment in which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (ATF) allowed guns from the U.S. to be smuggled into Mexico so they could eventually be traced to drug cartels. Instead, federal law enforcement officers lost track of hundreds of weapons which have been used in an unknown number of crimes, including the murder of a U.S. Border Patrol agent in Arizona.

In 2008 JW got documents linking Valerie Jarrett, who also served as co-chairman of Obama’s presidential transition team, to a series of real estate scandals, including several housing projects operated by convicted felon and Obama fundraiser/friend Antoin “Tony” Rezko. According to the documents obtained from the Illinois Secretary of State, Valerie Jarrett served as a board member for several organizations that provided funding and support for Chicago slum projects operated by Rezko.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I lost a lot of respect for the Bush family, father and sons, after they publicly criticized the Trump presidency.

For those against "dirty politics" seems they should be saying something about the legacy of Bush. Yes the Gulf war is a big part but let's make sure we really know the full story.

The year before our military invaded Panama and took Noriega because apparently he was selling drugs. The reality was this was a dress rehearsal for the Gulf war. They tested out all kinds of military hardware including stealth fighters, smart bombs and even lasers. They also worked on shutting out the press from reporting on any of it. Noriega was a CIA contact of Bush that he was more than happy to double cross. What they really accomplished was not about drugs (which we now know was as much a CIA operation as anything) but rather a way to annul the agreement Carter made to give Panama control of the canal.

The Gulf war was the same. Bush did the double cross on Saddam giving him a wink that suggested he could take Kuwait without the US intervening.

Not sure what Bush accomplished besides a trillion dollar war that we are still fighting almost 30 years later.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The nation of Israel is the best thing going for the Palestinians. Israel provides jobs, justice, opportunity. The Palestinians biggest enemies are Hamas and the Iranians. Just ask the people in Palestine, they will tell you.

Trump supports Israel, and her defense. Unfortunately you appear to disdain Israel. Why is that? Israel has laws and is a democratic. Their women have rights. Compare that to Muslam nations, where women are slaves, without rights.

These maps don't lie :

Palestinian Loss of Land: 1946 - 2012

http://auphr.org/index.php/news/5100...land-1946-2012

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

These maps don't lie :

Palestinian Loss of Land: 1946 - 2012

http://auphr.org/index.php/news/5100...land-1946-2012

Of course they lie.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

FBI Files Document Communism in Valerie Jarrett’s Family

More whataboutism from shill for amoral mutant Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

More whataboutism from shill for amoral mutant Trump.

So now you too are suspicious about the FBI? What an incredible turn of events!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it does fascinate me how you fine folks on the LEFT can justify the slaughter of the unborn, and yet call an upright man, like President Trump, "amoral" for opposing abortion with the appointment of Justice Kavanaugh.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So now you too are suspicious about the FBI? What an incredible turn of events!

It's not the deep state that worries me, it's the surface state.

Originally Posted by Ohio

But it does fascinate me how you fine folks on the LEFT . . .

I'm glad I'm not one of those awful folks on the left. I'm a center extremist.

Originally Posted by Ohio

. . . can justify the slaughter of the unborn . . .

Not the unborn card again. Like I, or you, have anything to do with the unborn. Well I suppose it is possible that you've gone and knocked up some fertile young maiden. Then, if it's an unwanted child, you'd be the one that produced the need for an abortion. That would explain your inordinate obsession with the unborn.

It's funny how conservatives rile against abortion, until they produce a love child.

Originally Posted by Ohio

, and yet call an upright man, like President Trump . . .

Now you've gone and done it : Bahahahahaha

Thanks for the belly laugh.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's not the deep state that worries me, it's the surface state.

I'm glad I'm not one of those awful folks on the left. I'm a center extremist.

It's funny how conservatives rile against abortion, until they produce a love child.

Now you've gone and done it : Bahahahahaha

Thanks for the belly laugh.

True to form, my good friend awareness finds one hypocritical Republican, i.e. PA Rep. Tim Murphy, so he can condemn them all.

Ahhh yes, a true "center extremist" worried about the surface state.

[zeek]

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and Donald Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and Donald Trump.

Then why don't you start by believing God and His word?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then why don't you start by believing God and His word?

...asked a servant of Donald Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

...asked a servant of Donald Trump.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I know. I don't like it either. But, Ohio has been carrying water for Trump, who is Mammon Incarnate, on this very thread for years now and presumably without even getting paid for it!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I know. I don't like it either. But, Ohio has been carrying water for Trump, who is Mammon Incarnate, on this very thread for years now and presumably without even getting paid for it!

But zeek's idols, those other wealthy $Billionaires who financed Socialist Democrats all across the nation, including his own boy Gillam, they are not "Mammon Incarnate."

That God for zeek's altruistic leftist gods, like Steyer, Oprah, Soros, Bloomberg, etc.

Like I said many times, I would rather have a successful and patriotic business man "buy" the Presidency, than a jobless community organizer "sell" the Presidency to foreign powers. Tell me again how Obama can make $400K for 8 years and leave a Billionaire.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I know. I don't like it either. But, Ohio has been carrying water for Trump, who is Mammon Incarnate, on this very thread for years now and presumably without even getting paid for it!

I am completely unconvinced. With Bush's recent death I am reminded of his "kinder gentler" campaign at the very same time he is putting a knife in the back of Noriega, bombing Panama, a dirt poor country, reneging on Carter's agreement to give the Panama canal to Panama, and then setting up Saddam Hussein so we could blow them to bits as well.

Which is worse a mealy mouthed "kinder gentler" thousand points of light bearer -- who is a deceitful backstabber who gets us into a trillion dollar boondoggle killing all kinds of inner city kids (not him, not his kids).

When I compare Trump's known sins to Bush he does not seem nearly so evil.

You were the one quoting verses from Matthew:

"27 For as the lightning goes forth from the east and shines to the west, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
28 [For] wherever the carcase is, there will be gathered the eagles."

CNN sends the image of the Gulf War to us at the speed of light. It began a new age of news zipping around the world at the speed of light 24 hours a day.

Saddam was the carcase in the wilderness. The US and the air force assembled against him by Bush were the eagles (vultures).

All governments on this earth are either a dead carcase or a vulture. Complaining that the president is a "vulture" is simply becoming aware of the reality.

This prophecy demonstrates how much improvement the scientific, industrial and technological revolutions would make over 2,000 years and also how corrupt governments would still be after 2,000 years. The only solution to corrupt leaders is the Lord Jesus.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But zeek's idols, those other wealthy $Billionaires who financed Socialist Democrats all across the nation, including his own boy Gillam, they are not "Mammon Incarnate."

That God for zeek's altruistic leftist gods, like Steyer, Oprah, Soros, Bloomberg, etc.

Like I said many times, I would rather have a successful and patriotic business man "buy" the Presidency, than a jobless community organizer "sell" the Presidency to foreign powers. Tell me again how Obama can make $400K for 8 years and leave a Billionaire.

Suffice it to say that whereas by parroting Fox News, Breitbart and other extremist sources Mr. Ohio has with few exceptions defended Trump for years on this very thread you will be hard pressed to find me defending the immoral behavior of any of the people he claims are my "gods".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Suffice it to say that whereas by parroting Fox News, Breitbart and other extremist sources Mr. Ohio has with few exceptions defended Trump for years on this very thread you will be hard pressed to find me defending the immoral behavior of any of the people he claims are my "gods".

I do prefer accurate sources. Sources that own up to error, and those that value journalistic integrity. If they are conservative and labled "extremist" then so be it.

It's so easy for you to stand up for nothing, and attack everyone and everything else, including those who try to do good. But, as they say, those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.

I do take a lot of heat on alt-views for standing up for the integrity of the word of God and for conservative leaders. I find it humorous watching leftist media outlets today using G.H.W. Bush's character and leadership integrity to again attack Trump. When Bush was alive, they hated him. They have repeated this pattern since Eisenhower. They hated "W" until Trump came along. One day they will extol Trump while trashing some future conservative President.

Some never will see thru the hypocrisy.

It should be troubling to all decent people today watching how leftist media sources constantly take positions contrary to Trump, just to smear him. Obama was once for a border wall, once for the defense of marriage, once for moving the US Embassy to Israel, once for granting DACA's a pathway to citizenship, etc. etc. and the Left constantly gave him a pass. But when Trump now acts on Obama's former platform, the Left goes apoplectic, as if Trump acted on some new policy.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am completely unconvinced. With Bush's recent death I am reminded of his "kinder gentler" campaign at the very same time he is putting a knife in the back of Noriega, bombing Panama, a dirt poor country, reneging on Carter's agreement to give the Panama canal to Panama, and then setting up Saddam Hussein so we could blow them to bits as well.

Which is worse a mealy mouthed "kinder gentler" thousand points of light bearer -- who is a deceitful backstabber who gets us into a trillion dollar boondoggle killing all kinds of inner city kids (not him, not his kids).

When I compare Trump's known sins to Bush he does not seem nearly so evil.

You were the one quoting verses from Matthew:

"27 For as the lightning goes forth from the east and shines to the west, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
28 [For] wherever the carcase is, there will be gathered the eagles."

CNN sends the image of the Gulf War to us at the speed of light. It began a new age of news zipping around the world at the speed of light 24 hours a day.

Saddam was the carcase in the wilderness. The US and the air force assembled against him by Bush were the eagles (vultures).

All governments on this earth are either a dead carcase or a vulture. Complaining that the president is a "vulture" is simply becoming aware of the reality.

This prophecy demonstrates how much improvement the scientific, industrial and technological revolutions would make over 2,000 years and also how corrupt governments would still be after 2,000 years. The only solution to corrupt leaders is the Lord Jesus.

You're certainly entitled to your political opinion AND your poetic interpretation.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

One day they will extol Trump while trashing some future conservative President.

If there comes a day when a president makes us look back and miss Trump, he'll be a dictator, like Putin ... and many others. And that president will not make America great again. Let's hope that's not the future of America.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Some never will see thru the hypocrisy.

It definitely discredits them in my eyes.

Originally Posted by Ohio

It should be troubling to all decent people today watching how leftist media sources constantly take positions contrary to Trump, just to smear him. Obama was once for a border wall, once for the defense of marriage, once for moving the US Embassy to Israel, once for granting DACA's a pathway to citizenship, etc. etc. and the Left constantly gave him a pass. But when Trump now acts on Obama's former platform, the Left goes apoplectic, as if Trump acted on some new policy.

It is troubling to me that some of these outlets feel obligated to hate all things Trump. They lose credibility.

For example, Herbert Hoover was one of the most respected businessmen when elected president, yet our opinion of him as president was terrible to mediocre at best. On the other hand FDR may be vilified for his policies but most everyone has to agree he was one of the top ten presidents in US history, perhaps even top 5. He navigated the US through both the Depression and WWII and had a very neat handoff to a very capable successor. FDR was a much more skilled politician than Hoover, though in many other respects not as successful.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I do prefer accurate sources. Sources that own up to error, and those that value journalistic integrity. If they are conservative and labled "extremist" then so be it.

It's so easy for you to stand up for nothing, and attack everyone and everything else, including those who try to do good. But, as they say, those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.

I do take a lot of heat on alt-views for standing up for the integrity of the word of God and for conservative leaders. I find it humorous watching leftist media outlets today using G.H.W. Bush's character and leadership integrity to again attack Trump. When Bush was alive, they hated him. They have repeated this pattern since Eisenhower. They hated "W" until Trump came along. One day they will extol Trump while trashing some future conservative President.

Some never will see thru the hypocrisy.

It should be troubling to all decent people today watching how leftist media sources constantly take positions contrary to Trump, just to smear him. Obama was once for a border wall, once for the defense of marriage, once for moving the US Embassy to Israel, once for granting DACA's a pathway to citizenship, etc. etc. and the Left constantly gave him a pass. But when Trump now acts on Obama's former platform, the Left goes apoplectic, as if Trump acted on some new policy.

I can understand your turn to right wing media due to your childhood disappointment with liberal democracy. The question is whether you have just turned to sources that tell you what you want to hear or whether you are pursuing objective facts and thinking critically about what you learn from all sources. If people don't recognize that Trump is pursuing the policies of Obama perhaps they would be helped if Trump ever gave Obama an ounce of credit for anything instead of blame for everything. But of course the pendulum swing that characterizes the two party bipolar disordered partisanship in this country didn't start with Trump. He just exacerbated it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I can understand your turn to right wing media due to your childhood disappointment with liberal democracy. The question is whether you have just turned to sources that tell you what you want to hear or whether you are pursuing objective facts and thinking critically about what you learn from all sources. If people don't recognize that Trump is pursuing the policies of Obama perhaps they would be helped if Trump ever gave Obama an ounce of credit for anything instead of blame for everything. But of course the pendulum swing that characterizes the two party bipolar disordered partisanship in this country didn't start with Trump. He just exacerbated it.

First, liberal "democracy" did not "fail me" when Roe was decided in 1973, it was judicial activism on the highest court.

Politics is nasty business. I just heard a story of Dole and Bush 41 -- at one time they had such a heated political contest, yet Dole stood to salute him. Bush41 said, "politics is what we do, it does not define us." Bill Clinton is another politician who rose above the fray to befriend former combatants, and put politics aside. Apparently Trump and the Bush family have long put differences aside. Kavanaugh was confirmed due to Bush 43's efforts.

Regarding Obama, he has changed, at least regarding certain policies I mentioned. That was my earlier point.

I'm not sure which is worse, media or politics. They fuel each other. The arrival of cable news, and now social media, has only made things more toxic.

I view things, not as a line with left and right, but as a circle where left and right meet on the other side. Many liberal views match libertarian views. Some of Trump's policies, eg trade, union jobs, infrastructure, getting out of foreign wars, etc. were very similar to Bernie Sanders and Sharrod Brown, yet politics prevents them from working together on policy. Except for Joe Manchin, no Democrat dares to side with Trump.

Regarding objective news sources, I have studied way too much regarding Trump and Mueller. I have studied Mueller's history as a prosecutor, and it ain't pretty. It is extremely disappointing what I never hear from the media. Anyways, there's little chance that I can ever persuade you on this, but as Americans we all should be concerned with "process crimes."

[zeek]

duplicate post--but a damn good one.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Regarding objective news sources, I have studied way too much regarding Trump and Mueller. I have studied Mueller's history as a prosecutor, and it ain't pretty. It is extremely disappointing what I never hear from the media. Anyways, there's little chance that I can ever persuade you on this, but as Americans we all should be concerned with "process crimes."

The history of appointing special or independent prosecutors has become quite dangerous to our American system. The Founders never envisioned this. Neither Starr nor Mueller ever accomplished their original directives, unless their real mission was purely political. Both concluded their investigations with "process crimes," aka as "perjury traps."

Clinton was never convicted of Whitewater crimes, rather for lying to protect himself and his marriage. Flynn pled guilty to lying because he was broke. The real message here is never talk to the FBI or federal prosecutors. Plead the Fifth. If you don't, you can be convicted. Not for actually lying about a crime, but for misremembering or forgetting something, or for protecting your family.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

First, liberal "democracy" did not "fail me" when Roe was decided in 1973, it was judicial activism on the highest court.

It was unrighteous and unconstitutional. Anyone who supports this decision comes across as someone who will allow their bias to justify anything.

In my opinion it is undeniable that this is a religious issue and therefore is not under the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court and rather should be decided by each individual State. Likewise, who is the Supreme court to decide when a baby is or is not human? Everything about this decision to me is an outrage.

There have been some very horrendous decisions by the Supreme Court: Dredd Scott and Roe v Wade are two of the most heinous.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The history of appointing special or independent prosecutors has become quite dangerous to our American system. The Founders never envisioned this. Neither Starr nor Mueller ever accomplished their original directives, unless their real mission was purely political. Both concluded their investigations with "process crimes," aka as "perjury traps."

Clinton was never convicted of Whitewater crimes, rather for lying to protect himself and his marriage. Flynn pled guilty to lying because he was broke. The real message here is never talk to the FBI or federal prosecutors. Plead the Fifth. If you don't, you can be convicted. Not for actually lying about a crime, but for misremembering or forgetting something, or for protecting your family.

This is true and don't know what the solution is. But if we are going to talk about special investigators you have to include Nixon and Watergate.

Too much politics. We have taken financial policy out of the hands of the politicians, we should do the same with these special investigations. Perhaps judges with a lifetime appointment, dare I say the Supreme court, should have to determine if a special prosecutor is necessary and if so oversee an investigation. Senate has to call for it, Supreme court has to decide it is warranted, and Congress has to fund it. That would prevent highly partisan politics from controlling the process.

I am also going to be very disgusted if the sum total of Mueller's findings is that Trump is a shady businessman who does business with people who lie to investigators. We knew that before he even started.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It was unrighteous and unconstitutional. Anyone who supports this decision comes across as someone who will allow their bias to justify anything.

In my opinion it is undeniable that this is a religious issue and therefore is not under the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court and rather should be decided by each individual State. Likewise, who is the Supreme court to decide when a baby is or is not human? Everything about this decision to me is an outrage.

There have been some very horrendous decisions by the Supreme Court: Dredd Scott and Roe v Wade are two of the most heinous.

It was truly incredible how many lies were used to deceive the Court over Roe, but then again, perhaps Burger had decided to act long before Roe came to the court.

Never saw a "Living Document" shed so much blood.

History shows us that Ted Kennedy killed Mary Jo Kopechne and "Borked" Roe v. Wadw.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am also going to be very disgusted if the sum total of Mueller's findings is that Trump is a shady businessman who does business with people who lie to investigators. We knew that before he even started.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find another kind of successful businessman. Do you think Manafort is any worse than the Podesta brothers? Did Comey, McCabe, Lynch, Yates, Holder, Strzok, Page, etc. never lie to investigators?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I think you would be hard-pressed to find another kind of successful businessman. Do you think Manafort is any worse than the Podesta brothers? Did Comey, McCabe, Lynch, Yates, Holder, Strzok, Page, etc. never lie to investigators?

Which is the point. Anyone who is in that position of power would not be able to go through that 2 year investigation without some embarrassing revelations. That is why they should not allow this to be used as a political weapon.

Another reason why these investigations should not be done in public. To the best of our ability we want a non partisan, non political appointee that is completely independent. Perhaps they could even require that the appointee for prosecutor not be a government employee. Since all prosecutors are that would be an interesting twist. But if the lawyer assigned was doing this as a civic duty and was eager to return to his lucrative practice that could also help avoid this political circus.

We should always expect, whether innocent or guilty, that these investigations will take years because you are investigating the most powerful people in the country with vast funds and plenty of counselors and experience. It is irresponsible to do this as theater.

In addition there should be forgiveness so that the prosecutor would be feared. This prosecutor should have the authority to forgive a witness for testimony relevant to the case that admits guilt in something outside of the scope of the investigation. This way we could eliminate the people lying for trivial reasons. If this was done in a closed door by this prosecutor (no politicians) that could be sued in the event they leak any of the revelations would also encourage them to be honest about non relevant matters. In this way the only real danger is if you lie and can now be convicted of obstruction when there was no downside to telling the truth and the possible upside that this prosecutor would "forgive" you of misdemeanor crimes not relevant to his scope.

[zeek]

Trump who pretended to be a Christian to get elected did not recite the Apostle's Creed printed in the program with the rest of the congregation at George HW Bush's funeral.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump who pretended to be a Christian to get elected did not recite the Apostle's Creed printed in the program with the rest of the congregation at George HW Bush's funeral.

One day you lecture us about the separation of church and state, the next day . . .


Did you notice Obama reciting the Koran?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

One day you lecture us about the separation of church and state, the next day . . .


Did you notice Obama reciting the Koran?

Obama recited the Apostles Creed and sang the hymns as did the other ex-presidents in the congregation. Trump didn't sing the hymns either. Maybe he forgot that he posed as a Christian to get elected. Everybody makes mistakes. What does the separation of church and state have to do with it?

[zeek]

Tariffman...who disguised as Donald Trump fights a never ending battle against Truth, Justice and the American Way

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Tariff Man...who disguised as Donald Trump fights a never ending battle against Truth, Justice and the American Way

Wow! have you changed your opinion about Trump? Oops, missed the subtle little change. Guess I got bit by that. Ouch.

I would warn that the only way the US got out of the great depression was through WWII, if Tariffs cause a depression in China, which already has too many men as it is, they also may be faced with only one solution.

[ZNPaaneah]

Arizona, together with our Military and Border Patrol, is bracing for a massive surge at a NON-WALLED area. WE WILL NOT LET THEM THROUGH. Big danger. Nancy and Chuck must approve Boarder Security and the Wall!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 7, 2018

I have a real issue with this. I get why a real estate mogul who probably has lots of boarders would want the government to subsidize his security, but is this really a good use of tax dollars? Also what about boarding school? Those are private schools used by the elite. Now he is planning on subsidizing their security? This is just blatant taking from the poor and giving to the rich. No wonder he waited until after the Midterms to float this idea.

Also we now know why he is so eager about building the wall. It is a threat to his personal maid that he'll deport her if she complains about ironing his drawers.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Arizona, together with our Military and Border Patrol, is bracing for a massive surge at a NON-WALLED area. WE WILL NOT LET THEM THROUGH. Big danger. Nancy and Chuck must approve Boarder Security and the Wall!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 7, 2018

I have a real issue with this. I get why a real estate mogul who probably has lots of boarders would want the government to subsidize his security, but is this really a good use of tax dollars? Also what about boarding school? Those are private schools used by the elite. Now he is planning on subsidizing their security? This is just blatant taking from the poor and giving to the rich. No wonder he waited until after the Midterms to float this idea.

Also we now know why he is so eager about building the wall. It is a threat to his personal maid that he'll deport her if she complains about ironing his drawers.

Do the math.

We have close to 25 million illegal immgrants in the US. Close to 70% live subsidized by the local, state, and gov't agencies. Consider the added cost for all judicial and law enforcement since so many more are criminals.

Border Wall is cheap.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Do the math.

We have close to 25 million illegal immgrants in the US. Close to 70% live subsidized by the local, state, and gov't agencies. Consider the added cost for all judicial and law enforcement since so many more are criminals.

Border Wall is cheap.

But Trump wants boarder protection, or so he frantically twitted this morning.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But Trump wants boarder protection, or so he frantically twitted this morning.

Are you "frantically' posting here again?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Do the math.

We have close to 25 million illegal immgrants in the US. Close to 70% live subsidized by the local, state, and gov't agencies. Consider the added cost for all judicial and law enforcement since so many more are criminals.

Border Wall is cheap.

Not border, boarder security. I don't even have boarders, why should I pay for security for Trump's boarders?

[zeek]

From interview: Tucker Carlson on Trump

The Swiss are very suspicious of anybody who is boastful. That's why I have a question about Trump…

…I hate that about him. I hate that… it's not my culture. I didn't grow up like that.

In your book you speak a lot about people who attack Trump, but you actually don't say very much about Trump's record.

That's true.

Do you think he has kept his promises? Has he achieved his goals?

No.

He hasn't?

No. His chief promises were that he would build the wall, de-fund planned parenthood, and repeal Obamacare, and he hasn't done any of those things. There are a lot of reasons for that, but since I finished writing the book, I've come to believe that Trump's role is not as a conventional president who promises to get certain things achieved to the Congress and then does. I don't think he's capable. I don't think he's capable of sustained focus. I don't think he understands the system. I don't think the Congress is on his side. I don't think his own agencies support him. He's not going to do that.

I think Trump's role is to begin the conversation about what actually matters. We were not having any conversation about immigration before Trump arrived in Washington. People were bothered about it in different places in the country. It's a huge country, but that was not a staple of political debate at all. Trump asked basic questions like' "Why don't our borders work?" “Why should we sign a trade agreement and let the other side cheat?” Or my favorite of all, "What's the point of NATO?" The point of NATO was to keep the Soviets from invading western Europe but they haven't existed in 27 years, so what is the point? These are obvious questions that no one could answer.

Apart from asking these very important questions has he really achieved nothing?

Not much. Not much. Much less than he should have. I've come to believe he's not capable of it.

Why should he be not capable?

Because the legislative process in this country by design is highly complex, and it's designed to be complex as a way of diffusing power, of course, because the people who framed our Constitution, founded our country, were worried about concentrations of power. They balanced it among the three branches as you know and they made it very hard to make legislation. In order to do it you really have to understand how it works and you have to be very focused on getting it done, and he knows very little about the legislative process, hasn't learned anything, hasn't and surrounded himself with people that can get it done, hasn't done all the things you need to do so. It's mostly his fault that he hasn't achieved those things. I'm not in charge of Trump.://www.weltwoche.ch/ausgaben/2018-49/artikel/trump-is-not-capable-die-weltwoche-ausgabe-49-2018.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Engineered coup in Iran because they nationalized BP, coup in Guatemala at request of Chiquita, In 1963 the CIA was working on two other coups, Cuba and Vietnam. In 1973 they helped with the coup in Chile, again on behalf of big business to thwart a socialist regime. This is how the CIA affects foreign policy.

CIA had over 400 paid assets working in our Media from the 50s onward. Major influence over 25 newspapers, the wire services and CBS. Today 6 major corporations own over 95% of the media. That is down from over 1,000 in 1963.

The name of the Bay of Pigs operation for the CIA was “Zapata” the name of George Bush’s oil company, and the name of one of the boats used by the CIA was “Barbara” the name of his wife. Almost makes you think he was involved. Ford was on the Warren commission. LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Bush (and by extension Reagan) were all the recipients of the spoils of the assassination. Likewise these leaders represent the major corporations that were beneficiaries of CIA policy (Big oil, Brown and Root, etc).

As a result of the Bay of Pigs Kennedy said he intended to “break the CIA into a thousand pieces”. He fired some key people. In addition, when he stated that he intended to cut off the intervention in Vietnam that would make the second failure for the CIA and cut off a critical source of income for them. So from that point on JFK was a major threat to the CIA.

The Warren commission report includes 20 pages of testimony from Lee Harvey Oswalds’ baby sitter when he was 3 years old and a study of Jack Ruby’s mothers teeth. It was a ridiculous collection of irrelevant garbage.

We now know that the authors who wrote independent studies on the assassination (which US publishers would not publish but had to be published in Europe and still became bestsellers anyway — Rush to Judgement, etc), these authors were all put under surveillance by both the FBI and CIA (based on recently released documents).

Accessories after the Fact — great book exposing the CIA’s black ops that catalogues and organizes the Warren Commission report. A CIA memo lays out the strategy to discredit the authors and books questioning the official position.

[ZNPaaneah]

Mueller details how Roger Stone, who the special counsel notes was in frequent contact with Donald Trump and senior campaign officials, directed Corsi to connect with WikiLeaks about the trove of stolen materials it received from Russia. Corsi subsequently communicated WikiLeaks’ release plan back to Stone, and the Trump campaign built its final message around the email release. That is collusion.*

Second, we now know that Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen and former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn have provided evidence to Mueller related to collusion. In Cohen’s sentencing memo, Mueller said that Cohen provided his office with “useful information” on “Russia-related matters core to its investigation.” One of those central elements, according to the Justice Department: “any links and/or coordination” between the Kremlin and Trump campaign figures. Collusion, in other words.

Third, Mueller has found evidence that Trump was compromised by a hostile foreign power during the election. In his plea deal, Cohen revealed that Trump had repeatedly lied to voters about the then-candidate’s financial ties to Russia. While Trump claimed during the campaign to have no business dealings with Russia, he was negotiating a wildly lucrative business deal not simply with Russian businessmen, but also involving with the Kremlin itself. Trump’s team even reportedly tried to bribe Russian President Vladimir Putin by offering him a $50 million penthouse.
Worse, Russia not only knew that Trump was lying, but when investigators first started looking into this deal, the Kremlin helped Trump cover up what really happened. That made Trump doubly compromised: first, because he was eager to get the financial payout and second because Russia had evidence he was lying to the American people—evidence they could have held over Trump by threatening to reveal at any time.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Mueller details how Roger Stone, who the special counsel notes was in frequent contact with Donald Trump and senior campaign officials, directed Corsi to connect with WikiLeaks about the trove of stolen materials it received from Russia. Corsi subsequently communicated WikiLeaks’ release plan back to Stone, and the Trump campaign built its final message around the email release. That is collusion.*

Second, we now know that Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen and former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn have provided evidence to Mueller related to collusion. In Cohen’s sentencing memo, Mueller said that Cohen provided his office with “useful information” on “Russia-related matters core to its investigation.” One of those central elements, according to the Justice Department: “any links and/or coordination” between the Kremlin and Trump campaign figures. Collusion, in other words.

Third, Mueller has found evidence that Trump was compromised by a hostile foreign power during the election. In his plea deal, Cohen revealed that Trump had repeatedly lied to voters about the then-candidate’s financial ties to Russia. While Trump claimed during the campaign to have no business dealings with Russia, he was negotiating a wildly lucrative business deal not simply with Russian businessmen, but also involving with the Kremlin itself. Trump’s team even reportedly tried to bribe Russian President Vladimir Putin by offering him a $50 million penthouse.
Worse, Russia not only knew that Trump was lying, but when investigators first started looking into this deal, the Kremlin helped Trump cover up what really happened. That made Trump doubly compromised: first, because he was eager to get the financial payout and second because Russia had evidence he was lying to the American people—evidence they could have held over Trump by threatening to reveal at any time.

Trump thinks he can speak things into being like God, or rather tweet it into reality. That's why he tweets "No Collusion" over and over again.

Like he told Billy Bush,"you just say it and they believe it." And it works ... for his cult followers. It just doesn't work on Mueller ... or the press ... who he thinks he can tweet into "enemies of the people."

Methinks his tweets, and cult following rally's, are soon to be over and done.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump thinks he can speak things into being like God, or rather tweet it into reality. That's why he tweets "No Collusion" over and over again.

Like he told Billy Bush,"you just say it and they believe it." And it works ... for his cult followers. It just doesn't work on Mueller ... or the press ... who he thinks he can tweet into "enemies of the people."

Methinks his tweets, and cult following rally's, are soon to be over and done.

What do the Democrats think? The ball is in their court.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What do the Democrats think? The ball is in their court.

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) [Twit Trump called him "Little Adam ****t" in a tweet a few weeks ago] on Sunday said that President Trump might "face the real prospect of jail time" after prosecutors indicated last week that he directed illegal payments during his 2016 presidential campaign.

"There’s a very real prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office, the Justice Department may indict him. That he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time," he said on CBS's "Face the Nation."

Schiff's comments come after federal prosecutors said in a legal filing Friday that referred to Trump as "Individual-1" that Trump during the 2016 campaign directed his former personal attorney, Michael Cohen, to make illegal payments to two women claiming they had affairs with Trump. It was the first time prosecutors made those accusations against Trump.


Schiff, who is likely to be the next chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, added that the next president may have to determine whether to pardon Trump.

"We have been discussing the issue of pardons the president may offer to people or dangle in front of people," Schiff said. "The bigger pardon question may come down the road, as the next president has to determine whether to pardon Donald Trump."

“I think the prosecutors in New York make a powerful case against that idea," he added. "All the arguments they make against Michael Cohen ... that argument was equally made with respect to Individual-1, the president of the United States.”

[source: The Hill]

Meanwhile, Trump is seeking a masochist to replace Kelly as his Chief of Laughs within the next three weeks.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) [Twit Trump called him "Little Adam ****t" in a tweet a few weeks ago] on Sunday said that President Trump might "face the real prospect of jail time" after prosecutors indicated last week that he directed illegal payments during his 2016 presidential campaign.

"There’s a very real prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office, the Justice Department may indict him. That he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time," he said on CBS's "Face the Nation."

Schiff's comments come after federal prosecutors said in a legal filing Friday that referred to Trump as "Individual-1" that Trump during the 2016 campaign directed his former personal attorney, Michael Cohen, to make illegal payments to two women claiming they had affairs with Trump. It was the first time prosecutors made those accusations against Trump.


Schiff, who is likely to be the next chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, added that the next president may have to determine whether to pardon Trump.

"We have been discussing the issue of pardons the president may offer to people or dangle in front of people," Schiff said. "The bigger pardon question may come down the road, as the next president has to determine whether to pardon Donald Trump."

“I think the prosecutors in New York make a powerful case against that idea," he added. "All the arguments they make against Michael Cohen ... that argument was equally made with respect to Individual-1, the president of the United States.”

[source: The Hill]

Meanwhile, Trump is seeking a masochist to replace Kelly as his Chief of Laughs within the next three weeks.

There's talk of impeachment all over the media :

MEDIA DEMAND TRUMP IMPEACHMENT FOLLOWING COHEN SENTENCING FILING

https://news.grabien.com/story-media...-sentencing-fi

[awareness]

Bro Ohio will just love this Supremey activism :

Supreme Court gives victory to Planned Parenthood in Medicaid case
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...nthood-n945946

Here's more bro Ohio, about your favorite savior Kavanaugh. Not looking good for Roe v. Wade :

Trump's Supreme Court justice Brett Kavanaugh kills off bid by Republican states to strip Planned Parenthood of Medicaid cash by REFUSING to side with other conservative judges
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arenthood.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bro Ohio will just love this Supremey activism :

Supreme Court gives victory to Planned Parenthood in Medicaid case

Here's more bro Ohio, about your favorite savior Kavanaugh.

This is a pretty disgusting hit job and gross mischaracterization of me.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bro Ohio will just love this Supremey activism :

Supreme Court gives victory to Planned Parenthood in Medicaid case
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...nthood-n945946

Here's more bro Ohio, about your favorite savior Kavanaugh. Not looking good for Roe v. Wade :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arenthood.html

This has nothing to do with Roe v Wade.

Being against Roe v Wade does not equate with being against Planned Parenthood. This is the mistake many, like Awareness make. I am all for health care, prenatal care, and women's health and don't care who is providing it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This has nothing to do with Roe v Wade.

Being against Roe v Wade does not equate with being against Planned Parenthood. This is the mistake many, like Awareness make. I am all for health care, prenatal care, and women's health and don't care who is providing it.

Since awareness is so much for women's right to abortion, why does he feel compelled to irk me, rather than simply celebrate his perceived victory?

Shouldn't those who lied and smeared Kavanaugh's reputation now feel stupid about how they behaved?

[Ohio]

The Obama Democratics -- a case study on how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Study: Elite Zip Codes Thrived in Obama Recovery, Rural America Left Behind

.

[Weighingin]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bro Ohio will just love this Supremey activism :

Supreme Court gives victory to Planned Parenthood in Medicaid case
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...nthood-n945946

Here's more bro Ohio, about your favorite savior Kavanaugh. Not looking good for Roe v. Wade :

Trump's Supreme Court justice Brett Kavanaugh kills off bid by Republican states to strip Planned Parenthood of Medicaid cash by REFUSING to side with other conservative judges
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arenthood.html

2 quick thoughts/comments: I understand that Medicaid funds can't be used for abortions. It is said that Pl Par pushes or greatly encourages abortion over other alternatives.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Weighingin

2 quick thoughts/comments: I understand that Medicaid funds can't be used for abortions. It is said that Pl Par pushes or greatly encourages abortion over other alternatives.

There are many services that Planned Parenthood provides that are not abortion and not really even related to abortion. It is a trap to have an issue with those because it is really indefensible. This is quite similar to the good works that the Mafia does. You don't go after the Mafia for their charitable work in the community, you go after them for the murders, and other indefensible crimes.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Obama Democratics -- a case study on how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Study: Elite Zip Codes Thrived in Obama Recovery, Rural America Left Behind

.

This post coming from a blind supporter of a quintessential 'white' Plutocrat.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

This post coming from a blind supporter of a quintessential 'white' Plutocrat.

Really? I did not know that Ohio was blind. Wow, how does he read all these posts? Technology is amazing.

[awareness]

The Trump age :

'Truth isn't truth' tops list of notable quotes in 2018

https://www.foxnews.com/us/truth-isn...quotes-in-2018

[zeek]

Conservative sweetheart Ann Coulter lashed out at President Donald Trump for telling his supporters that sections of his proposed border wall are already built. “Does Trump think his supporters are dumber than a WaPo reporter?”



https://www.newsweek.com/ann-coulter...LgL7-iLRkedMt8

[ZNPaaneah]

Michael Cohen tweeted to Hillary Clinton -- when you go to prison for defrauding America and perjury, your room and board will be free!

I guess that should go under "pride goes before the fall".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Conservative sweetheart Ann Coulter lashed out at President Donald Trump for telling his supporters that sections of his proposed border wall are already built. “Does Trump think his supporters are dumber than a WaPo reporter?”

Coulter will say anything to stay relevant.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Coulter will say anything to stay relevant.

Right, even the truth as in this case.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Right, even the truth as in this case.

As long as Coulter feeds zeek's insatiable appetite for "Trump-hate," he will promote her.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Conservative sweetheart Ann Coulter lashed out at President Donald Trump for telling his supporters that sections of his proposed border wall are already built. “Does Trump think his supporters are dumber than a WaPo reporter?”

I owe you an apology bro Ohio. Given Coulter's extreme right position against liberal's I thought, you and Coulter were peas in a pod.

I mean, In Trump We Trust by Ann Coulter. And Demonic: How the Liberal Mob Is Endangering America

She's right up your alley ; at least going by what you've posted out here.

I guess she stopped trusting in him. As you should. At this point, it's obvious that, we can't believe a word Trump says.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I owe you an apology bro Ohio. Given Coulter's extreme right position against liberal's I thought, you and Coulter were peas in a pod.

I mean, In Trump We Trust by Ann Coulter. And Demonic: How the Liberal Mob Is Endangering America

She's right up your alley ; at least going by what you've posted out here.

I guess she stopped trusting in him. As you should. At this point, it's obvious that, we can't believe a word Trump says.

I rarely read Coulter. Never bought one of her books.

I side with policy more than the person, which is probably what you find difficult to understand. Trump is called a "populist" not because he cons people, but because his policies match those of common people.

Let's look at this from the other side. Those on the LEFT are now willing to take any position as long as it is opposite to Trump. Totally disingenuous. For example, 42, 43, and 44 all stated publicly that they support moving our Embassy to Jerusalem, 45 said it and DID IT! So the LEFT hates him more. Just one example. Many more exist, whether policy or procedure.

Anymore, many people are beginning to think that if the LEFT (meaning mainly the Democrats and the media, since they are inseparable) is against something, then it is probably good for our country and its people. Likewise, whatever the LEFT is for, especially their extreme views, most likely is bad for our country and its people.

And I say the "LEFT" because they no longer espouse typical liberal positions. Liberals used to promote free speech. "I may not agree with you, but I support your right to say it," was their mantra. That has all changed. The LEFT now plans to suppress all speech, except for what they approve of.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I rarely read Coulter. Never bought one of her books.

I side with policy more than the person, which is probably what you find difficult to understand. Trump is called a "populist" not because he cons people, but because his policies match those of common people.

Let's look at this from the other side. Those on the LEFT are now willing to take any position as long as it is opposite to Trump. Totally disingenuous. For example, 42, 43, and 44 all stated publicly that they support moving our Embassy to Jerusalem, 45 said it and DID IT! So the LEFT hates him more. Just one example. Many more exist, whether policy or procedure.

Anymore, many people are beginning to think that if the LEFT (meaning mainly the Democrats and the media, since they are inseparable) is against something, then it is probably good for our country and its people. Likewise, whatever the LEFT is for, especially their extreme views, most likely is bad for our country and its people.

And I say the "LEFT" because they no longer espouse typical liberal positions. Liberals used to promote free speech. "I may not agree with you, but I support your right to say it," was their mantra. That has all changed. The LEFT now plans to suppress all speech, except for what they approve of.

This has become obvious with the Daily Show. When Stewart was there you still had the appearance of someone who looked at the policy and did not have a knee jerk reaction to always attack the Republican. That is no longer true. With Noah it is such a knee Jerk attack any and all things Trump. It is ugly and insulting, particularly from someone who is not a US Citizen and would be offended by anyone who did the exact same thing to Africa.

[zeek]

The Senate voted to withdraw U.S. military support for Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen, a stinging rebuke of President Trump's defense of the kingdom.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/13/u...g-news&ref=cta

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The Senate voted to withdraw U.S. military support for Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen, a stinging rebuke of President Trump's defense of the kingdom.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/13/u...g-news&ref=cta

Why is no one pointing the finger at the CIA? Once they started putting phony reporters who work for the CIA for propaganda and disinformation they put reporters into the crosshairs of all these corrupt dictators.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I rarely read Coulter. Never bought one of her books.

Me neither. My old LC friend, known out here as Hosepipe, Manna-man's dad, pushed lots of Coulter on me. To him she could do no wrong ; "she's a constitutional lawyer."

Originally Posted by Ohio

I side with policy more than the person, which is probably what you find difficult to understand. Trump is called a "populist" not because he cons people, but because his policies match those of common people.

So it's fine if our president is a compulsive liar, and a felon, as long as he does agreeable policy?

And, honestly. How can a person that was making $200,000.00 a year at 3 yrs old know anything about the common people? "Common people" is Trump double-speak. It's just a sales-pitch.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Let's look at this from the other side. Those on the LEFT are now willing to take any position as long as it is opposite to Trump. Totally disingenuous. For example, 42, 43, and 44 all stated publicly that they support moving our Embassy to Jerusalem, 45 said it and DID IT! So the LEFT hates him more. Just one example. Many more exist, whether policy or procedure.

Anymore, many people are beginning to think that if the LEFT (meaning mainly the Democrats and the media, since they are inseparable) is against something, then it is probably good for our country and its people. Likewise, whatever the LEFT is for, especially their extreme views, most likely is bad for our country and its people.

And I say the "LEFT" because they no longer espouse typical liberal positions. Liberals used to promote free speech. "I may not agree with you, but I support your right to say it," was their mantra. That has all changed. The LEFT now plans to suppress all speech, except for what they approve of.

I don't know the LEFT like you obviously do. The way you make 'em sound, they're creepy and loony.

And I'm not surprised that a nation that committed genocide against Native American's, would support genocide of the Palestinians. It's Manifest Destiny that our Embassy would be moved to Jerusalem. In fact, God, the creator of everything, wants it there. The Bible tells how important it is to God for America's Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem ... prolly 3000 yr prophecy, in the book Hezekiah ... the only one that speaks of The USA ... and Donald J. Trump, by name.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know the LEFT like you obviously do. The way you make 'em sound, they're creepy and loony.

Right. Whenever I want to know what the LEFT is thinking, feeling or doing I always look to Mr. Ohio cuz he KNOWS.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So it's fine if our president is a compulsive liar, and a felon, as long as he does agreeable policy?

How many times did I tell you that all politicians are liars and crooks. If you make that the standard, there would be no leaders.

Accusing Trump of being a felon is a serious charge. Now you have become a "compulsive liar" too.

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know the LEFT like you obviously do. The way you make 'em sound, they're creepy and loony.

Perhaps you are finally starting to get the message?

Originally Posted by awareness

And I'm not surprised that a nation that committed genocide against Native Americans

More lies. Has this become your compulsive habit?

I really wish you would get your history right. Study the plight of Native Americans and African Americans under the Presidency of Andrew Jackson and the Democratic Party. IF YOU DARE. Read what Jackson did to the Indians. Did you know that not one single Republican ever owned a slave? Both the Northern and the Southern Democrats stood against the emancipation of the Black man in the 13th Amend.

The crimes against Indians and Blacks were NOT committed by "White Man" or "Americans" but the Democrat Party. It was Jacksonian Democrats on the SCOTUS which gave us that horrible Dred Scott decision in 1857 which helped precipitate the Civil War, the bloodiest war in history.

It's bad enough that your facts of history are all wrong, but when you repeat them they become your lies too.

Same goes with Israel and the plight of the Palestinians. It is the Iranians who are committing genocide on the Palestinian people. What Hamas has done to the Gaza strip is horrible. Go ask those people who treats them better, Israel of Hamas.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Right. Whenever I want to know what the LEFT is thinking, feeling or doing I always look to Mr. Ohio cuz he KNOWS.

Thank You.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why is no one pointing the finger at the CIA? Once they started putting phony reporters who work for the CIA for propaganda and disinformation they put reporters into the crosshairs of all these corrupt dictators.

Look no further than John Brennan for the "mastermind" behind the coup d'etat to remove Trump from Office.

How is it that they could illegally surveil, out his identity, and leak conversations by incoming Advisor Mike Flynn with his Russian counterparts, then fool Flynn into not having a lawyer present when interviewed by Agent Strzok, who then wrote his 302 report 7 months after the interview, and only Flynn is indicted by Muller? Stinks to high heaven.

I predict Judge Emmet Sullivan will throw his case out the door.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Right. Whenever I want to know what the LEFT is thinking, feeling or doing I always look to Mr. Ohio cuz he KNOWS.

Him and Ann Coulter.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

And I'm not surprised that a nation that committed genocide against Native American's, would support genocide of the Palestinians. It's Manifest Destiny that our Embassy would be moved to Jerusalem. In fact, God, the creator of everything, wants it there. The Bible tells how important it is to God for America's Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem ... prolly 3000 yr prophecy, in the book Hezekiah ... the only one that speaks of The USA ... and Donald J. Trump, by name.

The "nation" did not begin until 1776 at the earliest, so you are obviously not referring to Columbus, and other European explorers.

Perhaps you are referring to Andrew Jackson repatriating Indians to reservations. That is not genocide.

Or perhaps you are referring to atrocities like Red River and Wounded Knee. Absolutely no evidence that the "nation committed" or "supported" this.

Second, an atrocity does not equate to genocide.

The US treated native American Indians in a way that is similar to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. That is true, but neither can be characterized as "genocide".

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The crimes against Indians and Blacks were NOT committed by "White Man" or "Americans" but the Democrat Party.

So all our founding fathers were democrats? Cool. Where were the republicans? The demmies founded our nation. Yea Demmies!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Look no further than John Brennan for the "mastermind" behind the coup d'etat to remove Trump from Office.

How is it that they could illegally surveil, out his identity, and leak conversations by incoming Advisor Mike Flynn with his Russian counterparts, then fool Flynn into not having a lawyer present when interviewed by Agent Strzok, who then wrote his 302 report 7 months after the interview, and only Flynn is indicted by Muller? Stinks to high heaven.

I predict Judge Emmet Sullivan will throw his case out the door.

It has been the CIA's MO to have phony reporters who promote fake news. We should have learned after WWI the dangers in doing that.

During WWI stories were told of horrifying atrocities committed by the Germans. As a result the country was unified and motivated to rid the world of this evil. Even preachers said that if Jesus were alive He would bayonet these evil people. After the war we learned they were all lies. As a result during WWII when reports about the Concentration camps came out no one would believe it thinking it was just more lies like before.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So all our founding fathers were democrats? Cool. Where were the republicans?

They were the abolitionists fighting slavery.

The Democrats were covering themselves with the claims of personal liberty (meaning they have the right to own slaves) and State's rights (meaning the US govt can't tell us it is wrong to own slaves).

The Republicans were saying we need to be one country and it was obvious that we were not and could not be a country of slave holders.

[zeek]

duplicated

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thank You.

You're welcome. From you I learned that the political Right is a diverse group of enlightened individuals.

But the LEFT is a monolithic collective. The LEFT has achieved a oneness that Witness Lee and the local church couldn't.

The LEFT is paid to demonstrate as a violent mob in the street by George Soros. The white supremacist demonstrators are mostly good sincere well-meaning people.

Every LEFT-leaning grandma has an antifa mask and a pair of brass knuckles she's hiding in the closet. The LEFT is uniformly enticing the M13 into the Nation's midst to rape pillage and murder.

RIGHT good. LEFT bad.

All this I learned about my collective identity from reading Mister Ohio's posts. Thanks again Ohio!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

You're welcome. From you I learned that the political Right is a diverse group of enlightened individuals. But the LEFT is a monolithic collective. The LEFT has achieved a oneness that Witness Lee and the local church couldn't. The LEFT is paid to demonstrate as a violent mob in the street by George Soros. The white supremacist demonstrators are mostly good sincere well-meaning people. Every LEFT-leaning grandma has an antifa mask and a pair of brass knuckles she's hiding in the closet. The LEFT is uniformly enticing the M13 into the Nation's midst to rape pillage and kill. All this I learned about my collective identity from reading Mister Ohio's posts. Thanks again Ohio!

Here is a quote from the LEFT

“Rudeness can be extremely politically useful. There are arguments to be made over who constitutes a valid target, but when crude obscenity is directed at figures of power, their prestige can be tarnished, even in the eyes of the most reverent of subjects,” wrote Amber A'Lee Frost, a co-host of Chapo Trap House, in an essay for Current Affairs. “Caricature is designed to exaggerate, and therefore make more noticeable, people’s central defining qualities, and can thus be illuminating even at its most indelicate.”

[awareness]

Scott Walker Signs Wisconsin GOP’s Massive Power Grab Into Law

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0844cda4f500a

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

All this I learned about my collective identity from reading Mister Ohio's posts. Thanks again Ohio!

You are very welcome!


It would be good if you knew who and what was behind your "collective identity" on the LEFT.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You are very welcome!


It would be good if you knew who and what was behind your "collective identity" on the LEFT.

Oh tell me tell me Daddy please!