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Old 01-22-2020, 08:09 AM   #1
Adelphos
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Default "They Called It The Law Of Moses."

I questioned the constant use of these Witness Lee books throughout the week and on Sundays observed the devotionals were regurgitated. His commentaries, The powerful LSM directives through the books taking over the services. There were the heretical doctrines etc...When I commented on not being able to even attend a function without hearing the name I was told it was like the APOSTLE PAUL!! You have to be with the one who had the vision.
The Israelites called it The Law of Moses I was told. So it gave precedent I inferred to following the a man's teaching or naming things after him. However when you translate the Hebrew when God met with Moses "face to face" it is more like they were breathing the same air, just too magnificent. Moses brought The Laws of God Almighty and his face glowed with the Shikenah Glory.
Pretty ludicrous to compare Witness Lee's "vision" to those experienced by a man like Moses.
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: "THEY CALLED IT THE LAW OF MOSES."

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Originally Posted by Adelphos View Post
I questioned the constant use of these Witness Lee books throughout the week and on Sundays observed the devotionals were regurgitated. His commentaries, The powerful LSM directives through the books taking over the services. There were the heretical doctrines etc...When I commented on not being able to even attend a function without hearing the name I was told it was like the APOSTLE PAUL!! You have to be with the one who had the vision.
The Israelites called it The Law of Moses I was told. So it gave precedent I inferred to following the a man's teaching or naming things after him. However when you translate the Hebrew when God met with Moses "face to face" it is more like they were breathing the same air, just too magnificent. Moses brought The Laws of God Almighty and his face glowed with the Shikenah Glory.
Pretty ludicrous to compare Witness Lee's "vision" to those experienced by a man like Moses.
One can attend a Lutheran Church for months and never hear the name of "Luther" invoked, unless they mentioned that Monday happened to be "Martin Luther King" day in the USA.

Now I ask, please tell me who is "of Luther" and who is "of Lee"?
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: "THEY CALLED IT THE LAW OF MOSES."

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One can attend a Lutheran Church for months and never hear the name of "Luther" invoked, unless they mentioned that Monday happened to be "Martin Luther King" day in the USA.

Now I ask, please tell me who is "of Luther" and who is "of Lee"?
And are there any fanatical "Lord Luther" sects springing up in Germany, Norway, or Finland? Thousands of Finns gathering and chanting, "O Lord Luther" at the tops of their lungs for hours on end? No? And why ever not? Seems like it should be an occupational hazard, being the Great Man of the Age, and all.

Do you remember WL saying that? "There are people who worship me as a god"... what brought about that excessive veneration, then?

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One branch of the Shouters held Witness Lee in such high esteem that they began to regard his authority and status as greater than Christ's. They called Witness Lee "Lord Changshou" (常受主) ("Changshou" is Witness Lee's given name). This, of course, goes far beyond the actual teaching of Witness Lee, who never proposed to set himself above Christ. Witness Lee acknowledged the fact that some people had started to worship him and made some attempt to stop it.

It has been reported that in 1995, this branch of the Shouters distributed 15 million tracts in 20 major cities in China declaring that Witness Lee was the living Christ and that he would become the new king of the universe.

This "Lord Changshou" sect believed that you must call upon the Lord Changshou to be saved; that Jesus is someone of the past and will not return to save the world; and that Lord Changshou will return to save the world.

One can easily see how this cult became a pattern for Eastern Lightning. Indeed, the founder of Eastern Lightning was first part of the "Lord Changshou" sect.
https://www.chinasource.org/resource...deas-come-from
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: "THEY CALLED IT THE LAW OF MOSES."

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Do you remember WL saying that? "There are people who worship me as a god"... what brought about that excessive veneration, then?

https://www.chinasource.org/resource...deas-come-from
aron, these linked articles seem to imply that Lee's modalistic tendencies played a part in China's aberrant cults, like the Shouters, Lord Changshou, or the Eastern Lightning. I'm a little skeptical.

I believe that the exaltation of Lee, beginning with his Recovery MOTA concepts, were far more significant. Lee's own son Philip, the so-called "Office" at LSM, was definitely instrumental during the 1980's. Philip wanted to follow his Dad in this exalted ascendancy. As the "acting MOTA" in his father's absence, he generated a whole host of incredible deviations, readily imbibed and disseminated by all the Blended underlings. Sayings like "even when he's wrong he's right," and "we only care for life," became watchwords for all the FTTA's. Many have commented that Philip's techniques were taken from the Mao playbook, and thus would naturally fit into post-Mao China.

The effects of this spread of aberrant teachings cannot be overestimated. I witnessed this in the US LC's. One might compare this to today's culture-cancelling Twitter mobs, since long-established LC elders suddenly lived in terror that some returning FTT grad would report them for non-compliance. A system of paranoid man-pleasing rapidly developed as a protective scheme. Many of these grads became like "sleeper cells" ready to blow up local leadership when they perceived that allegiance to Anaheim was waning. WL even commented at one point "I know everything you do."
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:04 AM   #5
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Default Re: "THEY CALLED IT THE LAW OF MOSES."

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Originally Posted by Adelphos View Post
When I commented on not being able to even attend a function without hearing the name I was told it was like the APOSTLE PAUL!! You have to be with the one who had the vision.

The Israelites called it The Law of Moses I was told. So it gave precedent I inferred to following the a man's teaching or naming things after him. .
Here's the thing with Moses. Jesus said, "Moses wrote about me". ~John 5:46 He didn't say, "Moses wrote about me, then Paul, then a lineage of great teachers, all of whom see God and get direct revelation."

Jesus was the second Adam, the Last Adam. Likewise, he was the Second Moses, the Last Moses. There is no Third, Fourth, etc. Paul cried out, "Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them." Paul never claimed MOTA-hood, nor did he allow anyone to elevate him. Paul never inferred that he was Today's Moses. Nor did anyone else that I can remember.

"A prophet God will raise up, like Moses." ~Acts 3:22; 7:37, cf Deut 18:15. Peter (Act 3) and Stephen (Acts 7) didn't say, "A line of prophets like Moses." There's only one foretold, not a lineage.

Then look at Deut 18:18, where God said, "I will raise up for them a prophet like you (Moses) from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him." Then look at what Jesus said, "The words that I speak to you, I do not speak from myself, but the Father gives them to me."

Who else can say this? Jesus fulfils this, and none else that we see. Paul said that he was "only human", like us. Jesus, however, wasn't "only human" like us, but was Son of God, Second Moses, Last Adam, Saviour of the World, New Law-giver ("a new commandment I give unto you..."), Lamb of God, the King of Kings... let's not conflate this One's person or position with his servants. Or elevate any servants or disciples to some special, god-like, 'anointed' position. God will do the elevating at the Judgment Seat. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Everyone can function. But only One is the New Law-giver.
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: "THEY CALLED IT THE LAW OF MOSES."

Jesus instituted His own law, higher and better than the law of Moses, negating the need for the law of Moses, which had served its purpose to utterly expose man’s condition of utter sinfulness, death, and need for a Savior to fulfill all of its types and shadows to deliver those shackled up by it to a new husband. But had become defunct and worthless.

The new law is called “the law of Christ”, “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus”, “the perfect law of freedom”, and “the royal law” by the apostles.

This law comes only by faith in Jesus Christ, which comes from hearing the word of Christ preached by His sent ones.

I conclude this from the following New Testament verses that include “law”:


“Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law. To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men, so that by all possible means I might save some.
I do all this for the sake of the gospel, so that I may share in its blessings.” 1 Cor. 9:19-23.

“Though you are free of obligation to anyone, make yourself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible

But because of your hardness and unrepentant heart, you are treasuring up to yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgement of God, who will give to each according to his works,” to those who indeed with endurance in good work are seeking glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those of self-interest and disobeying the truth, but being persuaded about unrighteousness, wrath and anger; tribulation and distress upon every soul of man working evil, both of Jewish first, and also of Greek; but glory and honor and peace to everyone doing good, both to Jewish first, and to Greek. For there is no partiality with God.
For as many as have sinned without the Law also will perish without the Law; and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law, for not the hearers of the Law are righteous with God; but the doers of the Law will be justified.
For when the Gentiles, not having the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these not having the Law are a law to themselves, who show the work of the Law, written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or also defending them on that day when God will judge the secrets of men according to my gospel, by Christ Jesus.

Rather than being one of self-interest and disobedient the truth be those who indeed with endurance in good work seeking glory and honor and immortality, eternal life for doers of law will be justified. Do by nature the things of the law, show the work of the law written in your heart, your conscience bearing witness, the thoughts between one another defending you on that day when God will judge the secrets of men according to Paul’s gospel by Christ Jesus.

But if you are called a Jew and rely on the Law and boast in God, and you know His will and approve the things being superior, being instructed out of the Law, and you are persuaded that you yourself are a guide of the blind, a light to those in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth— then you teaching another, do you do not teach yourself? You preaching not to steal, do you steal? You saying not to commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You abhorring idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in Law, do you dishonor God through the transgression of the Law? As it has been written: “For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you.
For circumcision profits if you do the Law; but if you are a transgressor of Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be reckoned for circumcision? And the uncircumcision by nature, fulfilling the Law, will judge you who with the letter and circumcision are a transgressor of Law.
For the one on the outside a Jew is not, neither that on the outside in flesh is circumcision. But he who is a Jew is one on the inside; and circumcision is of heart, in spirit, not in letter, of whom the praise is not of men, but of God.” Romans 2:5-29

“If uncircumcision keeps the requirements of the law, his uncircumcision will be reckoned for circumcision, for a Jew is one on the inside; and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, of whom praise is not from men, but of God

What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. As itis written:
“There is no one righteous,
not even one.
There is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.
Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.
The venom of vipers is on their lips.
Their mouths are full of cursing and of bitterness.
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Ruin and misery lie in their wake,
and the way of peace they have not known.
There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.
But now apart from works of law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus.
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Is God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.
Do we then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.”
Romans 2 and 3

“When Cephas came to Antioch, however, I opposed him to his face, because he stood to be condemned. For before men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself, for fear of those in the circumcision group. The other Jews joined in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
When Isaw that they were not walking in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, who are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile ‘sinners’ know a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if we seek to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, does that make Christ a minister of sin? Certainly not! If I rebuild what I have already torn down, I prove myself to be a lawbreaker. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not set aside the grace of God. For if righteousness comes through the law, Christ died for nothing. O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?
So also Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Understand then, that those who have faith are the sons of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by faith.’ The law however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, ‘The man who does these things will live by them.’
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.’ He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.”
Galatians 2&3

“Brothers let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, ‘and to seeds,’meaning many, but ‘and to your seed,’ meaning One, who is Christ.
What I mean is this: The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to cancel the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise.
Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator. A mediator is unnecessary, however, if there is only one party; but God is one.
Is the law then opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.
Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For allof you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.”Galatians 3

“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.
Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.

For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.

Galatians 5:1-6, 13

“Do you not know, brothers (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then if she is joined to another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law and is not an adulteress, even if she marries another man.
Therefore my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death. But now having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the law had not said, “Do not covet.” But sin seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the law, sin is dead.
Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death. For sin seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.
So then the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.

Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. And I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. But then I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
You however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you.” Romans 7 and 8:1-11


“Men swear by someone greater than themselves and their oath serves as a confirmation to end all argument. So when God wanted to make the unchanging nature of His purpose very clear to the heirs of the promise, He guaranteed it with an oath. Thus by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be strongly encouraged.
We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and steadfast. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus our forerunner has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, and Abraham apportioned to him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness.” Then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” Without father or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time.
Consider how great Melchizedek was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him the first tenth of the plunder. Now the law commands the sons of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their brothers—though they too are descended from Abraham. But Melchizedek, who did not trace his descent from Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. And indisputably, the lesser is blessed by the greater.
In the case of the Levites, mortal men collect the tenth; but in the case of Melchizedek, it is affirmed that he lives on. And so to speak, Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham. For when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the loin of his ancestor.

Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on this basis the people received the law), why was there still need for another priest to appear—one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed as well.
He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, a tribe as to which Moses said nothing about priests.
And this point is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not by a law of succession, but by the power of an indestructible life. For it is testified
‘You are a priest forever
in the order of Melchizedek.’
So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
And none of this happened without an oath. For others became priests without an oath, but Jesus became a priest with an oath by the One who said to Him:
“The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
Now there have been many other priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office. But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore He is able to save completely those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.
Such a high priest truly befits us—One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer daily sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people; He sacrificed for sin once for all when He offered up Himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who ministers in the sanctuary and true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man. And since every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, it was necessary for this One also to have something to offer.
Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer gifts according to the law. The place where they serve is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: ‘See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.’

Now however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises. For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second. But God found fault with the people and said:
‘Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their fathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of the land of Egypt,
because they did not abide by My covenant,
and I disregarded them,
declares the Lord.
For this is the covenant I will make
with the house of Israel
after those days,
declares the Lord.
I will put My laws in their minds,
and inscribe them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
For I will forgive their iniquities
and will remember their sins no more.’
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.”

Hebrews 6:16-20: 7; and 8

“My beloved brothers, understand this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save your souls.
Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves. For anyone who hears the word but does not carry it out is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror, and after observing himself goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom, and continues to do so—not being a forgetful hearer, but an effective doer—he will be blessed in what he does.
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not bridle his tongue, he deceives his heart and his religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” James 1:16-26


“My brothers, as you hold out your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, do not show favoritism.
Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you lavish attention on the man in fine clothes and say, ‘Here is a seat of honor,’ but say to the poor man ‘You must stand,’ or, ‘Sit at my feet,’ have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
Listen my beloved brothers: Has not God chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom He promised those who love Him? But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who oppress you and drag you into court? Are they not the ones who blaspheme the noble name by which you have been called?
If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, ‘love your neighbor as yourself’, you are doing well. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For He who said, ‘Do not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘Do not murder.’, ‘Do not commit adultery’, but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom. For judgement without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you tells him, ‘Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,’ but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? so too, faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action, is dead.
But someone will say, ‘You have faith and I have deeds.’ Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless? Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,’ and he was called a friend of God. As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spiesj and sent them off on another route? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”

James2
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:57 AM   #7
aron
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Default Re: "THEY CALLED IT THE LAW OF MOSES."

Psalm 119:112 "I incline my heart to perform your statutes forever, to the end" (ESV). Jesus spoke very similar in John's gospel, chapters 14 through 16. Jesus came at the Father's command, the Father loved us and sent His Son, and the Father had decreed in the sending, that the Righteous Sent One should perish that the lost ones might be saved. I know this is strange to modern sensibilities but there it is. The righteous and obedient Lamb of God was made unrighteous on our behalf. "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

At the root of Jesus was a heart inclined toward God, including but subsuming source of the law, Moses, David the King, Abraham who believed. This is the perfect law of freedom of which James wrote, not a law that mitigates sin but that sets us free to commune with our Father. And in this communion we see the Father's love toward our neighbor, and are moved with compassion.

Mark 1:41 And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and said to him, I will; be you clean

Mark 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.

Matthew 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

Jesus was either the light of the world, or a self-deceived megalomaniac.

"For indeed, the hope of the Gentiles has come through the fulfillment of the promise to the patriarchs. Abraham’s seed, Abraham’s offspring, the one in whom the Gentiles will hope–this is Christ Jesus our Lord. He came as the Servant of the Lord, filled with the Spirit, to bring in God’s kingdom of blessing." ~Romans 15
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: "THEY CALLED IT THE LAW OF MOSES."

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Originally Posted by aron View Post
Here's the thing with Moses. Jesus said, "Moses wrote about me". ~John 5:46 He didn't say, "Moses wrote about me, then Paul, then a lineage of great teachers, all of whom see God and get direct revelation."

Jesus was the second Adam, the Last Adam. Likewise, he was the Second Moses, the Last Moses. There is no Third, Fourth, etc. Paul cried out, "Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them." Paul never claimed MOTA-hood, nor did he allow anyone to elevate him. Paul never inferred that he was Today's Moses. Nor did anyone else that I can remember.

"A prophet God will raise up, like Moses." ~Acts 3:22; 7:37, cf Deut 18:15. Peter (Act 3) and Stephen (Acts 7) didn't say, "A line of prophets like Moses." There's only one foretold, not a lineage.

Then look at Deut 18:18, where God said, "I will raise up for them a prophet like you (Moses) from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him." Then look at what Jesus said, "The words that I speak to you, I do not speak from myself, but the Father gives them to me."

Who else can say this? Jesus fulfils this, and none else that we see. Paul said that he was "only human", like us. Jesus, however, wasn't "only human" like us, but was Son of God, Second Moses, Last Adam, Saviour of the World, New Law-giver ("a new commandment I give unto you..."), Lamb of God, the King of Kings... let's not conflate this One's person or position with his servants. Or elevate any servants or disciples to some special, god-like, 'anointed' position. God will do the elevating at the Judgment Seat. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Everyone can function. But only One is the New Law-giver.
Aron, great post. It was these truths which delivered me from the leaven of Lee which elevated his own status to some self-proclaimed MOTA, the Minister of the Age, the Deputy Authority, even the "acting God." The exact same spiritual deceit which elevated the Roman Pope to be exalted as the "Vicar of Christ, the Holy See," as if some fellow sinner here on earth could ever replace God's resurrected and exalted Son, given the Name above all names, who is now uniquely the Head of the body.

In order to facillitate such a monumental scam on the people of God, another false construct was developed from O.T. history called the "Recovery." This introduced the need for the first MOTA, the reformer Martin Luther, who became the "Father" of the Recovered Church. In order to connect their own exalted status to Luther's presumed position as MOTA on top of the church, Nee and Lee had to develop further heretical doctrines such as, "God has always had a MOTA in every age, and those in every age who wanted to serve with "vision," must attach themselves to this MOTA."

In order to maintain these illusions of authority within the body of Christ, Lee had to rewrite church history accordingly, i.e. Recovery history, starting with Luther and concluding with Lee. No other Christian minister in the last century believes such a version of events. A simple reading of church history shoots gaping holes in this self-serving version of events. Thus all outsiders must be regularly condemned as "poor, degraded Christianity" since they reject Lee's version of history.
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