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Old 03-03-2016, 09:41 PM   #1
testallthings
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Default The Bible

WHAT IS THE BIBLE ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE?
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Old 03-04-2016, 12:04 PM   #2
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Interesting question. It is referred to, in part, as the law. Or the law and prophets. But that was not everything that we call the OT. And it says nothing about the content of what we now call the NT.

But in the OT there are references to the law. And to the scrolls. Similarly in the NT. And in addition there is reference to the scripture. But what that encompasses is not entirely defined.

I am not suggesting that the Bible is suspect or less than meaningful in its use and application as the revelation of God and his work with man. But the Bible really says nothing about itself. Even the "all scripture is inspire by God" statement does not define what is scripture. It only tells us something about its character. We have collected certain books together and called them the Bible. And I believe that they are what we need and the collecting process was inspired. But does that turn everything about it into "scripture" in the sense that Paul spoke about to Timothy?

I find nothing to be rejected about the Bible. But if it is intended to be the end-all of God's dictated revelation, then why, if slavery was so heinous as to be required to be abolished, did he allow it to not say so? The answer is probably that the purpose of the Bible was not to answer every question and right every wrong. It was to direct us to God to believe in him and follow him to live a different life.

And it wasn't to get us to understand and/or fight over what it means to be a "trinity." Or preach a line-in-the-sand salvation. Or preach a confessional salvation. Or insist that this day or that day is the day to meet.

Reality is that the Bible says virtually nothing about itself as a whole. Just about scripture in an undefined way, and about certain parts of what we have included in the Bible. Even the warning in Revelation about not adding to or taking away from the "this prophecy" is likely only referring to itself, not any other part of what we call the Bible (because much of it did not yet exist. And if they did not yet exist, then they were clearly added to the whole of app prophecy.)

There are plenty of statements or extensions that can be argued. But none of them concern the whole of what we call the Bible.

The Bible doesn't even refer to itself as the word of God (and definitely not the Word of God).
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Old 03-05-2016, 02:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: THE BIBLE

THE MAN OF GOD NEEDS THE WORD(S) OF GOD



2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (KJV)

If the Scriptures are not the word of God, how can the man of God “be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?” If the Bible is not the word of God, we will just be man of man (more on this in another post).

God gave His oracles to the Jews (Rom 3:2 Much in every way! Because first of all, they were entrusted with the revelations of God. Act 7:38 This is he [Moses], that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us...Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures)
God spoke in ancient times by the prophets, in the last days in the Son (Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds...)

The Son promised His disciples that the Holy Spirit will remind them of whatsoever He spoke to them.(Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me)

Plus, The H. S. will teach them “new” things. (Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.)


Heb 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

In his second epistle, Peter refers both to the words of the prophets as well as those of the apostles of the Lord and Savior (2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour...)

In the same passage he considers Paul's writings as scriptures (2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.)

Paul testifies that:
1. his words were the commandments of the Lord (1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.)

2. His words were not the words of man but of God ( 1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. 1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.)

John received the Revelation, which God gave to the Lord Jesus, which in turn He shew to his servants through His angel (Rev 1:1 Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place; and he signified it , sending by his angel, to his bondman John, Rev 1:2 who testified the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, all things that he saw.)

In the end, the Bible (or the Scriptures) are the word of God, spoken by the prophets, by the Son, and by His apostles (disciples).

2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is divinely inspired, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness;
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, fully fitted to every good work. (Darby)
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Old 03-05-2016, 04:09 PM   #4
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Great question, and great answer to it testallthings.

Your question caused me to to a do a word search and go through many of the verses you cited.

From that search I can add:

Scripture should be with us, and we should read it all the days of our life, that we may learn to fear the Lord our God. (Deut. 17:19; Matt 7:26)

We should hear God's word, and be careful to do it (Deut. 12:32, 17:19; James 1:22-25)

The man of God should devote himself to the public reading of scripture, to exhortation, and teaching. (1 Tim 4:13)

We should assemble people to listen to the words of God, and encourage one another to love and good works (Deut. 31:12, 28; Jeremiah 26:2; Heb. 10:25)

The Lord sent His prophets to speak God's words (Jer. 26:15)

We should diligently listen the voice of the Lord our God, and do that which is right in his eyes, give ear to his commandments and keep all his statutes with all our hearts and souls. (Exodus 15:26, Deut. 26:16)

God loves and blesses those who keep his commandments and curses those who don't. (Exodus 20:6, Deut. 4:40 & 28:1-68; Rev. 22:6)

We shouldn't add to God's word nor take away from it. (Deut. 4:2, Proverbs 30:6, Rev. 22:18)

God raised up Jesus to be the prophet promised by Moses that God would put His own words in his mouth. (Deut. 18:18, John 14:10)

God's word will be performed, and his words in the Old Testament were fulfilled in Jesus. (Ezek. 12:28, Luke 22:37, 24:27)

Jesus opens up the scriptures to his disciples, makes their hearts burn within themselves, and opens their minds to them. (Luke 24:32, 45)

The scriptures bear witness of Jesus, including that he must rise from the dead. (John 5:39; 20:9)

Scripture cannot be broken. (John 10:35)

The apostles imparted words not taught in human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. (1 Cor. 2:13)

We were sealed with the Holy Spirit when we heard the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. (Eph. 1:13).

The word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Hebrew 4:12)

We should not lightly regard the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by Him. (Heb. 12:5)

The apostles were from God. Whoever knows God listens to them ; whoever is not from God does not listen to them. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6)

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. (1 John 5:1-3)
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:03 PM   #5
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To JJ,
It is only a start. Hope others will add to the very little I said.
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Old 03-06-2016, 06:58 PM   #6
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the Bible really says nothing about itself. Even the "all scripture is inspire by God" statement does not define what is scripture. It only tells us something about its character.
To understand its character, I simply remember 3 numbers: one, nineteen, and one hundred nineteen.

Psalm 1: Blessed is the man who delights in the law of the LORD, who meditates on it day and night. The torah is planted in his heart, and grows like a tree by streams of water.

On the contrary, the wicked are like chaff - dust. Gone.

(Parenthetical insert: Psalm 2 clearly shows that the righteous, obedient Man of Psalm 1 is none other than Jesus Christ. The Anointed, eternal King, and Son of God. Hear Him, and live).

Psalm 19. Verses 7 through 9 are the finest poetry. I believe the writer has met and appreciates the word, on its own merits.

Psalm 119. Boom. If you ever get in, you never get out. Paradise.

BTW, every 19 years are the ancient solar and lunar calendars reconciled. "While I am with you it is day, when I am gone it will be night." The written word, like the moon, reflects the brightness of the Sun. But when the Sun comes, the need for the moon's light will be no more.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:14 AM   #7
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To understand its character, I simply remember 3 numbers: one, nineteen, and one hundred nineteen.

Psalm 1: Blessed is the man who delights in the law of the LORD, who meditates on it day and night. The torah is planted in his heart, and grows like a tree by streams of water.

On the contrary, the wicked are like chaff - dust. Gone.

(Parenthetical insert: Psalm 2 clearly shows that the righteous, obedient Man of Psalm 1 is none other than Jesus Christ. The Anointed, eternal King, and Son of God. Hear Him, and live).

Psalm 19. Verses 7 through 9 are the finest poetry. I believe the writer has met and appreciates the word, on its own merits.

Psalm 119. Boom. If you ever get in, you never get out. Paradise.

BTW, every 19 years are the ancient solar and lunar calendars reconciled. "While I am with you it is day, when I am gone it will be night." The written word, like the moon, reflects the brightness of the Sun. But when the Sun comes, the need for the moon's light will be no more.
So it is clear that the law is part of the word that is talked about. Besides the law, what was David speaking of when he mentioned meditating on it day and night?

When it says "your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path" what part of what we now call the OT was being considered? (ignoring what was yet to come in the prophets after that time)

Again, I am not disparaging the Bible as a complete collection of the writings we need. But is it all "scripture" in the sense of what was to be meditated upon? The answer may be "yes." And it may be because we have the inner sense to say that it is so. But do the various passages make the broad statements that we think they do, or do we consider the issue answered, therefore they automatically do?

In other words, have we decided that everything is simply synonymous where the words "word," "scripture," "scrolls," etc., are used? Or have we assumed their equality of meaning and moved on?

The problem that I see in the "it's all God's word and therefore equal" is that we then too often consider everything as a separate and singularly important statement that needs no context. I have used the example before from Galatians. Paul is writing to the believers there about their accepting of alternatives to the gospel that he had preached to them. He does not directly identify all of the issues involved, but he hints at them in the things he writes about. So in chapter 2 he gets to Peter acting hypocritically concerning full acceptance of the Gentiles.

As he moves forward with that passage, he makes a rather famous statement — "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

A very significant statement. But instead of dealing with the statement as part of the overall discussion, we have pulled it out and written books about becoming crucified with Christ. But that is not what Paul says. He is declaring that the spiritual reality is that we are separated from our old life by the crucified life of Christ. We don't need to figure out how to get there, we need to live the life that we are called to live which is by faith in the Son of God.

When I read the gospels, I do not see a lot of references to reading the scripture. Not none, but not a lot. I don't see a lot of references to the process of meeting, though meeting is not ignored. Instead a see a lot of speaking about the nature and character of the people of God. Those who follow Jesus. So when I read Paul, such as in Galatians, I get skeptical when someone focusses on 2:20 rather than on 2:14 where Paul said to Peter "When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?"

in 2:20 Paul provides a spiritual truth that should provide the way to live as one who accepts Gentiles without forcing their submission to Jewish rituals.

The point in all of this is that I believe that this is profitable for teaching. But does that make it scripture in the more narrow sense? Or just in the most broad sense?

And even if scripture, is it all equal in every way? Or is there God's direct speaking and the inspired commentary? Still inspired and profitable for teaching. But as connected to the core of what God has sad and not as its own little universe of teaching.

This is, I think, one of the serious errors of the teachings of Lee, and often an error in teaching of many evangelicals.

But, in the end, there is no definition of the Bible in the Bible. Its definition as the Bible is outside of itself. Whether that correctly imbues status as scripture is unclear. In the time of Christ, there was a common reference to the Law and Prophets. But there is more than just those two in what we call the OT. Are they all scripture? And just because certain Psalms are quoted by Jesus, does it automatically grant all 150 of them "scripture" status?

Not trying to suggest that anything is not scripture, but rather that it is so because we have faith that it is so. And within that faith we conclude that certain statements about parts of it are at least possibly extended to all.

But whether it is or is not true is not really a study of facts. It is not entirely an effort in apologetics. It is not scientifically provable. Instead it is accepted by faith.
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:05 AM   #8
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The problem that I see in the "it's all God's word and therefore equal" is that we then too often consider everything as a separate and singularly important statement that needs no context. ...This is, I think, one of the serious errors of the teachings of Lee, and often an error in teaching of many evangelicals..
I read a commentary by a (Jewish) student of a Rabbi who lived a hundred or so years ago, on a text in Psalms 122.

Quote:
The concluding passage of tractate Berachot teaches a remarkable insight into the nature of peace:

“Rabbi Elazar said in the name of Rabbi Haninah: Torah scholars increase peace in the world. As it says, “All of Your children are students of God; great is the peace of Your children” (Isaiah 54:13). Read this not banayich — ‘Your children’ — but rather bonayich — ‘Your builders'.” (Berachot 64a)

Considering the vast number of disagreements and differences of opinion among Torah scholars, Rabbi Haninah’s statement seems, well, counterintuitive. Do scholars really increase peace in the world? And why did Rabbi Haninah insist that they are ‘builders’? What does this tell us about scholars and peace?

True Peace

People mistakenly believe that peace in the world means that everyone will share common viewpoints and think the same way. So when they see scholars disagreeing about an issue, this appears to be the exact opposite of peace.

True peace, however, comes precisely through the proliferation of divergent views. When all of the various angles and sides of an issue are exposed, and we are able to clarify how each one has its place — that is true peace. The Hebrew word shalom means both ‘peace’ and ‘completeness.’ We will only attain complete knowledge when we are able to accommodate all views — even those that appear contradictory - as partial perceptions of the whole truth. Like an interlocking puzzle, together they present a complete picture.

When Torah scholars broaden knowledge and provide new insights, they contribute to the increase of peace. We need to recognize that “ all of Your children are students of God.” All views, even those that seem contradictory, in fact help reveal knowledge and truth. For this reason, Rabbi Haninah emphasized that scholars are like builders. A building is erected from all sides, using a variety of materials and skills. So too, the whole truth is constructed from diverse views, opinions, and methods of analysis.

Peace and Tranquility

Curiously, the Talmud brings Rabbi Haninah’s observation and then quotes from Psalms: “May there be peace in your courtyard and tranquility in your palaces” (122:7). What does this verse add? And what is the difference between peace and tranquility (shalvah)?

According to Rabbi Haninah, no talent or study should be ignored. Rather, we need to discern its inner meaning and thus determine its proper place. If there appear to be inconsistencies between different methods, we must seek out their inner kernel. Once we grasp the inner truth in each concept, all conflicts will be resolved, and our wisdom will be expanded and enhanced.

It is precisely this idea that the verse teaches. The verse speaks of two levels: the surrounding grounds, and the inner palace. It specifically uses the word cheil — the fenced-in area surrounding the Temple’s outer courts — to describe the lower level. The Hebrew word chayil means ’strength’ or ‘activity.’ Thus the first level refers to the realm of life and vigorous activity, which is blessed — not with monotonous sameness — but with a multitude of competing forces. All of this turmoil has value when it leads to a unified goal — “peace in your courtyard.”

The inner palace, on the other hand, is not the place for the clamorous discord of clashing forces. It is the place of quiet wisdom, the source of inner truth for the conflicting views in the outer courtyard. Here reigns a serene understanding — “tranquility in your palaces.”

(Adapted from Ein Eyah vol. II, pp.397-398)
"True peace comes from a proliferation of divergent views." Absolutely astonishing, to me a Protestant and son of Protestants. I wish Witness Lee had read this. Instead we got things taken out of context, to fit WL's perceived need in the Local Churches today.

My take on Psalm 1, 19, and 119 is my own subjective viewpoint, which may get radically modified by someone else's viewpoint. Like facets of a diamond, we all see aspects of the brilliance. The text in Psalm 1, 19 and 119 shows me a Man (Jesus) in relation to His Father in heaven, i.e. obedient to the Father's word.

This is suggested by verses like, "I come to do Thy will; behold in the roll of the book is written concerning Me", and "If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in His love." Jesus did everything according to the Father's command.

How deeply I want to read this - the obedience of the Son to His Father's word - into these tea leaves is of course a subjective response. As long as I admit it's simply one viewpoint among many, there is no problem (so I surmise).

Peace to all in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Shalom.
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Old 03-09-2016, 04:21 PM   #9
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47. "THE BOOK OF THE LAW." (From the Companion Bible, E.W. Bullinger)



It is an allegation of the "Higher" Criticism (which dispenses with documentary or MS. evidence, and therefore differs altogether from "Textual" Criticism) that the five books known as the Pentateuch were not written by, or during the time of Moses, but in the time of a king Manasseh, or even as late as Ezra.

But a definite "book" is spoken of throughout the Old Testament as being constantly written in, with directions how it was to be added to and kept up by the prophets raised up from time to time for that purpose, among others.

The first occurrence is in Ex. 17:14. To this, in the margin, all the others are referred back. They are given below, so that the chain may be examined link by link and its completeness and perfection seen.

  1. Ex. 17:14. Written by Jehovah's command (cp. Deut. 25:19). Heb. "the book" (bassepher).
  2. Ex. 24:4, 7. Written by Moses, and "the book of the covenant sprinkled", with the people.
  3. Ex. 34:27. Jehovah's command, "Write thou".
  4. Num. 33:1, 2. Written by Moses "by the commandment of Jehovah". From the first three months of the first year to last quarter of the fortieth year (cp. Deut. 1:2, 3 with 2:14).
  5. Deut. 1:5. The word "declare" = set forth plainly, and implies writing (the word occurs only in Deut. 27:8 and Hab. 2:2), and includes from Deut. 1:6 to 33:29.
  6. Deut. 4:8 includes more than this book of Deuteronomy, and 4:2 must refer to what was then written (cp. 26:16; 29:21).
  7. Deut. 17:18. The book kept "before the priests the Levites", and to be copied by the king. This was the standard copy (ch. 31:9, 25, 26); to be read at the Feast of Tabernacles in the Sabbatic years (ch. 31:10-13).
  8. Deut. 31:19, 22, 24. "The song of Moses" to be written (cp. the reason, vv. 16-18). Ascribed to Jehovah.
  9. Josh. 1:8. "This book of the law" came into custody of Joshua (cp. 1-8) as distinct from the book of Joshua, and containing, not Deuteronomy merely, but the whole "book of the law" as thus traced above (cp. Ps. 1:2. Luke 24:44).
  10. Josh. 8:30-35. A copy of the law made from "the book" on the rocks in mount Ebal.
  11. Josh. 23:6, 7 again referred to.
  12. Josh. 24:26. Joshua himself "wrote in the book", and doubtlessly added Deut. 34.
  13. 1Sam. 10:25. Samuel continued the writing in "the book". (So the Hebrew.)
  14. 1Kings 2:1-4. David charges Solomon with regard to this "written" law of Moses.
  15. 2Chron. 17:7-9. Jehoshaphat sent the princes, Levites, and priests, and they "taught in Judah, and had the book of the law of Jehovah with them".
  16. 2Chron. 23:11 (2Kings 11:12). It was given to Joash according to Deut. 17:18.
  17. 2Chron. 25:4 (2Kings 14:6). Amaziah spared the children of his father's murderers according to "that which was written in the book of the law of Moses" (cp. Deut. 24:4).
  18. 2Chron. 30:2, 5, 18. Hezekiah's passover kept in second month as "it is written:. This was written in Num. 9:6-14.
  19. 2Chron. 35:12. Josiah's passover kept "as it is written in the book of Moses".
  20. 2Kings 17:37. "The law ... which He wrote for you", i.e., Jehovah (cp. v. 35).
  21. 2Kings 22:8. "Hilkiah, the high priest ... found the book of the law in the house of the Lord". In v. 10, "Shaphan read it before the king" (Josiah). Huldah the prophetess confirms this reference (vv. 14-20). In 2Chron. 34:14 it is described as "the book of the law of Jehovah by the hand of Moses".
  22. Jeremiah refers to this event when he speaks, as in ch. 15:16.
  23. Isaiah refers to this book as, in 574 his day, a "sealed" book (ch. 29:11-13). The Lord Jesus refers to this as opposed to the "precepts of man" (Matt. 15:1-9. Mark 7:1-13).
  24. Ezra ascribes the law of Moses. Cp. 3:2 (Num. 28, 29); 6:18; 7:6, 10, 14, 21, 25. And all is to be done according to it (cp. 10:3 with 9:11, 12. Lev. 18:24-30, and Deut. 23:3-6).
  25. In Esther 3:8, the laws were extant, and known as "diverse from all people".
  26. Nehemiah (1:7-9) speaks to Jehovah of the "statutes and judgments He gave by Moses".
  27. Neh. 8:8. The book is read according to its requirements.
  28. Neh. 8:14, 17. The Feast of Tabernacles was kept according to Lev. 23:39-43.
  29. Neh. 10:28, 29. A solemn covenant was made "to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God".
  30. Neh. 13:1. "They read in the book of Moses" concerning the law as written in Deut. 23:3, 4.
  31. Daniel in his prayer (ch. 9:11) refers to the curse fulfilled on the nation as "written in the law of Moses the servant of God".
  32. Mal. 4:4 completes the cycle, and refers all to Horeb where the people received the law (as distinct from Sinai, where Moses received it), and to Moses by whom it was given (not to Ezra or to some "Redactors" of a later day).
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Old 03-10-2016, 09:01 PM   #10
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Very good connecting of the dots to show lineage of the written Old Testament.

I'm keeping this for future reference.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:35 PM   #11
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2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is divinely inspired, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness;

2Pe 1:21 for prophecy was not ever uttered by the will of man, but holy men of God spake under the power of the Holy Spirit.

The first verse tells us how was Scripture given (by inspiration), the second how Scripture came (holy men of God spake under the power of the Holy Spirit)

It is interesting to note that Paul and Peter wrote these words while they were ready to depart from this earth.

2Ti 4:6 For *I* am already being poured out, and the time of my release is come.
2Ti 4:7 I have combated the good combat, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

2Pe 1:14 knowing that the putting off of my tabernacle is speedily to take place , as also our Lord Jesus Christ has manifested to me;

For us who are still in this tabernacle, may the same Scriptures sustain, lead, preserve, build, nourish, wash, enlighten, us until we meet our Lord Jesus Christ.
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The verses are from the New Translation by J.N.Darby
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Old 03-15-2016, 12:30 PM   #12
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2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is divinely inspired, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; Christ.
Witness Lee taught that some scriptures were not divinely inspired but were the concepts of fallen men. I kid you not.

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2Pe 1:21 for prophecy was not ever uttered by the will of man, but holy men of God spake under the power of the Holy Spirit.
For example, Psalm 34:20 says, "Not one of His bones will be broken." Witness Lee allowed that this was divinely inspired, "Under the power of the Holy Spirit", since it was quoted in John chapter 19. But get this: the rest of the psalm was just fallen concepts! Fallen humans, dumb sinners like you and me, trying to be good, apart from God, writing vain words. And how was Witness Lee able to discern which were "divine" and which were "fallen"? What language skills did he possess, schooling or teaching? None, save his own supposedly oracular status. Talk about the blind leading the blind into a ditch.
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:54 PM   #13
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Witness Lee taught that some scriptures were not divinely inspired but were the concepts of fallen men. I kid you not.



For example, Psalm 34:20 says, "Not one of His bones will be broken." Witness Lee allowed that this was divinely inspired, "Under the power of the Holy Spirit", since it was quoted in John chapter 19. But get this: the rest of the psalm was just fallen concepts! Fallen humans, dumb sinners like you and me, trying to be good, apart from God, writing vain words. And how was Witness Lee able to discern which were "divine" and which were "fallen"? What language skills did he possess, schooling or teaching? None, save his own supposedly oracular status. Talk about the blind leading the blind into a ditch.
W. Lee's teaching about the human concept in some parts of the Bible, Psalms for example, is one of the worst errors in the 2000 years of church history.(IMHO)
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Old 03-20-2016, 12:28 AM   #14
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SIMILAR PREDICATES OF "CHRIST" AND "THE SCRIPTURES."

"His name is called THE WORD OF GOD," Rev 19:13.
They "pressed upon Him to hear THE WORD OF GOD," Luke 5:1.

The Prince of PEACE, Isa 9:6.
The Gospel of PEACE, Rom 10:15.

Jesus said,..."No man cometh unto the Father, but BY ME," John 14:6.
"Make me to go in the PATH of Thy Commandments," Psa 119:35.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am THE WAY," John 14:6.
"Teach me, O Lord, THE WAY of Thy statutes," Psa 119:33.

"I am...THE TRUTH," John 14:6.
"Thy Word is TRUTH," John 17:17.

Christ—"Full of grace and TRUTH," John 1:14.
"All Thy Commandments are TRUTH," Psa 119:151.

"These things saith He...that is TRUE," Rev 3:7.
"The Judgments of the Lord are TRUE," Psa 19:9.

"Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal LIFE," 1 John 5:20.
"Holding forth the Word of LIFE," Phil 2:16.

"A bone of Him shall not be broken," John 19:36.
"The scripture cannot be broken," John 10:35.

"I am the Living Bread...if any man eat of this Bread he shall LIVE for ever," John 6:51.
"Man shall not LIVE by bread alone, but by every Word of God," Luke 4:4.

"With Thee is the FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Psa 36:9.
"Thy Law...is a FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Prov 13:14.

Jesus said, "I am the LIGHT of the World," John 8:12.
David said, "Thy Word is a LIGHT unto my path," Psa 119:105.

"The Life was the LIGHT," John 1:4.
"The Law is LIGHT," Prov 6:23.

"Thou art my LAMP, O Lord," 2 Sam 22:29.
"Thy Word is a LAMP unto my feet," Psa 119:105.

"I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of FIRE," Zech 2:5.
"Is not My Word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord," Jer 23:29.

"The Light of Israel shall be for a FIRE," Isa 10:17.
"I will make My Words in thy mouth FIRE," Jer 5:14.

"To you which believe, He is PRECIOUS," 1 Peter 2:7.
"Exceeding great and PRECIOUS Promises," 2 Peter 1:4.

"My beloved is...chiefest among ten THOUSAND," Song 5:10.
"The Law of Thy mouth is better unto me than THOUSANDS of gold and silver," Psa 119:72.

"His Mouth is most SWEET," Song 5:16.
"How SWEET are Thy Words unto my taste," Psa 119:103.

"His Name shall be called WONDERFUL," Isa 9:6.
"Thy Testimonies are WONDERFUL," Psa 119:129.

"Christ, the POWER OF GOD," 1 Cor 1:24.
"The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD," Rom 1:16.

Lord, "Thou art GOOD, and doest Good," Psa 119:68.
"GOOD is the Word of the Lord," Isa 39:8.

"Ye have known Him that is FROM THE BEGINNING," 1 John 2:13.
"Thy Word is true FROM THE BEGINNING," Psa 119:160.

"From Everlasting to EVERLASTING Thou art God," Psa 90:2.
"The righteousness of Thy Testimonies is EVERLASTING," Psa 119:144.

"Thy throne, O God, is FOR EVER AND EVER," Heb 1:8.
"Thy testimonies,...Thou hast founded them FOR EVER," Psa 119:152.

"The Lord shall ENDURE for ever," Psa 9:7.
"The Word of the Lord ENDURETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:25.

"Christ ABIDETH for ever," John 12:34.
"The Word of God...ABIDETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23.

"Worship Him that LIVETH for ever," Rev 4:10.
"The Word of God LIVETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23.

Christ's Kingdom "shall STAND FOR EVER," Dan 2:44.
"The Word of our God shall STAND FOR EVER," Isa 40:8.

The STONE..."on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder," Luke 20:18.
"Is not my Word...saith the Lord, like a HAMMER that breaketh the rock in pieces?" Jer 23:29.

Christ, "A STUMBLING Stone," Rom 9:33.
They "STUMBLE at the Word," 1 Peter 2:8.

"Lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world," Matt 28:20.
"Thy commandments...are EVER WITH ME," Psa 119:98.

"Christ may DWELL in your hearts by faith," Eph 3:17.
"Let the Word of Christ DWELL in you richly," Col 3:16.

Christ said, "ABIDE in me, and I IN YOU," John 15:4.
"If... my Words ABIDE in you," John 15:7.

"Hereby we know that He ABIDETH in us," 1 John 3:24.
"The Word of God ABIDETH in you," 1 John 2:14.

Christ called, "FAITHFUL and true," Rev 19:11.
"Thy Testimonies...are very FAITHFUL," Psa 119:138.

"Out of His mouth goeth a sharp SWORD," Rev 19:15.
"The Word of God...is sharper than any two-edged SWORD," Heb 4:12.*

* Heb 4:12 probably refers to both the Living Word and the written Word also.

"The Lord TRIETH the Righteous," Psa 11:5.
"The Word of the Lord TRIED him," Psa 105:19.

Christ a "TRIED Stone," Isa 28:16.
"The Word of the Lord is TRIED," Psa 18:30.

SIMILAR EFFECTS ATTRIBUTED TO "CHRIST" AND "THE SCRIPTURES."


We are "BORN OF God," 1 John 5:18.
"BORN...by the Word of God," 1 Peter 1:23.

"BEGOTTEN...by...Jesus Christ," 1 Peter 1:3.
BEGOTTEN...through The Gospel," 1 Cor 4:15.

"The Son QUICKENETH whom He will," John 5:21.
"Thy Word hath QUICKENED me," Psa 119:50.

"You hath he QUICKENED who were dead," &c., Eph 2:1.
"Thy Precepts...with them thou hast QUICKENED me," Psa 119:93.

"He that eateth me, even he shall LIVE by me," John 6:57.
"Desire the sincere milk of The Word, that ye may GROW thereby," 1 Peter 2:2.

"Christ hath made us FREE," Gal 5:1.
"The Truth shall make you FREE," John 8:32.

"The Blood of Jesus Christ...CLEANSETH us from all sin," 1 John 1:7.
"YE are CLEAN through the Word which I have spoken," John 15:3.

Christ "is able also to SAVE them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him," Heb 7:25.
"Receive...the engrafted Word, which is able to SAVE your souls," James 1:21.

"SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus," 1 Cor 1:2.
"SANCTIFIED by the Word of God and prayer," 1 Tim 4:5.

"SANCTIFIED through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all," Heb 10:10.
"SANCTIFY them through THY TRUTH. Thy Word is truth," John 17:17.

"Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us WISDOM," 1 Cor 1:30.
"The Holy Scriptures...able to make thee WISE unto salvation," 2 Tim 3:15.

Christ "HEALED them," Matt 4:24.
"He sent His Word and HEALED them," Psa 107:20.

"Striving according to His Working which WORKETH in me mightily," Col 1:29.
"The Word of God which effectually WORKETH also in you that believe," 1 Thess 2:13.

"The Lord Jesus Christ...shall JUDGE the quick and the dead," 2 Tim 4:1.
"The Word that I have spoken...shall JUDGE him," John 12:48.

"I will go unto God, my exceeding Joy," Psa 43:4.
"Thy Word was unto me the JOY and rejoicing of my heart," Jer 15:16.

Thus we see that the Living Word and the Written Word cannot be separated. And we can understand also why they cannot be separated in the preaching of the Word.

To preach the Written Word without preaching Christ is not preaching at all. Neither is it done in the power of the Spirit.

How to Enjoy the Bible
E. W. Bullinger
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Old 03-20-2016, 04:07 PM   #15
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Thanks for sharing these parallels and main point from Bullinger, testallthings...
Sets my heart on fire for the Word of God, Jesus Christ!
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:44 PM   #16
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The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible.

F. B. Hole.
....

"Let us open the Bible, then, with the simple thought of ascertaining what it has to say about itself, and what are its claims.

In the Old Testament three things strike us. First, that in the opening chapters we are told of things completely outside the range of the observation of any human writer, things indeed clean outside any knowledge that could be possessed apart from a divine revelation, since happenings before man's creation are recounted; and further, that these things are stated not in terms befitting human speculation but with the quiet ring and assurance of absolute knowledge, and therefore of truth.

Secondly, in all the historical books we find features utterly unknown in all human histories. We may specify such a feature as the complete absence of all hero worship. Men, indeed, there are, approved of God, but even so their failings are recounted, just as any commendable feature in the worst of men is mentioned; and all with a lofty detachment from human passions and prejudices, with an impartial and serene judgment which is found only in God Himself. Or, again, we notice that matters, that we never should have even mentioned, are dwelt upon at considerable length — such as the passages Judges 17, 18:14-26, and 1 Samuel 1:4 to 2:11 — while things we should have thought worthy of much notice are ignored; for instance, the great earthquake in the reign of Uzziah is never mentioned historically, and we should have no knowledge that the great catastrophe happened were it not for two passing allusions in Amos and Zechariah. The historical books, in short, are only "history" in so far as its recital serves the purpose of illuminating the purposes or the ways of God.

Thirdly, in the prophets we cannot but feel the directness of their appeal. No hesitation, no apologies; but the most direct and emphatic "Thus saith the Lord" repeated again and again. The Word of God came through their lips and pens, and its powerful appeal to heart and conscience is perceptible today in the hostility their words still awaken in sinful men, as well as in the way of subduing men's hearts with a view to their ultimate blessing."

from: STEM Publishing : F. B. Hole : Foundations : The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible.http://www.stempublishing.com/author...spiration.html
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:04 PM   #17
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Thanks for sharing this testallthings! So true! Three striking aspects of the Old Testament that testify the words are inspired from God .
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:12 PM   #18
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READING THE BIBLE


A new believer who recently has received the Lord should not engage himself in intense research of the Bible for at least six months because he is not familiar with the Bible as a whole yet. He should rather spend a few months to read through the whole Bible and familiarize himself with it in a general way. After this he can begin serious study of the Bible...
George Müller read the Old and New Testament a hundred times during his lifetime... I hope that you, like Mr. Müller, can read through the Bible a hundred times during your lifetime. If a person wants to read through the Bible a hundred times, assuming that he lives for fifty years as a Christian, he will have to go through the whole Bible at least twice a year. You can see why you need to spend much time to read the Bible.
(New Believers Series: Reading the Bible #9, Chapter 1, Section 6)
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=2CCBF8ECDA
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Old 06-18-2016, 03:17 AM   #19
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No matter what you think about the inspiration of the Bible, never stop reading it. May its words shape our thoughts and our language. I wish that more and more of what is posted on this forum comes from the reading and meditation of the Word of God, and less and less from our own feelings, opinions and ideas.
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Old 06-18-2016, 04:29 PM   #20
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No matter what you think about the inspiration of the Bible, never stop reading it. May its words shape our thoughts and our language. I wish that more and more of what is posted on this forum comes from the reading and meditation of the Word of God, and less and less from our own feelings, opinions and ideas.
Amen that!
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:49 PM   #21
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"George Müller read the Old and New Testament a hundred times during his lifetime... I hope that you, like Mr. Müller, can read through the Bible a hundred times during your lifetime. If a person wants to read through the Bible a hundred times, assuming that he lives for fifty years as a Christian, he will have to go through the whole Bible at least twice a year. You can see why you need to spend much time to read the Bible."
It takes approximately 15minutes daily to read through the Bible in one year. - This has been pounded into my head by my father. Unfortunately, I am not that faithful.
This whole thread has been so inspiring!
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Old 10-10-2016, 09:39 PM   #22
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"George Müller read the Old and New Testament a hundred times during his lifetime... I hope that you, like Mr. Müller, can read through the Bible a hundred times during your lifetime. If a person wants to read through the Bible a hundred times, assuming that he lives for fifty years as a Christian, he will have to go through the whole Bible at least twice a year. You can see why you need to spend much time to read the Bible."
It takes approximately 15minutes daily to read through the Bible in one year. - This has been pounded into my head by my father. Unfortunately, I am not that faithful.
This whole thread has been so inspiring!
Exodus16, the purpose of reading the Bible is not to be faithful, but to be wise unto salvation (2 Timothy 3:15). It is possible to be a faithful Christian without reading the bible at all.
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Old 10-10-2016, 09:42 PM   #23
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The Importance of Accuracy in the Study of the Words of Scripture.

This canon will be con
ceded by all as one of the first magnitude. Accuracy is everywhere
demanded, and in every department of life, and in every branch of service.
How many calamities and disasters have occurred from a want of accuracy. The want of
accuracy in understanding a word of command led to the disastrous cavalry charge at Balaclava.
Want of accuracy or the misunderstanding of a word in a correspondence has led to the
separation of close friends or the miscarriage of important business.
Inaccuracy is no less disastrous in the reading and study of the Word of God.
It is said of a poorly-informed preacher in southern Illinois, that he took his text from Luke 14:4,
and read it out "And he took him, and held him, and let him go." The preacher was trying to
explain the difficulty thus created, when a daring interrupter called, out, "My Bible says, 'He
healed him, and let him go.'" As may be imagined, the proposed exegesis was brought to a
sudden close.
But there are many popular difficulties of which this is a typical example; and which might all
be ended as suddenly, if a similar remark were made.
How long shall we hear of the Fall as having been brought about by the eating of an apple? And
how soon would the fiction vanish if we would exclaim, "My Bible doesn't say apple."
How long shall we hear about Jonah's being swallowed by the whale? when we could stop it by
simply saying "My Bible doesn't say whale." Jonah 1:17 says, "The LORD had prepared a great
fish."*
* The Lord Jesus used the word khtoV (ketos) in Matthew 12:40. It is a pity that any
ground was given to the cry of the Infidel and the Higher Critics by translating it
"whale" in the AV. But it is unpardonable of the RV to perpetuate it, when it puts in
the margin "Greek sea-monster," though the words of Jonah 1:17, "a great fish," were
ready to their hand. Why not have put "sea-monster" or "great fish" in the Text?
How long are we to hear about the sin of the children of Israel by command of God, as
borrowing without intention of returning the property of the Egyptians (Exo 3:22, 11:2,
12:35,36)? Our AV seems to say this, and has thus provided material for scoffers. The RV
rightly translates the Hebrew l)a#$af (sha'al), to ask: and out of one hundred and sixty-eight
occurrences it is only six times rendered in the AV borrow; while in all the other one hundred
and sixty-two passages it is rendered ask, beg, require, or some similar word. (See Psa 2:8, "Ask
of me," etc.: this, surely, cannot mean "Borrow of me?")
The same want of accuracy in reading the sacred text has led to the mistakes of artists as well as
of theologians. For angels are always represented as women instead of men; and in the piercing
of the Lord the heart is always represented as being on the right side instead of on the left.
Similar are the mistakes of interpreters.
"Ye do ALWAY resist the Holy Ghost" (Acts 7:51) is quoted to prove that men can successfully
withstand the Spirit, instead of stumbling at His words.
While "Ye WILL NOT come unto me" (lit., "will not to come": John 5:40) is quoted to prove
that men will to come; and this, in spite of Philippians 2:13.
And in 1 Corinthians 16:1, the injunction to lay by in store, that there be "no collection," is used
to support the modern practice of having a collection at every service.
The Lord's Supper, in spite of its being so called, and being instituted as part of a meal, is
ordered by all Romanizers to be taken in the morning, fasting.
"Blood and Fire," which is a description of the judgment of the great Day of the LORD (Joel
2:30), is adopted as the symbol of salvation by His grace.
Instead of hearing what the Spirit saith to the churches we are commanded by man to hear what
the Church says to us; and to heed "the voice of the Church."
The same want of accuracy leads those who set themselves up as "Higher" Critics to forget that
it is the Word of God which is to be their critic, or judge. (Heb 4:12, "discerner." Greek critic or
judge. Compare John 12:48, and see Number in Scripture, p. 70.)
These and many other examples are sufficient to emphasize the importance of accuracy in our
reading of Scripture if we would avoid falling into mistakes and blunders of any kind.

How to Enjoy the Bible
E. W. Bullinger
1916
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Old 10-11-2016, 06:52 AM   #24
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Exodus16, the purpose of reading the Bible is not to be faithful, but to be wise unto salvation (2 Timothy 3:15). It is possible to be a faithful Christian without reading the bible at all.
Yup. Thank you.
My regret is just this, how many opportunities have I wasted? Many believers have paid a heavy price to read scriptures but I allow unimportant things or just my own laziness to prevent me from searching out Christ in the Bible.

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom"
as I type it, the tune I've sung it to pervades my mind but there is a verse reference for it too
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:25 AM   #25
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Exodus16, the purpose of reading the Bible is not to be faithful, but to be wise unto salvation (2 Timothy 3:15). It is possible to be a faithful Christian without reading the bible at all.
Yeah, "faithful" to LSM.

I know what that is like.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:00 PM   #26
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Here's a verse I read today:
The word is very near to you, even in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. Deut 30:14

There is no discussion point in this post. I just liked the verse - it reminds of the Shema - but better
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:42 AM   #27
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No matter what you think about the inspiration of the Bible, never stop reading it. May its words shape our thoughts and our language. I wish that more and more of what is posted on this forum comes from the reading and meditation of the Word of God, and less and less from our own feelings, opinions and ideas.
Amen.
Thank you testallthings.
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:47 AM   #28
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Here's a verse I read today:
The word is very near to you, even in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. Deut 30:14
An excellent verse.

The point is to do it.

Not that it is in your mouth and heart to feel, sense, eat, or anything else.
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