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Calling All Saints! This board will serve as a meeting place for ex Local Church members to reestablish contact with other former and current members. GUESTS may post here as well.

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Old 01-22-2009, 04:00 PM   #1
countmeworthy
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Default Time Frame in the LSM/LC

I'd like to ask LCrs and former LCrs how long you were under Lee's ministry.

For some, we were in it a short time relatively speaking and others a long time. For some, we were in it in the 70's..short or long..others came into the LC in the 80's, still others in the 90s. Yet no matter when we came in or for how long, I think it is notable how we were affected no matter the time frame.


My time there was from 1975-1979ish.. 4 yrs approx.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:52 PM   #2
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Fall 1985 through Spring of 1989
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:06 PM   #3
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First contacted the saints in Cleveland during June of 1973. First contact with WL/LSM in July of 1976 at the Revelations training.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:13 PM   #4
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Was raised in the local churches from 1971ish to 1986. Resumed meeting as an adult 1993-2000.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:25 PM   #5
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1970 to 1978
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:16 AM   #6
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I have been in the Local Church from 1979 to the present- about 30 years.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:42 AM   #7
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Jan 1971 - Jan 2001 = 30 yrs on the church phone lists in Seattle, Indianapolis, Chicago, Federal Way, (WA), Seattle again, San Diego

Jan 2009 = 8 yrs in "discipline" mode (Bellevue/Seattle) and on the church phone list no longer .
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:48 AM   #8
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June 2004 - present
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:27 AM   #9
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Thanks everyone for your input thus far!

I think it helps us all see something about our own personal experiences in the LC and LC/LSM. It may help us understand one another a little better.

I find it almost comical that my tenure & ABICs compared to most are the shortest and so far, I'm at the far end with ABIC at the other... with Christ Jesus and His Holy Spirit being our life line to our Heavenly Father and Creator.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:06 AM   #10
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Excellent thread to give us some perspective as we communicate.

For many of us, I do not believe it is as simple as date entered and date left. Thus I will give a 50,000 foot fly over of my local church chronology.

First meeting was early September, 1965 in Waco Texas. Did not miss another meeting and was in daily contact with someone from the church in Waco until August, 1969.

Moved to Houston and was probably in 99% of meetings and was a deacon until July, 1971. Moved to Dallas and was in church as an elder until August, 1986 when I moved to Chapel Hill, NC. Dropped out of any type of leadership and began a kind of Arabia experience of re-examining the teaching and practice of the then current LSM version of the local church as well as the earlier version of the local church. Had some fellowship with others who were reevaluating or had "concerns." Slowly moving out of the LSM/WL circle until complete break in the fall of 1989. Stopped all contact with any persons or places related to the LSM. Got a real job and worked 70-80 hours per week and by the Lord's mercy kept the financial wolves off the front porch and sent three children to college.

Never stopped praying, reading the Bible, sharing the good news of Jesus Christ, pursuing assembling with other believers and endeavoring to keep the oneness of the Spirit. Avoided all responsibility at a church level. Kept mouth shut and ears open at the church level.

Forgot about the past and focused on the future until the fall of 2006. Before this time, I had three clear contacts with the past, two business trips to Texas with a stop off to see Don Looper, 2001 & 2002. Received John Meyers and wife and daughter when they passed through NC in 2005.

Visited the assembly in Scottsdale Arizona three times in nineties and two or three times since the turn of the century. Was contacted a few times by John Ingalls and Bill Mallon and visited the assembly in West Minster three or maybe four times.

Kept up a very casual contact with old friends from the church in Dallas. Visited them maybe two times. In 1992 ran into John and Jane Anderson for about 45 minutes. Heard about her run in with Benson for the first time. She had made the assumption that I knew all about it. I only knew by osmosis that there had been some kind of falling out with the church in Houston and the Andersons. I cannot ever remember them visiting anyone in the church in Dallas or attending any meetings except for one or two large conferences.

Was introduced to the Berean Forum in the late fall of 2006. I have probably had more contact with former local churchers on the Internet than any other way since 1989.

A believer in Christ Jesus,

Hope, Don Rutledge

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Old 01-23-2009, 03:58 PM   #11
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Began visiting roughly November, 72. Cut ties and fully "one with the church" January 1, 1973. Left in August, 1987. 14-1/2 years in all. Only one "meeting" since — my mother's funeral. Will never again if I can help it.
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:51 PM   #12
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My tenure began as a 5 year old in 1967 until I was 18 in 1980. An entire childhood.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:31 PM   #13
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My tenure began as a 5 year old in 1967 until I was 18 in 1980. An entire childhood.

Oh man, that hit me. I think 'we, us' who have escaped understand this so well. An entire childhood. Geez.
I can feel that.

1970-1978. I was 19 and was there until I was 27. One of the best decades in a person's life, in a way --

You know, after we were out, and after we had figured out (my husband and I) how to make friends (after such a cloistered life, I wasn't sure), we would be with friends and things would come up about American culture things from the 70's -- books, music, movies, tv shows -- even national or world events -- and I would be blank. I was so embarrassed to admit I had no idea what someone was talking about. I felt like from outer space, or something. Eventually, we had friends I could trust and I shared the story with them, and they started sort of teaching me the things we had missed. Oh, yeah, of course I know that missing most of it was no big loss (alot of silly TV those years, huh? And I don't think the music was that good either. Sorry any 70's people ) I still have times when I encounter a blank in my knowledge of common things.

I was 30 the first time I voted. I had been very political, speaking out against Viet Nam and for civil rights -- and then I was 'captured, wrecked, ruined' and just checked out of everything. Think Timothy Leary -- I dropped out.


I had always always been a reader --- taught myself how when I was four, loved to read. When I was 27, after 8 years of only reading one or two authors, I didn't even know what I liked to read. Or what I dared to read, without enraging God with wickedness. So I thought James Mitchner would be safe -- it was history stories! -- and not sinful. Read about 8 of his books before I dared try anything else. For a while I read these Christian sort of woman novels that were in racks at the grocery market, thinking it was a holier thing to read or something. If any of you love that sort of book, please allow me to say I was bored and found them somewhat silly.

Anyway, it is all to say that juliep, you no doubt had a lot of things to learn and catch up with, depending on how strict your family had been. I get it. It's one of the reasons we are here, on this forum -- to hear that, and get it. And know that you and others will get what I am saying too.

My oldest son was only four when we escaped, and our younger son hadn't been born yet. We have told them all about it -- I think they are amazed we did such outlandish things.

This understanding between us is the best reason for the forum, I think.


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Old 02-16-2009, 07:01 AM   #14
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My tenure began as a 5 year old in 1967 until I was 18 in 1980. An entire childhood.

Yeah...but look where you are living today!! Hawaii!!! Paradise lost ..and found? I hope so! Maybe not a perfect paradise but a paradise compared to what you grew up in..for sure!
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:01 PM   #15
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Dear Julie,
I encourage you with this verse from Joel 2:25-
'I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten...You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied'
We have all experienced some years that have been eaten up. But the Lord plans to restore us and bring us to a place where we can eat and be satisfied.
I have started going to a local meeting of christians here and my, I am satisfied there. No gnawing hunger and distress of the soul. My husband and I are only just learning how to read the bible together and how to take care of each other. But, praise God, it is happening at last.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:07 PM   #16
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Yes to what Finallyprettyok said. A childhood in the LC was very different to say the least. I was always the "odd one" in school. You know how we had to wear dresses (down or below the knees) everyday because pants were "wordly". Back then bell bottoms were the style and no one wore dresses but me.
I always loved going to my grandparents house to visit because I could watch TV, of course we didnt have one (also wordly).
I was never close to my parents, as a young child there were meetings pretty much every night of the week. Sunday night Lords Table, Wed night Prayer mtg., Friday night regular meeeting, Saturday night Love Feast. Pretty sure there was Young Peoples Meeting Monday night (for the college age attendees). During those meetings we were left at another members houses, then woken up and taken to our own home to finish out the night. (Didnt make for the best rest for young children). Of course the parents justified it as for the Lord, and besides we were kids and fell back to sleep, nothing like being woken up out of REM sleep. (Yes, there is bitterness in between the lines, or not so in between) This was my life. (Of course for the sisters taking turns babysitting, I'm sure this schedule was not piece of cake, and meant their own children and families suffered from the intrusion and spouses/fathers gone from the home.)
We always had sisters living with us, lastly near a college in Dallas, SMU, which most have probably heard of. They lived upstairs and we all shared one bathroom. If I remember correctly there were at times up to 5 Sisters in the house. Again, quit a destraction for the family unit. Needless to say, as a child and as an adult, quite a bit of resentment there for never really having a close family. To this day, I'm very uncomfortable when it comes to family. I'm not close to my siblings, have no relationship with my parents and actually have trouble trusting and getting close to anyone. Please be aware, this is my experience, and not meant to upset anyone.
I agree with Joanne, as an adult the Lord has been faithful in His love to me. He did indeed put me in Hawaii. (Wish I'd known back then that was going to be my reward for all I was going through.)
Enough for now, with love.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:11 PM   #17
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...as an adult the Lord has been faithful in His love to me. He did indeed put me in Hawaii. (Wish I'd known back then that was going to be my reward for all I was going through.)
Enough for now, with love.
Juliep...if you like...really like Hawaii, I'd put in 'first DIB' to rule and reign over Hawaii during the Milleniel Kingdom! Hey...make your REQUEST be made known unto GOD...with THANKSGIVING! Ask & you shall receive! Hold the LORD to His WORD!
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:30 PM   #18
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I have just found this website - I don't know why I thought to look for LSM today - maybe the Lord's leading when a tune reminded me of a hymn...
I was saved in spring 1973 and met the LC through saints in the NW of England in that autumn. The following spring we all went to a LC conference in Germany. I was caught - dropped out of university, married a brother and eventually moved with him to establish a LC in a large university city, where I still live. And I'm still married to that brother.
In the 70s and 80s we travelled to churches across Europe, and I visited Anaheim once (the second Revelation training).
I won't tell my husband's story - perhaps he may do it himself - but after the encroachment of LSM issues, I eventually stopped meeting with the saints in 1992.
I don't meet anywhere, but am still in touch with a few of the saints. I miss the singing, the ministry of the word and the fellowship, but I still love the Lord.
I don't know whether anyone will read this post (Don Rutledge - I remember Mrs Bear's bread!), but I have enjoyed reading your various messages.
The Lord be with your spirits.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:06 PM   #19
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I don't meet anywhere, but am still in touch with a few of the saints. I miss the singing, the ministry of the word and the fellowship, but I still love the Lord.
I don't know whether anyone will read this post (Don Rutledge - I remember Mrs Bear's bread!), but I have enjoyed reading your various messages.
The Lord be with your spirits.
FES, Manchester UK
And grace to you, sister!

There's a number of us hanging round online too.

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Old 04-14-2010, 02:38 PM   #20
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I have just found this website - I don't know why I thought to look for LSM today - maybe the Lord's leading when a tune reminded me of a hymn...
I was saved in spring 1973 and met the LC through saints in the NW of England in that autumn. The following spring we all went to a LC conference in Germany. I was caught - dropped out of university, married a brother and eventually moved with him to establish a LC in a large university city, where I still live. And I'm still married to that brother.
In the 70s and 80s we travelled to churches across Europe, and I visited Anaheim once (the second Revelation training).
I won't tell my husband's story - perhaps he may do it himself - but after the encroachment of LSM issues, I eventually stopped meeting with the saints in 1992.
I don't meet anywhere, but am still in touch with a few of the saints. I miss the singing, the ministry of the word and the fellowship, but I still love the Lord.
I don't know whether anyone will read this post (Don Rutledge - I remember Mrs Bear's bread!), but I have enjoyed reading your various messages.
The Lord be with your spirits.
FES, Manchester UK
Hi Fes,
Wow...the UK is where you are ! Cool !!
Welcome but just so you know, this forum is not as active as the public square berean. However, the other board is more hostile towards the LSMrs and LCrs and the LSMrs are not cool towards the former LCrs.

But as for ME....and my house, we WILL serve the Lord. Keep your eyes on the Lord Jesus Christ. His Precious Holy Spirit is the Revelator of the Word of GOD...to GOD be all the Glory, Honor and Praise with Thanksgiving.

Carol
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Old 04-14-2010, 04:05 PM   #21
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Carol and YP...
Thank you for your welcome.
Perhaps I will register here.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:35 PM   #22
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Carol and YP...
Thank you for your welcome.
Perhaps I will register here.
FES
Hope SO !!
I'd like to post more often here but I don't know how many readers there are.

We here truly love the Word of God and speaking for myself, I am grateful for my time in the LC which was from 1975-78/79 in San Diego.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:45 AM   #23
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Spring of 1994 to present.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:36 AM   #24
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First contact with John Ingles and Bill Freeman at small conference in Everett Washington in the spring of 1970. Was quite active in the local churches from the summer of 1970 up till 2007. I served as an elder in one locality for a number of years but no longer had a real heart for what the local churches were becoming after the "New Way" was set in by Witness Lee from 1986 on and the ever increasing exclusion of anything that was not from "the ministry".

I remember when the church book room not only sold books by Witness Lee and Watchman Nee but also displayed and sold books written by Andrew Murray, Jesse Penn-Lewis, William Law, Reese Howel, and others. We believed and practiced the "generality" of the church back then as taught to us by Witness Lee which was to "earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints" ......and to be general about everything else and thus avoid creating more divisions. This belief and practice may still be in Witness Lee's writings but I don't believe it is the practice of the churches anymore.
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Old 07-17-2010, 03:33 PM   #25
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Hi. 1990 - 2005 as an active member. Since then contact with LC members gradually tailed off to one or two meetings a year and visits to a brother once a week. In 2009 I began to seek contact other christians outside the collective.
I'm not at liberty to tell you which localities I participated in as I'm not comfortable yet with the idea of talking with ex-LC who may know me personally. I hope you understand.

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Old 07-17-2010, 04:31 PM   #26
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Hi. 1990 - 2005 as an active member. Since then contact with LC members gradually tailed off to one or two meetings a year and visits to a brother once a week. In 2009 I began to seek contact other christians outside the collective.
I'm not at liberty to tell you which localities I participated in as I'm not comfortable yet with the idea of talking with ex-LC who may know me personally. I hope you understand.

11of101
Hey fellow ex LSM Borg.. Most of us don't share our true identities and the localities we were in....
Some of us have met face to face. Some of us know each other outside the forum...And some of us have talked on the phone to each other.

You're fitting in just fine.

P.S. How many years in the FTT ? How soon after entering FTT did you begin seeing through the facade of it all ? What 'classes' do they 'teach' at the FTT ? Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:11 PM   #27
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How many years in the FTT ?
How soon after entering FTT did you begin seeing through the facade of it all ? What 'classes' do they 'teach' at the FTT ?


1) Too many years in religion, too many years in the FTT... remember that one. It took 2 years to perfect the goosestep.
2) It took another 5 years to finally peer through the curtain and see the wizard of Oz & all his wizardy but would not acknowledge to myself what I had seen. yet I still felt I could be a part of the saints lives. I found it very hard to leave. It was all I knew. It was my life. I believed that I could be an active member and be neutral to LSM post-Lee. I stayed (physically) away waiting for the Lord to somehow convince me that what I saw was just my 'opinion'. I was still dedicated to the original 'pristine vision' and only met up with saints socially 'cos that's all I could do.
3) The Word, The Spirit, The Body, The New Jerusalem, Church History. LS of Acts & Galatians, Song of Songs. LSM material only, obviously. The military mindset - no opinion - let to say Amen, left me braindead. I found it hard to go shopping after the FTT. I was not used to making my own choices. Some choices were devastating. Using Full Metal Jacket as an analogy, the LSM objective is to promote and protect WL's vision even if that turns you into killer, "a minister of death praying for war". Eventually you kill others. I 'killed' my ex-wife.
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:27 AM   #28
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Countmeworthy,

This is a very good thread! I had not noticed it until it now resurfaced. Thanks for starting it. I was not aware that you had only been in for 4 years.

I touched the LC when many moved to Houston from other towns/cities in Texas around 1971. I was taken with the "freshness" of just loving Jesus and meeting in His name and praying the word of God. The scriptures were "living and operative" and the praise of the brothers and sisters in song and word was genuine. I felt at home and blessed to be among an entire group of people who were "taking the Lord at His word" and fully trusting (and obeying I thought).

My husband and I married in 1972 and were giving our all for the "Lord's Recovery." We definitely were like the frog in the slowly simmering pot as we focused more and more on "the building up of the body."

Around 1976 just before the birth of our second child my husband decided he had had enough. He really is not a team player and by nature is quite opinionated, so it is surprising that he had lasted from 1971 to 1976, five years. Unfortunately he definitely bought into the idea of it's either the LC (the TRUE body of Christ) or the world. So he left and gave no diligence to meet with others for 13 years, during which time I hung in there at the LC (always telling my husband that I would be willing to worship God anywhere he chose). Finally, after many life experiences and with our children being teenagers, we began seeking the Lord together around 1989 and were invited to an established denomination where our children were fed and cared for and were able to develop some semblance of normal worship—just in time for their high school experiences, thank God!

The Lord has not given up on us and we continue to seek him as we now learn the lessons of growing old and passing on the Faith to our children and grandchildren.
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:31 AM   #29
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Countmeworthy,
This is a very good thread! I had not noticed it until it now resurfaced. Thanks for starting it. I was not aware that you had only been in for 4 years.
Thanks bookworm... Yeah..only 4 years but I was a die hard for the Lord and the church...that's why it seems I was in it a lot longer than I was AND also why I did not experience the hardships so many former LCrs did. I was not necessarily a follower of Witness Lee even though I read the life studies, went to conferences and a couple of trainings in Anaheim. For whatever reason, Lee never made me go 'oooooh! gah-gah for Lee'. I never talked about him to the saints. I talked about the WORD and what I was getting from it. I much rather preferred listening to the messages given by our local elder who had been a Baptist preacher. You would have liked my locality I'm sure.

That is until we began to hear all about 'brother Lee'. Brother Lee said this and said that...and "Praise the lord for brother Lee." I started getting really tired hearing all about 'Lee'.

Like you, it seemed we were sold out for Jesus in the beginning. I felt exactly like you did
Quote:
at home and blessed to be among an entire group of people who were "taking the Lord at His word" and fully trusting (and obeying I thought).
It is also true
Quote:
The scriptures were "living and operative" and the praise of the brothers and sisters in song and word was genuine.
The Scriptures still are perhaps even more alive, more active, more powerful, more operative today IN me than they were back in the day. And Hebrews 4:12 is one scripture I pray all the time! I love that scripture and I remind people all the time of that scripture.

I recently picked up a small little booklet by Charles Capp. In it he writes: TRAIN yourself to speak the Word of God. Now for that reason alone, I am grateful for my time in the LC because it was there I was TRAINED to speak the Word of God. But having left the LC, I have taken speaking and praying the Word of God to a much higher level Thank you very Much with the Help of the Holy Spirit teaching me how to do it.


Hope to see you at the Cherith this year !
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Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:57 PM   #30
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Countmeworthy,

The Lord has not given up on us and we continue to seek him as we now learn the lessons of growing old and passing on the Faith to our children and grandchildren.
Rock on, Bw.

"herein lies the endurance and the patience of the saints" ...something like that anyway (I specialize in approximations). From Revelations 13
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:07 PM   #31
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Met breifly in 2000
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:11 PM   #32
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Welcome to the Forum WacoTX!

We look forward to your participation. Please feel free to go to the Introductions and Testimonies board and let us know a little something about yourself and your Local Church experience.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:07 PM   #33
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I personally knew countmeworthy in SD. I was saved in 1974 when I was 14 yrs old, at a love-feast with my school friend. I met with the church until 1988 when I moved to Orange County and tried to meet with a church there, only to hit a block wall when I was trying to reconcile the "New Move", LSM and the trying to meet with a clear conscience. I left all fellowship, communication with the LCrs in 1990.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:21 PM   #34
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Well...
1976-2006 RIP
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:07 AM   #35
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I personally knew countmeworthy in SD. I was saved in 1974 when I was 14 yrs old, at a love-feast with my school friend. I met with the church until 1988 when I moved to Orange County and tried to meet with a church there, only to hit a block wall when I was trying to reconcile the "New Move", LSM and the trying to meet with a clear conscience. I left all fellowship, communication with the LCrs in 1990.
Hey SAINT !

Glad you posted here ! I didn't know you got saved in 1974. I got saved in 1975. I remember the first Love feast I went to. It was 6 days after I got saved. I didn't know what to expect but I LOVED it. The next day I moved in with the sisters living with L & C. And while it took me a sec to place you, I remember you soo very well. I'm glad I got saved in San Diego..and was in the church there.

Glad you turned your heart back to the LORD. So many of us have. He loves us sooo very much. We can't help but be drawn by His unchanging, unconditional LOVE for us.

Welcome !
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:52 PM   #36
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My name is Kelly. . .i began meeting with Christans on Campus when I was about 18. . . Since then my meting with them has been off and on... I am at a place in my life where i need, especially for my children's sake to begin fellowship with others who dearl love the Lord. My email is address is kellyrercenbrack1@gmail.com.

In Christ,
Kelly Ercannrack
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:10 PM   #37
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My name is Kelly. . .i began meeting with Christans on Campus when I was about 18. . . Since then my meting with them has been off and on... I am at a place in my life where i need, especially for my children's sake to begin fellowship with others who dearl love the Lord. My email is address is kellyrercenbrack1@gmail.com.

In Christ,
Kelly Ercannrack
Kelly,
I have sent you a couple of emails in response to this. I don't know if you have received them or not. So if by chance you run across this reply please email me at LocalChurchDiscussions@Gmail.Com, let me know what you want for your UserName and then I'll reply right away with a temporary password.

Your brother who is unto Him
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Old 04-26-2014, 06:53 AM   #38
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I was in LC from fall of 72 to Jan 2013. Slow learner. Started going badly downhill in early 2000s when RK came out with "there should be only one interpretation of the Bible." Pope?

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Old 04-26-2014, 07:12 AM   #39
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I was in LC from fall of 72 to Jan 2013. Slow learner. Started going badly downhill in early 2000s when RK came out with "there should be only one interpretation of the Bible." Pope?

Liisbon

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, that was based on a "startling discovery" in the book of Nee, where he supposedly affirmed that "when there are two interpretations of a scripture, then somebody is not holding the Head."

Imagine that! And we all know that only LSM can be truly holding "the head." This then became grounds to prepare for a couple huge quarantines. What they forget to tell people was their "head" was not Jesus the Lord, but Lee himself posthumously.
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Old 04-26-2014, 09:19 AM   #40
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Lisbon
, that was based on a "startling discovery" in the book of Nee, where he supposedly affirmed that "when there are two interpretations of a scripture, then somebody is not holding the Head."
Hey bro Ohio, will you please source Nee's book ... pretty please with a cherry on top.

And maybe both aren't holding the head.
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Old 04-26-2014, 11:30 AM   #41
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Hey bro Ohio, will you please source Nee's book ... pretty please with a cherry on top.

And maybe both aren't holding the head.
If we hold the Head, we cannot have different interpretations of Scripture. Differences arise when someone is not holding the Head, because He cannot possibly say one thing to one member and something else to another.... (The Collected Works of Watchman Nee, vol. 44, pp. 812-813)
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Old 04-26-2014, 01:17 PM   #42
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If we hold the Head, we cannot have different interpretations of Scripture. Differences arise when someone is not holding the Head, because He cannot possibly say one thing to one member and something else to another.... (The Collected Works of Watchman Nee, vol. 44, pp. 812-813)
Thanks. Found it:
http://www.concernedbrothers.com/Wor...rOnceAgain.pdf

Fired it off to Andrew Kelly ..
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Old 04-26-2014, 08:11 PM   #43
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This "holding to the head" for the one and only true "inspired" interpretation of scripture, to me, smacks of arrogance. Was Nee speaking in the abstract, only? If so why? Why make the statement unless you want to give the impression that your (Nee's) interpretation comes from holding to the head, and all other interpretations, if they differ, must therefore come from not holding to the head.

And consider:
There are over 33,000 Christian sects. All with various and sundry interpretations of scripture.

So does only one of them get their interpretation of scripture from holding to the head, and the rest, all 32,999, get their interpretation of scripture wrong because they are not holding to the head?

How do we know who is holding to the head? In Nee's paradigm only one holds to the head. And everyone else, all other Christians, most other Christians, are not under the head. That's a lot of born again Christians that are headless of Christ. Can you see the arrogance? And the absurdity? Even Paul saw thru a glass darkly. It's not like holding to the head is a light switch, that turns on Jesus to reveal all true interpretation of scripture. If we are truly humble, and honest, we will admit that our interpretation of scripture could be wrong.

And I think we all know who Nee thought to be the one and only that was holding to the head, and who held the only true interpretation of scripture.

And there's no doubt when considering Witness Lee.

Where in the scripture is such a doctrine taught?
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:02 PM   #44
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I was in the Church in Anaheim in the mid-seventies (74-76?). Initially, we met in a building on Ball Road. I cannot remember the years as well as well as I remember events. I joined the Church right after the Church in Anaheim was spun off of the Church in LA. During those years Ron Kangas, who I knew pretty well, John Ingalls and Max Rappaport were the functional leaders under Witness Lee. They were Lee's favorites. His son, who later became a subject of controversy, had no spiritual leadership role in the Church. I never heard Lee's son speak once during a Church meeting. Those were interesting years. Almost immediately after I left, Max Rappaport left which was a shock to everyone in the Church. Max was a fiery speaker, and Lee loved him. Then the great rupture when John Ingalls left. John had a great deal of prestige in the Church. He was #2 to Witness Lee and EVERYONE deferred to John as the one who stood in for Brother Lee. When he left the Church, it was a real shock. For me it was vindication, as Ingalls reasons for leaving were the same as mine, and nobody ever questioned John's integrity.

My last run-in with the Church was when a publisher contacted me asking me to defend him in a libel action that the Church had filed in Anaheim against the writer and the publisher of a book that accused the Local Church of being a cult, among other things. I declined that case as I had had enough of the Church in Anaheim or Living Stream Ministeries by then.

There were other characters: one individual who did the books for the Church and the tax returns for a number of elders was charged with securities fraud and spent three years in a federal penitentiary. I saw him on television recently on Jim Bakker's television show (actually nothing more than a two hour advertisement for the products that Bakker sells).
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:52 PM   #45
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I was in the Church in Anaheim in the mid-seventies (74-76?). Initially, we met in a building on Ball Road. I cannot remember the years as well as well as I remember events. I joined the Church right after the Church in Anaheim was spun off of the Church in LA. During those years Ron Kangas, who I knew pretty well, John Ingalls and Max Rappaport were the functional leaders under Witness Lee. They were Lee's favorites. His son, who later became a subject of controversy, had no spiritual leadership role in the Church. I never heard Lee's son speak once during a Church meeting. Those were interesting years.

Almost immediately after I left, Max Rappaport left which was a shock to everyone in the Church. Max was a fiery speaker, and Lee loved him. Then the great rupture when John Ingalls left. John had a great deal of prestige in the Church. He was #2 to Witness Lee and EVERYONE deferred to John as the one who stood in for Brother Lee. When he left the Church, it was a real shock. For me it was vindication, as Ingalls reasons for leaving were the same as mine, and nobody ever questioned John's integrity.
My parents moved our family to Anaheim January 1976 and were there until June 1979. Never knew Ron Kangas was in Anaheim during the mid-late 70's. I knew many families from the church in Anaheim and I was not familiar with the Kangas family. I never heard of Ron's name until the mid-90's. The leaders I was familiar with were Ingalls, Rappaport, Al Knoch, and Francis Ball.
As far as John's integrity, it was questioned after Witness Lee/LSM besmirched it. One could say this happened over twenty years ago, the current LSM leadership have yet to retract what was printed.
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Old 11-08-2014, 04:13 PM   #46
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My friend Jim Rohn~(Nutribio & Herbalife) besides asking us to learn the lesson of the Sower(sowing 'Word ofGod' seed) & never backing-up to dig in the hard ground or to chase any seed snatching birds. Also admits the 'Law of Averages' stresses the fact: not all of us will find ourselves here one year from now but we can take the lessons we learned here to the next place where we will be.
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Old 11-16-2015, 05:51 PM   #47
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I was in the LC from 1971-1980, aged 13-22, in five different localities, as my family migrated. What caused my separation in brief was the LC attitude towards other Christians. I have so many loving, Godly, non-LC Christians in my family, I couldn't stomach anymore the LC doctrine that non-LC was 'degraded Christianity' and that the LC was the 'New and Living Way'. It was too far from the truth. However once I left, it took me about 8 years before I could enter a 'denomination.' It was my biggest left over struggle with LC thinking. For a couple of those 8 years I'd only try going to a non-denominational church. Then I gave up all together. Then in '88 Jesus drew me back and I found a church home where I have been since!
Thanks to the Good Shepherd who looks for the lost sheep.
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Old 11-17-2015, 03:23 PM   #48
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Dear Julie

My heart turned over as I read your post from so long ago. My daughter, Linda, whom you knew had the exact same high school experience with pants. She often moaned that I'm the only girl who wears only dresses. Now I wish that were the worst part of our experience. Not so. The first five to eight years were so good. How could it turn out so bad? It seems so mean to admit we were taken in by a confidence scheme, but we were. Then if you admitted it you would be tarred and feathered.

The experience of Jacob before pharaoh, "the God who shepherded me all my life", we have to hold to such an experience. What is or was the end of Lee, Née, Darby, blendeds, etc, cannot be our worry. Our trust must be in the Lord which is so much easier to say than to experience.

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Old 11-17-2015, 08:52 PM   #49
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Born into church life 1990, left august 2014.

For those who shared what it was like...thank you. Maybe a seperate thread?
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:42 AM   #50
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Isn't this great bringing up these old threads!?

So here's my experience:

Church in Berkeley CA: 1974 - 76 (too young & dumb to know what was going on, but it seemed very good!)

Church in Cambridge Ohio: 1980 - 82 (a small, sweet group - very pure for the Lord with little corruption)

Church in Columbus Ohio: 1983 - 88 (bigger, organized - some "funny" things crept in; work thankfully relocated me in 1988)

Visited Scottsdale AZ Church repeatedly: 1993 - 94

Landed in Scottsdale Church: 1998 - present day (Thank God! My home for good or until He tells me otherwise . . .)

FYI: The Scottsdale church was originally affiliated with Bill Freeman after he disassociated from the LC movement, and remains completely autonomous today.

Last edited by Sons to Glory!; 05-30-2018 at 12:50 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:58 PM   #51
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Born into church life 1990, left august 2014.

For those who shared what it was like...thank you. Maybe a seperate thread?
FYI - I posted my Berkeley story from 1974 in a separate thread called "Berkeley 74-76 My Story" on the "Calling All Saints" board.
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Old 09-27-2018, 01:22 AM   #52
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:14 AM   #53
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The military mindset - no opinion - let to say Amen, left me braindead. I found it hard to go shopping after the FTT. I was not used to making my own choices. Some choices were devastating. Using Full Metal Jacket as an analogy, the LSM objective is to promote and protect WL's vision even if that turns you into killer, "a minister of death praying for war". Eventually you kill others. I 'killed' my ex-wife.
Interesting . . . I've heard the same thing from ex-inmates regarding not being able to make decisions because they were so dumbed-down in that respect. One brother, who spent several years in prison, could not go shopping at all for some time, because there were just too many choices to make. He became aware of this as he wound up wandering for hours at a Home Depot one day trying to buy a tool. His family was major worried as they thought he was lost or missing. Because there were several choices, he was absolutely incapacitated as to what to do.

These days I've become aware that there were a number of these extra-biblical sayings from the LC (such as "Get out of your mind!"). Some still get spoken around Scottsdale from time to time, and they are not totally without their place. ("Turn to your spirit" is another one.) But I'm much more cautious these days, about anything not specifically in the Word. I'll just leave it at that.
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Old 10-06-2018, 04:32 AM   #54
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Introduced to the LC in 2005. Went to many young people/college students trainings and blendings. I have started feeling a sense of discontenment and anxiety.
I feel my Christian life is going nowhere. I don't proclaim to be a great Christian, but all the practices done in the LC seems to be causing more 'deadness' and lack of progress in me. I chanced upon this blog a few days ago and I understood that most of the posts here echo my views and concerns. I still have not left meeting with the saints, but deep down I feel this is not right.
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:28 PM   #55
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Introduced to the LC in 2005. Went to many young people/college students trainings and blendings. I have started feeling a sense of discontenment and anxiety.
I feel my Christian life is going nowhere. I don't proclaim to be a great Christian, but all the practices done in the LC seems to be causing more 'deadness' and lack of progress in me. I chanced upon this blog a few days ago and I understood that most of the posts here echo my views and concerns. I still have not left meeting with the saints, but deep down I feel this is not right.
May you grow strong in the LORD and in the POWER of His Might to leave the LC. But may His Holy Spirit guide you in the ways of Almighty God.

Don't get discouraged in Christ. Jesus is and always will be your Savior, your Counselor and your Solid Rock. All other ground is sinking sand.

Blessings and showers of God's Love be upon you.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:10 PM   #56
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I was raised in the LC, baptized in 2007, left in 2017.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:09 PM   #57
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I was raised in the LC, baptized in 2007, left in 2017.
Wow Kevin,
What a blessing the LORD opened your eyes and gave you the strength to leave the LSM. May Jesus supply all of your needs showering you with His Love, Wisdom and Peace. May His Spirit direct your path in this world until we arrive.
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