The Danger of Witness Lee Books by Jeremiah Sargent

[TLFisher]

Here's an article on Witness Lee I found for consumption.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

Here's an article on Witness Lee I found for consumption.

I find it interesting how the blendeds/LSM/DCP always accuse people of taking Lee's statements out of context. As the author of that article says, Lee's words speak for themselves. It is very true. Lee's statements can be rationalized again and again by LC leadership, but at the end of the day, I can't accept that Lee meant anything other than what he said.

It seems most on that outside feel that way too with the exception of the CRI. HH and the CRI are greatly outnumbered by the 70+ signers of the open letter asking for certain of Lee's statements to be retracted.

Because the following statements by Witness Lee appear to contradict or compromise essential doctrines of the Christian faith, we respectfully call on the leadership of Living Stream Ministry and the "local churches" to disavow and cease to publish these and similar declarations...
http://www.open-letter.org/

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I find it interesting how the blendeds/LSM/DCP always accuse people of taking Lee's statements out of context.

There lies a double-standard. Talk about out of context, when Bill Mallon wrote an 8 page letter to Witness Lee, how much of that letter was used in Fermentation of the Present Rebellion?

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

There lies a double-standard. Talk about out of context, when Bill Mallon wrote an 8 page letter to Witness Lee, how much of that letter was used in Fermentation of the Present Rebellion?

It's okay for WL/BB's to take things out of context, but not the other way around (and that's not to say any of us do that). When I read something that WL said, I take it at face value. I critique all his ministry by the same standard.

Perhaps that is why I became so disillusioned with Lee. I tried to follow everything he said. Of course, Lee did often contradict himself, so how does one follow Lee absolutely? You really can't do that. That is the reason the BB's can say people take Lee out of context. At one point in time, he said something, another point in time, he said something else, and the BB's get to decide which of his statements is valid.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Freedom

At one point in time, he said something, another point in time, he said something else, and the BB's get to decide which of his statements is valid.

I guess if it could be viewed like the progressive "revelation" of the Koran, then we would know which contradictory statement was now the rule. Just like all the followers of that religion know what it actually says.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's okay for WL/BB's to take things out of context, but not the other way around (and that's not to say any of us do that). When I read something that WL said, I take it at face value. I critique all his ministry by the same standard.

Perhaps that is why I became so disillusioned with Lee. I tried to follow everything he said. Of course, Lee did often contradict himself, so how does one follow Lee absolutely? You really can't do that. That is the reason the BB's can say people take Lee out of context. At one point in time, he said something, another point in time, he said something else, and the BB's get to decide which of his statements is valid.

It's the discrepancies between LC teaching and LC practices that can cause one to be disillusioned with Lee's ministry. For example take his speaking from the LSM publication A Word of Love. There are many scriptural references with "You Shall Love Your Neighbor As Yourself" Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 5:43, 19:19, 22:39, Mark 12:31, Luke 10:27, Romans 13:9, Galatians 5:14, and James 2:8.
I believe Witness Lee uttered in this book to "love even the top rebel".
Well! Actions don't seem to measure up to words. Had the so-called rebels even been spoken to from 1990 until Witness Lee's death in 1997? I don't know. I do know if the blended brothers have the utterance to speak a word on Love, would they speak to the so-called top rebels?
I do know in the NW, the brothers could profess love for the so-called opposer Indiana, but they won't give him the time of day.

The blendeds get to determine which statements of WL is valid, because only they have capacity to discern what the feeling of the Body is.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Terry

It's the discrepancies between LC teaching and LC practices that can cause one to be disillusioned with Lee's ministry. For example take his speaking from the LSM publication A Word of Love. There are many scriptural references with "You Shall Love Your Neighbor As Yourself" Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 5:43, 19:19, 22:39, Mark 12:31, Luke 10:27, Romans 13:9, Galatians 5:14, and James 2:8.
I believe Witness Lee uttered in this book to "love even the top rebel".
Well! Actions don't seem to measure up to words. Had the so-called rebels even been spoken to from 1990 until Witness Lee's death in 1997? I don't know. I do know if the blended brothers have the utterance to speak a word on Love, would they speak to the so-called top rebels?
I do know in the NW, the brothers could profess love for the so-called opposer Indiana, but they won't give him the time of day.

The blendeds get to determine which statements of WL is valid, because only they have capacity to discern what the feeling of the Body is.

When I was with the Pentecostals it was "the anointing" and whoever had it...was listened to and followed. As you stated with the BB it is the "discernment" as to what the Body is ... who can deal with these kinds of superior, better than thou terms, attitudes and proclamations ... i.e. anointing, discernment etc.? So many brothers such as John Ingalls who we thought had the discernment back in the day because Lee gave his blessing...Lee eventually tossed out on his ears... So, I guess Ingalls didn't really have the discernment nor did his cohorts such as Bill Mallon or James Barber etc....wouldn't they be part of BBs today if they had passed the discernment test at the time of crisis? Somehow RK got through this but at what price? If Lee was alive today he would be tossing out some of these BBs. It's all an unfortunate joke and an exercise of power.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

It's the discrepancies between LC teaching and LC practices that can cause one to be disillusioned with Lee's ministry. For example take his speaking from the LSM publication A Word of Love. There are many scriptural references with "You Shall Love Your Neighbor As Yourself"

Chesterson had a great saying: “The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people.”

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by OBW

I guess if it could be viewed like the progressive "revelation" of the Koran, then we would know which contradictory statement was now the rule. Just like all the followers of that religion know what it actually says.

I guess I'm not "up-to-date" enough

That was the way Lee got around his contradictions, by saying that you have to be "up-to-date". In a way, that gave him the free pass to say whatever he wanted, without having to retract certain statements.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Dave

So many brothers such as John Ingalls who we thought had the discernment back in the day because Lee gave his blessing...Lee eventually tossed out on his ears... So, I guess Ingalls didn't really have the discernment nor did his cohorts such as Bill Mallon or James Barber etc....wouldn't they be part of BBs today if they had passed the discernment test at the time of crisis? Somehow RK got through this but at what price? If Lee was alive today he would be tossing out some of these BBs. It's all an unfortunate joke and an exercise of power.

I've wondered for many years, what if? What if James Barber was granted more years to live? Would he have been a brother like Ingalls and Mallon following their conscience or would he had taken the path of forsaking his conscience and become a blended brother? What factors led James to move his family from Los Angeles to Oklahoma City?
In historical context my understanding is when a conference was given in the 70's, you could generally expect Barber, Mallon, or Ingalls as the visiting speaking brother.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

I've wondered for many years, what if? What if James Barber was granted more years to live? Would he have been a brother like Ingalls and Mallon following their conscience or would he had taken the path of forsaking his conscience and become a blended brother? What factors led James to move his family from Los Angeles to Oklahoma City?
In historical context my understanding is when a conference was given in the 70's, you could generally expect Barber, Mallon, or Ingalls as the visiting speaking brother.

From all I know about James Barber, he was perhaps the most extreme of all the brothers in following and elevating Lee.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

From all I know about James Barber, he was perhaps the most extreme of all the brothers in following and elevating Lee.

But I think that there was some kind of falling-out, though it might have been with Max before the end of that era and not with Lee. The record by Barber's sons years ago was of one of the most ardent followers, probably playing off of a personal trait that might not have been so healthy. Others may have more insight, but it might be that he was actually too much rather than not enough. And that might be the reason that he was too much friction for Max.

Or something like that.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Terry

In historical context my understanding is when a conference was given in the 70's, you could generally expect Barber, Mallon, or Ingalls as the visiting speaking brother.

That was my experience in Detroit with RK as an elder and they had the blessing of Lee as they traveled around to various cities. Ultimately the BB was the result of a power struggle with Lee leading the way to oust anyone who questioned his authority and decisions regarding his children.