life after LC

[KSA]

After we left LC, my wife and I were for some time alone. Then some other saints in my city left LC and we established a group meeting. This group meeting still smelled much like LC - we knew nothing else. I was asking the Lord to give us some fellowship with those who had no LC background. It was the only way for us to become healthy. When I was about to leave LC, one brother told me that I wouldn't be satisfied in Christianity. "Recovery spoils us for Christianity", said he. And to a certain extent he was right. I attended several traditional churches, and never was quite home there. I was "spoiled" for sitting on the pew and listening sermons. It does not mean that I judge these churches. In fact, I have friendly relationship with different pastors and regularly attend prayer breakfast with different pastors. However, I felt that the Lord wants something else for me.

Gradually the Lord got us together with some believers who had no LC background, but who were interested in non-traditional church setting. We really did not know how to move on. We were (and still are) very different. We read a lot of materials on house/simple/organic churches. And though many ideas were appealing, we could not really find our own path. Eventually we decided to drop all our views and knowledge, and just prostrate before the Lord and seek Him personally.

In the beginning it was slow and difficult. But eventually the Lord started to take over these prayer meetings. We have been learning to recognize His presence and voice. Right now our prayer meeting is the most enjoyable meeting we have. I've never thought that I can enjoy prayer so much (prayer meeting in LC was with rare exceptions a nightmare). This prayer meeting began to attract other believers who were hungry for prayer and deeper walk with the Lord. Right now the Lord started to lead us in some practical service. It is so exciting to spend time in the Lord's presence and learn to hear directly from Him.

Another thing is that we do not try to attract people to our fellowship. When the Lord allows us to meet with other hungry believers, our main concern is that they would learn to hear from the Lord. So we have regular fellowship with believers from other churches without trying to pull them into our fellowship. Actually we do not see church as some kind of formal meetings anymore. We do church everywhere - in cafes, in gyms, in homes (and meal is a big part in our church life ).

This August our meeting will be one year old. I would say that during this last year I had the most exciting church life I ever had. So many good things happened - it seems like I left LC years ago. It was not always smooth and dandy. We all have difficult characters. At times I thought that it will just not work out. But the Lord knows how to work in our hearts. We are all becoming not just "church members" now, but real friends - sharing common life in Jesus.

God bless you all!

[aron]

Originally Posted by KSA

When I was about to leave LC, one brother told me that I wouldn't be satisfied in Christianity. "Recovery spoils us for Christianity", said he. And to a certain extent he was right. I attended several traditional churches, and never was quite home there. I was "spoiled" for sitting on the pew and listening sermons. It does not mean that I judge these churches. In fact, I have friendly relationship with different pastors and regularly attend prayer breakfast with different pastors. However, I felt that the Lord wants something else for me.

I am encouraged by your testimony. I agree that the 'recovery' experience in the local churches makes it hard for us to go "back" to Christianity. To go from functioning local churcher to passive, pew-bound sermon listener is not enjoyable at all. Thankfully, many christians are trying to engage their faith, and we who learned to exercise our capacity somewhat in the local church setting have some tools. We can pray, we can share on the word, we can sing, etc.

I would argue that your last sentence holds the key. The Lord wants something else for you. We did not go through our local church experience for nothing. God wants to use it. But God now wants something else. So if you ask yourself, now what do I do? The answer may be slow in developing. But, if you pray, "Lord, what do You want for me? What do you want for us here on the earth today? What is Your move here?", then you will be pleasantly surprised.

God is a wise businessman. He doesn't want to 'waste' your experience in the local churches. He wants to use it according to His purpose and plan. God wants to move on the earth today. At one time, according to accounts and in my observation, the Lord was moving strongly in the local churches. I believe they lost that blessing, as many christians have done through the centuries, by trying to control God's move. It became man's move disguised as God's move, and the blessing departed. So don't try to understand, and steer God's flow, as much as merely enjoy it and "amen" it moment by moment. And God will go on, above what we could ask or think.

I enjoyed the fellowship with you, brother. Peace be with you and with those who are there with you.

[aron]

Originally Posted by KSA

Another thing is that we do not try to attract people to our fellowship. When the Lord allows us to meet with other hungry believers, our main concern is that they would learn to hear from the Lord. So we have regular fellowship with believers from other churches without trying to pull them into our fellowship. Actually we do not see church as some kind of formal meetings anymore. We do church everywhere - in cafes, in gyms, in homes (and meal is a big part in our church life ).

I think this is very important, and is a big contrast to the LSM practice of hard-core recruitment, which a number of religious groups practice as well. This violates several key spiritual principles.

First, is to rely on the Lord. In the 'heavy recruiting' groups, you see the hands of man all over the process. God is there, probably, but as a secondary player. The works of man, the psychological strategies, the advertising campaigns, the marketing techniques, the pressure to 'produce' fruit, the incessant rallies to whip the troops into a 'selling' frenzy... I saw enough to realize what was going on.

Second, and more important to me, there are two kingdoms: the kingdom within and the kingdom without. When you impose your will on others, even if you dress it as "God's move", you violate both kingdoms. This is such an interesting principle to me that I started a thread on the subject on the "All over the board" board. There are some ideas there I am working on and want to share but I don't want to derail KSA's fellowship here. Peace and thanks for letting me share.

[Suannehill]

Thank you so much for what you shared!
As my husband and I seek to go on, we had to stop meeting with anyone who ever met with LC. No one seems to be willing to step out and "not be the LC"

We are doing many of the same things you talk about.

At this point in time, we meet on Sunday morning at 9am by our pond.
We have as many as 6, but sometimes it is just the two of us.
Of particular note is a large bass(18-24 inch) that floats next to us and stares at us while we meet. It must be the singing that attracts him!

We are seeking God's heart.

Sue

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Suannehill

At this point in time, we meet on Sunday morning at 9am by our pond. We have as many as 6, but sometimes it is just the two of us. Of particular note is a large bass(18-24 inch) that floats next to us and stares at us while we meet. It must be the singing that attracts him!

No worries...
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them"

Not sure if a bass counts or not, but sooner or later maybe he'll get hooked on your meetings.

Seriously, this sounds very sweet and I'm sure the Lord is with you, just like He promised!

[Testing123]

I'm encouraged by both KSA's and Suanne's experiences (with their spouses, of course).

Suanne, I'm wondering if you would echo the sentiment that, in a certain sense, the Local Church has ruined you to "Christianity." I'm just wondering if it is a matter of conscience that you have not sought out a more organized fellowship. Forgive me for being presumptuous.

More generally - I'm wondering what does it imply of the truth (or not, if you prefer) concerning the "local church" that many ex-members seek out alternative "assemblies," house churches, and cell groups instead of joining more mainstream churches (and yes, I realize that some do).

[Hope]

Dear Forum brothers and sisters,

Your posts are so precious. I can see the same seeking hearts that would have led you to the local churches in the first place. The Lord is certainly still working. I am so inspired and encouraged.

I went through a long period of discipline by the Lord, six years. Gradually the Lord has been building my family together with others. Our desire is to be a true expression of Christ and to trully love all of His precious children and to be a light on a hill to the world and our lost friends and neighbors.

Our testimony is along the lines of Psalms 66:12b. "We went through fire and through water yet Thou didst bring us out into a place of abundance."

It is a new day and our God is living, say hallelujah!!

In Christ Jesus,

Hope, Don Rutledge

[Suannehill]

Originally Posted by Testing123

I'm encouraged by both KSA's and Suanne's experiences (with their spouses, of course).

Suanne, I'm wondering if you would echo the sentiment that, in a certain sense, the Local Church has ruined you to "Christianity." I'm just wondering if it is a matter of conscience that you have not sought out a more organized fellowship. Forgive me for being presumptuous.

More generally - I'm wondering what does it imply of the truth (or not, if you prefer) concerning the "local church" that many ex-members seek out alternative "assemblies," house churches, and cell groups instead of joining more mainstream churches (and yes, I realize that some do).

Many are the reasons we now meet as we do. But to consider what you ask, I'm not certain. I was pretty much done with mainstream meetings when I began meeting with the LC. So for me, I was already ruined when I got there. My husband however, is a retired Baptist Pastor and has been very disappointed with places that we visit. He DID enjoy Columbus, but that is too far to drive on a regular basis. He met with the LC for 9 years and me, well, I stuck around about 33 years.
The amazing thing to me is that I tolerated so much so long with LSM. But...that's another story.

[KSA]

I agree that with Suannehill that we had been pretty much "ruined" for Christianity before we came LC. Otherwise, we would not have come into LC, in the first place. But I enjoy an occasional visit to a traditional church, esp. if they have a good worship team It is not a matter of which way is right. It is the matter of your calling before the Lord. Actually what we practice, can be practiced even within the frame of the big traditional church. To me the main thing is freedom in the Spirit. There should be a warm and loving atmosphere that encourages you to listen to the Lord and follow Him. "House churches" can be even more controlling than traditional churches. So may we see ourselves as the children of the King with a free access into His presence. We can just run into His arms

[djohnson]

Go wherever the Lord leads you! The options are endless.

I belong to a church with 1000s of members. Do I get much from the big Sunday morning services? Sometimes but not usually. But I know I am not the target audience in those meetings. It is designed to to teach the unchurched, new believers and unsaved. So it's not all about me. Others have to be taken into consideration. But I do attend home meetings weekly which include a more intense study of the bible, open fellowship, prayer, etc.

BTW, setting aside the obvious craziness of the local church system most members and former members I have met have an appreciation for: the bible, community life, hymns and church history. Your knowledge base is needed in the Body of Christ. If you find a way to humbly fit in I would not be surprised if soon many would emerge as respected teachers and leaders.

[Old Rasputin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSA
Another thing is that we do not try to attract people to our fellowship. When the Lord allows us to meet with other hungry believers, our main concern is that they would learn to hear from the Lord. So we have regular fellowship with believers from other churches without trying to pull them into our fellowship. Actually we do not see church as some kind of formal meetings anymore. We do church everywhere - in cafes, in gyms, in homes (and meal is a big part in our church life ).


I think this is very important, and is a big contrast to the LSM practice of hard-core recruitment, which a number of religious groups practice as well. This violates several key spiritual principles.

I agree with KSA that it's refreshing not trying to recruit other Christians. But Aron's statment regarding non-recruitment seems to butt up against the Great Commission. I know recruitment is an ugly word, but aren't Christians supposed to go out and persuade others to follow Christ as well?

I like Djohnsons description of the church he attends. The Sunday Services are apparently focused on non-Christians or unchurched Christians. I think church should be as much about outreach as it is about fellowship.

[TLFisher]

One message is clear to many meeting with the local churches and that's how to go on should they leave?
Some may have the peace to move on and meet with another assembly. Others don't know where to go or where to meet.
One matter is transparent. Whether a brother/sister should continue meeting in the local churches or move on, they will always have Christ as their everything and they will always have the Word of God.

Terry

[aron]

Originally Posted by Old Rasputin

I agree with KSA that it's refreshing not trying to recruit other Christians. But Aron's statment regarding non-recruitment seems to butt up against the Great Commission. I know recruitment is an ugly word, but aren't Christians supposed to go out and persuade others to follow Christ as well?

Old Rasputin, your point is well taken. I would merely say that there is to me a biiiiig difference between persuading others to follow Christ, as you put it so well, and trying to get others to join your group.

Christ is the still small voice within telling you of God's eternal love. This voice we can, and should, express to the world. And whatever assembly you meet with should hopefully also echo that voice in some way. But the local churchers made 'the group' as a stand-in for Christ. The group, with all its rules, customs, traditions, politics, and so forth. Countmeworthy made the same point when she related her enthusiasm for sharing Christ, but her reticence to get people to join her group. I think there is a distinction, and a necessary one.

[countmeworthy]

Hey Sueanne~

Me & a couple of friends have been reading the book of Acts on Friday evenings (before dark)at a Park nearby. We invite walkers to read along with us if they want. No takers so far but we're not in an open area where there are many walkers or joggers anyway.

It's usually only 3 of us but sometimes we get 5-6.

It's very, very hard for former LCrs to shed the old wine skin. The lingo..the 'stiffness', the mindset is hard to shake.

Ya know..I've been out for 28 yrs now. After leaving, I strolled through the wilderness. In 2004, I gave myself back to the Lord in a very consecrated, forever way. At first, I was reluctant to connect with Christians.

Imagine that! After 20 plus years, I still had the 'poor-poor Christianity' mentality.

Well, a childhood (best friend) came to stay with me during my time of severe physical affliction.

She was saved but when we would pray, she would pray 'different' than I did. She'd start her prayers with 'Lord Father' or 'Father God'. She would also pray in tongues & raise her arms & hands into the Lord.

I'd pound my fist.

Skipping details...she & I parted company. I didn't see her for 3 1/2 yrs.

I decided to take the plunge and start going 'to church'. I ended up in a 'Word-Faith' church. Lots of positive confession of the Word. The praise/worship music was 'different'. Sometimes people jumped while praising the Lord in song.

I purposed myself not to be judgmental and critical.

The Lord had me in this fellowship group for 2 plus years.

A few months ago my friend & I re-connected with her brother's passing.

She came to visit/stay with me this past week. (btw, what an AWESOME week that was! The Glory of the LORD permeated us & my house. His Presence was soo incredibly strong.)

....we talked about the time we were hanging out when I gave myself back to the Lord. Mind you, I still had a lot of LC baggage on me at that time.

She remarked how different I was 3 1/2 yrs ago. I explained how in the last 3 1/2 yrs I have immersed myself in the Word, studying it anew, PRAYING,reading spiritual books, playing Praise/Worship music, fellowshipping with people..speaking the WORD POSITIVELY over myself and everyone around me.

I kid you not.....I have never felt the Peace of God, the Glory of God on me/us in my home like I did this week for the 7 days she was here.

I'm really not the same person I was last year.

I want MORE of GOD...and less of Me!!!!! I LOVE YOU LORD JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Suannehill

... we had to stop meeting with anyone who ever met with LC. No one seems to be willing to step out and "not be the LC"

We are doing many of the same things you talk about.

At this point in time, we meet on Sunday morning at 9am by our pond.
We have as many as 6, but sometimes it is just the two of us.
Of particular note is a large bass(18-24 inch) that floats next to us and stares at us while we meet. It must be the singing that attracts him!

We are seeking God's heart.

Sue

[countmeworthy]

Hopefully, you all just read my life after the LC...and how my friend & I re-connected.

Well...I thought I'd share something about me & my friend and GOD & how He ordained this friendship.

This friend I wrote about has been on & off my best friend since we were in the first grade! (We're 53 yrs young).

But that's not a biggie........

Here's our story:

We were friends in grade school & high school. We partied, got drunk, got stoned, cussed, laughed, argued, parted ways, reconnected (more than once.)

We were born & raised in San Antonio Tx

In 1975, I went to visit her & her now ex-husband & baby in San Diego. He was stationed there at the Marine Corps base.

We partied a lot.

I then got a job at the base & little did I know my life was about to change.

In my department, were 2-3 LCrs my age working there. (There were about 8 or 9 LC saints working at the base in other departments.)

We were all about the same age..in our early 20s..& so I got saved.
NO REGRETS!!!

I was supposed to have gone to a 'love feast' but chickened out at the last moment. In fact, I had told Norma that when the church people called to arrange picking me up for the meeting, to tell them I was not home.

Well.. I ticked her off & when the phone rang, she answered and gave it to me. Anyway...I backed out from going that night.

But come Monday morning, I had to face the music at work. as I stood my LC friends up.

That morning...... I ended up praying with my LC brother in Christ & WAM.....I GOT SAVED!!! I mean I reallllllllly, reallllllllly GOT SAVED!!

My salvation was soo strong, everyone at work knew immediately something had happened to me!

That evening, I went to a 'love bombing' dinner. All kidding aside, I actually had a wonderful time getting to know people who were on fire for the Lord. I thank GOD they took me under their wings.

That evening, I returned to my friend's house where I was staying.

Dear LORD!!!! EVERYBODY and then some was there at a pot smoking 'party' when I got home.

Everyone saw the change in me. One person asked me what was making me 'GLOW' like that.

Norma was also watching me...saw the change in me and said 'DARN...there goes my partying buddy.'

That week, I moved out & into the LC church life I went into...moving in with some sisters & a family.

Norma & I parted ways...she eventually returned to SA while I remained in San Diego..then to Tempe then to Maryland for 17 yrs.

Somehow, we re-connected about 10 plus years ago.

She had gotten saved....but was 'back slidden'...so was I, one might say.

In 2004 I gave myself back to the LORD unconditionally after being extremely ill for 4 yrs......so sick I was, I ended up 'retiring' on disabilty from my job.

My friend came to help me out about 3 months after I had given myself back unconditionally to the Lord. She was instrumental in bringing me back to my roots.

So God used her to get me out of SA so I could get saved and used her again 30 yrs later to bring me back to my hometown.

BUTTTTTTTT....Satan decided to pit us against each other on our way back to SA.

I decided to cut myself off from our friendship for good this time. I was committed to give my all to the Lord & I was tired of the roller coaster ride I was on.....with her.

So for 3 1/2 yrs I had nothing to do with her (or her family, -her parents- her kids-her siblings.)

It took a tragedy to reunite us...the suicidal death of her youngest brother, who took me around looking for houses when I moved here. (Once I bought my house, I cut myself off completely.)

The last 3 1/2 yrs I have immersed myself in the Word & prayer & study. I am blessed to live alone with my pets & not have the distractions of family. BUT I have also suffered something AWFUL due to my illness--Rheumatoid Arthritis--.

So it was a rough ride for me physically for many years..since 2001.

Yet my Love for the Lord, His Love for me & my love for His Word has really been 'heavenly'. I connected with some awesome Christians...reconnected with childhood friends too.

Well...this past week, my friend came to stay with me for several days.

We had an AWESOME time...praying, fellowshipping, talking..remenesinne.

One of the things I told her was how we prayed & testified in the LC. I gave her a demonstration. She told me that is how I was praying when she was in Maryland taking care of me.

She saw how free I was now... She noticed so many things about me..how different I am now from how I was 4 yrs ago in Maryland.

Truly GOD arranged for us to re-connect...and this time it's for good.

WHO would have thought...2 childhood friends who were truly worldly, rebellious best friends would end up being best friends in Christ Jesus.

ONLY GOD could arrange something like that... Only God.

We have such an AWESOME GOD, precious saints!! What is impossible with us is MORE than possible with El SHADDAI!!!!

Thanks for reading my long winded post.

Carol

[Guest1]

awesome KSA.. everything you posted was so good to hear..

God's Blessings...
Kat..

[cityonahill]

I second Djohnson's experience...Trying to understand that God doesn't need us as much as we really need him is a great step in reaching everyone for Jesus Christ.

I attend two sunday services (8:30-10:30) and serve in two others every sunday(5 pm-7 pm) praying and believing that newcomers will recieve salvation. It's a powerful time of prayer and praise as well as biblical teaching and encouragement. In a crowd of over 10,000, there is just not an appropriate amount of time for everyone to stand and speak.(although it is very encouraging to during prayer and worship when everyone lifts their voices...) However, on tuesdays, I'm involved in a small home-based dinner/fellowship/prayer group that is like family to me and my wife.
On Wednesday we have worship and creative arts night where we have a time of singing and worship, then we gather together in teams to brainstorm creative ideas to reach our community for Christ. Thursday night I'm involved in a "street team" which is where we go visit people in our local community in need and serve them with the love of Christ. We don't "preach" to them or "recruit" them. Rather, we serve them.(mow the lawn, clean the dishes, pull up weeds...) and tell them the gospel when the spirit leads...
Every other Friday I'm rostered to run sound at a "youth group" or "young people's" meeting. Other than that, there are various conferences and church planting missions trips my wife and I are involved in.
My purpose for this lengthy description is simply to show that a particular church structure does not decide who is a "passive" Christian. That is up to the individual Christian to decide for themself. There are passive Christians in the LC and in denominations. There are thousands of "passive" Christians at our meetings every week. I simply choose not to be one! The non-LC church is not as black and white as many in the LC paint it out to be...

While our motivation behind conversations we have should be of love and not of a "recruiter," I still think there is the danger of developing an "us four no more" philosophy. Using different means of evangelism and outreach with a motive of the love of Christ is not a "gimmick." Church life should be practiced beyond meetings and gatherings with a healthy balance of outreach, evangelism, fellowship, worship, and discipleship (or shepherding if your LC)
remember that it's not the "proper" practice that brings joy, but in the very "presence of God is fullness of joy!..."(PS. 16:11)

[KSA]

It's been almost a year since I began this thread. I would like to share briefly with you about what happened with us during this time. I think the main thing that really turned my Christian life upside down since my departure from LSM is the revelation of the Father's heart. I found out that this one thing is so much lacking among God's children. I began to see the glimpses of this revelation when I was still in LC. At that time I was considering to leave, but I was afraid - what if by doing this I rebel against God's deputy authority? That's when the Lord reminded me a verse, "Perfect love casts out fear" (1 John 4:18). That's when I realized that when others try to hold me by fear, it is not of the Lord. He attracts us by love, not fear.

The things I described in my first post in this thread began to happen as the result of the further revelation of the Father's love. That's when I realized that the Lord is not interested in any kind of "movement", "big thing" or "organization". He is interested in His family. And real family is not an edifice or "family business", it is something based on personal relationship. Our Daddy cares for each one of His kids, and He wants us to minister this love to others.

Here are some stories that I hope will be of some help to you:

1. In May 2008 Brother Albert Zehr came to our city with a team from Vancouver. We gathered people from different congregations in our city. The main focus of the conference was on generational reconciliation. Honestly in the beginning I was not sure that it is a topic that people would like. But when I saw how the Holy Spirit was moving in the meetings, how people were weeping and reconciling with each other, it really changed something within me. I began to realize that the Lord wants from us not "the high picks of the divine truth", but the manifestation of His love.

2. In one of our meetings I was led of the Lord to repent to a sister on the behalf of all men who abused her in the past. After the meeting she told me that she had no clue what I was doing. But the very next she experienced very severe demonic attacks. As a result we were able to minister deliverance to her, and she was freed from some nasty spirits.

3. We have a sister who was very emotionally unavailable (I wonder if it's a good term?) when she came to us. My wife share with her her own experienced of how the Lord liberated her. That sister became very interested and let us pray for her. When we were praying for her, the Holy Spirit fell on her and within a week you could not recognize her. She became so open and warm, and now she is becoming a very effective witness for the Lord.

4. Recently I attended the conference conducted by a fraction of the Russian Orthodox church who are hungry for the things of the Spirit. They invited a couple from England to be speakers. The subject was "The Loving heart of the Father". It was a youth conference, and I was amazed how wounded the young people are nowadays. The couple from England offered a fatherly and motherly hug to those who wanted. What surprised me was that young people would line up and stand patiently in the queue to get this hug - you could hardly hold tears.

We can argue a lot, but what people really need is the manifestation of the Father's love. I was also surprised to see how difficult it is for many people to receive this love. When you receive love, you make yourself vulnerable, and many people were betrayed so many times that they are afraid to open their hearts. Only the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit can win their trust again.

And the last, but not the least at all - the Lord has answered our prayers. We are expecting a baby in June. We tried to have a baby for several years - to no avail and doctors did not help. When I returned from one "weird" conference I prayed for my wife and she later said that the Lord told her that she was now healed and can have babies. Two months later she was pregnant.

Our Lord is so great, and His love surpasses understanding, and He is by no means limited by a little group with big claims.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by KSA

That's when I realized that when others try to hold me by fear, it is not of the Lord. He attracts us by love, not fear.

Our Lord is so great, and His love surpasses understanding, and He is by no means limited by a little group with big claims.

Thanks for sharing KSA and it's so very good to hear from you bro!!

This was a huge revelation and comfort for me when exiting the Local Church. Our God is a BIG God and He has a BIG HEART!

Congrats to you and your wife!!!



-

[Former LC member]

Thank you for your sharing KSA. You seem to be experiencing such a practical Christian life. This is so different to the LC way of dwelling in great and high truths. Congratulations also on your great expectation

[kisstheson]

How wonderful to hear from dear brother KSA and to hear from dear sister Joanna Tysoe!

Like the both of you, my dear sister/wife and I are rather recent refugees from the LC. Prayers where we humble ourselves before the Lord and ask Him to lead us to other dear believers for fellowship always seem to be answered. It seems that all of us have a real experience of "the valley of the shadow of death" when we first leave the LC. We grope about in the darkness and begin to wonder if we should return.

But then, our dear Lord does something so sweet and so unexpected! In time He opens our eyes so that we finally see all the other precious believers all around us. These dear ones have always been there, but we could not recognize them while we esteemed ourselves too highly.