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Old 02-23-2018, 11:20 AM   #1
Steel
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Default Speaking For And Forth The Lord

Do we... Or don't we?

Lots and lots and lots of opportunity to speak on the internet, right... There are forums with topics... topics with threads of comments... Comments that have their own sub-threads... Then there are blogs... Comments to articles... It just seems to go on and on.

But it's all just a technological type of what we have in our daily organic living... Where we have family to speak to... Neighbors... Friends... Strangers... Maybe even pets... You get the picture.

So here we are... Born again, eternally saved believers in Christ Jesus... Confronted daily with various types of environments in and through which we have the opportunity to speak.

And what do we do... Or more specifically... What do we speak?

This will be the crux of my blogging on this board (which hopefully I will be allowed to do)... "What do we speak?"

And in blogging on this matter, I will at times speak on matters that have been brought up in the general forum threads... And yes, I read the rules and understand that blogs are not to be used to respond to the content on these threads... So no, I will not be responding to the content on these threads... In the sense of a direct response to a specific comment. But I will speak on matters that I see brought up in these threads, as this website is focused on discussions regarding the local church movement and the teaching of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee... And therefore... In keeping with the focus of this website... This is an aspect of what I will do... Meaning... I'll speak on discussions regarding the local church movement and the teaching of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee.

With one crucial caveat... I'll do so from the POV of "Speaking For And Forth The Lord."

Now, here's hoping that the owner and moderator of this website, who goes by the name, UntoHim (maybe one day I'll come to know my brother's real name.. Unless UntoHim is his real name) will be gracious enough to allow me to start and continue this blog.

We shall see.
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Old 02-24-2018, 02:02 AM   #2
Steel
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Default Re: Speaking For And Forth The Lord

Well, I'm back on the "...moderated member..." list. It seems that on this website those who are belligerent in their speaking against all things/people meeting with a local church group, and enjoying LSM publications/conferences/trainings are allowed to speak dishonestly in their comments, but when I point out this dishonesty, the censor hammer comes out and many of my comments are deleted (or simply not posted as a result of "moderation").

To be honest, given my experience on the forums of this website to date, I'll be surprised if this comment is allowed to be posted.

But in the hope it does, I'll press on...

Now you may wonder what the above has to do with speaking for and forth the Lord the title of this blog, and therefore that which will underpin my blog posts well it seems to me a but hypocritical given the intention of this website, which is to facilitate criticism of Witness Lee, including all things associated with Witness Lee... Which includes just simple members of the body of Christ who meet with what's referred to as the Local Church... Referred to by a poster on this board as although perhaps born again, are "...brain dead...".

Why hypocritical... Because one of the major criticisms of Witness Lee and all associated with him/his ministry (even in the simplest of ways) is that of the strict control those expressing the criticism like to claim is imposed by the long dead Witness Lee, Living Stream Ministry, and elders of local churches... On the congregations that meet as the local church, for the purpose of upholding the agenda of Witness Lee, LSM, and the elders.

And yet, here we have this being carried out here on this website, by one claiming to be against it.

And yes, I know... The thinking is that it's justifiable... But isn't this the thinking in both cases.

Sure it is. We humans can find "...justice..." in all that we do, can't we... Even 'ol Adam thought to justify himself by claiming that the woman God gave him was the cause of his acting contrary to God's speaking.

But God didn't buy it, did He. Nope... And neither should we.

Galatians 5:9... "A little leaven leavens the whole lump."

Which is why scripture also tell us...

Matthew 5:7... "Hypocrite, first remove the beam from your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye."

See how easy scripture, when guided by the Spirit, makes it to speak for and forth the Lord.

Amen.
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Old 02-24-2018, 09:11 AM   #3
UntoHim
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Default Re: Speaking For And Forth The Lord

To close your blog to comments hit the "Thread Tools" at the top right. "Close Thread" is the default setting, so you can simply hit the "Perform Action" button. It can be reopened in the same manner.
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Old 02-24-2018, 01:38 PM   #4
Steel
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Default Re: Speaking For And Forth The Lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
To close your blog to comments hit the "Thread Tools" at the top right. "Close Thread" is the default setting, so you can simply hit the "Perform Action" button. It can be reopened in the same manner.
Thak you my brother in Christ... I appreciate your help... I believe the problem stemmed from my being a moderated members, as before, when I clicked on the "Close Thread" button I did not get all the additional info I'm getting now.
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Old 02-28-2018, 01:39 PM   #5
Steel
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Default Re: Speaking For And Forth The Lord

So on my Facebook page I found a brother's post that contained the following quote from Witness Lee...

"I want to impress you with the fact that as long as we are in the Lord’s recovery and as long as we have the resurrection of Christ, regardless of the situation among us or the conspiracy in the environment against us, God’s eternal purpose will eventually be fulfilled. There will be a gathering of God’s scattered people for God’s building. All the negative things—the death and the opposition—will be the servants of God’s eternal purpose. They will further the fulfillment, the accomplishment, of God’s purpose. We are on the mountaintop, and the flood waters are under our feet. Do not be troubled. — (Witness Lee, Life Study of John, Living Stream Ministry, Anaheim, California, USA, MSG (24), P. 1) www.ministrybooks.org"

And this is my response to it...

When I read the title of this thread — "What is the boundary of the Local Church" — my thought was that it would be a thread discussing the idea of one church per city as presented in Living Stream Ministry oublications... And that is the context my following speaking will be related to.

The first time I heard about the "one church per city" thought was just after I started meeting with the loacl church in Miami... And my first response to it was "Wonderful, this is how it should be."

And this wasn't because I had come to hold to anything Witness Lee or Watchman Nee or LSM... It was because I had just spent three years working through a project called OneAmen, which had as the thought behind it, a platform on and through which all believers in Christ Jesus could come together outside of their denominations/speciifc "churches" they were associated with.

"WWJD" . . . Remember that acronym that was popular back in the '90s... What would Jesus do? . . . Well... I asked the question regarding this scripture... John 17:21... "That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me." . . . And I asked it because from my POV there was nothing "...one..." about the church I was seeing around me.

The answer I got was this... 2nd Corinthians 1:20... "For as many promises of God as there are, in Him is the Yes; therefore also through Him is the Amen to God, for glory through us to God."

It's all about the Son... All about Christ Jesus... And He is just One... It's not about doctrines, or ministries, or denominations, or anything else... It's only about the Lord Jesus... And if the body is to be one body... Then the members of the body need to realize this reality... That is is all about, and only about, Jesus.

There is only... one... Amen... To God's calling/desire... And anything outside of this one Amen is not according to God's calling/desire.

Now when I came to see this truth regarding the one body of Christ, I had no idea about the "...ground of the church..." or "...one church per city..." . . . I just knew that what I was seeing wasn't aligning with what I had come to know about the matter after considering scripture before the Lord.

And then the Lord removed my wife and myself from meeting with believers in what I'd later come to see as Christianity... And brought us to the local church meeting in Miami.

And no... I didn't for a moment think I'd found the oneness of God's body being expressed on this earth... But what I realized is that I the Lord had revealed another part of the matter of the oneness of the body that I had been seeking Him on.

Before you can truly enter into something you need to first see it... There is just no way to truly enter into something without first seeing it... And what I came to see as I met with the local church, and read the ministry of LSM, help me see a little more about the matter of the oneness of the body of Christ... SOmething that the ministry publications referred to as "...the ground of the church..." and the thought of "...one church per city...".

What is "wrong" with the thought of "...one church per city..."?

Isn't that what the reality of being in Christ actually is, for those of us who live in a city?

In the Lord's eyes... How many churches are there in a city?

One, right... And if so... How many churches should we see, as believers in Him, when we look at a city?

Again... Just one.

Not two... Not three... Not four... Only one.

"...I will build My church..."

And yet... Here we are... Three "churches" right here on my quarter mile of street where I live... And one more half a mile away... And four more maybe one mile away... Eight "churches" within one mile of where I live... And none having anything to do with the others.

Lord Jesus... Help us. . . . Is this what you want Lord?

No... It isn't. . . . He certainly allows it... But it's not what He wants... Not according to scripture... "That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me."

"...that the world may believe that You have sent Me."

It doesn't say "...that believers may believe that You sent Me." . . . It says "...the world..." . . . But the world looks at Christianity and doesn't see this oneness... Every day I participate on online forums in which some claimed atheist states that there is so much division between believers... And they are correct, there is.

WHy do we believers allow this to take place? . . . Why don't we care for the oness of the Lord in His church?

I have come to see that this is where the rubber hits the road regarding the matters of "...the ground of the church..." and "...one church per city..."... In how much we care for the oneness of the Lord in His church.

You want to know what the "...boundary of the local church..." is, saints... It's the measure of grace that God has given you to care for the oneness of the body of Christ... And the capacity you have through this measure of grace God has given you to care for the oneness of the body of Christ... And finally... It is the environment into which the measure of God's grace has brought you so that you can express this care for the oneness of the body of Christ in a living/practical way.

In new testament the word translated as "city" defines a particular geographic area related to a particular set of inhabitants within that geographic area. And it's somewhat similar in the old testament also.

It's not rocket science... How can you care for oneness of the body of Christ in relation to those who live a hundred miles from you... Or even fifty miles from you... On a monthly basis maybe... But weekly... Daily... Hourly... Not so much.

This is what I clearly see in scripture as a pattern for us to follow... The oneness of the Lord's church is seen locally, then regionally, then universally... In and through the caring of the saints for this oneness... First locally, then regionally, then universally.

And why a "...city..." for the local boundary of this caring? . . . It's what the apostles set as a pattern for us... And our fellowship is with the apostles... Whose fellowship is with the Father and the Son (1 John 1:3).
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Old 03-02-2018, 12:21 PM   #6
Steel
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Default Re: Speaking For And Forth The Lord

Okay... Forgive me... The post before this one did not have the correct response to the quote from Witness Lee... It had my speaking that was related to the matter of "What is the boundary of the Local Church"...

Sorry for that error... Which may have caused any reader to be somewhat confused, as the quotation and my response we not related.

Well... Let's get it all back in order... Here's Witness Lee's quoted speaking... With my response to it, below...

So on my Facebook page I found a brother's post that contained the following quote from Witness Lee...

"I want to impress you with the fact that as long as we are in the Lord’s recovery and as long as we have the resurrection of Christ, regardless of the situation among us or the conspiracy in the environment against us, God’s eternal purpose will eventually be fulfilled. There will be a gathering of God’s scattered people for God’s building. All the negative things—the death and the opposition—will be the servants of God’s eternal purpose. They will further the fulfillment, the accomplishment, of God’s purpose. We are on the mountaintop, and the flood waters are under our feet. Do not be troubled. — (Witness Lee, Life Study of John, Living Stream Ministry, Anaheim, California, USA, MSG (24), P. 1) www.ministrybooks.org"

And this is my response to it...

I'm thinking scripture says it more like this...

"All born again believers are in the resurrected Christ... Are one with Him in His resurrection life... And He one with us in His resurrection life... And He is recovering the fully realization of this reality in His people, regardless of His adversary's attempts to hinder and stop Him doing so... God's eternal purpose has been fulfilled in Christ Jesus... And Christ Jesus is building the full realization of this "finished" reality into His people... So that, in time, God will have His eternal desire fully expressed in and through all whom He has called and chosen... No matter how the storm raged around Peter, his only need was to keep his eyes on Jesus... He who is seated on the throne of God, high above all things... Because, as we keep our eyes on Jesus... We realize that we are seated with Him."

The Lord's recovery is working out of the economy of God that brings each and every believer into the full realization of who God is and what He has accomplished in us, and in others, in and through His beloved Son, Christ Jesus.

Matthew 24:26... "Therefore if they say to you, Behold, He is in the wilderness, do not go forth; Behold, He is in the inner rooms, do not believe it."

Rather... Believe this...

1 Corinthians 1:3-8... "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ... I thank my God always concerning you based upon the grace of God which was given to you in Christ Jesus,... That in everything you were enriched in Him, in all utterance and all knowledge,... Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,... So that you do not lack in any gift, eagerly awaiting the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,... Who will also confirm you until the end unreprovable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Why believe what the above scripture verses tell us....

Because...

1 Corinthians 1:9... "God is faithful, through whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord."

Specifically note this... "...you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord."

And this is how an apostle, one who was with the Lord, puts it...

1 John 1:3... "That which we have seen and heard we report also to you that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ."

The born again believer's fellowship should be with the apostles... This is how the footnotes in the Recovery bible puts it...

"...The Greek word [translated as "fellowship" in the above scripture verse] means joint participation, common participation.

Fellowship is the issue of the eternal life and is actually the flow of the eternal life within all the believers, who have received and possess the divine life.

It is illustrated by the flow of the water of life in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 22:1).

All genuine believers are in this fellowship (Acts 2:42).

It is carried on by the Spirit in our regenerated spirit. Hence, it is called "the fellowship of the Holy Spirit" (2 Cor. 13:14) and "fellowship of [our] spirit" (Phil. 2:1).

It is in this fellowship of the eternal life that we, the believers, participate in all that the Father and the Son are and have done for us; that is, we enjoy the love of the Father and the grace of the Son by virtue of the fellowship of the Spirit (2 Cor. 13:14).

Such a fellowship was first the apostles' portion in their enjoyment of the Father and the Son through the Spirit. Hence, in Acts 2:42 it is called "the fellowship of the apostles," and in this verse "our [the apostles'] fellowship," a fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

It is a divine mystery. This mysterious fellowship of the eternal life should be considered the subject of this Epistle.

Fellowship here indicates a putting away of private interests and a joining with others for a certain common purpose. Hence, to have fellowship with the apostles, to be in the fellowship of the apostles, and to have fellowship with the Triune God in the apostles' fellowship is to put aside our private interests and join with the apostles and the Triune God for the carrying out of God's purpose.

This purpose, according to John's subsequent writings, is twofold: (1) that the believers grow in the divine life by abiding in the Triune God (2:12-27) and, based on the divine birth, live a life of the divine righteousness and the divine love (2:28--5:3) to overcome the world, death, sin, the devil, and idols (5:4-21); and (2) that the local churches be built up as the lampstands for the testimony of Jesus (Rev. 1--3) and consummate in the New Jerusalem as the full expression of God for eternity (Rev. 21--22).

Our participation in the apostles' enjoyment of the Triune God is our joining with them and with the Triune God for His divine purpose, which is common to God, the apostles, and all the believers..."

Saints... Here above is the ministry of Witness Lee telling us that "...Fellowship is the issue of the eternal life and is actually the flow of the eternal life within all the believers, who have received and possess the divine life..."

That's... "...within all the believers, who have received and possess the divine life..."

And further... "...Our participation in the apostles' enjoyment of the Triune God is our joining with them and with the Triune God for His divine purpose, which is common to God, the apostles, and all the believers..."

Note... "...all believers...".

In both Paul's speaking in 1 Corinthians 1:9, and John's speaking in 1 John 1:3... We see their use of the word "...you..."... Which means all who read and believe what is written by them.

1 Corinthians 1:9... "...you were called into the fellowship..."

1 John 1:3... "... that you also may have fellowship..."

"...you..." = All who have believed into Christ Jesus.

All born again believers "...were called into the fellowship...".

And all born again believers "...may have fellowship...".

This is what scripture tells us… And what the the ministry of Witness Lee echoes, as referenced in the above quoted footnotes.

And as I said above...

The Lord's recovery is working out of the economy of God that brings each and every believer into the full realization of who God is and what He has accomplished in us, and in others, in and through His beloved Son, Christ Jesus.

The Lord's recovery is about/for all born again believers being brought into the full realization of what has already been accomplished in and through Christ Jesus... Who is in all born again believers... And in this, has made himself one with all born again believers, and all born again believers one with Him.

And "...what has already been accomplished in and through Christ Jesus..."... This being "...Christ Jesus being in all born again believers... And in this, has made himself one with all born again believers, and all born again believers one with Him..."... Is the reality of the fellowship of the apostles... And their "...fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ."

Again... The concluding paragraph from the above referenced footnoes says...

"...Our participation in the apostles' enjoyment of the Triune God is our joining with them and with the Triune God for His divine purpose, which is common to God, the apostles, and all the believers..."

In this speaking is no dividing of the one body of Christ into those who are in the Lord's recovery, and those who are not... Because scripture tells us the the Lord's recovery — which is simply the work of God... Who is "...faithful..." and "...through whom..." we were called... In bringing all who are His "..."...into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord."

Yet...

There are those born again believers who have seen this... And those who have not yet seen it.

And this being the case... Now what?

To those who have seen it...

Mark 16:15... "And He said to them, Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to all the creation."

Colossians 1:23... "If indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast and not being moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, of which I Paul became a minister."

Matthew 10:8... "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you have received; freely give."

Revelation 21:6... "And He said to me, They have come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts from the spring of the water of life freely."

Revelation 22:17... "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let him who hears say, Come! And let him who is thirsty come; let him who wills take the water of life freely."

John 7:38... "He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water."
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:17 PM   #7
Steel
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Default Re: Speaking For And Forth The Lord

Good to be back... Hope all are well and ready to be a praise to the Lord in all our fellowship here on this board.

And just so that you know... I forgive you your false accusation against me, UntoHim, regarding my threatening you... As I am fully convinced that I did no such thing.

But, "Amen"... The Lord knows.

Now we move forward in the Lord... Hallelujah!!!
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Old 04-01-2018, 02:51 PM   #8
UntoHim
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Default Re: Speaking For And Forth The Lord

Mr. Steel, we will not move forward for very long if you continue to say you were falsely accused by me or anyone else on this forum.

You're on a tight leach my man. Turn it down a notch or two and you'll be fine. Also try to keep yourself to a few posts a day. Make everyone count. Avoid one liners if at all possible. And most of all, remember that He is Risen, He is Risen Indeed!

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Old 04-03-2018, 09:49 AM   #9
Steel
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Default Re: Speaking For And Forth The Lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
Mr. Steel, we will not move forward for very long if you continue to say you were falsely accused by me or anyone else on this forum.-
But I believe I was, UntoHim... Am I not allowed to speak what I believe... Just as others here are?

In the last post you made regarding me, before you banned me for a month, you said that I "...threatened..." you... But I most certainly don't believe that I did.

And this is, in my thinking, a very serious accusation on your part... Meaning, for you to say that I threatened you.

But perhaps I misunderstood what you meant when you said that I "...threatened..." you... Which is why I brought it up here.

Please... Explain to me what you meant so that I, and anyone else who read what you wrote regarding me "...threatening..." you, can be clear regarding what you meant.

My brother... Scripture exhorts us to work things out with one another... And this is what I am seeking to do with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
You're on a tight leach my man.-
I am always on a "...tight leach..." my brother... I am in the Lord... I am His slave... And the Lord is a stern Master.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
Turn it down a notch or two and you'll be fine. Also try to keep yourself to a few posts a day. Make everyone count. Avoid one liners if at all possible. And most of all, remember that He is Risen, He is Risen Indeed![/COLOR]-
I'll do my best... As I always try to do.

And my hope is that you will exercise the patience of the Christ you have, in your dealings with me... As scripture exhorts us all to do with one another.

In His love my brother... Always in His love do I say these things to you.
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