Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > To God Be The Glory!

To God Be The Glory! A Place to Praise, Honor and Glorify our God! Words of Praise and Encouragement. Poems, Hymns, Prayers, Words of Wisdom, Knowledge and Prophetic Speaking

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-13-2012, 07:23 AM   #1
UntoHim
Grateful Servant
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,486
Default Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=FMBE...ign=01/13/2012
__________________
Now Unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24)
UntoHim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 08:04 AM   #2
ToGodAlone
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

This has been trending all over the place lately. Fantastic video imo.
ToGodAlone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 08:26 AM   #3
UntoHim
Grateful Servant
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,486
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

"Republican doesn't automatically mean Christian"??? What! Stock the fire, let's burn this kid at the stake!

My favorite lines:

The problem with religion is it never gets to the core,
it's just behavior modification like a long list of chores


Now I ain't judgin I'm just sayin quit puttin on a fake look
there's a problem if people only know you're a Christian by your Facebook
In every other aspect of life you know that logic's unworthy
it's like sayin you play for the Lakers just because you bought a jersey
__________________
Now Unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24)
UntoHim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 10:05 AM   #4
OBW
Member
 
OBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DFW area
Posts: 3,953
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

My wife played that a couple of days ago on her computer. There is a fair bit of truth in it, and yet it leaves a bad taste in my mouth because, like Lee, it simply distills everything down according to the following formula:
Religion = (everything bad that has been found within religion or claimed to be done in the name of religion)
Each item listed is absolutely true. And I get riled up about the same things. But I don't declare that it is the sum total of religion, while the good we do in worship, study, and practice is something else. And since it is added to discussion in a broad, public place in which religion is much more than just its bad things, it pretends to suggest that everything that people call religion must be bad. And there is a way of thinking that would like that result. They want not only to deny religious activity of any kind in government institutions or properties, but even your ability to privately practice your "religion" as you see fit. They don't want you to be able to teach your children about anything that they call "religion." And for them, the whole of Christianity is just religion.

But Christianity is religion. Not just a religion.

So the fight is really against hypocrisy. Against veiling evil and unrighteousness with the cloak of religion. Against wielding the book of the God of love as if it is a battle axe.

I despise the presumption that good Christians vote Republican (or even Libertarian); the insistence that America is a "Christian" nation (besides culturally -- and that is fading); the "wars" on homosexuality, abortion, etc. I despise the nasty, ruthless rhetoric of people who otherwise might claim to represent my position on things. My position is mostly about how I behave, live, and believe. It is not the basis upon which I decide who to love and/or what kind of love I will dole out. (And for the most part, I don't believe that so-called "tough love" is mine to mete out except to those for whom I have charge to discipline.)

Christ was not simply versus religion. He was versus religion that had lost its roots; lost its meaning; lost its reason for existing. He was versus people who used religion as a way to gain control over people.
__________________
Mike
I once thought I was. . . . but I may have been mistaken Edge (with apologies)
OBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 11:29 AM   #5
Igzy
Member
 
Igzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,554
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW View Post
But Christianity is religion. Not just a religion.

So the fight is really against hypocrisy. Against veiling evil and unrighteousness with the cloak of religion. Against wielding the book of the God of love as if it is a battle axe.

I despise the presumption that good Christians vote Republican (or even Libertarian); the insistence that America is a "Christian" nation (besides culturally -- and that is fading); the "wars" on homosexuality, abortion, etc. I despise the nasty, ruthless rhetoric of people who otherwise might claim to represent my position on things. My position is mostly about how I behave, live, and believe. It is not the basis upon which I decide who to love and/or what kind of love I will dole out. (And for the most part, I don't believe that so-called "tough love" is mine to mete out except to those for whom I have charge to discipline.)

Christ was not simply versus religion. He was versus religion that had lost its roots; lost its meaning; lost its reason for existing. He was versus people who used religion as a way to gain control over people.
I disagree somewhat. "Religion" specifically defined as serving practices rather than God and/or attempting to please God in your own strength is a definite problem with mankind. It's not just hypocrisy. It's a specific kind of deception which replaces one type of devotion with another.

Lee got some things wrong, but his definition of religion as attempting to please God apart from an ongoing relationship with Christ was pretty much spot on.

Religion as used here is attempting to be a Christian apart from abiding in Christ. The word religion can be defined in other ways. But I've noticed that when people argue against this kind of thing it's usually becomes a matter of semantics, about how the word "religion" should be defined. But that's not an interesting discussion. The question is, once the specific definition is understood, does the rapper have a point, and he certainly does.
__________________
Courage is not the absence of fear. It's doing the right thing in the face of fear.
Igzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 11:30 AM   #6
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 10,429
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW View Post
My wife played that a couple of days ago on her computer. There is a fair bit of truth in it, and yet it leaves a bad taste in my mouth because, like Lee, it simply distills everything down according to the following formula:
Religion = (everything bad that has been found within religion or claimed to be done in the name of religion)
But Christianity is religion. Not just a religion.

So the fight is really against hypocrisy. Against veiling evil and unrighteousness with the cloak of religion. Against wielding the book of the God of love as if it is a battle axe.

Christ was not simply versus religion. He was versus religion that had lost its roots; lost its meaning; lost its reason for existing. He was versus people who used religion as a way to gain control over people.
I agree with OBW's observations. It's too easy to use that video and condemn all others. Sound familiar?
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

.
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 11:59 AM   #7
ToGodAlone
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

I think the point of the poem is more about glorifying Christ and what he stood for more so than "bashing" religion. The way I saw it, he was just highlighting the difference between Christianity and the rest of "religion" namely, love. Obviously, there are some stanzas here and there that people can choose to nitpick, but I think that's really missing the point...or maybe focusing on something minor relative to the whole. I far from expect this to bring joy to everyone's ears, but still, brother's got a point am I right?
ToGodAlone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 12:33 PM   #8
UntoHim
Grateful Servant
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,486
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

I haven't read Christ Versus Religion in many years (hasn't been 50, but quite a few). I agree with Mike's assessment that "Christ was not simply versus religion", and this is some of the point I was making in posting the video in the first place, and using the title "Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!" I also agree with Igzy's assessment that "The question is, once the specific definition (of religion) is understood, does the rapper have a point, and he certainly does"

The irony to me is the similarity in "the message" of the rapper and Lee's original work - difference being what Lee took a couple of hundred pages to do, the rapper did in a few minutes. Both greatly oversimplified the matter at hand, but I highly doubt that the kid is going to get a big following or have a whole sect started because of this little ditty.
__________________
Now Unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24)
UntoHim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 01:19 PM   #9
ToGodAlone
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

I think when it comes to the matter of what defines "religion" in this particular piece, this blog post addresses it nicely. I think Igzy got it on the money when he said that you need to have the proper definition of religion in mind for the piece in order to truly understand the speaker's mindset.

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/...ta-not-really/

Long story short, the guy just wants to proclaim the love of Christ, not start up this whole thing about whether or not Jesus was against religion or whatever else.
ToGodAlone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:02 PM   #10
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 10,429
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW View Post
But Christianity is religion. Not just a religion.

So the fight is really against hypocrisy.
Against veiling evil and unrighteousness with the cloak of religion. Against wielding the book of the God of love as if it is a battle axe.
Having the Recovery as our backdrop, I don't think we can stress this point enough.

The Lord Jesus did not condemn the entire Jewish religion when He ministered on earth. What Jesus did condemn was the hypocrisy of their leaders. Numerous cases exist throughout the gospels, where He upheld the Jewish religion, and even honored it. The Lord's rebukes to the Jewish leaders centered on their hypocrisy, including their traditions which made His commandments void.

WL's book Christ vs. Religion confused this issue, creating a much larger "enemy" in the name of religion, than merely the hypocrisy condemned by the Lord. By transposing the words "hypocrisy" and "religion," WL successfully included all believers. All Christians were thus categorized with the hypocrites. The book of James uses this word "religion," which is another reason why James is so discredited in the LRC. I believe many LC'ers have been damaged by this confusion. So much so, that the LSM has a history of condoning their own hypocrisy, all the while condemning all other Christian churches, denominations, free gatherings, and ministries.

How totally self-serving their condemnation on religion has become.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

.
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:28 PM   #11
UntoHim
Grateful Servant
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,486
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The Lord Jesus did not condemn the entire Jewish religion when He ministered on earth. What Jesus did condemn was the hypocrisy of their leaders. Numerous cases exist throughout the gospels, where He upheld the Jewish religion, and even honored it. The Lord's rebukes to the Jewish leaders centered on their hypocrisy, including their traditions which made His commandments void.
Excellent! Just was I was thinking but you beat me to the punch. Remember the Lord Jesus did refer to the temple as "My Father's House", therefore there was still something genuine left of that dusty old religion of the Jews after all. He also went into the temple to teach in many of the cities he visited, so maybe he wasn't quite as "versus" religion as we have been led to believe. Maybe if he would come back today he would go into one of those fancy dancy megachurches and turn over the tables that sell those self help books and religious trinkets.....just thinkin out loud here...
__________________
Now Unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24)
UntoHim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:46 PM   #12
Igzy
Member
 
Igzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,554
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Having the Recovery as our backdrop, I don't think we can stress this point enough.

The Lord Jesus did not condemn the entire Jewish religion when He ministered on earth. What Jesus did condemn was the hypocrisy of their leaders. Numerous cases exist throughout the gospels, where He upheld the Jewish religion, and even honored it. The Lord's rebukes to the Jewish leaders centered on their hypocrisy, including their traditions which made His commandments void.

WL's book Christ vs. Religion confused this issue, creating a much larger "enemy" in the name of religion, than merely the hypocrisy condemned by the Lord. By transposing the words "hypocrisy" and "religion," WL successfully included all believers. All Christians were thus categorized with the hypocrites. The book of James uses this word "religion," which is another reason why James is so discredited in the LRC. I believe many LC'ers have been damaged by this confusion. So much so, that the LSM has a history of condoning their own hypocrisy, all the while condemning all other Christian churches, denominations, free gatherings, and ministries.

How totally self-serving their condemnation on religion has become.
Although your point is well-taken, again I say it's not just about hypocrisy, it's also about simply being deceived by a false substitute of genuine service of God.

Again, the validity of the subject depends one which definition of religion one is using. Let's not make this a semantic argument about what "religion" really means and whether the word is okay to use. The question is what is the essence of the boy's point, and though hypocrisy is part of the equation, it is not all of it. The rest of it simply having a mistaken assumption of what kind of service pleases God.

I'm not advocating condemning "entire religions" or a scorched earth policy against "religion." But the fact is people who pray rosary beads with the idea that the sheer number of beads prayed makes a difference to God are deceived, but their problem isn't hypocrisy. It may just be misplaced sincerity.

Lastly, let me comment on your statement:
"I believe many LC'ers have been damaged by this confusion."
Let's be honest, LCers have been damaged by a lot of things. So take your pick. But the problem often isn't the essential information being given, the problem is LCers are never allowed to process the information they are given and to put it into perspective. So the result is they end up getting damaged because they don't know the basic skills of gaining understanding on their own. They just let their teachers tell them what to think and, whether it makes sense or not to them, they run with it, often trampling anyone who has the misfortune to be in their way, including each other.

Mindlessness + lots of information = disaster

Mindlessness + lots of information + zeal = total disaster
__________________
Courage is not the absence of fear. It's doing the right thing in the face of fear.
Igzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 03:24 PM   #13
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 10,429
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
by this confusion." Let's be honest, LCers have been damaged by a lot of things. So take your pick. But the problem often isn't the essential information being given, the problem is LCers are never allowed to process the information they are given and to put it into perspective. So the result is they end up getting damaged because they don't know the basic skills of gaining understanding on their own. They just let their teachers tell them what to think and, whether it makes sense or not to them, they run with it, often trampling anyone who has the misfortune to be in their way, including each other.
I'm not buying this. It diverts us from the topic at hand, and sends us down a road that doesn't match the facts. Many LC'ers are the brightest folks I have ever met, full of knowledge and insight into human life. I believe that most did have "the basic skills of gaining understanding on their own," but excessively trusted their leaders for other reasons. But I'll leave this to another thread.

I agree with your point about the dangers of "simply being deceived by a false substitute of genuine service of God." Nicodemus was one such example of this. He was deceived by a false "religion" of service to God. The Lord did not rebuke him, however, neither did the Lord treat him harshly. Instead, the Lord educated Him, and "made him wise unto salvation." The Lord showed him a better way, the way of faith which brought the new birth.

Our topic here is centered on the word "versus." What is Christ "versus?" Is He versus religion? I'm not so sure anymore. Is He versus a false substitute? Perhaps, because they cheat His people. Is He versus hypocrisy? Definitely, His word tells us that repeatedly.

Maybe I'm seeing things in black and white.




__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

.
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 04:03 PM   #14
OBW
Member
 
OBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DFW area
Posts: 3,953
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

I knew that mentioning the whole "what is the definition of religion" thing would not just slip by entirely. But as I listened to it, I recall that by the end, even having heard the beginning, that bad taste was still there. There is something problematic about the kind of even unintentional equivocation that occurs in the mind of the listener.

And then, as I read some of the more recent posts, this stuck out to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
. . . it's also about simply being deceived by a false substitute of genuine service of God.
And my question then is "what is genuine service to God"? Is it:
  • Some subset of our human activities?
  • Things done in time of worship, during prayer/study of the word, during "fellowship," and when specifically doing "justice"?
  • Anything that a Christian does that is not inconsistent with God's righteousness and not done for base reasons (which would be inconsistent with God's righteousness)?
What goes through our minds when we say "genuine service to God"?
__________________
Mike
I once thought I was. . . . but I may have been mistaken Edge (with apologies)
OBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 04:18 PM   #15
Abounding
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 14
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

I have seen this posted quite a bit. When I first saw it I thought that is was interesting. Some points are quite true. It was when a facebook contact from the LC posted it that I thought it was offensive. I felt that they consider where I attend now to be "religion", while I consider them to be "religion" I think what happens is saten comes into religion and tries to ruin it. This video is an exsample of satan trying to turn people away from God. They will think that they just won't meet with other believers because it is all hypocrisy. This is what divides the body.
Abounding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 09:58 PM   #16
ToGodAlone
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abounding View Post
This video is an exsample of satan trying to turn people away from God. They will think that they just won't meet with other believers because it is all hypocrisy. This is what divides the body.
I think that's a little over the top. I agree that some of the wording turns people off, but I'm pretty sure his aim to get the name of Christ out there and to bring people TO him, not turn them away. You're not going to please everyone, but in a world where mentioning "religion" in general, not to mention Christianity (which seems to receive more hate than any other religion), is frowned upon and subject to a lot of scrutiny, having a video such as this, which is trending all over the place, which proclaims the love of Christ in an atmosphere where any and all can see, that's pretty awesome. It may be its popularity that is the reason for all of this intense studying of the lyrics and whatnot, but sometimes I think people are just straight up overanalyzing it. But I guess I could be insane...
ToGodAlone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 03:38 AM   #17
OBW
Member
 
OBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DFW area
Posts: 3,953
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

I finally hit one of the links and it was in ToGodAlone's post (#9) that was to a write-up on it by one of my favorite bloggers, Kevin DeYoung. And he put it pretty much the way I did. Much more verbosely. I haven't been reading any of my blogs for the past couple of months and it was a little encouraging to get back into it after reading this one.

I will admit that among the blogs I follow, DeYoung is among the most "traditional," and is a pastor of a Reformed Church essentially down the street from Rob Bell's Mars Hill in Michigan. And if any of them tend to wax toward towing the standard "church" line, he would be the one. But I still like him.

And I think he got it right on this. He detailed all the words and tells us that there are both positive and questionable things included. My take on the whole is similar to DeYoung's. Zeal without grace. Despises self-righteousness but doesn't see the value of obedience and sanctification. Those are hard things. They will constantly show where we are not "up to snuff." But if we simply despise those who are not immediately succeeding, then we discourage them from trying and keeping on the road of sanctification. We make people think that you might as well give up if you can't just do it the first time out.

Or we could try Lee's way, which is not to try, but simply ignore righteousness while continuing to take in so-called "dispensing" until it just oozes from your pores and you become righteous.

Yes, many of the things he talks about are problems sometimes. But they are not simply "religion" and the good things simply "Christianity." And anyone (in this forum) who thinks that we are not supposed to "try" has not gone through a full detox from Lee's rhetoric. That kind of polarized, false dichotomy is designed to separate you from others, one way or the other. To with feel superior for not being in "religion" or dejected for not yet "being there." Or as some in the LRC used to call it, "making it." John So came to Dallas one time back in the 70s (I believe) and sort of mocked the rhetoric of "making it." Maybe his ouster was not simply about PL and the LSM, but also his lack of respect for the polarizing lingo of the movement.
__________________
Mike
I once thought I was. . . . but I may have been mistaken Edge (with apologies)
OBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 03:48 AM   #18
OBW
Member
 
OBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DFW area
Posts: 3,953
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abounding View Post
I have seen this posted quite a bit. When I first saw it I thought that is was interesting. Some points are quite true. It was when a facebook contact from the LC posted it that I thought it was offensive. I felt that they consider where I attend now to be "religion", while I consider them to be "religion" I think what happens is saten comes into religion and tries to ruin it. This video is an exsample of satan trying to turn people away from God. They will think that they just won't meet with other believers because it is all hypocrisy. This is what divides the body.
I started to agree with ToGodAlone. But on a second look, I don't think it is over the top. It may not simply be "when Satan comes" to ruin things. But it is a sort of "get it right the first time or don' try" attitude.

You know the old saying "if at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you." Well the Christian life is not skydiving. It is trying and failing in an environment in which you are encouraged to get up and try again, not one in which you either succeed the first time or you are dead.

And trying is not contrary to the gospel. No, you don't "get saved" (at least initial salvation) by trying. But you when it comes to sanctification, if you don't try, you can't succeed. If you don't step out in faith, then the evidence is that you must not really have any. And you fail because you did not try. It is not a Jedi thing in which it is simply do or do not. But you should undertake it as if you are to do. Even if you fail.
__________________
Mike
I once thought I was. . . . but I may have been mistaken Edge (with apologies)
OBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 06:23 AM   #19
Paul Cox
Member
 
Paul Cox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 183
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

The video left me feeling a little disturbed, too. It's one of those things that on the one hand makes you say, yes, in one part of you, and at the same time leaves you feeling there is something wrong.

Here is the problem, I think. Lee was wrong. Christ was not vs religion. He did not come preaching an "anti" message. And he didn't have to paint a dark backdrop of religion in order to make himself shine all the more. He presented Himself as the everything to our every need. He confronted the hypocrisy of religion when it confronted Him. Judaism was the continuation of the healthy body of work that God had been doing all along. Hypocrisy was a diseased attachment.

The Local Church was presented to us based on an anti message. We had to be anti Christianity in order to be for Christ and the Church.

Now, what has the Local Church become? A sect of Christianity, with cultic tendencies, and a religious structure that can compare with the staunches of "religion." A system of error.

P.C.

(go Saints)
Paul Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 07:32 AM   #20
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 10,429
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cox View Post
hrist was not vs religion. He did not come preaching an "anti" message. And he didn't have to paint a dark backdrop of religion in order to make himself shine all the more. He presented Himself as the everything to our every need. He confronted the hypocrisy of religion when it confronted Him. Judaism was the continuation of the healthy body of work that God had been doing all along. Hypocrisy was a diseased attachment.
Well said . . . "He confronted the hypocrisy of religion when it confronted Him." This should be our attitude, too. Had more people in the LRC this attitude, perhaps it's history would have been a bit more honorable.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

.
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:53 AM   #21
UntoHim
Grateful Servant
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,486
Default Re: Christ Versus Religion 50 Years Later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cox View Post
The Local Church was presented to us based on an anti message. We had to be anti Christianity in order to be for Christ and the Church.
Well this sums it up pretty well I would say. Looking back, it seems so illogical...to be "anti" the very Body of Christ that we were claiming to be "the best" part of. I guess this is just one of the many paradoxes in the Local Church that allowed us to become a caricature of ourselves. Now, after decades of this charade, the LC has become a virtual antithesis of what they claim to be, and the walls they have built up around seem impenetrable. May the Lord have mercy.
__________________
Now Unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24)
UntoHim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:52 AM.


3.8.9