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Old 02-23-2017, 10:54 PM   #1
Evangelical
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Default Calling God Father

Sinclair Ferguson said this:
You cannot open the pages of the New Testament without realizing that one of the things that makes it so 'new,' in every way, is that here men and women call God 'Father.' This conviction, that we can speak of the Master of the universe in such intimate terms, lies at the heart of the Christian faith. ~ Sinclair Ferguson

A teaching that says that people only called God Father in the new testament is a wrong concept and means Ferguson is not that good as a theologian. Intimacy with God is throughout the Old Testament. In fact, love was characteristic of God's relationship with Israel (Deuteronomy 7:7-8).

The following websites confirm that God was called Father in the Old Testament:
Calling God as “Our Father”, is not a new idea only seen in the New Testament. It is a recurring depiction of the close relationship between the Creator and His people, commonly seen in the Old Testament. Yeshua and the New Testament writers did not invent this idea. Rather they built upon the thought of having such a loving Creator, who was willing to call His creation “His Children”. Our Heavenly Father has, and will not change. He has always seen the ones who love Him as Children, and His people have also understood their Creator to be a loving Father from ancient times. I hope you are empowered with Scripture, to show the truth to people who say, that God has changed and that He came into a “Father – Son” relationship only in the New Testament.

https://biblethingsinbibleways.wordp...old-testament/

From :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father#Judaism

The Jewish concept of God is that God is non-corporeal, transcendent and immanent, the ultimate source of love,[25][26][27][28] and a metaphorical "Father".[2] The Torah declares: "God is not a man (איש : ['iysh]) that He should lie, nor is He a mortal (בן–אדם : [ben-'adam]) that He should relent". (Book of Numbers 23:19 Hebrew: לא אישׁ אל ויכזב ובן־אדם ויתנחם ההוא אמר ולא יעשׂה ודבר ולא יקימנה‎‎)[71][72][73]

The Aramaic term for father (Hebrew: אבא ‎‎, abba) appears in traditional Jewish liturgy and Jewish prayers to God (e.g. in the Kaddish).
According to Ariela Pelaia, in a prayer of Rosh Hashanah, Areshet Sfateinu, an ambivalent attitude toward God is demonstrated, due to His role as a Father and as a King. Free translation of the relevant sentence may be: "today every creature is judged, either as sons or as slaves. If as sons, forgive us like a father forgives his son. If as slaves, we wait, hoping for good, until the verdict, your holy majesty." Another famous prayer emphasizing this dichotomy is called Avinu Malkeinu, which means “Our Father Our King” in Hebrew. Usually the entire congregation will sing the last verse of this prayer in unison, which says: "Our Father, our King, answer us as though we have no deed to plead our cause, save us with mercy and loving-kindness."[74]


While some may cherish the thought of being able to call God Father, few will teach, like Witness Lee, that the indwelling resurrected Christ is the greatest difference between the old and the new testament.
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Calling God Father

Yes. We agree that God has been called "Father" since before the New Testament. I don't see how this fits in with your quote:

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While some may cherish the thought of being able to call God Father, few will teach, like Witness Lee, that the indwelling resurrected Christ is the greatest difference between the old and the new testament.
I also don't see your point here. As far as I've always understood it, and experienced by numerous congregations, everybody accepts that Jesus is the defining difference between the two testaments. I don't see what any of this has to do with the LC denomination.
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Old 02-24-2017, 02:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Calling God Father

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Originally Posted by DistantStar View Post
Yes. We agree that God has been called "Father" since before the New Testament. I don't see how this fits in with your quote: I also don't see your point here. As far as I've always understood it, and experienced by numerous congregations, everybody accepts that Jesus is the defining difference between the two testaments. I don't see what any of this has to do with the LC denomination.
My point is that the quote by Ferguson puts emphasis on what we call God, as being a key difference in our relationship and intimacy with God between the old and the new. I pointed out that even in the Old Testament people called God Father, and God called them His children, so that cannot be the key difference.

You are right that Christians realize Jesus is the key difference between the old and the new, and not what we call God (Father, or otherwise). However, most denominations put emphasis on the historical person of Jesus, what he did and what he taught as recorded in the gospels. However, the LC puts particular focus on the indwelling resurrected Christ, as per Paul's gospel, and that is the difference. Not just the LC, but any "inner life" groups, in contrast to the traditional churches (emphasis on the historical Jesus as being the key difference between the old and the new), evangelical (emphasis on the gospel & crucifixion as being the key difference between the old and the new) and Pentecostal groups (emphasis on the spiritual gifts and power of the Spirit as being the key difference between the old and the new).

I will now highlight the problems with focusing on these things as the key difference between the old and the new:

Calling God Father:
It is obvious that ancient Israel called God Father and God called them His children, so that cannot be the key difference.

Historical Figure:
If Christ had simply come and gone as a historical figure, without indwelling us, there would be no real change between the old testament and the new testament in terms of our intimacy and relationship with God. So that cannot be the key difference.

Gospel and crucifixion:
If Christ had simply died on the cross without indwelling us, there would be no real difference between the old and the new. Jesus would have been just another "old testament sacrifice", and our condition would be the same as the ancient Israelites.

Gifts and power of the Spirit:
Although God pouring out His Spirit on all flesh, Jew and Gentile alike, is a major difference between the old and the new, being able to work miracles is not a key difference between the old and the new.

The key difference between the old and the new is the indwelling Christ (as per Paul's gospel, Galatians 2:20, 2 Cor 13:5). We do not find "God lives in me" occurring anywhere in the Old Testament - while the Old Testament saints (Saul, David, John the Baptist, the Prophets etc) enjoyed a degree of (abiding) intimacy and experience of the Spirit, in the New Testament it is multiplied to a greater degree to even sinners, Jew and Gentile alike.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Calling God Father

"However, most denominations put emphasis on the historical person of Jesus, what he did and what he taught as recorded in the gospels. However, the LC puts particular focus on the indwelling resurrected Christ, as per Paul's gospel, and that is the difference."

Dear E: From where do you get your information? You believe a lie propagated by Lee and the blendeds. I have been in many places were the indwelling Christ is emphasized. Lee and the blendeds don't know squat about the heart and love of Jesus found in denominations outside of the LSM LC.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: Calling God Father

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Originally Posted by HERn View Post
"However, most denominations put emphasis on the historical person of Jesus, what he did and what he taught as recorded in the gospels. However, the LC puts particular focus on the indwelling resurrected Christ, as per Paul's gospel, and that is the difference."

Dear E: From where do you get your information? You believe a lie propagated by Lee and the blendeds. I have been in many places were the indwelling Christ is emphasized. Lee and the blendeds don't know squat about the heart and love of Jesus found in denominations outside of the LSM LC.
Would you mind educating us then about which denominations emphasize the indwelling Christ?
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Calling God Father

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Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
Would you mind educating us then about which denominations emphasize the indwelling Christ?
When you answer from where you received your information I will list the many groups that I have personal experience with that emphasized the indwelling Christ. Please don't believe the lies Lee and the blendeds are telling.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Calling God Father

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Originally Posted by HERn View Post
When you answer from where you received your information I will list the many groups that I have personal experience with that emphasized the indwelling Christ. Please don't believe the lies Lee and the blendeds are telling.
As you said, Lee and the Blendeds.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:50 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
As you said, Lee and the Blendeds.
Thank you for being honest. I don't think you would lose your status as an overcomer if you were to visit denominations other than the LSM LC and enjoy the friendship of other believers who enjoy the indwelling Christ.
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