Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > Orthodoxy - Christian Teaching

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-09-2019, 07:55 AM   #1
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,613
Default Abraham's Seed (& The Law was like a Booster Rocket)

A brother spoke yesterday in the Sunday gathering on the 2nd half of Galatians chapter 3. Afterwards there was some really enlightening and free-flowing testimonies and fellowship regarding things saints were seeing regarding it.

Quote:
Here are two verses in particular:

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 3:16 & 29
The brother expounded about how the word "seed" here is singular in both verses (and not as some translations have it as plural or "descendants" in verse 29). So verse 16 & 29 equates Christ with those in Him - marvelous! What hath God wrought!?

Then a sister shared that the law, which is spoken of in all the verses between 16 & 29, had been like a "booster rocket" to get the Jews to Christ. This prompted a bunch of fellowship yesterday - so in this analogy "in orbit" is "in Christ." Therefore the promise to Abraham was like saying, "I will put you in orbit." Then, at some point, something was needed to help with getting them there - a booster rocket. And after the booster rocket did its job of getting them in orbit, the boosters fell away and it (aka the law) was of no use anymore.

The message to the Galatians is that once Christ came there is no need for the law, as we are put directly into Him. This is akin to being placed directly in orbit - no booster rocket is needed now - we are transported directly there! Therefore, when we are put into Christ, the law is not needed (before or after), because the Spirit of reality in Christ has come to live in us!

So we enjoyed this fellowship yesterday, and I just thought to share for your edification --> Praise Him for His awesome Word!!!
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 02:26 PM   #2
OBW
Member
 
OBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,201
Default Re: Abraham's Seed (& The Law was like a Booster Rocket)

I think that we should not over-apply Paul's reference to "seed" v "seeds" in Galatians. It was relevant to the point he was making. But I believe that you cannot make that the only meaning. The account in Genesis 12 refers to giving the land to Abraham's "seed." And Genesis 13 refers to the "seed" being as the dust of the earth effectively beyond numbering, therefore a plurality.

I am not denying Paul the prophetic understanding of the unique seed that would bring potentially more than Jews into the fold as part of Abraham's seed. Just noting that it is not simply a singular item in all cases unless it is made plural by the adding of an "s" at the end.

But while we are ultimately part of that seed because of Christ, I am not sure that it actually equates us with Christ. Participants in Christ maybe. Even partakers of the divine nature (but not becoming god/God). But not equal to Christ.

It might make us feel good to think that. But is it of substance that helps us to live the life we are called to live? Having a point over which we shout "hallelujah" is less meaningful than one that moves us toward living the Christian life.

Just looking for views that drive us toward godliness in life and not just propositions to get "enjoyment" over.
__________________
Mike
I once thought I was. . . . but I may have been mistaken Edge (with apologies)
OBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 08:50 PM   #3
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Abraham's Seed (& The Law was like a Booster Rocket)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW View Post
I think that we should not over-apply Paul's reference to "seed" v "seeds" in Galatians. It was relevant to the point he was making. But I believe that you cannot make that the only meaning. The account in Genesis 12 refers to giving the land to Abraham's "seed." And Genesis 13 refers to the "seed" being as the dust of the earth effectively beyond numbering, therefore a plurality.

I am not denying Paul the prophetic understanding of the unique seed that would bring potentially more than Jews into the fold as part of Abraham's seed. Just noting that it is not simply a singular item in all cases unless it is made plural by the adding of an "s" at the end.
.
OBW, this subject has been a cause for much head-scratching for me too. How did Paul arrive at this conclusion? For I don't believe that the word seed appears in the English plural form anywhere else in the Bible other than in Galatians where Paul is making the case. I think perhaps one should approach this matter in a more academic fashion to get to the bottom of it. Otherwise it would seem that Paul plucked the singular/plural distinction conveniently out of the air.

One should note particularly two things: firstly, recall that the apostle had been a pharisee who had sat at the feet of Gamaliel and therefore studied the Scriptures in the Hebrew tongue inscribed in Hebrew characters (i.e. letters). Secondly, when he was making this argument he was writing to the gentile Galatians and so probably wrote it in Greek.

Therefore, it is entirely possible that in both cases, that is, in both languages the written form allows for a clearly discernible distinction between the plural and the singular for the word 'seed'. Whereas in English, unless you are talking fruits and vegetables, the distinction is a forced and unusual one.

I read somewhere that the word for 'sin' in the classical Greek which is 'harmatia' presented almost similar difficulties for the translators, though it even has a known plural form.

Just my take
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 09:13 PM   #4
OBW
Member
 
OBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,201
Default Re: Abraham's Seed (& The Law was like a Booster Rocket)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I read somewhere that the word for 'sin' in the classical Greek which is 'harmatia' presented almost similar difficulties for the translators, though it even has a known plural form.
Worse than that, the word we translate to "sin" really does not infer a slight missing of an arrow otherwise aimed at the bullseye of a target. It means to be really off. In serious error. But because the English word that is now "sin" included that slight error as a meaning, we have subsumed it into the Bible's meaning.

To borrow from one of Jesus' statements on another subject "it was not so from the beginning."
__________________
Mike
I once thought I was. . . . but I may have been mistaken Edge (with apologies)
OBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 06:29 AM   #5
JJ
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 922
Default Re: Abraham's Seed (& The Law was like a Booster Rocket)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post
A brother spoke yesterday in the Sunday gathering on the 2nd half of Galatians chapter 3. Afterwards there was some really enlightening and free-flowing testimonies and fellowship regarding things saints were seeing regarding it.

The brother expounded about how the word "seed" here is singular in both verses (and not as some translations have it as plural or "descendants" in verse 29). So verse 16 & 29 equates Christ with those in Him - marvelous! What hath God wrought!?

Then a sister shared that the law, which is spoken of in all the verses between 16 & 29, had been like a "booster rocket" to get the Jews to Christ. This prompted a bunch of fellowship yesterday - so in this analogy "in orbit" is "in Christ." Therefore the promise to Abraham was like saying, "I will put you in orbit." Then, at some point, something was needed to help with getting them there - a booster rocket. And after the booster rocket did its job of getting them in orbit, the boosters fell away and it (aka the law) was of no use anymore.

The message to the Galatians is that once Christ came there is no need for the law, as we are put directly into Him. This is akin to being placed directly in orbit - no booster rocket is needed now - we are transported directly there! Therefore, when we are put into Christ, the law is not needed (before or after), because the Spirit of reality in Christ has come to live in us!

So we enjoyed this fellowship yesterday, and I just thought to share for your edification --> Praise Him for His awesome Word!!!
According to Galatians 3 and Romans 7 justification by faith “Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” came first, and that is how we too become sons of Abraham (believe in Jesus Christ the promised seed of Abraham). The law came 430 years later to “lock us up in sin and kill us”, “that sin may become exceedingly sinful” and “be a guardian until Christ should come. “But now that he is come we are no longer under a guardian but in Christ”. And He frees us from the law of sin and death through his death and resurrection into the law of the Spirit of life in Himself.

I wouldn’t equate the law with a booster rocket to put us into orbit then. Maybe a rocket propelled grenade to kill us and send us into a grave
__________________
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 NASB)
JJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 07:18 AM   #6
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,613
Default Re: Abraham's Seed (& The Law was like a Booster Rocket)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ View Post
According to Galatians 3 and Romans 7 justification by faith “Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” came first, and that is how we too become sons of Abraham (believe in Jesus Christ the promised seed of Abraham). The law came 430 years later to “lock us up in sin and kill us”, “that sin may become exceedingly sinful” and “be a guardian until Christ should come. “But now that he is come we are no longer under a guardian but in Christ”. And He frees us from the law of sin and death through his death and resurrection into the law of the Spirit of life in Himself.

I wouldn’t equate the law with a booster rocket to put us into orbit then. Maybe a rocket propelled grenade to kill us and send us into a grave
Right! To show us our utter insufficiency and worthiness of death!

I think the booster rocket analogy was meant to show it was not necessary any more. (as most all spiritual analogies go, there is usually some shortcoming in its interpretation)
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:24 PM.


3.8.9