First Post kumbaya

[BlueOrchid]

Kumbaya, wow. You say Lee was a genius, but wow so are you!! You are gifted with eloquence and wisdom. I have an interest in psychology and I have enjoyed reading your posts. Your post about the book cases, I just read, and I had made a comment on my thread about this same thing! You are so right about the LSM bookshelves being on display, so pot kettle black about Christmas trees.
I am celebrating Christmas this year for the first time with the least amount of guilt!! Wrong or not, Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.

I would love to see the correlation between the 19 out of 26 or so mind control tactics that the FTT uses on people. Maybe you could message it to me?

Also you are right on about the boundaries, having to re learn everything, being an HSP (which I am as well) and makes total sense 1/4 of the shock that the shape of the earth might be different! lol. It's a huge blow. It's been a couple of years since I started digging and I am still dealing with the shock.
Could you elaborate more on your perspective of hospitality in the LCM?
It's been lovely reading your thoughts.

God bless you!

~Blue Orchid

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by BlueOrchid

Kumbaya, wow. You say Lee was a genius, but wow so are you!! You are gifted with eloquence and wisdom. I have an interest in psychology and I have enjoyed reading your posts. Your post about the book cases, I just read, and I had made a comment on my thread about this same thing! You are so right about the LSM bookshelves being on display, so pot kettle black about Christmas trees.
I am celebrating Christmas this year for the first time with the least amount of guilt!! Wrong or not, Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.

I would love to see the correlation between the 19 out of 26 or so mind control tactics that the FTT uses on people. Maybe you could message it to me?

Also you are right on about the boundaries, having to re learn everything, being an HSP (which I am as well) and makes total sense 1/4 of the shock that the shape of the earth might be different! lol. It's a huge blow. It's been a couple of years since I started digging and I am still dealing with the shock.
Could you elaborate more on your perspective of hospitality in the LCM?
It's been lovely reading your thoughts.

God bless you!

~Blue Orchid

Thank you for saying all that! I don't think and don't want the pressure of being a "genius" and I'm definitely not (I've taken some tests, haha!).

I can say I do have an ability to see things from multiple perspectives sometimes and I can pick up on unspoken communication including pressure and pick out manipulation. I think a lot of people can do it, you have to also not care very much about what people think about you to ever make a difference with that gift though! Although, I do think of it as a curse sometimes bc its easy to get overstimulated.

When I found out about all this in the church, I cried almost every day. I was miserable. I was also dealing with some other issues in my past but the combination of it all was a lot to handle.

However, I'm glad I went through it because I HAD NO CHOICE but to try to confront my "weirdness" that I've felt during my life and I learned that I was I highly sensitive person.

CAAAAAAAA-LIIIIIICCCCCKKKKKK!!!!! hahaha

It ALL made sense and yay for you finding out you are too! It's so validating isn't it, to know that you're not crazy for feeling and sensing things the way you do when it seems others aren't. I was always told I was too sensitive and too emotional. I like change but I take my own sweet time adjusting my environments and care VERY much about the ones close to me and anyone/anything that might cause them harm. Does that make sense to you, too? I think I had to learn a lot about psychology to learn why my counselor called me a "narcissist magnet" (rude! lol). But he was right, I was. I almost don't like to use the word empath except in the way its described by psychology bc it's used in other circles as a description for someone who opens themselves up to other things besides Christ. Maybe I'm a Christian empath then- if that's possible, ha!

I'm not meaning to go on about myself, I'm sorry! I feel like you might feel the same way though and I think its important to know when you hear people talking about things like that- that we've thought we were crazy and had bad self esteem our whole lives. So give us 5 min to recognize that we have something to offer, ok??? hehehe.....

Ok, back to being serious though- I love to hear and give advice (to help, not control) but I think its important to have your OWN journey and not fall into another trap of group think. I'm really trying to heal and better myself emotionally, become stronger, set better boundaries....And maybe I'm "indoctrinated" with the idea of the body, soul, spirit model from WL- but I feel like I need to heal my body and soul right now and then I'll be better prepared to equip myself for the spiritual stuff. Spiritual experiences are necessary and I may be overly cautious but I just can't handle being in a group of believers right now. Maybe that's a lie from the enemy but I have to take baby steps. We're all different but remember to consider whether or not you're ready to "rejoin" a Christian group and I would go as far to advise that you read about the tactics of spiritual abuse before you do. When you're in the group, you do it without knowing. I've even done it. It's all part of the group think structure. I just don't want to ever be involved with that again, you know?

I'm really happy for you that you're doing what YOU want to do and living YOUR life. You should do exactly that! Celebrate Christmas, do all the (granted, GOOD) and healthy things that you feel to do.

I think our own individual paths get so mislead with dogma and pressure from others. I'm not sure you're personality type but I need a lot of alone time to realign myself with what I feel is right. I can easily get caught up in other peoples agendas if I'm not careful! Just watch out for that, hon!

I've wanted to go back to the things I've read and list out/describe some of them so thank you for reminding me! I haven't had the time yet to read the spiritual abuse forum and brainwashing forum so I was going to do that first...

I've found a lot of helpful things (for free) on archive.com.....it's like youtube in that its free but also has videos and ebooks/audiobooks. Then overdrive, an app that works with your public library. I'm still constantly annoyed at the utter lack of audiobooks. I have ADD, my need to multitask is borderline extreme. I can sit if I'm really interested but I would MUCH prefer an audiobook.

The two books I would recommend I CAN'T find an audiobook link so I'm sorry but they are, "Toxic Faith" and "The subtle power of spiritual abuse." They are so good. You can watch some you tube videos of the author of the 2nd book- Steven Attabery (I def misspelled his name btw!) that summarize a lot of the points. I read those on overdrive, you just "check out" an ebook.

After I read that forum on the spiritual abuse and when I have more time (hopefully tonight) I'll write out some of the practices I saw. If you just google thought reform tactics or coercive persuasion tactics though you can see for yourself what they are and I'm POSITIVE you will see some used in at least one or many practices in the church.

Yuck, just yuck.

I posted a link a day or two ago to an audio of an expert talking about thought reform. I had to listen to it 3 times to FULLY get it all. Ha! So much for being a smarty pants! He's just really informed and it's kind of like a doctor talking to another doctor in parts. He definitely is talking about high concepts and you have to pay attention. He really universalizes the idea about thought reform and how it has and could be used in the future. If you can get to minute 15 he starts to transition into how they are used in cults and starts listing at minute 20 I believe (or around then).

He doesn't go into them all but you can just look up you tube videos or articles about what healthy vs. unhealthy spiritual practices are and they're all pretty much the same. I mean, reading a psychology journal is better but at this day in age- they're just summarizing it in a 10 min video and it's pretty agreed upon information. At least for this subject, you tube videos for learning is fine You have to be careful with that though!

Oh, hospitality! I could and maybe should write a lot but I don't have time today. I'll keep it as short as I can.

Now, I do not mean to relate this to hospitality and I'm sorry for the "fear tactic" here but I think even members in the LC agree that their group CAN and DOES attract people with an "odd" personality. Kind of like, "Hey, you're weird and no one likes you? Even if it's for a great reason, we'll love you! Do this and you're my brother now!" Now, I'm a huge champion for the underdog and being as weird as you want, but the church DID have some pedophiles in it (ugh, probably still does- they are in lots of churches). Unfortunately, the mindset when finding out about past offenses was, "You're forgiven by God and taken the blood." I don't know details but I know there were some predators in the past that were found out. This happens with all groups though, I may be critical of the alleged response to it but this kind of thing does happen in churches.

That being said, the practice of hosting strangers in your home with your family is something that I'm GLAD to see happen less often in the church in recent years. We used to have/be a guest in hospitality as a regular practice growing up. I DO ADMIT that many times, the hospitality was to people they knew or knew of and their was some trust there but I know that wasn't always the case. I just don't think it's wise if you don't know them well and I have a bigger problem with WHY I believe WL taught this practice. It's just one aspect he taught of cultivating different practices into a system that doesn't have personal boundaries.

What's one of the first things you learn as a kid?? STRANGER DANGER!!

Why does this not apply?? Until we can actually read someones mind to know whether or not their intentions are pure- you shouldn't have strangers in your home, especially with your children.

Aside from it just being careless, it just further pushed the "corporate" agenda AKA "group think" agenda. It decreases individuality and self examination/self critical thinking and pushes behavioral "STANDARDS" of how to live.

Think about it, you really have to take WL's advice on how to live your life if you have other people coming into your home and seeing how you live....Better get rid of that TV, better not hang out with people outside the LC, get the point?

Now, I think it can definitely be used in a normal way. It's the fact that WL teaches it as a practice that I have a problem with. That sort of thing should happen naturally. Its just another pressure and standard to live up to with the practice of doing it. It also encourages people to travel to other cities outside their locality for conferences. ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY (*tear- hate this is true*) How much LESS money would LSM make if hospitality wasn't a practice and saints had to pay for hotel rooms. Granted, some did. But the ones who could just afford the "fee" can NOW go too! So, more ticket sales and everyone gets to "peek in" on everyone's life and how they live. Uh-oh, that's where the panic sets in. Better clean up your religious practices while the hospitality is there!! Obviously, I'm being extreme but its manages to enforce group think/control while also providing the comfort of being in a group (we all desire that psychologically- can be used to manipulate/control) and best of all - LSM makes more money!!!

Of COURSE hospitality is going to be a practice taught by WL. Just another manipulative one, I'm not afraid to call it like I see it- sorry! lol

I know I was rambling and don't have time to edit but Im looking forward to talking more soon!