Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I thump the Bible too.

I thump every day. But I don't like Trumping.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Apparently better than you. They try to smear Christians by saying they support Trump. But the reality is it is primarily rural whites, poor whites, and unemployed whites. Christianity has little to no basis. If you filter out those who are voting for him for ethnic reasons and economic reasons, then religion doesn't play a role.

Obviously since the majority of hispanics are catholic you would not get a high % of Catholics supporting him. Also, the vast majority of minorities that are not Catholic would be considered evangelical, muslim, or Jews. So they don't talk about Brown or Black evangelicals, only White.

Don't blame Christians for Trump.

Are you among those who believe that the USA is a Christian nation?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I knew a brother who would write in "Native American" since he was a native American.

I've done that too.

"I am native American, I was born here."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Are you among those who believe that the USA is a Christian nation?

Depends on your definition.

Nominally yes.

In comparison to decidedly non Christian countries like Saudi Arabia and India, yes.

But based on some kind of NT definition, no.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I've done that too.

"I am native American, I was born here."

Yeah. Plus you have white privilege. The Native American Indians didn't get citizenship until 1924.

America was founded by white people. Trump wants to keep it that way. That's what he means by Make America Great Again. When asked what he meant by "again," he said 1950. That was before the civil rights movement, and during the Jim Crow days ; when there were whites only bathrooms and drinking fountains. That's what he means by great again. And prolly why you voted for him.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah. Plus you have white privilege. The Native American Indians didn't get citizenship until 1924.

America was founded by white people. Trump wants to keep it that way. That's what he means by Make America Great Again. When asked what he meant by "again," he said 1950. That was before the civil rights movement, and during the Jim Crow days ; when there were whites only bathrooms and drinking fountains. That's what he means by great again. And prolly why you voted for him.

Didn't you ever study history? It was the Democrats that deceived the Indians (think Andrew Jackson), kept the slaves (Democrats in the North and the South), and resisted civil rights.

It was the Republicans that fought for their freedoms. Ever hear of Abraham Lincoln?

Try not to get your history from mainstream media. Let me recommend a good encyclopedia.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Didn't you ever study history? It was the Democrats that deceived the Indians (think Andrew Jackson), kept the slaves (Democrats in the North and the South), and resisted civil rights.

It was the Republicans that fought for their freedoms. Ever hear of Abraham Lincoln?

Try not to get your history from mainstream media. Let me recommend a good encyclopedia.

I know the history. So when did the parties flip? LBJ? Nixon? The southern states are now predominately republican.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I know the history.

That's doubtful.

If you knew the history of the liberal progressive movement in the US, and it's key players, you would have no part of it.

[Ohio]

Trump's approval went up? Whassup with that?

The Media has been predicting the end of the world for more than a year!

They have become the outreach arm of the worst fundamental religious fanatics -- the evil cult of progressivism -- with their High Priest Obama, who wants to clone himself with millions more, and their High Priestess Crooked Hilary herself.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah. Plus you have white privilege. The Native American Indians didn't get citizenship until 1924.

America was founded by white people. Trump wants to keep it that way. That's what he means by Make America Great Again. When asked what he meant by "again," he said 1950. That was before the civil rights movement, and during the Jim Crow days ; when there were whites only bathrooms and drinking fountains. That's what he means by great again. And prolly why you voted for him.

Seriously? If you are going to make "white privilege" a political issue, that is the most racist policy imaginable. You want to make it the law of the land to intentionally discriminate against people based on their skin tone and then condemn those being discriminated against because they vote against this? Sounds idiotic.

1950 was immediately after WWII, we were the dominant power in Europe and Asia. China was nothing but a rural, poverty stricken nation being ruled by an idiot. Russia had been decimated by the war. Our standing on the world stage and our dollar were never more influential.

1950 was also when the US car manufacturers were the envy of the world. The US was dominant in science and engineering, thanks very much to the Jewish exodus from Germany and Europe.

1950 was before OPEC had power or influence. Before oil embargoes.

Pollution of land and water were not yet a major concern as the pesticide companies were just beginning to peddle poison.

But instead of stating the obvious you point out that this was when we still had "white's only water fountains" in a few southern states. How can anyone take you seriously?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I know the history. So when did the parties flip? LBJ? Nixon? The southern states are now predominately republican.

Since when did the "Southern States" epitomize something negative? My mother's family are all from Jackson, Ms. My uncle had his house blown up by the KKK because he was standing against racism. The KKK is a small minority of bigots left over from the Civil War. You don't get rid of bigots by being a bigot. The best way to deal with them is with modern forensic tools and the FBI. Once they could no longer hide under sheets they were exposed as the cowards they are.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/cl...&pid=179944171

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump's approval went up? Whassup with that?

The Media has been predicting the end of the world for more than a year!

They have become the outreach arm of the worst fundamental religious fanatics -- the evil cult of progressivism -- with their High Priest Obama, who wants to clone himself with millions more, and their High Priestess Crooked Hilary herself.

Both you and Awareness need to realize that demonizing your opponent is not a way to reconcile the country.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Both you and Awareness need to realize that demonizing your opponent is not a way to reconcile the country.

Wait a minute.

Several of you have been piling on me for years. Now you decide to step back and reprimand two of us for what you do too?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Apparently better than you. They try to smear Christians by saying they support Trump. But the reality is it is primarily rural whites, poor whites, and unemployed whites. Christianity has little to no basis. If you filter out those who are voting for him for ethnic reasons and economic reasons, then religion doesn't play a role.

Obviously since the majority of hispanics are catholic you would not get a high % of Catholics supporting him. Also, the vast majority of minorities that are not Catholic would be considered evangelical, muslim, or Jews. So they don't talk about Brown or Black evangelicals, only White.

Don't blame Christians for Trump.

Did you even read the article? The sociologists found "that Americans’ religious beliefs, behaviors and affiliation did not directly influence voting for Trump. In fact, once Christian nationalism was taken into account, other religious measures had no direct effect on how likely someone was to vote for Trump. These measures of religion mattered only if they made someone more likely to see the United States as a Christian nation." Your allegation of "blame" appears unfounded.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wait a minute.

Several of you have been piling on me for years. Now you decide to step back and reprimand two of us for what you do too?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Is this a step up for me? I'm usually grouped with zeek. But why would ZNP put you down like that? You, who won't bow to your high priest Obama. But who kisses the ring of pontif Trump

Thanks for the laughs bro Ohio. And you too ZNP.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Did you even read the article? The sociologists found "that Americans’ religious beliefs, behaviors and affiliation did not directly influence voting for Trump. In fact, once Christian nationalism was taken into account, other religious measures had no direct effect on how likely someone was to vote for Trump. These measures of religion mattered only if they made someone more likely to see the United States as a Christian nation." Your allegation of "blame" appears unfounded.

So now you and ZNP need to realize that demonizing your opponent is not a way to reconcile the country.

But I do think ZNP has made some needed points. The country is extremely polarized. (The real Russian collusion is intended to fan these flames.) By posting and siding with media articles, the conflicts just spread further.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wait a minute.

Several of you have been piling on me for years. Now you decide to step back and reprimand two of us for what you do too?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Who have I demonized?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Did you even read the article? The sociologists found "that Americans’ religious beliefs, behaviors and affiliation did not directly influence voting for Trump. In fact, once Christian nationalism was taken into account, other religious measures had no direct effect on how likely someone was to vote for Trump. These measures of religion mattered only if they made someone more likely to see the United States as a Christian nation." Your allegation of "blame" appears unfounded.

You said "Despite porn stars and Playboy models, white evangelicals aren’t rejecting Trump. Why? Christian nationalism".

You did not qualify "white evangelicals" as specific to those for whom "Christian nationalism" was taken into account. That sounds like a very small sliver of evangelicals. You smeared "white evangelicals". That is what I was taking issue with.

White evangelicals who have "Christian nationalism" as a core value is just a very long way of describing nazis or brown shirts or white supremacists. To equate evangelicals with that fringe group is slander.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Is this a step up for me? I'm usually grouped with zeek. But why would ZNP put you down like that? You, who won't bow to your high priest Obama. But who kisses the ring of pontif Trump

Thanks for the laughs bro Ohio. And you too ZNP.

It's not me who obsesses over Trump, but you.

It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So now you and ZNP need to realize that demonizing your opponent is not a way to reconcile the country.

But I do think ZNP has made some needed points. The country is extremely polarized. (The real Russian collusion is intended to fan these flames.) By posting and siding with media articles, the conflicts just spread further.

I have supported an investigation, that is not the same as siding with media articles and fanning flames of conspiracy nuts.

I don't believe in rushing investigations on one hand and on the other feel that after a reasonable amount of time (a year is certainly a reasonable amount of time) you need to have demonstrated a valid reason to continue. I think Mueller has certainly demonstrated a valid reason to continue. I think he has also justified his intention to question the president.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Who have I demonized?

I said reprimand.

Piling on me for deciding not to hate Trump like the rest of the folks here.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have supported an investigation, that is not the same as siding with media articles and fanning flames of conspiracy nuts.

I don't believe in rushing investigations on one hand and on the other feel that after a reasonable amount of time (a year is certainly a reasonable amount of time) you need to have demonstrated a valid reason to continue. I think Mueller has certainly demonstrated a valid reason to continue. I think he has also justified his intention to question the president.

I have posted numerous articles that debunk the notion that the Mueller investigation is at all fair. Nothing about the investigation is right, honorable, or above the table. Sure the Russians are bad actors, but the overwhelming evidence of collusion for the last decade points to Hilary, Obama, and certain bad actors our intelligence community. Uranium One sellout is exhibit number one.

Quick example of media bias. Why no sympathy for Flynn, a career civil servant, who was illegally unmasked, deceptively interviewed by Strzok, illegally wiretapped by the FBI, bankrupted by Muller's team of crooked investigators like Weissmann, convicted of a "process" crime which will be overturned here shortly.

Compare this to the outpouring of sympathy for crooked McCabe, whose investigator Strzok interviewed Hilary without oath, who exonerated her even before interviewing her, who lied to Congress, who deceived the FISA court, who hatched the "insurance plan" to take down a sitting president. His "lack of candor" is FBI-speak for lack of honesty or integrity.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You said "Despite porn stars and Playboy models, white evangelicals aren’t rejecting Trump. Why? Christian nationalism".

You did not qualify "white evangelicals" as specific to those for whom "Christian nationalism" was taken into account. That sounds like a very small sliver of evangelicals. You smeared "white evangelicals". That is what I was taking issue with.

White evangelicals who have "Christian nationalism" as a core value is just a very long way of describing nazis or brown shirts or white supremacists. To equate evangelicals with that fringe group is slander.

I didn't say no white evangelicals are rejecting Trump and I linked the article so any interested party could see that among religious groups, white evangelical Protestants continue to be solidly supportive of the president’s job performance: 78% approve today, while just 18% disapprove. Your accusation of slander is unfounded.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I didn't say no white evangelicals are rejecting Trump and I linked the article so any interested party could see that among religious groups, white evangelical Protestants continue to be solidly supportive of the president’s job performance: 78% approve today, while just 18% disapprove. Your accusation of slander is unfounded.

the article says "78% approve of Job performance", you said despite porn stars and playboy models, evangelicals approve. Regardless of whether or not those accusations are 100% true, they are not "job performance". If the question was "lifestyle" or "sexual behavior" then that would be relevant.

Your statement took the response to one question and applied it to a very different one. I completely disapprove of the allegations of Trump's behavior with porn stars and playboy models. However, if I answered a survey about his job performance as president I would not put my disapproval of his personal behavior prior to being president as being relevant.

Accusation of slander is well founded.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I said reprimand.

Piling on me for deciding not to hate Trump like the rest of the folks here.

I don't have any issue with you "not hating Trump".

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have posted numerous articles that debunk the notion that the Mueller investigation is at all fair. Nothing about the investigation is right, honorable, or above the table. Sure the Russians are bad actors, but the overwhelming evidence of collusion for the last decade points to Hilary, Obama, and certain bad actors our intelligence community. Uranium One sellout is exhibit number one.

Quick example of media bias. Why no sympathy for Flynn, a career civil servant, who was illegally unmasked, deceptively interviewed by Strzok, illegally wiretapped by the FBI, bankrupted by Muller's team of crooked investigators like Weissmann, convicted of a "process" crime which will be overturned here shortly.

Compare this to the outpouring of sympathy for crooked McCabe, whose investigator Strzok interviewed Hilary without oath, who exonerated her even before interviewing her, who lied to Congress, who deceived the FISA court, who hatched the "insurance plan" to take down a sitting president. His "lack of candor" is FBI-speak for lack of honesty or integrity.

I have not shown any bias towards Flynn. I have only stated the facts which may or may not indicate a hidden agenda and bias.

I have also stated repeatedly that I am all for investigating any and all corruption. But Al Capone claiming the trial is unfair because Dillinger killed more people is an apples and oranges argument.

The sympathy for McCabe has nothing to do with him being fired. I don't know the details of that and they have not yet been released to the public. So your claim to be in possession of all the facts is not true. What I do know is the investigation was rushed so that he could be fired 2 days before being able to retire with his benefits. This was done at the behest of the President who tweeted about this months before any legitimate investigation could have been performed.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

the article says "78% approve of Job performance", you said despite porn stars and playboy models, evangelicals approve. Regardless of whether or not those accusations are 100% true, they are not "job performance". If the question was "lifestyle" or "sexual behavior" then that would be relevant.

Your statement took the response to one question and applied it to a very different one. I completely disapprove of the allegations of Trump's behavior with porn stars and playboy models. However, if I answered a survey about his job performance as president I would not put my disapproval of his personal behavior prior to being president as being relevant.

Accusation of slander is well founded.

You seem to be taking the article personally when it isn't saying anything about you. It's a statistical finding. Just read the article and you'll see. They found that the more someone believed the United States is a Christian nation, the more likely they were to vote for Trump. "Americans who agreed with the various measures of Christian nationalism were much more likely to vote for Trump, even after controlling for other influences, such as political ideology, political party and other cultural factors proposed as possible explanations."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have not shown any bias towards Flynn. I have only stated the facts which may or may not indicate a hidden agenda and bias.

The sympathy for McCabe has nothing to do with him being fired. I don't know the details of that and they have not yet been released to the public. So your claim to be in possession of all the facts is not true. What I do know is the investigation was rushed so that he could be fired 2 days before being able to retire with his benefits. This was done at the behest of the President who tweeted about this months before any legitimate investigation could have been performed.

Several serious errors in your post here --

Little of which you have stated are actual facts
McCabe's firing was labeled an assault on the FBI
I never claimed to possess all the facts
The investigation into McCabe was never rushed
His firing had nothing to do with Trump's behests
The investigation into McCabe's actions was begun long before Trumped screamed foul

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's not me who obsesses over Trump, but you.

It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome.

TDS ... you're a hoot Ohio. What about ODS?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's doubtful.

If you knew the history of the liberal progressive movement in the US, and it's key players, you would have no part of it.

I don't. Remember? I'm a mugwump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Several serious errors in your post here --

Little of which you have stated are actual facts
McCabe's firing was labeled an assault on the FBI
I never claimed to possess all the facts
The investigation into McCabe was never rushed
His firing had nothing to do with Trump's behests
The investigation into McCabe's actions was begun long before Trumped screamed foul

Labeled an assault by who?

If you don't have all the facts then how do you claim that McCabe is "crooked". Until we see all the facts we merely have the allegations which McCabe has yet had a chance to refute.

Trump tweeted months before McCabe was fired about firing him prior to his reaching the date at which he could retire with full benefits. You can interpret it any way you wish, but given the facts it is quite reasonable for Sessions to interpret it that firing McCabe when he did would please Trump which was confirmed by Tweets from Trump after he was fired.

How long do these investigations generally take? Was McCabe given adequate time to respond and refute? That is my basis for saying it was rushed.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Labeled an assault by who?

Liberal media. Didn't you watch the news.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you don't have all the facts then how do you claim that McCabe is "crooked". Until we see all the facts we merely have the allegations which McCabe has yet had a chance to refute.

I don't have all the facts, but there are sufficient facts to know McCabe is crooked.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Trump tweeted months before McCabe was fired about firing him prior to his reaching the date at which he could retire with full benefits. You can interpret it any way you wish, but given the facts it is quite reasonable for Sessions to interpret it that firing McCabe when he did would please Trump which was confirmed by Tweets from Trump after he was fired.

Sure Trump hates McCabe, but he was dismissed by Wray immediately after seeing the House Intelligence report. The Senate also is investigating. McCabe was fired based on the FBI OPR and the DOJ IG investigations. They had nothing to do with Trump. Sessions is his own man. He may have been appointed by Trump, but "Mr. Magoo" is not his "boy." Trump's Tweeter only hurts himself when he goes after others.

Let me repeat. McCabe was in effect fired by his own people because he no longer had Comey or Lynch to protect him. McCabe has said that if he goes down, he will take others with him, and that is why Muller must continue. His own freedom depends on it.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

How long do these investigations generally take? Was McCabe given adequate time to respond and refute? That is my basis for saying it was rushed.

These four investigations (House, Senate, FBI OPR, and DOJ IG) can only refer criminal prosecution to the DOJ, but they can definitely make recommendations concerning his employment at the FBI, which they did. McCabe lacked candor, and thus became a liability to them.

McCabe knew what he was doing could both get him fired and get him indicted. He was banking on the support of others. Once Comey, Yates, and Lynch were terminated, he had no protection. He only had the court of public opinion, fueled by Brennan, Comey, and Clapper, to help him.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't. Remember? I'm a mugwump.

But you caucus with the progressives.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

McCabe lacked candor, and thus became a liability to them.

I am aware that this is the reason that Sessions (who definitely lacked candor in his own testimony) gave for firing him. I am also aware that McCabe is going to respond and that we have not been given access to all the information.

You may be right, Sessions may be right. But even if he is right he is also a hypocrite who has not provided me with sufficient evidence to make a judgement.

As far as watching the news, I watch as little as I can get away with. If I see a story that is important I will read a little on it. But for the most part the "news" is simply blowhards prognosticating. I hate the news that I am seeing, I certainly don't need to double and triple the time spent with a bunch of useless discussion on possible ways it will play out.

Think about Mueller, he doesn't say a word except to give subpoena's and indictments. Yet there is endless discussion, every day about him, what he might be doing, and this is fueled by all the tweets from Trump and comments made by his lawyers, etc. Eliminate all the commentary and you have enough real news to make headlines on three or four days.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But you caucus with the progressives.

Hogwash. I caucus with no one. Sure I don't caucus with Fox, like you. But neither do I caucus with MSNBC, or any other of the news stations. My main news source is Mail Online, and also Drudge Report. Other than that I comb the web, not aligning with left or right reports, but doing my best to see thru biases I find in all of them.

In other words, I caucus with none of them, like you do with your 'right' sources. So you accuse me of what you are doing. You are the one that caucuses. That's why you have to say I do.

I will admit tho. If being a Christian means being a Trump supporter, then I'm not a Christian. At least not that type. Cuz Trump represents no Christian values, no family values, and no Christian morals. Trump is bamboozling Christians.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am aware that this is the reason that Sessions (who definitely lacked candor in his own testimony) gave for firing him. I am also aware that McCabe is going to respond and that we have not been given access to all the information.

You may be right, Sessions may be right. But even if he is right he is also a hypocrite who has not provided me with sufficient evidence to make a judgement.

As far as watching the news, I watch as little as I can get away with. If I see a story that is important I will read a little on it. But for the most part the "news" is simply blowhards prognosticating. I hate the news that I am seeing, I certainly don't need to double and triple the time spent with a bunch of useless discussion on possible ways it will play out.

Think about Mueller, he doesn't say a word except to give subpoena's and indictments. Yet there is endless discussion, every day about him, what he might be doing, and this is fueled by all the tweets from Trump and comments made by his lawyers, etc. Eliminate all the commentary and you have enough real news to make headlines on three or four days.

So you need Sessions to provide you with enough evidence? Has Muller done the same for you?

You felt that the indictment of Flynn was justification and vindication for Muller. If Flynn's conviction is vacated for prosecutorial misconduct, would you reconsider? If McCabe and Strzok are indicted for using the phony Dossier to deceive FISC, would you also admit that the whole Russian collusion was intelligence disinformation -- a presidential coup?

I have pointed out some news sites which are actually doing legitimate investigative work. I thought that would be of interest to you. You are right about all the commentary noise on the airwaves. The real news is coming from what the FBI and DOJ are slowly releasing and a few investigative reporters. None of that is being reported on, except to provide disinformation, discrediting, and general hysteria.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Hogwash. I caucus with no one. Sure I don't caucus with Fox, like you. But neither do I caucus with MSNBC, or any other of the news stations. My main news source is Mail Online, and also Drudge Report. Other than that I comb the web, not aligning with left or right reports, but doing my best to see thru biases I find in all of them.

In other words, I caucus with none of them, like you do with your 'right' sources. So you accuse me of what you are doing. You are the one that caucuses. That's why you have to say I do.

I will admit tho. If being a Christian means being a Trump supporter, then I'm not a Christian. At least not that type. Cuz Trump represents no Christian values, no family values, and no Christian morals. Trump is bamboozling Christians.

You say you have no attachment to progressives, yet your views are identical to theirs. You say that you also read conservative sources, yet your views reflect none of theirs.

Why do you worry about Christians so much? Why do you obsess about who they like or don't like? You are convinced that all Christians are fools anyway, so why do you care if they are deceived? Haven't you said repeatedly that Christians have been fooled by a book full of errors?

Freedom of speech means that we give others the right to believe things which we would consider both stupid and wrong. You seem to be unable to accept that.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

TDS ... you're a hoot Ohio. What about ODS?

What's that?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't. Remember? I'm a mugwump.

I was not sure what exactly this meant, so I looked it up.

Mugwump:

This archetypal American word derives from the Algonquian dialect of Native Americans in Massachusetts. In their language, it meant “war leader”. The Puritan missionary John Eliot used it in his translation of the Bible into their language in 1663 to convey the English words duke, officer and captain.

Mugwump was brought into English in the early nineteenth century as a humorous term for a boss, bigwig, grand panjandrum, or other person in authority, although often one of a minor and inconsequential sort. This example comes from a story in an 1867 issue of Atlantic Monthly: “I’ve got one of your gang in irons — the Great Mugwump himself, I reckon — strongly guarded by men armed to the teeth; so you just ride up here and surrender”.

It hit the big time in 1884, during the presidential election that set Grover Cleveland against the Republican James G Blaine. Some Republicans refused to support Blaine, changed sides, and the New York Sun labelled them little mugwumps. Almost overnight, the sense of the word changed to turncoat. Later, it came to mean a politician who either could not or would not make up his mind on some important issue, or who refused to take a stand when he was expected to do so. Hence the old joke that a mugwump is a person sitting on the fence, with his mug on one side and his wump on the other.

There is also a slangy sense — less known these days, I believe — of a person who has been persuaded by his possession of a minor official position into a sense of self-importance, often becoming obnoxious as a result.

So now I know:

• You're a native American war leader
• You think you're the "bigwig" boss of the forum
• You used to be a Republican, but changed sides, because you hate Cleveland, where I grew up
• You're actually a "turncoat" traitor
• You can't make up your mind on any issue
• You love to sit on fences, with mug on one side and wump on the other
• You let this moderator thing give you an exaggerated sense of self-importance

So now I know what a MUGWUMP is.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

If being a Christian means being a Trump supporter, then I'm not a Christian.

Every time you and Zeek repeat this drivel you provide evidence for the "fake news".

1. The article that Zeek provided didn't say Christians support Trump. It didn't say Catholics, or Protestants, or even Evangelicals support Trump.

What it said is that a very strange group they refer to as "White Evangelicals" that adhere to a Christian Nationalist doctrine support Trump.

I have met with many Evangelical groups and they have always been very diverse with whites always being a minority or at the very least not a majority.

If you characterize the LRC as Evangelical then that would have been the whitest Evangelicals I ever met with, yet Chinese and Asians were the majority of that group (when viewed as a worldwide organization and not locally).

But in none of these groups was the US being a Christian Nation ever some kind of doctrine that we adhered to.

What is exceedingly clear is that they did not say that Christians support Trump because Protestants and Catholics and non white Evangelicals would be the lion share of that in the US.

Rather it is white nationalists that identify as Evangelical -- i.e. White supremacists, Brown Shirts, or Nazis. But instead of saying that KKK and Nazis support Trump they want to insinuate that Evangelical Christians support him. This narrative is a confirmation of what Ohio has been preaching about HC BO being the high priest and priestess of some anti Christians political movement.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I was not sure what exactly this meant, so I looked it up.

So now I know:

• You're a native American war leader
• You think you're the "bigwig" boss of the forum
• You used to be a Republican, but changed sides, because you hate Cleveland, where I grew up
• You're actually a "turncoat" traitor
• You can't make up your mind on any issue
• You love to sit on fences, with mug on one side and wump on the other
• You let this moderator thing give you an exaggerated sense of self-importance

So now I know what a MUGWUMP is.

rotflmao ... That was great bro Ohio. I'm still cracking up.

I didn't know all that. I picked it up from Mark Twain, that used it as a term for someone that didn't support either party. But all the rest is pretty cool too.

I love your projections bro Ohio ; even tho I don't always agree with them, as they offend don't fit, but it's obvious that you need them.

Thanks for all that, and the history lesson. You ARE a peach.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Every time you and Zeek repeat this drivel you provide evidence for the "fake news".

1. The article that Zeek provided didn't say Christians support Trump. It didn't say Catholics, or Protestants, or even Evangelicals support Trump.

What it said is that a very strange group they refer to as "White Evangelicals" that adhere to a Christian Nationalist doctrine support Trump.

I have met with many Evangelical groups and they have always been very diverse with whites always being a minority or at the very least not a majority.

If you characterize the LRC as Evangelical then that would have been the whitest Evangelicals I ever met with, yet Chinese and Asians were the majority of that group (when viewed as a worldwide organization and not locally).

But in none of these groups was the US being a Christian Nation ever some kind of doctrine that we adhered to.

What is exceedingly clear is that they did not say that Christians support Trump because Protestants and Catholics and non white Evangelicals would be the lion share of that in the US.

Rather it is white nationalists that identify as Evangelical -- i.e. White supremacists, Brown Shirts, or Nazis. But instead of saying that KKK and Nazis support Trump they want to insinuate that Evangelical Christians support him. This narrative is a confirmation of what Ohio has been preaching about HC BO being the high priest and priestess of some anti Christians political movement.

Brother ZNP, your experience is limited. And obviously you haven't been keeping up with Evangelicals and their support of Trump.

If I were you, I'd drop your defensiveness, and start with David Barton of The Wallbuilders. Then I'd look into Franklin Graham III, and Jerry Falwell Jr.. Cuz it's well known that over 80% of Evangelicals voted for Trump.

I get it. You're in the minority, and are shamed by that fact. That's why you are so defensive. If I considered myself to be a Evangelical I'd be defensive too. Thank God I'm not. Sorry for you. They're giving you a bad name.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

rotflmao ... That was great bro Ohio. I'm still cracking up.

I didn't know all that. I picked it up from Mark Twain, that used it as a term for someone that didn't support either party. But all the rest is pretty cool too.

Glad you enjoyed that.

So, do you still wanna be a Mugwump?

How about our beloved MOTA: Mugwump of the Age.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Brother ZNP, your experience is limited. And obviously you haven't been keeping up with Evangelicals and their support of Trump.

If I were you, I'd drop your defensiveness, and start with David Barton of The Wallbuilders. Then I'd look into Franklin Graham III, and Jerry Falwell Jr.. Cuz it's well known that over 80% of Evangelicals voted for Trump.

I get it. You're in the minority, and are shamed by that fact. That's why you are so defensive. If I considered myself to be a Evangelical I'd be defensive too. Thank God I'm not. Sorry for you. They're giving you a bad name.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

70% of Americans identify as Christian

Approximately 1/3 of those who identify as Christian identify as Evangelical.

Approximately 1/5th of these Evangelical Christians are white. (https://www.religionnews.com/2017/09...s-study-shows/)

That means 1/15th of Christians in the US identify as “White Evangelical”. However, the criteria is even more specific including this concept of the US being a “christian nation”. Therefore, I find it quite reasonable to suggest we are talking about less than 5% of Christians in the US. That may be a large number, but remember, only 78% of that number supports Trump, so then we are really talking about 4% of Christians in the US.

Yet you take that article to smear all Evangelicals and all Christians.

That is the definition of using statistics to lie. Sorry for you.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yet you take that article to smear all Evangelicals and all Christians.

That is the definition of using statistics to lie. Sorry for you.

I know how much awareness likes Mark Twain, and you know what he said about statistics.

[zeek]

Ohio and ZNP feel persecuted. Now here's a case where a child is actually reported to be persecuted for her Christian faith:

ABUJA, Nigeria — Leah Sharibu likes biology, hanging out with friends and wants to be a doctor. The 15-year-old who was among the group of schoolgirls kidnapped by Boko Haram last month is the only one still being held by the militants — because she refused to convert to Islam.

“My daughter is alive, but they wouldn't release her because she is a Christian,” her father Nathan Sharibu said Monday. “They told her they would release her if she converted, but she said she will never become a Muslim. I am very sad, but I am also overjoyed because my daughter did not denounce Christ.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ian/460554002/

[Ohio]

Being a Native American Evangelical who supports Trump, I have no illusions that he is worthy to be my pastor. For me it's about policy, knowing that the alternative was far, far worse.

But since ZNP has brought up fake news, why is it that so many still hate Trump when one story after another has been debunked over time?

Remember last year "Russia, Russia, Russia?" Move along folks, nothing here to see.

The explanation for much of "Trump hate" has a lot to do with the endless lopsided smear campaign orchestrated by our media. Yesterday I watched a video clip of Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick, who were raped and molested by WJC. They were lied about, ridiculed, slandered, and had their reputations destroyed. By who? Every single media outlet except Fox. Yet today all these same outlets are showcasing Pornstars to attack Trump.

The media knows why they are all doing this. They are "meddling" with our next election by changing viewers minds. They are doing far more than Russia could ever hope to do.

ZNP says he only judges Trump on his own actions. But are not much of them just a retaliation for personal attacks? Neither Clinton nor Obama were ever assaulted like Trump has been, even Jimmy Carter admitted this, so we never got to see how they would act under such pressure.

Perhaps many of my other Native American Evangelicals also see thru the media lies.

[awareness]

As an aside.

Trump is famous for giving nicknames. Well he's got one going around on Capital Hill. They're calling him Spanky.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Being a Native American Evangelical who supports Trump, I have no illusions that he is worthy to be my pastor. For me it's about policy, knowing that the alternative was far, far worse.

But since ZNP has brought up fake news, why is it that so many still hate Trump when one story after another has been debunked over time?

Remember last year "Russia, Russia, Russia?" Move along folks, nothing here to see.

The explanation for much of "Trump hate" has a lot to do with the endless lopsided smear campaign orchestrated by our media. Yesterday I watched a video clip of Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick, who were raped and molested by WJC. They were lied about, ridiculed, slandered, and had their reputations destroyed. By who? Every single media outlet except Fox. Yet today all these same outlets are showcasing Pornstars to attack Trump.

The media knows why they are all doing this. They are "meddling" with our next election by changing viewers minds. They are doing far more than Russia could ever hope to do.

ZNP says he only judges Trump on his own actions. But are not much of them just a retaliation for personal attacks? Neither Clinton nor Obama were ever assaulted like Trump has been, even Jimmy Carter admitted this, so we never got to see how they would act under such pressure.

Perhaps many of my other Native American Evangelicals also see thru the media lies.

Almost. Actually you're a Nativist American. Nativists champion the purported interests of American citizens over those of immigrants, justifying their hostility to immigrants by the use of derogatory stereotypes.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Almost. Actually you're a Nativist American. Nativists champion the purported interests of American citizens over those of immigrants, justifying their hostility to immigrants by the use of derogatory stereotypes.

Lots of errors here.

I am a Native American, I was born here. Born in Berea, OH, hence a Berean.

American citizens can be immigrants, and immigrants can be American citizens.

Nativists do NOT champion citizens over immigrants, but champion all law abiding residents over illegal immigrant criminals.

There's nothing hostile about standing up for law and order, protecting one's family and property, and desiring protected borders.

Your use of stereotypes is typical liberal progressive identity politics. If someone does not agree with your narrow views (hey what happened to free speech?) then you resort to prejudicial name-calling, and insist that they must be racist, xenophobic, hateful, misogynist, homophobic, etc.

Like I said, your post is riddled with errors. Like ZNP has stated repeatedly, you are seriously prone to slander.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Being a Native American Evangelical who supports Trump, I have no illusions that he is worthy to be my pastor. For me it's about policy, knowing that the alternative was far, far worse.

But since ZNP has brought up fake news, why is it that so many still hate Trump when one story after another has been debunked over time?

Remember last year "Russia, Russia, Russia?" Move along folks, nothing here to see.

The explanation for much of "Trump hate" has a lot to do with the endless lopsided smear campaign orchestrated by our media. Yesterday I watched a video clip of Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick, who were raped and molested by WJC. They were lied about, ridiculed, slandered, and had their reputations destroyed. By who? Every single media outlet except Fox. Yet today all these same outlets are showcasing Pornstars to attack Trump.

The media knows why they are all doing this. They are "meddling" with our next election by changing viewers minds. They are doing far more than Russia could ever hope to do.

ZNP says he only judges Trump on his own actions. But are not much of them just a retaliation for personal attacks? Neither Clinton nor Obama were ever assaulted like Trump has been, even Jimmy Carter admitted this, so we never got to see how they would act under such pressure.

Perhaps many of my other Native American Evangelicals also see thru the media lies.

I am currently reading a book about Hitler and I was struck by how his party was against democracy because they had no chance at winning by an election. Therefore they attacked Democracy as a western import, focused on returning to the glory days which also included rule by a king. Today what we see is an attempt to destroy discourse with wild attacks from both sides.

[Ohio]

Let's commend Trump for standing up for small businesses.

Shares of Amazon are under pressure, down 5.68% Wednesday morning, following a report President Donald Trump is eyeing legal means to go after the e-commerce behemoth.

Axios' Jonathan Swan says Trump believes Amazon is making life difficult for smaller, locally-owned retailers and wants to find a way to slow down its dominance in online retail. Amazon has repeatedly showed an ability to disrupt entire sectors with corporate announcements. While Trump has not yet decided on any measures, he is considering changing Amazon's tax status or taking the route of antitrust action, Swan's report said.

This isn't the first time Trump has set his sights on the retailer." Amazon is doing great damage to tax paying retailers," Trump tweeted in August. "Towns, cities and states throughout the U.S. are being hurt - many jobs being lost!"

Wednesday's selling comes after a rough day for tech stocks on Tuesday. The sector was slammed by news that the Trump administration was considering a crackdown on Chinese investments into US companies. Amazon shares are up 28% this year before Wednesday's losses.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Being a Native American Evangelical who supports Trump, I have no illusions that he is worthy to be my pastor. For me it's about policy, knowing that the alternative was far, far worse.

I don't know about worse ... but not very good. And as far as policy, I know, I know, abortion and Israel. You'd vote for Satan if he promised those policies to you. Why? Cuz those are issues Jesus spent chapter after chapter on. His teaching against abortion was longer than the sermon on the mount. And the temple? Well he said he'd destroy it and rebuild it 2000 years later ... thru Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am currently reading a book about Hitler and I was struck by how his party was against democracy because they had no chance at winning by an election. Therefore they attacked Democracy as a western import, focused on returning to the glory days which also included rule by a king. Today what we see is an attempt to destroy discourse with wild attacks from both sides.

I'm a firm believer in the wisdom of the founding fathers, seen in the Constitution, with 3 equal but separate branches. The further we move from that foundation, the worse our problems get. At its core, the cultural battle we face between conservative and progressive factions, boils down to how far we move from our beginnings.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know about worse ... but not very good. And as far as policy, I know, I know, abortion and Israel. You'd vote for Satan if he promised those policies to you. Why? Cuz those are issues Jesus spent chapter after chapter on. His teaching against abortion was longer than the sermon on the mount. And the temple? Well he said he'd destroy it and rebuild it 2000 years later ... thru Trump.

Your disdain for Israel and the unborn almost matches how you feel towards Christians and the Bible.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know about worse ... but not very good. And as far as policy, I know, I know, abortion and Israel. You'd vote for Satan if he promised those policies to you. Why? Cuz those are issues Jesus spent chapter after chapter on. His teaching against abortion was longer than the sermon on the mount. And the temple? Well he said he'd destroy it and rebuild it 2000 years later ... thru Trump.

I am not a fan of Trump but this is not a reasonable critique of his policies.

1. Some people like his SCOTUS appointment.

2. Some people like his emphasis on a strong military.

3. Perhaps his approach with N. Korea will be better, too early to tell. The previous approach was obviously ineffective.

4. I do not see any good reason to treat Israel as some kind of red headed step child. We put our embassy in the capital of other countries. Calling this some kind of radical Christian bias is just hypocrisy.

5. Abortion is a big issue for many of us, dismissing this is insulting.

6. $25 billion for a wall represents slightly more than 1/2 of 1% of the US government budget. Since this would go to pay US laborers and contractors The US govt would probably get 40% of this back in taxes in just the first year. Second, I don't see how anyone can dispute that this will make the Mexican border safer and easier to monitor. Therefore the only real issue is if it is worth the $12 billion price tag. If you spread that over 25 years you are talking about $500 million per year for the wall. That is about 1/6th of the annual budget for border security with Mexico each year. But it hardly seems like that big a deal. Perhaps in the final analysis they should only have built $20 billion of the wall. We'll find out in the end.

7. Also, I would not be surprised if in the final analysis his administration gets higher marks for the conflicts in the Middle East compared to Obama, Clinton and Bush.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know about worse ... but not very good. And as far as policy, I know, I know, abortion and Israel. You'd vote for Satan if he promised those policies to you. Why? Cuz those are issues Jesus spent chapter after chapter on. His teaching against abortion was longer than the sermon on the mount. And the temple? Well he said he'd destroy it and rebuild it 2000 years later ... thru Trump.

Why do you have so little concern for the lives of the most innocent and vulnerable of all? Why kind of cold-blooded psychopath could actually be an abortionist? We're not talking about a few random murders, but more than a million a year just in the US.

We are the only nation on earth who really cares about Israel. They are surrounded by enemies who hate them, and have repeatedly tried to exterminate them. Sure, the temple was destroyed in AD70, but that helped bring the Gospel to the nations. Do you have any idea how the Gospel has benefited all mankind? Somehow you think this world would be a better place without Jesus, the Bible, or the church. You ought to go to some third or fourth world country, and get a glimpse of life without the Gospel.

Romans 11.20-21 tells us "not to be high-minded, but to fear God. For if He did not spare Israel, the natural branches, broken off due to unbelief, neither will He spare you, the Gentile branches." The time is coming for Israel to be restored, and the Gentiles to be judged.

[Ohio]

How slow the wheels of justice turn ...

COLLUSION DELUSION: New Documents Show OBAMA Officials, FBI COORDINATED in Anti-Trump Probe

Documents obtained by congressional investigators suggest possible coordination by Obama White House officials, the CIA and the FBI into the investigation into President Donald Trump’s campaign. Those senior Obama officials used unsubstantiated evidence to launch allegations in the media that the Trump campaign was colluding with Russia during the run-up to the 2016 presidential election, according to newly discovered documents and communications obtained by Congress.

[awareness]

Spanky's at it again. He promised Mexico would pay for the wall. We know what Mexico said to that.

Then the pubbies wouldn't fund it in the omnibill. Oh darn.

Then Spanky said the military got a lot of money in the omnibill, so they could pay for the wall. But congress would have to appropriate those funds. So fat chance for that.

Poor Spanky. No one wants to pay for the wall.

So Spanky started a Gofundme account.

Now, bro Ohio, who wants the wall, can pay for the wall.

Go Spanky.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Spanky's at it again. He promised Mexico would pay for the wall. We know what Mexico said to that.

Then the pubbies wouldn't fund it in the omnibill. Oh darn.

Then Spanky said the military got a lot of money in the omnibill, so they could pay for the wall. But congress would have to appropriate those funds. So fat chance for that.

Poor Spanky. No one wants to pay for the wall.

So Spanky started a Gofundme account.

Now, bro Ohio, who wants the wall, can pay for the wall.

Go Spanky.

We are all paying handsomely for NOT having a wall.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We are all paying handsomely for NOT having a wall.

Put your money where your mouth is.

[awareness]

Ohio says that it's just the media that's putting Trump down. But it's really Trump himself that makes Trump look like a buffoon.

“You can see a chicken as a penguin, but it’s still a chicken.”

Donald Trump tweeted a series of photos as he hailed the beginning of the construction of his long-promised border wall. “Great briefing this afternoon on the start of our Southern Border WALL,” he gushed on Wednesday.

The problem is, this is just a replacement of a fence dating back to the 1990s in Calexico in Southern California, just a 2 mile stretch, that was planned way before Trump. It's not the Trump border wall.

So is this example of Trump's buffoonery the media's fault, or Trump's? Should the media ignore Trump's delusions, or outright lies.

Trump: "You just say it and they believe it."

And now I'm sure I'm just a dreaded liberal for pointing it out ... too.

[zeek]

Ralph Peters, the retired Army officer who was a Fox News commentator for a decade said in an op ed in WaPo "There is indeed a witch hunt, and it’s led by Fox against Robert Mueller."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Ralph Peters, the retired Army officer who was a Fox News commentator for a decade said in an op ed in WaPo "There is indeed a witch hunt, and it’s led by Fox against Robert Mueller."

Obviously Peters is misinformed. I used to like that guy.

for all his work, Muller has a process crime against Gen Flynn which may be overturned here shortly. Flynn pleaded out to save his family. Where is the collusion with the Trump Team? There is none. Meddling yes; collusion no.

Keep going Muller! You should be able to indict the entire Russian government. Get Putin too! Why don't you find those guys who murdered that father/daughter in England? For all the money you spent so far, you should be able to find them. Perhaps secret agent Christopher Steele can help.

[zeek]

"Trump is gearing America up for war." The only way to stop him may be to get him out of office. Yet Trump hasn't shown that he would be above starting a war just to stay in office.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...327-story.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Trump is gearing America up for war." The only way to stop him may be to get him out of office. Yet Trump hasn't shown that he would be above starting a war just to stay in office.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...327-story.html

There is evidence that he would crash our stock market to make his friends rich, and that he would attack some of our best high tech companies as payback for them giving him negative reviews. But what is the evidence that he would start a war to stay in office?

[ZNPaaneah]

China imposing new tariffs on US meat, fruit, other products

I don't believe that China can sustain this. 800 million peasants are on a hand to mouth existence, raising the cost of food could be catastrophic. The other 200 million live from exports with the US being a major player in that.

As stupid as a trade war is, this may turn out to be a bold strategy to bring about better trade and foreign exchange deals with China.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There is evidence that he would crash our stock market to make his friends rich, and that he would attack some of our best high tech companies as payback for them giving him negative reviews. But what is the evidence that he would start a war to stay in office?

The article shows evidence Trump is already heading that way:

Upon taking office, [Trump] abandoned ...populist postures. Trump sent more troops to both Afghanistan, sustaining the United States' longest war into its 17th year, and Syria, with the Pentagon announcing that they would stay even after the Islamic State was defeated. He doubled down on U.S. support in Saudi Arabia's criminal assault on Yemen, while increasing the pace of drone bombings.

And now he has brought the most extreme and unreconstructed of hawks into the White House. New and more dangerous wars of aggression seem virtually inescapable. Bolton, supported by Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Pompeo, will presumably push to tear up the Iran deal in May. An attack by Israel or the United States on Iran's nuclear facilities will be the likely result, as Bolton has urged in writing. Bolton, supported by Pompeo, likely will use unrealistic demands to blow up the North Korea talks. If Bolton succeeds, he'll push for far more than a "bloody nose" attack on Kim's regime.

Add to that Trump's unchecked ambition, unscrupulous tactics, lack of compassion, duplicitousness and cunning. He has as a model the recent fact of history that Dubya recently from unpopular to so popular that no one in Washington would oppose him publicly when he went to war with the middle east. All that is required is some trumped up act of provocation by North Korea or Iran. History is riddled with tyrants who use war as a strategy for staying in power. Seems it would be ideal for Trump to get us embroiled in a scary war this year before the midterm election so he can have maximal impact on the outcome.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The article shows evidence Trump is already heading that way:



Add to that Trump's unchecked ambition, unscrupulous tactics, lack of compassion, duplicitousness and cunning. He has as a model the recent fact of history that Dubya recently from unpopular to so popular that no one in Washington would oppose him publicly when he went to war with the middle east. All that is required is some trumped up act of provocation by North Korea or Iran. History is riddled with tyrants who use war as a strategy for staying in power. Seems it would be ideal for Trump to get us embroiled in a scary war this year before the midterm election so he can have maximal impact on the outcome.

So, in short, the concern is that his threat to rip up the Iran deal + Bolton, Pompeo and Mattis will support him in a war with Iran? Seems like fear mongering.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So, in short, the concern is that his threat to rip up the Iran deal + Bolton, Pompeo and Mattis will support him in a war with Iran? Seems like fear mongering.

We'll see.

[zeek]

Pastor claims it's not hypocrisy for Evangelical Christians to support Trump. It's theology. https://www.texasobserver.org/the-li...-donald-trump/

[zeek]

501 Days in Swampland
A constant drip of self-dealing. And this is just what we know so far …https://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...-timeline.html

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

501 Days in Swampland
A constant drip of self-dealing. And this is just what we know so far …https://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...-timeline.html

The problem is that it was very obvious that Trump was a swamp animal before getting elected so we knew what we were getting ourselves into ... and still did it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

The problem is that it was very obvious that Trump was a swamp animal before getting elected so we knew what we were getting ourselves into ... and still did it.

You can't blame him for thinking he would get away with it, everyone else had.

[zeek]

Seems like the consensus of leaders of the Religious Right around Trump is breaking down. Who's right?

Family Talk Founder and President Dr. James Dobson recently called the omnibus spending bill signed by President Trump "a betrayal" to evangelical voters, especially since the bill includes funding for Planned Parenthood. https://radio.foxnews.com/2018/03/30...elical-voters/

Lou Dobbs To Trump’s Conservative Critics: “In Any Other Period In Our History, He Would Be Canonized” https://radio.foxnews.com/2018/04/02...-be-canonized/

[Ohio]

Beloved Liberal Icons caring for your children ...

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Beloved Liberal Icons caring for your children ...

Boy ain't that the truth. That's why I deleted my account.

But many young ones are addicted to social media. Facebook will take a hit, but it will promise to be good now, and will live on.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Boy ain't that the truth. That's why I deleted my account.

But many young ones are addicted to social media. Facebook will take a hit, but it will promise to be good now, and will live on.

I downloaded everything on my account and there was nothing. What they did have was conjecture (things that people I am friends with like, etc).

I think it is very sad when you see what many people post, it seems that many people are desperately lonely.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I downloaded everything on my account and there was nothing. What they did have was conjecture (things that people I am friends with like, etc).

I think it is very sad when you see what many people post, it seems that many people are desperately lonely.

“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.” - Henry David Thoreau - Walden

[zeek]

Pruitt is a one man environmental and ethical disaster https://www.npr.org/2018/04/03/59914...ics-violations

[zeek]

Trump who has cheated on all three wives, dodged the draft, had to pay out $20 million settlement for his scam university, refuses to release his taxes, and is under federal investigation for cheating in the 2016 federal election, just referred to his predecessor as "Cheatin' Obama". That's gold plated hypocrisy. Trump's "turn to Jesus" touted by Paula White and James Dobson was a scam by a master scam artist.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump who has cheated on all three wives, dodged the draft, had to pay out $20 million settlement for his scam university, refuses to release his taxes, and is under federal investigation for cheating in the 2016 federal election, just referred to his predecessor as "Cheatin' Obama". That's gold plated hypocrisy. Trump's "turn to Jesus" touted by Paula White and James Dobson was scam by a master scam artist.

He's just a baby Christian. That still lies like a medieval Christian.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

He's just a baby Christian. That still lies like a medieval Christian.

There's a serpent in every paradise!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Beloved Liberal Icons caring for your children ...

Your meme should show Zuckertrump. Facebook today said the personal information of up to 87 million people, most of them Americans, may have been improperly shared during the 2016 election with Cambridge Analytica, a political consulting firm connected to our beloved President Trump. The new figure sharply increased the company’s previous estimate of how many users’ information was harvested by Cambridge Analytica. For weeks, Facebook had said that the data of about 50 million users was at issue.

[zeek]

Where's the Immigration Crisis? U.S. Border Patrol Reports Illegal Border Crossings At Record Low
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuarta.../#754ec6f4b737

Trump was just overreacting to a story he heard on Fox News making him look bad cuz he signed the budget bill despite the fact that it didn't finance his wall. He doesn't care what it costs us or who he hurts to protect his gargantuan self-image.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Your meme should show Zuckertrump. Facebook today said the personal information of up to 87 million people, most of them Americans, may have been improperly shared during the 2016 election with Cambridge Analytica, a political consulting firm connected to our beloved President Trump. The new figure sharply increased the company’s previous estimate of how many users’ information was harvested by Cambridge Analytica. For weeks, Facebook had said that the data of about 50 million users was at issue.

Talk about a dissembling campaign of misinformation!

Zuckerberg now claims FB helped Trump!

Someone please tell Hillary that this is reason number #37 why she lost.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Talk about a dissembling campaign of misinformation!

Zuckerberg now claims FB helped Trump!

Someone please tell Hillary that this is reason number #37 why she lost.

No. Channel 4 News, a news program broadcast by the British public service, conducted a four-month investigation into Cambridge Analytica starting in November 2017. Alexander Nix, chief executive of Cambridge Analytica, in the third part of the series, stated that Cambridge Analytica "ran all the digital campaign" for Trump. Nix said they used communications that would be self destructive, leaving no incriminating evidence. This has been widely reported.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

No. Channel 4 News, a news program broadcast by the British public service, conducted a four-month investigation into Cambridge Analytica starting in November 2017. Alexander Nix, chief executive of Cambridge Analytica, in the third part of the series, stated that Cambridge Analytica "ran all the digital campaign" for Trump. Nix said they used communications that would be self destructive, leaving no incriminating evidence. This has been widely reported.

Well, if this is true it shows that the company knew that what they were doing was illegal and were planning to cover it up. That opens the door for RICO since by definition this would be a criminal conspiracy.

They better hope no one finds out. Because I would guess that there are some computer programmers working for the company that didn't sign up for 30 years in jail that would be willing to trade freedom for all the evidence.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Well, if this is true it shows that the company knew that what they were doing was illegal and were planning to cover it up. That opens the door for RICO since by definition this would be a criminal conspiracy.

They better hope no one finds out. Because I would guess that there are some computer programmers working for the company that didn't sign up for 30 years in jail that would be willing to trade freedom for all the evidence.

Yeah and I heard on the news that Facebook had some of their own people embedded in Cambridge Analytica helping them with the project. That's why Zuckerberg sounds more contrite then before and is saying they need to be government regulated and so forth. He's trying to get out in front of this.

Hey man, they were just doing God's work getting King Cyrus elected so he could help the Children of Israel [Evangelical Christianity] and get the Temple rebuilt in Jerusalem. Sometimes you've got to rob Pharoah for the greater good[God's eternal purpose]. Witness Lee taught us that, right?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Hey man, they were just doing God's work getting King Cyrus elected so he could help the Children of Israel [Evangelical Christianity] and get the Temple rebuilt in Jerusalem. Sometimes you've got to rob Pharoah for the greater good[God's eternal purpose]. Witness Lee taught us that, right?

Hi ZNP, what do you make of this?

Is zeek a legitimate prophet or a false prophet?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hi ZNP, what do you make of this?

Is zeek a legitimate prophet or a false prophet?

According to our dear brother Doug Krieger, on his Tribnet 7000 Facebook group (which I'm no longer in) bro zeek is a legit prophet.

Trump is not just a disruptor, he's also a bringer ; a bringer of the temple ; a bringer of Armageddon ; a bringer of Jesus in the clouds with power and glory.

Why? Because history is repeating itself. And today we're living like the days of King Cyrus. We're living Cyrus all over again.

How many times are we going to keep doing this? It's the very definition of insanity, so I'm told.

We can't live out the Bible like a bunch of Cargo Cultist's, and expect it to work out. It just doesn't work that way. Either God does it, or it will just be like another bunch of primitive primates mimicking ways to bring the cargo. Okay, for those that may not be familiar with the Cargo Cults, I link it here (Wiki doesn't do it justice, but it's a starter) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

Trump ain't Cyrus! Cyrus wasn't a clown. Read about Cyrus. He was ruthless. He was Persian, and Zoroastrian. And yes, in the story, God used him, for is favorite people to have a Holy Temple, a little place for God to have a tiny place, to come and visit his chosen race (is God a racist?).

Are we really wanting that all over again? Seriously? We really want the restoration of a teeny place for God to come to? Seriously?

But I have to admit that it would be so Trump like, for him to want to stand up in the finished temple and declare himself God.

So Trump voters !!!! Listen up !!! You voted for the son of perdition.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hi ZNP, what do you make of this?

Is zeek a legitimate prophet or a false prophet?

I think using "the greater good" to justify criminal behavior is simply Satan disguising himself as an angel of light.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Trump voters !!!! Listen up !!! You voted for the son of perdition.

Before anyone takes this seriously they might want to do a little more reading on the positions that Awareness has taken and espoused.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump is not just a disruptor, he's also a bringer ; a bringer of the temple ; a bringer of Armageddon ; a bringer of Jesus in the clouds with power and glory.

Wow! I missed out on the all that?

Originally Posted by awareness

So Trump voters !!!! Listen up !!! You voted for the son of perdition.

You have really gone off the deep end! The "son of perdition" apparently was Judas and perished long ago. (Jn 17.12)

You not only hate Trump, labeling him with the worst of epitaphs, but all of his voters too. You might want to consider forgiveness, since Jesus taught us "Forgive us ... as we forgive others."

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think using "the greater good" to justify criminal behavior is simply Satan disguising himself as an angel of light.

I don't think zeek is guilty of criminal behavior, I'm just asking if his prophecies are legit.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow! I missed out on the all that?


You have really gone off the deep end! The "son of perdition" apparently was Judas and perished long ago. (Jn 17.12)

2Th 2:3* Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;*
2Th 2:4* Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

2Th 2:3* Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;*
2Th 2:4* Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Wow I missed this! The Jews have rebuilt the temple and Trump has set himself down in it! You would have thought that would have been covered in the news.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wow I missed this! The Jews have rebuilt the temple and Trump has set himself down in it! You would have thought that would have been covered in the news.

I found it in one of your local papers ...

Bibi and the Christian Right Agree: Trump Is the New Cyrus the Great

How did you miss it?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I found it in one of your local papers ...

Bibi and the Christian Right Agree: Trump Is the New Cyrus the Great

How did you miss it?

Then bro zeek is a legit prophet ...

[awareness]

Trump says ‘pain’ from China tariffs will make US ‘much stronger’

I guess we're so tired of winning that we need some pain. It will make us stronger. So says Spanky.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/38...-much-stronger

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump says ‘pain’ from China tariffs will make US ‘much stronger’

I guess we're so tired of winning that we need some pain. It will make us stronger. So says Spanky.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/38...-much-stronger

The US constitutes 2/3 of China's exports, whereas China imports a tiny fraction of US GDP. We can survive a trade war with China, they can't survive a trade war with us. However, they could use the nuclear option, try to redeem all of their US bonds. If they did that our currency would crash, inflation would skyrocket, our bond market would collapse, and their major trading partner would go bust. The other option for China, of course, is to stop manipulating their currency and be a better WTO partner.

During the 70s it made sense to have a very favorable trade arrangement with China, that was when their trade amounted to $2 billion. But now that their trade amounts to $633 billion it is time to be a more equal partner. I agree with Trump.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The US constitutes 2/3 of China's exports, whereas China imports a tiny fraction of US GDP. We can survive a trade war with China, they can't survive a trade war with us. However, they could use the nuclear option, try to redeem all of their US bonds. If they did that our currency would crash, inflation would skyrocket, our bond market would collapse, and their major trading partner would go bust. The other option for China, of course, is to stop manipulating their currency and be a better WTO partner.

During the 70s it made sense to have a very favorable trade arrangement with China, that was when their trade amounted to $2 billion. But now that their trade amounts to $633 billion it is time to be a more equal partner. I agree with Trump.

Or China could crimp our access to their rare earth metals, needed in everything from cell phones, defense, satellites, and most technology. That's another nuclear option at China's disposal.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Or China could crimp our access to their rare earth metals, needed in everything from cell phones, defense, satellites, and most technology. That's another nuclear option at China's disposal.

China doesn't have a monopoly on rare earth metals. At best they have the best price. The result of a trade war would be the development of other suppliers. The risk to China is manifold:

1. Do they ramp down production and shutter some mining operations?
2. Does a competitor get an inside shot at selling to the US and perhaps taking future business away as well.

The worst case for us is that we have to pay extra for our Lithium or some other metal. Instead of $100 for a battery, maybe it will now be $105. We'll survive.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

China doesn't have a monopoly on rare earth metals. At best they have the best price. The result of a trade war would be the development of other suppliers. The risk to China is manifold:

1. Do they ramp down production and shutter some mining operations?
2. Does a competitor get an inside shot at selling to the US and perhaps taking future business away as well.

The worst case for us is that we have to pay extra for our Lithium or some other metal. Instead of $100 for a battery, maybe it will now be $105. We'll survive.

From The Hill :
China's secret trade war option: A rare earth embargo
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...rgo/ar-AAvnYmE

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

From The Hill :
China's secret trade war option: A rare earth embargo
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...rgo/ar-AAvnYmE

https://mrdata.usgs.gov/mineral-resources/ree.html

[ZNPaaneah]

I think a lot of people are missing the key point in this whole Pruitt "scandal". Trump, who does know about the market value of real estate, says that the market for upscale condo in the best DC neighborhoods is $50 a day! That is great news! This puts these very nice condos into my price range, I need to think about possible vacation to DC.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

https://mrdata.usgs.gov/mineral-resources/ree.html

So rare earth metals is a misnomer?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So rare earth metals is a misnomer?

Gold is a "rare earth metal", doesn't mean there is only one country on Earth where it is found. It could be that there is one country that has a very well developed mining operation (S. Africa). Same with oil. There is a remarkable amount of oil found in the Middle East (many theories on why that is, no answers) but oil can be found everywhere in the world.

Why would the US military allow themselves to be dependent on China? The only possible valid reason is that it is economic, but we can find the same materials elsewhere at a higher price.

The problem with what Trump is doing is that he needs the European union to join the US if we are to prevail. If I know this then certainly many in the State department know this as well. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and perhaps by announcing these tariffs unilaterally it provides cover for smaller and more vulnerable countries to join us without becoming a target of Chinese ire.

I have yet to hear one person argue that China is a good actor and is undeserving of being blamed for unfair trade practices. No one is disputing the fundamental issue, the only real debate is over how to accomplish this. Since no one up to this point has been successful I would completely tune out the Democrats (16 years of Clinton and Obama with nada). I give the Republicans a pass since both Bush's were involved in wars that needed coalitions and didn't need to start a trade war at the same time.

I think prior to that the primary goal of foreign policy was to encourage China to trade with the rest of the world and enter the WTO

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Gold is a "rare earth metal", doesn't mean there is only one country on Earth where it is found. It could be that there is one country that has a very well developed mining operation (S. Africa). Same with oil. There is a remarkable amount of oil found in the Middle East (many theories on why that is, no answers) but oil can be found everywhere in the world.

Why would the US military allow themselves to be dependent on China? The only possible valid reason is that it is economic, but we can find the same materials elsewhere at a higher price.

The problem with what Trump is doing is that he needs the European union to join the US if we are to prevail. If I know this then certainly many in the State department know this as well. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and perhaps by announcing these tariffs unilaterally it provides cover for smaller and more vulnerable countries to join us without becoming a target of Chinese ire.

I have yet to hear one person argue that China is a good actor and is undeserving of being blamed for unfair trade practices. No one is disputing the fundamental issue, the only real debate is over how to accomplish this. Since no one up to this point has been successful I would completely tune out the Democrats (16 years of Clinton and Obama with nada). I give the Republicans a pass since both Bush's were involved in wars that needed coalitions and didn't need to start a trade war at the same time.

I think prior to that the primary goal of foreign policy was to encourage China to trade with the rest of the world and enter the WTO

Right now the tariffs are just talk and bluster. Both Trump and Jinping are like Puffer fish, trying to look bigger than they actually are.

Say what you like about the demmies, as in Clinton and Obama, but China is a sovereign country. And it's big, and owns 1.2 Trillion in U.S. Treasury Bonds. Didn't we borrow from China to fund Bush's wars?

Obviously being soft, like the demmies, didn't work. China just grew stronger and stronger.

Right now it's all bluffing, with Trump even going so far as to admit it will hurt us. But the pain, Spanky says, will make us stronger.

Maybe you're more informed. I read that, mining rare earth metals is cost prohibitive, and not profitable to energy companies. But state run mining can undercut the market. Which is why China is presently our primacy source for rare earth metals. So maybe rare earth metals can be found everywhere, but getting them is the problem. China, being state run can get them.

But like I said. It's all bluster right now. Talk, BIG TALK, and talk. Maybe being tough will work. That's where Spanky might excel. He's good at bullying.

We'll see. Anything to keep the loose impulsive cannon away from the button.

MAGA, is really all about MTGA. Let's see if he is. Time will tell.

[awareness]

'I'm A Holocaust Survivor—Trump's America Feels Like Germany Before Nazis Took Over'
www.newsweek.com/im-holocaust-survivor-trumps-america-feels-germany-nazis-took-over-876965

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

'I'm A Holocaust Survivor—Trump's America Feels Like Germany Before Nazis Took Over'
www.newsweek.com/im-holocaust-survivor-trumps-america-feels-germany-nazis-took-over-876965

Not one of these Holocaust survivors is talking about today, rather as children in the 40's.

This is how Fake News Newsweek manipulates stories to say that these folks are reliving the Holocaust today.

[Ohio]

For those who still respect Muller ...

Sunday on New York AM 970 radio’s “The Cats Roundtable,” Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz ripped special counsel Robert Mueller, calling him “a partisan and zealot.”

“I think Mueller is a zealot,” Dershowitz told host John Catsimatidis. “I don’t think he cares whether he hurts Democrats or Republicans, but he’s a partisan and a zealot. Look, he’s the guy who kept four innocent people in prison for many years in order to protect the cover of Whitey Bulger as an FBI informer. … Those of us in Boston don’t have such a high regard for Mueller because we remember this story. The government had to pay out tens of millions of dollars because Whitey Bulger, a notorious mass murderer, became a government informer against the mafia.

“[T]hese four people – two of them died in jail, and two of them spent long, long periods of time in jail. And that’s regarded in Boston as one of the great scandals of modern judicial history. And Mueller was right at the center of it,“ he recalled.

[zeek]

Drain the swamp!
Agents Raid Office of Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen in Connection With Stormy Daniels Payments.
A U.S. Attorney from Southern District of NY that Trump appointed, executed the search warrants. [That could explain why Trump called it disgraceful. That guy was supposed to do his bidding instead of executing the law like Sessions was supposed to.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-rai...ice-1523306297

Upon hearing about the raid, Trump, who identifies the country's interests with his own, went on a tirade "It's an attack on our country in a true sense. It's an attack on what we all stand for." He seems to think we all stand for keeping Stormy quiet. He's coming apart and it's not pretty. Of course he went off at Sessions again. He's ruminating. There are many national and world-wide crises that require the full and immediate attention of a rational president. he's not particularly coherent on a good day. I think he needs a leave of absence so he can attend to his personal affairs.

[zeek]

"No collusion, no collusion, no collusion."

Russian elite invested nearly $100 million in Trump buildings.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates...rump-property/


BREAKING NEWS
A Ukrainian magnate paid Donald Trump’s charity $150,000 in 2015 after Mr. Trump gave a video talk. Robert Mueller is said to be investigating. The special counsel is investigating a payment made to President Trump’s foundation by a Ukrainian steel magnate for a talk during the campaign, according to three people briefed on the matter, as part of a broader examination of streams of foreign money to Mr. Trump and his associates in the years leading up to the election.

I repeat "No collusion."

On a side note, it is sad to see Evangelical Christianity on the wrong side of history.

[ZNPaaneah]

A review of a CFPB database obtained by the AP through a Freedom of Information request shows that the bureau issued an average of two to four enforcement actions a month under former Director Richard Cordray, President Obama's appointee. But the database shows zero enforcement actions have been taken since Nov. 21, 2017, three days before Cordray resigned.

Before Mulvaney, the bureau used enforcement actions to extract billions of dollars in relief for consumers from financial companies and to stop companies from doing harm. Bank of America was ordered to return $727 million to consumers for deceptive credit card practices in 2015 — the largest award in the bureau's history — but the CFPB has issued dozens of smaller actions to get relief for student borrowers, victims of debt collection companies and bank customers.

In the roughly seven years it has been in existence, the bureau has returned $3.97 billion in cash back to American consumers through enforcement actions and an additional $7.93 billion in other types of relief, such as lower loan balances or debt relief, based on the CFPB's records. The bureau estimates roughly one of every 10 Americans has received some sort of reimbursement or relief due to the bureau's enforcement work since it was created.

[ZNPaaneah]

Is this what Trump means?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Is this what Trump means?

Do you have any concerns that attorney-client privilege has been abolished?

Even if prosecuting mob bosses, they would not breech it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Do you have any concerns that attorney-client privilege has been abolished?

Even if prosecuting mob bosses, they would not breech it.

I think the FBI is concerned with violations of campaign finance law.

No one has been convicted of any crime yet. Seizing records is not a violation. If it falls under attorney client privilege then they can argue that with the judge who can decide if this is the case, if so it would be excluded from any trial.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Drain the swamp!
Agents Raid Office of Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen in Connection With Stormy Daniels Payments.
A U.S. Attorney from Southern District of NY that Trump appointed, executed the search warrants. [That could explain why Trump called it disgraceful. That guy was supposed to do his bidding instead of executing the law like Sessions was supposed to.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-rai...ice-1523306297

Upon hearing about the raid, Trump, who identifies the country's interests with his own, went on a tirade "It's an attack on our country in a true sense. It's an attack on what we all stand for." He seems to think we all stand for keeping Stormy quiet. He's coming apart and it's not pretty. Of course he went off at Sessions again. He's ruminating. There are many national and world-wide crises that require the full and immediate attention of a rational president. he's not particularly coherent on a good day. I think he needs a leave of absence so he can attend to his personal affairs.

This investigation is all fake news from Russia. The raid didn't happen. And even Trump's response was all fake. There's actually nothing really going on at all.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think the FBI is concerned with violations of campaign finance law.

No one has been convicted of any crime yet. Seizing records is not a violation. If it falls under attorney client privilege then they can argue that with the judge who can decide if this is the case, if so it would be excluded from any trial.

Even if a judge excludes it, and we all know this whole thing will never go to court, the docs will get leaked to the Press and twisted to smear Trump.

Just in time for the Midterms.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

This investigation is all fake news from Russia. The raid didn't happen. And even Trump's response was all fake. There's actually nothing really going on at all.

I saw a "convincing" youtube that Parkland was all fake. Never happened.

Then just yesterday, one guy supposedly shot 5x at close range with a military style AR-15 rifle with high power rounds was released from the hospital.

There is good reason to be skeptical of all news.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There is good reason to be skeptical of all news.

Yes! Yes! I realized that way back when all the news went all in for all the reasons Bush & Co. -- Cheney - Project for New American Century -- gave for preempting Iraq.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Even if a judge excludes it, and we all know this whole thing will never go to court, the docs will get leaked to the Press and twisted to smear Trump.

Just in time for the Midterms.

If that happens Trump can argue corruption, fake news, and drain the swamp. This will motivate his base to come out and vote.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If that happens Trump can argue corruption, fake news, and drain the swamp. This will motivate his base to come out and vote.

Like Trump said, he could shoot somebody on Fifth Ave and his ratings would go up ... specially if it was a man of color. But I think the Evangelical supporters would turn on him if he shot an innocent Evangelical Christian.

I'm wondering when all the politicians, on both sides, specially the pubbies, turn and consider him a liability.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm wondering when all the politicians, on both sides, specially the pubbies, turn and consider him a liability.

Lots of politicians on both sides are glad we don't have some shiite wimp in the white house anymore.

[awareness]

Talking about fake news :

The biggest Black Lives Matter page on Facebook is a FAKE and has raked in more than $100,000 and 'run by a WHITE Australian man'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...book-FAKE.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Even if prosecuting mob bosses, they would not breech it.

Not true. Even Tom Hagen told Kay he couldn't accept the letter to Michael because a Judge would rule that indicated he knew where the fugitive from the Law was and he could be prosecuted. No attorney client privilege for Michael and Tom if there is the suggestion of the attorney being involved in a crime.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Not true. Even Tom Hagen told Kay he couldn't accept the letter to Michael because a Judge would rule that indicated he knew where the fugitive from the Law was and he could be prosecuted. No attorney client privilege for Michael and Tom if there is the suggestion of the attorney being involved in a crime.

How about something based on real life.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How about something based on real life.

Lawyer convicted of racketeering in scam Florida 'charity' for veterans
(https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...flna8C11381423)

2 Former Judges, Lawyer Convicted in Corruption Case
Courts: Three found guilty of mail fraud, conspiracy to commit racketeering. Attorney had showered San Diego jurists with gifts. They gave him special treatment.
October 19, 1996
(http://articles.latimes.com/1996-10-...orruption-case)

Ex-Bryan Cave Lawyer Convicted of Fraud in Maxim Deal Is Disbarred
Newkirk’s monthlong fraud trial in late 2015 drew headlines across a broad spectrum of New York press and many lawyers followed its twists and turns. (https://www.law.com/newyorklawjourna...20180310201815)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Lawyer convicted of racketeering in scam Florida 'charity' for veterans

I didn't see where the Atty-client privilege was breached.

Anyways, not good for the US. Not good for the 4th Amend.

But all you Trump haters can rejoice. But don't blame him if things go bad.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I didn't see where the Atty-client privilege was breached.

Anyways, not good for the US. Not good for the 4th Amend.

But all you Trump haters can rejoice. But don't blame him if things go bad.

No one said that Attorney client privilege has been breached. He is not exempt from a search warrant by the FBI issued by a judge at the request of the Justice dept.

However, before the documents seized are used in a trial lawyers not part of the prosecution will examine and remove anything that would violate attorney privilege.

[ZNPaaneah]

(c) A lawyer may reveal client confidences and secrets, to the extent reasonably necessary:
(1) to prevent a criminal act that the lawyer reasonably believes is likely to result in death or substantial bodily harm absent disclosure of the client’s secrets or confidences by the lawyer; or
(2) to prevent the bribery or intimidation of witnesses, jurors, court officials, or other persons who are involved in proceedings before a tribunal if the lawyer reasonably believes that such acts are likely to result absent disclosure of the client’s confidences or secrets by the lawyer.
(d) When a client has used or is using a lawyer’s services to further a crime or fraud, the lawyer may reveal client confidences and secrets, to the extent reasonably necessary:
(1) to prevent the client from committing the crime or fraud if it is reasonably certain to result in substantial injury to the financial interests or property of another; or
(2) to prevent, mitigate or rectify substantial injury to the financial interests or property of another that is reasonably certain to result or has resulted from the client’s commission of the crime or fraud.

Trump's claim that the FBI act violates all that we stand for in the US is idiotic. His crying about Attorney client privilege is also idiotic. The FBI act doesn't violate any legitimate protection. Likewise, if fraud has been committed by Trump or Cohen that is not protected.

[zeek]

Self-draining the swamp...

"House Speaker Paul Ryan’s announcement Wednesday that he would not seek re-election adds a big name to what was already shaping up to be a near-record year of seat turnovers in the U.S. House of Representatives. More House members are choosing not to run for re-election to that body than at any time in the past quarter-century – including a record number of Republicans, according to a Pew Research Center analysis."

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ction-in-2018/

[ZNPaaneah]

I think when it is all said and done Trump will wind up being the highest rated president in history, bar none. I don't mean that history will speak favorably of him, only that he will have dominated the ratings game like no other President. As they say, Politics is show business for ugly people.

[zeek]

"Decades before he led the F.B.I.’s investigation into whether members of Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election, Comey was a career prosecutor who helped dismantle the Gambino crime family; and he doesn’t hesitate in these pages to draw a direct analogy between the Mafia bosses he helped pack off to prison years ago and the current occupant of the Oval Office."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/12/b...39ries&ref=cta

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Decades before he led the F.B.I.’s investigation into whether members of Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election, Comey was a career prosecutor who helped dismantle the Gambino crime family; and he doesn’t hesitate in these pages to draw a direct analogy between the Mafia bosses he helped pack off to prison years ago and the current occupant of the Oval Office."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/12/b...39ries&ref=cta

I appreciate that he has gone and given us his eyewitness testimony to what is happening behind the curtain. I realize by doing so he has opened himself up to being savaged by political operatives. I find it absurd to focus on any mud that is on him as though that somehow disqualifies his account. From what I can gather Trump and his closest allies are caked in mud. If they can talk and tweet then he also should be allowed to respond.

This emphasis of Trump on "Loyalty" is indicative, perhaps the biggest warning sign, of a personality cult leader. I am reminded of Gregor Strasser when he left Hitler's party. He should have warned about the cult influence, instead he left quietly and apologetically, only to be killed in the night of the long knives. From that point on Hitler was demanding loyalty and it was a full blown cult movement.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This emphasis of Trump on "Loyalty" is indicative, perhaps the biggest warning sign, of a personality cult leader. I am reminded of Gregor Strasser when he left Hitler's party. He should have warned about the cult influence, instead he left quietly and apologetically, only to be killed in the night of the long knives. From that point on Hitler was demanding loyalty and it was a full blown cult movement.

Bringing up Hitler reminds me of WWII. It doesn't take much to ignite a world war.

Trump is as we speak sending the largest armada of warships to Syria since Bush's invasion of Iraq. Iraq became a war, could we be seeing the same for Syria? Only this time we'll be coming against both Russia and Iran. All actors wielding nukes.

WWIII anyone? Then Spanky-Lying-Pee-Brain will finally be great. He'll be the first in history to start WWIII.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This emphasis of Trump on "Loyalty" is indicative, perhaps the biggest warning sign, of a personality cult leader. I am reminded of Gregor Strasser when he left Hitler's party. He should have warned about the cult influence, instead he left quietly and apologetically, only to be killed in the night of the long knives. From that point on Hitler was demanding loyalty and it was a full blown cult movement.

The movement is less about loyalty to a person and more about loyalty to principle. Clearly, our POTUS is a flawed man in many ways but what he has exposed is a very disconcerting ruling class in the US government and in collusion with a media elite that considers him to be a parasite that must be destroyed and discharged. He is a disrupter to the order of things. Those who voted for him did not do it because he is a saint, like Mike Pence is considered by many but precisely because he represents a change from that ruling class in DC.

I think we knew that politicians and media would find little ground to work with or give credit to Trump. He says the sky is blue and his detractors will argue it is red. However, the most alarming thing that I did not grasp until recently is the lengths to which our intelligence apparatus were willing to become complicit in that discrediting mission and to get rid of him. Every time Brennen, Clapper, Comey open their mouths it just confirms what has become apparent. I find that creepy and the one aspect that every American should be alarmed about.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

The movement is less about loyalty to a person and more about loyalty to principle.

I would say that this was Gregor Strasser's viewpoint. There were many in the movement that held this thought, but once Strasser was out it was no longer about a principle but about Hitler.

Originally Posted by Drake

Clearly, our POTUS is a flawed man in many ways but what he has exposed is a very disconcerting ruling class in the US government and in collusion with a media elite that considers him to be a parasite that must be destroyed and discharged. He is a disrupter to the order of things. Those who voted for him did not do it because he is a saint, like Mike Pence is considered by many but precisely because he represents a change from that ruling class in DC.

Really? This is when you became disconcerted? Not when the Senate shrugged off the Box 13 scandal with LBJ? Not when they covered up the JFK assassination? You weren't bothered when the OPEC was able to drive Carter out and replace him with Reagan and entire cadre of oil men? 911, a false flag attack designed to put our military in charge of the world's oil and gas supply and to force through massive funding to overhaul our military with drones and robots, that didn't bother you!

Saying that "Trump is a flawed man" is the most generous way of putting it. He is a child, he thought he was the big cheese but really he was simply a big fish for a small pond. He is completely and totally out of his depth and is overwhelmed by this job.

Originally Posted by Drake

I think we knew that politicians and media would find little ground to work with or give credit to Trump. He says the sky is blue and his detractors will argue it is red. However, the most alarming thing that I did not grasp until recently is the lengths to which our intelligence apparatus were willing to become complicit in that discrediting mission and to get rid of him. Every time Brennen, Clapper, Comey open their mouths it just confirms what has become apparent. I find that creepy and the one aspect that every American should be alarmed about.

Drake

What alarms me is the extent to which supporters of Trump are willing to dismiss the cooler, wiser heads of those who are experts in their field and given their lives to US national security.

38% of Germans voted for Hitler at his best showing, roughly the same for Trump. I don't think this is a knock against Germans, rather I think this shows that those who are suffering the most in the midst of a great depression want change at any price and are willing to "burn down the establishment" to get it.

[awareness]

So Evangelicals, including bro Ohio, supported Trump because of abortions, and now Trump paid for an abortion of his love child :

Trump's top Republican fundraiser quits in disgrace after admitting $1.6 MILLION hush money payment to Playboy model for aborting his baby - in deal made by president's attorney Michael Cohen

And Trump signed the NDA with same names he used for Stormy :

Signed agreement was between 'David Dennison' and 'Peggy Peterson' – the same names used for Trump and Stormy Daniels

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mp-Stormy.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Evangelicals, including bro Ohio, supported Trump because of abortions, and now Trump paid for an abortion of his love child :

Trump's top Republican fundraiser quits in disgrace after admitting $1.6 MILLION hush money payment to Playboy model for aborting his baby - in deal made by president's attorney Michael Cohen

And Trump signed the NDA with same names he used for Stormy :

Signed agreement was between 'David Dennison' and 'Peggy Peterson' – the same names used for Trump and Stormy Daniels

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mp-Stormy.html

Wow! He quit in disgrace? I didn't know these guys felt shame. Amazing.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I would say that this was Gregor Strasser's viewpoint. There were many in the movement that held this thought, but once Strasser was out it was no longer about a principle but about Hitler.



Really? This is when you became disconcerted? Not when the Senate shrugged off the Box 13 scandal with LBJ? Not when they covered up the JFK assassination? You weren't bothered when the OPEC was able to drive Carter out and replace him with Reagan and entire cadre of oil men? 911, a false flag attack designed to put our military in charge of the world's oil and gas supply and to force through massive funding to overhaul our military with drones and robots, that didn't bother you!

Saying that "Trump is a flawed man" is the most generous way of putting it. He is a child, he thought he was the big cheese but really he was simply a big fish for a small pond. He is completely and totally out of his depth and is overwhelmed by this job.



What alarms me is the extent to which supporters of Trump are willing to dismiss the cooler, wiser heads of those who are experts in their field and given their lives to US national security.

38% of Germans voted for Hitler at his best showing, roughly the same for Trump. I don't think this is a knock against Germans, rather I think this shows that those who are suffering the most in the midst of a great depression want change at any price and are willing to "burn down the establishment" to get it.

How dare Drake wade into the swamp here and introduce another perspective?

Doesn't he know our flawed POTUS is the reincarnation of Hitler?

I find it truly remarkable that someone could view 911 as a false flag, and not connect the dots here and see the deep state coup.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How dare Drake wade into the swamp here and introduce another perspective?

Doesn't he know our flawed POTUS is the reincarnation of Hitler?

The term Hitler is extremely controversial because of how twisted and evil his regime became. But they didn't head down that fork in the road until they made the movement a full blown personality cult. I am not comparing Trump to the Hitler that ordered the holocaust. I am comparing him to the man who was a "genius" at propaganda, who was angry at the humiliating loss in WWI, who was essentially an idiot, who didn't care about policy, only grabbing power, and who clearly had serious issues with women and incest.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I find it truly remarkable that someone could view 911 as a false flag, and not connect the dots here and see the deep state coup.

I see a deep state coup that took place when JFK was assassinated. This also led to Nixon resigning (listen to the Nixon tapes -- he admits he couldn't put the blame on Hunt because of the "whole Bay of Pigs thing"). Nixon installs Ford, the guy from the Warren commission to take over as he leaves.

When I connect the dots I see the oil industry having a huge impact on our foreign policy and White House from the time they removed Carter. Prior to that they began to make major inroads into foreign policy with Halliburton and LBJ and they funded Nixon's campaigns discreetly.

What I am completely incapable of seeing hard as I try is Donald Trump coming to the rescue. What is he going to do, yell "urine trouble!" Should we start calling him Captain underpants? What we need is Teddy Roosevelt. Trump is something we accidentally stepped in and the sooner we scrape it off our shoe the better.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The term Hitler is extremely controversial because of how twisted and evil his regime became. But they didn't head down that fork in the road until they made the movement a full blown personality cult. I am not comparing Trump to the Hitler that ordered the holocaust. I am comparing him to the man who was a "genius" at propaganda, who was angry at the humiliating loss in WWI, who was essentially an idiot, who didn't care about policy, only grabbing power, and who clearly had serious issues with women and incest.

I see a deep state coup that took place when JFK was assassinated. This also led to Nixon resigning (listen to the Nixon tapes -- he admits he couldn't put the blame on Hunt because of the "whole Bay of Pigs thing"). Nixon installs Ford, the guy from the Warren commission to take over as he leaves.

When I connect the dots I see the oil industry having a huge impact on our foreign policy and White House from the time they removed Carter. Prior to that they began to make major inroads into foreign policy with Halliburton and LBJ and they funded Nixon's campaigns discreetly.

What I am completely incapable of seeing hard as I try is Donald Trump coming to the rescue. What is he going to do, yell "urine trouble!" Should we start calling him Captain underpants? What we need is Teddy Roosevelt. Trump is something we accidentally stepped in and the sooner we scrape it off our shoe the better.

Even the great and honorable James Comey has declared the Dossier salacious and unverified, but since your reputable NY Times has published it, we now declare it to be historical "fact."

And your comparisons with Hitler are likewise "justified." (At least on Alt-Views where your audience is overwhelming supportive.)

And as if the waters needed further muddying, let's throw Dicky and Teddy in the midst.

But let me be excused while we return to our regularly scheduled programming.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Even the great and honorable James Comey has declared the Dossier salacious and unverified, but since your reputable NY Times has published it, we now declare it to be historical "fact."

It doesn't matter. If there is no there there, then in the end it will be a major campaign issue to get Trump and his allies elected and reelected. They have had Cohen under surveillance for months, if there is nothing there then the FBI raid approved by NY State attorney General will be another big scandal Trump can trumpet.

On the flip side if by some chance there is something criminal on Cohen they have it still won't matter, he won't flip, since he has claimed "he would take a bullet for Trump".

And Trump's pardon of Libby for outing US intelligence officers, that is not a desperate attempt to signal to Manafort to stay strong cause he will pardon him, no that is the supremely confident middle finger to Comey.

Besides, firing Comey is not obstruction of justice, he could even fire Rosenstein and then Mueller. Unfortunately he can't fire the NY DA, which has a copy of whatever they needed to get the warrant on Cohen, nor will he be able to stop that investigation, or take all the information they have.

The good news for Trump is that "he has a different recollection" about what happened than Comey's account. There should be plenty of witnesses and tape recordings to verify that. Trump has them right where he wants them, all he needs to do is pull out the tapes that he and Cohen are so famous for, prove Comey is "lyin", that in turn proves his claim that this is a deep state set up, exposes the FBI, and will really help drain that swamp.

And that is the context of starting the war in Syria.

[Drake]

-1
ZNP> And that is the context of starting the war in Syria.

The beast gassed his own people including women and chidren. Do you think UK and France don’t know that too? Or are you suggesting it’s not a worthwhile fight?

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1
ZNP> And that is the context of starting the war in Syria.

The beast gassed his own people including women and chidren. Do you think UK and France don’t know that too? Or are you suggesting it’s not a worthwhile fight?

Why is it our fight? Are we the police of the world? America is not innocent when it comes to chemical warfare. We looked the other way when Saddam gassed the Iranians. We even provided the gas.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

Why is it our fight? Are we the police of the world? America is not innocent when it comes to chemical warfare. We looked the other way when Saddam gassed the Iranians. We even provided the gas.

I believe it is important for several reasons.

It is our vital national interests to contain conflict.

It is our moral responsibility to reduce the capabilities of despots to commit atrocities. If he will gas his own people he will gas us.

It is in our interests to align with Gods interest concerning Israel.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

And that is the context of starting the war in Syria.

Trump has been under attack since the day of his surprise election victory.

Every day in the news has brought new accusations.

Every action which Trump has taken to date could then be construed as a "wag the dog" mission to distract us from these "accusations."

ZNP, perhaps your comments here are just "senior moments." I understand!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It doesn't matter. If there is no there there, then in the end it will be a major campaign issue to get Trump and his allies elected and reelected. They have had Cohen under surveillance for months, if there is nothing there then the FBI raid approved by NY State attorney General will be another big scandal Trump can trumpet.

Either wishful thinking or blissful ignorance.

The first target they took down was General Flynn. Never convicted of a crime. He was charged with lying to the FBI while not even under oath or represented by counsel. It is a process crime, in other words there was no crime until the FBI talked to him. Peter Strzok later reported that Flynn was being forthright and honest. Flynn pled out to save his family. What happened to this former general should scare all of us. (And where was the GoFundMe sympathy to pay his legal bills and loss of pension?)

Then the Muller attack team was launched, looking for a crime to impeach Trump. Forget about the Russian collusion, which was a farce known by all. Since then every person who ever knew Trump was officially "under surveillance" by Muller's team, Melania and Barron included.

I say let Muller impeach Trump. The House will flip in November and Pelosi will lick her chops. All current House investigations into real criminal activity will end. The House will eventually vote to impeach. The Senate, however, which needs 67 votes, will never indict. (Looks like Joe Manchin in WV might not even get reelected.) The whole charade will end like the Starr investigation.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1
ZNP> And that is the context of starting the war in Syria.

The beast gassed his own people including women and chidren. Do you think UK and France don’t know that too? Or are you suggesting it’s not a worthwhile fight?

Drake

No. I am merely stating a fact, the context in which we are getting involved in this conflict is one in which our "leader" is highly compromised.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump has been under attack since the day of his surprise election victory.

Every day in the news has brought new accusations.

Every action which Trump has taken to date could then be construed as a "wag the dog" mission to distract us from these "accusations."

ZNP, perhaps your comments here are just "senior moments." I understand!

This is why it is a disaster to have someone leading this country with so much extra baggage. I am well aware of the fact that any President will come under political attack for the entire duration of their term. But the attacks on Trump have been multiplied greatly due to his own faults.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Either wishful thinking or blissful ignorance.

The first target they took down was General Flynn. Never convicted of a crime. He was charged with lying to the FBI while not even under oath or represented by counsel. It is a process crime, in other words there was no crime until the FBI talked to him. Peter Strzok later reported that Flynn was being forthright and honest. Flynn pled out to save his family. What happened to this former general should scare all of us. (And where was the GoFundMe sympathy to pay his legal bills and loss of pension?)

Then the Muller attack team was launched, looking for a crime to impeach Trump. Forget about the Russian collusion, which was a farce known by all. Since then every person who ever knew Trump was officially "under surveillance" by Muller's team, Melania and Barron included.

I say let Muller impeach Trump. The House will flip in November and Pelosi will lick her chops. All current House investigations into real criminal activity will end. The House will eventually vote to impeach. The Senate, however, which needs 67 votes, will never indict. (Looks like Joe Manchin in WV might not even get reelected.) The whole charade will end like the Starr investigation.

I will gather a pile of stones in the event your prophecy is not fulfilled.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

I believe it is important for several reasons.

It is our vital national interests to contain conflict.

It is our moral responsibility to reduce the capabilities of despots to commit atrocities. If he will gas his own people he will gas us.

It is in our interests to align with Gods interest concerning Israel.

Drake

Can we all just stop the charade. We are not fighting this war to contain conflict, or because of atrocities, or because of a concern to bless Israel. We are fighting because this is where the oil is (also natural gas). 911 was simply an excuse to put our military there. Prior to that Bush (Sr) suckered Saddam into invading Kuwait as an excuse to put our military there (no way Saudi Arabia would have backed us if they didn't feel extremely threatened). Russia is not there as some kind of anti Israel atheist motivated war, but simply to protect their vital interests regarding the oil. China is making inroads with the broad coalition of Islamic states for the exact same reason. Europe is there for the same reason. State sponsored terrorism is there to fight against these superpowers who they see as usurping and pillaging their land. Oil transformed the US from an agricultural economy to a superpower. Why hasn't it done the same for the Middle East? Because we don't want them to use their oil, we want them to export it to us.

For those who take issue with this position can you answer a very simple question. These smart missiles cost approx $1.5 million each. They shot over 100, so the missiles alone cost $150 million. That is simply the tip of the iceberg when you look at the cost of planning, surveillance, sending in the ships, etc. So this little strike certainly cost over $1 billion when everything is taken into account. So my question is how much money is being spent on helping the people? We are spending billions killing them because of their inhumane treatment, yet at the same time we are strengthening our wall to make sure the refugees don't come here. So can you explain how this fits in the context of "our moral obligation"?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is why it is a disaster to have someone leading this country with so much extra baggage. I am well aware of the fact that any President will come under political attack for the entire duration of their term. But the attacks on Trump have been multiplied greatly due to his own faults.

No, this is why a fair and honest Press is so crucial to our republic.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We are spending billions killing them because of their inhumane treatment, yet at the same time we are strengthening our wall to make sure the refugees don't come here. So can you explain how this fits in the context of "our moral obligation"?

Trump Derangement Syndrome explains everything.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I will gather a pile of stones in the event your prophecy is not fulfilled.

I thought you liberals held the exclusive rights to tolerance and moral obligations?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Can we all just stop the charade. We are not fighting this war to contain conflict, or because of atrocities, or because of a concern to bless Israel. We are fighting because this is where the oil is (also natural gas)...........State sponsored terrorism is there to fight against these superpowers who they see as usurping and pillaging their land. Oil transformed the US from an agricultural economy to a superpower. Why hasn't it done the same for the Middle East? Because we don't want them to use their oil, we want them to export it to us.

ZNP,

Your arguments do not align with the facts. Syria does not contribute significantly to the world supply of oil or gas.... oil from Syria contributes one half of one percent to the world supply. A big deal to Syria but not to the rest of the world. Syria ranks 53rd in natural gas production lagging behind notable superpowers such as East Timor, Madagascar, and Equatorial Guinea! Second if oil was the primary enabler of becoming a super power then big oil producers like Saudi Arabia would have become a super power a long time ago. They haven’t. Neither has UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Venezuela, so oil may be a factor but it is not the primary reason superpowers gain their powers. A superpower is one because they can project power. I agree that a bunch of energy is needed in a superpower economy but what is happening in Syria is not related to energy.

Which brings me to the point bolded above. State sponsored terrorism as an explanation for gassing one owns people is an incoherent strategy for ridding intruders. Especially one that just announced they (the intruders) were leaving! There are different reasons for a state sponsoring terrorism but they all appear to be offensive in nature not defensive, that is they want to strengthen their power, expand it, or advance their ideology. The notion that a state sponsors terrorism against its own people or other people so that they can go back to living a life in peace is also irrational. That would be akin to playing checkers.... rather the game being played is chess.

A biblical explanation is the most compatible with all the facts and with biblical prophecy which is why Israel invariably shows up in the discussion. There is a spiritual battle taking place as shown in Daniel. Much of Islam awaits the hidden imam, the final Mahdi, the one who will bring peace in the Occulation which aligns very well with our understanding of Antichrist and all his doings. Iran, a major state sponsor of terrorism, has no intruders on its land and will always respond to opposition to its aggression with something like “ we will eliminate Israel in 8 minutes” thereby showing the true objective of their going ons. All the conflicts, particularly in and around the Levant, are so that God can gain remaining fruit from Israel at His return according to Zechariah 12:10, Dan 7:13, and Revelation 1:7.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

I believe it is important for several reasons.

It is our vital national interests to contain conflict.

It is our moral responsibility to reduce the capabilities of despots to commit atrocities. If he will gas his own people he will gas us.

It is in our interests to align with Gods interest concerning Israel.

The last line, I believe, encapsulates all your points : God can't end the world (and gas everyone) without Israel (and the temple) ; God's favorite people are still the Jews, even if most of them have no blood ties to Abraham and the Torah.

As I see it, Israel and the temple are idols ... and the Jews as God's chosen is ancestry worship ; originating in ancient pagan rites, plain and simple.

But yes, it's in the Bible ... that's become another idol.

And I wonder, and have even asked, why so many people run to cults. We certainly can't look to them for the answer.

And certainly not to the "Mission Accomplished" Trump.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

But yes, it's in the Bible ... that's become another idol.

Awareness,

In a world view where everything is an idol I will gladly choose the Bible over the idols of human philosophy, atheism, paganism, etc.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Awareness,

In a world view where everything is an idol I will gladly choose the Bible over the idols of human philosophy, atheism, paganism, etc.

And I'll take science over superstition any day of the week.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

And I'll take science over superstition any day of the week.

That is a false choice. Of course, who would disagree with that?

What you mean is that you accept the findings of science as presented vs. the record in the Bible.

Yet, specifically, what science are you referring to vs. what the Bible reveals?

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And I'll take science over superstition any day of the week.

Evolution is the greatest scientific superstitious hoax ever thrust upon mankind.

Perhaps you might still keep Sunday for the Bible, and the other six days for your "science?"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Awareness,

In a world view where everything is an idol I will gladly choose the Bible over the idols of human philosophy, atheism, paganism, etc.

Drake

Have you forgotten the idols of science and the internet???

[Ohio]

Let's leave the idols, and get back to politics. Comey style.

But let’s get back to Comey’s claims that Trump operates like a mafia boss. According to experts from Comey’s book and interviews with the former director he compares his experience with Trump to that of the actions of a mob boss. Those apparently are his feelings regarding the few meetings and phone calls he had with the president.

But the investigations into alleged collusion between the Trump campaign with Russia have not delivered. There is still no evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians and witnesses, for the most part, have been cooperating with Congress and Robert Mueller’s Office of Special Counsel.

It wasn’t so with the Clinton investigation. Former FBI Director Louis Freeh likened the Clinton campaign and failure of witnesses to respond to congressional inquiries to the mafia during a 1997 hearing on the matter.

In fact, by the time the congressional hearings had concluded roughly 120 people connected to the Clinton campaign had either fled the country or invoked the 5th Amendment to avoid answering questions.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Evolution is the greatest scientific superstitious hoax ever thrust upon mankind.

Perhaps you might still keep Sunday for the Bible, and the other six days for your "science?"

Oh my.

Is the science that awareness places his faith in and refers to ..... evolution?

A provocateur usually presents a more complex challenge.

Drake

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you forgotten the idols of science and the internet???

I don’t usually think of science as an idol but rather an explanation of how things work. Yet, I suppose someone could worship at that altar but that would be an act of ignorance because there is no contradiction between real science and the Bible. The theory of Evolution is a theory.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Oh my.

Is the science that awareness places his faith in and refers to ..... evolution?

A provocateur usually presents a more complex challenge.

Drake

awareness tends to view Christians across all time and space thru the eyes of Roman Catholic "flat earth" theologians in the dark ages.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

I don’t usually think of science as an idol but rather an explanation of how things work. Yet, I suppose someone could worship at that altar but that would be an act of ignorance because there is no contradiction between real science and the Bible. The theory of Evolution is a theory.

Drake

Theory no more! Proven fact, evolution is!

And science has become a god we can all trust.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP,

Your arguments do not align with the facts. Syria does not contribute significantly to the world supply of oil or gas.... oil from Syria contributes one half of one percent to the world supply. A big deal to Syria but not to the rest of the world. Syria ranks 53rd in natural gas production lagging behind notable superpowers such as East Timor, Madagascar, and Equatorial Guinea! Second if oil was the primary enabler of becoming a super power then big oil producers like Saudi Arabia would have become a super power a long time ago. They haven’t. Neither has UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Venezuela, so oil may be a factor but it is not the primary reason superpowers gain their powers. A superpower is one because they can project power. I agree that a bunch of energy is needed in a superpower economy but what is happening in Syria is not related to energy.

3 words: Charlie Wilson's War. What percent of the world's oil market does Afghanistan contribute? In 1981 I was working for an oil company in Houston. All of the executives were called to Washington for an emergency meeting with Carter. They then returned and I was in a meeting of geologists where we were told that the Whitehouse expected Russia to defeat Afghanistan and then they would have an open door to roll into the Middle East with tanks, etc. At the time we were unable to respond had they done so. Every oil company in the country was preparing for the price of oil to double and to bring currently uneconomic wells on line.

However, "Afghanistan" did defeat Russia. The reality was that the US was fighting that war and it was the US and US technology that defeated Russia. Why was Russia invading Afghanistan? They wanted the oil in the Middle East, not the oil in Afghanistan.

Originally Posted by Drake

Which brings me to the point bolded above. State sponsored terrorism as an explanation for gassing one owns people is an incoherent strategy for ridding intruders. Especially one that just announced they (the intruders) were leaving! There are different reasons for a state sponsoring terrorism but they all appear to be offensive in nature not defensive, that is they want to strengthen their power, expand it, or advance their ideology. The notion that a state sponsors terrorism against its own people or other people so that they can go back to living a life in peace is also irrational. That would be akin to playing checkers.... rather the game being played is chess.

One of the key leaders in the Afghanistan resistance was Osama Bin Laden. The CIA sold him on repelling the infidel invaders to his country. But once Russia was defeated we cut him off. He realized he had been played, and like the old saying "hell hath no fury like a Muslim Holy Warrior who has been scorned", well that is how Al Qaeda came to be. Osama played up the "David vs Goliath" victory against Russia as though that was his victory and not the US.

But ISIS is different. They are funded by the "State". Surely not Syria a regime on the verge of collapse, nor by Iran. Instead Russia, through its puppets of Syria and Iran. Do you think after what we did to them in Afghanistan they are going to let us just walk in and take over the oil fields in Iraq?

Iran is Russia's close ally. However, Israel is capable of bombing targets in Iran (remember the nuclear reactor in Iraq they bombed). Having a presence in Syria allows Russia to better defend Iran and supply ISIS.

Originally Posted by Drake

A biblical explanation is the most compatible with all the facts and with biblical prophecy which is why Israel invariably shows up in the discussion. There is a spiritual battle taking place as shown in Daniel. Much of Islam awaits the hidden imam, the final Mahdi, the one who will bring peace in the Occulation which aligns very well with our understanding of Antichrist and all his doings. Iran, a major state sponsor of terrorism, has no intruders on its land and will always respond to opposition to its aggression with something like “ we will eliminate Israel in 8 minutes” thereby showing the true objective of their going ons. All the conflicts, particularly in and around the Levant, are so that God can gain remaining fruit from Israel at His return according to Zechariah 12:10, Dan 7:13, and Revelation 1:7.

Drake

Fine, the boundaries of Israel, as stated in the book of Deuteronomy is the Mediterranean to the West, Lebanon to the North and the Tigris Euphrates to the East. That means they were given the entire Arab Peninsula. The only time they could have actually occupied that area was during the time of Solomon. The most striking thing about the reign of Solomon from a historical perspective are the "mines of Solomon". He was running an industrial scale mining operation, with very large smelting and shipping. In some places to make it easier for carts of ore to be moved they laid rails in the ground. The big problem with mining is flooding and you have to continually pump water out. Whether the pump is powered by animals or steam it is essentially the same. It was the need to make steam powered water pumps for mines that ultimately brought in the industrial revolution. The problem is not the idea, we have found little steam powered toys from this period in Greece. The problem is that to build a steam engine requires metal working, machinery and a large organization beyond the scope of an individual. In other words it was right in Solomon's strength. Solomon had the mines, he had the need to use steam power, he was swimming in oil, and his well run government organization was legendary. They had to know that oil was flammable, when they pitched Noah's ark they used pitch, they have to heat it up, no doubt they saw it burn at some point. So, had Solomon not been distracted with his 100 wives, had he not gone to Egypt for horses (which he was strictly forbidden from doing in the Bible) had he not gone to Lebanon for timber (again in violation of God's word) he could have brought about the industrial revolution. An engine that pumps a piston for pumping water can also pump a piston to move a train. Over the next 400 years they could have had trains, concrete and steel frame buildings, roads, cars, etc. When the Babylonians finally show up they would have come crawling on their knees. No Babylonian empire, no Meso-Persian empire, No Greek Empire and no Roman empire. Without the wars Israel would have truly been the city of peace set on a hill. That is also part of the Biblical prophecy.

But, due to sin and disobedience we have taken a different path. Israel, does not have any oil reserves, instead, they are the beachhead for the US and European presence in the Middle East. Oh yeah, another prophecy, Antichrist, Prince of Greece, will set himself up on the throne in Israel.

I did not say that Islamic holy warriors motivation was oil, nor did I say that Jewish return to Israel was motivated by oil. What I said was that the US, Europe, Russia, and China's motivation is oil. That is what will bring the four corners of the Earth to Armageddon. That is why the "four corners of the Earth are bound up at the Tigris Euphrates" -- another Biblical prophecy.

Going back to the key point, Syria claims to have shot down some of our smart bombs. Do you think that could possibly be the result of Syrian technology or isn't it much more likely the result of Russian technology, payback for stinger missiles shooting down their helicopters in Afghanistan.

Also, why is Russia pumping billions into Syria to fight against the US which is pumping billions to fight Syria? Why not just give millions in humanitarian aid and not fight at all? Surely they aren't fighting over control of Syria.

Also, why does Trump warn Russia a few days ahead of time unless it was to prevent this strike from turning into WWIII with Russia.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Evolution is the greatest scientific superstitious hoax ever thrust upon mankind.

Perhaps you might still keep Sunday for the Bible, and the other six days for your "science?"

If you wipe up the dirt on the floor and look at it under a microscope you will see millions of little organisms, bacteria, etc. According to the theory of evolution those little critters evolved into man.

Are you saying that it is a hoax to say that man is formed from the dust of the ground?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you forgotten the idols of science and the internet???

Where's their churches? I'd like to check them out, and attend their meetings. And do they have Bibles? Maybe I should read them first.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Theory no more! Proven fact, evolution is!

And science has become a god we can all trust.

At least scientists are trying to prove themselves wrong, and are glad when they find it. Unlike the religious, who think they are always right, and maybe admit wrong, long, long, after it's been undeniably proven.

And you are right. Evolution is a fact. Ask your exterminator.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Where's their churches? I'd like to check them out, and attend their meetings. And do they have Bibles? Maybe I should read them first.

You are in "church" right now.

Their high priests are guys like zuckerberg, jobs, and gates.

Their bibles are atheism and new age theology.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

One of the key leaders in the Afghanistan resistance was Osama Bin Laden. The CIA sold him on repelling the infidel invaders to his country. But once Russia was defeated we cut him off. He realized he had been played, and like the old saying "hell hath no fury like a Muslim Holy Warrior who has been scorned", well that is how Al Qaeda came to be. Osama played up the "David vs Goliath" victory against Russia as though that was his victory and not the US.

Did you ever think that Osama Bin Hiding just liked to blow things up?

Both sides of the cold war employed guys like this.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You are in "church" right now.

Their high priests are guys like zuckerberg, jobs, and gates.

Their bibles are atheism and new age theology.

So their church is the world, and their Bibles are all the books and the internet? And Amazon is their intermediary to their high God Darwin?

[Drake]

ZNP>”Also, why is Russia pumping billions into Syria to fight against the US which is pumping billions to fight Syria? Why not just give millions in humanitarian aid and not fight at all? Surely they aren't fighting over control of Syria.”

ZNP,

Russia invaded Afghanistan to prop up a communist government facing insurgency. USA always at the ready to check Soviet expansion supplied arms to “freedom fighters” with an agenda of their own that consider both Russians and Americans as infidels. Of course controlling energy natural resources is an interest for all involved.

But that is not why the US, UK, and France bombed Assad’s chemical producing capabilities this weekend. They did it because he gassed his own people, including women and children, in a most horrendous way. He violated international law in place for a hundred years, showed himself to be a liar and deceiver concerning his commitment to rid his supply of those gasses and to never use them again, and revealed the true beast that he is. Syria has no oil, no natural gas, to speak of and we had just announced our intention to withdraw all combat forces from the country soon. Your Charlie War is not applicable when it comes to Syria... it is not about oil from the USA perspective. It is about taking decisive action and containing atrocious behavior, sending a message to the others who think like Assad, and a clear message that crossing lines, whether they have been explicitly drawn or not, will not be tolerated by this administration. There’s a new sheriff in town. These people do not respect humanitarian aid, peace negotiations, or the ideas in Lennon’s Imagine. They understand and respect force. Assad tested the international community’s resolve, miscalculated, and lost.

The raging battle is not the one we see on the surface. It is the spiritual one that is not so apparent. Israel is the object of that battle.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

But that is not why the US, UK, and France bombed Assad’s chemical producing capabilities this weekend. They did it because he gassed his own people, including women and children, in a most horrendous way. He violated international law in place for a hundred years, showed himself to be a liar and deceiver concerning his commitment to rid his supply of those gasses and to never use them again, and revealed the true beast that he is. Syria has no oil, no natural gas, to speak of and we had just announced our intention to withdraw all combat forces from the country soon. Your Charlie War is not applicable when it comes to Syria... it is not about oil from the USA perspective. It is about taking decisive action and containing atrocious behavior, sending a message to the others who think like Assad, and a clear message that crossing lines, whether they have been explicitly drawn or not, will not be tolerated by this administration. There’s a new sheriff in town. These people do not respect humanitarian aid, peace negotiations, or the ideas in Lennon’s Imagine. They understand and respect force. Assad tested the international community’s resolve, miscalculated, and lost.

The raging battle is not the one we see on the surface. It is the spiritual one that is not so apparent. Israel is the object of that battle.

Drake

That is certainly a reasonable viewpoint based on the way the US and others have presented what is happening to the US public. I thought the Trump supporters were clever enough to see fake news for what it is.

But it doesn't answer a number of troubling questions.

1. The crisis in Syria is due to climate change, they have been hit especially hard. This is what prompted the refugee crisis where Europe was virtually swamped. This is why they blame Assad and he is incapable of doing anything but bombing and gassing his own people in his pathetic attempt to hold onto power. If the West (US and Europe) took these refugees it would cost us 1/10th the price of the fighting, it would solve the problem, and it would be far more humanitarian than leaving these people to die in Syria. So explain to me why the US chooses to spend ten times more while at the same time spending much more on building a wall to keep out the projected flood of refugees while all the time denying and whitewashing govt reports about Climate change?

2. You still haven't explained why Russia is there arm in arm with Assad? If they aren't there to influence the middle East and protect their valuable ally Iran why are they there?

3. Assad is holding onto power by a thread. Yet the West (Europe and the US) is very clear that they do not want to remove him from power even though his behavior has been atrocious and not just two gas attacks. The list is far longer than that. Why do we want to keep a monster in power?

4. Clear message? Are you talking about Trump's tweet days before the smart bombs were sent making sure that no significant damage was done?

The clear message is don't do anything that will expose this charade for what it is, a charade, otherwise we are forced to slap your wrist with a wet noodle. Wake up this "strike" was clearly preceded with a 48 hour warning giving them plenty of time to move their equipment and people. It was pure theater for the American public. There is no intent to deal with Assad, there is no intent to help the humanitarian crisis. It is a classic example of following the letter of the law but not the spirit.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is certainly a reasonable viewpoint based on the way the US and others have presented what is happening to the US public. I thought the Trump supporters were clever enough to see fake news for what it is. But it doesn't answer a number of troubling questions.

1. The crisis in Syria is due to climate change, they have been hit especially hard. This is what prompted the refugee crisis where Europe was virtually swamped. This is why they blame Assad and he is incapable of doing anything but bombing and gassing his own people in his pathetic attempt to hold onto power. If the West (US and Europe) took these refugees it would cost us 1/10th the price of the fighting, it would solve the problem, and it would be far more humanitarian than leaving these people to die in Syria. So explain to me why the US chooses to spend ten times more while at the same time spending much more on building a wall to keep out the projected flood of refugees while all the time denying and whitewashing govt reports about Climate change?

Climate change? Is that how we now explain the actions of totalitarian monsters who kill their own people? The weather may be nasty tomorrow, I think I'll find someone to murder! Taking these refugees is cheap? Explain to me the cost of 911 and other terrorist plots in the US, UK, and France? Walls are cheap! Take a look at how border towns like Tucson have been destroyed.

2. You still haven't explained why Russia is there arm in arm with Assad? If they aren't there to influence the middle East and protect their valuable ally Iran why are they there?
Russia gets a satellite. (They have been known to do this before, would you like me to name a few places?) Syria gives them a warm weather port on the Mediterranean. And btw, take a look at some of the Bible prophecies about Israel's enemies from the "north."

3. Assad is holding onto power by a thread. Yet the West (Europe and the US) is very clear that they do not want to remove him from power even though his behavior has been atrocious and not just two gas attacks. The list is far longer than that. Why do we want to keep a monster in power?
Because we have learned that the alternative to Assad can be worse. Libya and Iraq proved that.

4. Clear message? Are you talking about Trump's tweet days before the smart bombs were sent making sure that no significant damage was done?
Messages are only as clear as the receiving party hears them. When Obama, Rice, and Kerry told us 5 years ago that all chemical WMD's were removed thru "brilliant diplomacy, doing what no missiles could accomplish" the liberal press heard that message and believed it. You did too?

The clear message is don't do anything that will expose this charade for what it is, a charade, otherwise we are forced to slap your wrist with a wet noodle. Wake up this "strike" was clearly preceded with a 48 hour warning giving them plenty of time to move their equipment and people. It was pure theater for the American public. There is no intent to deal with Assad, there is no intent to help the humanitarian crisis. It is a classic example of following the letter of the law but not the spirit.
Wish your boy Obama would have at least used a "wet noodle." He did nothing but lie to us.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

[COLOR=Blue]Climate change? Is that how we now explain the actions of totalitarian monsters who kill their own people? The weather may be nasty tomorrow, I think I'll find someone to murder!

Read the Good Earth by Pearl Buck and you will get a clear look at what Climate Change can do when there are millions of climate refugees who can't feed themselves.

[Drake]

-1

I agree with Ohios points and would add these additional points.

“....there is no consensus within the growing field of climate-conflict studies on whether violence and civil conflict are in any way related to climatic variables.”

Full article here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...62629816301822

I think it was admirable that Trump telegraphed the attack to mimimize loss of life. Assad could not move buildings and infrastructure so his chemical making capabilities are now greatly diminished. It was a precision strike. Killing people would not have made a difference and killing Russians might have made a big difference.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Read the Good Earth by Pearl Buck and you will get a clear look at what Climate Change can do when there are millions of climate refugees who can't feed themselves.

They were not climate change refugees. Assad blew up their homes, jobs, and cities.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

I agree with Ohios points and would add these additional points.

“....there is no consensus within the growing field of climate-conflict studies on whether violence and civil conflict are in any way related to climatic variables.”

Full article here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...62629816301822

I think it was admirable that Trump telegraphed the attack to mimimize loss of life. Assad could not move buildings and infrastructure so his chemical making capabilities are now greatly diminished. It was a precision strike. Killing people would not have made a difference and killing Russians might have made a big difference.

Drake

Soon these pseudo-scientists will be accusing Trump of mass murder for shutting down the Paris Climate treaty.

[manna-man]

Where is the proof of a chemical attack?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

I agree with Ohios points and would add these additional points.

“....there is no consensus within the growing field of climate-conflict studies on whether violence and civil conflict are in any way related to climatic variables.”

Full article here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...62629816301822

I think it was admirable that Trump telegraphed the attack to mimimize loss of life. Assad could not move buildings and infrastructure so his chemical making capabilities are now greatly diminished. It was a precision strike. Killing people would not have made a difference and killing Russians might have made a big difference.

Drake

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...refugee-crisis

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

I agree with Ohios points and would add these additional points.

“....there is no consensus within the growing field of climate-conflict studies on whether violence and civil conflict are in any way related to climatic variables.”

Full article here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...62629816301822

I think it was admirable that Trump telegraphed the attack to mimimize loss of life. Assad could not move buildings and infrastructure so his chemical making capabilities are now greatly diminished. It was a precision strike. Killing people would not have made a difference and killing Russians might have made a big difference.

Drake

Tens of millions of people will be forced from their homes by climate change in the next decade, creating the biggest refugee crisis the world has ever seen, according to a new report.https://www.theguardian.com/environm...refugee-crisis

Scientists have for years cited extreme weather events connected to climate change as a contributing factor in the ongoing European migrant crisis. Drought and crop failure have destroyed livelihoods and driven sectarian conflict, leading to mass migration from the Middle East and Northern Africa to Europe.

The problem is about to get much worse, according to a new study in the journal Science. Researchers behind the study evaluated asylum applications submitted to the European Union from migrants in more than 100 countries between 2000 and 2014, and found a link between dramatic temperature fluctuations and migration.

As temperatures rise, researchers say unchecked climate change could drive a 188% increase in the number of refugees seeking asylum in Europe annually by the end of the century, as migrants seek to escape temperature extremes that might disrupt livelihoods and aggravate some of the world’s thorniest geopolitical conflicts. (http://time.com/5076003/climate-change-migration-trump/)

A major contributor to the Syrian conflict? Climate change
Starting in 2006, Syria suffered its worst drought in 900 years; it ruined farms, forced as many as 1.5 million rural denizens to crowd into cities alongside Iraqi refugees and decimated the country’s livestock. Water became scarce and food expensive. The suffering and social chaos caused by the drought were important drivers of the initial unrest. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy...climate-change

[Drake]

-1

ZNP

The Syria Civil War was precipitated by the Arab Spring. People are displaced in wars because they move out of conflict zones to keep from getting killed. Half of those displaced in Syria moved to another part of Syria so they are not displaced by climate change but by the conflict.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War

That part of the Levant has never been a bread basket, rather its a desert climate, and once food supply lines are disrupted the refugees seek food wherever they can such as neighboring Turkey. People need to eat.

You are predisposed to climate change as a cause and there are plenty of people who hold that view so you will find support for it online. There are also people who believe UFOs are involved in the conflict in Syria. In other words, you can find support for almost any belief. Then how does one decide the most probable explanation? I think Occams Razor is best applied to this situation..... the simplest explanation is that people moved out of the way of bullets, machetes, bombs, rape, slavery, drowning cages, etc...seeking food, clean water, shelter... not fleeing the effects of climate change. In other words, even if every family in Syria had a unlimited supply of chickpea hummus on their tables they would still be fleeing for their lives.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

I think Occams Razor is best applied to this situation..... the simplest explanation is that people moved out of the way of bullets, machetes, bombs, rape, slavery, drowning cages, etc...seeking food, clean water, shelter... not fleeing the effects of climate change. In other words, even if every family in Syria had a unlimited supply of chickpea hummus on their tables they would still be fleeing for their lives.

Drake

I agree with the principle that the simplest explanation makes sense.

There would not have been any bullets, bombs, or "mother of all wars" had the US and Europe been self sufficient in energy.

But instead we have chosen a policy of developing the Middle East oil supply as part of US national policy. We have spent trillions of dollars on the various Gulf wars and "war on Terror". Had those trillions of dollars been spent on research, development and manufacture of renewable energy we would now be the undisputed leader in this major field, we would be self sufficient in energy, and probably half of the motivation for war in the Middle
East would not have been there.

The other half is a consequence of our burning that fossil fuel, also would have been mitigated by a policy of energy self sufficiency. This is the policy that Carter was pushing when he was president. However, a phony oil crisis was manufactured by shutting down a few refineries, this in turn pushed Carter out and replaced him with Reagan and the oil men. And, from that point on we have been fully committed to the "petro dollar". Our current situation is not due to Obama or Trump, it is due to that scheme in the late 70s (some say Kissinger was the architect).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree with the principle that the simplest explanation makes sense.

There would not have been any bullets, bombs, or "mother of all wars" had the US and Europe been self sufficient in energy.

But instead we have chosen a policy of developing the Middle East oil supply as part of US national policy. We have spent trillions of dollars on the various Gulf wars and "war on Terror". Had those trillions of dollars been spent on research, development and manufacture of renewable energy we would now be the undisputed leader in this major field, we would be self sufficient in energy, and probably half of the motivation for war in the Middle
East would not have been there.

The other half is a consequence of our burning that fossil fuel, also would have been mitigated by a policy of energy self sufficiency. This is the policy that Carter was pushing when he was president. However, a phony oil crisis was manufactured by shutting down a few refineries, this in turn pushed Carter out and replaced him with Reagan and the oil men. And, from that point on we have been fully committed to the "petro dollar". Our current situation is not due to Obama or Trump, it is due to that scheme in the late 70s (some say Kissinger was the architect).

I find it interesting that you promote a policy of energy self sufficiency yet despise the first president to come along who actually intends to do it.

Unfortunately, this earth as we know it has become a "disposable" entity.

So if you ain't gonna blame Trump or Reagan for the world's problems, you may as well select Nixon (Kissinger.)

I guess we all have our theories. awareness blames everything on religion. You blame petroleum.

[Drake]

-2

ZNP,

Then you’ll be happy to know that the USA is poised to become a net exporter of oil in the near future:

“A remarkable ability to unlock new resources cost-effectively pushes combined United States oil and gas output to a level 50% higher than any other country has ever managed; already a net exporter of gas, the US becomes a net exporter of oil in the late 2020s.”

Full article here: https://www.iea.org/weo2017/

Still you are missing the most obvious explanation why Assad and his chemical infrastructure were bombed. He gassed his own people.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

-2

ZNP,

Then you’ll be happy to know that the USA is poised to become a net exporter of oil in the near future:

“A remarkable ability to unlock new resources cost-effectively pushes combined United States oil and gas output to a level 50% higher than any other country has ever managed; already a net exporter of gas, the US becomes a net exporter of oil in the late 2020s.”

Full article here: https://www.iea.org/weo2017/

Still you are missing the most obvious explanation why Assad and his chemical infrastructure were bombed. He gassed his own people.

Drake

Did you see the movie about concussions in the NFL? "He may have died from a heart attack, but that is not why he died".

Unless you are willing to find out the root cause you cannot be a peace maker.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I find it interesting that you promote a policy of energy self sufficiency yet despise the first president to come along who actually intends to do it.

Unfortunately, this earth as we know it has become a "disposable" entity.

So if you ain't gonna blame Trump or Reagan for the world's problems, you may as well select Nixon (Kissinger.)

I guess we all have our theories. awareness blames everything on religion. You blame petroleum.

I have never once expressed derision for a policy of self sufficiency.

Also, anyone who has read my posts on "blame" knows that I don't blame any of the US presidents, I blame Solomon.

Also, to say I blame petroleum is a superficial and erroneous reading of what I have said. I used to work in the oil industry. I recognize that oil was a necessary bridge from an agricultural society to a clean and efficient technological one. We should have crossed this bridge at the time of Solomon.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did you see the movie about concussions in the NFL? "He may have died from a heart attack, but that is not why he died".

Unless you are willing to find out the root cause you cannot be a peace maker.

ZNP,

The root cause as I have already expressed is that little strip of land called Israel. Everything that happens particularly in the Levant is related to that tiny country with big implications.

Yet, Syria got bombed because Assad gassed his own people.

Drake

[zeek]

James Comey says President Trump is a serial liar, treats women like "meat" and is a "stain" on all who work for him, in an ABC News interview. But hey, I could have told you that. The big news is that Evangelical Christians love the Trump as if he were their daddy. We ex-local churchers know what worshiping a powerful cult leader is like. We've been there, so, we understand.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP,

The root cause as I have already expressed is that little strip of land called Israel. Everything that happens particularly in the Levant is related to that tiny country with big implications.

Yet, Syria got bombed because Assad gassed his own people.

Drake

I am sure that is a very useful viewpoint for anyone not involved in running this country and representing all Americans.

Yes you have expressed your opinion on this matter repeatedly and confidently affirmed that this is what the Bible says, yet to my recollection you have not provided a single Bible prophecy that might assist in US foreign policy. Forgive me for being so frank, but after my experience in the LRC I am not willing for someone to tell me "trust me, this is what the Bible says". Why don't you back up your position with these prophecies you keep claiming are there.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

James Comey says President Trump is a serial liar, treats women like "meat" and is a "stain" on all who work for him, in an ABC News interview. But hey, I could have told you that. The big news is that Evangelical Christians love the Trump as if he were their daddy. We ex-local churchers know what worshiping a powerful cult leader is like. We've been there, so, we understand.

I meet with an Evangelical church of a couple of thousand. I am not aware of anyone I meet with who "loves Trump as if he were their daddy".

Not only is this statement of yours not factual, it doesn't even align with your previous references:

White evangelicals who believe in Christian nationalism.

As I have pointed out "White Evangelicals" are a very small subset of Evangelicals, so to describe the entire group based on these is disingenuous. Also, I have never heard "christian nationalism" preached in any church I have been in. Therefore I suspect it makes this an even smaller group.

Why not just call them "white supremacists" rather than "Evangelicals". That at least would be far more accurate a description. By being so transparently inaccurate one would get the impression your goal was to slander Evangelical Christians. If instead you describe the group as "white supremacists" the impression would be to provide a fair warning concerning Trump's base of support.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am sure that is a very useful viewpoint for anyone not involved in running this country and representing all Americans.

To what extent people running this country understand the nation of Israel’s role in world events is debatable. Nevertheless, America is a close ally for a reason, understood or not.

The reasons for the bombing of Assad’s chemical infrastructure is more obvious to everyone with the possible exception for those who view climate change as the cause of and explanation for every ill and evil in the world.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

James Comey says President Trump is a serial liar, treats women like "meat" and is a "stain" on all who work for him, in an ABC News interview. But hey, I could have told you that. The big news is that Evangelical Christians love the Trump as if he were their daddy. We ex-local churchers know what worshiping a powerful cult leader is like. We've been there, so, we understand.

Comey is like King Saul, head and shoulders above the others, and has the same "quality" of character.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

To what extent people running this country understand the nation of Israel’s role in world events is debatable. Nevertheless, America is a close ally for a reason, understood or not.

The reasons for the bombing of Assad’s chemical infrastructure is more obvious to everyone with the possible exception for those who view climate change as the cause of and explanation for every ill and evil in the world.

Drake

Please provide your Bible prophecies to support your position, or is this just your opinion?

For example: "God is not mocked, whatever a man sows this shall he reap". We have sown war and destruction, we are also reaping this. We have sown rape and pillage, we are also reaping this. We have set up puppet dictators and wow, who would have thought that other countries would meddle in our elections to do the same to us. I do not see how any of this is "blessing Israel".

The book of Revelation prophesies that a bowl will be poured out on the Sun and it will be given to burn man with fire and great heat. We poured CFC's into the atmosphere and as a result the Sun burns us with UV radiation. We have poured greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and as a result the sun burns us with great heat (not quite yet -- that is still a promise for the very near future). As a result of this pollution the book of Revelation prophesies that there will be great death on land and in the ocean (again -- what we expect from UV radiation and Climate change) it also prophesies that people get cancer (emerods) and hide from the Sun.

Or, the Lord's second coming will be "as the days of Noah" a prophecy echoed in the Time magazine cover where they made the Earth Time's "man of the year".

Or how about "in the last times grievous times,..." I could go on, but I would like to hear your Bible prophecies that you keep referring to.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have never once expressed derision for a policy of self sufficiency.

Also, anyone who has read my posts on "blame" knows that I don't blame any of the US presidents, I blame Solomon.

Also, to say I blame petroleum is a superficial and erroneous reading of what I have said. I used to work in the oil industry. I recognize that oil was a necessary bridge from an agricultural society to a clean and efficient technological one. We should have crossed this bridge at the time of Solomon.

Not sure how many would agree with this.

I blame Solomon for his unrestrained lust for pretty girls.

Same goes for Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not sure how many would agree with this.

I blame Solomon for his unrestrained lust for pretty girls.

Same goes for Trump.

At least the Psalmist agrees with me. Also, his "wisdom" has been turned to foolishness just as the NT said. Also, before God no flesh will glory.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

James Comey says President Trump is a serial liar, treats women like "meat" and is a "stain" on all who work for him, in an ABC News interview. But hey, I could have told you that. The big news is that Evangelical Christians love the Trump as if he were their daddy. We ex-local churchers know what worshiping a powerful cult leader is like. We've been there, so, we understand.

Comey was really talking about his beloved friends Bill and Hillary.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Please provide your Bible prophecies to support your position, or is this just your opinion?

For example: "God is not mocked, whatever a man sows this shall he reap". We have sown war and destruction, we are also reaping this. We have sown rape and pillage, we are also reaping this. We have set up puppet dictators and wow, who would have thought that other countries would meddle in our elections to do the same to us. I do not see how any of this is "blessing Israel".

Who is the "WE" you are talking about?

What "man" are you referring to?

Is this how you interpret scripture?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Please provide your Bible prophecies to support your position, or is this just your opinion?

For example: "God is not mocked, whatever a man sows this shall he reap". We have sown war and destruction, we are also reaping this. We have sown rape and pillage, we are also reaping this. We have set up puppet dictators and wow, who would have thought that other countries would meddle in our elections to do the same to us. I do not see how any of this is "blessing Israel".

The book of Revelation prophesies that a bowl will be poured out on the Sun and it will be given to burn man with fire and great heat. We poured CFC's into the atmosphere and as a result the Sun burns us with UV radiation. We have poured greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and as a result the sun burns us with great heat (not quite yet -- that is still a promise for the very near future). As a result of this pollution the book of Revelation prophesies that there will be great death on land and in the ocean (again -- what we expect from UV radiation and Climate change) it also prophesies that people get cancer (emerods) and hide from the Sun.

Or, the Lord's second coming will be "as the days of Noah" a prophecy echoed in the Time magazine cover where they made the Earth Time's "man of the year".

Or how about "in the last times grievous times,..." I could go on, but I would like to hear your Bible prophecies that you keep referring to.

I probably would not object to man made actions contributing to some of the calamities in the end times. I don’t agree with climate change as the explanation for all of it. I mean really, the Noahic flood was brought on by climate change? It is better to use the explanations from the Bible than Time magazine... you know what I mean?

Concerning Israel. Let’s start with the scriptures I provided for the very purpose of conversation in post # 3157. What do you think those verses reveal about Israel?

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's not me who obsesses over Trump, but you.

It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome.

rotflmao ... good one bro Ohio.

But really, my obsession, if I have one, has more to do with Trump being all over in the news, in Late Night shows, the comedy shows. Trump is every where I look. Can't avoid him. Everyone is talking about him. Even out here. Your even obsessed with Trump.

As I see Trump, I clearly see a giant ego, that thrives on attention. So the worst thing that could happen to Trump, that would really get to him, and get deeply under his skin, would be for everyone to stop talking about him. Then Trump would prolly become deranged ... if he isn't already,,,

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

I probably would not object to man made actions contributing to some of the calamities in the end times. I don’t agree with climate change as the explanation for all of it. I mean really, the Noahic flood was brought on by climate change? It is better to use the explanations from the Bible than Time magazine... you know what I mean?

The Bible does not say that Noah's flood was caused by Climate change, it says that the end of this age will be like the days of Noah. We are witnessing a major extinction taking place on par with other major extinctions in Earth's past. As a result we are doing things like creating seed banks to "survive the flood". Therefore, today is "as the days of Noah". However, this current extinction is not brought about by the flood but rather by climate change, pollution, and other human factors. Once again, you cannot interpret the Lord's word to mean there will be a big flood at the end of the age because the Bible specifically promises not to do that again.

However, it is relevant to US policy since we can use the same strategy, build something (like Noah's boat) that will survive the flood. We have created seed banks that we are storing quantities of seeds from all kinds of species, animal and plant, so that after the extinction we have not lost this genetic riches.

There are 18 domesticated animals that have been crucial to the success of human civilization (Cows, horses, camels, sheep, goats, chickens, etc). Only 1 of these is found anywhere other than the Middle East (llamas). Apart from that 17 out of 18 belonged to Mesopotamia. Why did all these large animals suddenly go extinct in the Americas, Australia, etc at the same time that man appeared. Some have speculated that we hunted them to extinction -- very, very difficult to believe (We tried to hunt Buffalo to extinction to get rid of the Indians yet didn't succeed). Others have speculated that it was disease associated with man. I would suggest it was Noah's flood. The reason Mesopotamia didn't lose the animals was because Noah saved those 17 animals alive.

Originally Posted by Drake

Concerning Israel. Let’s start with the scriptures I provided for the very purpose of conversation in post # 3157. What do you think those verses reveal about Israel?

Drake

Zechariah 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.

What does that have to do with US foreign policy?

Dan 7:13

13 I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, there came with the clouds of heaven one like unto a son of man, and he came even to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

This refers to the Lord returning in the clouds. What does this have to do with US foreign policy?

Revelation 1:7.

7 Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen.

Sorry, I do not see how any of these quotes are relevant, can you please explain?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Who is the "WE" you are talking about?

What "man" are you referring to?

Is this how you interpret scripture?

What you sow is what you reap. That can refer to a person, or to a country. If the US fights a war, then everyone in the US is part of the "We". Some are soldiers, some are citizens who vote, many are taxpayers. In one way or another we are all accountable for the actions that "we" take.

37% of Germans voted for Hitler, therefore 63% did not. They are still accountable. It is quite obvious that the gas chambers were known by more Germans than just the SS, so not being the SS does not mean you were ignorant of this. However, undoubtedly many Germans were ignorant. In that case it is a "sin of ignorance". But every German adult during that time should feel some level of accountability. Likewise, much of the reason Hitler rose to power was due to unrighteous peace treaty, so those countries should also feel some accountability. They sowed an unrighteous treaty, they reaped WWII.

I did not vote for Trump, but he is still my president and I am still a US citizen and I am accountable for what the US and Trump do.

Contrast that with how Macarthur treated the Japanese after WWII. We sowed righteousness and we reaped a good ally for many decades to come.

[zeek]

"Fox News commentator Sean Hannity was revealed in federal court Monday to have been represented by President Donald Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, after a judge ordered the disclosure of a Cohen client who had wanted his identity hidden." https://www.wsj.com/articles/sean-ha...hen-1523908997 Isn't that sweet? Trump and Hannity are so close they even share an attorney. No wonder Hannity sounds like Trump's echo. "Sean the Pawn"-- I think they call him.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Fox News commentator Sean Hannity was revealed in federal court Monday to have been represented by President Donald Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, after a judge ordered the disclosure of a Cohen client who had wanted his identity hidden." https://www.wsj.com/articles/sean-ha...hen-1523908997 Isn't that sweet? Trump and Hannity are so close they even share an attorney. No wonder Hannity sounds like Trump's echo. "Sean the Pawn"-- I think they call him.

Sweet, this proves Trump is correct when he talks about "fake news". It better be fake, he paid for it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Sweet, this proves Trump is correct when he talks about "fake news". It better be fake, he paid for it.

If only the majority of Christian Evangelicals saw Trump as you do.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

If only the majority of Christian Evangelicals saw Trump as you do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg1Ty8GvBI4

This video from an interview with NBC makes the position very clear.

1. They did not support Trump when their were a number of Republicans in the field.

2. When they were forced to choose between Trump and Clinton they chose Trump.

3. Trump has followed through with his promises that he made to the Evangelicals.

4. If the allegations of impropriety are proven true that is a problem. However, as long as this negative behavior from the past stays in the past they can forgive it.

I feel that this is a valid position for Christians to take. My reasons for not supporting Trump are based on my background with the LRC and my concern over how bad a bad government can become.

Many believe that what opened the door to Hitler to get power was not support for Hitler but rather a concerted effort to undermine democracy. There is no doubt that this is what we see today in the US, a concerted effort to undermine democracy.

"The Nazis were able to seize power because a shrewd leadership was able to mobilize three essential power resources: the activism and violence of Nazi militants (discussed in the previous chapter), the votes of one-third of the German electorate, and the ambivalence of German elites concerning Weimar democracy." Fascists, by Michael Mann

"Hitler entered German democratic politics with the explicit agenda of destroying democracy." Crapitalism, Michael Faust

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Fox News commentator Sean Hannity was revealed in federal court Monday to have been represented by President Donald Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, after a judge ordered the disclosure of a Cohen client who had wanted his identity hidden." https://www.wsj.com/articles/sean-ha...hen-1523908997 Isn't that sweet? Trump and Hannity are so close they even share an attorney. No wonder Hannity sounds like Trump's echo. "Sean the Pawn"-- I think they call him.

Cohen pays off on NDA's to keep sex partners quiet. Who has Hannity had secret sex with?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Many believe that what opened the door to Hitler to get power was not support for Hitler but rather a concerted effort to undermine democracy. There is no doubt that this is what we see today in the US, a concerted effort to undermine democracy.

There you go on Hitler again.

But many view the Obama/Clinton/Progressive agenda as a concerted effort to undermine democracy. This point you got right.

Look at Comey. He is typical of top appointments under Obama. Clapper, Brennan, McCabe, Rosenstein, Ohr, Lynch, etc. all working in concert to undermine a democratically elected President by manipulating the Press.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Cohen pays off on NDA's to keep sex partners quiet. Who has Hannity had secret sex with?

What are you saying? Hannity has completely and totally ripped this invasion of Lawyer Client privilege. Are you smearing his good name by saying he was unethically trying to hide the fact that he, as a journalist, should have disclosed his relationship with Cohen?!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There are 18 domesticated animals that have been crucial to the success of human civilization (Cows, horses, camels, sheep, goats, chickens, etc). Only 1 of these is found anywhere other than the Middle East (llamas). Apart from that 17 out of 18 belonged to Mesopotamia.

Now that I know that I’ll die a happy man!

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Zechariah 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.

What does that have to do with US foreign policy?

Dan 7:13

13 I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, there came with the clouds of heaven one like unto a son of man, and he came even to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

This refers to the Lord returning in the clouds. What does this have to do with US foreign policy?

Revelation 1:7.

7 Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen.

Sorry, I do not see how any of these quotes are relevant, can you please explain?

Well, by this we can see that conflict will escalate in the Levant, it becomes the arena that AntiChrist will stage his final and futile battle, Israel under siege facing extinction with just a remnant left is rescued by the Lords glorious appearing, and it is then that the nation of Israel will be saved. Then the Lord Jesus will establish His reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

Therefore, knowing the end of the matter we can work out the rest. The Lord will restore the earth from the ravages of the Tribulation. The spiritual principalities and powers who rule the earth today will be displaced and the peace you seek will finally occur under reign of a righteous Ruler.

Everything that happens, including the civil war in Syria, are indicators that the Day of the Lord is just that much closer. The nations surrounding Israel want to extinguish her, Christians should pray for her preservation and peace, and foreign powers should align their policies on the right side of the issue.

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...n-Syria-550073


Drake

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There you go on Hitler again.

But many view the Obama/Clinton/Progressive agenda as a concerted effort to undermine democracy. This point you got right.

Look at Comey. He is typical of top appointments under Obama. Clapper, Brennan, McCabe, Rosenstein, Ohr, Lynch, etc. all working in concert to undermine a democratically elected President by manipulating the Press.

Leftist and progressive ideologies are the worst as they have slaughted millions of people because of those ideologies. In our country they will sacrifice everything for the sake of their idealism. They are the most dangerous to the American way of life as we know it. In reality there is very little difference between communism and fascism. Every time a progressive liberal cites Hitler I immediately think of Stalin or Pol Pot. Hardly any daylight between them.

That is why the politicization of the intelligence apparatus is so dangerous. If they behave as revolutionaries toward an elected President they will pluck out ordinary citizens like an ear hair. Should be a concern for every American.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

Now that I know that I’ll die a happy man!

Well, by this we can see that conflict will escalate in the Levant, it becomes the arena that AntiChrist will stage his final and futile battle, Israel under siege facing extinction with just a remnant left is rescued by the Lords glorious appearing, and it is then that the nation of Israel will be saved. Then the Lord Jesus will establish His reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

So why would the US want to position itself in the midst of the Lord's final battle? Since Israel is rescued by the Lord's glorious appearing how is that instructive to the US to intervene? Likewise, how is the fact that the Lord is going to establish his reign for 1,000 years instructive to US foreign policy?

Originally Posted by Drake

Therefore, knowing the end of the matter we can work out the rest. The Lord will restore the earth from the ravages of the Tribulation. The spiritual principalities and powers who rule the earth today will be displaced and the peace you seek will finally occur under reign of a righteous Ruler.

Again I don't see how any of this has anything to do with US foreign policy. Are you saying that since will be established at that time that we should not be peace makers in this age?

Originally Posted by Drake

Everything that happens, including the civil war in Syria, are indicators that the Day of the Lord is just that much closer. The nations surrounding Israel want to extinguish her, Christians should pray for her preservation and peace, and foreign powers should align their policies on the right side of the issue.

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...n-Syria-550073


Drake

The civil war in Syria is because the nations around Israel want to extinguish her? Funny you should say that, some historians have said that the civil war in Syria is because Assad misread the earliest protests as an attempt by his enemies from foreign countries to topple him.

None of what you have shared is at all helpful to determining US policy.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

Leftist and progressive ideologies are the worst as they have slaughted millions of people because of those ideologies. In our country they will sacrifice everything for the sake of their idealism. They are the most dangerous to the American way of life as we know it. In reality there is very little difference between communism and fascism. Every time a progressive liberal cites Hitler I immediately think of Stalin or Pol Pot. Hardly any daylight between them.

That is why the politicization of the intelligence apparatus is so dangerous. If they behave as revolutionaries toward an elected President they will pluck out ordinary citizens like an ear hair. Should be a concern for every American.

Drake

Not just progressive liberals. I think when it comes to "manipulating the Press" you have to cite Sean Hannity and his attempt to blast the warrant on Cohen without disclosing that he was a client.

There are four basic principles for journalistic integrity and ethics. One of these four is to act independently:

– Avoid conflicts of interest, real or perceived. Disclose unavoidable conflicts.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What are you saying? Hannity has completely and totally ripped this invasion of Lawyer Client privilege. Are you smearing his good name by saying he was unethically trying to hide the fact that he, as a journalist, should have disclosed his relationship with Cohen?!

The sex thing was a joke. Cuz Cohen seems to be the sex hiding lawyer.

But Hannity has mentioned Cohen on his show a bunch of times. Don't you think he should have revealed his ties to Cohen?

I posit that he knew it would reveal a reason for his all in bias for Trump ; a personal interest ... or conflict of interest, rather.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"Hitler entered German democratic politics with the explicit agenda of destroying democracy." Crapitalism, Michael Faust

Trump with his attacks on the freedom of the media and the independent judiciary appears to have an implicit agenda of destroying democracy. Of course, several posters here have denied that America is a democracy. So I suppose in their minds there's no democracy to destroy. The idea that the USA is a democratic republic is apparently to complicated for them. It has to be one or the other.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Leftist and progressive ideologies are the worst as they have slaughted millions of people because of those ideologies. In our country they will sacrifice everything for the sake of their idealism. They are the most dangerous to the American way of life as we know it. In reality there is very little difference between communism and fascism. Every time a progressive liberal cites Hitler I immediately think of Stalin or Pol Pot. Hardly any daylight between them.

That is why the politicization of the intelligence apparatus is so dangerous. If they behave as revolutionaries toward an elected President they will pluck out ordinary citizens like an ear hair. Should be a concern for every American.

Drake

Yet by using the Press to mock and demonize the President 24/7, many (like our other beloved posters here) view his "assassination" as the greater good, and thus the death of democracy, and the rule of law.

I view left and right, not as directions on a line, but as directions on a circle. If you keep going in either direction, they both meet on the other side of the circle and appear indistinguishable. Hence Antifa and the KKK have much in common, with both denying the rights of those they oppose.

Case in point was Charlottesville. Antifa on the left became heroes and the Alt-right villainous, when in reality they both were motivated by hatred and intolerance, justifying violence, and became indistinguishable. Both sides were to be condemned, and btw there definitely was "good people on both sides." At least a few of each.

But the liberal Press spun the narrative, deceiving the entire nation, and once again demonized Trump, with the deceived claiming the Press is absolutely fair and unbiased.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So why would the US want to position itself in the midst of the Lord's final battle? Since Israel is rescued by the Lord's glorious appearing how is that instructive to the US to intervene? Likewise, how is the fact that the Lord is going to establish his reign for 1,000 years instructive to US foreign policy?

Again I don't see how any of this has anything to do with US foreign policy. Are you saying that since will be established at that time that we should not be peace makers in this age?

The civil war in Syria is because the nations around Israel want to extinguish her? Funny you should say that, some historians have said that the civil war in Syria is because Assad misread the earliest protests as an attempt by his enemies from foreign countries to topple him.

None of what you have shared is at all helpful to determining US policy.

ZNP, some of your historical perspective has become unhinged.

Over 150 million people in the last century died at the hands of their own government. The USA has been used as a force of good since WWI. Think about how we could be today without the efforts of the US?

The US stopped Germany twice, limited communism in Moscow and Beijing, stopped many tyrants, helped to spread democracy, propped up the UN, minimized famines, droughts, and calamities, and lastly has supported Israel. Without the USA, the Lord would have no nation of Israel to return to.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ZNP, some of your historical perspective has become unhinged.

Over 150 million people in the last century died at the hands of their own government. The USA has been used as a force of good since WWI. Think about how we could be today without the efforts of the US?

The US stopped Germany twice, limited communism in Moscow and Beijing, stopped many tyrants, helped to spread democracy, propped up the UN, minimized famines, droughts, and calamities, and lastly has supported Israel. Without the USA, the Lord would have no nation of Israel to return to.

I am not giving my perspective, I am asking for the prophecies that tell the US to gas Syria, or fight in Iraq.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am not giving my perspective, I am asking for the prophecies that tell the US to gas Syria, or fight in Iraq.

Sorry, I mistook you for someone else.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry, I mistook you for someone else.

What is really unhinged is when people go on and on about how "It is in the Bible" when they have actually no clue about what is or is not in the Bible.

Yes, Jesus will return to Israel, that is where Armageddon will be, and He will establish His kingdom for 1,000 years.

But what does any of that have to do with US foreign policy?

[ZNPaaneah]

This whole Hannity thing has me completely confused. First, Hannity says he didn't retain Cohen as a lawyer. That would tell me there is no Client lawyer privilege. However, he asked the court to keep his name secret. Why? On what basis, he has no confidentiality agreement since there is no client lawyer relationship?

Also, Cohen only has 3 clients: President of the US, Head of Republican Party, and Hannity. That doesn't make sense that a fair and impartial journalist would be so closely (and secretly) connected with the two most influential Republicans. Can anyone explain this?

One more thing, according to Hannity he only asked Cohen some innocent questions about real estate. Why the request to keep that secret?

Finally, I know that Hannity would never intentionally deceive us or let his own little issues color his commentary, so why allow all of those liberals out there a chance to vilify him over perceived conflict of interest?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yet by using the Press to mock and demonize the President 24/7, many (like our other beloved posters here) view his "assassination" as the greater good, and thus the death of democracy, and the rule of law.

I view left and right, not as directions on a line, but as directions on a circle. If you keep going in either direction, they both meet on the other side of the circle and appear indistinguishable. Hence Antifa and the KKK have much in common, with both denying the rights of those they oppose.

Case in point was Charlottesville. Antifa on the left became heroes and the Alt-right villainous, when in reality they both were motivated by hatred and intolerance, justifying violence, and became indistinguishable. Both sides were to be condemned, and btw there definitely was "good people on both sides." At least a few of each.

But the liberal Press spun the narrative, deceiving the entire nation, and once again demonized Trump, with the deceived claiming the Press is absolutely fair and unbiased.

Insightful.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What is really unhinged is when people go on and on about how "It is in the Bible" when they have actually no clue about what is or is not in the Bible.

Yes, Jesus will return to Israel, that is where Armageddon will be, and He will establish His kingdom for 1,000 years.

But what does any of that have to do with US foreign policy?

Did you ever consider that God may use nations on earth to help accomplish His plan?

If you say no, that God can do anything He wants with or without human help, then I would ask why the record of the Old Testament?

Perhaps God has used US foreign policy to assist His plans concerning Israel and to limit the expansion of evil in the world?

And, btw, to justify climate change in the Bible by using "sow what you reap" principles, is quite a stretch.

[ZNPaaneah]

Israeli intelligence reportedly says Trump's Syria strike failed, didn't take out much of anything

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Did you ever consider that God may use nations on earth to help accomplish His plan?

If you say no, that God can do anything He wants with or without human help, then I would ask why the record of the Old Testament?

Perhaps God has used US foreign policy to assist His plans concerning Israel and to limit the expansion of evil in the world?

And, btw, to justify climate change in the Bible by using "sow what you reap" principles, is quite a stretch.

Yes I have considered it. I have also considered that I am tired of people telling me what the Bible says who are unable to provide the verse reference. Stop playing God and give me the Bible verses that you are referring to.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes I have considered it. I have also considered that I am tired of people telling me what the Bible says who are unable to provide the verse reference. Stop playing God and give me the Bible verses that you are referring to.

I'm tired of all the Hitler references too.

Still haven't found him in the Bible.

Tired of people misquoting scripture too.

And tell that guy to quit "playing God."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump with his attacks on the freedom of the media and the independent judiciary appears to have an implicit agenda of destroying democracy. Of course, several posters here have denied that America is a democracy. So I suppose in their minds there's no democracy to destroy. The idea that the USA is a democratic republic is apparently to complicated for them. It has to be one or the other.

I thought the US was a constitutional republic, run by republicans.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm tired of all the Hitler references too.

Still haven't found him in the Bible.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." (Approaches to Auschwitz: the Holocaust and its legacy)

Jn 16:2 yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God.

One of its leaders succinctly stated: "Hitler is our Savior; it is to him that we must pray." (Salvation if from the Jews (John 4:22): The role of Judaism in Salvation History by Roy H Schoeman).

Hitler himself saw himself as a savior chosen and sent by God's providence who was able and willing to overcome the existing crisis. (Toward the Millennium: Messianic Expectations from the Bible to Waco by Peter Schafer, Mark R. Cohen).


Hitler saw himself as the "new messiah" who would liberate humanity from the Antichrist;127 he assumed the "role of savior" as the opponent of evil;128 and he stylized himself both as a "figure of redemption according to the Christian model" and as "the savior-hero of the German people. (Toward the Millennium: Messianic Expectations from the Bible to Waco by Peter Schafer, Mark R. Cohen).

denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Hitler, to his detriment, has become a 'mad Messiah who, as lord of the Chosen Race, was destined to establish the Kingdom of God on earth - a German kingdom of a German God. (Constructions of ‘the Jew’ in English literature and Society: Racial Representations, 1875-1945, Bryan Cheyenne)

11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I thought the US was a constitutional republic, run by republicans.

It is. It's also a democracy in the sense of government by the people, exercised through elected representatives.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Israeli intelligence reportedly says Trump's Syria strike failed, didn't take out much of anything

Pictures prove otherwise.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Pictures prove otherwise.

Pictures make for good theater but don't prove anything other than a building was blown up.

If you have 2 days to move all the computers, files, data and munitions then what are you losing in the attack?

Why would Israel make the US look bad, especially an administration that moved our Embassy to Jerusalem? This announcement by them had to have been vetted and scrutinized before they would say something like this.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm tired of all the Hitler references too.

Immediately, after January 1933 when Hitler became Chancellor he did two things that fully exposed his pernicious doctrine.

He spoke to the military in a speech that was very vague but made it very clear that he thought the solution to the economic woes was involving land and would require an expansionist policy. Yet it was vague as to the particulars or how he intended to carry that out.

Then behind closed doors to his cabinet he made it clear that every single dollar they had was to go to rearming and building up the military. Since that money was earmarked to put people back to work (like FDR's program) once spent on the military it would make the necessity for war inevitable and unavoidable.

This is just what Peter said

"secretly bring in destructive heresies"

[Drake]

-1

ZNP

Wow! You really are up obsessed with Hitler.

The other day I was looking at the clouds and I saw what looks like the distinct shape of a bunny.

But that wasn’t a real bunny. That was pareidolia.

I’m not dismissing the idea that we can learn from history, we really should. I just think sometimes you see too much in things. And I’m sure that Peter was not referring to Hitler, or bad actors like Hitler, when he talked about those who bring in destructive heresies.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm tired of all the Hitler references too.

In reference to this, this is interesting :

Trump 'uses the same propaganda methods as Hitler' says head of company which founded data mining firm Cambridge Analytica
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Analytica.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

In reference to this, this is interesting :

Trump 'uses the same propaganda methods as Hitler' says head of company which founded data mining firm Cambridge Analytica
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Analytica.html

Daily Mail can provide "proof" sourcing for every imagination known to man.

It's one of the best internet tabloids for keeping up on Hollywood gossip and conspiracy theories.

Wikipedia bans Daily Mail as 'unreliable' source

I can see why awareness loves it. It's so incredibly interesting. You could waste the whole day there.

.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Daily Mail can provide "proof" sourcing for every imagination known to man.

It's one of the best internet tabloids for keeping up on Hollywood gossip and conspiracy theories.

Wikipedia bans Daily Mail as 'unreliable' source

I can see why awareness loves it. It's so incredibly interesting. You could waste the whole day there.

.

Let's try this source ... From Times of Israel :

Trump used Muslims the way Hitler used Jews, says data mining boss
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-...a-mining-boss/

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

ZNP

Wow! You really are up obsessed with Hitler.

The other day I was looking at the clouds and I saw what looks like the distinct shape of a bunny.

But that wasn’t a real bunny. That was pareidolia.

I’m not dismissing the idea that we can learn from history, we really should. I just think sometimes you see too much in things. And I’m sure that Peter was not referring to Hitler, or bad actors like Hitler, when he talked about those who bring in destructive heresies.

Drake

Wow! Such assurance. Does this mean that when Hitler said he was offering God service by killing Jews that the Bible wasn't referring to him either? I suppose Peter wasn't referring to those who claimed that Hitler was their savior and they needed to pray to him instead of God. That doesn't count as "denying the master who bought them"? Hitler portrayed himself as the "Messiah" come to the "chosen race" in order to bring in a "new kingdom". I don't suppose you would say that Galatians was referring to this as "another gospel" to let them be "anathema".

Well you are certainly free to interpret the Bible, clouds, and Bunnies in any way you chose.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wow! Such assurance. Does this mean that when Hitler said he was offering God service by killing Jews that the Bible wasn't referring to him either? I suppose Peter wasn't referring to those who claimed that Hitler was their savior and they needed to pray to him instead of God. That doesn't count as "denying the master who bought them"? Hitler portrayed himself as the "Messiah" come to the "chosen race" in order to bring in a "new kingdom". I don't suppose you would say that Galatians was referring to this as "another gospel" to let them be "anathema".

Well you are certainly free to interpret the Bible, clouds, and Bunnies in any way you chose.

It was not Hitler's fault entirely but the peoples. Hitler was only as powerful as the people allowed him to be. If the people want a replacement for Christ, whether Hitler or American President, they are "denying the master who bought them".

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It was not Hitler's fault entirely but the peoples. Hitler was only as powerful as the people allowed him to be. If the people want a replacement for Christ, whether Hitler or American President, they are "denying the master who bought them".

Too simplistic.

1. At most 38% of Germans voted for Hitler during the depth of the great depression.

2. Some Germans made accurate and amazingly prescient predictions about what would happen if Hitler was in charge.

3. There was a great struggle to prevent Hitler from becoming Chancellor that put the entire government into a frozen situation.

4. The final compromise was thought to be able to contain Hitler and would have had he abided by the law, but it was naive to think he would.

5. luck played a key role, as he took power in 1933 Germany began to come out of the depression. Policies he didn't design or enact but then took credit for helped.

6. Also, Hitler was able to blame the previous 14 years of ineffective policy on others and ask the Germans to "give him 4 years" to see what he could do. This failure was the real reason Hitler even got 38% of the vote, and it is primarily due to an unrighteous and foolish peace treaty as well as the great depression.

7. Finally, the Reichstag fire by one lone person gave him the pretense to suspend any appearance of democracy.

I am not interested in giving the German people a pass, but would rather have a clear idea of what it was that could cause this country to make such a terrible blunder.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wow! Such assurance. Does this mean that when Hitler said he was offering God service by killing Jews that the Bible wasn't referring to him either? I suppose Peter wasn't referring to those who claimed that Hitler was their savior and they needed to pray to him instead of God. That doesn't count as "denying the master who bought them"? Hitler portrayed himself as the "Messiah" come to the "chosen race" in order to bring in a "new kingdom". I don't suppose you would say that Galatians was referring to this as "another gospel" to let them be "anathema".

Well you are certainly free to interpret the Bible, clouds, and Bunnies in any way you chose.

I would say that Hitler, like so many bad actors foreshadow the ultimate bad actor Antichrist. All of them to some extent have those attributes. They are all beasts.

But we should not conflate the kingdoms of the world and their exercise power with things like heresies that creep into the church.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

I would say that Hitler, like so many bad actors foreshadow the ultimate bad actor Antichrist. All of them to some extent have those attributes. They are all beasts.

But we should not conflate the kingdoms of the world and their exercise power with things like heresies that creep into the church.

Drake

Why? What is your scriptural basis?

If a church is involved in politics is that prohibited in the NT?

So then if a church is pro life are you saying that is prohibited? If not how do you distinguish? How is it that "pro life" can be a Christian doctrine, yet "pro choice" cannot be viewed as a heresy?

If Antichrist requires you to have his number on your forehead before you can buy or sell, is that a heresy? If the church is teaching you not to do that as it is idolatrous, is that a Christian teaching?

Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world" is that a Christian teaching? If so, why isn't someone who claims that the fulfillment of prophecy is the setting up of a 1,000 year kingdom on earth (3rd Reich) a heresy?

Are you aware that Christian hymns were changed to incorporate Nazi teachings? Why wouldn't they be considered heresies?

Nazi supporters among the Catholic priesthood accepted the National Socialist view that 'the entire international ecumenical movement worked against the German Reich. (Confronting the Nazi War on Christianity: The Kulturkampf Newsletters, 1936-1939)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why? What is your scriptural basis?

If a church is involved in politics is that prohibited in the NT?

So then if a church is pro life are you saying that is prohibited? If not how do you distinguish? How is it that "pro life" can be a Christian doctrine, yet "pro choice" cannot be viewed as a heresy?

If Antichrist requires you to have his number on your forehead before you can buy or sell, is that a heresy? If the church is teaching you not to do that as it is idolatrous, is that a Christian teaching?

Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world" is that a Christian teaching? If so, why isn't someone who claims that the fulfillment of prophecy is the setting up of a 1,000 year kingdom on earth (3rd Reich) a heresy?

Are you aware that Christian hymns were changed to incorporate Nazi teachings? Why wouldn't they be considered heresies?

Nazi supporters among the Catholic priesthood accepted the National Socialist view that 'the entire international ecumenical movement worked against the German Reich. (Confronting the Nazi War on Christianity: The Kulturkampf Newsletters, 1936-1939)

ZNP, you are almost becoming obsessed with Nazis, like you were before with ancient aliens.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why? What is your scriptural basis?

If a church is involved in politics is that prohibited in the NT?

So then if a church is pro life are you saying that is prohibited? If not how do you distinguish? How is it that "pro life" can be a Christian doctrine, yet "pro choice" cannot be viewed as a heresy?

If Antichrist requires you to have his number on your forehead before you can buy or sell, is that a heresy? If the church is teaching you not to do that as it is idolatrous, is that a Christian teaching?

Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world" is that a Christian teaching? If so, why isn't someone who claims that the fulfillment of prophecy is the setting up of a 1,000 year kingdom on earth (3rd Reich) a heresy?

Are you aware that Christian hymns were changed to incorporate Nazi teachings? Why wouldn't they be considered heresies?

The scriptural evidence is the very verse you quoted 2 Peter 2:1.

"....But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."

The ones who brought in destructive heresies were among them, and denying the Lord.

That is why I say we should discriminate between the world powers and their outward exercise of power (the vision of the statue in Daniel, the time of the gentiles) from the heresies that are brought in by false teachers who are in the church, operating secretly, and deny the Lord.

Without making a distinction between the two you will amalgamate politics and church orthodoxy.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ZNP, you are almost becoming obsessed with Nazis, like you were before with ancient aliens.

I am simply responding to Drake.

My concern is to watch carefully more and more as we see the day drawing near.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

The scriptural evidence is the very verse you quoted 2 Peter 2:1.

"....But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."

The ones who brought in destructive heresies were among them, and denying the Lord.

That is why I say we should discriminate between the world powers and their outward exercise of power (the vision of the statue in Daniel, the time of the gentiles) from the heresies that are brought in by false teachers who are in the church, operating secretly, and deny the Lord.

Without making a distinction between the two you will amalgamate politics and church orthodoxy.

Drake

If Hitler portrays himself as "savior" isn't that a denial of the Lord who bought us?

If Nazi leaders say we need to pray to Hitler and not God, isn't that a denial of the Lord who bought us?

Caesar Nero is the type given to us of the Antichrist, how does that type suggest that we should distinguish between government rulers and the church?

The value, to me, in studying Hitler is any insight it gives on identifying the Antichrist and the "many antichrists" that John refers to. From my understanding the Antichrist will be a political leader -- therefore it seems counterproductive to pretend they operate in a different sphere wholly separate from false prophets.

The mouth of Antichrist is one of its leading characteristics. (Expanded Biblical Comments — Commentary of the Old and New Testament by Charles Taze Russell)

It seems to me that these titles are equally applicable to both Nero and Hitler.

1. The Bloody and Deceitful man.
- Psalms 5:6 (KJV) Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

2. The Wicked One.
- Psalms 10:3-4 (KJV) 3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth. 4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

3. The Man of the Earth.
- Psalms 10:18 (KJV) To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.

4. The Mighty Man.
- Psalms 52:1 (KJV) Why boastest thou thyself in mischief, O mighty man? the goodness of God endureth continually.

5. The Enemy.
- Psalms 55:3 (KJV) Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me.

6. The Adversary.
- Psalms 74:10 (KJV) O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?

7. The Violent Man.
- Psalms 140:1 (KJV) Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;

8. The Spoiler.
- Isaiah 16:4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

9. The Profane and Wicked Prince.
- Ezekiel 21:25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

10. The Little Horn.
- Daniel 7:8 (KJV) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

11. The Prince that Shall come.
- Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

12. The Vile Person.
- Daniel 11:21 (KJV) And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

13. The Willful King.
- Daniel 11:36 (KJV) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

14. The Man of Sin.
- 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

15. The Son of Perdition.
- 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

16. The Lawless One.
- 2 Thessalonians 2:9 (KJV) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

17. The Antichrist.
- 1 John 2:22 (KJV) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

18. The Beast.
- Revelation 11:7 (KJV) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
- Revelation 13:1 (KJV) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If Hitler portrays himself as "savior" isn't that a denial of the Lord who bought us?

If Nazi leaders say we need to pray to Hitler and not God, isn't that a denial of the Lord who bought us?

The value, to me, in studying Hitler is any insight it gives on identifying the Antichrist and the "many antichrists" that John refers to. From my understanding the Antichrist will be a political leader -- therefore it seems counterproductive to pretend they operate in a different sphere wholly separate from false prophets.

The antichrist "man of sin" will come on the scene amidst huge celebration, restoring peace and prosperity and provide great liberty for Israel, who will be readily convinced that he is their long-awaited Messiah, "fulfilling" all the prophecies. Initially he will look nothing like all the descriptors you just posted.

Main stream media will love him and by then, with the death of Rupert Murdoch, Fox News as we know it, will be over. We are already seeing conservative censorship beginning to take off. Twitter even Blocks Girl with Down Syndrome for Posting ‘Pro-Life Pictures.’

Looking to Hitler for insight concerning this antichrist might lead you off course.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The antichrist "man of sin" will come on the scene amidst huge celebration, restoring peace and prosperity and provide great liberty for Israel, who will be readily convinced that he is their long-awaited Messiah, "fulfilling" all the prophecies. Initially he will look nothing like all the descriptors you just posted.

Hitler came onto the scene amidst huge celebrations. You may remember the incredible theatrical assemblies of huge crowds of chanting and adoring Germans.

His first few months there was a hint of him restoring peace and prosperity as Germany came out of the depression, there were more jobs, and many of the young people were given something to do unlike the years before.

Hitler was lauded as the "messiah" and "savior" of the German people.

So then, initially Hitler looked exactly like the descriptors you have given. What stumbles everyone about Hitler is they always associate him with the end of the story and forget the beginning.

According to the paper the audience rushed to the tribune of honor after the ceremonies, demanding that Hitler appear; joy and applause followed him wherever he appeared in the festive city. (Nazi Olympics: Sport, Politics, and Appeasement in the 1930s)

It was Hitler's good fortune that the world economy began to recover in the spring of 1933. (The Holocaust: The Fate of European Jewry, 1932-1945)

In 1932, the year before Hitler came to power, unemployment in Germany had reached 20 percent and 6 million citizens were out of work; the following year, that figure was cut in half, and by 1938 Germany had a labor shortage. (The Library of Congress World War II Companion, by David M. Kennedy)

Originally Posted by Ohio

Main stream media will love him and by then, with the death of Rupert Murdoch, Fox News as we know it, will be over. We are already seeing conservative censorship beginning to take off. Twitter even Blocks Girl with Down Syndrome for Posting ‘Pro-Life Pictures.’

Looking to Hitler for insight concerning this antichrist might lead you off course.

On the contrary one of the very first things Hitler did when he took power was to censor main stream media and attack it relentlessly (because they in turn were attacking and ridiculing him).

With daily orders from Hitler, they issued press directives calling for printing an unprecedented amount of anti-Semitic propaganda in the thousands of German newspapers and periodicals subject to the control of the Press Office. (The Jewish Enemy, by Jeffrey Herf)

Press ownership made little practical difference, since the NSDAP rapidly established comprehensive control over newspaper content. (Bending Spines: The Propagandas of Nazi Germany and the German Democratic Republic, by Randall l. Bytwerk)

In April of 1935, Joseph Goebbels, as head of the Reich Chamber of Literature, became the ultimate censoring authority (World Literacy: How Countries Rank and Why it Matters by John W Miller, Michael C. McKenna)

The Hitler regime employed a combination of policies designed to create consensus, as well as censorship, aiming to ensure that access to other sources of information or ways of thought was unavailable. (Education in Nazi Germany, by Lisa Pine)

It is ridiculous to ignore Nero since he has been given as an example. Also, John says that there have been many antichrists. So to me it is like an oak tree. If you can identify one, you can identify many of them. I think it is undoubtable that Hitler is one example of these "many antichrists".

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We are already seeing conservative censorship beginning to take off. Twitter even Blocks Girl with Down Syndrome for Posting ‘Pro-Life Pictures.’

In the United States, the concentration of ownership in the media industry has become an extremely troubling trend. In 1981, Ben Bagdikian found that 46 corporations owned or controlled the majority of media outlets in the United States. As of 2013, that number had shrunk to six corporations (Media Literacy: Keys to Interpreting Media Messages, 4th Edition)

Advertisers, not governments, are the primary censors of media content in the United States today. (Provocateur: Images of Women and Minorities in Advertising by Anthony J Cortese)

In the United States, about two-thirds of the revenues of newspapers and magazines come from advertising, while broadcasting is almost entirely dependent upon advertising for its profits. (Censorship: A World Encyclopedia by Derek Jones)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

In the United States, the concentration of ownership in the media industry has become an extremely troubling trend. In 1981, Ben Bagdikian found that 46 corporations owned or controlled the majority of media outlets in the United States. As of 2013, that number had shrunk to six corporations (Media Literacy: Keys to Interpreting Media Messages, 4th Edition)

Advertisers, not governments, are the primary censors of media content in the United States today. (Provocateur: Images of Women and Minorities in Advertising by Anthony J Cortese)

In the United States, about two-thirds of the revenues of newspapers and magazines come from advertising, while broadcasting is almost entirely dependent upon advertising for its profits. (Censorship: A World Encyclopedia by Derek Jones)

Don't blame advertisers, or even governments, for censorship.

F.A.N.G. is far more dangerous.

Google Lawsuit: Senior Engineer Alon Altman Wanted to Sabotage Trump’s Android Phone, Ban His Gmail Account

.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Don't blame advertisers, or even governments, for censorship.

F.A.N.G. is far more dangerous.

Google Lawsuit: Senior Engineer Alon Altman Wanted to Sabotage Trump’s Android Phone, Ban His Gmail Account

.

What is F.A.N.G.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What is F.A.N.G.

Acronym for Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google.

Multi-Billion-Dollar Silicone Valley Tech Giants.

It would include others like Twitter.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Acronym for Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google.

Multi-Billion-Dollar Silicone Valley Tech Giants.

It would include others like Twitter.

Facebook and Google are creations of Advertisers. It is their dream.

[awareness]

This just in :

The US government has been secretly collecting documents on 'remote mind control' and 'forced memory blanking', accidentally leaked files suggest. In what sounds like a plot from the X-files, they revealed research into bizarre 'psycho-electronic' weaponry

Fox News Link

[ZNPaaneah]

Russia Says It Told U.S. Where In Syria It Was Allowed To Bomb

Like I said, nothing but a show.

[zeek]

"For years, a joke among Trump Tower employees was that the boss was like Manhattan’s First Avenue, where the traffic goes only one way.

That one-sidedness has always been at the heart of President Trump’s relationship with his longtime lawyer and fixer, Michael D. Cohen, who has said he would “take a bullet” for Mr. Trump.

For years Mr. Trump treated Mr. Cohen poorly, with gratuitous insults, dismissive statements and, at least twice, threats of being fired, according to interviews with a half-dozen people familiar with their relationship.

Now, for the first time, the traffic may be going Mr. Cohen’s way."

[zeek]

"Democratic Party sues Russia, Trump campaign and WikiLeaks alleging 2016 campaign conspiracy." I hope they make them pay and prevent it from happening again.

[zeek]

"The revelation this week that the two men [Hannity and Trump] share an attorney is just the latest sign of how Hannity is intertwined with Trump’s world — an increasingly powerful confidant who offers the *media-driven president a sympathetic ear and shared grievances.

The conservative commentator is so close to Trump that some White House aides have dubbed him the unofficial chief of staff.

For a president who feels, intensely, that he is under siege, Hannity offers what he prizes: loyalty and a mass audience."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Democratic Party sues Russia, Trump campaign and WikiLeaks alleging 2016 campaign conspiracy." I hope they make them pay and prevent it from happening again.

The vultures are circling

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Democratic Party sues Russia, Trump campaign and WikiLeaks alleging 2016 campaign conspiracy." I hope they make them pay and prevent it from happening again.

How do you sue the Russian nation?

Is this just to distract us from the anti-sanctuary city revolution going on in California?

This is purely political campaign fund-raising.

Is this what they selected chair Tom Perez to do?

What you are not hearing is how vulnerable this makes the DNC. Discovery goes both ways. For starters, lets talk about how the DNC rigged the primary against Bernie Sanders.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How do you sue the Russian nation?

Is this just to distract us from the anti-sanctuary city revolution going on in California?

This is purely political campaign fund-raising.

Is this what they selected chair Tom Perez to do?

What you are not hearing is how vulnerable this makes the DNC. Discovery goes both ways. For starters, lets talk about how the DNC rigged the primary against Bernie Sanders.

They realize he is going down, they want to make sure he doesn't get back up. In the event he isn't impeached they want to empty out any campaign warchest so that he is unable to run again.

Also, they want to open up a new front for his legal team to fight, if he is involved in multiple legal battles it is hard for him to fight all of them.

This may sound like a joke but if they can subpoena witnesses and drag them through court it won't be a joke to those who are being sued.

God is not mocked, whatever a man sows, this shall he also reap.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The vultures are circling

The turkeys have landed!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How do you sue the Russian nation?

Is this just to distract us from the anti-sanctuary city revolution going on in California?

This is purely political campaign fund-raising.

Is this what they selected chair Tom Perez to do?

What you are not hearing is how vulnerable this makes the DNC. Discovery goes both ways. For starters, lets talk about how the DNC rigged the primary against Bernie Sanders.

Yep.

Political foolery. Exposes the Mueller investigation for what it was all along. Apparently Mueller not getting the job done so the DNC launch this fake lawsuit to move it along.

It could not have worked out better.

Only thing that can save the DNC from themselves is for a judge to toss the lawsuit out as frivolous. I hope s/he doesn’t. Would like to see Obama and his merry gang on the stand doing some splainin.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

The turkeys have landed!

That was more than a year ago.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

Yep.

Political foolery. Exposes the Mueller investigation for what it was all along. Apparently Mueller not getting the job done so the DNC launch this fake lawsuit to move it along.

It could not have worked out better.

Only thing that can save the DNC from themselves is for a judge to toss the lawsuit out as frivolous. I hope s/he doesn’t. Would like to see Obama and his merry gang on the stand doing some splainin.

Drake

I see it differently. I think the DNC realized that the dam was about to burst and they needed to get involved now before they missed out. They also want to make sure they can get the testimony and evidence out into the public before the midterm elections. The timing was not due to procrastination but rather political opportunism. If you are running for a republican seat do you tie your chances to Trump knowing there are three different trials going on, any of which are primed to have major news prior to November?

Does anyone really think that Cohen is not guilty of election finance regulations? No one cared about Stormy Daniels until they realized Trump had a chance to win two weeks before the election. Does anyone really think Cohen doesn't have dirt on Trump he could exchange for a lenient sentence?

There is no way any judge signs this warrant without substantial evidence of wrongdoing. Cohen was under electronic surveillance for months. The word is that he was discussing destroying documents -- that would be obstruction of justice.

Finally the NY DA is not restricted to the parameters of the special prosecutor. If they find financial fraud, including misrepresenting your assets for the purpose of getting a loan, i.e. bank fraud, they can prosecute. It will be political suicide for the NY DA to not come away with a conviction on Cohen. The only justification will be a guilty verdict in a felony: Campaign finance violations, obstruction of justice, conspiring to commit a felony, extortion (his testimony can go a long way to proving Stormy Daniels allegations), Bank fraud.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

They realize he is going down, they want to make sure he doesn't get back up. In the event he isn't impeached they want to empty out any campaign warchest so that he is unable to run again.

Also, they want to open up a new front for his legal team to fight, if he is involved in multiple legal battles it is hard for him to fight all of them.

This may sound like a joke but if they can subpoena witnesses and drag them through court it won't be a joke to those who are being sued.

God is not mocked, whatever a man sows, this shall he also reap.

Who is going down?

Trump's approval ratings are at all time high!

You guys obviously are not getting the true news.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I see it differently. I think the DNC realized that the dam was about to burst and they needed to get involved now before they missed out. They also want to make sure they can get the testimony and evidence out into the public before the midterm elections. The timing was not due to procrastination but rather political opportunism. If you are running for a republican seat do you tie your chances to Trump knowing there are three different trials going on, any of which are primed to have major news prior to November?

Does anyone really think that Cohen is not guilty of election finance regulations? No one cared about Stormy Daniels until they realized Trump had a chance to win two weeks before the election. Does anyone really think Cohen doesn't have dirt on Trump he could exchange for a lenient sentence?

There is no way any judge signs this warrant without substantial evidence of wrongdoing. Cohen was under electronic surveillance for months. The word is that he was discussing destroying documents -- that would be obstruction of justice.

Finally the NY DA is not restricted to the parameters of the special prosecutor. If they find financial fraud, including misrepresenting your assets for the purpose of getting a loan, i.e. bank fraud, they can prosecute. It will be political suicide for the NY DA to not come away with a conviction on Cohen. The only justification will be a guilty verdict in a felony: Campaign finance violations, obstruction of justice, conspiring to commit a felony, extortion (his testimony can go a long way to proving Stormy Daniels allegations), Bank fraud.

Why don't you mention all the investigations going on concerning Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Lynch, Clinton, etc.?

Muller has nothing on the Trump administration other that he likes his women pretty. Salacious for sure, but not illegal, and not abusive.

And remember, when you are "up to your neck in alligators," your original objective was to "drain the swamp," iow Muller was assigned to investigate election collusion, and there is none. This proves that his entire investigation, fueled by Rosenstein, Strzok, and others, was never about "collusion," rather it was a deep state coup.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why don't you mention all the investigations going on concerning Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Lynch, Clinton, etc.?

Because it wasn't relevant to the DNC suit.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Muller has nothing on the Trump administration other that he likes his women pretty. Salacious for sure, but not illegal, and not abusive.

Mueller has not revealed what he has.

Originally Posted by Ohio

And remember, when you are "up to your neck in alligators," your original objective was to "drain the swamp," iow Muller was assigned to investigate election collusion, and there is none. This proves that his entire investigation, fueled by Rosenstein, Strzok, and others, was never about "collusion," rather it was a deep state coup.

We have already discussed all the pieces to prove that puzzle. I'll wait until his investigation is over to make any conclusions about what evidence he does or does not have and what did or did not happen. But since you like reading tea leaves and Awareness likes studying the stars, I'll let you know how I read the situation.

I think the indictment of Cohen caught Trump by surprise, so no information is being leaked from Mueller's investigation. Trump appeared very concerned by this and I think the recent addition of Rudy G to his team is an expression of that concern as well as his signaling his willingness to pardon reprehensible criminals. I expect Cohen to be indicted on very serious felonies. I don't think a judge would have authorized electronic surveillance without real information of a possible felony. I think that Mueller learned of Cohen's intention to destroy evidence of a crime, which is why he revealed the wire tap. I think that the NY DA now has a treasure trove of documents, tapes, and the fruit of months of electronic surveillance that should have Trump's lawyers terrified. However, I expect it could take a month to go through everything they have seized, maybe two months and they will not want to question witnesses or write an indictment until they have had a chance to go through everything.

Now I expect that one of the nuggets that they will find is that Trump lied about his assets to a number of lenders that he later declared bankruptcy to. Therefore every single creditor that lost money in loans to Trump may decide to sue him for fraud.

I also expect that Cohen could be looking at more than 20 years, a very strong incentive to flip. If he confirms Stormy Daniels story about being threatened and that this was part of the Trump modis operandi then he could be charged with extortion and racketeering. If Cohen was going to destroy documents that would be obstruction of justice and who knows, Trump could be tied to that.

In short, I could envision Trump being embroiled in a multitude of lawsuits as well as criminal trials. This would certainly rise to the level of "high crimes and misdemeanors". So keeping impeachment off the table will depend on the Midterms. Unfortunately for Trump it looks like we will be seeing a steady stream of revelations, indictments, and lawsuits from now until November.

Finally, I don't think you are considering the full picture revealed by these polls. When Trump won the election he didn't have a majority of votes and the democrats were split between Clinton supporters and Bernie supporters who felt betrayed by Clinton. Trump won as much due to voters staying home as he did by his base. But from my very unscientific polling of the democratic electorate they are highly motivated to show up and vote this time, much more so than last time.

[ZNPaaneah]

The federal statute prohibiting bank fraud makes it a crime knowingly to obtain by false pretenses funds under the control or custody of a financial institution. (Essentials of Business Law and the Legal Environment, by Richard A. Mann, Barry S. Roberts)

Referred to as state-corporate crime, these violations include fraud in taxation, bank loans, and mortgages (Crime and Punishment in America: An Encyclopedia of Trends in Controversies in the Justice System, by Laura L. Finley)

Offenses that will result in disqualification as a bidder include loan kickbacks, theft or embezzlement by bank personnel or federal regulators, false bank entries, fraud on the FDIC, concealment of assets, certain types of mail fraud, and bank fraud. (Banks and Thrifts: Government Enforcement and Receivership by Barry S. Zisman)

In the United States, according to their judicial code, a person found guilty of committing the offense of fraud or a swindle is liable to a punishment of an imprisonment term of up to 20 years, a fine, or both (Legal Information Institute, 2008). (The Psychology of Criminal and Antisocial Behavior: Victim and Offender by Wayne Petherick, Grant Cinnamon)

[awareness]

Cal Thomas: Are today's Evangelicals following Jesus or following Trump?

"“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other.” (Matthew 6:24)

The verse refers to money, but in light of today’s debate about the unaccountable devotion many Christian leaders have for President Trump it is not a stretch to apply it to their relationship with him."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...ing-trump.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Cal Thomas: Are today's Evangelicals following Jesus or following Trump?

"“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other.” (Matthew 6:24)

The verse refers to money, but in light of today’s debate about the unaccountable devotion many Christian leaders have for President Trump it is not a stretch to apply it to their relationship with him."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...ing-trump.html

I think I have been quite strict in my critique of Trump. But if you ask me "do you disapprove or approve of his job in office" that is a very different question.

1. It has nothing to do with Mueller who has not brought a single charge against him.

2. It has nothing to do with Stormy Daniels who has not alleged a single incident while Trump has been president. Nothing to do with Cohen.

These polls are easy to manipulate and it is quite obvious that the "fake news" is attempting to discredit christians. Not only do they insinuate that approval for Trump's job equates to approval for his behavior prior to being president. They also slide over the fact that these polls identified "white evangelicals" obviously different from red, black, brown and yellow evangelicals. Yet they don't mention that this only refers to about 6% of those who identify as evangelical.

The real poll is the Roy Moore election -- clearly Trump's base which is supposed to be quite strong there did not respond to him. The real poll will be in November.

[Ohio]

Our resident quack named Drake today compared Prof Nigel Tomes to Maxine Waters.

We should all take a quick look at Mad Max "Peach Foty Fi" at her SOTU address.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Our resident quack named Drake today compared Prof Nigel Tomes to Maxine Waters.

We should all take a quick look at Mad Max "Peach Foty Fi" at her SOTU address.

That's some crazy manure. If ya get my drift? Isn't that from the movie Idiocracy? by the maker of Beavis and Butt-Head? It was a funny movie.

I suppose idiocracy is a shot at Maxine. And you took a shot a bro Drake.

Hey, two birdies with one stone -- mother Mary - ye without sin. Two for two.

You could have at least told us where bro Drake related Tomes to Waters. I'd like to see his reasoning on that. I don't know, but is he a deplorable?

[awareness]

Recently zeek post this on the Bible v Science thread. I copied it to here :

Zeek:
A geologist on why Kim Jong-un may have halted nuclear testing program in North Korea. https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn.../#7838212064c2

Originally Posted by zeek

A geologist on why Kim Jong-un may have halted nuclear testing program in North Korea. https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn.../#7838212064c2

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's some crazy manure. If ya get my drift? Isn't that from the movie Idiocracy? by the maker of Beavis and Butt-Head? It was a funny movie.

I suppose idiocracy is a shot at Maxine. And you took a shot a bro Drake.

Hey, two birdies with one stone -- mother Mary - ye without sin. Two for two.

You could have at least told us where bro Drake related Tomes to Waters. I'd like to see his reasoning on that. I don't know, but is he a deplorable?

It disappeared.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It disappeared.

It's a mystery. The mystery of the vanishing posts and threads on LCD. There must be a higher power involved.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's a mystery. The mystery of the vanishing posts and threads on LCD. There must be a higher power involved.

It's his anti-political bias.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Recently zeek post this on the Bible v Science thread. I copied it to here :

Zeek:
A geologist on why Kim Jong-un may have halted nuclear testing program in North Korea. https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn.../#7838212064c2

Trump is very smart to force Kim to use his own resources to the max and destroy his own environment first, to a point where he could not continue testing without harming himself and his own people. I think this was the plan all along by Trump, I see that now. Successful nuclear countries have lots of desert or ocean to play in, and NK does not have that.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Trump is very smart to force Kim to use his own resources to the max and destroy his own environment first, to a point where he could not continue testing without harming himself and his own people. I think this was the plan all along by Trump, I see that now. Successful nuclear countries have lots of desert or ocean to play in, and NK does not have that.

"I'm a very stable genius" - Tweet by Donald John Trump ... 7:30am Jan 6. 2018.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Trump is very smart to force Kim to use his own resources to the max and destroy his own environment first, to a point where he could not continue testing without harming himself and his own people. I think this was the plan all along by Trump, I see that now. Successful nuclear countries have lots of desert or ocean to play in, and NK does not have that.

Right. Believe me. I've got a great investment deal on the Brooklyn Bridge for a guy like you.

[Ohio]

The US Army physician Dr. Jennifer Pena assigned to V.P. Pence has been identified as the source of the smears which were leaked to the Press through Senator Tester of Montana, ranking Democrat on the Veteran's Affairs Committee.

VP Pence Physician Behind Ronny Jackson Attacks

According to four administration officials, the main allegations were brought forth by Vice President Mike Pence’s Army physician Dr. Jennifer Pena, who is assigned to Pence by the White House Medical Unit and does not work directly for the office of the Vice President. Those officials contend Pena has held a long-time grudge against Jackson because of his continuing promotions in the White House. She began her career at the White House during the Obama administration. According to the officials, Pena, who is still active military and assigned to the White House Military Office, did not follow proper protocol to report on the allegations. Instead, she went directly to the Senate with the support of some current and former White House medical staff who were her loyalists. None of the allegations she allegedly brought forth have been substantiated.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The US Army physician Dr. Jennifer Pena assigned to V.P. Pence has been identified as the source of the smears which were leaked to the Press through Senator Tester of Montana, ranking Democrat on the Veteran's Affairs Committee.

VP Pence Physician Behind Ronny Jackson Attacks

Well now, that's interesting. I suspect there's more to this story. Something like, the scorn of a jilted lover.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The US Army physician Dr. Jennifer Pena assigned to V.P. Pence has been identified as the source of the smears which were leaked to the Press through Senator Tester of Montana, ranking Democrat on the Veteran's Affairs Committee.

VP Pence Physician Behind Ronny Jackson Attacks

"You're Fired!" One more time "you're fired". I can't hear you "you're fired"! Louder "you're fired"! Everybody now "you're fired"!..........................

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Well now, that's interesting. I suspect there's more to this story. Something like, the scorn of a jilted lover.

Perhaps. Haven't heard that yet.

Can't fire a woman! If Pena gets fired, the liberals will shout "See, Pence is a misogynist!"

Btw, Sara A. Carter is one of the top journalists in America. Try reading her articles. If you dare!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Right. Believe me. I've got a great investment deal on the Brooklyn Bridge for a guy like you.

I own that bridge. You can't sell it!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Btw, Sara A. Carter is one of the top journalists in America. Try reading her articles. If you dare!

Why not bypass her and go directly to Hannity?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Why not bypass her and go directly to Hannity?

You want me to tell you what to do? How's that gonna work?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You want me to tell you what to do? How's that gonna work?

Not very well, unless you're paying me.

But that doesn't work for Hannity's renters. He just jacks the rent on them.

[zeek]

Stay away from the Mafia if you don't want to get hurt. Godfather Trump called his thugs on his longtime faithful doctor. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...e-took-n870351

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Stay away from the Mafia if you don't want to get hurt. Godfather Trump called his thugs on his longtime faithful doctor. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...e-took-n870351

Sanders said that that is a "standard operating procedure for a new president"

She didn't deny that Spanky ordered it.

[ZNPaaneah]

I for one am so glad this whole Mueller investigation is coming to an end. All Trump needs to do is answer a couple of questions and then that is it. Thank God. Something he has absolutely wanted to do for months. Also I appreciate, based on his previous discussion on this topic, that he won't degrade himself by taking the 5th.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I for one am so glad this whole Mueller investigation is coming to an end. All Trump needs to do is answer a couple of questions and then that is it. Thank God. Something he has absolutely wanted to do for months. Also I appreciate, based on his previous discussion on this topic, that he won't degrade himself by taking the 5th.

He fired Ty Cobb and hired Clinton's impeachment lawyer Emmet Flood. Must be something there.

[ZNPaaneah]

Trump Backs Rudy Giuliani's Claim That No Campaign Money Went To Stormy Daniels

Are they stupid or are they intentionally ignorant, that is the question.

Giving $130,000 to Stormy Daniels to keep quiet 2 weeks before the presidential election can and should be seen as a campaign contribution. That is the violation of campaign finance law.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I for one am so glad this whole Mueller investigation is coming to an end. All Trump needs to do is answer a couple of questions and then that is it. Thank God. Something he has absolutely wanted to do for months. Also I appreciate, based on his previous discussion on this topic, that he won't degrade himself by taking the 5th.

It is estimated that all these leaked questions would take a week to answer.

Sorry if the Muller perjury trap is too difficult for you to understand.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Trump Backs Rudy Giuliani's Claim That No Campaign Money Went To Stormy Daniels

Are they stupid or are they intentionally ignorant, that is the question.

Giving $130,000 to Stormy Daniels to keep quiet 2 weeks before the presidential election can and should be seen as a campaign contribution. That is the violation of campaign finance law.

When did we have anything like this with Obama? Can you imagine that, and what the pubbies would be doing with it? what bro Ohio would be saying?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Trump Backs Rudy Giuliani's Claim That No Campaign Money Went To Stormy Daniels

Are they stupid or are they intentionally ignorant, that is the question.

Giving $130,000 to Stormy Daniels to keep quiet 2 weeks before the presidential election can and should be seen as a campaign contribution. That is the violation of campaign finance law.

Have you forgotten about Russian collusion?

They are still looking for some evidence.

Perhaps they found it.

Stormy is a KGB agent!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

When did we have anything like this with Obama? Can you imagine that, and what the pubbies would be doing with it? what bro Ohio would be saying?

What's a "pubbies" and why are you using my name in vain?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

He fired Ty Cobb and hired Clinton's impeachment lawyer Emmet Flood. Must be something there.

Giuliani stated, “Here’s what it’s all about…are they objective? Are they? Well, right now, a lot of things point in the direction of they made up their mind that Comey’s telling the truth and not the president. When you look at those questions about, what does the president think? What does the president feel? What does the president really desire? Those are all questions intended to trap him in some way in contradicting what is, in fact, a very, very solid explanation of what happened. He fired Comey because Comey would not, among other things, say that he wasn’t a target of the investigation. He’s entitled that. Hillary Clinton got that, and he couldn’t get that.”

I agree with Rudy. Comey is a pathetic liar, a disgrace to the entire FBI. McCabe too.

But Muller intends to make Comey the "Standard" for the "Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth."

Disagree with Comey and Trump is "guilty" of perjury.

And you guys have the nerve to call this "Justice." Shame on you!

This is how they got General Flynn, and he was not even under oath or represented by a lawyer. Where was the outcry when he was fired, disgraced, lost his pension, went bankrupt?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Giuliani stated, “Here’s what it’s all about…are they objective? Are they? Well, right now, a lot of things point in the direction of they made up their mind that Comey’s telling the truth and not the president. When you look at those questions about, what does the president think? What does the president feel? What does the president really desire? Those are all questions intended to trap him in some way in contradicting what is, in fact, a very, very solid explanation of what happened. He fired Comey because Comey would not, among other things, say that he wasn’t a target of the investigation. He’s entitled that. Hillary Clinton got that, and he couldn’t get that.”

I agree with Rudy. Comey is a pathetic liar, a disgrace to the entire FBI. McCabe too.

But Muller intends to make Comey the "Standard" for the "Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth."

Disagree with Comey and Trump is "guilty" of perjury.

And you guys have the nerve to call this "Justice." Shame on you!

This is how they got General Flynn, and he was not even under oath or represented by a lawyer. Where was the outcry when he was fired, disgraced, lost his pension, went bankrupt?

You left out the Liar in Chief. You seem to have a blind spot where he is concerned.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You left out the Liar in Chief. You seem to have a blind spot where he is concerned.

And only your liberal friends like Barry, Bill and Hillary are innocent until proven guilty?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is estimated that all these leaked questions would take a week to answer.

So what, Trump has spent 100+ days playing golf, he calls into talk shows at Fox and talks until they have to try and get him to stop. It isn't like he has anything better to do.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Giuliani stated, “Here’s what it’s all about…are they objective? Are they? Well, right now, a lot of things point in the direction of they made up their mind that Comey’s telling the truth and not the president. When you look at those questions about, what does the president think? What does the president feel? What does the president really desire? Those are all questions intended to trap him in some way in contradicting what is, in fact, a very, very solid explanation of what happened. He fired Comey because Comey would not, among other things, say that he wasn’t a target of the investigation. He’s entitled that. Hillary Clinton got that, and he couldn’t get that.”

I agree with Rudy. Comey is a pathetic liar, a disgrace to the entire FBI. McCabe too.

But Muller intends to make Comey the "Standard" for the "Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth."

Disagree with Comey and Trump is "guilty" of perjury.

And you guys have the nerve to call this "Justice." Shame on you!

This is how they got General Flynn, and he was not even under oath or represented by a lawyer. Where was the outcry when he was fired, disgraced, lost his pension, went bankrupt?

Trump and Co. are falling apart on their own. And Giuliani is playing the game he's accusing the others of playing. He's playing the obfuscation game. None of this is gonna shake out well for Trump.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And only your liberal friends like Barry, Bill and Hillary are innocent until proven guilty?

Ain't nobody charged Trump ... yet. Instead :

Trump thinks : The crooked Clinton's are the biggest criminals ever in history. Get me their lawyer.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree with Rudy. Comey is a pathetic liar, a disgrace to the entire FBI. McCabe too.

OK, but if you agree with Rudy then Trump is a bald faced liar, so is Sanders, and so is Cohen.

Rudy Giuliani’s claims about Stormy Daniels payment conflict with Trump’s past statements -- PBS

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

OK, but if you agree with Rudy then Trump is a bald faced liar, so is Sanders, and so is Cohen.

Rudy Giuliani’s claims about Stormy Daniels payment conflict with Trump’s past statements -- PBS

Remember Bill Clinton? Not all lies are created equal.

That's like accusing me of being a bald faced liar for telling my wife she "looks beautiful tonight."

One "liar" is merely protecting his family from salacious slander, and the other "liar" is attempting a coup d'etat against a democratically elected president.

Apparently this is just too difficult for you to understand.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

OK, but if you agree with Rudy then Trump is a bald faced liar,

Speaking of bald, his hair lies too.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Remember Bill Clinton? Not all lies are created equal.

That's like accusing me of being a bald faced liar for telling my wife she "looks beautiful tonight."

One "liar" is merely protecting his family from salacious slander, and the other "liar" is attempting a coup d'etat against a democratically elected president.

Apparently this is just too difficult for you to understand.

You're parroting Giuliani's argument, but you're too late Trump has already undermined Giuliani's presentation of "the facts". No one on Trump's staff can keep up with his LP/S (lies per second) rate.

[ZNPaaneah]

Fox News host Neil Cavuto had some harsh words for Donald Trump on Thursday: Mr. President, you stink.

The host listed some of Trump’s worst lies and misstatements, including claiming there was widespread voter fraud in the 2016 election and the recent revelation that he repaid his personal lawyer Michael Cohen for $130,000 in hush money given to porn star Stephanie Clifford, known as Stormy Daniels, after he’d repeatedly denied knowing about the situation.

“How can you drain the swamp if you’re the one that keeps muddying the water?” Cavuto asked. “You didn’t know about that $130,000 payment to a porn star until you did.”

Cavuto, one of the few hosts on Fox News who calls out the president, said Trump cannot criticize the press for reporting “fake news” when he repeatedly makes false statements without correction.

“Your base probably might not care,” Cavuto added. “But you should. I guess you’re too busy draining the swamp to ever stop and smell the stink you’re creating. That’s your doing. That’s your stink. Mr. President, that’s your swamp.”

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You're parroting Giuliani's argument, but you're too late Trump has already undermined Giuliani's presentation of "the facts". No one on Trump's staff can keep up with his LP/S (lies per second) rate.

Parroting Guiliani? Not so.

For years and years the liberal Press drummed these talking points into the American people.

Where were you?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Parroting Guiliani? Not so.

For years and years the liberal Press drummed these talking points into the American people.

Where were you?

What? How could they have drummed these talking points for years and years? I thought Trump only learned about the Stormy Daniels case a few days ago.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What? How could they have drummed these talking points for years and years? I thought Trump only learned about the Stormy Daniels case a few days ago.

Pay attention. The talking points go back to the Clinton era -- that "it is all about job performance, and should not involve the president's personal life."

Heard it a thousand times. Maybe you didn't hear it because you were in Taiwan.

But Bill was in the Oval Office being paid by the American people while he had some young pretty intern "relieve some of his pressure."

Trump however is not taking a salary, neither did this affair occur during his presidency, but 10 to 15 years ago, and she was not some starry eyed teen at the White House.

So you once again pass the camel but strain out the gnats. Way to go!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Pay attention.

The God-man speaks!

The talking points go back to the Clinton era -- that "it is all about job performance, and should not involve the president's personal life."

Heard it a thousand times. Maybe you didn't hear it because you were in Taiwan.

But Bill was in the Oval Office being paid by the American people while he had some young pretty intern "relieve some of his pressure."

Trump however is not taking a salary, neither did this affair occur during his presidency, but 10 to 15 years ago, and she was not some starry eyed teen at the White House.

So you once again pass the camel but strain out the gnats. Way to go!

That's why I come here. Trump's high powered former NYC mayor attorney Giuliani and his Press Secretary Huckabee Sanders can't get the facts straight. But, the God-man from Ohio has all of Trump's camels and gnats neatly lined up in row.

Of course, there is this little thing about the pay-off coming two weeks before the 2016 election not 10 or 15 years ago. And there is this tiny matter that investigators have Michael Cohen's records and he is going to testify. What do you hear about that on your pipeline with God?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

What do you hear about that on your pipeline with God?

Like Judge Ellis aptly said "C'mon Man!"

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Pay attention. The talking points go back to the Clinton era -- that "it is all about job performance, and should not involve the president's personal life."

Heard it a thousand times. Maybe you didn't hear it because you were in Taiwan.

But Bill was in the Oval Office being paid by the American people while he had some young pretty intern "relieve some of his pressure."

Trump however is not taking a salary, neither did this affair occur during his presidency, but 10 to 15 years ago, and she was not some starry eyed teen at the White House.

So you once again pass the camel but strain out the gnats. Way to go!

Did anyone listen to that? Didn't work for Nixon, didn't work for Clinton, didn't work for Reagan.

Are you saying that Trump is now one with the swamp?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The God-man speaks!




That's why I come here. Trump's high powered former NYC mayor attorney Giuliani and his Press Secretary Huckabee Sanders can't get the facts straight. But, the God-man from Ohio has all of Trump's camels and gnats neatly lined up in row.

Of course, there is this little thing about the pay-off coming two weeks before the 2016 election not 10 or 15 years ago. And there is this tiny matter that investigators have Michael Cohen's records and he is going to testify. What do you hear about that on your pipeline with God?

I thought Trump was going to fire Rudy? He just said "he was doing a great job", then threw him under the bus. Doesn't that mean he gets fired in the next few weeks?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did anyone listen to that? Didn't work for Nixon, didn't work for Clinton, didn't work for Reagan.

Are you saying that Trump is now one with the swamp?

Oh yes it worked for Clinton. His approval ratings continued to rise during the impeachment procedures.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What's a "pubbies" and why are you using my name in vain?

Good dodge, you pubbie. Pubbie is the snowflake version on the conservative side.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Good dodge, you pubbie. Pubbie is the snowflake version on the conservative side.

I gave up on dodges.

I switched to Hondas.

I looked up pubbies, and it ain't good, nothing about snowflakes.

Kentucky hillbilly slang? Perhaps from your horse races?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh yes it worked for Clinton. His approval ratings continued to rise during the impeachment procedures.

What!? Clinton paid his intern $130,000. I never knew! But it must have been a lousy NDA.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Good dodge, you pubbie. Pubbie is the snowflake version on the conservative side.

Urban dictionary: Pubbie: Members of a game community that aren't in your particular private group. Usually seen as less desirable to play with.

Now this definitely does not apply to Ohio, if it weren't for Ohio there would be nothing to this entire thread. He is the only one making this entertaining.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What!? Clinton paid his intern $130,000. I never knew! But it must have been a lousy NDA.

That's because the Press was mum on the Paula Jones settlement.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Now this definitely does not apply to Ohio, if it weren't for Ohio there would be nothing to this entire thread. He is the only one making this entertaining.

Entertaining for you, tragic for the rest of America...

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's because the Press was mum on the Paula Jones settlement.

Here's a 1998 video that proves your statement false. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmRm_JP_xgE

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Entertaining for you, tragic for the rest of America...

Tragic for all of us. But better to laugh than cry.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Here's a 1998 video that proves your statement false. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmRm_JP_xgE

This proves that when it comes to covering up sexual misdeeds and affairs Clinton was a novice compared to Trump. If Trump is to be believed then Cohen had the authority to pay off any and all women claiming affairs without checking with him as to the validity or concerning the payment.

On the other hand of Rudy is to be believed Trump in his twisted way of thinking felt paying off his mistresses is a way to help his marriage, never considering that not having the affairs in the first place would be a more genuine way of showing concern to his marriage.

This also proves that since the liberal media was very open about reporting on these misdeeds of Clinton then they should do the same with regards to Trump.

[awareness]

REVEALED: Trump team 'hired Israeli spy firm to collect dirt on Obama officials in an attempt to discredit Iran nuclear deal'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...officials.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

REVEALED: Trump team 'hired Israeli spy firm to collect dirt on Obama officials in an attempt to discredit Iran nuclear deal'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...officials.html

Not sure about this racy, liberal tabloid, but I hope this story is true.

Why is it Clinton and DNC gets to hire foreigners to pen tabloid dossiers, use it to obtain illegal surveillance from FISA courts, and then appoint special prosecutors to attack team Trump, but Trump cannot get dirt on the worst treaty in US history ???

Blinded by liberal hate. Liberalism is a mental disorder. Why is it that liberals always take the same stance as our enemies?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not sure about this racy, liberal tabloid, but I hope this story is true.

Why is it Clinton and DNC gets to hire foreigners to pen tabloid dossiers, use it to obtain illegal surveillance from FISA courts, and then appoint special prosecutors to attack team Trump, but Trump cannot get dirt on the worst treaty in US history ???

Blinded by liberal hate. Liberalism is a mental disorder. Why is it that liberals always take the same stance as our enemies?

Yeah! Just like Reagan said, trust but verify.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yeah! Just like Reagan said, trust but verify.

Obama gave Iran $1,800,000,000.00 in cash, and we can now verify that all that money has been used to fund terrorists, just as Obama trusted it would be used.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obama gave Iran $1,800,000,000.00 in cash, and we can now verify that all that money has been used to fund terrorists, just as Obama trusted it would be used.

No, I don't agree that paying a ransom to a state sponsor of terrorism is equivalent to "trust but verify". On the Reagan quotes that would be more akin to the Iran contras scandal managed by Bush (his VP).

But contracting out spy work to an ally to verify whether or not a country we are "trusting" is keeping to the treaty or not, that to me is "trust but verify".

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not sure about this racy, liberal tabloid, but I hope this story is true.

Why is it Clinton and DNC gets to hire foreigners to pen tabloid dossiers, use it to obtain illegal surveillance from FISA courts, and then appoint special prosecutors to attack team Trump, but Trump cannot get dirt on the worst treaty in US history ???

Blinded by liberal hate. Liberalism is a mental disorder. Why is it that liberals always take the same stance as our enemies?

Really bro Ohio? You can't really believe all this.

I first found this story on Drudge Report ... but I suppose that too is too liberal for you. That "mental disorder" has invaded and infected all but Fox News ... and even it has Neil Cavuto.

So what about these sources (are they all liberal too? and infected with a mental disorder?) :

Is The Times of Israel too liberal for you?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-...n-deal-report/

How about The Guardian?:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-nuclear-deal

Or Haaretz:
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pre...ials-1.6060707

[awareness]

Originally Posted by awareness

Really bro Ohio? You can't really believe all this.

I first found this story on Drudge Report ... but I suppose that too is too liberal for you. That "mental disorder" has invaded and infected all but Fox News ... and even it has Neil Cavuto.

So what about these sources (are they all liberal too? and infected with a mental disorder?) :

Is The Times of Israel too liberal for you?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-...n-deal-report/

How about The Guardian?:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-nuclear-deal

Or Haaretz:
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pre...ials-1.6060707

And there's lots of mental disorders out there ... both left and right ... religious and non-religious ... believers and non-believers.

[ZNPaaneah]

Tyrant

“He is pathologically narcissistic and supremely arrogant. He has a grotesque sense of entitlement, never doubting that he can do whatever he chooses. . . . He expects absolute loyalty, but he is incapable of gratitude. The feelings of others mean nothing to him. He has no natural grace, no sense of shared humanity, no decency.”

“a political campaign, complete with a fraudulent display of religious piety, the slandering of opponents, and a grossly exaggerated threat to national security.”

“The prospect of endless winning proves to be a grotesque delusion,”

“Shakespeare wrote about how societies that seem stable go under, in the hands of people who shouldn’t be in power,”

“It is we, the audience, watching it all happening, who are lured into a peculiar form of collaboration,” Greenblatt writes. “Looking out at us from the stage, Richard invites us not only to share his gleeful contempt but also to experience for ourselves what it is to succumb to what we know to be loathsome.”

Quotes from an interesting commentary on Shakespeare's King Richard III

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Tyrant

“He is pathologically narcissistic and supremely arrogant. He has a grotesque sense of entitlement, never doubting that he can do whatever he chooses. . . . He expects absolute loyalty, but he is incapable of gratitude. The feelings of others mean nothing to him. He has no natural grace, no sense of shared humanity, no decency.”

“a political campaign, complete with a fraudulent display of religious piety, the slandering of opponents, and a grossly exaggerated threat to national security.”

“The prospect of endless winning proves to be a grotesque delusion,”

“Shakespeare wrote about how societies that seem stable go under, in the hands of people who shouldn’t be in power,”

“It is we, the audience, watching it all happening, who are lured into a peculiar form of collaboration,” Greenblatt writes. “Looking out at us from the stage, Richard invites us not only to share his gleeful contempt but also to experience for ourselves what it is to succumb to what we know to be loathsome.”

Quotes from an interesting commentary on Shakespeare's King Richard III

Great description of the Obama / Clinton crime families.

[Ohio]

Time to Shut Mueller Down

When then independent counsel Ken Starr was investigating Bill Clinton’s various scandals from Whitewater to Filegate and Travelgate, Starr was routinely compared to Inspector Javert, the relentless villain in Les Misérables, who pursued Jean Valjean for stealing a loaf of bread. Mueller is no Javert, who pursued his man for an identified — though minor — crime. He is more comparable to Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin’s secret police chief, Lavrenty Beria. Beria is remembered for inventing charges against Stalin’s enemies. Beria once said, “Show me the man and I’ll find the crime.” Mueller has identified Trump as his target and is working like a Stakhanovite to find Trump’s crime.

Mueller’s threat to national security is accomplished, as Judge Ellis alluded to, by lying to the courts, misleading the public, and interfering with the execution of the president’s duties. He is doing far more to damage our national security than the Russians did in their unsuccessful effort to interfere in 2016.

A few examples suffice.

The president is preoccupied with what he characterizes as Mueller’s “witch hunt,” a topic that dominates Trump’s Tweets. He has to deal with juggling his defense team. Former U.S. attorney Joe diGenova was brought on and then departed almost immediately. Ty Cobb, the lawyer trusted with his defense against Mueller’s investigation, was apparently fired because he was cooperating with Mueller to no avail and replaced with Emmett Flood, who reportedly will take a much tougher approach. (Flood, a former Clinton impeachment defense counsel, is known in “Godfather” terms as a “wartime consigliere.”)

Now, Trump and the defense team are trying to deal with Mueller’s threat to subpoena Trump to testify before a grand jury if Trump doesn’t consent to a less formal — but no less dangerous — interrogation. The president is trying to come up with a policy to deal with Russian and Iranian aggression in Syria and with Turkey’s partnership with both to preserve the Assad regime. He apparently isn’t even thinking about the almost seventeen-year war we’re fighting in Afghanistan or the fact that — as our top general in Europe warned Congress in March — that Russia could outmatch and outgun U.S. and NATO forces if war broke out in Europe.

All of that is taking place at the same time Trump is working with South Korean President Moon Jae-in and their respective teams to arrange the coming summit with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un and the release of the American hostages held in North Korea.

Mueller’s investigation is also absorbing Trump’s time he could otherwise spend in renegotiating trade agreements such as NAFTA, dealing personally with allies who are trying to get him to cancel Obama’s nuclear weapons agreement with Iran (Israel’s Netanyahu) or to not cancel it (France’s Macron, Germany’s Merkel, and Britain’s May), and other not-so-minor matters such as talking to China’s Xi Jinping about avoiding a mutual trade war and China’s interference with U.S. flights in Africa near China’s first overseas military base there.

The Mueller problem began as a legal problem with Rosenstein’s too-broad grant of powers to the special counsel. By his Beria-like methods, Mueller has made it into a political problem that no one, especially Rosenstein, seems willing to solve. As Judge Ellis said on Friday, “We don’t want anyone with unfettered power.” But that’s just what we have in Robert Mueller.

Rosenstein needs to mandate that Mueller’s investigation be ended before the November election. If Rosenstein won’t do that, Trump should fire him and hire someone who will.

[Ohio]

After the three perverts Attorney General (and later Governor) Elliot Spitzer, NYC Mayoral hopeful Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY), and New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman have resigned in disgrace, our President from that NY cesspool don't look so bad after all!

Trump Tweet Predicted Schneiderman Demise 4.5 Years Ago

.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great description of the Obama / Clinton crime families.

I almost want to read Richard III again.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Time to Shut Mueller Down

When then independent counsel Ken Starr was investigating Bill Clinton’s various scandals from Whitewater to Filegate and Travelgate, Starr was routinely compared to Inspector Javert, the relentless villain in Les Misérables, who pursued Jean Valjean for stealing a loaf of bread. Mueller is no Javert, who pursued his man for an identified — though minor — crime. He is more comparable to Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin’s secret police chief, Lavrenty Beria. Beria is remembered for inventing charges against Stalin’s enemies. Beria once said, “Show me the man and I’ll find the crime.” Mueller has identified Trump as his target and is working like a Stakhanovite to find Trump’s crime.

Mueller’s threat to national security is accomplished, as Judge Ellis alluded to, by lying to the courts, misleading the public, and interfering with the execution of the president’s duties. He is doing far more to damage our national security than the Russians did in their unsuccessful effort to interfere in 2016.

A few examples suffice.

The president is preoccupied with what he characterizes as Mueller’s “witch hunt,” a topic that dominates Trump’s Tweets. He has to deal with juggling his defense team. Former U.S. attorney Joe diGenova was brought on and then departed almost immediately. Ty Cobb, the lawyer trusted with his defense against Mueller’s investigation, was apparently fired because he was cooperating with Mueller to no avail and replaced with Emmett Flood, who reportedly will take a much tougher approach. (Flood, a former Clinton impeachment defense counsel, is known in “Godfather” terms as a “wartime consigliere.”)

Now, Trump and the defense team are trying to deal with Mueller’s threat to subpoena Trump to testify before a grand jury if Trump doesn’t consent to a less formal — but no less dangerous — interrogation. The president is trying to come up with a policy to deal with Russian and Iranian aggression in Syria and with Turkey’s partnership with both to preserve the Assad regime. He apparently isn’t even thinking about the almost seventeen-year war we’re fighting in Afghanistan or the fact that — as our top general in Europe warned Congress in March — that Russia could outmatch and outgun U.S. and NATO forces if war broke out in Europe.

All of that is taking place at the same time Trump is working with South Korean President Moon Jae-in and their respective teams to arrange the coming summit with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un and the release of the American hostages held in North Korea.

Mueller’s investigation is also absorbing Trump’s time he could otherwise spend in renegotiating trade agreements such as NAFTA, dealing personally with allies who are trying to get him to cancel Obama’s nuclear weapons agreement with Iran (Israel’s Netanyahu) or to not cancel it (France’s Macron, Germany’s Merkel, and Britain’s May), and other not-so-minor matters such as talking to China’s Xi Jinping about avoiding a mutual trade war and China’s interference with U.S. flights in Africa near China’s first overseas military base there.

The Mueller problem began as a legal problem with Rosenstein’s too-broad grant of powers to the special counsel. By his Beria-like methods, Mueller has made it into a political problem that no one, especially Rosenstein, seems willing to solve. As Judge Ellis said on Friday, “We don’t want anyone with unfettered power.” But that’s just what we have in Robert Mueller.

Rosenstein needs to mandate that Mueller’s investigation be ended before the November election. If Rosenstein won’t do that, Trump should fire him and hire someone who will.

I agree. Trump needs to sit down with Mueller, answer his questions and lets finish this thing now before the November elections. And not like those lying crooks in the mafia who plead the fifth.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree. Trump needs to sit down with Mueller, answer his questions and lets finish this thing now before the November elections. And not like those lying crooks in the mafia who plead the fifth.

Like General Flynn did? He was indicted for talking to the FBI. No crime, no collusion, no obstruction, nothing! His only mistake was talking to these snakes.

To use Comey's own words, there is "not one reasonable lawyer" in the country who thinks "Trump needs to sit down with Mueller, answer his questions."

Have you forgotten that Muller supervised John Connelly and Whitey Bulger? You should see the sanitized TV version of the movie Black Mass based on the 2001 book Black Mass: The True Story of an Unholy Alliance Between the FBI and the Irish Mob by Dick Lehr and Gerard O'Neill. Then you'll get to know your beloved, holier than thou, Special Prosecutor Muller.

[Ohio]

Popular movie running in all the main stream theatres since Nov 8, 2016

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Like General Flynn did? He was indicted for talking to the FBI. No crime, no collusion, no obstruction, nothing! His only mistake was talking to these snakes.

To use Comey's own words, there is "not one reasonable lawyer" in the country who thinks "Trump needs to sit down with Mueller, answer his questions."

Have you forgotten that Muller supervised John Connelly and Whitey Bulger? You should see the sanitized TV version of the movie Black Mass based on the 2001 book Black Mass: The True Story of an Unholy Alliance Between the FBI and the Irish Mob by Dick Lehr and Gerard O'Neill. Then you'll get to know your beloved, holier than thou, Special Prosecutor Muller.

Well that explains a lot. Here I was wondering why Trump's lawyers portrayed themselves as interns still trying to get up to speed on the facts and unable to distinguish between fact and opinion. I guess it is because all the reasonable lawyers assume Trump is guilty and therefore would not allow him to talk to Mueller. For a guy that should be keeping his mouth shut Trump sure does talk a lot.

The problem I see with Trump not talking to Mueller is that Mueller would then be forced to use his public comments, which obviously creates a problem for Trump since they can be viewed as a confession of guilt on a number of issues (obstruction of justice, campaign finance violations, etc). Like Rudy said "they are still trying to get their facts straight". Once they get a story that doesn't convict Trump of a crime I'm sure we'll hear it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Well that explains a lot. Here I was wondering why Trump's lawyers portrayed themselves as interns still trying to get up to speed on the facts and unable to distinguish between fact and opinion. I guess it is because all the reasonable lawyers assume Trump is guilty and therefore would not allow him to talk to Mueller. For a guy that should be keeping his mouth shut Trump sure does talk a lot.

The problem I see with Trump not talking to Mueller is that Mueller would then be forced to use his public comments, which obviously creates a problem for Trump since they can be viewed as a confession of guilt on a number of issues (obstruction of justice, campaign finance violations, etc). Like Rudy said "they are still trying to get their facts straight". Once they get a story that doesn't convict Trump of a crime I'm sure we'll hear it.

Judge Ellis has shamed Muller and his House of Cards. Their time is near.

Trump should keep on tweeting to the American public!

Yo ZNP, you got any honest politicians in NY?

Lock 'em all up!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Judge Ellis has shamed Muller and his House of Cards. Their time is near.

Trump should keep on tweeting to the American public!

Yo ZNP, you got any honest politicians in NY?

Lock 'em all up!

Whoa! Has Trump soured you on everyone from NY?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Whoa! Has Trump soured you on everyone from NY?

Trump is one of the few NYers I like.

My brother and others I have known from there "soured" me.

Actually I started out with a great opinion of NYers, since I got saved thru a brother who hailed from Lindenhurst, next to Babylon.

For example, my brother told me that it is wise never to make eye contact with a NYer, because it is so threatening to them, and could turn out badly.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump is one of the few NYers I like.

My brother and others I have known from there "soured" me.

Actually I started out with a great opinion of NYers, since I got saved thru a brother who hailed from Lindenhurst, next to Babylon.

For example, my brother told me that it is wise never to make eye contact with a NYer, because it is so threatening to them, and could turn out badly.

Don't worry, that whole boast about being able to kill someone in broad daylight and still get elected president, that doesn't apply to the vast majority of NYers.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Don't worry, that whole boast about being able to kill someone in broad daylight and still get elected president, that doesn't apply to the vast majority of NYers.

Why would you make a boast like that? What a twisted interpretation of the O.T.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why would you make a boast like that? What a twisted interpretation of the O.T.

Great question. Let's ask Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Great question. Let's ask Trump.

After we ask him how he got those three prisoners free from NoKo Kim.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

After we ask him how he got those three prisoners free from NoKo Kim.

Yes, Kudos to him for all positive outcomes with N. Korea.

[ZNPaaneah]

I am very confused by this latest news on Cohen. Trump wanted to "lock her up" for Clinton's 'pay to play' foundation. So hopefully Ohio or someone else can explain why Trump would be willing to pardon Cohen for doing the same thing?

Trump was very upset with Clinton for her corruption and went to Washington to drain the swamp. This is a total betrayal of everything he claimed he stood for. So why does he characterize the investigation as a total witch hunt while at the same time calling on an investigation of Clinton? Isn't this the corruption he was seeking to expose and get rid of?

However, this does vindicate Rudy. The money Cohen got because of his "expertise" in financial and drug related matters does make the $130k given to Stormy look like chump change.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am very confused by this latest news on Cohen. Trump wanted to "lock her up" for Clinton's 'pay to play' foundation. So hopefully Ohio or someone else can explain why Trump would be willing to pardon Cohen for doing the same thing?

Trump was very upset with Clinton for her corruption and went to Washington to drain the swamp. This is a total betrayal of everything he claimed he stood for. So why does he characterize the investigation as a total witch hunt while at the same time calling on an investigation of Clinton? Isn't this the corruption he was seeking to expose and get rid of?

However, this does vindicate Rudy. The money Cohen got because of his "expertise" in financial and drug related matters does make the $130k given to Stormy look like chump change.

I heard there were two Cohen's in the news, and that created some confusion.

One thing identifies the true liberals -- they don't care if laws are broken by Team Muller as long as they get their dirt to leak on Trump.

And later on when the Press discover that yesterday's dirt was all fake news, they have no responsibility to correct the report.

How good is that!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, Kudos to him for all positive outcomes with N. Korea.

The Trojan Horse comes to mind. “Chairman Un" has 'em now. North Korea has joined the ever growing circle of nations that's got Nukes. Up next, if not already so, is Iran ... then Saudi Arabia, as they've promised.

Sooner or later, those Nukes are going to go off.

But bro ZNP reminded us that one way to solve the population problem is to Nuke 'em all.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

The Trojan Horse comes to mind. “Chairman Un" has 'em now. North Korea has joined the ever growing circle of nations that's got Nukes. Up next, if not already so, is Iran ... then Saudi Arabia, as they've promised.

Sooner or later, those Nukes are going to go off.

But bro ZNP reminded us that one way to solve the population problem is to Nuke 'em all.

So now you want to nuke all them Mooslims?

And I caught so much flak just for holding them up at the border.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

After we ask him how he got those three prisoners free from NoKo Kim.

That's a good thing. Yay Trump!

North Korean dictators have a history of capturing Americans they can use as bargaining chips. Remember the Pueblo?

Trump’s decision to torpedo the nuclear agreement with Iran has harmed the prospects of freedom for the five Americans detained by Iran, however. Boo Trump!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

That's a good thing. Yay Trump!

North Korean dictators have a history of capturing Americans they can use as bargaining chips. Remember the Pueblo?

Trump’s decision to torpedo the nuclear agreement with Iran has harmed the prospects of freedom for the five Americans detained by Iran, however. Boo Trump!

Boo 'Bama instead!

He gave them $150 Billion with $2 Billion in cash.

That would have been more than $30 Billion per hostage! But we got Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Zip.

Then he gave away 5 Taliban Generals for one deserter Bo Birddog.

Buy Hey, Obama was your boy, and he could do no wrong.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So now you want to nuke all them Mooslims?

Why do you think Trump is developing precision small target Nukes? Mooslims, as your prejudice likes to call then, are scattered everywhere. Little Boy and Fat Boy won't do the trick.

Those hit by the nukes are the lucky ones. They die instantly. We're the unlucky ones. We'll die a slow torturous death, from radiation sickness.

Originally Posted by Ohio

And I caught so much flak just for holding them up at the border.

Love your neighbor -- unless they're Muslims, or Mexicans, or El Salvadorians, or anyone of color.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

The Trojan Horse comes to mind. “Chairman Un" has 'em now. North Korea has joined the ever growing circle of nations that's got Nukes. Up next, if not already so, is Iran ... then Saudi Arabia, as they've promised.

Sooner or later, those Nukes are going to go off.

But bro ZNP reminded us that one way to solve the population problem is to Nuke 'em all.

Nukes does not solve the problem because although you reduce the population you also reduce the habitable land. Keep trying.

[zeek]

The chief executives of AT&T and Novartis are both in damage control mode for their dealings with Michael Cohen, apologizing to employees for poor judgment in paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to President Donald Trump's personal attorney for insights into the president's thinking. Also, earlier in the week it was reported that a shell company that Cohen used to pay hush money to a pornographic film actress received payments totaling more than $1 million from an American company linked to a Russian oligarch. Of course, none of this has anything to do with Donald Trump, it's just kind of funny the way he attracts corruption like a dung magnet.

[Ohio]

Bitter liberal John McCain taking shots at everyone around him, and then get's all irate when some low-level WH aide says, "he's dying anyways."

It's just amazing how much great Press one can get for Trump hate. McCain tastelessly disses Trump, Gina Haspel, and Sarah Palin, etc., yet he's now become some "untouchable" war hero, some "lifelong public servant." My garbage man is a better public servant than John McCain -- read his biography sometime.

McCain who might take down Haspel's nomination is living proof that torture works. Former Fox News military analyst Thomas McInerney on Thursday condemned Sen McCain's rebuke of President Trump CIA director nominee Gina Haspel, saying that torture "worked on" McCain, whom he referred to as "Songbird John."

Whenever things go bad for John, he becomes fake war hero "Tokyo Rose" again. They should bury him next to John "Swift Boat" Kerry.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Nukes does not solve the problem because although you reduce the population you also reduce the habitable land. Keep trying.

Neutron bomb

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

The chief executives of AT&T and Novartis are both in damage control mode for their dealings with Michael Cohen, apologizing to employees for poor judgment in paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to President Donald Trump's personal attorney for insights into the president's thinking. Also, earlier in the week it was reported that a shell company that Cohen used to pay hush money to a pornographic film actress received payments totaling more than $1 million from an American company linked to a Russian oligarch. Of course, none of this has anything to do with Donald Trump, it's just kind of funny the way he attracts corruption like a dung magnet.

You got that wrong. Dung clings to all money, including your own.

Heat on Stormy Daniels' lawyer over past business dealings, bank record disclosure

[awareness]

“Things are about to get Biblical,” Rabbi Winston told Breaking Israel news.

“Some people thought the Bible was dead. They thought they could sit back and relax.

“That is clearly not the case in Syria and soon, that will be clear to everyone.”

He said confrontation between Israel and Iran is not a “normal political crisis” but rather “this is a Biblically based, prophetic crisis”.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wor...ble-apocalypse

[awareness]

More coverage on the real reason Rocket Man folded ... and it's not because of Trump :

North Korea's last nuclear test had the energy of 10 Nagasaki bombs and was so powerful it moved a MOUNTAIN
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-MOUNTAIN.html

[Ohio]

Trash day at the White House.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

More coverage on the real reason Rocket Man folded ... and it's not because of Trump :

North Korea's last nuclear test had the energy of 10 Nagasaki bombs and was so powerful it moved a MOUNTAIN
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-MOUNTAIN.html

Indirectly it is because of Trump, as I stated before he pushed them into it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Indirectly it is because of Trump, as I stated before he pushed them into it.

I suspect it is from idiotic egomaniacs ignoring the warnings of the scientists.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Indirectly it is because of Trump, as I stated before he pushed them into it.

So Trump made him blow up the mountain, and spew radiation into China? Yer deplorable bro EvanG.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Trump made him blow up the mountain, and spew radiation into China? Yer deplorable bro EvanG.

Take that back!

Only those who support Trump can be in Hillary's basket of "deplorables."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Take that back!

Only those who support Trump can be in Hillary's basket of "deplorables."

EvanG's post seemed to indicate that he was in that basket. But perhaps not. Sorry EvanG, if I got it wrong.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Trump made him blow up the mountain, and spew radiation into China? Yer deplorable bro EvanG.

Indirectly yes. Without Trumps aggression NK would not have moved so quickly and recklessly. It was in direct response to Trump rhetoric.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Indirectly yes. Without Trumps aggression NK would not have moved so quickly and recklessly. It was in direct response to Trump rhetoric.

You don't know that. But if you do please provided a link.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Indirectly yes. Without Trumps aggression NK would not have moved so quickly and recklessly. It was in direct response to Trump rhetoric.

That is wild conjecture. NK was moving aggressively to build a nuclear capacity long before Trump's rhetoric. The only thing we can infer from the information we have is that they moved recklessly.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is wild conjecture. NK was moving aggressively to build a nuclear capacity long before Trump's rhetoric. The only thing we can infer from the information we have is that they moved recklessly.

What American governments do not understand that they were and always have been the aggressor and NK is the victim. NK builds weapons in direct proportion and response to American aggression, both as a deterrent and as a possible counter attack in the event of an American invasion. The US pushed NK down this path. It started in 1871 when America started to colonize Korea and killed 650 people.

You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ition_to_Korea

Who invaded who first?

Who is the aggressor and who is the defender?

The facts of history provide the clear answers and they cannot be rationalized as "defending America" from terrorism , communism or otherwise.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

What American governments do not understand that they were and always have been the aggressor and NK is the victim. NK builds weapons in direct proportion and response to American aggression, both as a deterrent and as a possible counter attack in the event of an American invasion. The US pushed NK down this path. It started in 1871 when America started to colonize Korea and killed 650 people.

You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ition_to_Korea

Who invaded who first?

Who is the aggressor and who is the defender?

The facts of history provide the clear answers and they cannot be rationalized as "defending America" from terrorism , communism or otherwise.

Always? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

What American governments do not understand that they were and always have been the aggressor and NK is the victim. NK builds weapons in direct proportion and response to American aggression, both as a deterrent and as a possible counter attack in the event of an American invasion. The US pushed NK down this path. It started in 1871 when America started to colonize Korea and killed 650 people.

You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ition_to_Korea

Who invaded who first?

Who is the aggressor and who is the defender?

The facts of history provide the clear answers and they cannot be rationalized as "defending America" from terrorism , communism or otherwise.

Just another imaginary reason for a liberal Aussie to hate America.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is wild conjecture. NK was moving aggressively to build a nuclear capacity long before Trump's rhetoric. The only thing we can infer from the information we have is that they moved recklessly.

Blaming America for three generations of Kim ruthless dictatorships is like blaming Jesus for the sins of the whole world.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Blaming America for three generations of Kim ruthless dictatorships is like blaming Jesus for the sins of the whole world.

I am not saying the US diplomatic effort was reckless, I am saying that NK's nuclear program, setting off a huge H bomb under the mountain, was reckless.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just another imaginary reason for a liberal Aussie to hate America.

Revisionism. The war in Korea was started when the North Korean communists invaded the South Korean non communist. We were allies of South Korea. If North Korea doesn't like losing the war, then don't start it.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just another imaginary reason for a liberal Aussie to hate America.

If you can't say something mean, then don't say anything at all.

[awareness]

"Donald Trump recognized history. He, like King Cyrus before him, fulfilled the biblical prophecy of the gods worshipped by Jews, Christians and, yes, Muslims, that Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish state and that the Jewish people deserve a righteous, free and sovereign Israel."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...s-capital.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

If you can't say something mean, then don't say anything at all.

That explains all of the posts here about our Prez.

My father nearly lost his life in the "forgotten" Korean War. Perhaps this is personal.

I like Aussie's. My dog is an Aussie. But somebody needs to stand up to stupidity.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

Always? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

Yes, always...or often.

Please point to a time when Koreans, north or south, were ever a direct military threat to the continent of America itself. The aggressor is always the one with the army where it doesn't belong. 1871, America invaded Korea, try to take it by force. Can't take no for an answer. That's the fact. Korea would be one country today if 1871 did not happen.

WW1 or Nazi Germany's army never belonged in Poland or France.
American's army never belonged in Korea.
They never belonged in Vietnam either.

It's very easy to tell who is the aggressor when we consider where someones army doesn't belong. The concept is very easy to understand, I don't know why some people struggle with it. If someone takes 10 armed men and makes a camp at your front door, and then demands certain things, who is the aggressor?
But the damage is done, but the way to solve it is to make reparation. 1871...seems a long time ago, seems small and irrelevant, but these Asian people remember as if it was yesterday, they never forget who did what to whom. That's why Trump has to say sorry first. It's the right thing to do I think.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That explains all of the posts here about our Prez.

My father nearly lost his life in the "forgotten" Korean War. Perhaps this is personal.

I like Aussie's. My dog is an Aussie. But somebody needs to stand up to stupidity.

I say this as a pacifist, not as one who takes sides. See what your country did to your father, almost got him killed. For what? What did America gain in the Korean war? At least the middle east has oil, invading that makes some sense. And then, when it's all over, do those people respect the contribution made? Of course not. America doesn't. Korea doesn't. South Koreans want to jump the fence and meet their long lost relatives in North Korea more than they want America to help them. Learn from President Trump, evade military service where possible, but press the big red button if you have to.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I say this as a pacifist, not as one who takes sides. See what your country did to your father, almost got him killed. For what? What did America gain in the Korean war? At least the middle east has oil, invading that makes some sense. And then, when it's all over, do those people respect the contribution made? Of course not. America doesn't. Korea doesn't. South Koreans want to jump the fence and meet their long lost relatives in North Korea more than they want America to help them. Learn from President Trump, evade military service where possible, but press the big red button if you have to.

The USA stopped Communist expansion in Korea, Viet Nam, Taiwan and all of Southeast Asia, Germany, Eastern Europe, and all over the Globe. The UN has been rendered useless. Today the USA is the only resistance the world has to Russian, Chinese, and Iranian expansion efforts.

You too should be thankful for the USA, otherwise you would be under communist oppression also, either the Russian or Chinese brand, or overrun by Indonesian Islamic aggression.

I thought you had a few more smarts than that, I guess I was wrong.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Yes, always...or often.

Please point to a time when Koreans, north or south, were ever a direct military threat to the continent of America itself.

The aggressor is always the one with the army where it doesn't belong.

Right! And you can prove that during both WWI and WWII, when the USA fought for the liberty of others on foreign soil.

Apparently Aussies never studied world history in school.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The USA stopped Communist expansion in Korea, Viet Nam, Taiwan and all of Southeast Asia, Germany, Eastern Europe, and all over the Globe. The UN has been rendered useless. Today the USA is the only resistance the world has to Russian, Chinese, and Iranian expansion efforts.

You too should be thankful for the USA, otherwise you would be under communist oppression also, either the Russian or Chinese brand, or overrun by Indonesian Islamic aggression.

I thought you had a few more smarts than that, I guess I was wrong.

Well at least brother EvanG's leader doesn't have a communist sleeping in his capital building.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Right! And you can prove that during both WWI and WWII, when the USA fought for the liberty of others on foreign soil.

Apparently Aussies never studied world history in school.

I agree that in WWI and WWII we were not the aggressor.

However, in the Vietnam war and Korean war you cannot deny we had hawks in our govt urging that we become the aggressor. As for the Middle East you can blame 1st Gulf war on Saddam, however many believe the US suckered him into attacking Kuwait. Likewise, the second Gulf war is even weirder. Even if you believe the official line concerning 911 you have to have realized by now that this did not justify an attack on Iraq.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Well at least brother EvanG's leader doesn't have a communist sleeping in his capital building.

How do you know?

And you are referring to Valerie Jarrett, our former co-President, an Iranian communist.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How do you know?

And you are referring to Valerie Jarrett, our former co-President, an Iranian communist.

Melania Trump from Slovenia.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree that in WWI and WWII we were not the aggressor.

However, in the Vietnam war and Korean war you cannot deny we had hawks in our govt urging that we become the aggressor. As for the Middle East you can blame 1st Gulf war on Saddam, however many believe the US suckered him into attacking Kuwait. Likewise, the second Gulf war is even weirder. Even if you believe the official line concerning 911 you have to have realized by now that this did not justify an attack on Iraq.

I don't disagree, but let's not forget that hawks have pushed both sides into conflict, and I have never promoted the USA as "perfect."

Neither are the police perfect, but without them things would be much worse.

It's hard to deny the correlation between both military strength and Christian influence around the world. In the 19th century in was Britain, and later it was the USA. It's hard for me to understand how even Christians can't see the hand of God in this respect.

If we believe that Jerusalem should be the recognized capital of Israel, then we must also accept how God has used Trump. Did you know that both Clinton, Dubya, and Obama have all publicly promised to take this action but did nothing?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Melania Trump from Slovenia.

Thou shalt not bear false witness!

[Ohio]

Liberal blinders to keep the faithful from getting distracted.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thou shalt not bear false witness!

She grew up in the home of a card carrying communist father, in a communist country. That's not false witness. Sooooo .... a communist is in the WH.

No wonder Trump is a China first president, ordering the bailout of the large Chinese company ZTE, who was shut down for violations of the Iran sanctions. Trump says, “Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done” (lifting the legal sanctions against XTE). All because China just committed to a billion dollar loan for a Trump resort in Indonesia.

WASHINGTON – A mere 72 hours after the Chinese government agreed to put a half-billion dollars into an Indonesian project that will personally enrich Donald Trump, the president ordered a bailout for a Chinese-government-owned cellphone maker.

“President Xi of China, and I, are working together to give massive Chinese phone company, ZTE, a way to get back into business, fast,” Trump announced on Twitter Sunday morning. “Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done!”

See, a communist is in the WH.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Liberal blinders to keep the faithful from getting distracted.

I think we can all agree that many, many people today are wearing blinders. Especially in the media.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

She grew up in the home of a card carrying communist father, in a communist country. That's not false witness. Sooooo .... a communist is in the WH.

No wonder Trump is a China first president, ordering the bailout of the large Chinese company ZTE, who was shut down for violations of the Iran sanctions. Trump says, “Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done” (lifting the legal sanctions against XTE). All because China just committed to a billion dollar loan for a Trump resort in Indonesia.

WASHINGTON – A mere 72 hours after the Chinese government agreed to put a half-billion dollars into an Indonesian project that will personally enrich Donald Trump, the president ordered a bailout for a Chinese-government-owned cellphone maker.

“President Xi of China, and I, are working together to give massive Chinese phone company, ZTE, a way to get back into business, fast,” Trump announced on Twitter Sunday morning. “Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done!”

See, a communist is in the WH.

"Just about everything is odd about Trump’s support of Chinese firm ZTE" ~Washington Post online

It's odd that Trump, who campaigned on saving millions of U.S. jobs, suddenly says he cares about a few thousand Chinese jobs.

It's odd that Trump, who championed “America First,” is worried about a single Chinese firm.

It's odd that Trump, who has spent months berating the Chinese for stealing U.S. intellectual property, is coming to the rescue of a Chinese telecom company that's trying to compete with American companies like Apple.

It is odd that Trump, who has put extensive sanctions on North Korea and Iran, seems to be willing to forgive ZTE, a company that admitted it illegally shipped telecom equipment to Iran and North Korea. Trump's own Commerce Department punished ZTE in April for “egregious behavior,” including repeatedly lying to the U.S. government.



Maybe he's one of those democratic communists, like Putin.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

"Just about everything is odd about Trump’s support of Chinese firm ZTE" ~Washington Post online

It's odd that Trump, who campaigned on saving millions of U.S. jobs, suddenly says he cares about a few thousand Chinese jobs.

It's odd that Trump, who championed “America First,” is worried about a single Chinese firm.

It's odd that Trump, who has spent months berating the Chinese for stealing U.S. intellectual property, is coming to the rescue of a Chinese telecom company that's trying to compete with American companies like Apple.

It is odd that Trump, who has put extensive sanctions on North Korea and Iran, seems to be willing to forgive ZTE, a company that admitted it illegally shipped telecom equipment to Iran and North Korea. Trump's own Commerce Department punished ZTE in April for “egregious behavior,” including repeatedly lying to the U.S. government.



Maybe he's one of those democratic communists, like Putin.

If you have a problem with every single word he says and are paranoid about every single twitch of his then you will have no credibility. Why don't you just wait until there is solid evidence of wrongdoing? There are plenty of people trying to dig the dirt.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think we can all agree that many, many people today are wearing blinders. Especially in the media.

That is more than evident when we see the distorted media coverage of the opening of The US Embassy in Jerusalem.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That is more than evident when we see the distorted media coverage of the opening of The US Embassy in Jerusalem.

The strategy employed by Israel the last 70 years has been the same that Lincoln wanted to take. We don't attack first, but if you attack we will defend ourselves (eye for an eye) all the while the PLO gets weaker and Israel gets stronger.

However, after Fort Sumnter Lincoln called for volunteers to go fight, this put the 7 slaves states that hadn't left the Union in a predicament -- do we send our men to go fight the other Southern States? That call precipitated the Civil War.

In the same way will the US and others recognizing Jerusalem be a "Fort Sumnter" event for the Arab nations allied to the US?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

"Just about everything is odd about Trump’s support of Chinese firm ZTE" ~Washington Post online

It's odd that Trump, who campaigned on saving millions of U.S. jobs, suddenly says he cares about a few thousand Chinese jobs.

It's odd that Trump, who championed “America First,” is worried about a single Chinese firm.

It's odd that Trump, who has spent months berating the Chinese for stealing U.S. intellectual property, is coming to the rescue of a Chinese telecom company that's trying to compete with American companies like Apple.

It is odd that Trump, who has put extensive sanctions on North Korea and Iran, seems to be willing to forgive ZTE, a company that admitted it illegally shipped telecom equipment to Iran and North Korea. Trump's own Commerce Department punished ZTE in April for “egregious behavior,” including repeatedly lying to the U.S. government.



Maybe he's one of those democratic communists, like Putin.

And isn't it odd that the Trump Org is getting big loans from China for a Trump resort in Indonesia?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

And isn't it odd that the Trump Org is getting big loans from China for a Trump resort in Indonesia?

I thought the US was trying to prevent the spread of communism but I guess these days communism pays too well.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you have a problem with every single word he says and are paranoid about every single twitch of his then you will have no credibility. Why don't you just wait until there is solid evidence of wrongdoing? There are plenty of people trying to dig the dirt.

It's a clear violation of the emoluments clause.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It's a clear violation of the emoluments clause.

Well then He will be impeached. If the Republicans ignore "a clear violation" of the emoluments clause they will be destroyed in the midterms and Trump will be impeached. That is how it works. This is why Mueller is telling him he doesn't have the authority to indict him. Mueller can provide the evidence of violations of high crimes and misdemeanors and then the elected officials can impeach him.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Well then He will be impeached. If the Republicans ignore "a clear violation" of the emoluments clause they will be destroyed in the midterms and Trump will be impeached. That is how it works. This is why Mueller is telling him he doesn't have the authority to indict him. Mueller can provide the evidence of violations of high crimes and misdemeanors and then the elected officials can impeach him.

Should we post that "Peach Foty Fie" video again?

Trump has to be guilty!

You heard it first on CNN.

Or was it that British tabloid?

But what happened to all the other atrocious scandals and "violations of high crimes and misdemeanors" which we have heard about in the last 2 years? Russian collusion? Putin's puppet? Melania's stiletto's?

Poor, poor, Hillary! She has now informed us of some 41 reasons why she lost the election. Reason #41: She is a capitalist! Egads!

Stay tuned for the next segment ...

[awareness]

During a roundtable with California leaders on Wednesday Trump said :

“We’re taking people out of the country. You wouldn’t believe how bad these people are,” he said. “These aren’t people. These are animals.”

Given that over 80% of Evangelicals supported Trump, I have one question :

How could those that are suppose to be the salt of the earth get mixed up with those that put salt in the wounds?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

During a roundtable with California leaders on Wednesday Trump said :

“We’re taking people out of the country. You wouldn’t believe how bad these people are,” he said. “These aren’t people. These are animals.”

Given that over 80% of Evangelicals supported Trump, I have one question :

How could those that are suppose to be the salt of the earth get mixed up with those that put salt in the wounds?

Awareness, why do you support MS-13 gangs who torture people and put salt in their wounds?

Read this: ‘You feel that the devil is helping you’: MS-13’s satanic history

And this: Obama’s DACA program tied to growth of deadly MS-13 gang which has spread to 22 states: End it NOW

Trump rightly calls MS-13 animals, just like Peter did ...

"But these ones as beasts without reason, made to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming in things they are ignorant of, shall also perish in their own corruption." -- 2 Peter 2.12

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Awareness, why do you support MS-13 gangs who torture people and put salt in their wounds?

Read this: ‘You feel that the devil is helping you’: MS-13’s satanic history

And this: Obama’s DACA program tied to growth of deadly MS-13 gang which has spread to 22 states: End it NOW

Trump rightly calls MS-13 animals, just like Peter did ...

"But these ones as beasts without reason, made to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming in things they are ignorant of, shall also perish in their own corruption." -- 2 Peter 2.12

Well, that explains that.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Awareness, why do you support MS-13 gangs who torture people and put salt in their wounds?

Read this: ‘You feel that the devil is helping you’: MS-13’s satanic history

And this: Obama’s DACA program tied to growth of deadly MS-13 gang which has spread to 22 states: End it NOW

Trump rightly calls MS-13 animals, just like Peter did ...

"But these ones as beasts without reason, made to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming in things they are ignorant of, shall also perish in their own corruption." -- 2 Peter 2.12

But you should be happy. It all points to Armageddon right around the corner.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But you should be happy. It all points to Armageddon right around the corner.

No, I'm not happy with the way you distort and defame Christians.

You are far worse than W. Lee ever was.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No, I'm not happy with the way you distort and defame Christians.

Christians distort and defame themselves plenty without me. You just hate when I point it out.

Apparently, over 80% of Evangelicals give the rest of them a bad name ... or give Jesus a bad name.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Christians distort and defame themselves plenty without me. You just hate when I point it out.

Apparently, over 80% of Evangelicals give the rest of them a bad name ... or give Jesus a bad name.

How can you defend MS-13 gang members, some of which stabbed a guy 100 times and ripped his heart out? Others have beaten young girls unrecognizable.

You condemn a Christian for how he votes, and then condemn the president for calling murderers "animals."

Your comments and attitude give Jesus a bad name.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How can you defend MS-13 gang members, some of which stabbed a guy 100 times and ripped his heart out? Others have beaten young girls unrecognizable.

You condemn a Christian for how he votes, and then condemn the president for calling murderers "animals."

Your comments and attitude give Jesus a bad name.

I felt that Trump's comments were so obviously pointing to these individuals and yet vague enough to bait the faux outrage.

As a scientist calling a human an animal doesn't offend my sensibilities. What bothered me was he said that only some of them were animals! What are the other ones?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I felt that Trump's comments were so obviously pointing to these individuals and yet vague enough to bait the faux outrage.

It was only vague when taken out of context by editing out the actual question Trump was answering. No reporter who was there at the time could have made such a mistake without the deliberate intention to smear Trump.

You act as if it was Trump who "baited the faux outrage."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It was only vague when taken out of context by editing out the actual question Trump was answering. No reporter who was there at the time could have made such a mistake without the deliberate intention to smear Trump.

You act as if it was Trump who "baited the faux outrage."

Now c'mon bro Ohio. You're a Christian, or suppose to be. And you've got to know Trump is a consummate liar. How can a Christian support that?

Trump did not say specifically that MS-13 were animals. His cover for calling those coming across the border animals was that he was speaking about MS-13. It was a lie.

And it is you, a supposed Christian, that supports his lie.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Now c'mon bro Ohio. You're a Christian, or suppose to be. And you've got to know Trump is a consummate liar. How can a Christian support that?

Trump did not say specifically that MS-13 were animals. His cover for calling those coming across the border animals was that he was speaking about MS-13. It was a lie.

And it is you, a supposed Christian, that supports his lie.

In this case, only the liberals are being dishonest, esp the liberal press which you drink like Kool-Aid.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Now c'mon bro Ohio. You're a Christian, or suppose to be. And you've got to know Trump is a consummate liar. How can a Christian support that?

Trump did not say specifically that MS-13 were animals. His cover for calling those coming across the border animals was that he was speaking about MS-13. It was a lie.

And it is you, a supposed Christian, that supports his lie.

He is an animal so I suspect he knows another animal when he sees one.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Now c'mon bro Ohio. You're a Christian, or suppose to be. And you've got to know Trump is a consummate liar. How can a Christian support that?

Trump did not say specifically that MS-13 were animals. His cover for calling those coming across the border animals was that he was speaking about MS-13. It was a lie.

And it is you, a supposed Christian, that supports his lie.

You make some very good points, who exactly are the "Christians" supposed to support?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

esp the liberal press which you drink like Kool-Aid.

It dawned on me while at a Yahoo News Site (I hate Yahoo. My browser has been hijack with Ransomware many times).

Bro Ohio you are right. I drink the Kool-Aid every day. But I don't just drink liberal Kool-Aid. Unlike bro Ohio I drink Kool-Aid of many different flavors. Sure that includes liberal Kool-Aid. But also conservative Kool-Aid. And inbetween.

Unlike you bro Ohio, who is clearly projecting your tendency to drink only one type of Kool-Aid unto me, I drink Kool-Aid of every type.

In short. You get me wrong ; cuz you think I'm like you, only drinking from one fountain of Kool-Aid, that differs only cuz it's the blue flavor.

You get me wrong bro Ohio cuz, I'm actually an equal opportunity Kool-Aid drinker. It is you that is not. At least that is what you project out here.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bro Ohio you are right. I drink the Kool-Aid every day.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Bahahahahaha ... good one Ohio.

[Ohio]

H.A.L.P.E.R. Spells Game Up for Obama's Spies

Muller's stellar Russian indictments gone horribly awry ...

He notes how the latest effort of the Mueller team – the indictment of 13 Russians and three front companies – has devolved into clownishness. Mueller clearly thought these flawed indictments would never go to trial and the public relations affect was all that he wanted. Ka-Boom – wrong.

One of the companies named hired very capable counsel who has, among other things, noted that one of the three entities named wasn't in existence at the time of the purported offense, some of the people named do not exist, and the offense charged is not illegal in any event.

The company has made discovery demands, the court has denied the Mueller request for delay. The Russians will now get to enjoy all the benefits of our legal system without the actual "employees" involved ever likely appearing in court. So what was once a no-downside case for the Mueller special counsel has now become one with little upside.

At best, the Mueller special counsel may be highly embarrassed in being forced to essentially fold by dismissing the indictment, or at least the charges against Concord Management. Of course, this would delegitimize the special counsel by showing that one of its few non-process-crime cases pertaining to its Russia-centric mandate fell apart.

Adding insult to injury, a New York Sun posits the special counsel could find itself facing litigation from Concord Management under the "Hyde Amendment" concerning frivolous criminal prosecutions. Russia will certainly be laughing.

[Ohio]

Here's a great summary of the "Russian Collusion" which you will never hear from the media ...

How the FBI and CIA Restarted the Cold War to Protect Themselves

On December 29, 2016, the Obama Administration – with three weeks remaining in its term – issued harsh sanctions against Russia over supposed election interference. Two compounds in the United States were closed and 35 Russian diplomats were ordered to leave the country. Russia responded by calling the actions “Cold War déjà vu.”

In the two years that have elapsed since, it has been learned that the “intelligence” that formed the basis for the sanctions was beyond dubious. A single unverified “dossier” compiled by an ex-British spy with no discernable connections to Russia was shopped to FISA judges and the media as something real.

The dossier was opposition research by the Hillary Clinton campaign, a fact that was not disclosed and actively hidden by off-the-book transactions through the law firm Perkins Coie. As a dog that chases its tail, the fake dossier was being used to cause the investigation which itself lent credibility to the notion of Russian interference.

The FBI and CIA thumbed the eye of an armed nuclear state based on false intelligence. Why? The answer is now obvious: to cover up their own election year shenanigans they thought would remain forever hidden in the inevitable Hillary Clinton victory.

Russian collusion had first come to the electorate’s attention in July. The DNC had lost a cache of its emails either to a phishing scheme or to a hacker. The emails showed the Clinton campaign and the DNC conspiring to fix primaries against Bernie Sanders.

The outcry among Sanders supporters was sufficiently loud that DNC chairperson Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned on the eve of the democratic convention. It was a huge scandal. To squelch it for their expected future boss Hillary Clinton, the FBI and CIA constructed a Rube Goldberg machine of “Russian collusion” to blame Trump.

The FBI never bothered to test the computers for a hack. That task was left to CrowdStrike, a private contractor whose CTO and co-founder, Dmitri Alperovitch, is a Russian ex-patriot and a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, a think tank with an anti-Russian agenda. The Atlantic Council is funded by Ukrainian billionaire Victor Pinchuk, a $10 million donor to the Clinton Foundation. The fix was in. CrowdStrike dutifully reported that the Russians were behind the hack.

Lat year The Nation, a progressive publication, got a group of unaffiliated computer experts to test CrowdStrike’s hypothesis and they concluded that the email files were removed from the computer at a speed that makes an off-site download from Russia impossible.

Incredibly, Trump was placed on the defensive for email leaks that showed his opponent fixing the primaries. His campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, resigned because of past dealings with Russia. Trump protested by stating the obvious: the federal government has “no idea” who was behind the hacks.

The FBI and CIA called him a liar, issuing a “Joint Statement” that suggested 17 intelligence agencies agree that it was the Russians. Hillary Clinton took advantage of this “intelligence assessment” in the October debate to portray Trump as Putin’s stooge.

She said, “We have 17, 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyber-attacks, come from the highest levels of the Kremlin. And they are designed to influence our election. I find that deeply disturbing.”

The media’s fact checkers excoriated Trump for lying. It was the ultimate campaign dirty trick: a joint operation by the intelligence agencies and the media against a political candidate. Trump won anyway against this level of cheating. It has since been learned that the “17 intelligence agencies” claptrap was always false. Powerful insiders at the FBI and CIA authored the intelligence assessment and deceptively packaged it as a consensus.

By December 2016, the FBI and CIA needed something to justify their illegal wiretaps and spying. If not the quid, they at least needed the pro quo: an event that could be portrayed through a hard squint as collusion. They were not without means. They had members of Trump’s transition improperly wiretapped. If they could catch one making a concession to the Russians, they could say “gotcha” – this proves you were always in bed with them.

That is when the CIA and FBI shopped their phony intelligence assessments to President Obama and he sanctioned Russia. Then they listened in on the Trump transition’s conversation with the Russian ambassador the next day. Surely General Flynn, Trump’s incoming national security advisor, would scoff at the sanctions and promise to lift them. That would be the pro quo that proved the quid. They would finally have anecdotal evidence that showed Trump delivering for Putin. General Flynn, though, was uncharacteristically noncommittal. It didn’t work.

The machinations that followed, the secret memos and special counsel, the prosecution of Flynn anyway for what happened in his conversation, the whole sordid mess, is a cover-up. In the inverse logic of Russian collusion, the investigation itself supplies credibility to the collusion narrative. Any attempt to end the investigation is obstruction of justice.

One person has the constitutional responsibility end this nonsense. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who himself was duped into recusing himself by since discredited intelligence, should bow to recent disclosures of impropriety and say enough is enough. His Inspector General will be issuing a report to him sometime soon. Maybe then he will lift his recusal and start the prosecutions. People should go to jail for this.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's a great summary of the "Russian Collusion" which you will never hear from the media ...

Are you saying this is Whitewater all over again?

I must say I am flabergasted, the idea that Trump might be innocent never crossed my mind.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Are you saying this is Whitewater all over again?

I must say I am flabbergasted, the idea that Trump might be innocent never crossed my mind.

Ahh ... the thought of revenge justifies it all!

[Ohio]

I found this article horribly interesting and ironic ...

Trump Is Going Full Alinsky – and His Opponents Are Flummoxed

Let's look at a few of the rules Trump has used to turn the new world order upside-down.

1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."
Remember how Trump told Kim his nuclear button is bigger than Kim's? And how Trump had no qualms about unleashing the fury of the U.S. military on Afghanistan and Syria – not a ground war, but a salvo of missiles and bombs, and threats for far worse from the U.S. if necessary? Does anyone think Iran and North Korea want to call Trump's bluff?

2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people."
Trump is sticking to what he knows best – negotiating, financing, and playing hardball. He is staying far away from the nuance of the Kerry-Obama cabal, instead delivering a simple and straightforward message to his geopolitical foes. This message is easy to understand, including by the American people, who can smell John Kerry's nonsensical diplomatic-speak from a mile away.

3 "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy."
North Korea and Iran know only threats and intimidation, tactics that have kept past U.S. presidents dancing to their tune. Trump added a new tactic, something not used by past administrations, which they haven't yet had to contend with: economic strength. Trump is using U.S. economic might as a national security club, imposing sanctions and tariffs to squeeze countries opposed to his agenda. Trump took it farther, threatening to stop doing business with countries continuing to do business with North Korea or Iran. China, France, and Germany will think twice before supporting N.K. or Iran over the U.S.

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
Past administrations have promised to contain N.K. and Iran. They also conveniently, on the campaign trail, promised to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. All Trump is doing is fulfilling the promises made by others. Those howling with outrage look like fools for complaining about Trump doing what they themselves promised to do.

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon."
This is President Trump's forte. Using his Twitter account and speeches, calling out Little Rocket Man and the hypocrisy and incompetence of past administrations, he has his political opponents on their heels, playing defense. This is not presidential, according to the pinstriped suit crowd in Washington, D.C. Trump is uncouth and crude, sullying the office of the president. Yet he is getting stuff done, at a far faster rate than any of his predecessors. Willie Brown and David Brooks, liberal Democrat and swamp-dweller, respectively, have recently written about Trump's popularity and effectiveness and the dangers for Democrats in underestimating him and his appeal to voters.

6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
Just watch one of his rallies. Supporters queue up hours before, and most never even make it to the arena. Trump is funny and entertaining. Imagine either of the Presidents Bush holding a similar rally. Or a President Kerry or Gore. That would be as exciting as watching paint dry. Trump's opponents don't like his tactics because they are defenseless against them, reduced to braying about Russia or Stormy or calling for impeachment. But his supporters can't get enough of Trump calling out the media and the Deep State.

7. "Keep the pressure on. Never let up."
Trump is ticking off his promises one by one. He hasn't reversed course, even if Congress stands in his way, as in the border wall. Much of what he campaigned on is happening – Paris climate accords, Iran nuke deal, trade deals, ISIS, judicial picks, and so on.

8. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."
Trump frequently brags on his military and willingness to use it. When pulling out of the Iran nuke deal, he said, "If the regime continues its nuclear aspirations, it will have bigger problems than it has ever had before." Does Iran want to call Trump's bluff on that? By now, the world knows that Trump says what he means and means what he says.

9 "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
From Kim in North Korea to crooked Hillary, Mueller, Comey, and the Deep-Staters trying to destroy his presidency, he calls these people out. He names names and misdeeds, via tweets and impromptu remarks. The enemies of Donald Trump become the enemies of his supporters, personalized and polarized.

President Trump, knowingly or unknowingly, has co-opted Alinsky's Rules for Radicals, using them effectively to advance his agenda. How ironic that the tactics of the left are being used against the leftists themselves. The left knows the rules only for playing offense. Now that the rules are being used against it, it is at a loss as to how to react and respond. For Trump-supporters, typically being on the losing end of Alinsky's rules, it's a refreshing treat to finally be on offense, scoring touchdowns, leaving Democrats and NeverTrumps babbling and unable to stop or slow the Trump train.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I found this article horribly interesting and ironic ...

Trump Is Going Full Alinsky – and His Opponents Are Flummoxed

There you go, chugging down the right wingnut Kool-Aid again.

But interesting article. Here I thought, as has been claimed in the past by the right, that Saul Alinsky was a left wingnut devil.

[awareness]

From healthcare to tax and immigration, Rev William Barber and the Poor People’s Campaign are driven by faith to focus on the disadvantaged

As one group of faith leaders celebrates the fruits of a decades-long alliance with the Republican party, another is mounting a multi-faith challenge to the dominance of the Christian right, in an attempt to recapture the moral agenda.

“There is no religious left and religious right,” Barber, a pastor and political leader in North Carolina, told the Guardian. “There is only a moral center. And the scripture is very clear about where you have to be to be in the moral center – you have to be on the side of the poor, the working, the sick, the immigrant.”

Barber, a co-chair of the campaign, says some conservative faith leaders have “cynically” interpreted the Bible’s teachings to demonize homosexuality, abortion, scientific facts and other religions. They are guilty, he says, of “theological malpractice” and “modern-day heresy”.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...oples-campaign

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

From healthcare to tax and immigration, Rev William Barber and the Poor People’s Campaign are driven by faith to focus on the disadvantaged

As one group of faith leaders celebrates the fruits of a decades-long alliance with the Republican party, another is mounting a multi-faith challenge to the dominance of the Christian right, in an attempt to recapture the moral agenda.

“There is no religious left and religious right,” Barber, a pastor and political leader in North Carolina, told the Guardian. “There is only a moral center. And the scripture is very clear about where you have to be to be in the moral center – you have to be on the side of the poor, the working, the sick, the immigrant.”

Barber, a co-chair of the campaign, says some conservative faith leaders have “cynically” interpreted the Bible’s teachings to demonize homosexuality, abortion, scientific facts and other religions. They are guilty, he says, of “theological malpractice” and “modern-day heresy”.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...oples-campaign

Apparently there is little faith left in the British Kingdom, so their religious editors come over here to divide American Christians.

The whole premise is false, but it sure fits your narratives.

You covered five different threads with one link.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

There you go, chugging down the right wingnut Kool-Aid again.

But interesting article. Here I thought, as has been claimed in the past by the right, that Saul Alinsky was a left wingnut devil.

Why is it drinking Kool-aid to take note that Trump has merely used leftist tactics for good?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

From healthcare to tax and immigration, Rev William Barber and the Poor People’s Campaign are driven by faith to focus on the disadvantaged

As one group of faith leaders celebrates the fruits of a decades-long alliance with the Republican party, another is mounting a multi-faith challenge to the dominance of the Christian right, in an attempt to recapture the moral agenda.

“There is no religious left and religious right,” Barber, a pastor and political leader in North Carolina, told the Guardian. “There is only a moral center. And the scripture is very clear about where you have to be to be in the moral center – you have to be on the side of the poor, the working, the sick, the immigrant.”

Barber, a co-chair of the campaign, says some conservative faith leaders have “cynically” interpreted the Bible’s teachings to demonize homosexuality, abortion, scientific facts and other religions. They are guilty, he says, of “theological malpractice” and “modern-day heresy”.

So he firstly defines the moral center as taking the side of "the poor, the working, the sick, the immigrant."

We all would agree with that.

Then he pulls a bait'n'switch, condemning others as guilty for opposing homosexuality, abortion, scientific facts, other religions.

What kind of Bible is he reading? His own imagination? Using that he now condemns them as heretics performing theological malpractice.

The Guardian writer here is behaving just like Putin, whose goal is to drive wedges. He cares little for the Bible, and he is really not choosing sides, but rather pitting both sides against each other. Nearly no one recognizes this.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So he firstly defines the moral center as taking the side of "the poor, the working, the sick, the immigrant."

We all would agree with that.

Then he pulls a bait'n'switch, condemning others as guilty for opposing homosexuality, abortion, scientific facts, other religions.

What kind of Bible is he reading? His own imagination? Using that he now condemns them as heretics performing theological malpractice.

The Guardian writer here is behaving just like Putin, whose goal is to drive wedges. He cares little for the Bible, and he is really not choosing sides, but rather pitting both sides against each other. Nearly no one recognizes this.

“There is no religious left and religious right,” Barber

"There is nothing I dread So much, as a Division of the Republick into two great Parties, each arranged under its Leader, and concerting Measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble Apprehension is to be dreaded as the greatest political Evil, under our Constitution."
-John Adams October 2, 1780

[awareness]

Way cool. Obama makes conservatives read their Bibles. Maybe they'll finally learn something.

CONSERVATIVES THREATEN NETFLIX BOYCOTT OVER OBAMA DEAL: 'I WILL READ THE BIBLE INSTEAD'
http://www.newsweek.com/boycott-netf...ew-show-939417

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Way cool. Obama makes conservatives read their Bibles. Maybe they'll finally learn something.

CONSERVATIVES THREATEN NETFLIX BOYCOTT OVER OBAMA DEAL: 'I WILL READ THE BIBLE INSTEAD'
http://www.newsweek.com/boycott-netf...ew-show-939417

"Today the whole world takes Sunday not mainly for worship but for pleasures, for sports, and for all kinds of entertainment. This is more evil than idol worship" ~ W. Lee

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

“There is no religious left and religious right,” Barber

"There is nothing I dread So much, as a Division of the Republick into two great Parties, each arranged under its Leader, and concerting Measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble Apprehension is to be dreaded as the greatest political Evil, under our Constitution."
-John Adams October 2, 1780

More and more I am seeing the wisdom in a parliamentary system. One reason our elections are so expensive and out of reach for the ordinary citizen to be a candidate is that we have a 2 party system.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

More and more I am seeing the wisdom in a parliamentary system. One reason our elections are so expensive and out of reach for the ordinary citizen to be a candidate is that we have a 2 party system.

In theory yes, but in practice parliamentary systems usually revert to a two or three major party system anyway. So no real advantage there. But the interests of the citizens would be better represented, in theory. In practice, the interests of minor parties and those who voted for them are always overshadowed by the major parties unless the minor party finds itself in a situation where it holds the "balance of power". This is a rarity however and usually occurs when the country cannot decide between two or more major parties because it does not like any of them or through disillusionment. The unwanted side effect of this is that minor parties can hold more power than they should (such as the Communist Party for example). This in turn means citizens may choose to vote for a major party not because they support it but because they don't want an extreme minor party to hold any sort of control over government. So it ends up being a situation where minority parties and their supporters feel like they are being represented and heard, but they will never play a major role in government.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

In theory yes, but in practice parliamentary systems usually revert to a two or three major party system anyway. So no real advantage there. But the interests of the citizens would be better represented, in theory. In practice, the interests of minor parties and those who voted for them are always overshadowed by the major parties unless the minor party finds itself in a situation where it holds the "balance of power". This is a rarity however and usually occurs when the country cannot decide between two or more major parties because it does not like any of them or through disillusionment. The unwanted side effect of this is that minor parties can hold more power than they should (such as the Communist Party for example). This in turn means citizens may choose to vote for a major party not because they support it but because they don't want an extreme minor party to hold any sort of control over government. So it ends up being a situation where minority parties and their supporters feel like they are being represented and heard, but they will never play a major role in government.

If a state has 10 congressmen, and each election you elect 5 of them, instead of having 5 districts you do statewide election and parcel out the seats based on vote count. If you get 20% of the vote you get a seat, if you get 40% you get two seats, etc. Although there may be two prevailing parties you will see many other parties popping up in different States around local issues.

Our last presidential election has shown that many countries are getting into the act to influence the outcome and make the candidates beholden to them. A parliamentary system could avoid these billion dollar elections.

Also the process for impeachment is absurd. Theoretically you have the most powerful man in the world who must be convicted of his crimes by an incredibly political and biased group. In this country it is extremely difficult to convict powerful men with every resource to thwart the process. Add a biased judge and jury to that and it is absurd. In a Parliamentary system you don't have to wait for all that, a simple vote of no confidence is sufficient. Although you generally get two primary parties it is very unusual for either of them to have over 50% of the representatives.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Also the process for impeachment is absurd. Theoretically you have the most powerful man in the world who must be convicted of his crimes by an incredibly political and biased group. In this country it is extremely difficult to convict powerful men with every resource to thwart the process. Add a biased judge and jury to that and it is absurd. In a Parliamentary system you don't have to wait for all that, a simple vote of no confidence is sufficient. Although you generally get two primary parties it is very unusual for either of them to have over 50% of the representatives.

We discovered this all too true with the Clintonistas.

Multiple crimes spanning decades, yet they have never been brought to justice.

[zeek]

President Trump has canceled the June 12 summit meeting with Kim Jong-un after already taking a victory lap. When you elect a clown expect a circus.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

President Trump has canceled the June 12 summit meeting with Kim Jong-un after already taking a victory lap. When you elect a clown expect a circus.

Just one more lie about Trump! Proving that you never listen to him, only to what the media says about him. Why don't you sign up for Twitter?

Trump said from the very beginning that he would walk away if Kim did not act in good faith. You never heard that?

The only real victory was getting 3 American hostages released for free.

Your boy Obama gave Valerie Jarrett's Iran $150 Billion with $1.8 Billion cash and not a single hostage was ever released!

But all the dishonest people still praise Obama and hate Trump.

The best Obama could do was trade 5 Taliban generals for one deserter.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just one more lie about Trump! Proving that you never listen to him, only to what the media says about him. Why don't you sign up for Twitter?

Trump said from the very beginning that he would walk away if Kim did not act in good faith. You never heard that?

The only real victory was getting 3 American hostages released for free.

Your boy Obama gave Valerie Jarrett's Iran $150 Billion with $1.8 Billion cash and not a single hostage was ever released!

But all the dishonest people still praise Obama and hate Trump.

The best Obama could do was trade 5 Taliban generals for one deserter.

If KIM didn't act in good faith??!! Come on, once they compared the process to what we did to Libya how could they not walk away?

Yeah, let's talk to the US, let them take everything away from us and then have me shot in the street. This was 100% due to the bumbling idiot that we have for a secretary of State.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If KIM didn't act in good faith??!! Come on, once they compared the process to what we did to Libya how could they not walk away?

Yeah, let's talk to the US, let them take everything away from us and then have me shot in the street. This was 100% due to the bumbling idiot that we have for a secretary of State.

It was always a game with Kim. Too bad you don't understand how these thugs operate.

[Ohio]

Hey all you Liberal Progressives out there, here is your future.

Facebook, leading source of Millennial news, now recognizes 50 unique genders:

Agender
Androgyne
Androgynes
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis
Cis Female
Cis Male
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Cisgender
Cisgender Female
Cisgender Male
Cisgender Man
Cisgender Woman
Female to Male
FTM
Gender Fluid
Gender Nonconforming
Gender Questioning
Gender Variant
Genderqueer
Intersex
Male to Female
MTF
Neither
Neutrois
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Trans
Trans Female
Trans Male
Trans Man
Trans Person
Trans*Female
Trans*Male
Trans*Man
Trans*Person
Trans*Woman
Transexual
Transexual Female
Transexual Male
Transexual Man
Transexual Person
Transexual Woman
Transgender Female
Transgender Person
Transmasculine
Two-spirit

This is what we would all get if Trump would have lost the election.

And just in case you think things have not changed:

College student kicked out of class for telling professor there are only two genders

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hey all you Liberal Progressives out there, here is your future.

Facebook, leading source of Millennial news, now recognizes 50 unique genders:

Agender
Androgyne
Androgynes
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis
Cis Female
Cis Male
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Cisgender
Cisgender Female
Cisgender Male
Cisgender Man
Cisgender Woman
Female to Male
FTM
Gender Fluid
Gender Nonconforming
Gender Questioning
Gender Variant
Genderqueer
Intersex
Male to Female
MTF
Neither
Neutrois
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Trans
Trans Female
Trans Male
Trans Man
Trans Person
Trans*Female
Trans*Male
Trans*Man
Trans*Person
Trans*Woman
Transexual
Transexual Female
Transexual Male
Transexual Man
Transexual Person
Transexual Woman
Transgender Female
Transgender Person
Transmasculine
Two-spirit

This is what we would all get if Trump would have lost the election.

And just in case you think things have not changed:

College student kicked out of class for telling professor there are only two genders

Glad to see you're keeping up on the hyperbole lessons you received from witness Lee.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hey all you Liberal Progressives out there, here is your future.

Facebook, leading source of Millennial news, now recognizes 50 unique genders:

Agender
Androgyne
Androgynes
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis
Cis Female
Cis Male
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Cisgender
Cisgender Female
Cisgender Male
Cisgender Man
Cisgender Woman
Female to Male
FTM
Gender Fluid
Gender Nonconforming
Gender Questioning
Gender Variant
Genderqueer
Intersex
Male to Female
MTF
Neither
Neutrois
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Trans
Trans Female
Trans Male
Trans Man
Trans Person
Trans*Female
Trans*Male
Trans*Man
Trans*Person
Trans*Woman
Transexual
Transexual Female
Transexual Male
Transexual Man
Transexual Person
Transexual Woman
Transgender Female
Transgender Person
Transmasculine
Two-spirit

This is what we would all get if Trump would have lost the election.

And just in case you think things have not changed:

College student kicked out of class for telling professor there are only two genders

Thats not from liberals as such..thats from California aka Sodom. Not even communist countries are talking nonsense like that and that says a lot.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Glad to see you're keeping up on the hyperbole lessons you received from witness Lee.

I wish it were sci-fi, but we are talking about millennial snowflakes.

Can't make this stuff up folks.

Perhaps zeek is ill informed as to where his people are taking him.

[zeek]

"The advent of Donald Trump has brought to the surface and exacerbated all kinds of tensions and disagreements among different kinds of Christians who, to the casual observer, once appeared to be in agreement," says Molly Worthen, a historian of American religion at the University of North Carolina. https://www.npr.org/2018/05/25/61345...cal-priorities

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I wish it were sci-fi, but we are talking about millennial snowflakes.

Can't make this stuff up folks.

Perhaps zeek is ill informed as to where his people are taking him.

So, I take it from this you're not down with genderfluidity

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

So, I take it from this you're not down with genderfluidity

"Male and female He created them."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"Male and female He created them."

True. It doesn't mention the hermaphrodite there. The Bible is so androcentric.

It seems like you're out of touch with your feminine side, bro. Even God has a feminine side named Sophia or Chokhmah in Hebrew. You probably deny that you have one. Do you only dream of males?

[Ohio]

Here's Hillary doing comedy again at her Alma Mater ...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

True. It doesn't mention the hermaphrodite there. The Bible is so androcentric.

It seems like you're out of touch with your feminine side, bro. Even God has a feminine side named Sophia or Chokhmah in Hebrew. You probably deny that you have one. Do you only dream of males?

God has a feminine side?



Can you provide me with a 7 syllable word for deranged thinking?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

God has a feminine side?



Can you provide me with a 7 syllable word for deranged thinking?

...Ohio-oid...

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

God has a feminine side?

God forbid. God sits on a throne. He has a butt. God is our Father. He's male. So he has a pee-pee.

[awareness]

I didn't have scandals': Barack Obama takes a swipe at Donald Trump's troubled presidency while bragging about his time in office
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...president.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I didn't have scandals': Barack Obama takes a swipe at Donald Trump's troubled presidency while bragging about his time in office
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...president.html

I thought this was tongue in cheek, no?

If he is boasting about not having a Stormy Daniel's lawsuit shouldn't we hear from Michelle on this?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I thought this was tongue in cheek, no?

If he is boasting about not having a Stormy Daniel's lawsuit shouldn't we hear from Michelle on this?

Here's a couple scandals. Why did Obama once publicly call his wife "Michael?" Was that tongue-in-cheek? And why was his birth certificate a forgery?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's a couple scandals. Why did Obama once publicly call his wife "Michael?" Was that tongue-in-cheek? And why was his birth certificate a forgery?

We need to ask Michael!

[awareness]

“Trumpocalypse: The End-Times President, a Battle Against the Globalist Elite, and the Countdown to Armageddon.”

“President Trump is doing biblical things,” agreed Bakker.

“The unprecedented attacks against President Trump and his administration are something that we’ve never seen before in all of human history,” McGuire said. “These unprecedented attacks on Donald Trump are part of the greatest spiritual battle in the history of mankind.”

“There are people very high up in what is called the globalist occult or globalist Luciferian rulership system, and this rulership system consists of what used to be called the Pharaoh-God Kings,” he said. “[I]t’s what Aldous Huxley called ‘The Scientific Dictatorship,’ and these are advanced beings who know how to tap into supernatural multidimensional power and integrate it with science, technology, and economics.”
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/p...ry-of-mankind/
https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...nk-trump-under

[awareness]

Roseanne Barr is the quintessential Trump supporter.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Roseanne Barr is the quintessential Trump supporter.

As Matthew Miller tweeted " you just can't expect to say blatantly racist stuff and expect to keep your job unless you're the president of the United States."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Roseanne Barr is the quintessential Trump supporter.

A comedian?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

As Matthew Miller tweeted " you just can't expect to say blatantly racist stuff and expect to keep your job unless you're the president of the United States."

How about some proof?


But you and he don't need any because you are the knower of hearts.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

A comedian?

A clown, a buffoon. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

A clown, a buffoon. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

And to you she represents every Trump supporter?

Shall I also apply the same liberal standards to you and your ilk?

Where was your outrage when Bill Maher said Trump's mother was banana-oiled up with an orangutan?

Oh how your hatred has blinded you!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And to you she represents every Trump supporter?

Shall I also apply the same liberal standards to you and your ilk?

Where was your outrage when Bill Maher said Trump's mother was banana-oiled up with an orangutan?

Oh how your hatred has blinded you!

Nope, I don't know anything about her, never watched her show. To me, you are the prime example of a Trump supporter, I know you far better than anyone else who claims to have voted for Trump.

I also think the whole thing is hypocritical. She was obviously cast into this show because of her support for Trump and her controversial tweets. Like Muhammed Ali the best way to fill the arena is if they love you or hate you. So on one hand she needed to continue to post controversial, offensive tweets, on the other the minute she goes over the line everyone disavows her like they had no idea who she was.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Nope, I don't know anything about her, never watched her show. To me, you are the prime example of a Trump supporter, I know you far better than anyone else who claims to have voted for Trump.

I also think the whole thing is hypocritical. She was obviously cast into this show because of her support for Trump and her controversial tweets. Like Muhammed Ali the best way to fill the arena is if they love you or hate you. So on one hand she needed to continue to post controversial, offensive tweets, on the other the minute she goes over the line everyone disavows her like they had no idea who she was.

I never watched her show either. She was obviously cast in this show because some people like her, and used to watch her show years ago. I don't give a Tweet about her Twitter, so how would I know anything about her other than if she pops up in the headlines.

It's sad you have so insulated yourself from mainstream America that you don't even know another person who supports the President. Obviously surrounded by people with attitudes like yours, they probably have gone into hiding.

Your comments are telling. Besides Tim Allen, whom I did like in Home Improvement, there is not another family comedy show for conservatives to watch. Perhaps you enjoy liberal comedians who bash Trump and conservative family values on a daily basis, since the only one you ever condemned was one who supported Trump.

The only outrage you ever exhibit is of a liberal bent. Hate for Trump has blinded you friend. You have lost all objectivity for the truth.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Perhaps you enjoy liberal comedians who bash Trump and conservative family values on a daily basis, since the only one you ever condemned was one who supported Trump.

The only one I have condemned is the one who said that a woman in the Obama administration was the offspring of muslim extremists and planet of the apes. I never condemned her for supporting Trump.

Originally Posted by Ohio

The only outrage you ever exhibit is of a liberal bent. Hate for Trump has blinded you friend. You have lost all objectivity for the truth.

How is condemning this tweet "hate for Trump"? Who is the one who has lost all objectivity?

[zeek]

I read that when the Republicans passed the Trump tax they gave a 40% tax break to the big oil companies. In 2017 Exxon Mobil reported a 5.9 billion dollar tax benefit while Chevrolet Chevron and Valero reported $2 billion and $1.9 billion respectively. But did they pass those savings on to consumers in the form of lower gas prices? No, instead they announced record stock buybacks and passed billions in profits on to the shareholders thanks to the rising cost of fuel and their Trump tax windfall. As usual working class Americans including the ones that voted for Trump and Republicans are the ones that are paying the price.

[zeek]

"Corruption Currents: Ivanka Trump Receives Trademarks Days Before ZTE Move. President Donald Trump‘s move to help ZTE Corp. came days after China approved trademarks for his daughter’s business. The U.S. had reached a deal to keep ZTE in business, the White House said late last week." https://blogs.wsj.com/riskandcomplia...fore-zte-move/

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Corruption Currents: Ivanka Trump Receives Trademarks Days Before ZTE Move. President Donald Trump‘s move to help ZTE Corp. came days after China approved trademarks for his daughter’s business. The U.S. had reached a deal to keep ZTE in business, the White House said late last week." https://blogs.wsj.com/riskandcomplia...fore-zte-move/

Now you know why he wanted to "drain the swamp" they were giving his sons and daughter too much competition.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The only one I have condemned is the one who said that a woman in the Obama administration was the offspring of muslim extremists and planet of the apes. I never condemned her for supporting Trump.
How is condemning this tweet "hate for Trump"? Who is the one who has lost all objectivity?

That is exactly my point.

Why no condemnation for the comedian who said Trump was the offspring of an Orangutan?

#AnotherLiberalBlindedByHate

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That is exactly my point.

Why no condemnation for the comedian who said Trump was the offspring of an Orangutan?

#AnotherLiberalBlindedByHate

Who said that? I am not aware of everything said by every person. Nor do I critique every comedy act doing stand up.

But when you are #1 in the ratings your tweets will get more attention.

You have also neglected the rest of my posts where I put as much blame on ABC as on Roseanne. They gave her this spot because of her tweets and how close she was "flying to the sun". I would not at all put it past ABC for manufacturing this, hiring her with the intention of firing her over an especially egregious tweet (i.e. no publicity is bad publicity). If that were so it would explain the extreme rapidity with which they acted.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That is exactly my point.

Why no condemnation for the comedian who said Trump was the offspring of an Orangutan?

#AnotherLiberalBlindedByHate

Bill Maher. And he was sued by Trump for $5 million. The court rejected it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bill Maher. And he was sued by Trump for $5 million. The court rejected it.

That's a twisting of the facts, and you know it.

Maher promised $5 million if Trump could prove he was not born of an orangutan. When he produced his birth certificate, Maher said it was a joke, but Trump said keep your word, I want the money, and I will give it to a charity.

Compared to Roseanne's one stupid twitter comment, Maher was 1000x worse. He mocked Trump's mom slathering herself in banana oil and sneaking into the Brooklyn Zoo. (2:10 thru 2:50 min)

Nothing happened to Maher. He was a leftist celebrity entertainer.

Why didn't Roseanne receive the same treatment for her ape comment? Should not the rules be applied fairly? One set of rules for liberals, and another for conservatives? This is the point!

And of course, millions of "decent" liberals like you and ZNP claimed ignorance about the incident.

It's no different than exonerating Hillary ahead of time for mishandling classified documents (multiple felony crimes) and Muller demanding Trump to answer questions about "collusion" which is not even a crime and for which there is no evidence to date.

#DoubleStandard

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bill Maher. And he was sued by Trump for $5 million. The court rejected it.

Have I ever once quoted Bill Maher on this forum? On what basis do you blame me for not condemning something I had no knowledge of?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Have I ever once quoted Bill Maher on this forum? On what basis do you blame me for not condemning something I had no knowledge of?

You were assumed innocent until you condemned conservatives for doing a fraction of their liberal counterparts.

You don't get to have it both ways.

I only ask for fairness. Hold everyone to the same standard. Is that not the very definition of justice?

Have not we practiced the same with LSM? Holding their leaders to the same standards as the rest of the body of Christ.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And of course, millions of "decent" liberals like you and ZNP claimed ignorance about the incident.

One minute you accuse me of listening to left wing comics, the next you blame me for not listening. You can't have it both ways.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You were assumed innocent until you condemned conservatives for doing a fraction of their liberal counterparts.

You don't get to have it both ways.

I only ask for fairness. Hold everyone to the same standard. Is that not the very definition of justice?

Have not we practiced the same with LSM? Holding their leaders to the same standards as the rest of the body of Christ.

It may be that Roseanne did was equivalent to what Bill Maher did, I don't know enough, and if that were true I would condemn him as well. I would not call for him to be fired, and I did not call for her to be fired. I simply said she was a buffoon that "flew too close to the sun". I would say the same of Bill Maher if your quote is a fair representation of what he said.

This is the danger in being a comic and it happens to all of them. We had several well known NYC radio show hosts get fired for doing stupid stuff (that was funny) while on the radio.

Here is another comic that I don't listen to: Samantha Bee on Thursday after the comedian called first daughter Ivanka Trump a “feckless c–t.” Sanders also called on Bee’s bosses at Time Warner and TBS to take action. I think conservatives should welcome what happened to Roseanne, no doubt there will be twice as many liberal comics fired than conservative ones based on this standard.

I also am amused that no one spots the hypocrisy in all this. The people who are outraged that this woman likened someone to being born from "planet of the apes" are the same ones who mock Christians for saying we are not descended from the apes.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It may be that Roseanne did was equivalent to what Bill Maher did, I don't know enough, and if that were true I would condemn him as well.

Compare the two, watching that video, and then tell me they were "equivalent." You are equating involuntary manslaughter with one of these horrific school shootings.

Rosanne's was a single stupid joke tweet of Jarrett.

Maher featured his entire show around Trump the Orangutan.

Roseanne apologized for the joke and got fired. Maher used it to create hundreds more jokes. No comparison, except if you hate Trump, as you seem to.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I also am amused that no one spots the hypocrisy in all this. The people who are outraged that this woman likened someone to being born from "planet of the apes" are the same ones who mock Christians for saying we are not descended from the apes.

I also have enjoyed this ironic side of the story.

Like I said, my point is fairness, justice, impartiality, decency. Both in the church, in politics, and in comedy.

I could never side with the left simply because of their lack of decency and fairness.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Compare the two, watching that video, and then tell me they were "equivalent." You are equating involuntary manslaughter with one of these horrific school shootings.

Rosanne's was a single stupid joke tweet of Jarrett.

Maher featured his entire show around Trump the Orangutan.

Roseanne apologized for the joke and got fired. Maher used it to create hundreds more jokes. No comparison, except if you hate Trump, as you seem to.

If this is true then there should be outrage by the millions and millions who support Trump along with a boycott of Maher's sponsors and a push to get him fired. I have no issue with that. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I also have enjoyed this ironic side of the story.

Like I said, my point is fairness, justice, impartiality, decency. Both in the church, in politics, and in comedy.

I could never side with the left simply because of their lack of decency and fairness.

I don't know anything about the woman that Roseanne was making fun of or why she was, but if that woman has a very vocal stance in which she insults Christians for being anti science and denying evolution, then it would have been better if instead of blaming ambien she had just pointed out that she was responding to that. If that were the case she would get a ground swell of fundamental Christian support.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't know anything about the woman that Roseanne was making fun of or why she was, but if that woman has a very vocal stance in which she insults Christians for being anti science and denying evolution, then it would have been better if instead of blaming ambien she had just pointed out that she was responding to that. If that were the case she would get a ground swell of fundamental Christian support.

You don't know who Valerie Jarrett is???

She was basically our co-President for 8 years as the most senior White House advisor. She was Iranian -- explains the horrible Iranian Nuclear deal. Her parents were active in the Communist party. She was an insider to rotten Chicago politics run by the Daily's.

But the Media kept this from you? And you trust them?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You don't know who Valerie Jarrett is???

She was basically our co-President for 8 years as the most senior White House advisor. She was Iranian -- explains the horrible Iranian Nuclear deal. Her parents were active in the Communist party. She was an insider to rotten Chicago politics run by the Daily's.

But the Media kept this from you? And you trust them?

So you say she is the one responsible for the Iranian deal which is rotten. That is a valid complaint.

The fact that she was Iranian or that her parents are communist, those are not valid complaints. Likewise calling her the "co president" for 8 years simply loses credibility. If you had not colored your comments with these comments it would have appeared to be a more legitimate complaint.

Likewise the racist tweet from Roseanne does not bring up any legitimate complaints but merely comes across as bigoted.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The fact that she was Iranian or that her parents are communist, those are not valid complaints. Likewise calling her the "co president" for 8 years simply loses credibility. If you had not colored your comments with these comments it would have appeared to be a more legitimate complaint.

ZNP, just because you are totally naive to my comments, does not make them less true. Perhaps you should include a few outlets like these on your reading list ...

Valerie Jarrett The Obama Whisperer

Even at this late date in the Obama presidency, there is no surer way to elicit paranoid whispers or armchair psychoanalysis from Democrats than to mention the name Valerie Jarrett. Party operatives, administration officials -- they are shocked by her sheer longevity and marvel at her influence. When I asked a longtime source who left the Obama White House years ago for his impressions of Jarrett, he confessed that he was too fearful to speak with me, even off the record.

This is not as irrational as it sounds. Obama has said he consults Jarrett on every major decision, something current and former aides corroborate. “Her role since she has been at the White House is one of the broadest and most expansive roles that I think has ever existed in the West Wing,” says Anita Dunn, Obama’s former communications director. Broader, even, than the role of running the West Wing. This summer, the call to send Attorney General Eric Holder on a risky visit to Ferguson, Missouri, was made by exactly three people: Holder himself, the president, and Jarrett, who were vacationing together on Martha’s Vineyard. When I asked Holder if Denis McDonough, the chief of staff, was part of the conversation, he thought for a moment and said, “He was not there.” (Holder hastened to add that “someone had spoken to him.”

Jarrett holds a key vote on Cabinet picks (she opposed Larry Summers at Treasury and was among the first Obama aides to come around on Hillary Clinton at State) and has an outsize say on ambassadorships and judgeships. She helps determine who gets invited to the First Lady’s Box for the State of the Union, who attends state dinners and bill-signing ceremonies, and who sits where at any of the above. She has placed friends and former employees in important positions across the administration -- “you can be my person over there,” is a common refrain.

And Jarrett has been known to enjoy the perks of high office herself. When administration aides plan “bilats,” the term of art for meetings of two countries’ top officials, they realize that whatever size meeting they negotiate -- nine by nine, eight by eight, etc. -- our side will typically include one less foreign policy hand, because Jarrett has a standing seat at any table that includes the president.

Not surprisingly, all this influence has won Jarrett legions of detractors. They complain that she has too much control over who sees the president. That she skews his decision-making with her after-hours visits. That she is an incorrigible yes-woman. That she has, in effect, become the chief architect of his very prominent and occasionally suffocating bubble.

Valerie Jarrett was our First Female President

Valerie Jarrett Gave Benghazi Stand-Down Order

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ZNP, just because you are totally naive to my comments, does not make them less true. Perhaps you should include a few outlets like these on your reading list ...

Everything you have given supports calling her "his closest confidant" or "most influential advisor". The only valid evidence that she was "co president" would be her name as a co signatory with President Obama on legislation.

If you called her the most influential advisor that would be supported by this and other statements, but calling her "our first female president" is clearly biased.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you called her the most influential advisor that would be supported by this and other statements, but calling her "our first female president" is clearly biased.

It makes him sound like another quintessential Trump supporter.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Everything you have given supports calling her "his closest confidant" or "most influential advisor". The only valid evidence that she was "co president" would be her name as a co signatory with President Obama on legislation.

If you called her the most influential advisor that would be supported by this and other statements, but calling her "our first female president" is clearly biased.

Obama still lives with the woman Jarrett -- even after 8 years in the White House!

Show me one "closest confidant" or "most influential advisor" in Presidential history who has done that?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

It makes him sound like another quintessential Trump supporter.

Are you trolling again?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are you trolling again?

Who's trolling who?

[Evangelical]

Roseanne who and why did she marry Fred Flintstone?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Roseanne who and why did she marry Fred Flintstone?

Barr. You're confusing her with Wilma.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Roseanne who and why did she marry Fred Flintstone?

You are getting your TV stars confused.

[awareness]

His father was a gospel preacher. And while Franklin rides his father's financial gravy train, he's preaching politics:

Ohio will really really like this:

“Progressive? That’s just another word for godless," Graham told a group of supporters

in 2016, only 13 percent of California voters were white born-again Christians, compared to 26 percent nationwide.
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-wa...-in-california

[ZNPaaneah]

U.S.
A retired judge determined that almost none of the first batch of documents obtained from Trump lawyer Michael Cohen are privileged.

[zeek]

For nearly a year Trump his lawyers and his spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders have been denying that Trump dictated a misleading statement in his son's name regarding a meeting in the Trump Tower with the Russians.

Sarah Huckabee Sanders said he didn't dictate the statement in a press conference. Today Sanders wouldn't respond to questions about it.

Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow told NBC news that the president was not involved in drafting that statement. He insisted that Donald Trump Jr wrote the statement when he was interviewed on CNN. Now in a confidential hand-delivered memo to the special counsel, the Trump lawyers admit that Donald Trump Senior did dictate the statement.

Trump said in the past he was eager to sit for an interview with Robert Mueller. Now he's waffling on that and holding up the investigation. If he wants it over he should sit down and tell the truth but I don't think he knows how.

[zeek]

Trump tweeted yesterday that he has an absolute right to pardon himself from any crime. "As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to pardon myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong? In the meantime The neverending witch-hunt, led by 13 very angry and conflicted Democrats and others continues into the midterms!"

Back when Richard Nixon tried to obstruct justice the then acting Assistant Attorney General Mary C Lawton addressed the question of whether the POTUS can pardon himself in a memo. She concluded that it violates the basic notion that no one can serve as their own judge. Nixon resigned four days later.

This is Trump's latest attempt to usurp the rule of law. He's claiming to be above the law like King George of England. That's why the colonies signed the Declaration of Independence and enshrined the rule of law in the Constitution. This guy Trump is a would-be tyrant and he must be stopped.

[awareness]

Liberty University Cinema Dept. Producing Feature Film 'The Trump Prophecy'
https://www.christianpost.com/news/l...ophecy-224312/