Greetings from a young person currently in the LC

[theLCfurry]

Hello,
I've recently signed up on this forum after periodically looking at threads in incognito for a period of time. I'm currently a young person in the church life, but I've been reconsidering my beliefs for a while now. I dont wanna talk about everything, but I'll reveal a little bit

In the past, I was a little bit skeptical about the church, but I talked with a brother in SSOT about this issue, and after that conversation, I dismissed my thoughts.

Sorry if my opinion sounds harsh, by the way, but it does get harsh at this point in the post (warning you ahead of time). Feel free to correct me if any of my opinions are incorrect

However, I started to get concerned about two years ago in the wintertime when I was learning about cults such as Jehovah's Witnesses. I learned about some dark things about them, and while during that time, I started to have doubts about the church and kind of related the church to some of their problems some former believers had from Jehovah's Witnesses. I started looking up articles about what is a cult, and after reading some of them, it heightened my suspicions about the LC itself, as well as browsing some threads on this website. I then told a teacher about my concerns (which I mishandled), and my parents found out about my suspicions and "accusations". I was so embarrassed back then that I decided not to have doubts about the church.

However, this year, I started having doubts again, and I went back into this forum to read some interesting threads periodically. It wasn't until this past month that I've been browsing on this forum regularly, and a week or so ago, I found out about Jo's open letter to the saints along with other info on this website that crashed my world. I never knew that there would be this many problems in the LC, and I have lost a lot of faith in the LC, specifically LSM and brother Lee. Now I'm reconsidering if I want to be a believer or if I want to leave this LC entirely for good.

Whelp, theres a part of my recent bio. Thanks for being open to new members like me .

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by BJS03

However, this year, I started having doubts again, and I went back into this forum to read some interesting threads periodically. It wasn't until this past month that I've been browsing on this forum regularly, and a week or so ago, I found out about Jo's open letter to the saints along with other info on this website that crashed my world. I never knew that there would be this many problems in the LC, and I have lost a lot of faith in the LC, specifically LSM and brother Lee. Now I'm reconsidering if I want to be a believer or if I want to leave this LC entirely for good.

Whelp, theres a part of my recent bio. Thanks for being open to new members like me .

Welcome to the forum and thank you for being so honest and open.

First thing that really hit me from your post was "I have lost a lot of faith in the LC". Why would you have faith in the LC? Is that a thing? I have faith in God, in the Lord Jesus Christ, in prayer, in the word, but not in the LC.

I would strongly encourage you to cut the cord between being a believer with "faith in the LC". The Lord told us to beware of false prophets. Why would he say that if there wasn't a real threat? Guard your heart. My faith in the Lord is not dependent on WL, I had faith in the Lord prior to ever hearing about him, he had nothing to do with my faith or my walk.

[Raptor]

Hi, I encourage you not to lose your faith in the Lord Jesus because of any person, church, movement, group, teaching, circumstances, etc. We all have had different experiences in the LC. For me, after 34 years, I can finally see that it is a big mixture, with good and bad, but for me the foundation of the Recovery has lots of the bad, so I am not meeting anymore. Each one of us has to make choices.

But I encourage you not to throw out the baby with the bath water. Especially not throwing out the common faith, that is, what we believe in as christians: the Bible is the word of God, there is only one God, He is Father, Son and Spirit, God became a Man in Jesus Christ and died for our sins and was raised on the third day, and ascended to the right hand of God. When you believed in Him, He forgave your sins and you were born of God having eternal life. One day Christ will come back.

I encourage you to take it easy and little by little just read the Bible, no commentaries, no footnotes, nada. Just go before the Lord, into His presence, confess any sins and read the Word in His light. Ask Him to guide you, ask Him what the verses mean. You don´t have to start with anything heavy like Numbers or Hebrews.... jajaja. Maybe start with the gospels....even ask Him which book to read.

He will not let anything separate you from His love.....so I encourage you to do the same.

Romans 8:38,39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Raptor

But I encourage you not to throw out the baby with the bath water. Especially not throwing out the common faith, that is, what we believe in as Christians: the Bible is the word of God, there is only one God, He is Father, Son and Spirit, God became a Man in Jesus Christ and died for our sins and was raised on the third day, and ascended to the right hand of God. When you believed in Him, He forgave your sins and you were born of God having eternal life. One day Christ will come back.

I encourage you to take it easy and little by little just read the Bible, no commentaries, no footnotes, nada. Just go before the Lord, into His presence, confess any sins and read the Word in His light. Ask Him to guide you, ask Him what the verses mean. You don´t have to start with anything heavy like Numbers or Hebrews.... jajaja. Maybe start with the gospels....even ask Him which book to read.

Probably the best advise ever given on this forum! The only thing I would add is that you need not worry about throwing out the baby...THE BABY IS THE WORD OF GOD AND THE "COMMON FAITH" as Raptor has described above. EVERYTHING ELSE is under suspicion as being the bathwater. We were NOT "left as orphans" - God has provided us with his Word and with his Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is not only "the life-giving Spirit", He is the "Spirit of Truth" who is here to "guide us into all truth".

Take care and take heart BJ! The Lord is with you. Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. Greater is He that died on the cross and rose again and stands as our great Advocate before the Father. Greater is He that boldly proclaimed "I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH!". Greater is He that proclaimed "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me!" Greater is He because it is written: "Let God be true, but every man a liar".
-

[Nell]

Originally Posted by BJS03

Hello,
I've recently signed up on this forum after periodically looking at threads in incognito for a period of time. I'm currently a young person in the church life, but I've been reconsidering my beliefs for a while now. I dont wanna talk about everything, but I'll reveal a little bit

In the past, I was a little bit skeptical about the church, but I talked with a brother in SSOT about this issue, and after that conversation, I dismissed my thoughts.

Sorry if my opinion sounds harsh, by the way, but it does get harsh at this point in the post (warning you ahead of time). Feel free to correct me if any of my opinions are incorrect

However, I started to get concerned about two years ago in the wintertime when I was learning about cults such as Jehovah's Witnesses. I learned about some dark things about them, and while during that time, I started to have doubts about the church and kind of related the church to some of their problems some former believers had from Jehovah's Witnesses. I started looking up articles about what is a cult, and after reading some of them, it heightened my suspicions about the LC itself, as well as browsing some threads on this website. I then told a teacher about my concerns (which I mishandled), and my parents found out about my suspicions and "accusations". I was so embarrassed back then that I decided not to have doubts about the church.

However, this year, I started having doubts again, and I went back into this forum to read some interesting threads periodically. It wasn't until this past month that I've been browsing on this forum regularly, and a week or so ago, I found out about Jo's open letter to the saints along with other info on this website that crashed my world. I never knew that there would be this many problems in the LC, and I have lost a lot of faith in the LC, specifically LSM and brother Lee. Now I'm reconsidering if I want to be a believer or if I want to leave this LC entirely for good.

Whelp, theres a part of my recent bio. Thanks for being open to new members like me .

BJ,

You decided not to have doubts? How’s that working out for you? It looks like you’re having recurring doubts about WL and the LC. I think the Lord is trying to get your attention!!!

You’re a believer! You freely gave yourself to the Lord already, so that deal is done. It would be terrible to walk away from the Lord when the LC and WL are what/who you have problems with...nothing to do with God Himself. So your problem is not with Him. Your problem is with some man-made thing claiming to be the be-all-end-all of the Christian life. Again, the Lord is trying to get your attention! Losing faith in the LC is a good thing. Sometimes the Lord will crash our world so we can start over with a clean slate...with Him. How to start over?

“Just read the Bible” is really good advice. I would add, just read the Bible like it’s a book! No expectations, no pray-reading, no nothin’. Just read it, and definitely not the Recovery Version. I like the NET bible, but there are many others out there. The Bible Gateway website is a good place to try out other versions.

Welcome to the forum!

Nell

[awareness]

BJS03, I encourage you to follow your heart and mind. And to question everything.

[UntoHim]

awareness means well, but keep in mind that he has not only thrown out the baby, with bathwater, he has thrown out the whole bathroom...heck he has thrown out the whole darn house (and now working on the whole city block as we speak) The apostle Paul calls this being "shipwrecked as to the faith". (1 Timothy 1:19) He is certainly not the last who has voluntarily run himself aground, and he certainly wont' be the last, but I love him and respect him nonetheless. So all I'm trying to tell you here is take his advise with a grain of salt the size of a dump truck.
-

[Hannah]

Welcome!

Your questions and your doubts are good! I am sure it doesnt feel good, perhaps even scary. But if we don't question we dont grow. So much of the LC is about performance and doing, most thought has been removed. They have made it quite simple. But it can become void of substance. The LC would have you think that doubt is an indication of poor faith. It's an opportunity to figure out what is true for you. If we arent in a constant wrestling, seeking, or searching with God then are we in a relationship, has our faith grown stale?
Keep questioning and searching for what is true for you right now.

I also agree read a Bible without commentary and read a different version. Have you tried the Message?

Also, talk to God much like you would a close friend.

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by Nell

BJ,

You decided not to have doubts? How’s that working out for you? It looks like you’re having recurring doubts about WL and the LC. I think the Lord is trying to get your attention!!!

You’re a believer! You freely gave yourself to the Lord already, so that deal is done. It would be terrible to walk away from the Lord when the LC and WL are what/who you have problems with...nothing to do with God Himself. So your problem is not with Him. Your problem is with some man-made thing claiming to be the be-all-end-all of the Christian life. Again, the Lord is trying to get your attention! Losing faith in the LC is a good thing. Sometimes the Lord will crash our world so we can start over with a clean slate...with Him. How to start over?

“Just read the Bible” is really good advice. I would add, just read the Bible like it’s a book! No expectations, no pray-reading, no nothin’. Just read it, and definitely not the Recovery Version. I like the NET bible, but there are many others out there. The Bible Gateway website is a good place to try out other versions.

Welcome to the forum!

Nell

Nell is absolutely correct. The Lord will sometimes "crash our world so we can start over with a clean slate." I see that you talked to a teacher at SSOT, your parents found out, and you were embarassed. Are your parents in the LC?
In my experience as a serving one there are certain expectations. I don't reallly know how to explain it,. Hmmm...The serving one is only going to lead you to the meetings, ministry and the brothers for 'fellowship' where you'll get more brainwashing and 'encouraged' not to read anything from the internet (such as this forum) The leading ones will teach that it is 'toxic waste' and you need to where a 'toxic waste suit' to read anything 'against the ministry.'

You said that you are considering if you want to be a belilever or leave the LC for good. Being a believer has nothing to do with being in the LC. I believe someone else stated that.

I believe that this is mercy from the Lord. He is opening a door for you. My heart wants to say, "RUN through that door and never look back!" but even I am still afraid to cut the ties completely.

May the Lord give you wisdom and help you decide how to continue on your Christian walk.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I believe that this is mercy from the Lord. He is opening a door for you. My heart wants to say, "RUN through that door and never look back!" but even I am still afraid to cut the ties completely.

May the Lord give you wisdom and help you decide how to continue on your Christian walk.

No need to cut ties. After I left, I would visit about once a month just to see the saints. I broke bread with them, but often slipped out afterwards before the second half of the meeting.

Sometimes out of fear and loyalty they will cut ties with you, but don't fall for it. Often over time the "cut ties" will get re-tied.

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No need to cut ties. After I left, I would visit about once a month just to see the saints. I broke bread with them, but often slipped out afterwards before the second half of the meeting.

Sometimes out of fear and loyalty they will cut ties with you, but don't fall for it. Often over time the "cut ties" will get re-tied.

You're right, Ohio. I think sometimes that I need to cut ties in order not to get sucked back in. For me, when I go to the siter's meetings I start to get myself confused again and I feel guilty for not going to the Lord's Table or reading the Life-Studies and all that. I retract my statement. I don't want anyone to feel that they have to abandon the saints. Where I'm at there is a lot of subtle control using guilt and fear. I'm prone to buy into it as I'm a people-pleaser by nature. I'm thankful for those who can separate the wheat from the chaff and remain.

[theLCfurry]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Nell is absolutely correct. The Lord will sometimes "crash our world so we can start over with a clean slate." I see that you talked to a teacher at SSOT, your parents found out, and you were embarassed. Are your parents in the LC?
In my experience as a serving one there are certain expectations. I don't reallly know how to explain it,. Hmmm...The serving one is only going to lead you to the meetings, ministry and the brothers for 'fellowship' where you'll get more brainwashing and 'encouraged' not to read anything from the internet (such as this forum) The leading ones will teach that it is 'toxic waste' and you need to where a 'toxic waste suit' to read anything 'against the ministry.'

You said that you are considering if you want to be a belilever or leave the LC for good. Being a believer has nothing to do with being in the LC. I believe someone else stated that.

I believe that this is mercy from the Lord. He is opening a door for you. My heart wants to say, "RUN through that door and never look back!" but even I am still afraid to cut the ties completely.

May the Lord give you wisdom and help you decide how to continue on your Christian walk.

Basically yes my parents are part of the LC. However, they found out about my doubts through my sister and school (whose school counselor told her when I told my health teacher about my doubts about the LC), not the SSOT teacher

About that toxic waste thing, one of the SSOT teachers (while he was addressing my doubts a year before the school incident mentioned above) basically said that the people who left the church are bad

[theLCfurry]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Welcome to the forum and thank you for being so honest and open.

First thing that really hit me from your post was "I have lost a lot of faith in the LC". Why would you have faith in the LC? Is that a thing? I have faith in God, in the Lord Jesus Christ, in prayer, in the word, but not in the LC.

I would strongly encourage you to cut the cord between being a believer with "faith in the LC". The Lord told us to beware of false prophets. Why would he say that if there wasn't a real threat? Guard your heart. My faith in the Lord is not dependent on WL, I had faith in the Lord prior to ever hearing about him, he had nothing to do with my faith or my walk.

Well basically I thought before back then that the LSM was a good organization and that the leaders were awesome, but basically after finding about the pedophile DayStar and Phillip Lee scandals I lost my respect for them. That's what I meant by faith in the LC

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by BJS03

Well basically I thought before back then that the LSM was a good organization and that the leaders were awesome, but basically after finding about the pedophile DayStar and Phillip Lee scandals I lost my respect for them. That's what I meant by faith in the LC

How well do you know LSM and the leaders? I knew them quite well -- BP, RG, KR, and EM. I served in LSM for a number of years. I was in Houston when they started printing for LSM, I was in Irving when we built LSM center, I was in the FTTT. There were many wonderful saints whose service was unto the Lord. That said it has forced me to reassess a number of very difficult verses. The Lord's word to Sardis about the possibility of a believers name being blotted out of the book of life for one. Think about it, what is the worst sin that WL and LSM committed, they tried to blot certain saints out of the kingdom. The Lord said "with what judgement you judge you shall be judged". Sardis is the last gasp of the church before it becomes Laodicea.

I think Ohio mentioned my talk with EM. When I was in Houston EM gave me his old car to use. I felt I had a debt to him and going to him and speaking the truth about this, that to my opinion, was the repayment of that debt. He appeared remorseful, he explained that he did what he did to please WL, he was a young brother just appointed as an elder, had a family to consider. At that point I felt he might actually repent. And then he asked for the envelope the letter I gave him came in. That is when I knew there was no repentance. He thought the envelope might lead him to some saint in the LC they could discipline.

[theLCfurry]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

How well do you know LSM and the leaders? I knew them quite well -- BP, RG, KR, and EM. I served in LSM for a number of years. I was in Houston when they started printing for LSM, I was in Irving when we built LSM center, I was in the FTTT. There were many wonderful saints whose service was unto the Lord. That said it has forced me to reassess a number of very difficult verses. The Lord's word to Sardis about the possibility of a believers name being blotted out of the book of life for one. Think about it, what is the worst sin that WL and LSM committed, they tried to blot certain saints out of the kingdom. The Lord said "with what judgement you judge you shall be judged". Sardis is the last gasp of the church before it becomes Laodicea.

I think Ohio mentioned my talk with EM. When I was in Houston EM gave me his old car to use. I felt I had a debt to him and going to him and speaking the truth about this, that to my opinion, was the repayment of that debt. He appeared remorseful, he explained that he did what he did to please WL, he was a young brother just appointed as an elder, had a family to consider. At that point I felt he might actually repent. And then he asked for the envelope the letter I gave him came in. That is when I knew there was no repentance. He thought the envelope might lead him to some saint in the LC they could discipline.

Actually, I dont know the leaders Maybe RK because he was speaking in some of the conference messages, but I definitely do not know any of them at all personally. Also if I was ignorant sorry about that. I still dont know about many things about the LC and LSM in general, so I have to do a lot more research on them.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Hannah

Welcome!

Your questions and your doubts are good! I am sure it doesnt feel good, perhaps even scary. But if we don't question we dont grow. So much of the LC is about performance and doing, most thought has been removed. They have made it quite simple. But it can become void of substance. The LC would have you think that doubt is an indication of poor faith. It's an opportunity to figure out what is true for you. If we arent in a constant wrestling, seeking, or searching with God then are we in a relationship, has our faith grown stale?
Keep questioning and searching for what is true for you right now.

I also agree read a Bible without commentary and read a different version. Have you tried the Message?

Also, talk to God much like you would a close friend.

I would second this! Take a long walk and talk to Him openly and honestly. And don't withold any questions, just put it to Him. He is faithful to answer. The more real you are with Him the better. The times I was most deparate and most open with Him are the times He's answered the strongest and quickest! But, regardless of your zeal when asking, He will eventually answer you - take that to the bank!

And one thing very important about being a believer: When we accept Christ, he really does come to live in us. "Christ in you, the hope of glory." "Or do you not recognize regarding yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you--unless, indeed, you fail the test!" (Colossians 1:27 & 2 Corinthians 13:5) By His life in us, scripture tells us we are now the many sons of God, because we have the Spirit of Christ living in us!

So someone after accepting Christ into them may decide to turn their back on God, but this in no way means this one is still not a son. One day I may decide I'm not going to be recognized as a man anymore, but rather as a tree. I convince myself and tell everyone around me that I'm a tree now. This sounds silly and it is, but the point is I'll never be a tree. Why? I have the human life and not the tree life. I can try and delude myself into thinking I'm not a man, just the same as thinking I haven't been reborn with the life of Christ in me . . . My experience is He just loves me no matter what I think, and He just waits for me to come back to Him. And He's never far away - He's right inside of me!

[aron]

Originally Posted by BJS03

It wasn't until this past month that I've been browsing on this forum regularly, and a week or so ago, I found out about Jo's open letter to the saints along with other info on this website that crashed my world.

I never knew that there would be this many problems in the LC, and I have lost a lot of faith in the LC, specifically LSM and brother Lee. Now I'm reconsidering if I want to be a believer or if I want to leave this LC entirely for good.

I've read a lot of posts on this forum that sound like this. Growing up sheltered, not taught how to think critically, fed a sanitized version of events, then when other experiences and perspectives come in, there's no place to put them, and the world-view "crashes" as succinctly put above by BJS03.

While with the FTTA, I heard them tell us, "Don't waste your time" with the old, the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, those who cannot repay you in this age. No, rather go get "good building materials", i.e. college students.

Now they're seeing all those good building materials walk out the door.